Ken Dorsey was just fired….

[Skooby]

I just got the call & you’ll hear it soon, holy crap. There’s no way Josh can be this bad, we should be scoring at will, O-line is not even allowing sacks.

[Novacane]

Scheftner reporting it. If you listended to McD's presser last night this is not a surprise.

[Typ0]

Good. It's about time. Still hold McDermott accountable for this mid-season bull**** that should have never happened except he didn't recognize his bad hire until too late.

[Mr. Pink]

Just saw Adam Schefter reporting it on Twitter/X that Dorsey was fired.

Joe Brady taking over the job for the rest of the year.

[Novacane]

Joe Brady is the interim OC. I don't know if that's any improvement.

[Woodman]

Thought it might happen this morning so there you are.

[Novacane]

They had to try something. I still think the main problem is the guy that did the firing.

[justasportsfan]

When is the ST coach getting fired?

[Woodman]

Did the Jets just say OH **** ?

[Woodman]

When is the ST coach getting fired?

Solve all those nasty special teams problems with just one change.

Punt God !!

[BillsFanCupp38]

Probably two weeks too late.

[Mr. Pink]

If things don't improve over the next 7 weeks, McDermott won't be too far behind him.

TRUST THE PROCESS!

[sahlensguy]

Never should have been hired in the first place.

Giving a rookie OC the keys to the Delorian was a moronic idea.

[Woodman]

Sign the punt god and start making any cut that saves you money from the ST unit.

The kid is the unit almost by himself.

Dump Miller and his fat contract if at all possible.

Sorry his best days were years ago ......

[Novacane]

Solve all those nasty special teams problems with just one change.

Punt God !!

He should be back here today. I get why they cut him. They should do the right thing now that his name is clear. He's a better punter than Martin.

[sukie]

Brady just a better level of crappy. Inexperienced as Dorsey and lasted 1 game less in Carolina where Offenses were 27th and 30 th

[BillsFanCupp38]

If im not mistaken the ravens fired their coordinator mid season and ended up winning the Superbowl. Not saying this is going to happen but something had to give.

[Woodman]

Probably two weeks too late.

I'll go 10.

[Mr. Pink]

Sign the punt god and start making any cut that saves you money from the ST unit.

The kid is the unit almost by himself.

Dump Miller and his fat contract if at all possible.

Sorry his best days were years ago ......

Can't cut Miller til after next year.

8m against the cap this year if he's here...40m if he's cut now.

23m against the cap if he's here....32m if he's cut next season.

Their out on his contract is prior to 2025, so you got one more year of Miller.

[Novacane]

The best thing about this is McDermott is obviously feeling the heat. It's not like him to make a move like this mid season. Maybe there's hope he's the next head to fall if there's not a drastic turnaround.

[justasportsfan]

Diggs' issue at the start of camp is now justified.

[Mr. Pink]

He should be back here today. I get why they cut him. They should do the right thing now that his name is clear. He's a better punter than Martin.

Once the allegations cleared I'm shocked that he wasn't given an opportunity somewhere.

[Woodman]

So when does BB bring him in 5,4,3, ....... !

[Typ0]

**** McDermott. Few days ago he had full confidence. Today the bottom falls out. He is the one making dumb **** happen not anyone else ...

[Canadian'eh!]

No surprise here.

McD needed a sacrifice to go along with his “D injuries” excuse to save his own ass. He’s a big fan of scapegoats. Daboll was to some degree, Frazier and now Dorsey.

It’ll probably work in saving his job.

[Typ0]

Another thing too....if there weren't 12 men on the field on that FG would Dorsey be getting cast off today? That should tell you what you need to know about McDermott.

[Chet]

Yes!!!

Too late though, so hopefully McD falls on the sword after we miss the playoffs

[Ingtar33]

I don't have a problem with this. there is a feel to calling offensive plays. We've had **** coordinators before, sometimes they ran a bad scheme sometimes they didn't have the personnel, sometimes they just couldn't read the flow of the game.

my biggest gripe for Dorsey is I never saw any scheming out of him. he didn't have a gameplan for each opponent, he had his system and he was going to run it hell or high water. He didn't have a good feel for offensive playcalling either. he didn't know how to setup a defensive coordinator, he didn't know how to get in the heads of the defense and get them to look the wrong way. he didn't know how to get JA in a grove, or the offenses in a grove.

I had complaints for Daboll when he was here. I questioned some of his play calling sometimes. I thought his play calling for josh's first game (ever) against the ravens was dog****. but Daboll had a great feel for offensive playcalling. He knew what would work, what would setup what he would run later, how to get the defense looking the wrong way, how to exploit coverages and schemes. he wasn't perfect but he was lightyears better then dorsey.

the offense has been in a slow tailspin ever since Brian left, getting progressively worse each week. Last year we could write off some of the problem with the **** WR corps. and it was terrible. the WRs ran the wrong routes constantly, or bad ones, josh lost confidence in them, it was just awful. now the guys who were doing this were guys who didn't have these problems when Daboll was here. but since the prime offender was McKenzie (and to a lesser extent davis), we could lie to ourselves and say it was personel, not coaching, the team even believed it, as they dusted Cole Beasley and John Brown off because of how bad McK and Davis were at times just running basic route concepts.

But Dorsey doesn't have that excuse this year. Unlike last year with McK and Davis running **** routes destroying the offense, we didn't really have any crappy route running. davis's problems with that mostly went away. mckenzie isn't here, and our WR room isn't running bad routes anymore. yet the offense continued to regress... every single week.

They HAD to make this move.

[Typ0]

No surprise here.

McD needed a sacrifice to go along with his “D injuries” excuse to save his own ass.

It’ll probably work in saving his job.

McDermott never sounds hungry and humble to me ... how does he expect people to be humble and hungry around him when he is a full of **** people pleasing gaslighter and you can't trust him through the bull****?

[TheConsigliere]

Thoughts & Prayers

[sahlensguy]

Another thing too....if there weren't 12 men on the field on that FG would Dorsey be getting cast off today? That should tell you what you need to know about McDermott.

Dorsey didn't derve the job in the first place but yeah, the timing of this is just more bad clock management from McD.

[Typ0]

I don't have a problem with this. there is a feel to calling offensive plays. We've had **** coordinators before, sometimes they ran a bad scheme sometimes they didn't have the personnel, sometimes they just couldn't read the flow of the game.

my biggest gripe for Dorsey is I never saw any scheming out of him. he didn't have a gameplan for each opponent, he had his system and he was going to run it hell or high water. He didn't have a good feel for offensive playcalling either. he didn't know how to setup a defensive coordinator, he didn't know how to get in the heads of the defense and get them to look the wrong way. he didn't know how to get JA in a grove, or the offenses in a grove.

I had complaints for Daboll when he was here. I questioned some of his play calling sometimes. I thought his play calling for josh's first game (ever) against the ravens was dog****. but Daboll had a great feel for offensive playcalling. He knew what would work, what would setup what he would run later, how to get the defense looking the wrong way, how to exploit coverages and schemes. he wasn't perfect but he was lightyears better then dorsey.

the offense has been in a slow tailspin ever since Brian left, getting progressively worse each week. Last year we could write off some of the problem with the **** WR corps. and it was terrible. the WRs ran the wrong routes constantly, or bad ones, josh lost confidence in them, it was just awful. now the guys who were doing this were guys who didn't have these problems when Daboll was here. but since the prime offender was McKenzie (and to a lesser extent davis), we could lie to ourselves and say it was personel, not coaching, the team even believed it, as they dusted Cole Beasley and John Brown off because of how bad McK and Davis were at times just running basic route concepts.

But Dorsey doesn't have that excuse this year. Unlike last year with McK and Davis running **** routes destroying the offense, we didn't really have any crappy route running. davis's problems with that mostly went away. mckenzie isn't here, and our WR room isn't running bad routes anymore. yet the offense continued to regress... every single week.

They HAD to make this move.

McDermott is slow as molasses. His communication systems are slow as molasses. Our whole organization is about six steps behind any organization that is proactive and not bogged down in analysis paralysis and/or crippled from adaptation by their resident in control narcissist.

[Typ0]

Dorsey didn't derve the job in the first place but yeah, the timing of this is just more bad clock management from McD.

that's right!

1. He didn't deserve the job in the first place.
2. McDermott's denial perpetuated the problem longer than it should have existed.

How is that 'humble and hungry"?

our team is a joke.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If the offense gets worse or doesn't make any progress, the writing is in the wall for McDermott.

Coordinators getting fired mid-season is something that does not usually bode well for the future of the HC.

[sahlensguy]

that's right!

1. He didn't deserve the job in the first place.
2. McDermott's denial perpetuated the problem longer than it should have existed.

How is that 'humble and hungry"?

our team is a joke.

Ludicrous to give the OC job to a rookie when they were trying to get to the SB. It's not like they had prime Tom Brady at QB. Josh Allen still needed someone who could keep him accountable. They f'd it all up.

[Novacane]

that's right!

1. He didn't deserve the job in the first place.
2. McDermott's denial perpetuated the problem longer than it should have existed.

How is that 'humble and hungry"?

our team is a joke.



The HC is a joke. When is he going to be held accountable? Is Terry to naive he doesn't realize that this moron hired all these guys that he's now blaming for all the failure? I wish Kim was still able to run the team. Terry's to soft.

[justasportsfan]

Our receivers have also regressed since Chad Hall left.

[Woodman]

Solve all those nasty special teams problems with just one change.

Punt God !!

Do the right thing !!

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Do the right thing !!

WHAT THE **** DOES MATT ARAIZA HAVE TO DO WITH KEN DORSEY!!??

JESUS!

this is the LEAST of our problems right now

[Forward_Lateral]

I don't have a problem with this. there is a feel to calling offensive plays. We've had **** coordinators before, sometimes they ran a bad scheme sometimes they didn't have the personnel, sometimes they just couldn't read the flow of the game.

my biggest gripe for Dorsey is I never saw any scheming out of him. he didn't have a gameplan for each opponent, he had his system and he was going to run it hell or high water. He didn't have a good feel for offensive playcalling either. he didn't know how to setup a defensive coordinator, he didn't know how to get in the heads of the defense and get them to look the wrong way. he didn't know how to get JA in a grove, or the offenses in a grove.

.
So much this. If I could like it a million times, I would.

Dorsey is either lazy or extremely arrogant. He assumed that they could just run the same offense against any D and be successful. How many times has Josh thrown an INT on that stupid high low out pattern this year? At least 5. Instead of continuing to run it, why can't you run a variation of it, and burn the corners that are sitting on it? They are obviously telegraphing it.

[kingJofNYC]

Tyler Dunne and the Bills old assistant GM Jim Manos do podcasts together. A long time ago they talked about how Terry went nuts on Rex and they fired Roman. Wonder if Terry stepped in here and read these dudes the riot act.

In some ways I feel bad for Dorsey, because this is certainly not all on him. Bills have lost WR coach, Tierney, Daboll, it's a lot of guys in offensive meetings gone and hard to fill that talent gap in a year or so.

On the flip side, this move was difficult for McD to make, if he was the one who made it, because it squarely puts him in the cross hairs. His Defense, and yeah we know about the injuries, is giving up more explosive plays than ever after firing Frasier. He just fired his OC when statistically the Bills O is near the top of the league in advanced metrics. This is a put your balls on the table move, and he may lose them.

As for Josh Allen, he's now naked. All the guys that were around him when he started, Tierney/Daboll/Dorsey are now gone.

[Novacane]

Tyler Dunne and the Bills old assistant GM Jim Manos do podcasts together. A long time ago they talked about how Terry went nuts on Rex and they fired Roman. Wonder if Terry stepped in here and read these dudes the riot act.

In some ways I feel bad for Dorsey, because this is certainly not all on him. Bills have lost WR coach, Tierney, Daboll, it's a lot of guys in offensive meetings gone and hard to fill that talent gap in a year or so.

On the flip side, this move was difficult for McD to make, if he was the one who made it, because it squarely puts him in the cross hairs. His Defense, and yeah we know about the injuries, is giving up more explosive plays than ever after firing Frasier. He just fired his OC when statistically the Bills O is near the top of the league in advanced metrics. This is a put your balls on the table move, and he may lose them.

As for Josh Allen, he's now naked. All the guys that were around him when he started, Tierney/Daboll/Dorsey are now gone.


That's my take too and the biggest positive about this firing. No one else to throw under the bus if this doesn't get turned around.

[kingJofNYC]

That's my take too and the biggest positive about this firing. No one else to throw under the bus if this doesn't get turned around.

Yeah man, I hope it works out for the best, but......


Look I know we're all passionate fans, want this team to do well, we sometimes attack one another for dumb ass reasons, but these guys are human and trying to do their best. There's a lot of **** we don't hear about that stays in house, and sometimes guys get thrown to the wolves for flimsy reasons. I mean just waking up this morning, all the takes were on how this Bills offense is broken, they fire Dorsey and folks are like well it's not really his fault, which I don't disagree with, but at the end of the day the top guy is going to get his head cut off if the ship keeps sinking.

Wish the team can turn it around, I'm definitely not getting my hopes up, but I dread thinking about what may happen if they actually do throw out this coaching staff, which may give McD more rope than he should have because Pegula realizes how bad things can get when you make the wrong hire (Rex Ryan).

[Typ0]

That's my take too and the biggest positive about this firing. No one else to throw under the bus if this doesn't get turned around.

they didn't fire the special teams coordinator yet.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I just got the call & you’ll hear it soon, holy crap. There’s no way Josh can be this bad, we should be scoring at will, O-line is not even allowing sacks.
any insight from your people what's going on at OBD?

i'm not being sarcastic. i'm asking for real.

[kingJofNYC]

Quinton Spain, not the first time he's thrown shade, wonder who he's referring to ;)


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[notacon]

Scapegoat to protect Allen's massive regression. He simply is not a very good QB right now. In a QB driven league that is the kiss of death.

They can't fire Josh so this is the next best thing.

Probably won't make a difference, but hopefully it will. I really don't care much anymore. Like I said here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264248-Anyone-still-think-this-team-is-a-contender?p=5060750&viewfull=1#post5060750)I'm done defending this confounding, disappointing mess of a team.

[Typ0]

Scapegoat to protect Allen's massive regression. He simply is not a very good QB right now. In a QB driven league that is the kiss of death.

They can't fire Josh so this is the next best thing.

Probably won't make a difference, but hopefully it will. I really don't care much anymore. Like I said here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264248-Anyone-still-think-this-team-is-a-contender?p=5060750&viewfull=1#post5060750)I'm done defending this confounding, disappointing mess of a team.

It's not that simple. Allen has been mismanaged by McDermott since he got here. He's never put in his place and always coddled. He gets his way like a whiney baby and never has his humanity challenged ... then coach is telling him to be humble.

Can go on and on about the signs that have been on the wall. Don't just put this all on Allen.

I'm a teacher. Mostly, you can't teach anyone anything by telling them something. You need to demonstrate and explain yes...but they need good modeling and the proper culture to flourish. They need to see what they need to do and then practice to build good habits and expertise. There needs to be a good and immediate feedback structure for mentoring and coaching.

We don't do these things. instead, we candy coat lies and people please until it blows up in our faces. Sounds like the personality of the head coach to me.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

McDermott must have felt (or given) the heat to do this. I often compare him to Cowher who for years tried to break that ceiling. But Cowher never had to fire someone mid-season to save himself.

Two games lost due to defense could not hold up at the end. Along with 13 seconds, I think if there is more hiccup on D, we might see McDermott in trouble as well.

[Forward_Lateral]

Scapegoat to protect Allen's massive regression. He simply is not a very good QB right now. In a QB driven league that is the kiss of death.

They can't fire Josh so this is the next best thing.

Probably won't make a difference, but hopefully it will. I really don't care much anymore. Like I said here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264248-Anyone-still-think-this-team-is-a-contender?p=5060750&viewfull=1#post5060750)I'm done defending this confounding, disappointing mess of a team.
Good. This team does not deserve anyone's defense. We have stuck by them for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Last night was the final straw of me defending anyone on that team. When I get Detroit Lions fans chirping me about how the Bills lost, it really just makes me hate football.

Will I still watch? Probably. I can say I won't, but I will. Will I care? Sure, but I won't care nearly as much as I have up until this season. Every year my care factor dwindles a bit. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, and understand that these are sports, which could possibly have predetermined outcomes anyways, and they have zero effect on my life, other than escaping it on Sundays. It's becoming less enjoyable. I used to count down the days until Sunday, even when the Bills were absolutely terrible, and I rarely missed a game, and if I had to miss it I would tape or DVR it. I no longer have that excitement. I no longer have that longing for Sundays. Being a fan of this franchise has taken the life out of me. It has beaten me down. It has conditioned me to expect the worst, even when I try to be optimistic and hopeful. I still expect them, to somehow, find a new way to kick me in the nuts. Last night was a new way to lose. Good teams don't lose like that. Good teams don't make stupid game deciding penalties. Good teams don't let the same stupid play beat them over and over. As soon as Wilson flipped to Perrine and he got to mid field, I knew the game was over. Season over. Care factor? Over.

This team does not deserve yours, mine, or anyone else's for that matter, apologies or excuses made for them.

[Novacane]

Quinton Spain, not the first time he's thrown shade, wonder who he's referring to ;)


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McD of course. He may be right but he sucked so who cares.

[Bill Cody]

The way the rules are in the league you're better off with an offensive head coach. Let him be responsible for the offense including play calling if he wants to. Otherwise even if you find a guy that's a good OC you're going to lose him every few years and then you have to start over. I see this move as a band aid at best. Necessary yes but Brady is another inexperienced guy that Josh is not likely to have a lot of respect for.

[notacon]

Good. This team does not deserve anyone's defense. We have stuck by them for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Last night was the final straw of me defending anyone on that team. When I get Detroit Lions fans chirping me about how the Bills lost, it really just makes me hate football.

Will I still watch? Probably. I can say I won't, but I will. Will I care? Sure, but I won't care nearly as much as I have up until this season. Every year my care factor dwindles a bit. Maybe it's because I'm getting older, and understand that these are sports, which could possibly have predetermined outcomes anyways, and they have zero effect on my life, other than escaping it on Sundays. It's becoming less enjoyable. I used to count down the days until Sunday, even when the Bills were absolutely terrible, and I rarely missed a game, and if I had to miss it I would tape or DVR it. I no longer have that excitement. I no longer have that longing for Sundays. Being a fan of this franchise has taken the life out of me. It has beaten me down. It has conditioned me to expect the worst, even when I try to be optimistic and hopeful. I still expect them, to somehow, find a new way to kick me in the nuts. Last night was a new way to lose. Good teams don't lose like that. Good teams don't make stupid game deciding penalties. Good teams don't let the same stupid play beat them over and over. As soon as Wilson flipped to Perrine and he got to mid field, I knew the game was over. Season over. Care factor? Over.

This team does not deserve yours, mine, or anyone else's for that matter, apologies or excuses made for them.

+1


Well stated. :bf1:

[Borosai]

When Dorsey was promoted, it was a risk, but it made sense. The Bills had a pretty good offense, so instead of swapping it out, the idea was to build on, and improve, the existing system. Dorsey made sense. Now, after 1 1/2 seasons, it was clearly a mistake and a waste of time.

Brady isn't going to fix the offense, or help Allen, so the rest of the season will be... interesting? McD should be next though.

[EDS]

Another thing too....if there weren't 12 men on the field on that FG would Dorsey be getting cast off today? That should tell you what you need to know about McDermott.

I agree with this sentiment. Does not make it a bad move, but clearly a low hanging fruit move.

[notacon]

It's not that simple. Allen has been mismanaged by McDermott since he got here. He's never put in his place and always coddled. He gets his way like a whiney baby and never has his humanity challenged ... then coach is telling him to be humble.

Can go on and on about the signs that have been on the wall. Don't just put this all on Allen.

I'm a teacher. Mostly, you can't teach anyone anything by telling them something. You need to demonstrate and explain yes...but they need good modeling and the proper culture to flourish. They need to see what they need to do and then practice to build good habits and expertise. There needs to be a good and immediate feedback structure for mentoring and coaching.

We don't do these things. instead, we candy coat lies and people please until it blows up in our faces. Sounds like the personality of the head coach to me.

You being a teacher my response (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264366-Does-the-Dorsey-firing-appease-you?p=5060862&viewfull=1#post5060862) may resonate with you to Novacane questioning (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=5060853#post5060853) why Josh Allen "isn't a very good QB right now" and suggested it might be "Dorsey? McD?"...

"He has to look in the mirror.

Trying to shift the accountability onto coaches is lame.

Reminds me of when when a child gets crappy grades and tires to blame the teacher. I never bought that baloney when my kids tried it (rarely because of the reaction my wife and I had when they tried it ONCE) and certainly am not going to buy it for a quarter of a BILLION dollar QB."

[Historian]

WHAT THE **** DOES MATT ARAIZA HAVE TO DO WITH KEN DORSEY!!??

JESUS!

this is the LEAST of our problems right now


Mmmmmmmaybe not.

Field position is critical, especially in close games.

[Chet]

Jesus Christ would you spit the coaches ***** out of your mouth for one second? Josh Allen has regressed BECAUSE of the coaching. We had an amateur OC who was handed the keys to a Ferrari and kept crashing it. Elite QBs don’t just turn to **** for no ****ing reason.

[Mr. Pink]

Mmmmmmmaybe not.

Field position is critical, especially in close games.

Martin had a 30 yard net average on punts yesterday.

Broncos had average starting field position of their own 40.

There is an issue on special teams here as well as the offense.

[Saratoga Slim]

I don't have a problem with this. there is a feel to calling offensive plays. We've had **** coordinators before, sometimes they ran a bad scheme sometimes they didn't have the personnel, sometimes they just couldn't read the flow of the game.

my biggest gripe for Dorsey is I never saw any scheming out of him. he didn't have a gameplan for each opponent, he had his system and he was going to run it hell or high water. He didn't have a good feel for offensive playcalling either. he didn't know how to setup a defensive coordinator, he didn't know how to get in the heads of the defense and get them to look the wrong way. he didn't know how to get JA in a grove, or the offenses in a grove.

I had complaints for Daboll when he was here. I questioned some of his play calling sometimes. I thought his play calling for josh's first game (ever) against the ravens was dog****. but Daboll had a great feel for offensive playcalling. He knew what would work, what would setup what he would run later, how to get the defense looking the wrong way, how to exploit coverages and schemes. he wasn't perfect but he was lightyears better then dorsey.

the offense has been in a slow tailspin ever since Brian left, getting progressively worse each week. Last year we could write off some of the problem with the **** WR corps. and it was terrible. the WRs ran the wrong routes constantly, or bad ones, josh lost confidence in them, it was just awful. now the guys who were doing this were guys who didn't have these problems when Daboll was here. but since the prime offender was McKenzie (and to a lesser extent davis), we could lie to ourselves and say it was personel, not coaching, the team even believed it, as they dusted Cole Beasley and John Brown off because of how bad McK and Davis were at times just running basic route concepts.

But Dorsey doesn't have that excuse this year. Unlike last year with McK and Davis running **** routes destroying the offense, we didn't really have any crappy route running. davis's problems with that mostly went away. mckenzie isn't here, and our WR room isn't running bad routes anymore. yet the offense continued to regress... every single week.

They HAD to make this move.
Agree. If nothing else, they had to make A move, and this is the only real one available.

No idea whether Brady is an upgrade, but if nothing else he gets 7 games to show whether he should be the guy next year. Waiting to January to fire Dorsey and hire Brady would require another leap of faith.

[Historian]

Guys....look on the bright side:

We will never see Allen in the shotgun on 4th and one inch ever again!!!!!

:couch:

[Saratoga Slim]

So much this. If I could like it a million times, I would.

Dorsey is either lazy or extremely arrogant. He assumed that they could just run the same offense against any D and be successful. How many times has Josh thrown an INT on that stupid high low out pattern this year? At least 5. Instead of continuing to run it, why can't you run a variation of it, and burn the corners that are sitting on it? They are obviously telegraphing it.

YES!!!

While it may be on Josh to not make that same stupid bad read over and over, it's at some point on the coordinator to tear that **** out of the playbook if you know it leads to bad outcomes with your QB. That's my other problem with Dorsey--sure, he's not on the field making four turnovers yesterday. But he is the guy who is responsible for putting his stars in positions where they can succeed. So many examples of where Daboll did that and Dorsey doesn't.

[Chet]

Guys....look on the bright side:

We will never see Allen in the shotgun on 4th and one inch ever again!!!!!

:couch:

Amen

[justasportsfan]

I told you so!!!!!

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/QvPKcJ7/diggs1.jpg" alt="diggs1" border="0">

[Historian]

When is the ST coach getting fired?

You know who needs to be fired next?

The athletic training staff.

[Typ0]

You being a teacher my response (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264366-Does-the-Dorsey-firing-appease-you?p=5060862&viewfull=1#post5060862) may resonate with you to Novacane questioning (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=5060853#post5060853) why Josh Allen "isn't a very good QB right now" and suggested it might be "Dorsey? McD?"...

"He has to look in the mirror.

Trying to shift the accountability onto coaches is lame.

Reminds me of when when a child gets crappy grades and tires to blame the teacher. I never bought that baloney when my kids tried it (rarely because of the reaction my wife and I had when they tried it ONCE) and certainly am not going to buy it for a quarter of a BILLION dollar QB."

You are 100% correct this is what's required. The problem is the coaches are always bull****ting and shifting blame around to others! Then they say be humble and do your self-reflection.

So, yes, you are correct about what you are saying. I'm just saying it's not being properly taught by the modeling of the coaches so the trust isn't there to be a successful group. Allen is just having his defense mechanisms fight back in unhealthy ways because he is submersed in the pile of bull**** culture that McDermott runs.

[Typ0]

When you are under the influence of a crafty gaslighter your conscious mind keeps moving forward following the narcissists queues -- while your subconscious mind is always saying to you "something is wrong here". You start to get more and more ungrounded and mixed up which plays right into the narcissists hands as they have more fuel to point the finger at you. It's not pretty. Everything starts to go awry. You can't think straight. You are gaslit into insanity. We have been seeing these signs for years. You haven't been looking and/or paying attention because you don't want it to be true.

[Canadian'eh!]

Guys....look on the bright side:

We will never see Allen in the shotgun on 4th and one inch ever again!!!!!

:couch:

I said last night….

After the TD Denver was offside on the XP. So, McD takes the penalty and moves from the 2 to the 1 to go for 2 (I agree with that call, so credit where it’s due)

What does Dorsey call? A shotgun formation pass with a bunch of crossing routes.

On the play, David made the catch and it worked. Fine.

But I was absolutely baffled by the playcall. The whole point of moving from 2 to 1 was to take the advantage and run a high percentage play like a sneak, run or play action. Dorsey? Nope. Shotgun, no play action and a play you could run from the 1, 2 or 8 yard line with the same % probability of success.

Just zero understanding of your advantage in the game and running a far riskier play than needed.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Martin had a 30 yard net average on punts yesterday.

Broncos had average starting field position of their own 40.

There is an issue on special teams here as well as the offense.
That’s fine, but my larger issue was the hijacking of this thread by mentioning Sam Martin who has nothing to do with how ****ty Ken Dorsey was

But while we are feeding into woods hijacking, I’d also argue that the punt coverage and poor tackling was bigger than Sam Martin

[YardRat]

YES!!!

While it may be on Josh to not make that same stupid bad read over and over, it's at some point on the coordinator to tear that **** out of the playbook if you know it leads to bad outcomes with your QB. That's my other problem with Dorsey--sure, he's not on the field making four turnovers yesterday. But he is the guy who is responsible for putting his stars in positions where they can succeed. So many examples of where Daboll did that and Dorsey doesn't.


A smart QB that is focused and prepared keeps the play design in, understands the coverage the defense is always throwing at it to take it away, and adapts to throw to another receiver that is going to be open.

Josh needs to stop playing checkers, we've been waiting since 13 seconds for him to start playing chess and he just doesn't want to. Or can't.

[Historian]

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/370221019_888774356149018_481752526729962472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8cd0a2&_nc_ohc=p227hXNzxUkAX_RuwDN&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=03_AdSWK8wQDd89t6CckYzBZR5SbDGh4eMHQ8thcgJjRYkGGg&oe=657B67E5

[Mace]

When Dorsey was promoted, it was a risk, but it made sense. The Bills had a pretty good offense, so instead of swapping it out, the idea was to build on, and improve, the existing system. Dorsey made sense. Now, after 1 1/2 seasons, it was clearly a mistake and a waste of time.

Brady isn't going to fix the offense, or help Allen, so the rest of the season will be... interesting? McD should be next though.

Brady really could make a difference with play selection, more up tempo, flexibility and help everything across the board. Not saying he will, but it's a possibility. He's a former OC and he's seen what didn't work so far.

[Jimkelly12203]

The HC is a joke. When is he going to be held accountable? Is Terry to naive he doesn't realize that this moron hired all these guys that he's now blaming for all the failure? I wish Kim was still able to run the team. Terry's to soft.
I disagree 100%. Terry isn't soft. They fired Rex after 2 years. McDermott is going to likely get next year to fix this. I think he's earned that. Especially since hiring an entire new coaching staff feels like playing Russian roulette to me. I do, however, think that Kim Pegulla's presence is going to be sorely missed and detrimental to the future of this organization. Terry is a good dude. But i think he's quasi-narcoleptic. If i had to guess, Kim has been the brains behind this organization coming out of our decades long hibernation of crippling mediocrity.

[Jimkelly12203]

Guys....look on the bright side:

We will never see Allen in the shotgun on 4th and one inch ever again!!!!!

:couch:

I was literally screaming at the television! My wife and daughter asked what "shotgun" meant. And it led to an interesting learning experience for them. By the end of the conversation, they easily understood what Ken Dorsey obviously did not.

[Historian]

So...when we win the whole thing....does Dorsey still get a ring?

:couch:

[sukie]

No

can’t even buy a hat.

[Canadian'eh!]

So...when we win the whole thing....does Dorsey still get a ring?

:couch:

Can they still make rings if hell freezes over?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I forgot who said it on TV, sort of heard off the press as well, that NFL defensive players are saying Bills offense is very predictable. Yes it is a complex playbook but something (formation, players, etc.) just gave defense a hint on what we want to do. That is on OC. Remember this past off season when teams said they can watch Taron Johnson's positioning to predict what the defensive call is, half the time?

[Jimkelly12203]

How many games would we play if we won it all? I mean i think winning the first round bye week is out of the question at this point so what's that? 17 games plus the wild card, then divisional round, then afc championship and then superbowl? 21 games? (or is it 20?)...

Regardless, If we win it all he gets one half of a ring. Nothing more!

[sukie]

Hard to imagine a former passing game coordinator and QB coach from U of Miami didn’t know how to player is e Daboll formations.

[Typ0]

Let's win the ring and worry about that later ...

[jamze132]

I’m surprised they fired the guy mid season but I fully support it. And if we miss the playoffs, McD and the rest of the staff are gone too.

Anyone with a pedigree out there?

[Historian]

Wouldn't it be funny though, if they won out?

12-5, then win a WC, Div, AFCCG to the SB?

Yea, I think it's more likely Dorsey ends up on Dabol's staff, lol

[DetoxTent]

Good. It's about time. Still hold McDermott accountable for this mid-season bull**** that should have never happened except he didn't recognize his bad hire until too late.

No. Let's put it on Josh Allen. It's time to stop babying him. Jalen Hurts came after him and went to a Super Bowl. Let's admit that Josh is not the great QB that everybody says he is. He is far too babied by the Bills. He needs to grow up and be a man. Because he's not that.

[DetoxTent]

Time to call Josh Rosen.

[Mad Max]

Likely much too late for this season but good riddance, the offense isn’t going to be any worse under Brady.

Also terrific is the standpoint that McDermot is now out of scapegoats, first Frazier now Dorsey. He is fully naked.

I previously said that McDermot would have until mid season next year, with this firing I think he has the rest of this year to show or (made to) go.

[DetoxTent]

Guys....look on the bright side:
We will never see Allen in the shotgun on 4th and one inch ever again!!!!!

Holy smokes. Allen was the one that wanted Dorsey to be the OC. When does Josh Allen get criticized? WTF?

[Mad Max]

Holy smokes. Allen was the one that wanted Dorsey to be the OC. When does Josh Allen get criticized? WTF?
Read up my man (and watch the vlogs) the Boy Scout is getting torched by legion of Bills fans (not even including fans of other teams).

[sukie]

Allen has no idea what a good OC is. He wanted his buddy period. Even he didn’t know Dorsey suctioned like a 220 rewired Dyson.

[Forward_Lateral]

Holy smokes. Allen was the one that wanted Dorsey to be the OC. When does Josh Allen get criticized? WTF?

Josh is a player. If they made the decision to hire based on what Josh wanted, then that’s a real organizational problem

[DetoxTent]

Josh is a player. If they made the decision to hire based on what Josh wanted, then that’s a real organizational problem
Funny how the fans supported it all when the hire happened and folks like you look awfully hypocritical right now.

[sukie]

Fans like me assumed a passing game coordinator and a former QB could have learned something from his predecessor.
In fact the playing experience at QB gave us hope that he would be equal to or better to f not at least close.

[sukie]

Funny how the fans supported it all when the hire happened and folks like you look awfully hypocritical right now.
Do fans hire coordinators? The above comment makes zero sense.

[Jimkelly12203]

Funny how the fans supported it all when the hire happened and folks like you look awfully hypocritical right now.
So, Josh Allen has been (objectively) the best QB in the league one year and maybe second best another year. Going into this year we all thought maybe third best.

Sure you have your Jalen Hurts people, but he's not that good. They just have a dominating OL. He's not bad, don't get me wrong, but he's not an awe inspiring talent.

Herbert is right up there, but look at the mess he plays for. Well we are that mess now.

It made perfect sense to give the indisputable second (or first depending on who you ask) quarterback the offensive coordinator that he favored at the time. In fact, it would have arguably have been utter madness not to give him a guy that was already on the staff who was his QB coach, a great college QB and who he had a good rapport with.

UTTER MADNESS!

But that experiment is over now. In hind sight, of course it was folly to let a 27 year old kid with the world placed on his shoulders pick his pal to call plays. But it did make sense at the time.

The good news is that there should be a legion of proven OCs that would love to come here and work with what we have. Its on McBeane to pick the right one.

And the future of their careers, this organization and Josh Allen will depend on the choice they make.

No pressure McBeane.

And no. Sean isn't getting fired. I know people want that. Maybe (maybe?) i do too.

It isn't happening folks...

At least not yet.

[Woodman]

WHAT THE **** DOES MATT ARAIZA HAVE TO DO WITH KEN DORSEY!!??

JESUS!

this is the LEAST of our problems right now

TAKE CARE OF ALL OF IT ...... field position killed us and there's a way to fix it.

[Forward_Lateral]

Funny how the fans supported it all when the hire happened and folks like you look awfully hypocritical right now.

Lol

We supported it, because we thought Dorsey learned from Daboll. We were wrong.

It’s not hypocrisy, it’s called holding people accountable.

Gimme a break.

[Mad Max]

So, Josh Allen has been (objectively) the best QB in the league one year and maybe second best another year. Going into this year we all thought maybe third best.

Sure you have your Jalen Hurts people, but he's not that good. They just have a dominating OL. He's not bad, don't get me wrong, but he's not an awe inspiring talent.

Herbert is right up there, but look at the mess he plays for. Well we are that mess now.

It made perfect sense to give the indisputable second (or first depending on who you ask) quarterback the offensive coordinator that he favored at the time. In fact, it would have arguably have been utter madness not to give him a guy that was already on the staff who was his QB coach, a great college QB and who he had a good rapport with.

UTTER MADNESS!

But that experiment is over now. In hind sight, of course it was folly to let a 27 year old kid with the world placed on his shoulders pick his pal to call plays. But it did make sense at the time.

The good news is that there should be a legion of proven OCs that would love to come here and work with what we have. Its on McBeane to pick the right one.

And the future of their careers, this organization and Josh Allen will depend on the choice they make.

No pressure McBeane.

And no. Sean isn't getting fired. I know people want that. Maybe (maybe?) i do too.

It isn't happening folks...

At least not yet.

Out of college? Yes, of course, many of them would jump at the chance/pay upgrade. Out of the NFL? Doubtful. OCs that are considered good/great are already on good/great teams and aren’t going anywhere except into HC jobs.

[jamze132]

Fans like me assumed a passing game coordinator and a former QB could have learned something from his predecessor.
In fact the playing experience at QB gave us hope that he would be equal to or better to f not at least close.

Exactly. We were duped.

[Woodman]

Let's win the ring and worry about that later ...

[Woodman]

Lol

We supported it, because we thought Dorsey learned from Daboll. We were wrong.



:cheers:

Exactly we trusted it was a good decision ..... it was not that's it that's all.

[JoeMama]

Now do McDermott.

***** ass white version of Marvin Lewis.

[YardRat]

I forgot who said it on TV, sort of heard off the press as well, that NFL defensive players are saying Bills offense is very predictable. Yes it is a complex playbook but something (formation, players, etc.) just gave defense a hint on what we want to do. That is on OC. Remember this past off season when teams said they can watch Taron Johnson's positioning to predict what the defensive call is, half the time?

That's on McDermott.

If the quality control guys on the coaching staff aren't scouting our own offense (and defense, for that matter) for tendencies, what the hell are they doing?

[Historian]

Now do McDermott.

***** ass white version of Marvin Lewis.

I disagree.

He is Andy Reid at the beginning of his career.

Reid lost SEVEN Championship games before he won a Super Bowl.

The man is still learning on the job, and compiled a very good W-L record whilst doing it.

Patience.

[Forward_Lateral]

I disagree.

He is Andy Reid at the beginning of his career.

Reid lost SEVEN Championship games before he won a Super Bowl.

The man is still learning on the job, and compiled a very good W-L record whilst doing it.

Patience.

I think he's closer to Dungy than Reid.

[jamze132]

Now do McDermott.

***** ass white version of Marvin Lewis.

Yay, you managed to bring race into the thread. Shocker…

[Chet]

I disagree.

He is Andy Reid at the beginning of his career.

Reid lost SEVEN Championship games before he won a Super Bowl.

The man is still learning on the job, and compiled a very good W-L record whilst doing it.

Patience.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one here. Reid’s teams overachieved for the most part, with the 2002 and 2003 NFCCG being glaring shortcomings. His 2000, 2001, 2004, 2008, and 2010 coaching jobs were especially exceptional. 2011 was his biggest failure with the “Dream Team,” complicated further by his awful choice in coordinators that season.

McDermott’s teams overachieved from 2017-2020, and have fallen off a cliff in consistency, discipline and adjustments since then.One can certainly argue we’ve had more talent these 3 years than the overachieving ones, too.

He coaches scared, can’t motivate, and can’t adjust. Also recognizes problems way too late and no longer has the respect of the players. He gotsta go

[sukie]

https://twitter.com/brotherbill716/status/1724498777665339799?s=46&t=8MLqqCM3X4b-oVRmy1W11Q


this is telling of what the issue really was.

[Skooby]

https://twitter.com/brotherbill716/status/1724498777665339799?s=46&t=8MLqqCM3X4b-oVRmy1W11Q


this is telling of what the issue really was.

Geez, talk about why we can’t score as much. I’m sure Josh was told to throw it there too, triple coverage be damned.

[sukie]

Geez, talk about why we can’t score as much. I’m sure Josh was told to throw it there too, triple coverage be damned.

The DBs know what’s coming and bait the throw.

[Woodman]

That’s fine, but my larger issue was the hijacking of this thread by mentioning Sam Martin who has nothing to do with how ****ty Ken Dorsey was

But while we are feeding into woods hijacking, I’d also argue that the punt coverage and poor tackling was bigger than Sam Martin

Fair enough I just really believe this Matt Araiza kid makes us better ..... jmo. :cheers:

Apologies for any hijacking.

[Mad Max]

Geez, talk about why we can’t score as much. I’m sure Josh was told to throw it there too, triple coverage be damned.
Most of us pleb fans shot called the predictability of Dorsey’s offense, of course the pros were gonna surgically dissect it.
Add to that predictability the Boy Scouts glory addiction and carelessness and you get to 5-5 on a team that should easily have been 8-2/9-1

[Mad Max]

Fair enough I just really believe this Matt Araiza kid makes us better ..... jmo. :cheers:

Apologies for any hijacking.

You definitely hijacked…but you’re not wrong.

This game is about gaining as many edges in as many areas as you can. Araiza would give us a clear edge in punting and his name has been cleared. We should bring him back.

[Historian]

Funny how the fans supported it all when the hire happened and folks like you look awfully hypocritical right now.

I didn't....I said that it was a mistake, because he was not ready.

Funny too, because last year when the Bills were clearly the class of the division, I remember hearing a commentator say that Dorsey should be considered for a HC position. (Could have been Charles Davis, I don't remember)

My son rolls his eyes, turns to me and says..." Do they allow alcohol in the press box????"

I almost soiled myself.

[Historian]

kscdogbillsfan1221[/B]That’s fine, but my larger issue was the hijacking of this thread by mentioning Sam Martin who has nothing to do with how ****ty Ken Dorsey was

Yea, he should have started his own thread, however.....

The Bills have really been behind the 8 ball this season as far as field position.

A couple of their drives this year are 95+ yards.

I can't remember which team they drove 98 yards against, but remember, any play caller is limited in what he can call inside his own 10.

So we get bogged down, and can only punt to the opponent's 35 or 40, it hurts.

It's not a large amount of his issue, but it certainly didn't help either.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

That's on McDermott.
If the quality control guys on the coaching staff aren't scouting our own offense (and defense, for that matter) for tendencies, what the hell are they doing?

Dan Orlovsky also pointed that out on OBL. The one example he gave is the 2 by 2 set where pretty much 2 plays out of that formation. Another one is that if Dawkins is pulling to the right side, it is a run to the Torrence side, no exceptions (and pretty successful in general as far as run play is concerned).

It works if the execution is great, like 90% level. But right now, the Bills are NOT executing at that level. Against a D like the Jets, you are almost certain not going to execute at that level period, with or without the funk they are in. So scheming become important to have a greater chance to get big plays. Dorsey is more of giving Josh the right play, expecting him to execute to the high level we all expect. not someone scheming things for a "layup".

The league catches up to you ruthlessly. Mahomes, Allen, Hurts all had great runs of broken plays resulting big plays, you see now a lot less of those from all of them because defenses study them and become more disciplined in those situations. I feel like Josh needs another elevation of his game, probably from a new innovative offensive minded OC at this point of his career. There are rare ones like Tom Brady/Peyton Manning who love the game so much that they reinvent themselves throughout their career on their own, and I'm sorry to say Josh is not one of them; he can still be a HOF though.

[Forward_Lateral]

https://twitter.com/brotherbill716/status/1724498777665339799?s=46&t=8MLqqCM3X4b-oVRmy1W11Q


this is telling of what the issue really was.

A few of us have been saying this weeks, if not months.

Dorsey didn't scheme anyone open. Dorsey didn't change the game plan or the plays week to week, to throw teams off, to make them less predictable.

Why wouldn't you have a bunch of plays schemed to get the ball to Diggs every week? Why wouldn't change your tendencies from different formations to make teams guess instead of knowing what you are going to do?

I have NO idea why it's taken 10 weeks for something to be done. This not only falls on Dorsey, it falls on the entire organization. If a bozo like me can spot this stuff from my couch, then a coach/gm/scout/whatever else there is who gets paid millions of dollars should have no problem seeing that the offense is predictable, making it easily defensed.

This is so maddening and frustrating and it just makes you wonder if McDermott even has a clue about anything to do with offense.

[sukie]

Like in that “twitter” passage I posted above. If defenders knew that if Gabe lined up a certain way he was running possibly only 2 routes and at the snap the route was exposed… what about Diggs, Shakir , the professor, Mary Ann?

they would also know that Gabe wasn’t primary as well. That is information that is better than cheating because it’s legal.

Dorsey was either lazy or stupidly foolish… or ignorantly arrogant which is terrifying

[JoeMama]

Yay, you managed to bring race into the thread. Shocker…

Yay, you’re a Karen/s n o w f l a k e. Shocker…

If you’d prefer, I can make bald jokes about McD instead of white guy jokes. Whenever you get your parties out of a bunch.

[JoeMama]

I disagree.

He is Andy Reid at the beginning of his career.

Reid lost SEVEN Championship games before he won a Super Bowl.

The man is still learning on the job, and compiled a very good W-L record whilst doing it.

Patience.

Naw.

Reid is an offensive genius who just didn’t have the right QB. He coached up some really mediocre teams.

There’s no future for McD. He’s a defensive coach in an offensive oriented league. He’s a dinosaur, and worse, he never out coaches anyone. He’s too dumb.

We need a coach with a higher IQ than mouth breather bald loser McD.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I don't think Joe Brady can do much to change drastically mid-season. But one thing he can do: just do your stuff, be free. And add change slowly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jITdRpeV6t0

[Historian]

I think he's closer to Dungy than Reid.

And I'd take either over GreggMularkyJauronGaileyMarroneRex.

I'm tellin ya, be careful what you wish for.

[jamze132]

Yay, you’re a Karen/s n o w f l a k e. Shocker…

If you’d prefer, I can make bald jokes about McD instead of white guy jokes. Whenever you get your parties out of a bunch.

I know the spin zone is closed and this forum isn’t for your racist rhetoric. Hard for you isn’t it…

[Skooby]

Guys white / black / yellow / green let’s all love each other as Bills fans, never met one I don’t like.

[Woodman]

Guys white / black / yellow / green let’s all love each other as Bills fans, never met one I don’t like.
It allows the suffering to be spread out! :cheers:

[sukie]

Guys white / black / yellow / green let’s all love each other as Bills fans, never met one I don’t like.
The Canadian ones with the voluminous morning wet stools… hard to like sometimes.

[Mad Max]

It allows the suffering to be spread out! :cheers:

Not even Opi? (I keed I keed)

[Forward_Lateral]

And I'd take either over GreggMularkyJauronGaileyMarroneRex.

I'm tellin ya, be careful what you wish for.

I agree, BUT, those teams didn't have Josh Allen. They had absolute poo at the QB spot, with the exception of a few good seasons, but for the most part, they were horrible.

This team has the most talent on it in decades, and they are squandering it.

[sukie]

I agree, BUT, those teams didn't have Josh Allen. They had absolute poo at the QB spot, with the exception of a few good seasons, but for the most part, they were horrible.

This team has the most talent on it in decades, and they are squandering it.
Let’s break this down… is this the best WR room versus those other teams? How about rushing attack?

the offense has Josh and Diggs then me, Yardie, and Lecter (running post patterns while holding his “post”).

[Forward_Lateral]

Let’s break this down… is this the best WR room versus those other teams? How about rushing attack?

the offense has Josh and Diggs then me, Yardie, and Lecter (running post patterns while holding his “post”).
Diggs is better than any Bills WR in Bills history not named Andre Reed

[sukie]

Diggs is better than any Bills WR in Bills history not named Andre Reed
Reed had Beebe and Lofton
Yes… granted but the 10,000 ft drop off after him is really really bad. The point was he (Diggs) has no help… and a shot to give you a visual of Lecter prancing around cupping his pee pee.

[Forward_Lateral]

Reed had Beebe and Lofton
Yes… granted but the 10,000 ft drop off after him is really really bad. The point was he (Diggs) has no help… and a shot to give you a visual of Lecter prancing around cupping his pee pee.
Here's my point.

Any coach with a brain would be scheming to get Diggs open and get him the ball 10 times a game. Those aforementioned bozos that Historian brought up would have enough brains to do that.

If you gave Chan Gailey Josh Allen and Stef Diggs, the would would end.

[sukie]

Naturally you scheme to get the ball into the hands of your star. Agreed. You also scheme and have plays for each team you face. Plays that give your players best chance of success.

im glad KD is gone.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Here's my point.

Any coach with a brain would be scheming to get Diggs open and get him the ball 10 times a game. Those aforementioned bozos that Historian brought up would have enough brains to do that.

If you gave Chan Gailey Josh Allen and Stef Diggs, the would would end.

Agreed

chan galley made Fitzpatrick, spiller and stevie Johnson must see tv

cannot imagine what he’d do with Allen, cook and diggs

[sukie]

Makes Dorsey’s ineptness amazingly hard to comprehend.

[Woodman]

Diggs is better than any Bills WR in Bills history not named Andre Reed
I like Eric Moulds and Bob Chandler.

[Historian]

Or Rashad
Or Butler
Or Lewis
Or Briscoe
Or Duby

[Woodman]

Or Rashad
Or Butler
Or Lewis
Or Briscoe
Or Duby


Marlin the magician. :cheers:

[Forward_Lateral]

Or Rashad
Or Butler
Or Lewis
Or Briscoe
Or Duby
I get your point, and part of me agrees, but you can't honestly tell me that you are pleased with how things have gone at the end of last season and the first 10 games of this season. Doesn't it reek of poor leadership to you? We've all seen it before. Coaches come in and the team looks great, then eventually they just keep repeating what they've done, and the league figures it out, they make zero adjustments and the team starts to revert to it's old ways. QBs trying to force things, making mistakes, etc. I just think that McDermott needs to take a long, hard look at himself in the mirror and ask "is my philosophy really a long term solution, or do I need to adapt". I'm not saying he's all bad. He's done a great job with the defense, especially considering they are playing with a MASH unit right now. They shut the Bengals down completely in the 2nd half, and pretty much did the same to Denver, with the exception of the 4th quarter. His problem is he has little offensive aptitude. The sooner he realizes that, and realizes that he needs to loosen his grip, the better.

[sukie]

Rashad was a Viking great

butler wasn’t that great

Lewis best years prior to Buffalo

not familiar with Briscoes work or what a Duby is

[Forward_Lateral]

Rashad was a Viking great

butler wasn’t that great

Lewis best years prior to Buffalo

not familiar with Briscoes work or what a Duby is
I think a Duby is either something you smoke, or droopy boobies

[sahlensguy]

A duby we're brothers.

[Skooby]

A duby we're brothers.

Perfect.

[ParanoidAndroid]

**** McDermott. Few days ago he had full confidence. Today the bottom falls out. He is the one making dumb **** happen not anyone else ...
He has always been reserved against any negative speech or even inferring it in public. It's rare to get him to say anything negative about his players or staff. I'm not sure I could find anything outside of him maybe saying "he's not ready" when referring to a player who is riding the pine.

It's just part of his coaching philosophy.

Tough conversations happen in-house.

I highly, highly doubt there were no conversations before this firing.

Could you imagine what that would do to other coaching staff if he was just suddenly canned without any prior performance conversations?

McDermott isn't the best coach in the whole wide world but he isn't unable to understand basic personnel management.

The ****?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yay, you managed to bring race into the thread. Shocker…
Noticing the color of someone's skin to make an innocuous comparison is not racist.

You wanna know what's racist? When some one says "I don't see color."

You're way too sensitive.

Don't ever watch a Richard Pryor show.

[notacon]

I disagree.

He is Andy Reid at the beginning of his career.

Reid lost SEVEN Championship games before he won a Super Bowl.

The man is still learning on the job, and compiled a very good W-L record whilst doing it.

Patience.

Andy Reid became a "great coach" as soon as he got Patrick Mahomes.

I've done my own research and analysis on the reality of KC since Reid became coach in responding to Chet's question....


The fact is they (KC) have multiple SBs, their floor is the AFCCG, and they don’t make excuses. They just keep winning. I’m curious why you think the Bills haven’t done that

My (edited) response...



Simple.

Patrick Mahomes.

Josh Allen is an elite QB for sure, and the reason the Bills are considered, and will continue to be considered SB contenders. He makes astounding plays with his arm and legs. A true gunslinger that can do it ALL on the field, make every throw.

The FACT is that Mahomes is simply better than any other NFL QB today, (including Josh Allen) and it's by quite a significant margin.

Why???

He RARELY makes boneheaded mistakes. When he does....like in the AFCC game vs Cincy when he made a rookie mistake at the end of the first half giving up a sure FG, to his EPICALLY awful performance in OT....the Chiefs are much more likely to lose.

When Josh Allen plays mistake free football, the Bills are almost unstoppable.

Back to Andy Reid....the Chiefs were a very good team with a very good QB, Alex Smith (with Kelce) from his first year with KC. Their playoff success?? Not much.

2013 - one and out - lost in WC round
2014 - missed playoffs
2015 - won WC, lost Div to NE and Brady
2016 - one and out - lost in Div to Pittsburgh (did not play in WC, they were #2 seed)
2017 - one and out - lost to Tenn in WC


For the math challenged, that is a 1-4 record.

2018 Patrick Mahomes takes over as starting QB....

2018 - lost in AFCC to NE and Brady (they had fist round bye via #1 seed)
2019 - won Super Bowl beating HOU in Div, and Tenn in AFCC. Did not have to play against NE and Brady. (they had fist round bye via #2 seed)
2020 - lost SB to Tampa Bay and TOM BRADY. (they had fist round bye via #1 seed) - Bills get #2 seed but because of playoff change do NOT get first round bye.
2021 - lost to Cincy in AFCC - they did NOT get first round bye
2022 - won SB - (they had fist round bye via #1 seed)

Sensing a pattern here???? No Mahomes, no success. Mahomes - great success.

Same with Belichick and Brady.

Same with Paul Brown and Otto Graham (yes, the great Paul Brown never won a championship without Otto Graham at QB).

Same with Vince Lombardi and Bart Starr (yes, the great Vince Lombardi never won a championship without Bart Starr at QB).

When Josh Allen starts playing mistake free football at the level of Mahomes and Brady, the Bills will see success.

Josh Allen, although he is an elite QB, is NOT playing like one AT ALL most of this season. Right now, he is a liability.

Allen WAS close to Mahomes (and the other top QB's in the NFL) but, lately, he's barely average. When his glaring mistakes are taken into relative consideration, he is causing more losses than wins.

I won't post what Joe B. wrote in his "All-22" film analysis (it's superbly excellent well worth the subscription cost...and the whining and insulting directed his way is always form those that DON'T pony up for a sub to The Athletic, and therefore don't actually read what he writes....so their lame opinions on him are based on blatant ignorance) but suffice to say it was extremely accurate in the scathing critique of Allen's terrible performance vs Denver.

The sub title and first sentence for the section analyzing Allen performance tells all...

"Josh Allen deserves a lot of the blame for Monday night’s offensive woes"

"After watching the film, it’s apparent franchise quarterback Josh Allen cost the team dearly, and had he been just a bit better, the Bills likely would have walked out of Monday with a victory."

<style> {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}@font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#222222;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.5pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Verdana; color:#222222; mso-font-kerning:0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSect</style> <style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}@font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#222222;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.5pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Verdana; color:#222222; mso-font-kerning:0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style> Allen was graded DEAD LAST of all the players....a grade he richly deserved.

In the years of reading Joe's ALL-22 film analysis, Allen has never been graded that low.

Until he plays closer to what he is capable, the Bills will be a major disappointment.

I hope that he shows signs of doing exactly that, starting this Sunday.

[Woodman]

Rashad was a Viking great

butler wasn’t that great

Lewis best years prior to Buffalo

not familiar with Briscoes work or what a Duby is

19984


Elbert "Golden Wheels" Dubenion

[Woodman]

19984


Elbert "Golden Wheels" Dubenion
This is a Duby ...... Sukie

[Skooby]

This didn’t change a F-N thing.

[Chet]

This holiday I’m thankful this impostor is gone from our team

[notacon]

This holiday I’m thankful this impostor is gone from our team

Except Brady was still working with Dorsey's offense....Dorsey's schemes, which Joe Brady worked alongside to to develop games plans all year long.

The biggest difference this game was Josh did not play with his head up his ass, and did not turn the ball over (the hail Mary INT is irreverent). The effect of Dorsey getting fired was more forcing Josh to look in the mirror and clean up his dreadful act.

The offense STILL looked sluggish the first half, and THE biggest assist to the offense was the defense (and special teams) doing something that has been completely foreign (and avoided like herpes) to them the past 6 games....they actually got turnovers.

First interception by the Bills since WEEK FOUR vs Miami....while Josh had at least one INT in every one of those games.

What is the "imposter" is blaming Ken Dorsey for that dismally bad reality.....NONE of which is his fault.

[sukie]

Buffalo
is 4th in team takeaways this season through 11. (1.7 per game)

2nd in Sacks per game (3.5) which is refreshing.

[sahlensguy]

Buffalo
is 4th in team takeaways this season through 11. (1.7 per game)

2nd in Sacks per game (3.5) which is refreshing.

Wow. Just imagine if we were healthy!

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The biggest difference this game was Josh did not play with his head up his ass, and did not turn the ball over (the hail Mary INT is irreverent). The effect of Dorsey getting fired was more forcing Josh to look in the mirror and clean up his dreadful act.

The offense STILL looked sluggish the first half, and THE biggest assist to the offense was the defense (and special teams) doing something that has been completely foreign (and avoided like herpes) to them the past 6 games....they actually got turnovers.


I agree with the statement that Josh played better this game. I don't agree the offense is sluggish first half. They moved ball on Jets, not the 3 and outs we saw so much last few weeks. That, combined with the 3 and outs of Jets offense, gave the Bills defense rest and time to adjustment their plan based on
what they see in the game.

Yes they scored 9 points first 3 possessions. But redzone against a D like the Jets has been difficult, not just the Bills.

And I want to mention the calls were better. Few untimely shots down field and -- I hope someone break down the film later --- the running game was surprisingly better, against a stout Jets D front, no less. An OC is not just Xs and Os, it needs to have a feel for the game and call the right things.

Lastly I want to mention the execution overall by the offense is better. This might be something hidden behind the game, like Wed/Thurs/Fri team works. There was some little noise on Dorsey's firing, maybe even speculation that the offensive preparation lacked a little details to McDermott's liking. Blocking technique, positioning etc. This game, I feel overall is fairly clean other than a few unnecessary roughness with the hate of two teams. We hear Dorsey is aggressive in plan design and play calling. But coaching hard Wednesday thru Saturday is as important to make sure people don't make stupid mistakes.

[Chet]

Except Brady was still working with Dorsey's offense....Dorsey's schemes, which Joe Brady worked alongside to to develop games plans all year long.

The biggest difference this game was Josh did not play with his head up his ass, and did not turn the ball over (the hail Mary INT is irreverent). The effect of Dorsey getting fired was more forcing Josh to look in the mirror and clean up his dreadful act.

The offense STILL looked sluggish the first half, and THE biggest assist to the offense was the defense (and special teams) doing something that has been completely foreign (and avoided like herpes) to them the past 6 games....they actually got turnovers.

First interception by the Bills since WEEK FOUR vs Miami....while Josh had at least one INT in every one of those games.

What is the "imposter" is blaming Ken Dorsey for that dismally bad reality.....NONE of which is his fault.

He’s gone and he’s not coming back. Embrace it and get over it.

This time next year he’ll be coordinating the kitchen at Applebees

[sukie]

Yeah the interceptions and fumbles were a thing but that still doesn’t excuse the fact drives stalled and there were punts. Drives stalled after a lot of 3-7 3-8 or longer. Drives stalled because there was no identity to the offense. Runs worked then abandoned next series. It was disjointed. Sure Brady is using that playbook but it seemed better assembled.

[Mad Max]

Yeah the interceptions and fumbles were a thing but that still doesn’t excuse the fact drives stalled and there were punts. Drives stalled after a lot of 3-7 3-8 or longer. Drives stalled because there was no identity to the offense. Runs worked then abandoned next series. It was disjointed. Sure Brady is using that playbook but it seemed better assembled.

Correct. Same playbook, much better play selection out of that playbook overall and especially situationally. Misdirection…who knew you could do that? Disciplined play calling, as opposed to abandoning what’s working. There was rhythm, there was flow.

McDermott alluded to such…you could literally see and hear his relief.

Felt like night and day.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Pretty sure it's not a spur of the moment thing for McDermott to fire Dorsey. A lot of the background work like checking with Brady to see his opinion of the offense etc. already done. Also feeling the heat of McDermott's own seat. Bottomline, McDermott had some idea what he would get to do this in a short week (no less).

[Woodman]

Wow. Just imagine if we were healthy!

We might be dangerous.

[Mad Max]

We would have been more dangerous.

Fixed it for you

[Woodman]

Fixed it for you

I always **** up the easy ones. :cheers:

[notacon]

I agree with the statement that Josh played better this game. I don't agree the offense is sluggish first half. They moved ball on Jets, not the 3 and outs we saw so much last few weeks. That, combined with the 3 and outs of Jets offense, gave the Bills defense rest and time to adjustment their plan based on
what they see in the game.

Yes they scored 9 points first 3 possessions. But redzone against a D like the Jets has been difficult, not just the Bills.

And I want to mention the calls were better. Few untimely shots down field and -- I hope someone break down the film later --- the running game was surprisingly better, against a stout Jets D front, no less. An OC is not just Xs and Os, it needs to have a feel for the game and call the right things.

Lastly I want to mention the execution overall by the offense is better. This might be something hidden behind the game, like Wed/Thurs/Fri team works. There was some little noise on Dorsey's firing, maybe even speculation that the offensive preparation lacked a little details to McDermott's liking. Blocking technique, positioning etc. This game, I feel overall is fairly clean other than a few unnecessary roughness with the hate of two teams. We hear Dorsey is aggressive in plan design and play calling. But coaching hard Wednesday thru Saturday is as important to make sure people don't make stupid mistakes.

Good post.

Although I'm not sure if "And I want to mention the calls were better. Few untimely shots down field and --" is accurate. We just don't know and never will know.

It is probably more likely that Josh just made better decisions. McD referred to that in this quote in the Buffalo News (https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-touchdowns-mahomes-marino-nfl/article_f845089e-87e9-11ee-9614-2be40b1bbd36.html)....


“I just think overall, Josh’s play, he was very in control in the game,” head coach Sean McDermott said after the 32-6 victory. “Not that it was easy, but it was easy, just in terms of he was taking what the defense was giving him, our players in the flats were in on the ball and checkdowns and making people miss in space. And so that’s good. It’s one thing to throw a checkdown, another thing for it to get tackled. ... In space, our players were making plays.”

In past games, watching the ALL-22 film, some of his worst mistakes were when he ignored an open receiver in the flat, or a check-down guy, and instead made the risky low percentage "shot down the field".

Josh is in his sixth season. He should know by now when to check-down and take what the defense gives him and when to chuck it downfield. Maybe firing Dorsey made him look in the mirror as he was responsible for getting his friend and coach fired. He has admitted to such.

It was written all over his face in his post game interview. Instead of looking happy he was downright dour. It really shows if you watch this video and turn down the sound and forget that the Bills came off a blow out win.


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Josh is going to have to live with that guilt, as his turnover machine habits (which has almost nothing to do with the OC or HC) caused Dorsey to be the fall guy and scapegoat.

With that said, I hope Joe Brady is able to rise to the occasion and do the job!! Josh can make that much easier by playing up to his capability and act like the sixth year elite QB that he is. He has fallen way short too many times this season....and he knows it! <style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}@font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#222222;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.5pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Verdana; color:#222222; mso-font-kerning:0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style>