Josh Allen = Michael Vick

[OpIv37]

Disclaimer: I'm not talking about dogfighting or who they are off the field. I'm simply talking about football.

When Michael Vick played, he was fun to watch. Why? Because he wasn't our QB. You knew something exciting was going to happen. Maybe he fumbles while trying to scramble. Maybe he runs for 25 yards on 3rd and 9. Maybe he hurls a 60 yard TD pass. Maybe he throws an INT into obvious double coverage. It's amazing to watch when you're not invested in the outcome.

Josh Allen has become the same player. You know something interesting will happen- you just don't know if it's going to be good or bad for the offense. It just really sucks when you ARE invested in the outcome.

[Thurmal]

Allen is markedly better than Vick ever was. This is ridiculous.

His real comp is someone like Warren Moon, if we're talking about greatness spliced with failure.

[Woodman]

Thurmal has it right.

[Chet]

Honestly, the comp we heard for a few years was Cam Newton and regrettably it’s coming to fruition, or at the very real risk of coming to fruition if the clowns are still coaching him. Josh has a lot more heart though, he would never shy away from diving on a fumble, and god knows with his ball security he would’ve been faced with the same situation

[Forward_Lateral]

This is the absolute stupidest thread in the history of Buffalo Bills message boards.

[Woodman]

This is the absolute stupidest thread in the history of Buffalo Bills message boards.

Now you know we have to have a nominating process to get through 1st.

So if you're still willing to nominate I'll 2nd it. :D

[OpIv37]

Allen is markedly better than Vick ever was. This is ridiculous.

His real comp is someone like Warren Moon, if we're talking about greatness spliced with failure.

By my count, Allen and Vick have the same number of conference championships and SB's.

- - - Updated - - -


This is the absolute stupidest thread in the history of Buffalo Bills message boards.

It's not. Allen gets mediocre results because as much bad as he does good. People want to blame Dorsey or the defense or whoever but so much of it is on Allen. He's just not consistent enough.

[Forward_Lateral]

By my count, Allen and Vick have the same number of conference championships and SB's.

You're a moron

[Forward_Lateral]

By my count, Allen and Vick have the same number of conference championships and SB's.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not. Allen gets mediocre results because as much bad as he does good. People want to blame Dorsey or the defense or whoever but so much of it is on Allen. He's just not consistent enough.

This thread, and reply just proves that you are nothing but an absolute troll. You picked Vick because you knew you'd get a reaction. Nobody that has ever watched the game of football make a Vick to Allen comparison. Nobody. You did it just to get a reaction, because you have nothing better to do in your sad life than to get a rise out of the 13 people that frequent this message board daily.

[OpIv37]

This thread, and reply just proves that you are nothing but an absolute troll. You picked Vick because you knew you'd get a reaction. Nobody that has ever watched the game of football make a Vick to Allen comparison. Nobody. You did it just to get a reaction, because you have nothing better to do in your sad life than to get a rise out of the 13 people that frequent this message board daily.

I ABSOLUTELY did no such thing. When Vick played, I liked to watch him for the reason I stated. You knew something interesting was going to happen. Allen has become the same way. He does great things, but he makes horrible decisions too. There was a time maybe 2 years ago when Allen would reliably come out and put up big numbers, but those days are gone. It's either really good or really bad and you don't know which one it will be.

[GreedoII]

Hot Take!!!!!

[notacon]

Another dumb thread from one of the resident sourpuss quitters. :rolleyes:

[mightysimi]

Career highs for Vick - 3303 passing yards and 21 TD passes, 9 Rushing TDs

Josh's career highs are 4544 yards and 37 touchdowns passes, 9 Rushing TDs

They aren't even in the same discussion.

Look at any advanced metric chart you want. Right now there are usually 3 names in the top right: Allen, Tua, Mahomes with Tua leading the way obviously.

If Vick had his best passing year last year, he would slot between Daniel Jones and Derek Carr.

This has got to be one of the biggest feelings over facts arguments ever.

[Novacane]

A blame Josh Allen thread after last night? You really don't know shut about football. I thought it may be an act. It's not. Fl is correct. The poster is a moron.

[sukie]

Career highs for Vick - 3303 passing yards and 21 TD passes, 9 Rushing TDs

Josh's career highs are 4544 yards and 37 touchdowns passes, 9 Rushing TDs

They aren't even in the same discussion.

Look at any advanced metric chart you want. Right now there are usually 3 names in the top right: Allen, Tua, Mahomes with Tua leading the way obviously.

If Vick had his best passing year last year, he would slot between Daniel Jones and Derek Carr.

This has got to be one of the biggest feelings over facts arguments ever.
Oh don’t you worry. This will be minimum 7 pages of a nameless someone trying to refute what you just wrote and every other valid and excellent comment you put forth later.

[OpIv37]

Career highs for Vick - 3303 passing yards and 21 TD passes, 9 Rushing TDs

Josh's career highs are 4544 yards and 37 touchdowns passes, 9 Rushing TDs

They aren't even in the same discussion.

Look at any advanced metric chart you want. Right now there are usually 3 names in the top right: Allen, Tua, Mahomes with Tua leading the way obviously.

If Vick had his best passing year last year, he would slot between Daniel Jones and Derek Carr.

This has got to be one of the biggest feelings over facts arguments ever.

I'm not talking about overall production. Obviously Josh is better in that regard. I'm talking about the ability to change the game with one play- positive or negative- at any time. When I watched Vick, I held my breath on every drop-back because at any given moment, something crazy could happen. Josh is the same way.

[Historian]

I think Josh is John Elway.

Cannon arm

Scrambling ability.

Throws on the run.

Take Elway off the Broncos and they were an 8-8 team during their first SB run.

Give Elway a legit run game, and he wins the SB.

[mightysimi]

I'm not talking about overall production. Obviously Josh is better in that regard. I'm talking about the ability to change the game with one play- positive or negative- at any time. When I watched Vick, I held my breath on every drop-back because at any given moment, something crazy could happen. Josh is the same way.
I guess I misunderstood you use of =. Because in no way are the equal other than in your feelings.

[Forward_Lateral]

I think Josh is John Elway.

Cannon arm

Scrambling ability.

Throws on the run.

Take Elway off the Broncos and they were an 8-8 team during their first SB run.

Give Elway a legit run game, and he wins the SB.
To me he's Elway mixed with Favre

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Yea. Agreed with op. He actually reminds me of Bubby brister. I mean, they both couldn’t lead their teams to championships. Even Trent dilfer and Brad Johnson did. So He’s obviously better and more accomplished than josh.

sigh and eyeroll…

[Mad Max]

To me he's Elway mixed with Favre

I was just gonna say if he said Favre he would have had more of a case.

[Mr. Pink]

Vick was a better runner than Allen. Vick had a stronger arm. Vick was a better athlete. Allen is a better passer.

And the difference between Vick and Allen on where Vick was better is much slimmer than the difference between Allen and Vick as passers.

Allen is the better QB.

Allen reminds me a lot of John Elway and is forced to do a lot of the same things Elway had to do early in his career with Denver. The difference between the two is Elway actually carried a pretty weak Bronco squad in 86 and 87 to the Super Bowl. Allen has not carried us to a Super Bowl yet.

[sahlensguy]

JA 56/27 win/loss

MV 76/66 win/loss

No contest. Josh Allen wins much more than he loses compared to Vick.

[OpIv37]

All I’m saying is that there is a similarity in how feels to watch them. You hold your breath every time they drop back because you know something interesting is going to happen. You know they’re both capable of doing amazing things but you can’t trust either one to protect the ball.

[DraftBoy]

I watched Vick up close for years in Atlanta, there is absolutely no comparison here.

[Woodman]

None whatsoever.

[YardRat]

I agree with pretty much everybody else, the two aren't comparable at all. Even arm strength, Allen has it over Vick.

[Woodman]

By a country mile.

[OpIv37]

I agree with pretty much everybody else, the two aren't comparable at all. Even arm strength, Allen has it over Vick.

Once again, I’m talking about how it feels to watch them, knowing they can do something amazing or turn the ball over at any second.

[Woodman]

JA 56/27 win/loss

MV 76/66 win/loss

No contest. Josh Allen wins much more than he loses compared to Vick.

nuff said! :cheers:

[sahlensguy]

Once again, I’m talking about how it feels to watch them, knowing they can do something amazing or turn the ball over at any second.

Yeah but the results. JA has a much higher win % than Vick, so the amazing stuff means more for JA as do his misques mean less.

[MikeInRoch]

It just really sucks when you ARE invested in the outcome.

I suppose you'd rather just cut him then and move on, if it sucks so much to watch him.

[Woodman]

I supposed you'd rather just cut him then and move on, if it sucks so much to watch him.

:rofl:

[sahlensguy]

MV: 143 gp, 169 tds, 105 tos

JA: 85 gp, 198 tds, 82 tos

You decide.

[Woodman]

MV: 143 gp, 169 tds, 105 tos

JA: 85 gp, 198 tds, 82 tos

You decide.

I'm convinced !! :cheers:

[OpIv37]

I suppose you'd rather just cut him then and move on, if it sucks so much to watch him.

No. All of us lived through the drought years. We know we could do a lot worse. But he’ll never win a Super Bowl.

[OpIv37]

MV: 143 gp, 169 tds, 105 tos

JA: 85 gp, 198 tds, 82 tos

You decide.

82 turnovers in 85 games is .96 turnovers per game.

105 turnovers in 143 games is only .73 turnovers a game.

By your own numbers, Josh turns it over more.

[sahlensguy]

No. All of us lived through the drought years. We know we could do a lot worse. But he’ll never win a Super Bowl.

Oh, just go away...

[sahlensguy]

82 turnovers in 85 games is .96 turnovers per game.

105 turnovers in 143 games is only .73 turnovers a game.

By your own numbers, Josh turns it over more.

TD to turnover ratio isn't even close. Neither is their winning %. Considering the Bill's are heavily Josh-centric, that high winning % is mostly thanks to Josh.

Any other complaints?

[Woodman]

Oh, just go away...

What a pain in the do by osh this guy :rofl:

[Woodman]

TD to turnover ratio isn't even close. Neither is their winning %. Considering the Bill's are heavily Josh-centric, that high winning % is mostly thanks to Josh.

Any other complaints?

Did you just ask that ? :snicker:

[Woodman]

82 turnovers in 85 games is .96 turnovers per game.

105 turnovers in 143 games is only .73 turnovers a game.

By your own numbers, Josh turns it over more.

19925

don't forget the partridge in the pear tree.

[OpIv37]

TD to turnover ratio isn't even close. Neither is their winning %. Considering the Bill's are heavily Josh-centric, that high winning % is mostly thanks to Josh.

Any other complaints?
And when we never finish the job, Josh’s turnovers are usually the reason why. You’re literally proving my point. He has a lot of touchdowns but he has a lot of turnovers. When he drops back, you know something is going to happen, just like Vick.

Is Josh better than Vick? Yes, but watching the two is equally as nerve-racking.

[sahlensguy]

And when we never finish the job, Josh’s turnovers are usually the reason why. You’re literally proving my point. He has a lot of touchdowns but he has a lot of turnovers. When he drops back, you know something is going to happen, just like Vick.

Is Josh better than Vick? Yes, but watching the two is equally as nerve-racking.

When they both drop back, they can both be electric. Vick put up empty stats compared to Allen. Josh's tds are more meaningful. And if either QB has to carry their team through the season and into the playoffs on his back, it's Allen. All day long.

[OpIv37]

When they both drop back, they can both be electric. Vick put up empty stats compared to Allen. Josh's tds are more meaningful. And if either QB has to carry their team through the season and into the playoffs on his back, it's Allen. All day long.

And…. You’re still missing the point. None of that makes watching Allen any less stressful.

[Dr. Lecter]

Vick's career Int % - 2.74%

Allen's career Int % - 2.38 %

Vick's career TD% - 4.13%

Allen's careet TD% - 5.43%

Also the same number of championships is meaningless with Vick having played 13 seasons as compared to Allen's 5

Maybe you perceive them as the same - but the numbers and actual results are much different.

Vick has a higher career INT rate and lower career TD rate.

[Ingtar33]

comparing allen to vick is such an insult to allen.

the better comparison is to elway or favre. he's basically identical to elway with a bit of favre's gunslinger mentality mixed in.

and he's being asked to carry a team far harder then either of them.

[Dr. Lecter]

And…. You’re still missing the point. None of that makes watching Allen any less stressful.


That is a different claim than comparing him to Vick

[sahlensguy]

And…. You’re still missing the point. None of that makes watching Allen any less stressful.

Why not. His winning % is way higher. More wins are gauranteed.

[Goobylal]

Dumbest thread maybe ever.

[OpIv37]

That is a different claim than comparing him to Vick

That’s the reason why I was comparing him to Vick.

- - - Updated - - -


Why not. His winning % is way higher. More wins are gauranteed.

But the big wins are not guaranteed cuz he always makes the big mistakes.

[Mr. Pink]

comparing allen to vick is such an insult to allen.

the better comparison is to elway or favre. he's basically identical to elway with a bit of favre's gunslinger mentality mixed in.

and he's being asked to carry a team far harder then either of them.

Elway in the 80s had nothing offensively.

Allen has Diggs to throw the ball to. Elways leading receiver in 86 was RB Gerald Wilhite. 87? Vance Johnson with a whopping 42 catches. Then there's Mark Jackson that I'm sure some will remember...he had a combined 92 catches the 3 years the Broncos went to the Super Bowl in the 80s.

How about that running game? Sammy Winder led the way, all the while not even averaging 4 ypc.

John Elway was that Broncos entire offense.

[Ingtar33]

Elway in the 80s had nothing offensively.

Allen has Diggs to throw the ball to. Elways leading receiver in 86 was RB Gerald Wilhite. 87? Vance Johnson with a whopping 42 catches. Then there's Mark Jackson that I'm sure some will remember...he had a combined 92 catches the 3 years the Broncos went to the Super Bowl in the 80s.

How about that running game? Sammy Winder led the way, all the while not even averaging 4 ypc.

John Elway was that Broncos entire offense.

yeah, but he had a **** conference to get through. the AFC was BAD when he was getting to superbowls. take a look at who he played in the playoffs. the best team was the mediocre Browns... who wasn't in the class of any of the playoff teams in the NFC (in the 80's those 90's broncos were great)

Sure, elways had to carry the broncos, but it wasn't a heavy load. I remember watching those seasons personally. I'm sure there are others on this board old enough to remember 80's football. Allen has to carry his squad against insane level of competition. the top 10 teams in the AFC are probably the strongest i've ever seen in a conference in my life the past 5 years.

[YardRat]

Once again, I’m talking about how it feels to watch them, knowing they can do something amazing or turn the ball over at any second.
The only thing amazing Vick had the potential for was using his legs, not his arm. He didn't have anywhere near the play-making ability with his passing game that Allen has, not even close.

[Goobylal]

The only thing amazing Vick had the potential for was using his legs, not his arm. He didn't have anywhere near the play-making ability with his passing game that Allen has, not even close.

Yup. Vick was a terrible passer. He had a career 56.2% completion rate and only posted 2 seasons out of 13 with a completion rate above 60%. That's why this thread is dumb. If anything, Lamar is Vick.

[Woodman]

It just really sucks when you are invested in the outcome.



Maybe if instead of when should be used in the case of some. :idunno:

[Woodman]

Yup. Vick was a terrible passer. He had a career 56.2% completion rate and only posted 2 seasons out of 13 with a completion rate above 60%. That's why this thread is dumb. If anything, Lamar is Vick.

Lamar is a much better comparison.

[Mad Max]

Yup. Vick was a terrible passer. He had a career 56.2% completion rate and only posted 2 seasons out of 13 with a completion rate above 60%. That's why this thread is dumb. If anything, Lamar is Vick.
That’s even an insult to Lamar (who overall is much better than Vick). That’s how ridiculous the comparison to Josh is.

[OpIv37]

That’s even an insult to Lamar (who overall is much better than Vick). That’s how ridiculous the comparison to Josh is.

Once again, the comparison is not in ability. It’s that they both have the same lack of ability to protect the ball so every drop-back is nerve-racking.

[sahlensguy]

Once again, the comparison is not in ability. It’s that they both have the same lack of ability to protect the ball so every drop-back is nerve-racking.

So now you're changing the goalposts. Figures ...

It was about electrifying plays, both positive and negative.

Now it's about the negative.

[OpIv37]

So now you're changing the goalposts. Figures ...

It was about electrifying plays, both positive and negative.

Now it's about the negative.

What do you mean, changing the goalposts? It’s what I said from the beginning. I just tried to phrase it slightly differently because so many people here had their brains break because someone pointed out something negative about their hero.

[sahlensguy]

What do you mean, changing the goalposts? It’s what I said from the beginning. I just tried to phrase it slightly differently because so many people here had their brains break because someone pointed out something negative about their hero.

You're OP was about bot positive and negative plays. Now you were saying your point is about negative plays. That's not rephrasing the OP, it's changing your point.

[OpIv37]

Btw, I should point this out: based on the numbers that were presented earlier in this thread, Josh’s career average is .96 turnovers per game. He has 8 INT’s and 2 fumbles through 8 games this year, so that number is getting worse, not better.

I honestly can’t believe I’m the only one here who holds my breath ever time it’s 3rd and 9, because I don’t know if Josh is gonna scramble for 25 yards and the 1st, or throw 40 yards downfield into double coverage instead of taking the open man right at the sticks.

[sahlensguy]

Btw, I should point this out: based on the numbers that were presented earlier in this thread, Josh’s career average is .96 turnovers per game. He has 8 INT’s and 2 fumbles through 8 games this year, so that number is getting worse, not better.

I honestly can’t believe I’m the only one here who holds my breath ever time it’s 3rd and 9, because I don’t know if Josh is gonna scramble for 25 yards and the 1st, or throw 40 yards downfield into double coverage instead of taking the open man right at the sticks.

So I guess you've stopped defending your op and are resorting to criticizing Josh by making a new point to save face.

[Goobylal]

Once again, the comparison is not in ability. It’s that they both have the same lack of ability to protect the ball so every drop-back is nerve-racking.

Huh? He's cut his fumbles way down. As for the INTs, the one against the Bucs was pure luck. Usually those get deflected harmlessly back towards the QB, not back to a mass of humanity, one with no Bills players looking to knock the ball down. Vick was a nerve-racking because he was such a bad passer.

[OpIv37]

Huh? He's cut his fumbles way down. As for the INTs, the one against the Bucs was pure luck. Usually those get deflected harmlessly back towards the QB, not back to a mass of humanity, one with no Bills players looking to knock the ball down. Vick was a nerve-racking because he was such a bad passer.

His career average for turnovers is .96 a game. This year, he has 10 turnovers in just 8 games. So, his turnover numbers are actually going up.

[OpIv37]

So I guess you've stopped defending your op and are resorting to criticizing Josh by making a new point to save face.

Huh? It’s the exact point I was making in my original post.

[sukie]

His career average for turnovers is .96 a game. This year, he has 10 turnovers in just 8 games. So, his turnover numbers are actually going up.

after game one his turnovers have trended sharply down

[Typ0]

Is this thread serious?

[sahlensguy]

Is this thread serious?

No

[OpIv37]

Is this thread serious?

Yes. Just no one gets it. I said years ago on this board that Michael Vick was fun to watch because you know something interesting was gonna happen- you just didn’t know if it was going to be good or bad for him.

Josh Allen is the same way. If anything, that affect is amplified with Allen because he turns the ball over more than Vick (on a turnovers per game average) but also scores more touchdowns.

Except it isn’t fun cuz I didn’t care about the outcome with Vick. I do with Allen.

I’m absolutely shocked that no one else can see that similarity.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Lamar is a much better comparison.

Disagree

lamar Is WAY better than Vick was

poor comparison there too in my opinion

they are both black and fast. The results are far different

[Forward_Lateral]

Once again, everyone in this thread is wrong, misses the point, and Opi is right.

[OpIv37]

Once again, everyone in this thread is wrong, misses the point, and Opi is right.

You really don’t hold your breath every time Josh drops back just like when Vick played? Do you even watch the Bills? Do you even know how many touchdowns and turnovers Josh is responsible for.

[OpIv37]

Josh is responsible for a lot of good. He’s responsible for a lot of bad too. I think many of you don’t want to accept that.

[Typ0]

Once again, everyone in this thread is wrong, misses the point, and Opi is right.

It is his thread.

[Forward_Lateral]

You really don’t hold your breath every time Josh drops back just like when Vick played? Do you even watch the Bills? Do you even know how many touchdowns and turnovers Josh is responsible for.

I haven’t missed a second of a Bills game in 20 years.

No, I don’t hold my breath every time he drops back. I expect home to complete a pass.

[Woodman]

You really don’t hold your breath every time Josh drops back
Hell no it's the best part of the game.

[Woodman]

Disagree

lamar Is WAY better than Vick was

poor comparison there too in my opinion

they are both black and fast. The results are far different



Speed gets them both out of bad situations .... Lamar has the better escapability skill.

Vick is far less comparable to Josh .... Josh does not have the wheels either of them possess.

Josh is just scarier to tackle.

[Woodman]

I’m absolutely shocked that no one else can see that similarity.
Why do you suppose that is?

Because you're wrong they are nothing alike.

[OpIv37]

I haven’t missed a second of a Bills game in 20 years.

No, I don’t hold my breath every time he drops back. I expect home to complete a pass.

Then you clearly don’t watch the games, because if you did, you’d know he also leads the league in turnovers over the past 5 years.

Your mentality completely ignores how likely he is to commit a turnover.

[Goobylal]

His career average for turnovers is .96 a game. This year, he has 10 turnovers in just 8 games. So, his turnover numbers are actually going up.

Josh's TD:TO ratio is 2.2. Vick's was 1.31.

[OpIv37]

Josh's TD:TO ratio is 2.2. Vick's was 1.31.

Ok. Allen scores more touchdowns than Vick but also commits more turnovers. If anything, that amplifies the effect I am talking about.

[Goobylal]

Ok. Allen scores more touchdowns than Vick but also commits more turnovers. If anything, that amplifies the effect I am talking about.

Huh? Where did you get "commits more turnovers"? And a TD is points definitely scored while a turnover is not necessarily points surrendered. And it's a game of points.

[OpIv37]

Huh? Where did you get "commits more turnovers"? And a TD is points definitely scored while a turnover is not necessarily points surrendered. And it's a game of points.
The numbers were already posted earlier in this thread. Allen averages .96 turnovers per game. Vick averaged .74 turnovers per game.

More touchdowns and more turnovers from Allen compared to Vick. Again, it amplifies the effect.

[Goobylal]

The numbers were already posted earlier in this thread. Allen averages .96 turnovers per game. Vick averaged .74 turnovers per game.

More touchdowns and more turnovers from Allen compared to Vick. Again, it amplifies the effect.

More TDs is far more important. For every turnover, Josh has .9 more TDs than Vick. Again, that's a definite score whereas a TO is not. Never mind that he throws for more yards than Vick could ever dream of because he was so inaccurate.

[OpIv37]

More TDs is far more important. For every turnover, Josh has .9 more TDs than Vick. Again, that's a definite score whereas a TO is not. Never mind that he throws for more yards than Vick could ever dream of because he was so inaccurate.

Ok. That was THE WHOLE ****ING POINT of this thread. There’s a high chance that something exciting will happen, be it a turnover or a touchdown.

[sahlensguy]

:Facepalm:

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

This whole thread screams of ‘look at meeeeeeeee!’

[Typ0]

I like to watch porn because it's entertaining.

Debbie Hooters == Josh Allen.

Don't think so....

[sahlensguy]

Debbie Hooters == Josh Allen.

Never heard of it. A hot mess?

[Goobylal]

Ok. That was THE WHOLE ****ING POINT of this thread. There’s a high chance that something exciting will happen, be it a turnover or a touchdown.

Vick was a RB playing QB. All anyone ever watched him for was to see what exciting plays he'd make with his legs. No one watched to see what he could do with his arm because he was a terrible passer. And no one watched to see if he'd turn the the ball over. I have no idea where that comparison with Josh came from and it's just really dumb.

[Typ0]

Vick was still a QB who ran around. As a running back he wasn't going to stick it up in there with any seriousness he was going to run around and make people miss.

Josh Allen is a fullback in every sense of the word. Plus, he throws a better ball than anyone ever. He's got to slow down more. His processing gets moving too fast and it hurts everyone.

If Allen is == to Vick he might as well buy a 40FFF bra for the next outing though ....

[Forward_Lateral]

Then you clearly don’t watch the games, because if you did, you’d know he also leads the league in turnovers over the past 5 years.

Your mentality completely ignores how likely he is to commit a turnover.

He’s also more likely to complete a pass, throw a TD or run for a first down.

Please shut up and go away.

[gr8slayer]

Allen is an elite QB, Vick was an elite runner.

[Prov401]

To me he's Elway mixed with Favre

This.

[ticatfan]

Once again, I’m talking about how it feels to watch them, knowing they can do something amazing or turn the ball over at any second.

I understood what you were getting at. And you are right, you never know what they are going to do.

[OpIv37]

He’s also more likely to complete a pass, throw a TD or run for a first down.

Please shut up and go away.

The mistake I made was the thread title. I said Allen was equal to Vick, which is not true. Clearly he’s better. But I stand by the intent of my statement, even though I didn’t articulate it well.

I should have called the thread something like “The Michael Vick effect”, restated when I said years ago about watching Vick, and saying that watching Allen makes me feel the same way.

Yes, Allen will get touchdowns. But he can’t be trusted to protect the ball. He leads the league in turnovers over the last 5 years.

[sahlensguy]

The mistake I made was the thread title. I said Allen was equal to Vick, which is not true. Clearly he’s better. But I stand by the intent of my statement, even though I didn’t articulate it well.

I should have called the thread something like “The Michael Vick effect”, restated when I said years ago about watching Vick, and saying that watching Allen makes me feel the same way.

Yes, Allen will get touchdowns. But he can’t be trusted to protect the ball. He leads the league in turnovers over the last 5 years.

Allen's win % is way better than Vick's. His turnovers aren't as costly as Vick's.

[OpIv37]

Allen's win % is way better than Vick's. His turnovers aren't as costly as Vick's.

They’re costly enough to keep us from winning anything other than the division. They’re costly enough to have us behind the Fish, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and Jags in the AFC.

[sahlensguy]

They’re costly enough to keep us from winning anything other than the division. They’re costly enough to have us behind the Fish, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and Jags in the AFC.

Josh is the only reason we've been as good as we've been. Tough to blame him for our failures. But of course you will. Mike Vick couldn't hold Josh jock.

[OpIv37]

Josh is the only reason we've been as good as we've been. Tough to blame him for our failures. But of course you will. Mike Vick couldn't hold Josh jock.

Homer statement. Josh’s turnovers hold this team back.

[Goobylal]

Homer statement. Josh’s turnovers hold this team back.

LOL! You know nothing about football.

[Woodman]

Josh is the only reason we've been as good as we've been. Tough to blame him for our failures. But of course you will. Mike Vick couldn't hold Josh jock.

Right on! :10:

[sahlensguy]

Homer statement. Josh’s turnovers hold this team back.

The Bill's high winning % is mostly because of Josh.

Turnovers hold every team back.

What's you're point?

[OpIv37]

The Bill's high winning % is mostly because of Josh.

Turnovers hold every team back.

What's your point?
If Josh committed fewer turnovers, we wouldn’t be behind the Fish, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and Jags.

[sahlensguy]

If Josh committed fewer turnovers, we wouldn’t be behind the Fish, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and Jags.

Why? Mahomes, Tua, Burrows, Jackson, or Lawrence don't turn the ball over?

[sahlensguy]

If Josh committed fewer turnovers, we wouldn’t be behind the Fish, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and Jags.

Why? Mahomes, Tua, Burrows, Jackson, or Lawrence don't turn the ball over?

And why did Vick get left out? Oh yeah, he wasn't in Josh s league.

[OpIv37]

Why? Mahomes, Tua, Burrows, Jackson, or Lawrence don't turn the ball over?

And why did Vick get left out? Oh yeah, he wasn't in Josh s league.

They don’t lead the league in turnovers over the last 5 years like Josh does. And the point remains. Vick and Josh are the same in the sense that every time they drop back, there is a high likelihood that something interesting will happen. You just don’t know if it will be good or bad.

[Woodman]

Why? Mahomes, Tua, Burrows, Jackson, or Lawrence don't turn the ball over?

And why did Vick get left out? Oh yeah, he wasn't in Josh s league.

[Goobylal]

Why? Mahomes, Tua, Burrows, Jackson, or Lawrence don't turn the ball over?

And why did Vick get left out? Oh yeah, he wasn't in Josh s league.

Jackson, Lawrence and Tua haven't gone far in the playoffs. I don't expect that to change much this year. Mahomes obviously has but today was a terrible game for him and they look like they're on the downswing. Burrow has gone far but he's had a far healthier team around him the past few years.

[OpIv37]

Jackson, Lawrence and Tua haven't gone far in the playoffs. I don't expect that to change much this year. Mahomes obviously has but today was a terrible game for him and they look like they're on the downswing. Burrow has gone far but he's had a far healthier team around him the past few years.

And all of them are still ahead of us in the standings.

[sahlensguy]

And all of them are still ahead of us in the standings.

Yeah well, I can't fix that for you. You're on your own to being less miserable.

[Goobylal]

And all of them are still ahead of us in the standings.

...and? Is the season over yet? No, it's not.

[Ingtar33]

19928

guess the qb
the rows are year.

small hint, that's the whole QB's career not a snip

[OpIv37]

...and? Is the season over yet? No, it's not.

Technically, no. Realistically, yes. There are at least 5 teams in the AFC ahead of us. We MIGHT overtake one or two. There is no objective reason to believe we can overtake all 5.

[Ingtar33]

19928

guess the qb
the rows are year.

small hint, that's the whole QB's career not a snip

sorry ESPN is broken, just realized how wrong those numbers were

Rating / QBR:
67.9 / 49.8
85.3 / 49.4
107.2 / 76.6
92.2 / 66.3
96.6 / 73.4
101.5 / 77.1

my point is ja is having his best year since 2020, and frankly, his QBR and Rating have been trending up every single year of his career except for that outlier in 2020, and we're having a stupid debate about him not being enough, and never winning the superbowl. christ this is stupid; JA is top 5 in every QB stat this year. you know who isn't? Mahomes, Burrow. guess its time for the chiefs to cut Mahomes he'll never do it again.

[Goobylal]

Technically, no. Realistically, yes. There are at least 5 teams in the AFC ahead of us. We MIGHT overtake one or two. There is no objective reason to believe we can overtake all 5.

Please. Just a few weeks ago Miami was a juggernaut and then they started playing real teams and losing. Same for the 49'ers.

[Woodman]

And all of them are still ahead of us in the standings.

It's always the bright side with you. :band:

[Woodman]

Please. Just a few weeks ago Miami was a juggernaut and then they started playing real teams and losing. Same for the 49'ers.
The 49ers lose one key guy .... Deebo .... and they turn completely pedestrian.

[Woodman]

Technically, no. Realistically, yes. There are at least 5 teams in the AFC ahead of us. We MIGHT overtake one or two. There is no objective reason to believe we can overtake all 5.

5 you say could you please pass some of that **** over here. :funny:

[sahlensguy]

5 you say could you please pass some of that **** over here. :funny:

:pass:

[OpIv37]

5 you say could you please pass some of that **** over here. :funny:

https://www.nfl.com/standings/conference/2023/REG

Fish, Chiefs, Ravens, Jags, all objectively ahead of us in the standings. That is undeniable fact.

The only reason the Bengals are behind us is because they’ve already had their bye. They’ll be ahead of us when they beat us on Sunday.

[Woodman]

https://www.nfl.com/standings/conference/2023/REG

Fish, Chiefs, Ravens, Jags, all objectively ahead of us in the standings. That is undeniable fact.


You said 5 ......... actual facts you are wrong .... just keeping it real for yah.

[OpIv37]

You said 5 ......... actual facts you are wrong .... just keeping it real for yah.

I was only off by 1.

[sahlensguy]

I know it's hard.

19930

[OpIv37]

I know it's hard.

19930

Point remains. We aren’t catching the 4 that are already ahead of us and at least one more that will be ahead of us after this weekend.

[sahlensguy]

Point remains. We aren’t catching the 4 that are already ahead of us and at least one more that will be ahead of us after this weekend.

And it's on Josh Allen. You are truly a joke.

[Forward_Lateral]

Point remains. We aren’t catching the 4 that are already ahead of us and at least one more that will be ahead of us after this weekend.

Stop saying "We". You are not part of the team. You are a fan, and even that is questionable.

[Woodman]

I was only off by 1.

That one makes all the difference .....

19931

[OpIv37]

Stop saying "We". You are not part of the team. You are a fan, and even that is questionable.

Who cares? Lots of people say “we” even though they’re not actually on the team.

- - - Updated - - -


And it's on Josh Allen. You are truly a joke.

It’s not just on him but his turnovers are a big reason why.

[sahlensguy]

It’s not just on him but his turnovers are a big reason why.

The, (1, 2, 3...5) 5 wins are mostly because of Josh.

You're a glass half empty guy or a glass 3/8 empty guy, if I'm doing my math right.

[OpIv37]

The, (1, 2, 3...5) 5 wins are mostly because of Josh.

You're a glass half empty guy or a glass 3/8 empty guy, if I'm doing my math right.

It doesn’t matter. The TO’s negate the TD’s enough that we can’t keep up with the big boys. Josh Allen will never win a SB. I doubt he’ll ever even make it to one.

[sahlensguy]

It doesn’t matter. The TO’s negate the TD’s enough that we can’t keep up with the big boys. Josh Allen will never win a SB. I doubt he’ll ever even make it to one.

If JA gets a great team around him, would you change your mind?

[OpIv37]

If JA gets a great team around him, would you change your mind?

Maybe, but he won’t. The 13 seconds team was the best team he’ll ever have. The cap- including his salary- is gonna catch up with us soon. And by the time we recover, Josh will be too old to perform as he does now.

And that 13 seconds team was lucky with injuries. We won’t have that much luck with injuries again.

[Goobylal]

The 49ers lose one key guy .... Deebo .... and they turn completely pedestrian.

Yup.


I know it's hard.

19930

Too funny.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm glad to see this thread went from OPI making an absolute absurd statement, to backpedalling, to now saying Josh Allen stinks, and his turn overs are the reason they haven't won a superbowl.

This is epic.

[OpIv37]

I'm glad to see this thread went from OPI making an absolute absurd statement, to backpedalling, to now saying Josh Allen stinks, and his turn overs are the reason they haven't won a superbowl.

This is epic.

That’s absolutely not what happened or what I said. And once again, if you don’t see how his turnovers are a big part of this team’s problems, then you don’t watch the games.

[Forward_Lateral]

That’s absolutely not what happened or what I said. And once again, if you don’t see how his turnovers are a big part of this team’s problems, then you don’t watch the games.
I love it when you say "You don't watch the games." There's clearly one person in this thread that doesn't watch the games, and it's not me.

Again, it's absolutely what you said. I will no longer respond to you, because I am putting you on ignore, like the rest of the forum should, because your posts are nothing but a waste of both bandwidth and time.

Do yourself a favor and find something in your life that makes you happy, because clearly watching football isn't it.

What an absolute douchecannon

[OpIv37]

I love it when you say "You don't watch the games." There's clearly one person in this thread that doesn't watch the games, and it's not me.

Again, it's absolutely what you said. I will no longer respond to you, because I am putting you on ignore, like the rest of the forum should, because your posts are nothing but a waste of both bandwidth and time.

Do yourself a favor and find something in your life that makes you happy, because clearly watching football isn't it.

What an absolute douchecannon
How can a fan possibly be happy with this level of underperformance?

[sahlensguy]

How can a fan possibly be happy with this level of underperformance?

Gee idk how they do it. But they do.

Maybe be a glass 5/8 full person and not a glass 3/8 empty one.

It's not rocket science.

[OpIv37]

Gee idk how they do it. But they do.

Maybe be a glass 5/8 full person and not a glass 3/8 empty one.

It's not rocket science.

If you only get 5/8 of the fluid you need, you’re still gonna be thirsty.

If you have to drive 400 miles and you only have 5/8 of a tank, you’re gonna end up stuck on the side of the road.

Sometimes 5/8 isn’t enough.

[sahlensguy]

If you only get 5/8 of the fluid you need, you’re still gonna be thirsty.

If you have to drive 400 miles and you only have 5/8 of a tank, you’re gonna end up stuck on the side of the road.

Sometimes 5/8 isn’t enough.

It's a football game. You won't die of thirst or run out of gas if you look at the glass 5/8 full. But if you don't want to see it that way, it can make you miserable.

So that's how some those happy fans do it. They don't take it so seriously, because it's not so serious. But you do you

[OpIv37]

It's a football game. You won't die of thirst or run out of gas if you look at the glass 5/8 full. But if you don't want to see it that way, it can make you miserable.

So that's how some those happy fans do it. They don't take it so seriously, because it's not so serious. But you do you

And?

People here seem to think that if something is supposed to be entertainment, it’s always going to be good. That’s not how the real world works.

Sometimes the picnic gets rained out.
Sometimes a long anticipated movie turns out to suck.
Sometimes your favorite TV show makes a boring episode.
Sometimes the food or service at the restaurant isn’t good.
Sometimes your sports teams underperform. And if you’re on a message board devoted to that team, it’s dishonest and inaccurate to discuss the team without discussing their flaws.

Deal with it.

[sahlensguy]

And?

People here seem to think that if something is supposed to be entertainment, it’s always going to be good. That’s not how the real world works.

Sometimes the picnic gets rained out.
Sometimes a long anticipated movie turns out to suck.
Sometimes your favorite TV show makes a boring episode.
Sometimes the food or service at the restaurant isn’t good.
Sometimes your sports teams underperform. And if you’re on a message board devoted to that team, it’s dishonest and inaccurate to discuss the team without discussing their flaws.

Deal with it.

If you are truly hoping to look at this game in a more positive light, you need to open to it and not stuck in your ways. I didn't say it's always going to be good. Maybe that was an oversight on your part, or you are just being disingenuous.

I said to look at the glass 5/8 full, not 8/8 full. You are still looking at it 3/8 full. A path to happiness and success followed by no one.

[OpIv37]

If you are truly hoping to look at this game in a more positive light, you need to open to it and not stuck in your ways. I didn't say it's always going to be good. Maybe that was an oversight on your part, or you are just being disingenuous.

I said to look at the glass 5/8 full, not 8/8 full. You are still looking at it 3/8 full. A path to happiness and success followed by no one.

See, the problem is that how I look at it vs how you look at it doesn’t matter. 5/8 full isn’t full. 3/8 empty isn’t full. Perspective doesn’t change the fundamental nature.

[notacon]

It's a football game. You won't die of thirst or run out of gas if you look at the glass 5/8 full. But if you don't want to see it that way, it can make you miserable.

So that's how some those happy fans do it. They don't take it so seriously, because it's not so serious. But you do you

Spot on. Opposed to Dani Rojas' constant proclamation that "football is life"....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FDFBG7_0H5I?si=3A4wrA8uMkDCXJAj" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Until he kills the team's mascot greyhound with a penalty shot....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-tGWLXYNCZ8?si=owiFzfmgMmHHfYJv&start=65" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Then goes into as funk and has nightmares that "football is DEATH"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/83HuNj4hByg?si=9dHf-4Rs_DZIG668" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>



....is (of course) an apropos parody on over-the-top standing sports are sometimes unrealistically held up to in life. Not for me. I have my priorities sorted out where "football is NOT life"....

When the Bills disappoint and lose the last game of the playoffs (like they did FOUR times in the SB years) it stings for a week or so, and then life goes on, and then I look forward to the next season.

WHEN the Bills finally WIN a SB, it will be great for a week or so, and then life goes on, then I will look forward to the next season.

[sukie]

This reminds me of that classic thread “Nathan Peterman = Chad Henne” . Which was based on the ever popular “Kelly Holcomb=Byron Leftwich”.

[sahlensguy]

See, the problem is that how I look at it vs how you look at it doesn’t matter. 5/8 full isn’t full. 3/8 empty isn’t full. Perspective doesn’t change the fundamental nature.

Of course the fundamental nature doesn't change. It is what it is. Nothing we do will change how they play. The only thing we can affect is how we choose to look at it.

You choose to look at the glass 3/8 empty and then ask, 'How can a fan possibly be happy with this level of underperformance?" The answer is that it is how the fan chooses to percieves that what they can not affect. They look at the glass as 5/8 full.

So, either you are unwilling to change and want to be miserable, or you are just being disingenuous about the whole thing.

[OpIv37]

Of course the fundamental nature doesn't change. It is what it is. Nothing we do will change how they play. The only thing we can affect is how we choose to look at it.

You choose to look at the glass 3/8 empty and then ask, 'How can a fan possibly be happy with this level of underperformance?" The answer is that it is how the fan chooses to percieves that what they can not affect. They look at the glass as 5/8 full.

So, either you are unwilling to change and want to be miserable, or you are just being disingenuous about the whole thing.

Miserable? That’s the other thing. Frustration with an underperforming football team isn’t misery. I don’t know why everyone assumes I’m miserable because I complain about a football team. I’m quite content with my life.

[sahlensguy]

Miserable? That’s the other thing. Frustration with an underperforming football team isn’t misery. I don’t know why everyone assumes I’m miserable because I complain about a football team. I’m quite content with my life.

You've taken an absolute stand that JA will never win a SB. That might be about a decade, in you're head, of absolutely not winning a SB. You've decided already. You're calling this content?

I don't believe you.

Unless you're not a Bill's fan.

[sukie]

Constant complaining comes from a sensation of discomfort or dis-ease.

Happy contentment doesn’t lead to serial complaining.

[sahlensguy]

Constant complaining comes from a sensation of discomfort or dis-ease.

Happy contentment doesn’t lead to serial complaining.

And the next 10 years with no shot at a SB is what a dummy would say. Or a troll.

[Goobylal]

Again, people watch Josh to see what he'll do with his arm or his legs. All they watched to see with Vick was what he would do with his legs because his arm was so inaccurate.

[OpIv37]

You've taken an absolute stand that JA will never win a SB. That might be about a decade, in you're head, of absolutely not winning a SB. You've decided already. You're calling this content?

I don't believe you.

Unless you're not a Bill's fan.

Once again, not being content with the Bills doesn’t mean not being content with life. But facts are facts. Allen had great teams in 21 and 22 and didn’t get the job done. Now, his rookie contract is over. With his salary eating so much of the cap, it’ll be impossible to put that quality of team around him again.

Morse, Miller, Hyde, Poyer, white… they’re aging out.

We’ve got young guys who need to get paid, but there isn’t any cap space because of the guys we’ve already paid. MCBeane aren’t particularly good at drafting.

That’s the reality. The window has closed. Josh won’t win one. He had has chance and didn’t get it done. Your 5/8 doesn’t get us a SB.

I’m 44. The average age of an American male is like 72. If I make it to the average, I’ve got 28 more chances to get a Bills SB. I have 0 confidence that we will get one in my lifetime. Oh well. I’ve gotten a lot of other things I wanted out of life. I’ll be very happy if we get one, but if I die without one, I’ll still be content with my life in general.

[MikeInRoch]

Sorry I haven't been reading closely enough. Has Op convinced anyone that he's right and every other person is wrong yet?

[Goobylal]

Sorry I haven't been reading closely enough. Has Op convinced anyone that he's right and every other person is wrong yet?

Has he ever?

[sahlensguy]

Once again, not being content with the Bills doesn’t mean not being content with life. But facts are facts. Allen had great teams in 21 and 22 and didn’t get the job done. Now, his rookie contract is over. With his salary eating so much of the cap, it’ll be impossible to put that quality of team around him again.

Morse, Miller, Hyde, Poyer, white… they’re aging out.

We’ve got young guys who need to get paid, but there isn’t any cap space because of the guys we’ve already paid. MCBeane aren’t particularly good at drafting.

That’s the reality. The window has closed. Josh won’t win one. He had has chance and didn’t get it done. Your 5/8 doesn’t get us a SB.

I’m 44. The average age of an American male is like 72. If I make it to the average, I’ve got 28 more chances to get a Bills SB. I have 0 confidence that we will get one in my lifetime. Oh well. I’ve gotten a lot of other things I wanted out of life. I’ll be very happy if we get one, but if I die without one, I’ll still be content with my life in general.

This is probably my last post in this thread about it. You said in another thread:


****ing A. I am so ****ing sick of people on this board assuming that one’s attitude toward a football team that keeps ****ing up is the same as their attitude toward life in general.

I think you were referring to our conversation here in this thread but if so, you have it wrong. It wasn't me who brought up your life outside of being a fan here. It was you who brought it up.

I was just doubting how any fan who is resolved to not going to a SB for the next decade or so, can call themselves content with that.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[OpIv37]

This is probably my last post in this thread about it. You said in another thread:



I think you were referring to our conversation here in this thread but if so, you have it wrong. It wasn't me who brought up your life outside of being a fan here. It was you who brought it up.

I was just doubting how any fan who is resolved to not going to a SB for the next decade or so, can call themselves content with that.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

See, that's the other thing. People here seem to have to mind-**** themselves into thinking the Bills are better than they are to keep being fans. Fans stick by their team when the team is bad. Some of you seem to only want to be fans if the team is good or if you can ignore the bad enough to think the team is good.

No, I'm not content with the Bills, but because I'm a fan, I'm going to stick with them and not go jump on the bandwagon of one of the teams that are better than us. I'm also not going to mind-**** myself into thinking that 5/8 is good enough.

[sahlensguy]

See, that's the other thing. People here seem to have to mind-**** themselves into thinking the Bills are better than they are to keep being fans. Fans stick by their team when the team is bad. Some of you seem to only want to be fans if the team is good or if you can ignore the bad enough to think the team is good.

No, I'm not content with the Bills, but because I'm a fan, I'm going to stick with them and not go jump on the bandwagon of one of the teams that are better than us. I'm also not going to mind-**** myself into thinking that 5/8 is good enough.

So, are you going to comment on you're quote I posted from the other thread? Were you pissed off at me for bringing up your personal life, and were you right/wrong about believing so?

[OpIv37]

So, are you going to comment on you're quote I posted from the other thread? Were you pissed off at me for bringing up your personal life, and were you right/wrong about believing so?

It's not just you. There are multiple people on this board who frequently say I must be a miserable person because I'm willing to discuss the flaws with the Bills, and often they're the same people who say it's just a game and I take it too seriously. It's nonsensical and frustrating.

[sahlensguy]

It's not just you. There are multiple people on this board who frequently say I must be a miserable person because I'm willing to discuss the flaws with the Bills, and often they're the same people who say it's just a game and I take it too seriously. It's nonsensical and frustrating.

So you think it is me who brings up your personal life.

I'll be clear.

I think you're a miserable fan. And maybe a troll too.

If you want to believe I mean that about you in your personal life. that's on you.

[MikeInRoch]

It's not just you. There are multiple people on this board who frequently say I must be a miserable person because I'm willing to discuss the flaws with the Bills, and often they're the same people who say it's just a game and I take it too seriously. It's nonsensical and frustrating.

It's not that you are "willing to discuss the flaws". It's because your expectations are ridiculous and unrealistic. Allen is a top 5 QB in the NFL. I don't think any neutral rational observer would dispute that. No, he's not number 1. So let's dump on him because he's not 100% perfect.

It's also that your justification for repeating the same stuff over, and over, and over again is basically that "but there are people who are WRONG and they MUST be corrected". Why do you see correcting other people as your job?

[sahlensguy]

It's not that you are "willing to discuss the flaws". It's because your expectations are ridiculous and unrealistic. Allen is a top 5 QB in the NFL. I don't think any neutral rational observer would dispute that. No, he's not number 1. So let's dump on him because he's not 100% perfect.

It's also that your justification for repeating the same stuff over, and over, and over again is basically that "but there are people who are WRONG and they MUST be corrected". Why do you see correcting other people as your job?

It would be one thing if his points were backed with integrity, but they aren't. He constantly will move the goalposts and even went so far in this thread to say that the title was wrong.

[notacon]

You've taken an absolute stand that JA will never win a SB. That might be about a decade, in you're head, of absolutely not winning a SB. You've decided already. You're calling this content?

I don't believe you.

Unless you're not a Bill's fan.

That's why it is an undeniable reality that Opi (and a handful of other here) are QUITTERS of the NTH Degree.

[notacon]

Once again, not being content with the Bills doesn’t mean not being content with life. But facts are facts. Allen had great teams in 21 and 22 and didn’t get the job done. Now, his rookie contract is over. With his salary eating so much of the cap, it’ll be impossible to put that quality of team around him again.

Morse, Miller, Hyde, Poyer, white… they’re aging out.

We’ve got young guys who need to get paid, but there isn’t any cap space because of the guys we’ve already paid. MCBeane aren’t particularly good at drafting.

That’s the reality. The window has closed. Josh won’t win one. He had has chance and didn’t get it done. Your 5/8 doesn’t get us a SB.

I’m 44. The average age of an American male is like 72. If I make it to the average, I’ve got 28 more chances to get a Bills SB. I have 0 confidence that we will get one in my lifetime. Oh well. I’ve gotten a lot of other things I wanted out of life. I’ll be very happy if we get one, but if I die without one, I’ll still be content with my life in general.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Pha8vcqDmBxgsZ41f9/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/bfN5GDQLR2Yip4OOpS/giphy.gif

[OpIv37]

It would be one thing if his points were backed with integrity, but they aren't. He constantly will move the goalposts and even went so far in this thread to say that the title was wrong.

It was. I never intended to say that JA and Vick were equals in terms of ability. But it’s what I wrote so I have to accept that people took it that way. I did a very poor job of articulating my point.

Most of you probably still wouldn’t agree with me if I had said what I meant to say anyway. I never “moved the goalposts.” My mistake here was not making my point clearly and using the =, not “moving the goalposts.”’

[OpIv37]

It's not that you are "willing to discuss the flaws". It's because your expectations are ridiculous and unrealistic. Allen is a top 5 QB in the NFL. I don't think any neutral rational observer would dispute that. No, he's not number 1. So let's dump on him because he's not 100% perfect.

It's also that your justification for repeating the same stuff over, and over, and over again is basically that "but there are people who are WRONG and they MUST be corrected". Why do you see correcting other people as your job?

I don’t live around a lot of Bills fans. I don’t like social media, so this is one of the few places I get to discuss the team. I want to do it honestly and accurately. That can’t be done if people are consistently wrong, so if they are, I will consistently correct them.