PFF showing blame on Josh for QB pressures

[Turf]

Pretty interesting stuff. He was responsible for 2 of the 4 pressures by not taking the open guy quickly. If this is true he needs some growing up to do and develop the short passing game and eating clock.

https://twitter.com/Cover1/status/1695072981536358558

[Woodman]

Nervous feet ..... who is our QB coach?

Do we need a new one?

[Typ0]

He's big play aggressive and fails to make the choices that will break down a defense in the long haul. The coaches can't get it addressed.

[Woodman]

He's big play aggressive and fails to make the choices that will break down a defense in the long haul. The coaches can't get it addressed.

For longevity and Championship it'll be required.

:gobills:

[Joe Fo Sho]

Josh panics far too quickly a lot of the time, but I can't blame him with the garbage we've had to protect him over the years.

[Woodman]

He must adapt and we must always be working to improve the OL and it's quality of depth.

[Turf]

Quick short routes can make an OL look awful good and frustrate the pass rushers. Dorsey has to straighten him out on this and develop some quicker plays.

[Forward_Lateral]

I put as much stock into preseason film as I do into Kmart

[Goobylal]

With Kincaid and Isabella (likely) being on the team, he'll look to the short pass more often.

[DraftBoy]

With Kincaid and Isabella (likely) being on the team, he'll look to the short pass more often.

That doesn’t make any sense. This logic would require that we never had a guy who ran shorter routes before on the team which just isn’t close to true.

[Woodman]

With Kincaid and Isabella (likely) being on the team, he'll look to the short pass more often.

It looks like it's in the cards.

:gobills:

[Woodman]

That doesn’t make any sense. This logic would require that we never had a guy who ran shorter routes before on the team which just isn’t close to true.


When Beasley left Josh struggled.
McKenzie failed in this area and the primary reason he's gone.
Beasley gave Josh a certain level of comfort ..... these two can do much the same and much more.

[Turf]

When Beasley left Josh struggled.
McKenzie failed in this area and the primary reason he's gone.
Beasley gave Josh a certain level of comfort ..... these two can do much the same and much more.

I agree. But I would argue rather than having 1 player as his comfort level, they should scheme to create a comfort level. It's both on Dorsey and Josh, not the WRs.

[YardRat]

Being smarter is the step forward he was supposed to take last year. We've heard...yet again...how focused he is, how he's going to take what the defense gives him, and he's going to start limiting the hero ball. And yet his play last week contradicts all three.

He needs to get his **** together right now.

[sahlensguy]

Josh is on an island. Having a defensive minded hc and a young, unproven OC can do that to a player that wasn't recruited in college. He needs a mentor and time is running out.

[ParanoidAndroid]

That doesn’t make any sense. This logic would require that we never had a guy who ran shorter routes before on the team which just isn’t close to true.
The 2 high safeties have confounded Josh.

Who faced 2 high safety defenses the most last year? Buffalo

How do offenses effectively counter the 2 high safties? 12 personnel

Who ran 12 personnel the least last year? Buffalo

Who drafted Dalton Kincaid and added a power running element to be effective in 12 personnel? You guessed it.



Enter Kinkaid and the 12 personnel.

[YardRat]

Josh is on an island. Having a defensive minded hc and a young, unproven OC can do that to a player that wasn't recruited in college. He needs a mentor and time is running out.
This is year 6 and his second contract...he should be the mentor by now.

[Woodman]

Joe Brady joined the Buffalo Bills in 2022 as the team's quarterbacks coach. Prior to arriving in Buffalo, Brady spent two seasons (2020-21) as the Carolina Panthers' <g-bubble jscontroller="QVaUhf" data-ci="" data-du="200" data-tp="5" jsaction="R9S7w:VqIRre;" jsshadow="">offensive coordinator</g-bubble>.

Brady doesn't seem to be able to get the job done here.

There are good matches and not so good.

[Mahdi]

When Beasley left Josh struggled.
McKenzie failed in this area and the primary reason he's gone.
Beasley gave Josh a certain level of comfort ..... these two can do much the same and much more.

This is true, but it only highlights Josh’s weakness.

He seems to need a slot WR like Beasley in order to find quick passes. And that has everything to do with Beasley and not much to do with Josh. Josh would stare him down and because he was so good at losing his man in a short time he would win his route and Josh would look pretty good.

What I saw from Josh last year was poor coaching… someone is not getting him to understand the value of the short routes and dump offs and it shouldn’t matter who his RB and TE are. He should be making them look good.

Dawson Knox and Singletary were underutilized…

We’ll see this season, but last season it was evident that Josh needed to be coached better.

[DraftBoy]

When Beasley left Josh struggled.
McKenzie failed in this area and the primary reason he's gone.
Beasley gave Josh a certain level of comfort ..... these two can do much the same and much more.

If that was true then when Beasley returned last year the issues would have been resolved which didn’t happen.

[DraftBoy]

The 2 high safeties have confounded Josh.

Who faced 2 high safety defenses the most last year? Buffalo

How do offenses effectively counter the 2 high safties? 12 personnel

Who ran 12 personnel the least last year? Buffalo

Who drafted Dalton Kincaid and added a power running element to be effective in 12 personnel? You guessed it.



Enter Kinkaid and the 12 personnel.

You guys are putting a hell of a lot of faith on a rookie TE and a personnel grouping that our OC and QB aren’t too familiar with. Hopefully it works out, but it doesn’t inspire confidence.

[sahlensguy]

This is year 6 and his second contract...he should be the mentor by now.

You would think a 6 year pro would have it all figured out and be fine on his own, but good luck with that. Maybe if he was a blue chip prospect having a solid foundation coming into the league, but Josh was unrequited and raw. He's a unique talent coming from nowhere to stardom on his big arm. He's not going to reign that in by himself.

[Goobylal]

If that was true then when Beasley returned last year the issues would have been resolved which didn’t happen.

Beasley is washed.

[daryls61]

Isabella and Harty will play Coalvid11 role. Might take some time but they have similar skill sets. JA17 getting used to new routs and personal so may start out slow until he gets comfortable. Throwing short is not JA17's strength.

[DraftBoy]

Beasley is washed.

When do you stop with excuses and start holding players or the team accountable?

[notacon]

It’s a preseason game. :rolleyes:

[DraftBoy]

It’s a preseason game. :rolleyes:

The conversation evolved. You need to follow along.

[ParanoidAndroid]

You guys are putting a hell of a lot of faith on a rookie TE and a personnel grouping that our OC and QB aren’t too familiar with. Hopefully it works out, but it doesn’t inspire confidence.
It was clearly a strategy they have been planning.

And of course we have to go on some faith here, because it's new.

But the idea that we did nothing is even less valid.

[Turf]

Love the short passing game today :)

[YardRat]

This is true, but it only highlights Josh’s weakness.

He seems to need a slot WR like Beasley in order to find quick passes. And that has everything to do with Beasley and not much to do with Josh. Josh would stare him down and because he was so good at losing his man in a short time he would win his route and Josh would look pretty good.

What I saw from Josh last year was poor coaching… someone is not getting him to understand the value of the short routes and dump offs and it shouldn’t matter who his RB and TE are. He should be making them look good.

Dawson Knox and Singletary were underutilized…

We’ll see this season, but last season it was evident that Josh needed to be coached better.

That's on Josh.

[YardRat]

You would think a 6 year pro would have it all figured out and be fine on his own, but good luck with that. Maybe if he was a blue chip prospect having a solid foundation coming into the league, but Josh was unrequited and raw. He's a unique talent coming from nowhere to stardom on his big arm. He's not going to reign that in by himself.

Where he came from is irrelevant. His progress last season (which he had none actually, he regressed) is based on the prior season. His progress this season will be based on last year.

Josh reached MVP and 'best player in the league' status a couple of seasons ago, if he has hit his ceiling or regresses more "well he was a little raw when he was drafted" is meaningless.

[Goobylal]

When do you stop with excuses and start holding players or the team accountable?

It's not an excuse. Beasley is almost 34-1/2.

[DraftBoy]

It's not an excuse. Beasley is almost 34-1/2.

Yes it is.

[Goobylal]

Yes it is.

Age eventually catches up with every player. Like it has with Beasley.

[DraftBoy]

Age eventually catches up with every player. Like it has with Beasley.

Yes it does, it’s just extremely convenient that you choose to use that as an excuse now.

[sahlensguy]

Where he came from is irrelevant. His progress last season (which he had none actually, he regressed) is based on the prior season. His progress this season will be based on last year.

Josh reached MVP and 'best player in the league' status a couple of seasons ago, if he has hit his ceiling or regresses more "well he was a little raw when he was drafted" is meaningless.

No. Going unrequited and coming into the league raw is never meaningless.

It's like building the best house in the neighborhood but when the ground shifts around it, only a solid foundation will save it.

[YardRat]

No. Going unrequited and coming into the league raw is never meaningless.

It's like building the best house in the neighborhood but when the ground shifts around it, only a solid foundation will save it.

It doesn't matter when the foundation is laid, mid-spring (college) or early summer (first couple of years in the league). Once the foundation is well-established and sound everything moves forward from there. The house is built, it's on Josh now to trick it out and maintain it. If he ignores it and it goes to hell it's his fault and nobody else's.

[Mahdi]

That's on Josh.

On the face of things yes it’s on Josh. But in the background this is coaching and system.

You should be able to get your 6 year vet QB to get it, shorts routes help your overall game and gets the defense out of coverages that are designed to stop your vertical game.

Don’t know how many times I saw our RBs open on wheel routes and he tucks and runs or tries for a low percentage throw.

[Goobylal]

Yes it does, it’s just extremely convenient that you choose to use that as an excuse now.

Huh? Beasley's was in decline in 2021. I saw them adding him last year as desperation.

[sahlensguy]

It doesn't matter when the foundation is laid, mid-spring (college) or early summer (first couple of years in the league). Once the foundation is well-established and sound everything moves forward from there. The house is built, it's on Josh now to trick it out and maintain it. If he ignores it and it goes to hell it's his fault and nobody else's.

Relative to his peers, the foundation was built on frozen ground in December. He didn't build it by himself and he can't be held responsible to maintain it by himself. I don't want a defensive minded HC and an unproven OC with maturity issues, but Josh shouldn't be voicing the same thing.

[GreedoII]

Cut his a$$

[DraftBoy]

Huh? Beasley's was in decline in 2021. I saw them adding him last year as desperation.

It’s more about the combination of your insistence that somehow adding Kincaid will fix the underneath passing game finally. Which requires a belief that we didn’t have that issue fixed earlier, which we did.

Many people believe Beasley was they key to that solution, so when it’s brought up that when he returned last year nothing change the auto response is that he’s washed.

Which is really nothing more than an excuse instead of acknowledging that the issue very well could be either Josh or Dorsey. Since that would require a critique of the team, the excuse is the automatic play.

[Goobylal]

It’s more about the combination of your insistence that somehow adding Kincaid will fix the underneath passing game finally. Which requires a belief that we didn’t have that issue fixed earlier, which we did.

Many people believe Beasley was they key to that solution, so when it’s brought up that when he returned last year nothing change the auto response is that he’s washed.

Which is really nothing more than an excuse instead of acknowledging that the issue very well could be either Josh or Dorsey. Since that would require a critique of the team, the excuse is the automatic play.

Yeah they had it fixed, when Beasley was in or close to his prime. You're basically saying Beasley is the same player he was even 2 years ago.

[Woodman]

Yeah they had it fixed, when Beasley was in or close to his prime. You're basically saying Beasley is the same player he was even 2 years ago.

and he's definitely not.

[cas22]

The 2 high safeties have confounded Josh.

Who faced 2 high safety defenses the most last year? Buffalo

How do offenses effectively counter the 2 high safties? 12 personnel

Who ran 12 personnel the least last year? Buffalo

Who drafted Dalton Kincaid and added a power running element to be effective in 12 personnel? You guessed it.

I agree with this but will Dorsey and Allen stick by it? both love the long pass,, we need a more west coast offense Allen would have won 3 mvps already..

Enter Kinkaid and the 12 personnel.

[Canadian'eh!]

Pretty interesting stuff. He was responsible for 2 of the 4 pressures by not taking the open guy quickly. If this is true he needs some growing up to do and develop the short passing game and eating clock.

https://twitter.com/Cover1/status/1695072981536358558

I mean, the thing with Josh is he will always hold the ball a bit more. His ability to escape is part of what makes him good. You live and die by his play making.

That said, there’s a balance. The hits, fumbles and INTs need to be cut down and part of that is getting the ball out quicker more often.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah they had it fixed, when Beasley was in or close to his prime. You're basically saying Beasley is the same player he was even 2 years ago.

Beasley wasn’t in his prime when he was here. Your premise is false.

[Goobylal]

Beasley wasn’t in his prime when he was here. Your premise is false.

Wrong. He had the most productive season of his career in 2020.

[Ingtar33]

This is true, but it only highlights Josh’s weakness.

He seems to need a slot WR like Beasley in order to find quick passes. And that has everything to do with Beasley and not much to do with Josh. Josh would stare him down and because he was so good at losing his man in a short time he would win his route and Josh would look pretty good.

What I saw from Josh last year was poor coaching… someone is not getting him to understand the value of the short routes and dump offs and it shouldn’t matter who his RB and TE are. He should be making them look good.

Dawson Knox and Singletary were underutilized…

We’ll see this season, but last season it was evident that Josh needed to be coached better.

i saw an awful lot of awful route running from the WRs last year. As the year went on it got worse. Josh and the WRs stopped trusting each other to be where they were supposed to be when they were. he got hesitant.

When your running double slants on the right, and the outside WR runs it too short and ends up overlapping the slot wr who got jammed at the line, that whole side of the field is gone. I can't tell you how often that happened last year. It was a joke.

Josh gets a ton of blame, sure, he deserves it, he's the QB, but the WRs were dog**** last year at executing, pretty much anything. There is a reason why they brought back beasley. McK was just not doing the job, and it was undermining the whole offense, heck Davis wasn't doing it either.

[YardRat]

On the face of things yes it’s on Josh. But in the background this is coaching and system.

You should be able to get your 6 year vet QB to get it, shorts routes help your overall game and gets the defense out of coverages that are designed to stop your vertical game.

Don’t know how many times I saw our RBs open on wheel routes and he tucks and runs or tries for a low percentage throw.

If the RB's are open, that's the coaches and system working. Josh ignoring them and choosing to run or throw deep is on him. We've heard the 'I've got to take what the defense gives me, I have to be more selective with running' rhetoric from Josh before, so obviously he's aware the coaches are coaching it and the system has it in place. If the 6-year vet isn't getting it by now when the evidence shows the rest of the components are working, that's on him.

[YardRat]

Relative to his peers, the foundation was built on frozen ground in December. He didn't build it by himself and he can't be held responsible to maintain it by himself. I don't want a defensive minded HC and an unproven OC with maturity issues, but Josh shouldn't be voicing the same thing.

No, it wasn't. Frozen ground in December would be the last years of his career. Of course he is responsible for himself.

[sahlensguy]

No, it wasn't. Frozen ground in December would be the last years of his career. Of course he is responsible for himself.

Comprehend "relative to his peers".

His rise from nowhere is pretty unique in the NFL.

[Novacane]

Cut his a$$

Hell Yeah! I'm all in with Barkley!!!!


:rolleyes: The ****ing crying and *****ing about a top 5 QB by a couple posters is so ****ing stupid. Seriously........it makes people look dumb! Let's dump him and see how long it takes to find something better!!!! WE TODD ED

[DraftBoy]

Wrong. He had the most productive season of his career in 2020.

And if a single season high of production was the long source of evidence of a player in his prime then you’d be correct, but you know that’s not the sole measure.

[Goobylal]

And if a single season high of production was the long source of evidence of a player in his prime then you’d be correct, but you know that’s not the sole measure.

Barring injury, it's pretty well-acknowledged that a player's prime is typically somewhere in the middle of his career (meaning between the first few years at the beginning and the end) and contains the season where he has his greatest output. Dropoff thereafter that shows decline, typically due to age.

[DraftBoy]

Barring injury, it's pretty well-acknowledged that a player's prime is typically somewhere in the middle of his career (meaning between the first few years at the beginning and the end) and contains the season where he has his greatest output. Dropoff thereafter that shows decline, typically due to age.

While I appreciate you explaining what middle means it’s doesn’t actually make the point you want it to.

[Goobylal]

While I appreciate you explaining what middle means it’s doesn’t actually make the point you want it to.

Sure it does. If a guy has his best season within the middle portion of his career, he's still in his prime. I don't even know why this need to be explained.

[Typ0]

Being smarter is the step forward he was supposed to take last year. We've heard...yet again...how focused he is, how he's going to take what the defense gives him, and he's going to start limiting the hero ball. And yet his play last week contradicts all three.

He needs to get his **** together right now.

He's been saying that every year yet same old same old. It's like being married to an alcoholic who keeps telling you they are going to quit tomorrow every day.

[Goobylal]

He's been saying that every year yet same old same old. It's like being married to an alcoholic who keeps telling you they are going to quit tomorrow every day.

Yeah. Time to divorce him if he doesn't soon...

[Forward_Lateral]

Remember the first half (maybe less) of last season when JOsh was taking what the opponents were giving him? Dumping down, completing the short throws and moving the chains. It seemed like after his injury something changed, and he just reverted back to looking down field and nowhere else.

[DraftBoy]

Sure it does. If a guy has his best season within the middle portion of his career, he's still in his prime. I don't even know why this need to be explained.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. It’s not worth a constant back and forth.

[Goobylal]

Remember the first half (maybe less) of last season when JOsh was taking what the opponents were giving him? Dumping down, completing the short throws and moving the chains. It seemed like after his injury something changed, and he just reverted back to looking down field and nowhere else.

That could also have something to do with it. Hard to say.


We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. It’s not worth a constant back and forth.

I agree.

[YardRat]

Comprehend "relative to his peers".

His rise from nowhere is pretty unique in the NFL.

It really isn't. There are all kinds of examples of successful QBs coming from nowhere littered throughout the history of the league. It's only unique to the "accuracy can't be taught" crowd, who were wrong from the beginning anyway.

[Goobylal]

It really isn't. There are all kinds of examples of successful QBs coming from nowhere littered throughout the history of the league. It's only unique to the "accuracy can't be taught" crowd, who were wrong from the beginning anyway.

What is unique is his completion percentage being sub-57% in college and succeeding in the NFL. I doubt you'll find a single player that ever did it for more than a season in the NFL.

[YardRat]

What is unique is his completion percentage being sub-57% in college and succeeding in the NFL. I doubt you'll find a single player that ever did it for more than a season in the NFL.

Kurt Warner was 57.1. Joe Theismann 56.7. Warren Moon 48.8. Doug Williams 51.4. Jim Kelly 55.6.

[Goobylal]

Kurt Warner was 57.1. Joe Theismann 56.7. Warren Moon 48.8. Doug Williams 51.4. Jim Kelly 55.6.

Different eras.

[JoeMama]

It really isn't. There are all kinds of examples of successful QBs coming from nowhere littered throughout the history of the league. It's only unique to the "accuracy can't be taught" crowd, who were wrong from the beginning anyway.

To be fair, the 'accuracy can't be taught' maxim was universally true... until Josh Allen broke the matrix.

The larger question is, can the league create more Josh Allens or was he a one-off?

Good article on it.


How Much Can You Really Develop a Quarterback in the NFL?

Josh Allen just had a historic season that nearly earned him MVP honors—but before that, many believed he’d be a bust. Is a leap like Allen’s replicable in the NFL, or was it one of a kind?

https://www.theringer.com/2021/4/28/22406266/quarterback-development-nfl-draft-josh-allen-buffalo-bills

[Mr. Pink]

Josh likes holding on to the ball a longer period of time than most QBs because he's still stuck in hero ball mode....always looking for the big play instead of just taking what the defense will give him.

This is the QB he is and will always be.

Most of the time it works out in our favor so we all overlook it, but it does rear its ugly head a few times a season and costs us games.