This is a new one

[Buffalogic]

Media is frothing at the mouth for a bills collapse.

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[YardRat]

He's right.

[Buffalogic]

He's right.
Elaborate.

[Novacane]

Where the hell did he get his information that Josh is lazy and doesn't put in work?

[YardRat]

Elaborate.

He didn't evolve more last season, at best he stagnated, and IMO he actually regressed a little. If he isn't working with Palmer any more, that's just an example of him not being committed enough. He showed zero leadership in either Cincinnati game.

[Woodman]

Whatever it takes for him to be more comfortable in the pocket ..... sometimes it's ok to throw it away .... reading a defense must be improved ..... this is the biggest area in need for improvement (EXTENSIVE FILM STUDY) !!!!!

It has to be with somebody that understands what the **** they're looking at ...... can we please improve from Joe Brady experience.

[Goobylal]

He didn't evolve more last season, at best he stagnated, and IMO he actually regressed a little. If he isn't working with Palmer any more, that's just an example of him not being committed enough. He showed zero leadership in either Cincinnati game.

And a horrible Safford, gimpy Brown and the UCL injury didn't affect him?

Whitlock is FOS. He doesn't know anything about the locker room of the Bills.

[Chet]

You gotta eat **** until you make others eat it instead

[Novacane]

And a horrible Safford, gimpy Brown and the UCL injury didn't affect him?

Whitlock is FOS. He doesn't know anything about the locker room of the Bills.

Last week he was ripping Diggs saying he just wanted to play in a big city. Now he does a 180 and it's all Josh Allens fault.

[Buffalogic]

I can’t really remember a guy who has only played 5 seasons get rode so hard for not winning a Super Bowl. Peyton didn’t win his first Super Bowl until his 9th season. Same for Brees, it took 9 seasons. Josh seems like he’s been expected to win for a couple years now. He’s just going into his 6th season.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

You gotta eat **** until you make others eat it instead

Yeah, eat ****.

[YardRat]

And a horrible Safford, gimpy Brown and the UCL injury didn't affect him?

Whitlock is FOS. He doesn't know anything about the locker room of the Bills.

One would think a poor offensive line and sore elbow would encourage a QB who is evolving to recognize both, utilize shorter routes and get rid of the ball quicker.

But he didn't.

Maybe Whitlock doesn't know **** and is speculating...but he's still right.

[sukie]

One would think a poor offensive line and sore elbow would encourage a QB who is evolving to recognize both, utilize shorter routes and get rid of the ball quicker.

But he didn't.

Maybe Whitlock doesn't know **** and is speculating...but he's still right.
You exonerate Dorsey then? Full pass?

[Forward_Lateral]

Who cares

[YardRat]

You exonerate Dorsey then? Full pass?

Full pass? No. But for the most part the plays were getting guys open, it ultimately comes down to Josh throwing to them.

[jamze132]

Watching Mahomes and Burrow get all the attention should motivate Josh to put it everything. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. We’ll see soon.

[daryls61]

One would think a poor offensive line and sore elbow would encourage a QB who is evolving to recognize both, utilize shorter routes and get rid of the ball quicker.

But he didn't.

Maybe Whitlock doesn't know **** and is speculating...but he's still right.

This is a good point. The next step Josh needs to take to evolve his game even in individual games as he sees what is happening, He relies on his huge arm to throw downfield and overlooks the short throws that can also gain yards. Short throws are not his strength so we will see what happens this year.

[Goobylal]

One would think a poor offensive line and sore elbow would encourage a QB who is evolving to recognize both, utilize shorter routes and get rid of the ball quicker.

But he didn't.

Maybe Whitlock doesn't know **** and is speculating...but he's still right.

And this is based on 1 game? A game in which no one played well, they were down another starter (Jones) and were facing the team in which their teammate almost died a few weeks earlier? It was all on Josh not allegedly throwing short passes to guys who were allegedly wide open on every play?

Sorry but Josh not throwing short passes has nothing to do with film study. Which is Whitlock's contention.

[DraftBoy]

And this is based on 1 game? A game in which no one played well, they were down another starter (Jones) and were facing the team in which their teammate almost died a few weeks earlier? It was all on Josh not allegedly throwing short passes to guys who were allegedly wide open on every play?

Sorry but Josh not throwing short passes has nothing to do with film study. Which is Whitlock's contention.

Nobody on this team should be immune from criticism or need to have excuses constantly made for them. Whitlock is trash and his opinion is nothing but click bait, but Josh also wasn’t anywhere near good enough for us to win the championship last year.

Both things can be true and that’s ok to accept. Accountability is a good thing, not something we’re duty bound to be afraid of.

[Goobylal]

Nobody on this team should be immune from criticism or need to have excuses constantly made for them. Whitlock is trash and his opinion is nothing but click bait, but Josh also wasn’t anywhere near good enough for us to win the championship last year.

Both things can be true and that’s ok to accept. Accountability is a good thing, not something we’re duty bound to be afraid of.

The team itself wasn't near good enough to win the championship last year. Too many injuries to starters and a poor OL (more on that below). I won't get into the mental fatigue from everything that happened, from the Tops shooting to Kim Pegula to Knox's brother's death to Hamlin, etc.

As for Josh, I give him a lot of leeway. He is the offense and hides major deficiencies on the OL with his legs. Last year he made enough plays to go undefeated in the regular season (they lost every game by 3 or fewer points).

As for taking the shorter passes, I've read that his UCL injury affected his ability to that, but I can't say for sure. But again, throwing the shorter passes isn't a matter of film study.

They need to put a good OL in front of Josh. If he had Kelly's OL...

[DraftBoy]

The team itself wasn't near good enough to win the championship last year. Too many injuries to starters and a poor OL (more on that below). I won't get into the mental fatigue from everything that happened, from the Tops shooting to Kim Pegula to Knox's brother's death to Hamlin, etc.

As for Josh, I give him a lot of leeway. He is the offense and hides major deficiencies on the OL with his legs. Last year he made enough plays to go undefeated in the regular season (they lost every game by 3 or fewer points).

As for taking the shorter passes, I've read that his UCL injury affected his ability to that, but I can't say for sure. But again, throwing the shorter passes isn't a matter of film study.

They need to put a good OL in front of Josh. If he had Kelly's OL...

This is just excuses.

[notacon]

He's right.

:rofl: No, he’s not.


The other guy on the clip had the perfect reaction....groaning in disgust at such a stupid comment.

Any true Bills fan would do the same.

[notacon]

And a horrible Safford, gimpy Brown and the UCL injury didn't affect him?

Whitlock is FOS. He doesn't know anything about the locker room of the Bills.

I never heard of the guy until this thread.

I knew bullcrap was on its way when he started out citing Stephen A. Smith.

Whitlock is known, and built his questionable reputation, as being a bomb thrower. He is a right winger and has regularly spouted wing nut rubbish that has gotten him attention.


No surprise that he employed by Fox....and started a new show, “Fearless with Jason Whitlock” on Blaze Media. A radical right wing propaganda outlet started by notorious wing nut demagogue, Glenn Beck.

He garnered some attention in 2021 by going on Tucker Carlson (one of the worst right wing demagogs in media) say “a lot of what the left supports is satanic” (https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/tucker-carlson-and-jason-whitlock-agree-lot-what-left-supports-satanic).

If one wats to hitch their wagon to this guy....good luck with being viewed with any shred of credibility.

[Goobylal]

This is just excuses.

No, they are reasons. So if Josh were to miss the season and they didn’t win the Super Bowl, that’s an excuse, right?

[DraftBoy]

No, they are reasons. So if Josh were to miss the season and they didn’t win the Super Bowl, that’s an excuse, right?

Yes they are. And yes it is.

One goal, every year. Failure to accomplish it should lead to accountability, no willful excuse making.

[YardRat]

And this is based on 1 game? A game in which no one played well, they were down another starter (Jones) and were facing the team in which their teammate almost died a few weeks earlier? It was all on Josh not allegedly throwing short passes to guys who were allegedly wide open on every play?

Sorry but Josh not throwing short passes has nothing to do with film study. Which is Whitlock's contention.

It's based on most of last season, not one game.

[Goobylal]

Yes they are. And yes it is.

One goal, every year. Failure to accomplish it should lead to accountability, no willful excuse making.

So the Ricky Bobby philosophy. I find that most that espouse it for others rarely ever judge themselves by it.


It's based on most of last season, not one game.

Like I said, the Bills lost every game in the regular season by 3 or fewer points and all in the closing moments. I could point to a dozen plays not involving Josh that would have changed the outcome of every one of those games. The Bengals game was a different story and again no one came to play that day.

[Chet]

Honestly, fair or not this is the **** we will have to listen to until they win the Chip. That’s how it goes and what makes last season so defeating. In 2020 and 2021, despite the losses to KC in the playoffs the optimism was overflowing because everybody and their mother was picking the Bills to win in 2022. It’s the first time since I was 7 or 8 that I legitimately thought the Bills were the best team in the NFL.

Fast-forward to the bye week last year (at which point we were already dealing with injuries on both sides of the ball), and I don’t think there’s one person on here who wasn’t all-in on Buffalo winning the SB.

Then, mysteriously, at halftime of the GB game this team developed multiple personality disorder and never recovered. Allen became turnover prone, not helped by the fact that the playcalling was AWFUL. Just run Josh into the line or have him keep chucking. McDermott was awful, just like 2021 when the team was completely different week to week. The guy simply can’t make in-game adjustments and is a front runner. Then Josh and Von got hurt, but you can’t even blame the latter’s injury on the Vikings or Jets loss because he was still healthy then.

Down the stretch we played only vastly inferior opponents and couldn’t put one away because they weren’t focused for a full 60 (again, crap coaching).

You just can’t trust this team, they always find a way to **** up a sure thing. Because of that, Allen will invariably take some of the blame. He is not without fault and definitely needs to make better decisions at times, but we are so keen to defend him because without him this team is drafting in the top 10. I will also white knight for him because he has a crap OL, no running game, and crap coaching/scheme that he has to overcome.

[Typ0]

The coaching should be accountable but people seem to just soak up more of their bull****. They are professional spin doctor bull****ters who can always get to the press conference after the fact and blame someone else and/or manufacture some excuse that just kicks the can down the road and continues to fail to get it done. Then, at the end of the day the same ole **** McDermotts brain conjurs up does us in.



Honestly, fair or not this is the **** we will have to listen to until they win the Chip. That’s how it goes and what makes last season so defeating. In 2020 and 2021, despite the losses to KC in the playoffs the optimism was overflowing because everybody and their mother was picking the Bills to win in 2022. It’s the first time since I was 7 or 8 that I legitimately thought the Bills were the best team in the NFL.

Fast-forward to the bye week last year (at which point we were already dealing with injuries on both sides of the ball), and I don’t think there’s one person on here who wasn’t all-in on Buffalo winning the SB.

Then, mysteriously, at halftime of the GB game this team developed multiple personality disorder and never recovered. Allen became turnover prone, not helped by the fact that the playcalling was AWFUL. Just run Josh into the line or have him keep chucking. McDermott was awful, just like 2021 when the team was completely different week to week. The guy simply can’t make in-game adjustments and is a front runner. Then Josh and Von got hurt, but you can’t even blame the latter’s injury on the Vikings or Jets loss because he was still healthy then.

Down the stretch we played only vastly inferior opponents and couldn’t put one away because they weren’t focused for a full 60 (again, crap coaching).

You just can’t trust this team, they always find a way to **** up a sure thing. Because of that, Allen will invariably take some of the blame. He is not without fault and definitely needs to make better decisions at times, but we are so keen to defend him because without him this team is drafting in the top 10. I will also white knight for him because he has a crap OL, no running game, and crap coaching/scheme that he has to overcome.

[Historian]

It's based on most of last season, not one game.
You mean the season that they won 14 games?

that season?

[Goobylal]

You mean the season that they won 14 games?

that season?

I guess. Josh was single-handedly responsible for them losing 3 games by 3 points or fewer in the regular season and that Bengals game where everyone came to play but him.

[Typ0]

I guess. Josh was single-handedly responsible for them losing 3 games by 3 points or fewer in the regular season and that Bengals game where everyone came to play but him.

I will disagree with that. The team was spent. The coaches knew it and coached scared. That wasn't all on Josh Allen.

However, I would say your idea does point out a big issue we have. If Josh Allen shows up every single week and plays like an ungodly human that can't be stopped and can will the team to win is when this team will succeed.

Now tell me when that's going to happen. Odds are really against it.

And when you play a string of other teams built to exploit everyone's strengths as opposed to being built to exploit the strenghts of the QB and ignore their weaknesses? Premature locker cleanout is in your future.

These people who claim humility aren't humble. Growth mindset? Why do we maintain the same ole same ole then?

Not buying it.

[YardRat]

You mean the season that they won 14 games?

that season?

Yes, that season.

Did we get a Hunt or Lombardi for winning 14 games and I missed it?

People like to bring up we only lost three games in the regular season., and how a play or two could have turned those losses into wins. Who cares? There were at least 4 wins, maybe 6, plus a wild card playoff game that could have been losses but for a couple of plays also.

[YardRat]

I guess. Josh was single-handedly responsible for them losing 3 games by 3 points or fewer in the regular season and that Bengals game where everyone came to play but him.

Nobody is saying Josh is the only one responsible. They all need to get better. But it also isn't "Josh is perfect and it's always somebody/something else's fault" when they lose.

[YardRat]

I will disagree with that. The team was spent. The coaches knew it and coached scared. That wasn't all on Josh Allen.

However, I would say your idea does point out a big issue we have. If Josh Allen shows up every single week and plays like an ungodly human that can't be stopped and can will the team to win is when this team will succeed.

Now tell me when that's going to happen. Odds are really against it.

And when you play a string of other teams built to exploit everyone's strengths as opposed to being built to exploit the strenghts of the QB and ignore their weaknesses? Premature locker cleanout is in your future.

These people who claim humility aren't humble. Growth mindset? Why do we maintain the same ole same ole then?

Not buying it.

This is where Josh needs to work harder. This is where Josh needs to get better. We hear the rhetoric, and have for a couple of seasons. "I'll learn from it. We need to be more focused. I need to play smarter, not turn the ball over and be more selective running." We heard it all of the time this off season. And then, the first time on the field against a different team the whole squad comes out stupid and flat, and Josh is running around like a beheaded chicken trying to play hero ball. In ****ing PRESEASON.

[Goobylal]

I will disagree with that. The team was spent. The coaches knew it and coached scared. That wasn't all on Josh Allen.

However, I would say your idea does point out a big issue we have. If Josh Allen shows up every single week and plays like an ungodly human that can't be stopped and can will the team to win is when this team will succeed.

Now tell me when that's going to happen. Odds are really against it.

And when you play a string of other teams built to exploit everyone's strengths as opposed to being built to exploit the strenghts of the QB and ignore their weaknesses? Premature locker cleanout is in your future.

These people who claim humility aren't humble. Growth mindset? Why do we maintain the same ole same ole then?

Not buying it.


Nobody is saying Josh is the only one responsible. They all need to get better. But it also isn't "Josh is perfect and it's always somebody/something else's fault" when they lose.


This is where Josh needs to work harder. This is where Josh needs to get better. We hear the rhetoric, and have for a couple of seasons. "I'll learn from it. We need to be more focused. I need to play smarter, not turn the ball over and be more selective running." We heard it all of the time this off season. And then, the first time on the field against a different team the whole squad comes out stupid and flat, and Josh is running around like a beheaded chicken trying to play hero ball. In ****ing PRESEASON.

It's a team game. Everyone needs to work harder. Josh worked his ass off in the 13 seconds game only to see the STs and defense, and then a coin flip, kill his chances.

[DraftBoy]

So the Ricky Bobby philosophy. I find that most that espouse it for others rarely ever judge themselves by it.



Like I said, the Bills lost every game in the regular season by 3 or fewer points and all in the closing moments. I could point to a dozen plays not involving Josh that would have changed the outcome of every one of those games. The Bengals game was a different story and again no one came to play that day.

I have no idea who that is. If you find accountability to be an issue than that’s fine, but it’s a personal preference not some widespread thought.

[notacon]

Yes they are. And yes it is.

One goal, every year. Failure to accomplish it should lead to accountability, no willful excuse making.

What a lame and totally unrealistic mindset and pure loser attitude.

Sorry, but 31 teams every single year do not win the SB. Failure to accomplish that goal is not anything close to the level of failure you suggest.

That attitude results in the question...’WHY does one even watch or follow football (or worse yet become a “fan” of one team) if 97% of the teams are considered a “failure’?

[notacon]

The team itself wasn't near good enough to win the championship last year. Too many injuries to starters and a poor OL (more on that below). I won't get into the mental fatigue from everything that happened, from the Tops shooting to Kim Pegula to Knox's brother's death to Hamlin, etc.

As for Josh, I give him a lot of leeway. He is the offense and hides major deficiencies on the OL with his legs. Last year he made enough plays to go undefeated in the regular season (they lost every game by 3 or fewer points).

As for taking the shorter passes, I've read that his UCL injury affected his ability to that, but I can't say for sure. But again, throwing the shorter passes isn't a matter of film study.

They need to put a good OL in front of Josh. If he had Kelly's OL...

I appreciate this take, but, it was JOSH ALLEN who ultimately had the chance to win every one of those 3 games, and his failings is what lost them all. More so against Miami and Minny than NYJ, but Miami and Minny are on his shoulders. Short hopping a 4th down go ahead TD, and then not able to get the team to the LOS on the last play of the game.

The fumble vs Minny was inexcusable. Then compounding that ****-up by throwing a very bad INT in OT.

The playoff loss, as I have pointed out (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263525-McDermott-is-Tempting-History-by-Calling-Defensive-Plays?p=5034518&viewfull=1#post5034518) time after time after time, an offense scoring only 10 points almost always leads to defeat.

With that said, Whitlock is talking out of his ass. That’s what he does. Says outrageous things to get attention.

I have 100% confidence in Josh Allen. He WILL win at least two Super Bowls before his career in Buffalo is over.

[notacon]

I guess. Josh was single-handedly responsible for them losing 3 games by 3 points or fewer in the regular season and that Bengals game where everyone came to play but him.

It’s NOT that "Josh was single-handedly responsible for them losing 3 games by 3 points or fewer in the regular season” but more accurate to say that Josh had the extremely good chance to win (at least 2) of those games and personally, failed.

[DraftBoy]

What a lame and totally unrealistic mindset and pure loser attitude.

Sorry, but 31 teams every single year do not win the SB. Failure to accomplish that goal is not anything close to the level of failure you suggest.

That attitude results in the question...’WHY does one even watch or follow football (or worse yet become a “fan” of one team) if 97% of the teams are considered a “failure’?

Failure is failure. Excuse it however you want, but that doesn’t change what it is.

If you need fandom to make yourself feel better, then that’s on you.

[Goobylal]

I appreciate this take, but, it was JOSH ALLEN who ultimately had the chance to win every one of those 3 games, and his failings is what lost them all. More so against Miami and Minny than NYJ, but Miami and Minny are on his shoulders. Short hopping a 4th down go ahead TD, and then not able to get the team to the LOS on the last play of the game.

The fumble vs Minny was inexcusable. Then compounding that ****-up by throwing a very bad INT in OT.

The playoff loss, as I have pointed out (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263525-McDermott-is-Tempting-History-by-Calling-Defensive-Plays?p=5034518&viewfull=1#post5034518) time after time after time, an offense scoring only 10 points almost always leads to defeat.

With that said, Whitlock is talking out of his ass. That’s what he does. Says outrageous things to get attention.

I have 100% confidence in Josh Allen. He WILL win at least two Super Bowls before his career in Buffalo is over.


It’s NOT that "Josh was single-handedly responsible for them losing 3 games by 3 points or fewer in the regular season” but more accurate to say that Josh had the extremely good chance to win (at least 2) of those games and personally, failed.

Yeah, no, it's a team game. Numerous blown opportunities during the game affect the outcome just as much as last minute ones can. But for good measure, against Miami, if McKenzie gets that final pass and goes out of bounds like he was supposed to (and why Dorsey went ape**** in the booth), they setup for a FG and Bass hits it, they win. Against the Vikings, if Lewis knocks down that pass on 4th down and long and it's game over. Against the Jets, if Davis makes the catch, it's likely game over.

[TigerJ]

He didn't evolve more last season, at best he stagnated, and IMO he actually regressed a little. If he isn't working with Palmer any more, that's just an example of him not being committed enough. He showed zero leadership in either Cincinnati game.I think you're right on Josh Allen's game last season. He stagnated. I'm hoping the evolution of Dorsey as an OC and the personnel changes among the skill players on offense will help him to refocus and develop mentally.

[YardRat]

Here's a decent interview with McAfee last week...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OV8wphZZ1mA?si=0Lm8fuNS_biJHAEO" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Typ0]

This is where Josh needs to work harder. This is where Josh needs to get better. We hear the rhetoric, and have for a couple of seasons. "I'll learn from it. We need to be more focused. I need to play smarter, not turn the ball over and be more selective running." We heard it all of the time this off season. And then, the first time on the field against a different team the whole squad comes out stupid and flat, and Josh is running around like a beheaded chicken trying to play hero ball. In ****ing PRESEASON.

Yes. How can you deny the team is going to be plagued with the same problems this year after seeing that pre-season game? There just hasn't been movement and we are right back to where we were at the beginning two seasons ago if not before.

It's not even a matter of working harder it's a matter of getting your head humble and getting the **** out of your own way because all you can fathom is what your dumb ass can think up. And when it's the head coaches and QBs dumb ass human brains thinking the **** up all the time it is destined to failure.

I commend McDermott for having the right idea -- he really does and tries to build it into the culture. Unfortunately, when the rubber hits the road other things step in and disaster ends up striking. So, I surmise he really doesn't understand what he is peddling on a deep enough level to be successful.

[Goobylal]

Yes. How can you deny the team is going to be plagued with the same problems this year after seeing that pre-season game? There just hasn't been movement and we are right back to where we were at the beginning two seasons ago if not before.

It's not even a matter of working harder it's a matter of getting your head humble and getting the **** out of your own way because all you can fathom is what your dumb ass can think up. And when it's the head coaches and QBs dumb ass human brains thinking the **** up all the time it is destined to failure.

I commend McDermott for having the right idea -- he really does and tries to build it into the culture. Unfortunately, when the rubber hits the road other things step in and disaster ends up striking. So, I surmise he really doesn't understand what he is peddling on a deep enough level to be successful.

You're seriously basing the season off of a pre-season game, one which the Bills didn't gameplan for and the Steelers did?

[YardRat]

You're seriously basing the season off of a pre-season game, one which the Bills didn't gameplan for and the Steelers did?

You don't have to gameplan to look like you've played the game before, or risk getting killed running around instead of just getting rid of the ball in a meaningless game. A team that is 'humble and hungry', or 'focused, doesn't come out half-assed and stupid in any game.

[cookie G]

Yes they are. And yes it is.

One goal, every year. Failure to accomplish it should lead to accountability, no willful excuse making.

The Ricky Bobby reference is from that god awful Talledega Nights movie. Will Ferrell said his father taught him that "If you're not first, you're last". Later in the movie, when he was talking to his father, his father said something like: "I never said that..it doesn't even make sense, if you're second, you're not last, if you're third you're not last, " etc.

Anyhoo...

OK, follow that logic.

Tom Brady won 7 rings, out of 23 years. In more than 2/3 of his seasons, he was a failure;
Drew Brees won 1 SB in 19 years. His failure rate is 18-1;
Likewise, Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring in 17 seasons, for 16 years he was a failure.

On and on. Its a nice concept in the abstract and I'm pretty sure that most NFL players, the good ones, feel the same way. Allen has said so himself a number of times. In practice though, its a pretty unattainable standard. You'd have to go back to Bart Starr to find a guy who might have..might have succeeded more than he failed..he never lost a playoff game.

Mahomes had this going on in 2020. He threw a few more INTs than usual (many of which bounced off his receivers hands), didn't throw quite as many TD's, and after a lights out shootout against Allen in the playoffs, lost to Cinci the next week.

there were small murmurs of "what's wrong with Mahomes"?

The next year he won a SB on a gimpy leg.


Damned, the guy had a 96 QB rating, ran for over 700 yarads and won 14 games on a team that was second in the league in dropped passes and gave up QB pressure on more than a third of his pass attempts.


This is the first time I've heard of anyone calling Josh lazy, and I'll consider the source.

Its along the same logic of people wanting to dismantle the team without any clue as how to fix whatever they perceive as wrong.

But then, I swear there are some people who would want Nathan Peterman back.

[Buffalogic]

Josh doesn’t have 3 number 1 receivers like burrow. He doesn’t have Andy Reid just drawing up plays where he can throw it sideways and get a multiple walk in touchdowns during a superbowl like mahomes. He had a rookie oc and one star receiver.

Josh doesn’t need to do anything different. What he really needs is a running game he can turn to that can make short yardage and red zone easier. Our major problem is it’s all about josh. If he’s not on, we’re going to lose.

When you get to the divisional round you need to be able to win in multiple ways. We haven’t been able to do that because we have no running game and our defense under Frazier was easy to pick apart for the best teams in the league. The running game or defense has to step up and contribute. That’s what has been lacking. Pinning anything on josh when we have those glaring problems is crazy.

[Typ0]

You're seriously basing the season off of a pre-season game, one which the Bills didn't gameplan for and the Steelers did?

When some glaring stuff emerges that has plagued you for years ... yes, absolutely! Those things aren't going away.

[DraftBoy]

The Ricky Bobby reference is from that god awful Talledega Nights movie. Will Ferrell said his father taught him that "If you're not first, you're last". Later in the movie, when he was talking to his father, his father said something like: "I never said that..it doesn't even make sense, if you're second, you're not last, if you're third you're not last, " etc.

Anyhoo...

OK, follow that logic.

Tom Brady won 7 rings, out of 23 years. In more than 2/3 of his seasons, he was a failure;
Drew Brees won 1 SB in 19 years. His failure rate is 18-1;
Likewise, Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring in 17 seasons, for 16 years he was a failure.

On and on. Its a nice concept in the abstract and I'm pretty sure that most NFL players, the good ones, feel the same way. Allen has said so himself a number of times. In practice though, its a pretty unattainable standard. You'd have to go back to Bart Starr to find a guy who might have..might have succeeded more than he failed..he never lost a playoff game.

Mahomes had this going on in 2020. He threw a few more INTs than usual (many of which bounced off his receivers hands), didn't throw quite as many TD's, and after a lights out shootout against Allen in the playoffs, lost to Cinci the next week.

there were small murmurs of "what's wrong with Mahomes"?

The next year he won a SB on a gimpy leg.


Damned, the guy had a 96 QB rating, ran for over 700 yarads and won 14 games on a team that was second in the league in dropped passes and gave up QB pressure on more than a third of his pass attempts.


This is the first time I've heard of anyone calling Josh lazy, and I'll consider the source.

Its along the same logic of people wanting to dismantle the team without any clue as how to fix whatever they perceive as wrong.

But then, I swear there are some people who would want Nathan Peterman back.

Well then I’m glad I don’t know the reference.

None of this changes the fact that there is only one goal every year, either you accomplish or you fail to do so. People need to stop being so afraid of failure, it’s ok to fail. It should make you stronger, better, and teach you far more than accomplishing a goal ever could.

I do the same thing in my own professional life, one goal every year either I accomplish it or I fail to do so. Failure is about growth and accountability, but people don’t like that concept so they create excuses and lesser goals to make themselves feel better about whatever it is they didn’t accomplish.

[YardRat]

The Ricky Bobby reference is from that god awful Talledega Nights movie. Will Ferrell said his father taught him that "If you're not first, you're last". Later in the movie, when he was talking to his father, his father said something like: "I never said that..it doesn't even make sense, if you're second, you're not last, if you're third you're not last, " etc.

Anyhoo...

OK, follow that logic.

Tom Brady won 7 rings, out of 23 years. In more than 2/3 of his seasons, he was a failure;
Drew Brees won 1 SB in 19 years. His failure rate is 18-1;
Likewise, Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring in 17 seasons, for 16 years he was a failure.

On and on. Its a nice concept in the abstract and I'm pretty sure that most NFL players, the good ones, feel the same way. Allen has said so himself a number of times. In practice though, its a pretty unattainable standard. You'd have to go back to Bart Starr to find a guy who might have..might have succeeded more than he failed..he never lost a playoff game.

Mahomes had this going on in 2020. He threw a few more INTs than usual (many of which bounced off his receivers hands), didn't throw quite as many TD's, and after a lights out shootout against Allen in the playoffs, lost to Cinci the next week.

there were small murmurs of "what's wrong with Mahomes"?

The next year he won a SB on a gimpy leg.


Damned, the guy had a 96 QB rating, ran for over 700 yarads and won 14 games on a team that was second in the league in dropped passes and gave up QB pressure on more than a third of his pass attempts.


This is the first time I've heard of anyone calling Josh lazy, and I'll consider the source.

Its along the same logic of people wanting to dismantle the team without any clue as how to fix whatever they perceive as wrong.

But then, I swear there are some people who would want Nathan Peterman back.

Nobody is expecting Josh to be perfect and help deliver a Super Bowl every year. If you want to talk QBs and Super Bowls only, Peyton Manning is the only QB this century...maybe ever...to win a Super Bowl with the team that drafted him without at least leading them to one in the first five years of starting. Josh would be an extreme exception and in a pretty exclusive club if (when) he does.

Josh has had a nice progression throughout his career, due in large part to the work he has put in, but last season he failed to get better. As a matter of fact he might have regressed. We heard he was supposed to play smarter, but he didn't. He set a career high for turnovers, so he didn't evolve away from hero ball. He set a career high for rushes, so he didn't evolve away from putting everything on his shoulders, putting his body at risk. Watch any film from any game after the bye and there will be a plethora of examples of Allen eschewing 'what the defense is giving him' and throwing deep or extending the play. So he didn't play smarter. We heard he was going to be a better leader, but he sits on the bench, silent with a mopey face, while a wide receivers verbally undresses him in front of the entire nation?

One would think a QB that has a suspect offensive line and an injured elbow would figure out that getting the ball out quick to an open receiver would be the smart move...but he didn't.

I sincerely believe...and thought Josh did too...that he walked off the field after 13 seconds absolutely knowing he was the best player in the entire league, the most dangerous offensive weapon in the game. I fully expected him to take the next step in his evolution and become the ruthless surgeon that would outsmart a defense with taking advantage of what was there and then consistently setting up daggers and kill shots. But he didn't.

And then there is the downward progression of the final results. '20 = embarrassed in championship game. '21 = lost in division round. '22 = embarrassed at home in division round. If the trend continues '23 = one and done in the wild card round. Or worse.

Finally there is the off-field stuff. Did he skip working with Palmer this off season, as reported? Brady made a mockery of Allen all day long during The Match, basically calling out his commitment. Trash talk only, or a little bit of truth?

Our best chance to win anything is with Allen at QB, everybody knows that. Maybe last season was a speed bump in his evolution and he will take those steps this season (fingers-crossed). He certainly has the ability to do so, as we all have seen. Maybe Whitlock is exaggerating from Hyperboleville insinuating that Josh is simply flat-out lazy, but the bottom line is he might not be working hard enough or committed enough to vie for a championship, and he needs to work harder to have a chance at one.

[notacon]

Failure is failure. Excuse it however you want, but that doesn’t change what it is.

If you need fandom to make yourself feel better, then that’s on you.

How insanely LAME!!!

I forgot if you are a father or not, but your incredibly dumb mindset is exactly like a bad parent with a totally unrealistic and self defeating metric of what “failure” is, and when to demand it.

A failed parent is one who expects their child to be the very top of the class in every subject EVERY year....and if they aren't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it every year and demand “accountability".

A failed parent is one who expects their child to graduate high school with Summa C_u_m Laude honors....and if they aren't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it and demand “accountability” .

A failed parent is one who expects their child to get into an Ivy League schools (akin to the a team getting into the playoffs)....and if they don't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it and demand “accountability”.

A failed parent is one who expects their child to graduate college with Summa C_u_m Laude honors....and if they aren't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it and demand “accountability” .

Yeah....a failed parent who sets their kid up for the warped perception of "failure” in effect, unless they achieve these absurd purity tests EVERY YEAR is considered a “loser”....and ensures that they will be constantly disappointed MUCH more than is realistic.

The REAL “loser” in this scenario is the stupid PARENT!!!! Your mindset is one of a FAILED “fan”. I guess some like to wallow in misery. Have at it.

[notacon]

Yeah, no, it's a team game. Numerous blown opportunities during the game affect the outcome just as much as last minute ones can. But for good measure, against Miami, if McKenzie gets that final pass and goes out of bounds like he was supposed to (and why Dorsey went ape**** in the booth), they setup for a FG and Bass hits it, they win. Against the Vikings, if Lewis knocks down that pass on 4th down and long and it's game over. Against the Jets, if Davis makes the catch, it's likely game over.

I know all of that. BUT, the FACT remains that Josh Allen, above all others, was the one who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

He ****ed it up with boneheaded sloppiness.

[notacon]

You're seriously basing the season off of a pre-season game, one which the Bills didn't gameplan for and the Steelers did?
+1,000.


It’s freakin' preseason. Meaningless, irrelevant pre-season. Teams have a much different goals (evaluating a lot of players in isolation) which is NOT winning the game.

[notacon]

The Ricky Bobby reference is from that god awful Talledega Nights movie. Will Ferrell said his father taught him that "If you're not first, you're last". Later in the movie, when he was talking to his father, his father said something like: "I never said that..it doesn't even make sense, if you're second, you're not last, if you're third you're not last, " etc.

Anyhoo...

OK, follow that logic.

Tom Brady won 7 rings, out of 23 years. In more than 2/3 of his seasons, he was a failure;
Drew Brees won 1 SB in 19 years. His failure rate is 18-1;
Likewise, Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring in 17 seasons, for 16 years he was a failure.

On and on. Its a nice concept in the abstract and I'm pretty sure that most NFL players, the good ones, feel the same way. Allen has said so himself a number of times. In practice though, its a pretty unattainable standard. You'd have to go back to Bart Starr to find a guy who might have..might have succeeded more than he failed..he never lost a playoff game.

Mahomes had this going on in 2020. He threw a few more INTs than usual (many of which bounced off his receivers hands), didn't throw quite as many TD's, and after a lights out shootout against Allen in the playoffs, lost to Cinci the next week.

there were small murmurs of "what's wrong with Mahomes"?

The next year he won a SB on a gimpy leg.


Damned, the guy had a 96 QB rating, ran for over 700 yarads and won 14 games on a team that was second in the league in dropped passes and gave up QB pressure on more than a third of his pass attempts.


This is the first time I've heard of anyone calling Josh lazy, and I'll consider the source.

Its along the same logic of people wanting to dismantle the team without any clue as how to fix whatever they perceive as wrong.

But then, I swear there are some people who would want Nathan Peterman back.

I did not read this before I wrote my “failed parent” analogy (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263743-This-is-a-new-one?p=5040048&viewfull=1#post5040048). I never even heard of Talledega Nights, but the sentiment is spot on.

[Goobylal]

The Ricky Bobby reference is from that god awful Talledega Nights movie. Will Ferrell said his father taught him that "If you're not first, you're last". Later in the movie, when he was talking to his father, his father said something like: "I never said that..it doesn't even make sense, if you're second, you're not last, if you're third you're not last, " etc.

Anyhoo...

OK, follow that logic.

Tom Brady won 7 rings, out of 23 years. In more than 2/3 of his seasons, he was a failure;
Drew Brees won 1 SB in 19 years. His failure rate is 18-1;
Likewise, Aaron Rodgers has 1 ring in 17 seasons, for 16 years he was a failure.

On and on. Its a nice concept in the abstract and I'm pretty sure that most NFL players, the good ones, feel the same way. Allen has said so himself a number of times. In practice though, its a pretty unattainable standard. You'd have to go back to Bart Starr to find a guy who might have..might have succeeded more than he failed..he never lost a playoff game.

Mahomes had this going on in 2020. He threw a few more INTs than usual (many of which bounced off his receivers hands), didn't throw quite as many TD's, and after a lights out shootout against Allen in the playoffs, lost to Cinci the next week.

there were small murmurs of "what's wrong with Mahomes"?

The next year he won a SB on a gimpy leg.


Damned, the guy had a 96 QB rating, ran for over 700 yarads and won 14 games on a team that was second in the league in dropped passes and gave up QB pressure on more than a third of his pass attempts.


This is the first time I've heard of anyone calling Josh lazy, and I'll consider the source.

Its along the same logic of people wanting to dismantle the team without any clue as how to fix whatever they perceive as wrong.

But then, I swear there are some people who would want Nathan Peterman back.

Good post. Except no one wants Peterman back.


I know all of that. BUT, the FACT remains that Josh Allen, above all others, was the one who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

He ****ed it up with boneheaded sloppiness.

Please. It's never the fault of one person as someone or several people could have done more during the game to not have to make it come down to the final drive (the reason I don't blame Norwood for SB XXV). And again I just gave you examples of other players were in position to end the game but failed, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[DraftBoy]

How insanely LAME!!!

I forgot if you are a father or not, but your incredibly dumb mindset is exactly like a bad parent with a totally unrealistic and self defeating metric of what “failure” is, and when to demand it.

A failed parent is one who expects their child to be the very top of the class in every subject EVERY year....and if they aren't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it every year and demand “accountability".

A failed parent is one who expects their child to graduate high school with Summa C_u_m Laude honors....and if they aren't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it and demand “accountability” .

A failed parent is one who expects their child to get into an Ivy League schools (akin to the a team getting into the playoffs)....and if they don't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it and demand “accountability”.

A failed parent is one who expects their child to graduate college with Summa C_u_m Laude honors....and if they aren't, they consider it “failure” and berate their kid on it and demand “accountability” .

Yeah....a failed parent who sets their kid up for the warped perception of "failure” in effect, unless they achieve these absurd purity tests EVERY YEAR is considered a “loser”....and ensures that they will be constantly disappointed MUCH more than is realistic.

The REAL “loser” in this scenario is the stupid PARENT!!!! Your mindset is one of a FAILED “fan”. I guess some like to wallow in misery. Have at it.

For somebody who has literally lost their **** on this board about others posters talking about your family, maybe you should look in the mirror when questioning how you think others parent.

[cas22]

one of our biggest issue is having a ex QB calling plays,,,, another issue is Josh loving the deep pass, so now you have a QB who loves to call deep routes and a QB who loves to throw them, many say we don't have a run game, that's false, its always been there its knowing how and using it, are running backs averaged over 5 yards a pop last year per carry they just didn't carry the ball enough..

many times Allen would force a pass 20 yards down feild while Singletary was wide open on a dump off for at least 5 or 6 yards... also this offense has no deception what so ever. we just about tell opposing defenses if its a pass or run.. empty back feild is one of Dorsey's favorite formations to run out of.

we want to be more balanced it starts with Dorsy.

[notacon]

For somebody who has literally lost their **** on this board about others posters talking about your family, maybe you should look in the mirror when questioning how you think others parent.

:rolleyes: Except I did NOT do what I have "literally lost their **** on this board”....which is in FACT, when “other posters” not just were “talking” about my family but **** ON THEM and used false, vicious and personal ATTACKS and negative insults to get at me.

This was a rhetorical exercise by using an analogy that is easy to understand and relate to.

YOU trying to compare a "rhetorical exercise” to VERY real and VICIOUS ATTACKS on my family in an extremely dishonest way reveals YOUR character, not mine.

My analogy is SPOT ON. As evidenced by you non-denial denial in response to me calling out your silly loser talk.

[sukie]

Your entire family wears army boots. And continues wearing white this week.

[Chet]

:rolleyes: Except I did NOT do what I have "literally lost their **** on this board”....which is in FACT, when “other posters” not just were “talking” about my family but **** ON THEM and used false, vicious and personal ATTACKS and negative insults to get at me.

This was a rhetorical exercise by using an analogy that is easy to understand and relate to.

YOU trying to compare a "rhetorical exercise” to VERY real and VICIOUS ATTACKS on my family in an extremely dishonest way reveals YOUR character, not mine.

My analogy is SPOT ON. As evidenced by you non-denial denial in response to me calling out your silly loser talk.
Are you going through changes?

[DraftBoy]

:rolleyes: Except I did NOT do what I have "literally lost their **** on this board”....which is in FACT, when “other posters” not just were “talking” about my family but **** ON THEM and used false, vicious and personal ATTACKS and negative insults to get at me.

This was a rhetorical exercise by using an analogy that is easy to understand and relate to.

YOU trying to compare a "rhetorical exercise” to VERY real and VICIOUS ATTACKS on my family in an extremely dishonest way reveals YOUR character, not mine.

My analogy is SPOT ON. As evidenced by you non-denial denial in response to me calling out your silly loser talk.

Thank you for illustrating my point and your need to look in the mirror.

[notacon]

Good post. Except no one wants Peterman back.



Please. It's never the fault of one person as someone or several people could have done more during the game to not have to make it come down to the final drive (the reason I don't blame Norwood for SB XXV). And again I just gave you examples of other players were in position to end the game but failed, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Except the failure to win when victory was well within the grasp of Josh Allen against Miami and Minny are perfect examples of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”.

At the time of Norwood’s failed FG try, FG’s of that length were relatively rare. THE NFL stats only provide 10 yard ranges of FG tries so it is not precise since Norwood missed a 47 yard FG and the range supplied is 40-49.

A quick look at 2022 stats in comparison to 1990 shows both the number of tries and especially the percentage of success greatly expanded as the years go by.

1990 NFL FG Stats (https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/field-goals/1990/reg/all/kickingfgattmade40to49/desc)

2022 NFL FG Stats (https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/field-goals/2022/REG/all/kickingfgattmade40to49/desc)


In 1990 there were only eight kickers that tired more than 10 FG from 40+ yards. The most attempts was 13 (8 successful). Scott Norwood was 6/10.

In 2022 there were SEVENTEEN kickers that tired more than 10 FG from 40-50 yards yards. The most attempts were 14. Eddy Pineiro went 13/14. Nick Folk went 10/14. Jason Sanders went 12/13. Riley Patterson went 10/13.


In 1990, only ONE kicker was perfect from 40-50 yards. John Carney, San Diego Chargers, went 3/3. Six kickers missed none or one from that range.

In 2022, FIVE kickers were perfect from 40-50 yards....and TWENTY TWO missed none or one. Ryan Succop went 12/12. Brandon McManus went 10/10.

Take a look at the number of attempts made 50+ yards in 1990 as compared to 2022. In 1990, ZERO FG’s were even TRIED from 50+ yards. In 2022, THIRTY FOUR kickers tried at least one FG from 50+ yards. SEVEN kickers tried at least 10 from 50+. And the success rate was better than what 40+ yard attempts in 1990.

In other words, kicking a 47 yard FG (especially on grass, where Norwood was much more used to artifial turf, and the surface in Rich Stadium at that time was nooter like a bollard table than today’s surfaces) was a relatively unusual event.

Josh screwed up two plays that was VERY unusual to SCREW UP.

Watch that short hop 4th down pass agin.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/enoUCDJyH3A?si=yVDWeu5jAbXO6h20" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Virtually every QB in the NFL and NFL practice squad could and SHOULD make that relatively EASY pass.

Against Minny, fumbling one of the most common successful plays a QB can make, the kneel down for the WIN, not only was screwed up, but gave Minny the go-ahead TD!!!

Sorry, but Josh did, in fact, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Winning either of those games could have resulted in the #1 seed....and quite possibly a completely different playoff.

If ANY team needed a week off, it was the Buffalo Bills. KC would have to play against Miami, instead of the Bills (and probably win), and there the Bills, well rested, would have met JAX in Buffalo instead of Cincy in the div round. The Bills probably would have won that game.

Cincy and KC would have battled it out instead of Div weekend. The AFC Championship game, in Buffalo, could have been a Buffalo win.

In any event, like I said, I have extreme confidence in Josh Allen and I believe this year's team is better. But I am not going to ignore the 2022 increases in Josh’s turnovers and INT’s especially in the red zone. He has to clean that up for the team to progress.

[notacon]

Thank you for illustrating my point and your need to look in the mirror.

Actually I did NOT “illustrate” your lame false equivalence point and YOU should “look in the mirror”.


This is just more non-denial denial.

I exposed your hubris for what it is. Loser talk.

[notacon]

]Your entire family wears army boots.[/B] And continues wearing white this week.

Is that meant to be an insult??? Are you insulting members of the military????

[sukie]

Is that meant to be an insult??? Are you insulting members of the military????

Perhaps. Don’t know your white after Labor Day family.

[Goobylal]

Except the failure to win when victory was well within the grasp of Josh Allen against Miami and Minny are perfect examples of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”.

At the time of Norwood’s failed FG try, FG’s of that length were relatively rare. THE NFL stats only provide 10 yard ranges of FG tries so it is not precise since Norwood missed a 47 yard FG and the range supplied is 40-49.

A quick look at 2022 stats in comparison to 1990 shows both the number of tries and especially the percentage of success greatly expanded as the years go by.

1990 NFL FG Stats (https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/field-goals/1990/reg/all/kickingfgattmade40to49/desc)

2022 NFL FG Stats (https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/field-goals/2022/REG/all/kickingfgattmade40to49/desc)


In 1990 there were only eight kickers that tired more than 10 FG from 40+ yards. The most attempts was 13 (8 successful). Scott Norwood was 6/10.

In 2022 there were SEVENTEEN kickers that tired more than 10 FG from 40-50 yards yards. The most attempts were 14. Eddy Pineiro went 13/14. Nick Folk went 10/14. Jason Sanders went 12/13. Riley Patterson went 10/13.


In 1990, only ONE kicker was perfect from 40-50 yards. John Carney, San Diego Chargers, went 3/3. Six kickers missed none or one from that range.

In 2022, FIVE kickers were perfect from 40-50 yards....and TWENTY TWO missed none or one. Ryan Succop went 12/12. Brandon McManus went 10/10.

Take a look at the number of attempts made 50+ yards in 1990 as compared to 2022. In 1990, ZERO FG’s were even TRIED from 50+ yards. In 2022, THIRTY FOUR kickers tried at least one FG from 50+ yards. SEVEN kickers tried at least 10 from 50+. And the success rate was better than what 40+ yard attempts in 1990.

In other words, kicking a 47 yard FG (especially on grass, where Norwood was much more used to artifial turf, and the surface in Rich Stadium at that time was nooter like a bollard table than today’s surfaces) was a relatively unusual event.

Josh screwed up two plays that was VERY unusual to SCREW UP.

Watch that short hop 4th down pass agin.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/enoUCDJyH3A?si=yVDWeu5jAbXO6h20" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Virtually every QB in the NFL and NFL practice squad could and SHOULD make that relatively EASY pass.

Against Minny, fumbling one of the most common successful plays a QB can make, the kneel down for the WIN, not only was screwed up, but gave Minny the go-ahead TD!!!

Sorry, but Josh did, in fact, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Winning either of those games could have resulted in the #1 seed....and quite possibly a completely different playoff.

If ANY team needed a week off, it was the Buffalo Bills. KC would have to play against Miami, instead of the Bills (and probably win), and there the Bills, well rested, would have met JAX in Buffalo instead of Cincy in the div round. The Bills probably would have won that game.

Cincy and KC would have battled it out instead of Div weekend. The AFC Championship game, in Buffalo, could have been a Buffalo win.

In any event, like I said, I have extreme confidence in Josh Allen and I believe this year's team is better. But I am not going to ignore the 2022 increases in Josh’s turnovers and INT’s especially in the red zone. He has to clean that up for the team to progress.

Most people blame Norwood for SBXXV. You're doing the same with Josh. Again there were many other players who contributed to those losses, and in 2 of them, Josh gave the players the chance to make plays on the last offensive play and they failed.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Is that meant to be an insult??? Are you insulting members of the military????
Dear God, man.
do you have zero sense of humor??????
this is clearly a joke!!!

[DraftBoy]

Actually I did NOT “illustrate” your lame false equivalence point and YOU should “look in the mirror”.


This is just more non-denial denial.

I exposed your hubris for what it is. Loser talk.

:rofl:

Is that what you think you accomplished? You either really enjoy playing this character of yours or find some other amusement in posting completely out of touch posts.

The irony is so thick here that it’s not possible that you’re actually serious.

But you do you boo boo.

[notacon]

Dear God, man.
do you have zero sense of humor??????
this is clearly a joke!!!

So was my post. Which was clearly a joke.

[notacon]

:rofl:

Is that what you think you accomplished? You either really enjoy playing this character of yours or find some other amusement in posting completely out of touch posts.

The irony is so thick here that it’s not possible that you’re actually serious.

But you do you boo boo.
Still in deep non-denial denial.

But, hey....you want to be a sour puss “fan” with your ludicrous definition of what “failure” is in the NFL....****ting on the Bills as you put forth such dribble....that’s your business. And it’s my business to call you out on it. I could not care less if your poor sensitive feathers are ruffled.

The fact is that my analogy of a failed parent is SPOT ON!!! 100% accurate and valid.

You can “boo-hoo” all you want with the lame non-denial denials. THAT is the “irony”.

[notacon]

Most people blame Norwood for SBXXV. You're doing the same with Josh. Again there were many other players who contributed to those losses, and in 2 of them, Josh gave the players the chance to make plays on the last offensive play and they failed.

I made my valid point several times and stand by it. Josh Allen did in fact, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. There is no denying it.

[Goobylal]

I made my valid point several times and stand by it. Josh Allen did in fact, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. There is no denying it.

And I've made mine. It's a team game.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

So was my post. Which was clearly a joke.
My apologies

[DraftBoy]

Still in deep non-denial denial.

But, hey....you want to be a sour puss “fan” with your ludicrous definition of what “failure” is in the NFL....****ting on the Bills as you put forth such dribble....that’s your business. And it’s my business to call you out on it. I could not care less if your poor sensitive feathers are ruffled.

The fact is that my analogy of a failed parent is SPOT ON!!! 100% accurate and valid.

You can “boo-hoo” all you want with the lame non-denial denials. THAT is the “irony”.

You are in no position to lecture or judge anybody about fandom nor do you have the capacity to properly construct a poor argument about how you perceive others parent. Your character shows through in nearly every interaction you have here.

[YardRat]

And I've made mine. It's a team game.


Why is it just about everybody claims the success or failure of this team is completely dependent on Josh, but when they lose it's everybody else's fault?

[Goobylal]

Why is it just about everybody claims the success or failure of this team is completely dependent on Josh, but when they lose it's everybody else's fault?

Please.

[notacon]

You are in no position to lecture or judge anybody about fandom nor do you have the capacity to properly construct a poor argument about how you perceive others parent. Your character shows through in nearly every interaction you have here.

I absolutely AM in a "position to lecture or judge” anyone I want for whatever reason I want.

My argument about what failed parenting looks like is SPOT ON!!!! 100% accurate. GOOD parents already know this. Bad parents are too clueless to admit their failure.

In any event, my analogy was not meant as any judgment on YOUR parenting skills....like I said....I have no idea if you are a parent or not.

It was OBVIOUSLY a rhetorical argument crapping on your crappy criteria (and woefully LAME and extremely poor argument) on what constitutes “failure” for any NFL team and especially the Bills.

If you don’t like my observations....I don’t give a flying ****.

[Forward_Lateral]

I would rather have nobody picking the Bills to win anything, then have them be superbowl darlings. I don't care what anyone says, if everyone is picking you to win the superbowl, it goes to your head.

[Jeff1220]

Whitlock is a conspiracy theorist with no credibility.

[DraftBoy]

I absolutely AM in a "position to lecture or judge” anyone I want for whatever reason I want.

My argument about what failed parenting looks like is SPOT ON!!!! 100% accurate. GOOD parents already know this. Bad parents are too clueless to admit their failure.

In any event, my analogy was not meant as any judgment on YOUR parenting skills....like I said....I have no idea if you are a parent or not.

It was OBVIOUSLY a rhetorical argument crapping on your crappy criteria (and woefully LAME and extremely poor argument) on what constitutes “failure” for any NFL team and especially the Bills.

If you don’t like my observations....I don’t give a flying ****.

Once again you illustrate why you are in no position to pass judgement on anybody for anything.

[Forward_Lateral]

Once again you illustrate why you are in no position to pass judgement on anybody for anything.

I applaud you for reading all of that

[Mace]

I applaud you for reading all of that

I'm guessing he didn't have to.

[DraftBoy]

I applaud you for reading all of that

Oh I didn’t read it, there is no need. It’s just the same stuff repeated with different size fonts and random capitalization due to a failure to make a convincing enough point.

[notacon]

Once again you illustrate why you are in no position to pass judgement on anybody for anything.

Jesus. Give it up. YOU made a incredibly stupid metic for “failure” and I accurately called you out on it.

Go whine to someone else.

YOU ‘once again you illustrate why you are in no position to pass judgement on anybody for anything.’ Look in the mirror!!!!

[DraftBoy]

Jesus. Give it up. YOU made a incredibly stupid metic for “failure” and I accurately called you out on it.

Go whine to someone else.

YOU ‘once again you illustrate why you are in no position to pass judgement on anybody for anything.’ Look in the mirror!!!!

Using the “I know you are, but what am I?” didn’t really work in grade school, not sure why you think it will work now.

[OpIv37]

I absolutely AM in a "position to lecture or judge” anyone I want for whatever reason I want.

My argument about what failed parenting looks like is SPOT ON!!!! 100% accurate. GOOD parents already know this. Bad parents are too clueless to admit their failure.

In any event, my analogy was not meant as any judgment on YOUR parenting skills....like I said....I have no idea if you are a parent or not.

It was OBVIOUSLY a rhetorical argument crapping on your crappy criteria (and woefully LAME and extremely poor argument) on what constitutes “failure” for any NFL team and especially the Bills.

If you don’t like my observations....I don’t give a flying ****.

Notty, you and I have found some common ground on most non-Bills related stutt. We certainly still have our disagreements over the Bills.

I didn’t read thorough this whole thread. I don’t know if you’re right or wrong. I’m not even completely sure what you and DB are argument about.

But you really do spend a lot of time trying to convince people about how great and accurate your opinions are. Perhaps you should do some self-reflection on that.

[DraftBoy]

Notty, you and I have found some common ground on most non-Bills related stutt. We certainly still have our disagreements over the Bills.

I didn’t read thorough this whole thread. I don’t know if you’re right or wrong. I’m not even completely sure what you and DB are argument about.

But you really do spend a lot of time trying to convince people about how great and accurate your opinions are. Perhaps you should do some self-reflection on that.

You should read it, some good tidbits in here.

[Historian]

Yea....incredibly stupid metric!

[cookie G]

Well then I’m glad I don’t know the reference.

None of this changes the fact that there is only one goal every year, either you accomplish or you fail to do so. People need to stop being so afraid of failure, it’s ok to fail. It should make you stronger, better, and teach you far more than accomplishing a goal ever could.

I do the same thing in my own professional life, one goal every year either I accomplish it or I fail to do so. Failure is about growth and accountability, but people don’t like that concept so they create excuses and lesser goals to make themselves feel better about whatever it is they didn’t accomplish.

Considering this thread is about Josh Allen, I've never heard of anyone accusing him of being afraid of failure.

[DraftBoy]

Considering this thread is about Josh Allen, I've never heard of anyone accusing him of being afraid of failure.

Neither have I. I also don’t really know that’s he’s talked about it much either.

[cookie G]

Nobody is expecting Josh to be perfect and help deliver a Super Bowl every year. If you want to talk QBs and Super Bowls only, Peyton Manning is the only QB this century...maybe ever...to win a Super Bowl with the team that drafted him without at least leading them to one in the first five years of starting. Josh would be an extreme exception and in a pretty exclusive club if (when) he does.

Josh has had a nice progression throughout his career, due in large part to the work he has put in, but last season he failed to get better. As a matter of fact he might have regressed. We heard he was supposed to play smarter, but he didn't. He set a career high for turnovers, so he didn't evolve away from hero ball. He set a career high for rushes, so he didn't evolve away from putting everything on his shoulders, putting his body at risk. Watch any film from any game after the bye and there will be a plethora of examples of Allen eschewing 'what the defense is giving him' and throwing deep or extending the play. So he didn't play smarter. We heard he was going to be a better leader, but he sits on the bench, silent with a mopey face, while a wide receivers verbally undresses him in front of the entire nation?

One would think a QB that has a suspect offensive line and an injured elbow would figure out that getting the ball out quick to an open receiver would be the smart move...but he didn't.

I sincerely believe...and thought Josh did too...that he walked off the field after 13 seconds absolutely knowing he was the best player in the entire league, the most dangerous offensive weapon in the game. I fully expected him to take the next step in his evolution and become the ruthless surgeon that would outsmart a defense with taking advantage of what was there and then consistently setting up daggers and kill shots. But he didn't.

And then there is the downward progression of the final results. '20 = embarrassed in championship game. '21 = lost in division round. '22 = embarrassed at home in division round. If the trend continues '23 = one and done in the wild card round. Or worse.

Finally there is the off-field stuff. Did he skip working with Palmer this off season, as reported? Brady made a mockery of Allen all day long during The Match, basically calling out his commitment. Trash talk only, or a little bit of truth?

Our best chance to win anything is with Allen at QB, everybody knows that. Maybe last season was a speed bump in his evolution and he will take those steps this season (fingers-crossed). He certainly has the ability to do so, as we all have seen. Maybe Whitlock is exaggerating from Hyperboleville insinuating that Josh is simply flat-out lazy, but the bottom line is he might not be working hard enough or committed enough to vie for a championship, and he needs to work harder to have a chance at one.

IF he "regressed", it wasn't by much. 150 less passing yards, 1 less TD pass.

He actually had one less INT than in 2021 a slightly higher rating and a higher QBR.

ANd it was already a pretty damned high bar that was set. Not to mention that his Oline was giving up pressures on more than 1/2 of his passes, and his receivers were 2nd in the league in drops, plus a plethora of other issues last season.

Not that its making excuses for him, but some people like to act like he was playing like Trent Edwards last year, or the downside of Fitz.

IF it was truly "his commitment to the game", as the article states...he wouldn't be playing at that high of a level. He couldn't. The margin of error is pretty damned slim for a QB in the NFL and you would see a far bigger drop off if the article was true.

[Goobylal]

IF he "regressed", it wasn't by much. 150 less passing yards, 1 less TD pass.

He actually had one less INT than in 2021 a slightly higher rating and a higher QBR.

ANd it was already a pretty damned high bar that was set. Not to mention that his Oline was giving up pressures on more than 1/2 of his passes, and his receivers were 2nd in the league in drops, plus a plethora of other issues last season.

Not that its making excuses for him, but some people like to act like he was playing like Trent Edwards last year, or the downside of Fitz.

IF it was truly "his commitment to the game", as the article states...he wouldn't be playing at that high of a level. He couldn't. The margin of error is pretty damned slim for a QB in the NFL and you would see a far bigger drop off if the article was true.

And don't forget the UCL injury. I know some people claim it to be an "excuse" but it's real.

[Typ0]

IF he "regressed", it wasn't by much. 150 less passing yards, 1 less TD pass.

He actually had one less INT than in 2021 a slightly higher rating and a higher QBR.

ANd it was already a pretty damned high bar that was set. Not to mention that his Oline was giving up pressures on more than 1/2 of his passes, and his receivers were 2nd in the league in drops, plus a plethora of other issues last season.

Not that its making excuses for him, but some people like to act like he was playing like Trent Edwards last year, or the downside of Fitz.

IF it was truly "his commitment to the game", as the article states...he wouldn't be playing at that high of a level. He couldn't. The margin of error is pretty damned slim for a QB in the NFL and you would see a far bigger drop off if the article was true.

That is something they really have to look at when evaluating Allen's performance. Things on the field just get beyond what needs to be required of him to win and then he can explode and/or implode because he was put in that position in the first place. You just can't look at the data set and think one doesn't go with the other then get all excited about the explosions while ignoring the implosions are going to be there.

Every single party involved seems to be on board with the following:

1) He is too large a part of the designed running game.
2) The results we are getting from the OLine needs to improve.

We hear it every year from the players and coaches and management ... then we all talk about it.

Where are the results on that?

We are in trouble this year it doesn't have as much to do with Josh Allen as it does with the team being built poorly. He's not going to be able to pull a miracle out of his ass every single time.

A lot of people above seem to blame Josh Allen for the Vikings loss last season...baloney! We got our asses beat by an incessant monster that day. That is how every single guy on our roster needs to play every time the ball is snapped this season in order for us to be successful. Josh Allen has given us that which is why he is getting endorsement gigs. Anyone questioning his committment needs to do some self searching about what they are talking about and the standards they set to define things in their world. Allen's problem is his committment is so high he can't listen through his lens to what needs to be heard even from himself. The coaches aren't getting through to him ... well it looks to me like they continue to fail to put onto the field what he really needs to get outside of some of this.

I get this is my pessimistic opinion but I don't think this roster is built to go 12 - 5 with the consideration of the talent we are going to be facing most weeks. I am going to sit back and enjoy the hell out of watching some Josh Allen play with the understanding it is the organization that has let him down. Getting Josh Allen running around like a chicken with his head cut off is nothing but marketing prowess which shouldn't factor into your attempt to compete at a high level -- you have to do what you have to do and we don't.

At least it will be more exciting to watch than the Tom Donahoe era but these guys do their own veiled song and dance that usually ends with stepping in ****.

[Typ0]

Maybe they will be smart enough to line up Diggs, Kincade & Cook all over the place. Would really like to see them open Cook up to working all over the field it would help Allen immensely. I doubt it though.

[notacon]

Notty, you and I have found some common ground on most non-Bills related stutt. We certainly still have our disagreements over the Bills.

I didn’t read thorough this whole thread. I don’t know if you’re right or wrong. I’m not even completely sure what you and DB are argument about.

But you really do spend a lot of time trying to convince people about how great and accurate your opinions are. Perhaps you should do some self-reflection on that.

That is advice that DraftBoy and so many posters should take when their knee-jerk reaction is to oppose anything I write, no matter how much sense it makes.

My opinions and arguments stand on their own. I will always defend myself from unfair and unrealistic attacks. Some posters just cannot admit the things they write were a bit over the top. Instead of actually reflecting about whet they wrote, they choose to attack me because I correctly call them out for their hubris.

[notacon]

Considering this thread is about Josh Allen, I've never heard of anyone accusing him of being afraid of failure.

This is not about anyone being “afraid of failure”.

It’s the utterly unrealistic, and seriously lame metic of what constitutes “failure” by DB.

My analogy of what that destructive mindset looks like in a world that all of us could relate to (none of us are or ever have been a professional NFL player or coach...but ALL of us had parents) when the exact same mindset and criteria is summarized with my spot on observation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263743-This-is-a-new-one?p=5040048&viewfull=1#post5040048) (that DB can’t refute...so he goes on a non-denial denial tirade and resorts to insulting me :rolleyes:)

[Mr. Pink]

This team will only go as far as Josh Allen can take them.

There are very few teams where one player has to shoulder all the success or all the blame, we're one of them.

[YardRat]

IF he "regressed", it wasn't by much. 150 less passing yards, 1 less TD pass.

He actually had one less INT than in 2021 a slightly higher rating and a higher QBR.

ANd it was already a pretty damned high bar that was set. Not to mention that his Oline was giving up pressures on more than 1/2 of his passes, and his receivers were 2nd in the league in drops, plus a plethora of other issues last season.

Not that its making excuses for him, but some people like to act like he was playing like Trent Edwards last year, or the downside of Fitz.

IF it was truly "his commitment to the game", as the article states...he wouldn't be playing at that high of a level. He couldn't. The margin of error is pretty damned slim for a QB in the NFL and you would see a far bigger drop off if the article was true.

Stats don't mean dick, and yeah he set a high bar so his progression and growth obviously should lead to even higher. Stats are for the Marinos and Rivers' of the world. Not champions. Everybody saw it, he failed to take the next step of becoming a more surgical QB and reverted to more hero ball. He had more total turnovers despite all of the "gotta be smarter with the ball" rhetoric. He ran more often, despite all of the "gotta be more selective and protect myself" rhetoric. Allen is so athletic he can mask some of that slim margin of error over the long haul...but it tends to show itself in the playoffs.

[Goobylal]

Stats don't mean dick, and yeah he set a high bar so his progression and growth obviously should lead to even higher. Stats are for the Marinos and Rivers' of the world. Not champions. Everybody saw it, he failed to take the next step of becoming a more surgical QB and reverted to more hero ball. He had more total turnovers despite all of the "gotta be smarter with the ball" rhetoric. He ran more often, despite all of the "gotta be more selective and protect myself" rhetoric. Allen is so athletic he can mask some of that slim margin of error over the long haul...but it tends to show itself in the playoffs.

And you completely discount his supporting cast? I remember watching Kelly with a brick wall in front of him and receivers and RBs to drool over. And they lost 4 SBs.

[YardRat]

And you completely discount his supporting cast? I remember watching Kelly with a brick wall in front of him and receivers and RBs to drool over. And they lost 4 SBs.
No, Josh isn't 100% responsible. But he isn't removed from it, or above criticism.

[Goobylal]

No, Josh isn't 100% responsible. But he isn't removed from it, or above criticism.

When so much is put onto one player, he gets a ton of slack. His mobility the past few years have been the difference between winning and losing, because of the lack of quality on the OL.

[YardRat]

When so much is put onto one player, he gets a ton of slack. His mobility the past few years have been the difference between winning and losing, because of the lack of quality on the OL.

Yeah, he should get some slack. You never want to take out the gunslinger and recklessness completely, that's part of what makes him special. But he still needs to evolve, and he didn't last season. And even though he puts in the work and is committed, that's a result of not being committed enough.

[Goobylal]

Yeah, he should get some slack. You never want to take out the gunslinger and recklessness completely, that's part of what makes him special. But he still needs to evolve, and he didn't last season. And even though he puts in the work and is committed, that's a result of not being committed enough.

Evolve by taking short passes? He was doing that earlier in the year. Again I think the UCL injury affected him.

As for last year, it was a disaster from the off-season to the regular season. Yet they eked-out 13 wins despite the OL being a sieve, receivers dropping passes left and right, Dorsey learning and having injuries to key players and lesser-talented/rookie CBs starting on defense. They had no chance to make, much less win, the SB last year with everything that had gone on. Without Josh, this team is a .500 team at best and everyone needs to do better. Merely receivers catching passes (you know, what they get paid millions to do) would probably be enough. An OL that gives him enough time would be great as well.