View Full Version : Why did we abandon Josh under center?
We just came off 3 beautiful games where we seemed to redefine what our offense will be. Play action Josh was perfect. Run game was solid. So what do we do? Wait a sec........ "SLAMS HEAD ON DESK".......we come out in shotgun and try to run with no play action. Why? WHY? WHY?????. We ran a handful of plays with Josh under center and every running play from the shotgun failed. Why in ****ing hell would we do this?
kscdogbillsfan1221
10-08-2023, 12:14 PM
Why are you upset? The shotgun handoff on every ****ing first down isn’t totally predictable or anything..
sahlensguy
10-08-2023, 12:16 PM
Why are you upset? The shotgun handoff on every ****ing first down isn’t totally predictable or anything..
Great question. They looked nothing like they did against the Dolphins. Both in appearance and in execution.
Novacane
10-08-2023, 12:19 PM
Because our OC is a moron?
sukie
10-08-2023, 12:26 PM
Not like they had the personnel to stop last weeks game plan. The shotgun hand off never works unless the next play only works for 2nd and 9
Because our idiot OC thinks he’s the smartest person in the room.
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Which University of Miami alum/coach was dumber this weekend? Cristobal or Dorsey?
Thurmal
10-08-2023, 12:45 PM
A hallmark of Bills football for the last 20 years has been discovering strategies that are effective and then immediately abandoning said strategies. It's maddening.
notacon
10-08-2023, 12:52 PM
Seriously....the Buffalo Bills have some of the worst “fans” in the world. And too many of them poison this site, which is supposed to be a Bills fan site.
It’s not.
Like I said in another thread....."What’s worse is that you can’t even say they are “fair weather fans” because they are sour pusses even when the Bills win."
kscdogbillsfan1221
10-08-2023, 12:58 PM
Seriously....the Buffalo Bills have some of the worst “fans” in the world. And too many of them poison this site, which is supposed to be a Bills fan site.
It’s not.
Like I said in another thread....."What’s worse is that you can’t even say they are “fair weather fans” because they are sour pusses even when the Bills win."
I see nothing unreasonable being said In this thread
it is fair to criticize the team when they do something poorly
Woodman
10-08-2023, 01:01 PM
Poor decision for sure.
Thurmal
10-08-2023, 01:20 PM
Seriously....the Buffalo Bills have some of the worst “fans” in the world. And too many of them poison this site, which is supposed to be a Bills fan site.
It’s not.
Like I said in another thread....."What’s worse is that you can’t even say they are “fair weather fans” because they are sour pusses even when the Bills win."
1. You don't understand the definition of "fair-weather fan."
2. Being a good fan isn't contingent on never being upset with their performance.
Woodman
10-08-2023, 01:34 PM
Every party has a pooper ..... anybody ever sing that one?
Woodman
10-08-2023, 01:36 PM
If you gotta play in London get over there immediately .... Friday just didn't give the body clocks enough time. (pun intended)
**** the pond.
It’s impossible for Buffalo Bills fans to be fair weather, be it literally or figuratively
Woodman
10-08-2023, 01:44 PM
It’s impossible for Buffalo Bills fans to be fair weather, be it literally or figuratively
You would think that ..... but on this one you'd be wrong .....
You would think that ..... but on this one you'd be wrong .....
Explain, unless you’re referring to AFCE banners
Woodman
10-08-2023, 02:39 PM
Explain, unless you’re referring to AFCE banners
Trust me as a fan since 1960 we have fair weather fans just like every other team.
Trust me as a fan since 1960 we have fair weather fans just like every other team.
It’s not possible to be a fair weather Bills fan unless you started watching them when Allen was drafted. Even then, the choking since then can’t match the enmity and rage of a lifelong tortured Bills fan
Woodman
10-08-2023, 02:44 PM
Fair weather to me is quitting on your team going home early ..... I was a season ticket holder at War Memorial stadium and Rich stadium. We used to sing a little song to the quitters its a real thing.
Always :gobills:
Fair weather to me is quitting on your team going home early ..... I was a season ticket holder at War Memorial stadium and Rich stadium. We used to sing a little song to the quitters its a real thing.
Always :gobills:
To me a fair weather fan is one who enjoys when the team summits NFL Everest then bails when they’re no longer contending. We haven’t made it past base camp:rofl:
We just came off 3 beautiful games where we seemed to redefine what our offense will be. Play action Josh was perfect. Run game was solid. So what do we do? Wait a sec........ "SLAMS HEAD ON DESK".......we come out in shotgun and try to run with no play action. Why? WHY? WHY?????. We ran a handful of plays with Josh under center and every running play from the shotgun failed. Why in ****ing hell would we do this?
Miami, Washington and Las Vegas are all ranked in the 20's against the run. Jacksonville is 8th. Play action is only effective when your running game is a threat. We couldn't run on them....but...Jags were ranked in the 20's against the pass, so theoretically you worry them with the pass to set up the run.
Screen passes would have helped, or slice and dice up the middle. Jags had a suspect corner to be picked on, and their lb's are no great shakes in coverage. You'd think that could set up a great game for our TE's.
I dunno.
kingJofNYC
10-08-2023, 05:45 PM
Play action is only effective when your running game is a threat. We couldn't run on them....but...Jags were ranked in the 20's against the pass, so theoretically you worry them with the pass to set up the run.
Statistically this is not true, you can run playaction with mediocre run game. We can just look at the Tom Brady Pats, statistically some of the worst running teams but they ran the most playaction and were effective at it. When Daboll was here Bills were top 5 in playaction passes, Josh's numbers are great with a heavy PA game, and our running attack was trash during the Daboll years. So yeah, you can run PA even with a shaky ground game.
sukie
10-08-2023, 05:52 PM
It’s the turn and possible hand off that causes a short pause. That’s all play action needs to do. The run sets up play action is kinda wrong. Last week some of his fake handoffs were so bad yet his back to the D for that split second opened up routes just enough.
kingJofNYC
10-08-2023, 06:05 PM
It’s the turn and possible hand off that causes a short pause. That’s all play action needs to do. The run sets up play action is kinda wrong. Last week some of his fake handoffs were so bad yet his back to the D for that split second opened up routes just enough.
Exactly, any kind of ball action gets those linebackers and safeties to hesitate, and it's enough to open up some pass lanes. Look at all the jet motion stuff the Dolphins are using that throws teams off, the ball handling, and guys moving around can do enough to just get these defenders to stay flat footed for just an extra second to open things up.
Forward_Lateral
10-08-2023, 06:12 PM
To answer the original question: the same reason as always. Dorsey. They refuse to commit to the run other than token hand offs that lead to -2 yard plays
acehole
10-08-2023, 06:22 PM
Seriously....the Buffalo Bills have some of the worst “fans” in the world. And too many of them poison this site, which is supposed to be a Bills fan site.
It’s not.
Like I said in another thread....."What’s worse is that you can’t even say they are “fair weather fans” because they are sour pusses even when the Bills win."
Coming from the **** poster who said “we have a josh Allen problem” after one game?
Just wow.
Statistically this is not true, you can run playaction with mediocre run game. We can just look at the Tom Brady Pats, statistically some of the worst running teams but they ran the most playaction and were effective at it. When Daboll was here Bills were top 5 in playaction passes, Josh's numbers are great with a heavy PA game, and our running attack was trash during the Daboll years. So yeah, you can run PA even with a shaky ground game.
Well, we're not the Pats with Brady, and Allen is the same threat to run in play action or shotgun where he can see coverages.
Looking at successful PA QB's, I'm personally seeing a lot of QB's with top notch running games. Those are two examples, give me more to indicate some kind of pattern, because I genuinely don't know it. I just see outliers atm. Will be fine with being wrong, but I just don't see it.
Exactly, any kind of ball action gets those linebackers and safeties to hesitate, and it's enough to open up some pass lanes. Look at all the jet motion stuff the Dolphins are using that throws teams off, the ball handling, and guys moving around can do enough to just get these defenders to stay flat footed for just an extra second to open things up.
And it slows the pass rush as well because the lineman can't just tee off. It's what our approach should be every week forever and made Josh the hottest QB in the league 3 weeks straight. Then we abandon it for a shotgun that made us look like we did in week one. Just stupid. After one quarter they should have had enough sense to go back to it. Instead they try to be so clever.
sahlensguy
10-08-2023, 06:40 PM
To answer the original question: the same reason as always. Dorsey. They refuse to commit to the run other than token hand offs that lead to -2 yard plays
Don't forget handing it off on 2nd and long, out of the shotgun. Love those
kingJofNYC
10-08-2023, 06:44 PM
Well, we're not the Pats with Brady, and Allen is the same threat to run in play action or shotgun where he can see coverages.
Looking at successful PA QB's, I'm personally seeing a lot of QB's with top notch running games. Those are two examples, give me more to indicate some kind of pattern, because I genuinely don't know it. I just see outliers atm. Will be fine with being wrong, but I just don't see it.
I honestly want you to look at what the Bills did in the past actually. Check out these numbers from 2020, how good we were off playaction.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-offenses-generating-explosive-plays-kansas-city-chiefs-tampa-bay-buccaneers-2021
We were first in the league in playaction and ranked highly while passing off playaction, meanwhile our run game was in the bottom third of the league.
And we kept the pressure off Josh when running PA, just like Turf brings up in the post below yours. I'll see if I can dig up some more stuff late, my ass is too depressed with what went down injury wise the last two weeks. Just a damn shame.
sahlensguy
10-08-2023, 06:50 PM
Did we even run 12 personnel? Josh just wasn't under center much at all. They left that part of the playbook in the States. Setting them up for a rematch in the playoffs. :D
kingJofNYC
10-08-2023, 07:03 PM
Did we even run 12 personnel? Josh just wasn't under center much at all. They left that part of the playbook in the States. Setting them up for a rematch in the playoffs. :D
Yeah we did, not sure how much of it but they flex the TEs mostly instead of keeping them inline. That said, we barely targeted the TEs in years past, and I'm not sure the idea of targeting them more is showing up. If anything Knox is getting less work than ever before, it's frustrating and the experiment isn't really working. Just not enough balls to go around if you ask me.
kscdogbillsfan1221
10-08-2023, 07:39 PM
It is totally unclear why we seemingly abandoned what worked in the past today?
now I know the run game was less effective but putting josh under center and not running that stupid shotgun run would be great to start
Woodman
10-08-2023, 07:46 PM
It is totally unclear why we seemingly abandoned what worked in the past today?
now I know the run game was less effective but putting josh under center and not running that stupid shotgun run would be great to start
Leaves me scratching my head to.
Woodman
10-08-2023, 07:49 PM
This week against the Giants go ahead and start Cook ..... I love him off the bench .... I would start Harris no nonsense runner .... seems to always get positive yardage.
Positive yardage especially in the beginning is so important ..... Cook dances too much for me ..... this week he can probably get away with it.
I wish they would pay better attention to his rough starts.
Woodman
10-08-2023, 07:51 PM
Don't forget handing it off on 2nd and long, out of the shotgun. Love those
Just cringe when they do that.
Leaves me scratching my head to.
I think it's as simple as "everyone expects us to run 12 man so we'll fool them and while they gameplan against 12 man we'll throw them off by going shotgun". Instead they out thought themselves.
Just perfect 12 man and become an unstoppable machine.
Woodman
10-08-2023, 08:48 PM
I think it's as simple as "everyone expects us to run 12 man so we'll fool them and while they gameplan against 12 man we'll throw them off by going shotgun". Instead they out thought themselves.
Just perfect 12 man and become an unstoppable machine.
Could not agree more ..... think long think wrong.
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