Does the Dorsey firing appease you?

[Novacane]

A couple of weeks ago this move would have given me some hope. To make it today I don't really even care now. I don't expect this to fix much.

[Typ0]

It is two weeks too late .... kinda like Von needs a surgery let's wait 10 extra days before we get that done. It's thing after thing after thing that is botched and/or late.

[Forward_Lateral]

No.

Is it justified? Yes. He's been absolutely terrible.

Is it too late? Probably.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

it's a start. it should finish with McDermott

That would appease me

[Mr. Pink]

I don't think anything really changes from this move.

It looks like a save face move for McDermott to try and buy him more time by making Dorsey the scapegoat for the problems.

The problem is Marty McDermott's fingerprints and stench are all over this team

[Canadian'eh!]

Not really.

it was definitely a needed step, but I still feel McD is standing in the way of taking this team further

[notacon]

Nope. Like I said here on the "Dorsey was just fired...." thread....


Scapegoat to protect Allen's massive regression. He simply is not a very good QB right now. In a QB driven league that is the kiss of death.

They can't fire Josh so this is the next best thing.

Probably won't make a difference, but hopefully it will. I really don't care much anymore. Like I said here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264248-Anyone-still-think-this-team-is-a-contender?p=5060750&viewfull=1#post5060750)I'm done defending this confounding, disappointing mess of a team.

[Novacane]

Nope. Like I said here on the "Dorsey was just fired...." thread....

The question is why isn't he a very good QB right now? Dorsey? McD? The Hollywood chasing diva speculation? How does a guy go from being on a HOF trajectory to a guy I can't even stand looking at?

[ParanoidAndroid]

No. But now I won't get pissed off after they turn the ball over on the first offensive drive.

I have no expectations other than failure so I can relax and have a good laugh.

He should never have been the OC. He wasn't ready, and honestly, it wasn't fair to him or the Bills offensive players who deserved a top notch coordinator to take them to a Superbowl. He should have remained the QB coach.

McDermott's days are numbered.

[kingJofNYC]

Not really, if anything thinks makes me think we're closer to blowing the whole thing up which can always be dangerous.

[Borosai]

It was now or at the end of the season, so I'm okay with the firing, but it's not enough.

[notacon]

The question is why isn't he a very good QB right now? Dorsey? McD? The Hollywood chasing diva speculation? How does a guy go from being on a HOF trajectory to a guy I can't even stand looking at?

He has to look in the mirror.

Trying to shift the accountability onto coaches is lame.

Reminds me of when when a child gets crappy grades and tires to blame the teacher. I never bought that baloney when my kids tried it (rarely because of the reaction my wife and I had when they tried it ONCE) and certainly am not going to buy it for a quarter of a BILLION dollar QB.

[Historian]

He should have never been given the job in the first place!

Depends on who you bring in to replace him.

Now if McDermott is going to Coach the Offense, the Defense and the whole team....you have a problem.

And if Josh doesn't like it....tough noogies.

This is a business, not a popularity contest.

[sukie]

I am appeased. The appeasement isn’t cast in stone and is just for now. Let’s see how Brady calls a game or 2 before I pass judgement there.

[Typ0]

I am not appeased .... and no one cares about appeasing me anyway.

[OpIv37]

it was necessary but it's merely the first step. A lot more changes need to be made before we have any hope of being good again

[sukie]

Oh just be appeased… FFS.

[Mr. Pink]

it was necessary but it's merely the first step. A lot more changes need to be made before we have any hope of being good again

I think the whole coaching staff and front office needs to be blown up, plus the majority of the roster.

I don't trust Beane and the scouting to bring in the proper players to rebuild/retool this roster around Allen.

But the team should be built offensively around Allen, Cook and Kincaid. Get Diggs out of here after next year for whatever massive haul you should get for him. Get Knox out of here as well after next year. Davis, gone after this year. Rebuild the o-line through the next two drafts and FA. Get rid of a lot of the older talent on the defensive side of the ball.

Our roster is old and is showing it's not good enough to win. The window has closed on this version of the Bills and we need to start anew to begin a new window. Which is very difficult to do when you're shelling out big dollars to numerous players let alone the QB.

[OpIv37]

I think the whole coaching staff and front office needs to be blown up, plus the majority of the roster.

I don't trust Beane and the scouting to bring in the proper players to rebuild/retool this roster around Allen.

But the team should be built offensively around Allen, Cook and Kincaid. Get Diggs out of here after next year for whatever massive haul you should get for him. Get Knox out of here as well after next year. Davis, gone after this year. Rebuild the o-line through the next two drafts and FA. Get rid of a lot of the older talent on the defensive side of the ball.

Our roster is old and is showing it's not good enough to win. The window has closed on this version of the Bills and we need to start anew to begin a new window. Which is very difficult to do when you're shelling out big dollars to numerous players let alone the QB.

I just said essentially the same thing in another thread.

[Chet]

I want more blood, but I am appeased with the initial postmortem

[YardRat]

No, I don't think Dorsey was as big of an issue as others do.

#1 is Josh and his performance, I'll keep repeating myself he has been regressing since 13 seconds.
#2 is McDermott, his fake 'humble and hungry' has infected the entire team and every time they show up clueless and unprepared that's on him.
#3 has been the over-rated defense the last couple of seasons.
#4 may be Dorsey, but a)everybody had the same complaints about Daboll they are airing about Dorsey and Josh/McD are the only constants over the last several seasons, and b)Beane is tied at 4 with Dorsey, he's wasted too many premium assets on mediocre players/over-drafted players/outright busts.
#5 the rest of the players and their lack of ability to be fundamentally sound, consistent, and make plays. Winners don't whiff on sacks, drop balls, take stupid penalties when the game is in the balance, losers do.

[sukie]

Josh regressed when Daboll left. Josh regressed when he stopped prioritizing work with Palmer

13 seconds was way more demoralizing to the D than Josh who left his guts on the field that night.

josh regressed when they made him a pocket passer. When was the last purposeful roll out?

josh regressed when they wanted him to not run and be Josh.

it’s like asking Marino to be Joe Ferguson .

[Historian]

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/399690740_368362159089907_7930123329675231907_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=OywE9BVdXT4AX-6uuBe&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBKSyD6Ri6Z-kTj09bNMlaCLFAc1LzVhX3CwfpWSzdizg&oe=65586548

[Jimkelly12203]

It had to happen. It isn't about appeasement. It simply had to happen. EVERYTHING this offense does looks incredibly difficult. The body language is wrong. The play calls are stupid (see e.g. shotgun on 4th and 2). There's probably a good reason Diggs went ballistic this past off season.

Ken Dorsey forgot more about football than I will ever know. But i do know this much... chemistry is a thing. When you hate your boss, you stink at your job. Forget hate... When things are weird between you and your boss, you stink at your job. Maybe Josh loves Dorsey, but all the other players hate him. Maybe they all hate him? Who the heck knows? But there's a chemistry problem that goes well beyond simply not calling a good game. Dabol and Allen had this unique like-mindedness and that's clearly not there with Dorsey and Allen.

Or, maybe the fame is just getting to Josh.

I don't know about you guys, but i'm seeing him not throwing the ball to wide open people quite regularly... Again, that could be a chemistry thing. But it is probably a little bit of both. A good OC/QB relationship can fix it all. But you tell me who that guy is? What? Are we going to fire McD and trade picks to the Giants to get Dabol back?

I honestly wouldn't be against it...

[sukie]

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/399690740_368362159089907_7930123329675231907_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=OywE9BVdXT4AX-6uuBe&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBKSyD6Ri6Z-kTj09bNMlaCLFAc1LzVhX3CwfpWSzdizg&oe=65586548

yes it will haunt Buffalo fans because we are always here. Players change coaches change.

[Jimkelly12203]

13 seconds was our year. But i try to be positive. I try to look on the bright side. At least now i have my Sundays back. In a way, coming to grips with the fact that this team is garbage is kind of liberating. I understand now that this franchise will not win a championship in my life time. It is my lot in life. And i'm ok with it.
Sort of...

But at least i don't have to worry any more. I can simply accept the fact that the NFL, the Refs, State Farm, Pfeizer, Taylor Swift and the Kansas City Mob are going to ram the Chiefs down our throats for the next decade the way the Patriots were rammed down our throats for 20 years and not care anymore.

[sukie]

It had to happen. It isn't about appeasement. It simply had to happen. EVERYTHING this offense does looks incredibly difficult. The body language is wrong. The play calls are stupid (see e.g. shotgun on 4th and 2). There's probably a good reason Diggs went ballistic this past off season.

Ken Dorsey forgot more about football than I will ever know. But i do know this much... chemistry is a thing. When you hate your boss, you stink at your job. Forget hate... When things are weird between you and your boss, you stink at your job. Maybe Josh loves Dorsey, but all the other players hate him. Maybe they all hate him? Who the heck knows? But there's a chemistry problem that goes well beyond simply not calling a good game. Dabol and Allen had this unique like-mindedness and that's clearly not there with Dorsey and Allen.

Or, maybe the fame is just getting to Josh.

I don't know about you guys, but i'm seeing him not throwing the ball to wide open people quite regularly... Again, that could be a chemistry thing. But it is probably a little bit of both. A good OC/QB relationship can fix it all. But you tell me who that guy is? What? Are we going to fire McD and trade picks to the Giants to get Dabol back?

I honestly wouldn't be against it...

Or maybe Dorsey had the same set of formations for every F he faced and was figured out (as was pointed out by someone here)

Daboll was an attacking type when he game planned (except many a 3rd Qtr)

Dorsey didn’t attack. If there was an explosive play? 9/10 it was improv between Josh and his players.

4th and 1 shotgun is all I need to give as evidence.

[Jimkelly12203]

^ agreed.

[Mace]

I'm appeased for this week. They did something aggressive, gave me some interest in seeing if Brady can do anything and how players respond. I think this season is lost, but for this week, ok, it's something.

[Mace]

No, I don't think Dorsey was as big of an issue as others do.

#1 is Josh and his performance, I'll keep repeating myself he has been regressing since 13 seconds.
#2 is McDermott, his fake 'humble and hungry' has infected the entire team and every time they show up clueless and unprepared that's on him.
#3 has been the over-rated defense the last couple of seasons.
#4 may be Dorsey, but a)everybody had the same complaints about Daboll they are airing about Dorsey and Josh/McD are the only constants over the last several seasons, and b)Beane is tied at 4 with Dorsey, he's wasted too many premium assets on mediocre players/over-drafted players/outright busts.
#5 the rest of the players and their lack of ability to be fundamentally sound, consistent, and make plays. Winners don't whiff on sacks, drop balls, take stupid penalties when the game is in the balance, losers do.

Yeah and no.

1- Allen actually hasn't. Last season he was on a pace through 5 or so games to threaten Manning's passing yardage record. Then he fell off the cliff. Past the 1st game, he was revving again this season, then fell off the cliff. Both seasons, he didn't come out regressing, he came out looking like JFA. Don't know the answer, suspect McDermott one way or another, it's McDermott-ish.
2- Absolutely. They need x's and o's, not clapping, they're a vet team now, not a patched together team of castoffs needing redemption.
3- Absolutely.
4- No one remembers what they were upset with Daboll about anymore. Last season, Daboll demonstrated not Bills-Daboll tendencies when given the opportunity, that leads back to McDermott imo. Beane....well, he had some whiffs, I'm not happy about the o-line, but he supplied players McDermott is reluctant to use. We needed a man corner, so McD forces him into the stubborn zone, we got a playmaker RB McD will bench after a fumble or stop targeting (maybe Dorsey ? who knows, smells like McD), a receiver who can catch that they didn't want to throw to in Shakir while Davis runs about without a jugs machine discipline, a prominent weapon TE, and they use the same stale concepts stubbornly. I don't know that's not McDermott, I'm not sure Beane hasn't done his job while managing a cap.
5-Absolutely. I can't grasp how a career defensive coach cannot implement fundamental tackling in this many years. I still don't see dynamic defensive formations that shift or adjust with an mlb signal caller directing people, they just line up and make the best of a play they can, do the same stuff and hope for the best results. Who manages these timeouts and directs his coordinators with a game plan ?

It always eventually comes back to McDermott, imo.

[sahlensguy]

Not impressed with the timing at all.

Scapegoated for last night's loss.

Speaks of McD's incompetence which isn't being addressed.

[Historian]

Maybe Josh loves Dorsey, but all the other players hate him. Maybe they all hate him? Who the heck knows? But there's a chemistry problem that goes well beyond simply not calling a good game. Dabol and Allen had this unique like-mindedness and that's clearly not there with Dorsey and Allen.

Or, maybe the fame is just getting to Josh.

.

Vic Caruicci was on Ch 2 tonight outside the stadium, discussing the events of the last 24 hours.

He kept referring to the fact that Dorsey was Josh Allen's "hand picked" successor to Brian Daboll.

That to me, is a problem in and of itself.

Josh Allen is a kid.

A 26-27 year old player, who is being paid roughly 40 million dollars a year, to play ball.

He is not some football executive who should be weighing in on personnel decisions.

Sorry.

Love the kid.

Love his talent.

But he's a player.....and a big investment.

And any input he should have into coaching decisions should be cursory at best.

Just. Go. Do. Your. Job.

[Mace]

I think that's McDermott too....he embraces mindless continuity.....I'm not sure Allen doesn't endorse whatever they do just because. I mean he was still doing it right up until the end of Dorsey, if with less enthusiasm. I don't know Allen really "handpicked" anyone more than he jumped in on status quo. If Dorsey was handpicked by Allen you'd think he'd cater to his up tempo preference and receive input and use it more...but Dorsey dug in against his jewel QB ?

I keep going back to Daboll being less than warm for his post game handshake.

[DetoxTent]

This firing doesn't expose McDermott, as someone posted. It exposes Josh Allen.

The same Josh Allen who thinks he can beat tight double coverage by just throwing the ball harder. LOL.

[sahlensguy]

Vic Caruicci was on Ch 2 tonight outside the stadium, discussing the events of the last 24 hours.

He kept referring to the fact that Dorsey was Josh Allen's "hand picked" successor to Brian Daboll.

That to me, is a problem in and of itself.

Josh Allen is a kid.

A 26-27 year old player, who is being paid roughly 40 million dollars a year, to play ball.

He is not some football executive who should be weighing in on personnel decisions.

Sorry.

Love the kid.

Love his talent.

But he's a player.....and a big investment.

And any input he should have into coaching decisions should be cursory at best.

Just. Go. Do. Your. Job.

Agreed.

Josh has said how Dorsey knows what he likes. How much of the predictably is then on Josh? Was the hand picked new guy just cratering too much to what Josh likes?

Anyway Dorsey's promotion is one that never should have happened.

[sukie]

This firing doesn't expose McDermott, as someone posted. It exposes Josh Allen.

The same Josh Allen who thinks he can beat tight double coverage by just throwing the ball harder. LOL.

this firing exposed Ken Dorsey who’s playbook was inadequate at best or grossly misused at the least. He had no game plan game in game out. Same game plan same formations. Josh could hit that mid deep out route if it wasn’t the only route run all game each week.

[DetoxTent]

Yeah and no.
1- Allen actually hasn't. Last season he was on a pace through 5 or so games to threaten Manning's passing yardage record. Then he fell off the cliff. Past the 1st game, he was revving again this season, then fell off the cliff. Both seasons, he didn't come out regressing, he came out looking like JFA. Don't know the answer, suspect McDermott one way or another, it's McDermott-ish.
2- Absolutely. They need x's and o's, not clapping, they're a vet team now, not a patched together team of castoffs needing redemption.
3- Absolutely.
4- No one remembers what they were upset with Daboll about anymore. Last season, Daboll demonstrated not Bills-Daboll tendencies when given the opportunity, that leads back to McDermott imo. Beane....well, he had some whiffs, I'm not happy about the o-line, but he supplied players McDermott is reluctant to use. We needed a man corner, so McD forces him into the stubborn zone, we got a playmaker RB McD will bench after a fumble or stop targeting (maybe Dorsey ? who knows, smells like McD), a receiver who can catch that they didn't want to throw to in Shakir while Davis runs about without a jugs machine discipline, a prominent weapon TE, and they use the same stale concepts stubbornly. I don't know that's not McDermott, I'm not sure Beane hasn't done his job while managing a cap.
5-Absolutely. I can't grasp how a career defensive coach cannot implement fundamental tackling in this many years. I still don't see dynamic defensive formations that shift or adjust with an mlb signal caller directing people, they just line up and make the best of a play they can, do the same stuff and hope for the best results. Who manages these timeouts and directs his coordinators with a game plan ?

It always eventually comes back to McDermott, imo.

The NFL is fixed. Josh Allen hasn't regressed. He's just doing what the bookies tell him to do.

[DetoxTent]

this firing exposed Ken Dorsey who’s playbook was inadequate at best or grossly misused at the least. He had no game plan game in game out. Same game plan same formations. Josh could hit that mid deep out route if it wasn’t the only route run all game each week.

Where did I say the firing wasn't deserved chief?

That said, once the play is being executed, Josh Allen has never been good. He panics too quickly. He hasn't calmed down in his drop back in 5 years. Mahomes looks calm, cool, collected in his drop backs. Jalen Hurts. Hebert.

[sukie]

You haven’t seen Mahomes this year obviously.

I meant by my post that the only one exposed is Dorsey. Did Josh throw a bad pick? Yup. Does he get blamed for Gabe’s drop INT yup . Does his completion % mention the drops? Nope of course it’s all Josh sucking… did Josh decide to not run for 7 games this year? Yup 100 % his decision. Does he have a Steinfeld photo on his wrist play thingy… of course.

if the OC doesn’t give the O an identity… it’s Josh that has to be hero…


sorry about the overt sarcasm

[DetoxTent]

sorry about the overt sarcasm

It's not particularly funny. Nor is it particularly accurate. Josh makes the reads. Josh leaves the pocket too early too often. Josh throwing to wrong targets too often (I have never seen fans here and everywhere point out any other QB miss wide open targets as much as Josh Allen does). A lot wrong with what you wrote there.

The Bills once had a Ted Marchibroda for a young Jim Kelly. Josh never had that NFL experienced OC. Sorry, Daboll can't hold a candle to Ted Marchibroda. Daboll didn't effectuate success in New England as much as he just went along for the ride there. He's proving that now. I keep referencing Chan Gailey. Is there a guy like that out there? An experience OC to calm Allen the hell down?

[sukie]

It's not particularly funny. Nor is it particularly accurate. Josh makes the reads. Josh leaves the pocket too early too often. Josh throwing to wrong targets too often (I have never seen fans here and everywhere point out any other QB miss wide open targets as much as Josh Allen does). A lot wrong with what you wrote there.

The Bills once had a Ted Marchibroda for a young Jim Kelly. Josh never had that NFL experienced OC. Sorry, Daboll can't hold a candle to Ted Marchibroda. Daboll didn't effectuate success in New England as much as he just went along for the ride there. He's proving that now. I keep referencing Chan Gailey. Is there a guy like that out there? An experience OC to calm Allen the hell down?

you are telling me that Josh doesn’t get pegged for throwing 2 picks when Gabe gift wrapped it? I wasn’t wrong.

when a QB is erratic. Especially early in a game , the IC is supposed to build confidence with high percentage plays… Dorsey failed.

I don’t think Josh leaves the pocket early.., in fact I claim that there are no plays designed for him to roll out

i don’t want Daboll back but he at least gave Josh and the WRs better chances to succeed.

I agree an experienced OCcid dedireanle but not mid season. Brady is only choice.

[DetoxTent]

you are telling me that Josh doesn’t get pegged for throwing 2 picks when Gabe gift wrapped it? I wasn’t wrong.

I (thankfully) missed the first quarter.


when a QB is erratic. Especially early in a game , the IC is supposed to build confidence with high percentage plays… Dorsey failed.

Umm no. The QB brings the confidence. Here all you are doing is admitting what I said, that the Bills are babying Josh Allen.


I don’t think Josh leaves the pocket early.., in fact I claim that there are no plays designed for him to roll out

LOL. I can't help you here. He almost darts for the sideline on every drop back.


Daboll...

You have done the most shameless 180 on Daboll I have ever seen.



I agree an experienced OCcid dedireanle but not mid season. Brady is only choice.

Even Brady understands that he is "interim"

[sukie]

It’s not babying. You just fumbled away the first snap with a recent slump at hand… the offense isn’t working as of late. The OC has to get a rhythm going .

[YardRat]

Josh regressed when Daboll left. Josh regressed when he stopped prioritizing work with Palmer

13 seconds was way more demoralizing to the D than Josh who left his guts on the field that night.

josh regressed when they made him a pocket passer. When was the last purposeful roll out?

josh regressed when they wanted him to not run and be Josh.

it’s like asking Marino to be Joe Ferguson .

Marino never won dick because he wasn't smart enough to ever learn he didn't have to do everything by himself with his arm. If he ever did play just a little bit like Ferguson at certain times he might have a Lombardi. Marino is the last QB I want Josh compared to.

[DetoxTent]

It’s not babying. You just fumbled away the first snap with a recent slump at hand… the offense isn’t working as of late. The OC has to get a rhythm going .


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ken Dorsey was not pleased with the way the game ended.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bills</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BillsMafia?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BillsMafia</a> <a href="https://t.co/k8TZmxpGAk">pic.twitter.com/k8TZmxpGAk</a></p>&mdash; AJ Feldman (@AJFeldmanTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/AJFeldmanTV/status/1574130760692408321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>0

[sukie]

Marino never won dick because he wasn't smart enough to ever learn he didn't have to do everything by himself with his arm. If he ever did play just a little bit like Ferguson at certain times he might have a Lombardi. Marino is the last QB I want Josh compared to.
Marino never had a running game… couldn’t be like Fergy

name famous Dolphin RBs

Kick Morris Czonka……………………………………..Ricky Williams…………………

[notacon]

Firing Dorsey was a desperation move that looks a LOT like scapegoating. Mainly to protect and make excuses for Josh Allen's MASSIVE regression personified with his pathological turning the ball over...and over...and over....and over again.

Maybe Dorsey has not been a stellar OC, but what made him look EXPONENTIALLY worse than he really was is the TURNOVER MACHINE that Allen (and others) have been.


Coaches and OC DO NOT CAUSE TURNOVERS. That is on the players committing them 100%.

He can't even accomplish the most basic jobs of a QB....handing the ball to a running back.

This IS what Josh Allen's anthem is...It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kbLwvqugk)



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b1kbLwvqugk?si=cn0N8wKfJVzZ0eJI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[sukie]

If defensive backs know the 2 possible routes being run by a WR in formation and at the snap 1 route is removed… and that DB sits back bating a QB to throw it… still blaming players?

[notacon]

If defensive backs know the 2 possible routes being run by a WR in formation and at the snap 1 route is removed… and that DB sits back bating a QB to throw it… still blaming players?
So, you are still making LAME excuses for Josh's total FAILURE to read defenses and STOP doing stupid stuff.

What is much more realistic is that defensive backs know that Josh gets impatient (like a little kid) and thinks he can fit the ball in anywhere and all they have to do is be patient and he'll make a boneheaded mistake.


It's NOT about the routes, it's about KNOWING JOSH'S TENDENCIES and lack of learning form his mistakes.

Maybe you missed the post (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/261680-The-Bills-Have-a-QB-Problem?p=5061276&viewfull=1#post5061276) where I highlighted this....

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“In my freshman year in college at Tennessee I threw an out route from the right hash to the far left side of the sideline and I would never make that throw in the NFL because you just don’t know how hard it is,” Manning said on ESPN2’s Manningcast. “You stop making these throws because, like I said, these defenders can cover a lot of ground. They can close gaps. I like boundary throws, short-side throws, especially on these deep out routes. Josh has got to learn from that one and has to come out and protect the ball better in the second half.”


Payton Manning hit the nail on the head.....Josh is still thinks (and sometimes plays) like the freshman in college.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe>
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[sukie]

Not an excuse. It was an admission from a DBack that picked Josh off. If a player knows the play that’s coming that player has an edge. Period. See Josh McDanials entire career.

if the receivers line up and Defenses know where it’s going once snapped what do you think is gonna happen. Do you think Minnesota is only secondary that knew this?

disregarding this is loser talk… naturally Josh threw 1 pick Monday (Gabe took credit for the first) and he had a lazy shotgun handoff… but your offense will require near perfect execution by every player to beat an opponent that knows what you are gonna do,

[Historian]

Marino never had a running game… couldn’t be like Fergy

name famous Dolphin RBs

Kick Morris Czonka……………………………………..Ricky Williams…………………

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[sukie]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar
I said famous. Lol that was a 1/2 hit wonder

well you coulda said Sammy Smith

[Historian]

Keith Byers

[YardRat]

Marino never had a running game… couldn’t be like Fergy

name famous Dolphin RBs

Kick Morris Czonka……………………………………..Ricky Williams…………………

Marino never let the running game get going, that's the point.

He didn't have a Thurman Thomas, but Sammie Smith was better than average.

[sukie]

Sammy fumbles? Never lived up to the hype given him and Louis Oliver coming out of college. Used both in ticket sales ads

If Marino had a Thurman… doubt Bills go to four straight.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Sammy fumbles? Never lived up to the hype given him and Louis Oliver coming out of college. Used both in ticket sales ads

If Marino had a Thurman… doubt Bills go to four straight.

I’ll take it one step further

if Marino has Thurman
I doubt the bills get even ONE Super Bowl appearance