Gabe Davis vs Bengals via Rumblings

[Mace]

Their all-22 guy went through every pass play, concludes Davis is doing fine. Certainly appears so.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2023/11/8/23951740/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-wr-gabe-davis-vs-the-cincinnati-bengals-nfl-week-9-snf

It gets curioser and curiouser.

[sukie]

Eh on the 3rd one I think. He was open after the ball was released. He hadn’t stopped to shed the defender.

im not crapping on Gabe. He might not have been the 1-2 option on some of those. Josh didn’t have time to check down to 3or 4.

The issue I have is the plays themselves. Non attacking coverage busting and unimaginative.

davis is asked all the time to sideline it. It’s predictable like in that play to Kincaid. Davis would have also been down at the 2.


part of the issue is the reliance on Diggs. He’s usually 1or 2 on every play. When he’s a decoy, then Davis and ashakir shine.

the pic was a bad throw.

Davis is fine and he’ll make some team happy next season.

[Mace]

Half field reads. That's why people keep noticing receivers open on the other side and that's why Allen forces into coverage. Other side of the field isn't in the play.

[Mad Max]

I have a feeling that we won’t see Davis fully shine until he’s on another team and better/fully utilized.

[Novacane]

He comes open after the ball is already released and most of those plays ended up positive plays anyway. The bomb to Diggs was the exception. Don't know why Josh didn't even look at Gabe. Diggs wasn't open at all. I'd want to see more than 6 plays. Does that mean he wasn't open all the plays that weren't shown? Getting open 6 times in a game is nothing to brag about.

[sukie]

Half field reads. That's why people keep noticing receivers open on the other side and that's why Allen forces into coverage. Other side of the field isn't in the play.
The routes often being run are a sideline route and an in curl. Then the exact opposite on the other side. Josh doesn’t have the time to look to the other side when the rush is coming. I know I’m a broken record but option 3 should be between the numbers. With 4 being in the flat. That may mean a guy like Gabe isn’t getting the ball cause progression 5 is silly.

[Ingtar33]

Half field reads. That's why people keep noticing receivers open on the other side and that's why Allen forces into coverage. Other side of the field isn't in the play.

no, standard QB reads, left to right or right to left. or deep to shallow. the bills like running man beaters on one side, and zone beaters on the other; or even mirrored concepts with option routes for the wrs. josh reads the defense, and depending on what he sees, tells the QB what the read progression is. for example, if he reads zone, and the right side is a zone beater concept, he'll only really look to the right side, if those options aren't open, he's asked to be superman, run around and try to find someone open. which happens way too often in this offense.

it's easy in an all 22 to find a man open and ask why the QB isn't looking at him, well sometimes the defense has a fumbled coverage, and at the time the QB is looking at the wrong side of the field. that's how that gets missed. the only time it's a QB not seeing it is if it happens on the side of the field the QB is going through his progression, or the coverage and routes require the QB to look that way and he doesn't

half field reads are standard in rookie protecting play action. I don't see many plays where josh doesn't have the whole field to look at.

[sukie]

Ingtar you have to have noticed 15-20 yards downfield between the numbers is rarely targeted. It seems beat zone beat man is entirely on the outside.

[DetoxTent]

Eh on the 3rd one I think. He was open after the ball was released. He hadn’t stopped to shed the defender.

im not crapping on Gabe. He might not have been the 1-2 option on some of those. Josh didn’t have time to check down to 3or 4.

The issue I have is the plays themselves. Non attacking coverage busting and unimaginative.

davis is asked all the time to sideline it. It’s predictable like in that play to Kincaid. Davis would have also been down at the 2.


part of the issue is the reliance on Diggs. He’s usually 1or 2 on every play. When he’s a decoy, then Davis and ashakir shine.

the pic was a bad throw.

Davis is fine and he’ll make some team happy next season.

I have told you, now over & over, that when Gabe Davis gets involved like 4 to 5 catches a game, the Bills always win. When he's not involved they lose. Sunday was another shining example that I am right about this. This offense goes as Davis goes. Diggs gets what he gets and always does well. But getting Davis properly involved prevents opposing defense from settling into complacency.

For some odd reason Dorsey does not think that he can get Diggs 6 to 8 completions, Davis 4 to 5 completions, AND the TE position 4 to 5 completions. One of Dorsey's biggest fails is that he is not spreading the ball around properly. It's maddening.

[Ingtar33]

cont...

So i looked at the Rumblings stuff...

no.1 - bengals look like they were playing a cover 4-ish type coverage. could be cover2 with the CBs way off... the first read should be the underneath out route, which is what he threw. this is the same type of play josh tossed an INT on, trying to hit the hole between the CB and safety, this time he threw the underneath. which was the right play. i suspect Gabe was 3 or 4 in the progression and josh threw his no.1 option. calling this a "half field read" is the "analyst" trying to sound smart. he can't possibly know this because josh threw his first read

no.2 - i had to watch this a few times to figure out what i'm seeing. but the bengals are playing man, single high, out of a disguised cover 2 look look. this is thier defense to keep JA from running because they have basically two spys on Josh, who eventually pick up the options that slip out late from the backfield, but you can see their heads, they're still watching josh. they're trying to bait him into thinking it's zone. gabe isn't actually open until he hits the top of his route, when the CB (safety?) slips, this was probably an option route. the cornerback was playing with outside over the top leverage, because he had help in the deep middle, and had no interest in letting gabe get to the sideline or deep. i suppose josh could have thrown it quick to gabe, but if you look at davis's head, it never looks back at the QB, so he's not supposed to get the ball that quickly, so he's technically not open for any of that since the WR could have been hit in the head with the football and never knew it was coming. he's not an option on the quick slant, it's a good move by gabe at the top of the route, but by then the ball was already out to sherfield. the first option was to Diggs, and the bengals had him double covered. Sherfield's route was a cover 1 beater, so i don't have a complaint about josh throwing that ball. he got the PI call on it.

no.3 - the bengals defense tries to be cute here and Josh caught them cheating. the bengals are showing a cover 2 look at the snap, but this is really a similar defense to the last one, sort of a mixed man maybe a half and half man and zone, I think it's a cover 1, but the over the top guy sorta blew the disguised coverage, cause you can see him from the snap, take a step toward the line before he turns and books it for the deep middle. Josh caught the bengals with their pants down, and threw the deep shot on what is essentially cover zero since the deep safety was 20 yards away trailing behind. I don't have a problem with this, if we have a real speed burner that's probably a 80 yard TD. as it was, it should have been PI. Davis does get open, and he is running a man beater route, but he gets open late, after the ball is thrown, and that deep shot was so ****ing obvious you'd be a moron not to throw it.

no.4 - i've talked about this one in another thread. this is a classic cover 2 look by the bengals. the bills are trying to put the bengals cornerback into conflict running diggs underneath, if the corner bites even slightly on diggs the play should go to davis in the cover 2 hole about 20 yards downfield... NOT where that X is drawn. The problem is the CB never looked at diggs. turning what is a 8 out of 10 on the difficulty scale into a 10 out of 10 with maybe a 3 foot wide window to hit davis on (the corner is in trailing position and i think Josh trusted his arm to hit Gabe because of it, this isn't cover 4, the corner plays it like cover 2, it's the right route, but the wrong throw, with the corner not even looking to diggs, the ball should have went there). bad choice, allen took the risky, no one in the league throws this shot over the easy 5-10 yards to diggs cause he trusted his arm and unfortunately, that ball was not accurate enough.

no.5 - i disagree with this "analysis", davis is not open at all, if anything he's running a clear out route and i'm not sure he's even in the pass progression. the problem with this one is allen, he choses the bottom route tree to start his read from when sherfield? I'm not sure who it is, the guy in motion before the snap, is the only WR who was open, probably should have been the first read, based on the defense. I think allen was expecting Kinkade? to be open on the sidelines, and it just never happened, he looked off kinkade, diggs was covered, and the pocket was collapsing, he had sherfield open, I think he probably should have started his read up there, but... i don't know the bills playbook, it's possible he went through the progressions the way it's drawn up. but davis wasn't open if he was reading right to left, and he was bailing from the pocket before he got to no.3 on the route tree.

no.6 - ah... so the bengals appear to be in what appears to be cover 2 at the snap, but it turns into cover 4. davis's man isn't even looking at davis, he's watching allen the whole play. which is why davis looks so open. had allen looked davis's way that would have closed up really fast. still, allen went to the right guy, not his fault Kinkade fumbled it.

[DetoxTent]

Ingtar you have to have noticed 15-20 yards downfield between the numbers is rarely targeted. It seems beat zone beat man is entirely on the outside.

Another Dorsey quirk that the league's defensive coordinators are on to. Makes me miss Chan Gailey. Talk about sadness.

[Mace]

no, standard QB reads, left to right or right to left. or deep to shallow. the bills like running man beaters on one side, and zone beaters on the other; or even mirrored concepts with option routes for the wrs. josh reads the defense, and depending on what he sees, tells the QB what the read progression is. for example, if he reads zone, and the right side is a zone beater concept, he'll only really look to the right side, if those options aren't open, he's asked to be superman, run around and try to find someone open. which happens way too often in this offense.

it's easy in an all 22 to find a man open and ask why the QB isn't looking at him, well sometimes the defense has a fumbled coverage, and at the time the QB is looking at the wrong side of the field. that's how that gets missed. the only time it's a QB not seeing it is if it happens on the side of the field the QB is going through his progression, or the coverage and routes require the QB to look that way and he doesn't

half field reads are standard in rookie protecting play action. I don't see many plays where josh doesn't have the whole field to look at.

If you have the time, roll over to the Bills offense via Rumblings thread....I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Ingtar33]

If you have the time, roll over to the Bills offense via Rumblings thread....I'd like to hear your thoughts.

i replied with my second post in this thread to that "rumblings" article.

[DetoxTent]

If you have the time, roll over to the Bills offense via Rumblings thread....I'd like to hear your thoughts.

He wrote a lot, not all of which I agree with. But the overriding question should be why isn't Gabe Davis the hot read more often? I will not buy anyone who claims it's because he doesn't get open until he hits the top of his routes.

[Woodman]

I have a feeling that we won’t see Davis fully shine until he’s on another team and better/fully utilized.
Dorsey has 8 regular season games left to do a better job and give him more opportunity.

We have a decision to make.

Dorsey is currently on the hottest seat in town.

[Ingtar33]

He wrote a lot, not all of which I agree with. But the overriding question should be why isn't Gabe Davis the hot read more often? I will not buy anyone who claims it's because he doesn't get open until he hits the top of his routes.

small tip. watch the WR's heads. that tells you when they become an option. the one i think you're talking about was no.2, as i said. davis never looks at josh till he hits the top of his route. you can't point at a wr who appears open his whole route and say he was open why didn't the QB throw it, if the wr never looks back, then he wasn't the option yet, the QB can't throw it to a guy not looking. by the time davis is ready for the ball (yes he was still open thanks to the slip) the ball was already out to sherfield. and i can't say it was the wrong throw either. because sheirfield was running a cover 1 beater, and it was cover 1.

[DetoxTent]

small tip. watch the WR's heads. that tells you when they become an option. the one i think you're talking about was no.2, as i said. davis never looks at josh till he hits the top of his route. you can't point at a wr who appears open his whole route and say he was open why didn't the QB throw it, if the wr never looks back, then he wasn't the option yet, the QB can't throw it to a guy not looking. by the time davis is ready for the ball (yes he was still open thanks to the slip) the ball was already out to sherfield. and i can't say it was the wrong throw either. because sheirfield was running a cover 1 beater, and it was cover 1.
Always do. The problem is that all the players and coaches know your little tip too.

[DetoxTent]

Dorsey has 8 regular season games left to do a better job and give him more opportunity.
We have a decision to make.
Dorsey is currently on the hottest seat in town.

They got on Matt Canada in Pittsburgh. But while he may not be perfect, a lot of their problems can be written off to the limitations of their current QB. Dorsey has no such crutch.

[sukie]

He wrote a lot, not all of which I agree with. But the overriding question should be why isn't Gabe Davis the hot read more often? I will not buy anyone who claims it's because he doesn't get open until he hits the top of his routes.
His routes are often deep which require pocket stability for him to hit the top. It’s design issues from what I see.

[Mad Max]

His routes are often deep which require pocket stability for him to hit the top. It’s design issues from what I see.

And the designer uses crayons

[Woodman]

They got on Matt Canada in Pittsburgh. But while he may not be perfect, a lot of their problems can be written off to the limitations of their current QB. Dorsey has no such crutch.
Agreed .... he's awful.

[Woodman]

He wrote a lot, not all of which I agree with. But the overriding question should be why isn't Gabe Davis the hot read more often? I will not buy anyone who claims it's because he doesn't get open until he hits the top of his routes.
Been saying this for a long time ......... always has to be you know who and if you know ........ guess who else has figured it out!!