Keep the HC and look forward to 2024

[Ford Pinto]

McDermott is the best Head Coach for this team. There is NO TIME FRAME to get to a Super Bowl. He' made the team competitive in the NFL after years of being the punching bags of the League. I support him.

In '24 we have all our draft picks, we won't be selecting in the 20-32 range, and we have new players added to the roster (17 never played for the Bills before '23) that are strong candidates to be back next year.

2024 is our year!

[YardRat]

He isn't going anywhere until the bye week next season, at the very earliest.

But he needs to grow, he's the second biggest factor why this team struggles...maybe the biggest. Or maybe he just takes turns with Josh.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Josh Allen made the team relevant once he was coached on his mechanics. Imagine Allen working with Shanahan in SF. He’d have a few championships with that coaching staff with his talent

[Mad Max]

Josh Allen made the team relevant once he was coached on his mechanics. Imagine Allen working with Shanahan in SF. He’d have a few championships with that coaching staff with his talent

With the talent on that team add Josh and they 100 percent win the Super Bowl last year and then again this year.

[Mace]

Been there, done that, the results are steadily declining because the roster is aging and becoming more brittle and a motivational coach gets tuned out if he isn't good at x's and o's with a veteran roster that he purposely built to be veteran and eventually immune to his coaching style, because he doesn't get it.

We don't just need one more FA, been there done that too, and status quo will inevitably waste one more year of Allen who is going to get hurt soon. This team already passed it's peak of potential and band aids aren't working.

[Mace]

Josh Allen made the team relevant once he was coached on his mechanics. Imagine Allen working with Shanahan in SF. He’d have a few championships with that coaching staff with his talent

He's not a Shanahan qb for a structured system....Sirianni, Miami McDaniel, Payton, or even Daboll who would scheme for him, instead of fitting him into their scheme would be a different story imho.

[Ford Pinto]

He isn't going anywhere until the bye week next season, at the very earliest.

But he needs to grow, he's the second biggest factor why this team struggles...maybe the biggest. Or maybe he just takes turns with Josh.

I agree. Terry won't be upset unless this scenario plays out again in 2024.

[Borosai]

7 years already. Why not waste another one?

[imbondz]

F that. Fire McDermott Now. I’ve supported him up until this season. Nothing will ever change. We’re too good a team and he’s ruining Josh Allen’s career.

[jamze132]

McDermott isn’t the biggest problem. It’s the cast over overpaid vets who aren’t contributing. Beane went for it with the Miller signing and it hasn’t worked out.

[sukie]

McDermott isn’t the biggest problem. It’s the cast over overpaid vets who aren’t contributing. Beane went for it with the Miller signing and it hasn’t worked out.
Who Else? It was not Von faltering that he tore his knee. The guy was fire prior and it was a big splash move panning out.

but you made a statement that was plural… who else?

Floyd wasn’t a monster deal
getting Joseph was a great move
Douglas trade… great move

who else was old and overpaid?

[ParanoidAndroid]

He keeps making the same kind of timid mistakes at the end of close games: bad timeouts, soft coverages and reduced pass rush, conservative decisions with a QB who thrives in crunch time...

He has a Ferrari and drives it like a Subaru Outback.

[Saratoga Slim]

McDermott does everything at a high level except finishing games. That seems fixable. He's a smart guy. Throw two passes in the last 20 seconds, go for it on 4th in the red zone in OT, and I'm not giving him stick this week. What he's missing is that killer instinct to finish games instead of playing to stay alive and hope that it works out. I'm OK retaining him if there's some indication that there's an effort to grow on that front. I don't know how many more chances I can give him to grow though. Really need to see some improvement over the remainder of this season and/or some indication from Beane/McDermott that they see what we all see and are going to attack it.

[Thurmal]

It's amazing how much equity McDermott built with some of the fanbase just because of an Andy Dalton 4th down conversion six years ago.

[Saratoga Slim]

It's amazing how much equity McDermott built with some of the fanbase just because of an Andy Dalton 4th down conversion six years ago.
That's an over-simplification.

He has the second most wins in the league since 2020. That's a consistent track record of success that no one should ignore.

For me it's only now that the evidence of coaching badly at the end of games is adding up to where it can't be ignored.

[notacon]

Firing McD (unless the Bills get blown out in every remaining game of the year) would be stupid, and counterproductive.

Mr. Pegula is too smart to listen to emotional fans that do not have the first clue how to run a NFL franchise.....and have nothing at stake (except their fragile pride) if they make bad decisions like this inevitable would be.

[Forward_Lateral]

McDermott isn’t the biggest problem. It’s the cast over overpaid vets who aren’t contributing. Beane went for it with the Miller signing and it hasn’t worked out.
Miller tore his ACL.

Had he not torn it, he'd probably have had 12-15 sacks last year, and be on the same pace this year.

Injuries happen, there's nothing that can be done about that.

[Mad Max]

McDermott does everything at a high level except finishing games. That seems fixable. He's a smart guy. Throw two passes in the last 20 seconds, go for it on 4th in the red zone in OT, and I'm not giving him stick this week. What he's missing is that killer instinct...
That statement is his single biggest issue.

I couldn’t believe he took a knee to go into OT and then I thought and stated that we should have gone for it on 4th down in OT. They couldn’t stop us and we certainly couldn’t stop their offense that last several drives. What was going to change? The only correct move was to go for it…play to win not hope not to lose.

The question is, can a killer instinct be developed or is it innate?

[Mace]

[/B]
That statement is his single biggest issue.

I couldn’t believe he took a knee to go into OT and then I thought and stated that we should have gone for it on 4th down in OT. They couldn’t stop us and we certainly couldn’t stop their offense that last several drives. What was going to change? The only correct move was to go for it…play to win not hope not to lose.

The question is, can a killer instinct be developed or is it innate?

Well, he's had 7 years to develop one, 6 with killer instinct Allen, and it hasn't happened. He hasn't grown. Why would anyone expect him to now.

It's been mentioned that he was being aggressive on the Eagles game winning TD with cover 0. QB draw up the middle is an Eagles staple, he forgot about it. Eagles OL today mentioned they couldn't believe it when they saw the safety move and knew it would be a TD. When he tries killer instinct it's inappropriate. When he should he doesn't. He's looking more and more like a deer in the headlights. He's in over his head.

Beane gave him talent and the talent alone got us this far. The game needs x and o coaching, and McDermott is resistant to it, hasn't evolved, is consistent in that.

When he just needed to motivate, he was fine, now that he needs to manage and direct, he's just incapable....can't sustain it, crumples. It's too much for him.

Great guy, but if he stays, the pattern is there to see.

Imho.

[Ford Pinto]

7 years already. Why not waste another one?
They have been 7 VERY GOOD years of great football!

[Novacane]

I agree. Terry won't be upset unless this scenario plays out again in 2024.

Which it will.

[Historian]

There are a lot of factors as to why this team has faltered this year, injuries, killer schedule, but one thing keeps getting overlooked.

The AFC is dog eat dog.

Even this division is pretty tough.

Philly's 10-1 is impressive, but the conference is garbage, and all the top tier quarterbacks are again, in the AFC.

A month ago, I would have said that anyone could win the AFC. Perhaps now we can rule out the Bills, Chargers, Raiders, and Pats.

This is a challenging conference for an aging team that is maxed out on the cap.

[Bill Cody]

Don't give up yet guys. Need this one Sunday.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

McDermott probably deserves another year. If I'm Terry, I need to see some growth. All HCs grow on the job, too. The best one, Belichick failed in Cleveland.

The best example I see is Bill Cowher. Cowher in Pittsburgh has many winning years but could not get over the hump. But he grew. As a defensive coach, he's able to find better and better offensive coaches in his later years, especially after Roethlisberger where he started to deviate from his conservative philosophy a lot more. I specifically remember when the Pats won their first superbowl in which they ran thru Pittsburgh, Cowher reflected afterwards that "Bill (Belichick) and his staff pushed all the right buttons" even though Pittsburgh faced Belichick in Cleveland for 5 years and beat them time and time again. Brady was not quite the Brady we came to know at that time.

So to me, this Bills team with proper coaching, should be a superbowl contender, not necessarily the hot one, every year. Get better talent on the coaches. Tighter control, like run thru all possible scenarios, are paramount to go over the last yard to the top. If McDermott cannot show improvement in that front, he should go.

[notacon]

There are a lot of factors as to why this team has faltered this year, injuries, killer schedule, but one thing keeps getting overlooked.

The AFC is dog eat dog.

Even this division is pretty tough.

Philly's 10-1 is impressive, but the conference is garbage, and all the top tier quarterbacks are again, in the AFC.

A month ago, I would have said that anyone could win the AFC. Perhaps now we can rule out the Bills, Chargers, Raiders, and Pats.

This is a challenging conference for an aging team that is maxed out on the cap.
It takes a certain amount of luck and the ball bouncing your way to get to 10-1. Philly has seemed to have almost all the luck and most of the breaks of the game on their side.

OT win vs Washington (on a 54 yard FG). KC dropped pass. A freakin 59 yard FG in the rain and wind, and then Bills missing on game winning TD in OT, getting a favorable call on the Brown catch and fumble to end game.

BTW..."ruling out" the Bills at this point is rather short sighted. Not saying they will pull out the 4 or (better yet) five wins to roll into the playoffs....but there is every reason to believe that they are capable of doing it. (and every reason to believe they aren't)

IF they do....watch out. This will be a tough team to beat in the playoffs.

[cas22]

McDermott is the best Head Coach for this team. There is NO TIME FRAME to get to a Super Bowl. He' made the team competitive in the NFL after years of being the punching bags of the League. I support him.

In '24 we have all our draft picks, we won't be selecting in the 20-32 range, and we have new players added to the roster (17 never played for the Bills before '23) that are strong candidates to be back next year.

2024 is our year!

dude we have to clear 35 mil before we even consider drafting any player, plus there are 4 players costing 10 mil plus that are free agents, so replacing players with no money is gonna be a majic show.

[Woodman]

It takes a certain amount of luck and the ball bouncing your way to get to 10-1. Philly has seemed to have almost all the luck and most of the breaks of the game on their side.





20010


Members in black and white stripes of the Eagles MVP club.

This is how you go 10-1. :snicker:

[Woodman]

Don't give up yet guys. Need this one Sunday.
If that's all we need consider it done ...... the opponent is :idunno: nobody :cool:

[Mad Max]

If that's all we need consider it done ...... the opponent is :idunno: nobody :cool:

The opponent has been themselves.
Let’s see if they can figure out how to defeat them during this time off.

[Mace]

If McDermott cannot show improvement in that front, he should go.

I believe McDermott will get another year anyway, well....those injuries Terry.....and I removed Dorsey, Terry....

Here's the thing though.....he's had 7 years to build his program, 6 years with JFA, molding the program through draft and FA to get the players he wanted. He has a vet team seasoned with playoff experience, and he's choked the same every year followed by his team crumpling. Defense still tries bear hug tackles, defense 101, and the team is visibly declining. He still does the same coaching things on field. He chokes. It's a 7 year pattern of crumple in the clutch.

So how much longer are you waiting for improvement ? When is it supposed to happen ? If you make it 8 years and 7 with Allen, well maybe again next year because.....

McDermott has not shown improvement, he has shown the end of what he's capable of, because it's not getting better. That's as far as you get, in 13 seconds, with a guy calling timeouts to review his defense, when he's a motivational coach. Like call them over for a pep talk or something. Nah. Did the same in Philly. Timeout to review his defense without effect. No evidence of growth. He chokes.

At least go down fighting, we're not getting any closer with McDermott. He's proven himself, imho.

[Borosai]

McDermott, in year 7, is exactly the same coach he was in year 1. He hasn't improved in any way whatsoever. I also made excuses for him early on, saying that he would learn and improve as a HC. He was new to the role, after all. Those excuses ended with :13, when it became clear who he was as a coach, and that the team would need to win in spite of him. I only see two ways the Bills will win a SB with McD.

1. The offense plays at a historically great level, blowing everyone out, and practically preventing McD from ****ing it up. A sprinkling of preferential calls from the refs, as well as timely injuries to the other teams along the way, could be helpful. In short, no close games, and some luck.

2. McDermott takes a look around and realizes that there's nobody left to blame. Feeling the heat, he shrugs his shoulders and says "**** it, I'm gonna start coaching to win instead of coaching not to lose." He trades in his McClap for a McDoubleThumbsUp, and finally addresses his flaws as a coach.

I want the Bills to win a Super Bowl. I want these players to celebrate a championship together. Most of all, I want the people of Buffalo (which I am not) to throw the greatest victory parade ever... and finally exhale. In my opinion, McDermott is in the way.

[Ford Pinto]

Firing McD (unless the Bills get blown out in every remaining game of the year) would be stupid, and counterproductive.

Mr. Pegula is too smart to listen to emotional fans that do not have the first clue how to run a NFL franchise.....and have nothing at stake (except their fragile pride) if they make bad decisions like this inevitable would be.

I'm an emotional fan - -for many, many years - -and I want to keep our HC - - we'll win!

[Mr. Pink]

Marty McDermott should have been fired two years ago, the longer we keep him, the more time we waste.

[Ford Pinto]

Marty McDermott should have been fired two years ago, the longer we keep him, the more time we waste.
So tell me - - who should be the next HC?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I believe McDermott will get another year anyway, well....those injuries Terry.....and I removed Dorsey, Terry....

Here's the thing though.....he's had 7 years to build his program, 6 years with JFA, molding the program through draft and FA to get the players he wanted. He has a vet team seasoned with playoff experience, and he's choked the same every year followed by his team crumpling. Defense still tries bear hug tackles, defense 101, and the team is visibly declining. He still does the same coaching things on field. He chokes. It's a 7 year pattern of crumple in the clutch.

So how much longer are you waiting for improvement ? When is it supposed to happen ? If you make it 8 years and 7 with Allen, well maybe again next year because.....

McDermott has not shown improvement, he has shown the end of what he's capable of, because it's not getting better. That's as far as you get, in 13 seconds, with a guy calling timeouts to review his defense, when he's a motivational coach. Like call them over for a pep talk or something. Nah. Did the same in Philly. Timeout to review his defense without effect. No evidence of growth. He chokes.

At least go down fighting, we're not getting any closer with McDermott. He's proven himself, imho.
I don't believe McDermott is one of the genius on one side of the ball like Belichick, McVay, Peyton, Reid, etc. His ceiling on that front is visible. But that does not mean he can't be a great HC. The ability to build a culture like he has right now in Buffalo is one important factor. How many coaches the Bills had in the past have that trait, including Marv Levy? To me the one thing I want to see in a head coach is the ability to find quality coaches, especially young and upcoming ones. Under him, he got Rick Dennison which is below average but I gave McDermott a pass because it is not always easy to find the right one when you first step into the job where your exposure in finding talent in the league and college level is limited. Daboll is a success. Dorsey is a failure - there might be a lesson learned there in that you probably can't let a 25 year old QB select an important position like OC on an NFL team. Joe Brady is good find. O-Line coach? WR coach? For defense, Leslie Frazier is good, but not great. They executed old concept to a very high level but failed to add something new to push them into a level that allow them to be Superbowl caliber (i.e., making key plays at key moments against top level opposition: Mahomes, Burrows). I don't know too much of lower level D coaches.

[notacon]

The fall of New England from almost the moment Tom Brady left calls into question exactly how much a head coach determines a team's chances of success.

Patrick Mahomes is why the Chiefs have won two Super Bowls...much more than Andy Reid. Tom Brady was more the cause for New England's dominance than Bill Belichik.

Not to say that a head coach does not matter. Of course they do....but in the NFL it STILL comes down to player performance, in particular QB play. Specifically the lack of mistakes from the QB.

KC lost last night, mainly (of course bad referring was a factor but that is a given in today's' NFL and the refs made several really bad calls that favored KC) because Mahomes made the relatively RARE HUGE mistake at the wrong time and the wrong place.

Chief's behind only 5 points, the 4th quarter INT, with only 5 min. left in the game, (after a terrible DPI call that helped KC...what else is new?) at GB's 33 was devastating. Love did not make any boneheaded mistakes (GB's last offensive play when he went down for a "sack" adding 10 yards to the FG that put them ahead by 8 did not effect the game).

Love outplayed Mahomes by avoiding the big mistake.

The last three wins by Green Bay, Love has had 8 TD's and ZERO INT's.

Josh Allen in the last three games (two of them losses)....6 TD's and FOUR INT's.

In the six losses Allen has 9 TD's and 9 INTS. At least one INT in every loss.

In the six wins Allen has 15 TD's and only 4 INT's. He has thrown at least one INT in TEN of the twelve games. Only two games with zero INT's were the blowout wins vs Raiders and Miami.

As Brock Purdy has shown, you do NOT have to be superman, making ridiculous throws showing superior arm strength.

San Fran had a mid-season hick-up with an unusual 3 game losing streak. I those three losses, Purdy threw for only 3 TD's and FIVE INT's. Two against Cincy and Minny and one vs Cleveland.

In their nine wins he threw TWENTY TD's only ONE SINGLE INT. EIGHT WINS with ZERO INT's.

Back to Andy Reid....the Chiefs were a very good team with a very good QB, Alex Smith (with Kelce) from his first year with KC. Their playoff success?? Not much.

2013 - one and out - lost in WC round
2014 - missed playoffs
2015 - won WC, lost Div to NE and Brady
2016 - one and out - lost in Div to Pittsburgh (did not play in WC, they were #2 seed)
2017 - one and out - lost to Tenn in WC


For the math challenged, that is a 1-4 record.

2018 Patrick Mahomes takes over as starting QB....

2018 - lost in AFCC to NE and Brady (they had fist round bye via #1 seed)
2019 - won Super Bowl beating HOU in Div, and Tenn in AFCC. Did not have to play against NE and Brady. (they had fist round bye via #2 seed)
2020 - lost SB to Tampa Bay and TOM BRADY. (they had fist round bye via #1 seed) - Bills get #2 seed but because of playoff change do NOT get first round bye.
2021 - lost to Cincy in AFCC - they did NOT get first round bye
2022 - won SB - (they had fist round bye via #1 seed)

Sensing a pattern here???? No Mahomes, no success. Mahomes - great success.

Same with Belichick and Brady.

Same with Paul Brown and Otto Graham (yes, the great Paul Brown never won a championship without Otto Graham at QB).

Same with Vince Lombardi and Bart Starr (yes, the great Vince Lombardi never won a championship without Bart Starr at QB).

The bottom line, when Josh Allen plays closer to mistake free football, the Bills will see success, which makes a HC look better. When Josh (or any QB for that matter) makes too many questionable decisions and too many boneheaded mistakes, they lose games and make the HC look bad.

[YardRat]

I don't believe McDermott is one of the genius on one side of the ball like Belichick, McVay, Peyton, Reid, etc. His ceiling on that front is visible. But that does not mean he can't be a great HC. The ability to build a culture like he has right now in Buffalo is one important factor. How many coaches the Bills had in the past have that trait, including Marv Levy? To me the one thing I want to see in a head coach is the ability to find quality coaches, especially young and upcoming ones. Under him, he got Rick Dennison which is below average but I gave McDermott a pass because it is not always easy to find the right one when you first step into the job where your exposure in finding talent in the league and college level is limited. Daboll is a success. Dorsey is a failure - there might be a lesson learned there in that you probably can't let a 25 year old QB select an important position like OC on an NFL team. Joe Brady is good find. O-Line coach? WR coach? For defense, Leslie Frazier is good, but not great. They executed old concept to a very high level but failed to add something new to push them into a level that allow them to be Superbowl caliber (i.e., making key plays at key moments against top level opposition: Mahomes, Burrows). I don't know too much of lower level D coaches.

Unfortunately some of the characteristics of that culture is over-confidence, lack of self-awareness, stubborness, lack of growth, inability to finish, propensity to choke in big moments, lack of preparedness, and on and on...

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Unfortunately some of the characteristics of that culture is over-confidence, lack of self-awareness, stubborness, lack of growth, inability to finish, propensity to choke in big moments, lack of preparedness, and on and on...

Culture is bonding, making everyone works together to achieve a common goal. You see most of the successful companies have that. The best one in NFL is Belichick's run with Brady. That team worked extra hard in practice for the common goal of winning on Sundays. The self-awareness etc. you mentioned normally should come from sharp-minded coaches who have a list of things they observe and need to be fully vested Monday thru Saturday. Whether they miss-observed or could not vest fully of everything they observed to their satisfaction could mean problem of the quality of the coaches.

[Mace]

I don't believe McDermott is one of the genius on one side of the ball like Belichick, McVay, Peyton, Reid, etc. His ceiling on that front is visible. But that does not mean he can't be a great HC. The ability to build a culture like he has right now in Buffalo is one important factor. How many coaches the Bills had in the past have that trait, including Marv Levy? To me the one thing I want to see in a head coach is the ability to find quality coaches, especially young and upcoming ones. Under him, he got Rick Dennison which is below average but I gave McDermott a pass because it is not always easy to find the right one when you first step into the job where your exposure in finding talent in the league and college level is limited. Daboll is a success. Dorsey is a failure - there might be a lesson learned there in that you probably can't let a 25 year old QB select an important position like OC on an NFL team. Joe Brady is good find. O-Line coach? WR coach? For defense, Leslie Frazier is good, but not great. They executed old concept to a very high level but failed to add something new to push them into a level that allow them to be Superbowl caliber (i.e., making key plays at key moments against top level opposition: Mahomes, Burrows). I don't know too much of lower level D coaches.

He's been here 7 years, this is his program, built from start to finish, and it's already in decline despite Allen. KC has maintained, so has San Fran with Brock Purdy, the Bengals, Eagles, now even Houston, Denver and Miami have risen in less time. Hapless Cleveland and Pittsburgh without a starter are ahead of us.

We're 7 years into a program, 6 with Josh Allen.

Marv Levy was no great shakes as a coach, he got to 4 super bowls knowing when to get out of the way, compare the timeframe, it's just not good. 7 years of a program and in decline means it failed, imho.

[Mr. Pink]

So tell me - - who should be the next HC?

I gave a name in another thread...

Press Taylor.

Jags OC.

Has developed Trevor Lawrence into a good looking NFL QB. The Jags offense looks good. It has creativity. And it doesn't have the playmakers we have nor is Lawrence as good as Allen.

We need a young offensive minded HC that is going to tailor the team around Josh Allen and his strengths. A guy who is going to try and go for it with 20 seconds left instead of playing for OT. A guy who might go with the analytics and not punt from the opposition 45 yard line.

Another name that was overlooked for years because he was the Chiefs OC. Eric Bienemy. Just look at how good Sam Howell has looked this year. He's a nobody. Bienemy has gotten that out of him.

Either guy I'd be happy with as the next HC.

[jamze132]

I gave a name in another thread...

Press Taylor.

Jags OC.

Has developed Trevor Lawrence into a good looking NFL QB. The Jags offense looks good. It has creativity. And it doesn't have the playmakers we have nor is Lawrence as good as Allen.

We need a young offensive minded HC that is going to tailor the team around Josh Allen and his strengths. A guy who is going to try and go for it with 20 seconds left instead of playing for OT. A guy who might go with the analytics and not punt from the opposition 45 yard line.

Another name that was overlooked for years because he was the Chiefs OC. Eric Bienemy. Just look at how good Sam Howell has looked this year. He's a nobody. Bienemy has gotten that out of him.

Either guy I'd be happy with as the next HC.

So you’re ready to go with a first-time HC and start all over. lol pass

And there has to be a reason Bienimy isn’t a HC and it’s not his skin color. Just because you can draw up nice plays that Mahomes gets to run doesn’t make one a great leader.

[Mace]

I gave a name in another thread...

Press Taylor.

Jags OC.

Has developed Trevor Lawrence into a good looking NFL QB. The Jags offense looks good. It has creativity. And it doesn't have the playmakers we have nor is Lawrence as good as Allen.

We need a young offensive minded HC that is going to tailor the team around Josh Allen and his strengths. A guy who is going to try and go for it with 20 seconds left instead of playing for OT. A guy who might go with the analytics and not punt from the opposition 45 yard line.

Another name that was overlooked for years because he was the Chiefs OC. Eric Bienemy. Just look at how good Sam Howell has looked this year. He's a nobody. Bienemy has gotten that out of him.

Either guy I'd be happy with as the next HC.

Theoretically they both need to pair with a good DC though on their speed dial.

[Novacane]

So tell me - - who should be the next HC?

Joe Brady. Then revamp the defense.

[Ford Pinto]

There are a lot of factors as to why this team has faltered this year, injuries, killer schedule, but one thing keeps getting overlooked.

The AFC is dog eat dog.

Even this division is pretty tough.

Philly's 10-1 is impressive, but the conference is garbage, and all the top tier quarterbacks are again, in the AFC.

A month ago, I would have said that anyone could win the AFC. Perhaps now we can rule out the Bills, Chargers, Raiders, and Pats.

This is a challenging conference for an aging team that is maxed out on the cap.

The Bills are an aging team. They rank near the top of NFL teams listed by age and are in group that includes the Jets, Saints, Panthers and Patriots. And this was before they signed some veterans in November.

[Mr. Pink]

Theoretically they both need to pair with a good DC though on their speed dial.

Completely agree.

We need an offensive minded head coach who can put together a staff and give the defensive side of the ball full reign to his DC.

[Mr. Pink]

So you’re ready to go with a first-time HC and start all over. lol pass

And there has to be a reason Bienimy isn’t a HC and it’s not his skin color. Just because you can draw up nice plays that Mahomes gets to run doesn’t make one a great leader.

We need to start all over.

We're an old, slow, aging roster with a generational talent at QB.

With the cap situation, it's legitimately going to take two years to retool the roster, when we can get rid of contracts like Miller and Knox, and do something about Diggs huge numbers.

We went with a rookie HC in McDermott and he got us so far, we need new fresh blood that is offense geared.

And sure, just dismiss Bienemy, but look at what the Chiefs offense looks like without him....and look at what he has done with Sam Howell. Howell is top 5 in the NFL in yards passing. And he's a nobody.

[Chet]

Easy to please fanbase, tbh. You all are so battered and bruised from the drought that you’ve been ground down into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.

You still think the drought is the norm. The baseline. Where if it were 95% of all other teams in all the major sports combined it would be a historic embarrassment. Because of this flawed thinking, you’ve conditioned yourselves to accept any scraps or crumbs of success that fall off the table.

If you support retaining Marty McDermott you are advertising your contentment with mediocrity. You are rooting not to lose instead of rooting for winning.

[Mad Max]

We need to start all over.

We're an old, slow, aging roster with a generational talent at QB.

With the cap situation, it's legitimately going to take two years to retool the roster, when we can get rid of contracts like Miller and Knox, and do something about Diggs huge numbers.

We went with a rookie HC in McDermott and he got us so far, we need new fresh blood that is offense geared.

And sure, just dismiss Bienemy, but look at what the Chiefs offense looks like without him....and look at what he has done with Sam Howell. Howell is top 5 in the NFL in yards passing. And he's a nobody.

I think you’re right on Bienemy. He’s a very good OC…time will tell if that translates to HC.

I think you’re wrong on Howell. He’s not a bum, you can’t just scheme the success that he’s had.

[notacon]

Easy to please fanbase, tbh. You all are so battered and bruised from the drought that you’ve been ground down into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.

You still think the drought is the norm. The baseline. Where if it were 95% of all other teams in all the major sports combined it would be a historic embarrassment. Because of this flawed thinking, you’ve conditioned yourselves to accept any scraps or crumbs of success that fall off the table.

If you support retaining Marty McDermott you are advertising your contentment with mediocrity. You are rooting not to lose instead of rooting for winning.


https://media1.tenor.com/m/kJqw_bu_exkAAAAC/eeyore-winnie-the-pooh.gif

[Mad Max]

The Bills are an aging team. They rank near the top of NFL teams listed by age and are in group that includes the Jets, Saints, Panthers and Patriots. And this was before they signed some veterans in November.

They are, but a couple of points:

-they’re going to get younger in 2024 (losing Hyde and Sheffield alone will decrease our age by a hundred years? )

-six different teams have won the Super Bowl (including the Chiefs) with older rosters than the current Bills roster, so that’s not necessarily a limiting factor with proper roster construction/play/coaching.

[Mr. Pink]

I think you’re right on Bienemy. He’s a very good OC…time will tell if that translates to HC.

I think you’re wrong on Howell. He’s not a bum, you can’t just scheme the success that he’s had.

I could be very wrong on Howell. He just wasn't a guy that was highly touted nor a guy anyone knew about prior to this season.

IMO, Bienemy has gotten that out of him. And if Bienemy can do that with Mahomes who was highly touted but had some question marks coming into the draft and then with a relative nobody...just imagine what he can do with Allen.

[acehole]

I think he can save himself if he hires a defensive coordinator and hands the reigns over to him.

Both creating a scapegoat and saving his job if it works out.

if it doesn't he can say how great he was as Defensive coordinator.

Seriously ...we didn't lose a game less then what 6 points?

We lost a few key guys and the team still played for him?

His decisions can sometimes drive me crazy but that is like saying "we have a Josh Allen problem" when you have one of statically the best qb's in the league.

I would say get a new DC and lets do a small reload next year.

I personally do not want to make it that far this year in the playoffs with a team that does not know who they are...with this few healthy weapons/playmakers.

PS the caveat to this is a decisive win at KC.

I don't see us getting by SF.

[Mace]

We need to start all over.

We're an old, slow, aging roster with a generational talent at QB.

With the cap situation, it's legitimately going to take two years to retool the roster, when we can get rid of contracts like Miller and Knox, and do something about Diggs huge numbers.

We went with a rookie HC in McDermott and he got us so far, we need new fresh blood that is offense geared.

And sure, just dismiss Bienemy, but look at what the Chiefs offense looks like without him....and look at what he has done with Sam Howell. Howell is top 5 in the NFL in yards passing. And he's a nobody.

I wouldn't go all in on Bienemy, it's peculiar no one handed him a program after interviews. Andy Reid calls the plays, and despite losing Hunt, Hill, Bienemy and such, basically with only Mahomes and Kelce, they're still looking maintained in a winning formula. An abrasive style doesn't necessarily fit well with vets, and we're loaded with them because we're always "just a vet away" from success. We're not a fresh team, subject to motivation any more. Dunno how tough love goes over with Allen. You might argue he needs it, but I don't know he responds to it at this point, and he's the franchise.

Hate to say it, but wonder about Kliff Kingsbury. I dunno. The team is back in the world of "I dunno" anyway.

[Ford Pinto]

I think he can save himself if he hires a defensive coordinator and hands the reigns over to him.

Both creating a scapegoat and saving his job if it works out.

if it doesn't he can say how great he was as Defensive coordinator.

Seriously ...we didn't lose a game less then what 6 points?

We lost a few key guys and the team still played for him?

His decisions can sometimes drive me crazy but that is like saying "we have a Josh Allen problem" when you have one of statically the best qb's in the league.

I would say get a new DC and lets do a small reload next year.

I personally do not want to make it that far this year in the playoffs with a team that does not know who they are...with this few healthy weapons/playmakers.

PS the caveat to this is a decisive win at KC.

I don't see us getting by SF.

Great post! It might be better for 2024 if we don't get to the play-offs.

[Mr. Pink]

I wouldn't go all in on Bienemy, it's peculiar no one handed him a program after interviews. Andy Reid calls the plays, and despite losing Hunt, Hill, Bienemy and such, basically with only Mahomes and Kelce, they're still looking maintained in a winning formula. An abrasive style doesn't necessarily fit well with vets, and we're loaded with them because we're always "just a vet away" from success. We're not a fresh team, subject to motivation any more. Dunno how tough love goes over with Allen. You might argue he needs it, but I don't know he responds to it at this point, and he's the franchise.

Hate to say it, but wonder about Kliff Kingsbury. I dunno. The team is back in the world of "I dunno" anyway.

I think the consensus on Bienemy in KC was that he didn't do anything to help that team offensively, it was Andy Reid's show. Bienemy going elsewhere was a wise career move to get past that type of thinking. Sam Howell and the Commanders offense is all due to Bienemy and by doing what he's doing in Washington it helps him shed that "it was all Reid and not Bienemy" thought process.

It may take him another season to fully shed that, but I'd be very surprised if Bienemy isn't a HC somewhere by 2025.

[notacon]

I think he can save himself if he hires a defensive coordinator and hands the reigns over to him.

Both creating a scapegoat and saving his job if it works out.

if it doesn't he can say how great he was as Defensive coordinator.

Seriously ...we didn't lose a game less then what 6 points?

We lost a few key guys and the team still played for him?

His decisions can sometimes drive me crazy but that is like saying "we have a Josh Allen problem" when you have one of statically the best qb's in the league.

I would say get a new DC and lets do a small reload next year.

I personally do not want to make it that far this year in the playoffs with a team that does not know who they are...with this few healthy weapons/playmakers.

PS the caveat to this is a decisive win at KC.

I don't see us getting by SF.

Pretty good post until you said "His decisions can sometimes drive me crazy but that is like saying "we have a Josh Allen problem" when you have one of statically [sic] (it's statistically, not "statically"..."statically (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/statically#:~:text=statically%20adverb%20(NOT%20MOVING)&text=in%20a%20way%20that%20is,for%20at%20least%2015%20seconds.)" means something completely different) the best qb's in the league."


It shows that you have decided to bury your head to the elephant in the room that despite Josh Allen being "statically [sic] the best qb's in the league." his penchant for turnovers and boneheaded decisions makes it much, MUCH more difficult to win games.

McD's biggest error this year was to take on DC and HC duties. It made him worse at both positions.

The fact is that there are many reasons for the Bills disappointment so far this season. To ignore Allen's contribution to those disappointments is silly.

[acehole]

He is the 2nd lowest in turnover to td ratio this year of any QB?

Your ignorance not withstanding.

"We have a Josh Allen problem" Nobody said ever and when I say nobody I mean you. There isn't one expert that agrees with you.

You don't understand football. It is the other way around the team and the couching let J Allen down on many occasions.

People that don't understand the game always point at the qb...because its the easiest thing to see.
What about the refs? What about a James cook drop for a walk in? What about a wrong route that shows up on JA stat-line?

PS I don't need your approval.

[Mace]

I think the consensus on Bienemy in KC was that he didn't do anything to help that team offensively, it was Andy Reid's show. Bienemy going elsewhere was a wise career move to get past that type of thinking. Sam Howell and the Commanders offense is all due to Bienemy and by doing what he's doing in Washington it helps him shed that "it was all Reid and not Bienemy" thought process.

It may take him another season to fully shed that, but I'd be very surprised if Bienemy isn't a HC somewhere by 2025.

I don't exactly know what the consensus was on Bienemy, besides an interview flaw. I mean you see teams roll the dice on popular coaching trees, no matter the involvement of the assistant in relation to the involvement of the HC in their specialty. Bienemy, working with Reid, was the guy who installed and ran practices, maintained and influenced beyond calling the actual game day plays. So there's no reason to think his offense wouldn't be an Andy Reid offense pretty much shaped by his experience in KC.

I'm not anti-Bienemy in general, can't see why he doesn't deserve a program more than some of these other guys who did call plays for their units, unless he has unpopular choices for coordinators, and what he wants in a GM.

I mentioned Kingsbury, he's just not a Buffalo kind of guy, but I had to throw it out there.

I guess I see Bienemy as a guy to shape a program, not one to step in and salvage one.

[jamze132]

The last thing I want is to fire McDermott and start over. We need continuity and stability.

[Chet]

Never reinforce failure.

He has failed. Move on.

[Mr. Pink]

I mentioned Kingsbury, he's just not a Buffalo kind of guy, but I had to throw it out there.

I guess I see Bienemy as a guy to shape a program, not one to step in and salvage one.

I like Kingsbury but I don't think he would work here. His Air Raid style offense would be pretty to watch with Allen running the show, but we'll get that one bad weather game and the offense will completely tank because it's not meant for those type of conditions...and you'll have people lining up with pitchforks saying see it doesn't work, Kingsbury doesn't know how to coach, etc etc etc

I do kind of agree with your sentiment on Bienemy. I feel like he'd be a guy to jump into a new build restart and be the guy to build that program into something special. Carolina would be a good fit for him, IMO. I think the guy deserves a shot somewhere at this point while he's really able to get out from under Reid's shadow. And as you said there are so many guys who get jobs who have no business getting jobs. Makes me also wonder if there's something more there than just being under Reid's shadow, or poor interview skills. Maybe he's just an a-hole to deal with? Who knows

[Mr. Pink]

The last thing I want is to fire McDermott and start over. We need continuity and stability.

We need to continuously collapse in the playoffs? If we even make it there this year?

That should never be the bar. That is McDermott's bar.

Then I've seen people say why should we let another team prosper from McDermott making mistakes here...dude is the Marty Schottenheimer of our time, Marty went to several different teams and never learned the lessons from being too conservative in Cleveland.

[Jimkelly12203]

Joe Brady. Then revamp the defense.
There was a quote from Tyler Dunne's article from a source. To paraphrase, just because you're a good play caller doesn't mean you're a good leader of men.

We need a leader of men.

Personally, i think we should just let Josh call all of the plays ala Peyton Manning.

Get good organizers and leaders to run the week and then just let Josh go on Sunday's (or Thursdays, or Mondays... or, evidently, Fridays now).

[YardRat]

If they come out flat against KC, he's lost the locker room.

[Forward_Lateral]

If they come out flat against KC, he's lost the locker room.

Yep. Sunday will tell me all I need to know about the fate of this team, and the fate of McDermott.

[kingJofNYC]

Main points for me from the Dunne piece is the offense.

Losing Daboll destroyed that identity/swag, because Daboll gave 0 ****s about what anyone thought. A lot of folks ****ing bagged on Daboll when he was here when the O went cold, but that dude held that **** down.

Going to take a big run for McDermott to keep hold of this. Sharks were circling even before this piece came out.

Edit: Firing Dorsey now seems less x's and o's, especially when you saw comments about "energy" after the firing, and more about trying to get some leadership back on that side of the ball.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

So is McDermott's buddy Mike Tomlin any better? There are tons of talk among sports writers and fans that Tomlin has been here for too long this morning. But they all know the Rooney's are NOT going to fire him. And Tomlin will find a job next day if he is let go. I feel McDermott is held with the same regard by Pegula.

[Forward_Lateral]

So is McDermott's buddy Mike Tomlin any better? There are tons of talk among sports writers and fans that Tomlin has been here for too long this morning. But they all know the Rooney's are NOT going to fire him. And Tomlin will find a job next day if he is let go. I feel McDermott is held with the same regard by Pegula.

Tomlin has won a championship, and 2 AFC championships. The Steelers haven't had a losing season in the 17 years he's been head coach. He's earned much more leeway than McD, and comparing the two is asinine

[sahlensguy]

Tomlin has won a championship, and 2 AFC championships. The Steelers haven't had a losing season in the 17 years he's been head coach. He's earned much more leeway than McD, and comparing the two is asinine

I would switch them straight up in a heartbeat. Tomlin with Josh would be great.

[cookie G]

So you’re ready to go with a first-time HC and start all over. lol pass

And there has to be a reason Bienimy isn’t a HC and it’s not his skin color. Just because you can draw up nice plays that Mahomes gets to run doesn’t make one a great leader.

Press Taylor is a part time play caller in his first year of calling part time plays. Peterson throws him a bone sometimes to get him some experience.

Listening to some of the names thrown out here....ugh...

Eric Bienemy-He wanted his shot at calling plays without Andy Reid. Ok, he got it. Washington is 22nd in the league in scoring. Their passing yards ranking is a little higher (12th) but that's because ...well...Washington passes more than anyone in the league.

Kliff Klingsbury? Really? He's the king of the 2nd half dive.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kliff Kingsbury&#39;s end to the season as a head coach...<br><br>Texas Tech:<br>• &#39;13: lost 5 of 6<br>• &#39;14: lost 4 of 6<br>• &#39;15: lost 4 of 6<br>• &#39;16: lost 6 of 8<br>• &#39;17: lost 6 of 8<br>• &#39;18: lost 5 of 5<br><br>Cardinals:<br>• &#39;19: lost 7 of 9<br>• &#39;20: lost 5 of 7<br>• ‘21: lost 5 of 6 <a href="https://t.co/t7e0C1rWC7">pic.twitter.com/t7e0C1rWC7</a></p>&mdash; Action Network (@ActionNetworkHQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/ActionNetworkHQ/status/1483297631052840964?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

People are complaining about McD blowing it in the playoffs? And they suggest Kliff Kingsbury? Good lord.

I understand that the McD era might have run its course. But the idea that you can just plug anyone into the position is downright ludicrous. As much as "we need to start all over" is just as ludicrous.

IF McD goes, this is going to be the biggest decision Pegula will have to make. Based on Beane's relationship with McD, you're going to have to wonder about his ability/willingness to make a change. Not sure how much his heart will be in it.

Keep in mind that if you take a coach without experience, the "you have to give him 3 years to give him a chance" logic will arise. The one you pick doesn't work out...Josh is now past year 9 and 30 years old. People like to bring up the Gruden situation in Tampa, post Dungy. Well, that was John Gruden.

But OK, people like to throw out the dark horse/unexperienced candidates, fine..here's mine

Bobby Slowik - OC Houston Texans

Obscure coach under Shanahan, not much of a resume prior to last year.

Became passing game coordinator under Shanahan and was given Mr. Irrelevant as his QB. It kinda worked out, I'd think.

He moves to Houston with Demeco Ryans to be OC. He's given a talented CJ Stroud, but still a rookie.

Houston goes from:

30th in scoring to 10th;
25th in passing yards to 2nd;
18th in passing TDs to 8th;
31st in ints to the fewest ints in the league.

Nico Collins, a 3rd round pick in 2021, and the 14th WR taken has doubled his passing yards from the prior 2 seasons and is nearing 1000 yards.
Little Tank Dell, a 3rd round rookie pick and the 9th WR taken, had over 700 yards and was on his way to a 1000 season before his injury.

The Texans, who most saw as a bottom dweller, have a 7-5 record and are in the playoff hunt.

2 teams, 2 years of improvement. And outside of Stroud, the talent level what some would consider no more than average.

Good pedigree, good grooming under Shanahan.

[Mr. Pink]

Bobby Slowik is another good choice.

Press Taylor is the Jags primary playcaller though, allegedly. Press Taylor had playcalling duties taken away back in September for a bit, allegedly. Doug Pederson says he never took playcalling away from Taylor, allegedly.

So who knows what is going on there...I just like what the guy has done with Lawrence and the Jags offense. Lawrence didn't look like he belonged in the league as a rookie and has turned into a solid QB since Taylor has been involved.

[notacon]

He is the 2nd lowest in turnover to td ratio this year of any QB?

Your ignorance not withstanding.

"We have a Josh Allen problem" Nobody said ever and when I say nobody I mean you. There isn't one expert that agrees with you.

You don't understand football. It is the other way around the team and the couching let J Allen down on many occasions.

People that don't understand the game always point at the qb...because its the easiest thing to see.
What about the refs? What about a James cook drop for a walk in? What about a wrong route that shows up on JA stat-line?

PS I don't need your approval.

Talk about "ignorance". :rofl: It's irrelevant that Josh "the 2nd lowest in turnover to td ratio this year of any QB"....when the INTS that he DOES throw have had a devastating effect on wins and loses. SO much so that opposing defenses are game planning for exactly that and know how to goad Josh into making stupid throws.

In fact, that was the game plan for the two most damaging losses vs NE and Denver. NE in particular (at that time) would get behind early in games and were not built to come back. They purposely PLANNED on picking Josh off early and did exactly that on his first freakin' throw.....gift wrapping the Pats a 10 point lead and giving their team a shot in the arm that they rode to the biggest upset of the season for the Bills.


Same thing against Denver. Although the first drive was a fumble (not by Josh, thankfully) but then on the very next drive, he throws a terrible INT at the Denver 12 yard line. Then after finally getting a TD after two inept possessions ending in punts, and cutting the lead to one (9-8) then holding Denver to a FG (Denver ahead 12-8)....on the next drive the very first play he throws another INT.

There have been only two games this season that Josh has not thrown a INT....Both of those games were their biggest blow out wins.

Yeah....being "the 2nd lowest in turnover to td ratio this year of any QB" and $5 gets you a cup of Starbucks coffee, and throwing INTS (besides talking about his inopportune fumbles) in some of the worst times gets a team a 6-6 hole.

[notacon]

Firing McD (unless the Bills get blown out in every remaining game of the year) would be stupid, and counterproductive.

Mr. Pegula is too smart to listen to emotional fans that do not have the first clue how to run a NFL franchise.....and have nothing at stake (except their fragile pride) if they make bad decisions like this inevitable would be.

After reading the devastating Tyler Dunne 20,000+ three part beat down of McD (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264515-He-McDermott-Problem?p=5065782&viewfull=1#post5065782), (hat tip to Jimkelly12203 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264515-He-McDermott-Problem?p=5065713&viewfull=1#post5065713), "I think it is clearly time to move on. I've been persuaded."

[Jimkelly12203]

We definitely need an offensive minded head coach. But if we're going to spin the wheels and stick with the defensive mindset in 2023, then yes... Give me Tomlin. Not what i would do though.

[Mr. Pink]

We definitely need an offensive minded head coach. But if we're going to spin the wheels and stick with the defensive mindset in 2023, then yes... Give me Tomlin. Not what i would do though.

Tomlin is going to coach Pittsburgh for as long as he wants the job. They're never going to fire him.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

LMAO

comparing McDermott to Tomlin

let’s put it this way

do you think (under almost any circumstances) if the bills and Steelers switched quarterbacks, McDermott would even be employed?
if Kenny pickett were qb’ing this team for even 2 years, McDermott would be fired. No question. The fact Tomlin even has a winning record with that absolute dumpster fire of an offense and qb is nothing short of miraculous. Not to mention the fact he was able to corral that Antonio Brown lunatic for years and got compensation for him when he finally couldn’t


McDermott isn’t worthy to wipe Tomlin’s ass

GTFO here with that bull****

[Mr. Pink]

As an NFL fan in general, I'm envious of the Steelers and what they've done at HC for the past 50+ years now.

They find guys who are top notch. Guys who win titles. Guys who have the keys to the city basically. And these guys very rarely have any question marks or detractors.

Noll to Cowher to Tomlin...it's crazy.

[Jimkelly12203]

LMAO

comparing McDermott to Tomlin

let’s put it this way

do you think (under almost any circumstances) if the bills and Steelers switched quarterbacks, McDermott would even be employed?
if Kenny pickett were qb’ing this team for even 2 years, McDermott would be fired. No question. The fact Tomlin even has a winning record with that absolute dumpster fire of an offense and qb is nothing short of miraculous. Not to mention the fact he was able to corral that Antonio Brown lunatic for years and got compensation for him when he finally couldn’t


McDermott isn’t worthy to wipe Tomlin’s ass

GTFO here with that bull****
Yup.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

LMAO

comparing McDermott to Tomlin

let’s put it this way

do you think (under almost any circumstances) if the bills and Steelers switched quarterbacks, McDermott would even be employed?
if Kenny pickett were qb’ing this team for even 2 years, McDermott would be fired. No question. The fact Tomlin even has a winning record with that absolute dumpster fire of an offense and qb is nothing short of miraculous. Not to mention the fact he was able to corral that Antonio Brown lunatic for years and got compensation for him when he finally couldn’t


McDermott isn’t worthy to wipe Tomlin’s ass

GTFO here with that bull****
Finding the right QB is part of HC's job. Tomlin inherited Roethlisberger. Pickett is his 2nd drafted QB --- Rudolph is the first. So the other side of the coin maybe that with Tomlin, you may keep getting guys like Pickett and Rudolph? And the Steelers has NOT won a playoff game in 6 years.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Finding the right QB is part of HC's job. Tomlin inherited Roethlisberger. Pickett is his 2nd drafted QB --- Rudolph is the first. So the other side of the coin maybe that with Tomlin, you may keep getting guys like Pickett and Rudolph? And the Steelers has NOT won a playoff game in 6 years.
The mental gymnastics Pittsburgh natives use to bash tomlin while defending cowher will never cease to amaze me. No matter what facts and logic you present, it’s the same idiotic narrative (I lived there for 6 years from 2007 to 2013. I know)

‘Tomlin took cowhers team and won a Super Bowl so he doesn’t get credit’
while ignoring the fact cowher retired and the team was not above .500 his last season and did not make the playoffs IIRC

Now cowher gets credit for drafting rapey burger and Tomlin gets crushed for Rudolph and Pickett.

Nevermind the fact that the season before they drafted rapey burger, they finished 6-10 and were drafting 11th overall. So cowher gets credit for sucking enough to get Ben but Tomlin gets no credit for not sucking enough to get a guy like Ben?


also it took 12 years under cowher before they got qb right, but he still gets credit ?

it’s just absurd to me. I know I’ve hijacked the thread but I needed to say my piece about this

[Mace]

Listening to some of the names thrown out here....ugh...

Eric Bienemy-He wanted his shot at calling plays without Andy Reid. Ok, he got it. Washington is 22nd in the league in scoring. Their passing yards ranking is a little higher (12th) but that's because ...well...Washington passes more than anyone in the league.

Kliff Klingsbury? Really? He's the king of the 2nd half dive.

Figuring you mean me, because I mentioned Kingsbury, and also recanted in a later post.

I'm not going to blame Kingsbury for Kyler Murray who has some well documented issues, or Bienemy for Sam Howell and Ron Rivera, along with the appropriate levels of talent on their offenses. That said, I'll say again they both need to start a program not jump late in someone elses'.

I agree with your candidates, but again, wonder about their potential coordinators, thoughts on GM and interaction with a capped vet roster used to being a relative contender. It's a pickle, and still elementary because I don't think Pegula boots McDermott (no matter what I want) even if we don't make the playoffs.

I'm kind of mortified at wasting more Allen, but it looks inevitable to me.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.979019d93e57e124a0ac3dd81bd32027.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[acehole]

Talk about "ignorance". :rofl: It's irrelevant that Josh "the 2nd lowest in turnover to td ratio this year of any QB"....when the INTS that he DOES throw have had a devastating effect on wins and loses. SO much so that opposing defenses are game planning for exactly that and know how to goad Josh into making stupid throws.

In fact, that was the game plan for the two most damaging losses vs NE and Denver. NE in particular (at that time) would get behind early in games and were not built to come back. They purposely PLANNED on picking Josh off early and did exactly that on his first freakin' throw.....gift wrapping the Pats a 10 point lead and giving their team a shot in the arm that they rode to the biggest upset of the season for the Bills.


Same thing against Denver. Although the first drive was a fumble (not by Josh, thankfully) but then on the very next drive, he throws a terrible INT at the Denver 12 yard line. Then after finally getting a TD after two inept possessions ending in punts, and cutting the lead to one (9-8) then holding Denver to a FG (Denver ahead 12-8)....on the next drive the very first play he throws another INT.

There have been only two games this season that Josh has not thrown a INT....Both of those games were their biggest blow out wins.

Yeah....being "the 2nd lowest in turnover to td ratio this year of any QB" and $5 gets you a cup of Starbucks coffee, and throwing INTS (besides talking about his inopportune fumbles) in some of the worst times gets a team a 6-6 hole.

I don't think anyone is laughing but you.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Blow out? less then 6 pts is not a blow out.

I guess the alternative is a safe guy who doest give you td's?

Jets and NE come to mind? We don't have that kind of defense to hold teams to low scores. It all works together...with run game.

I think the more you post to dig yourself out of your stupid narratives the more you reveal about you not me.

I guess your type are used to just saying words and asserting them and think it's the truth ,....while at the same time hope nobody notices?

Good luck with that. You should have taken my advice to use less words and acting like the smarted guy in the room.
From now on best to ignore to not feed the attention seeking.

[acehole]

I have to say what Mc Dermot said defies any logic.
The worst part about the article is the"archetype" he carries late in games.

When you play that afraid as the leader you draw that energy to the team.
You look at the guy in the fox hole and if he is in command he has to be the first one out fearless against the enemy.

If he is a pacing sissy ***** wringing his hands on the sideline when the game is on the line...he is the sole reason this team has no killer instinct and folds late in games.
I am not saying to be a cowboy but scared money loses pots.

People say stupid things all the time. Ok Apology accepted.

What is not acceptable is to have more weapons then your opponent and getting outclassed and out maneuvered and playing not to lose.

There is redemption in this seasons lets hope he leaves the tampons home when he goes to KC.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Sometimes I feel NFL coaches, including McDermott, OVER manage in the end of the game. What if you just go with your normal defense as you have been doing all game long, applying what you learned thruout the game (i.e. adjustments) of course. Would 13 seconds, 12 men on the field stuff still happen?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Sometimes I feel NFL coaches, including McDermott, OVER manage in the end of the game. What if you just go with your normal defense as you have been doing all game long, applying what you learned thruout the game (i.e. adjustments) of course. Would 13 seconds, 12 men on the field stuff still happen?
Yup
with you totally there

he and others overthink themselves in these situations instead of just doing what has worked before

[cookie G]

Figuring you mean me, because I mentioned Kingsbury, and also recanted in a later post.

I'm not going to blame Kingsbury for Kyler Murray who has some well documented issues, or Bienemy for Sam Howell and Ron Rivera, along with the appropriate levels of talent on their offenses. That said, I'll say again they both need to start a program not jump late in someone elses'.

I agree with your candidates, but again, wonder about their potential coordinators, thoughts on GM and interaction with a capped vet roster used to being a relative contender. It's a pickle, and still elementary because I don't think Pegula boots McDermott (no matter what I want) even if we don't make the playoffs.

I'm kind of mortified at wasting more Allen, but it looks inevitable to me.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.979019d93e57e124a0ac3dd81bd32027.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

Yeah well, i have the feeling we are going to be mortified, no matter what happens.

Ok, again. They get rid of McD. People are sooo sure the next coaching hire is going to be the one.

Pegula is 0 for 6 in hiring for the Sabres, who are in an 11 year ( 12 year ?) playoff drought. He's 1 for 2 in hiring for the Bills. 1-7 overall.

Ever think he just got lucky on McD?


Pegula seems like a decent guy and I'm sure he wants to win. And he isn't shy about spending money.

But him selecting the next coach of the the Bills, which he will...well I'll just say I see another drought coming.

Pegula didn't just become a sports franchise guru at the age of 72.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah well, i have the feeling we are going to be mortified, no matter what happens.

Ok, again. They get rid of McD. People are sooo sure the next coaching hire is going to be the one.

Pegula is 0 for 6 in hiring for the Sabres, who are in an 11 year ( 12 year ?) playoff drought. He's 1 for 2 in hiring for the Bills. 1-7 overall.

Ever think he just got lucky on McD?


Pegula seems like a decent guy and I'm sure he wants to win. And he isn't shy about spending money.

But him selecting the next coach of the the Bills, which he will...well I'll just say I see another drought coming.

Pegula didn't just become a sports franchise guru at the age of 72.

This isn't the 2000s Bills where we would be getting scrap heap chumps at HC. We'd have our pick of pretty much anyone. It's a pretty glamorous job when you have a team that has Super Bowl aspirations and a top 3 NFL QB. Guys would be chomping at the bit to land this job, rather than to land the Panthers or Raiders job - examples

[Ford Pinto]

There was a quote from Tyler Dunne's article from a source. To paraphrase, just because you're a good play caller doesn't mean you're a good leader of men.

We need a leader of men.

Personally, i think we should just let Josh call all of the plays ala Peyton Manning.

Get good organizers and leaders to run the week and then just let Josh go on Sunday's (or Thursdays, or Mondays... or, evidently, Fridays now).

I believe our HC is a LEADER of men. That's how he pulled us out of the ash pit of the NFL.

[Ford Pinto]

After reading the devastating Tyler Dunne 20,000+ three part beat down of McD (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264515-He-McDermott-Problem?p=5065782&viewfull=1#post5065782), (hat tip to Jimkelly12203 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264515-He-McDermott-Problem?p=5065713&viewfull=1#post5065713), "I think it is clearly time to move on. I've been persuaded."

Tyler Dunn is a hack just making money off the NFL. He's an Independent reporter raking in big bucks by just writing controversial articles!


First, some context. Dunne’s past NFL work includes national NFL features for Bleacher Report from 2016-2020, including a deeply sourced 2019 piece (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay) on the Aaron Rodgers-Mike McCarthy relationship that drew Rodgers’ ire as a “smear attack (https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/aaron-rodgers-pushes-back-against-bleacher-report-article.html).” (Rodgers was a media antagonist long before vaccine conversations.) He was one of many B/R employees laid off in the summer of 2020 (https://awfulannouncing.com/br/bleacher-report-layoffs-ben-osborne-howard-beck-br-mag.html) around COVID-19 cuts, the winding down of B/R Mag, and their whole features division.
Dunne has since been running his independent Go Long publication (https://www.golongtd.com/) on Substack. Subscriptions there range from $8 (monthly) to $50 (annual) to $150 (yearly VIP). Content includes (https://www.golongtd.com/about) longform features, columns, Q+As, discussion threads, podcasts, work from famed Packers’ writer Bob McGinn and long-time NFL exec Jim Monos, and even regular shows with Brett Favre.

[YardRat]

The mental gymnastics Pittsburgh natives use to bash tomlin while defending cowher will never cease to amaze me. No matter what facts and logic you present, it’s the same idiotic narrative (I lived there for 6 years from 2007 to 2013. I know)

‘Tomlin took cowhers team and won a Super Bowl so he doesn’t get credit’
while ignoring the fact cowher retired and the team was not above .500 his last season and did not make the playoffs IIRC

Now cowher gets credit for drafting rapey burger and Tomlin gets crushed for Rudolph and Pickett.

Nevermind the fact that the season before they drafted rapey burger, they finished 6-10 and were drafting 11th overall. So cowher gets credit for sucking enough to get Ben but Tomlin gets no credit for not sucking enough to get a guy like Ben?


also it took 12 years under cowher before they got qb right, but he still gets credit ?

it’s just absurd to me. I know I’ve hijacked the thread but I needed to say my piece about this

Cowher took his team to a Super Bowl in year #4 with Neil O'Donnell at QB. Tomlin year #4 with Ben.

Every Super Bowl winning head coach...ever... except for John Madden had at least led their team to a Super Bowl berth within the first 5 years they were hired. Even pre-SB era, Stram and Lombardi won league championships in year 3.

This is year 7 for McD, and he doesn't qualify.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Cowher took his team to a Super Bowl in year #4 with Neil O'Donnell at QB. Tomlin year #4 with Ben.

Every Super Bowl winning head coach...ever... except for John Madden had at least led their team to a Super Bowl berth within the first 5 years they were hired. Even pre-SB era, Stram and Lombardi won league championships in year 3.

This is year 7 for McD, and he doesn't qualify.

Read what I wrote earlier
I am in NO way comparing McDermott to Tomlin.

mcdermott isn’t worthy of wiping tomlins ass

I just got off track with a cowher vs Tomlin argument

[YardRat]

Read what I wrote earlier
I am in NO way comparing McDermott to Tomlin.

mcdermott isn’t worthy of wiping tomlins ass

I just got off track with a cowher vs Tomlin argument

I know. My points were a)Cowher should probably get credit for winning a conference championship with O'Donnell, and b)McDermott hasn't achieved something that...literally...every single SB winning head coach has. Technically, even Madden qualifies because his Raiders played for a league championship in his first year, pre-merger, but the Super Bowl was a thing at that time so IMO that game overrides the league championship.

[Chet]

Yeah well, i have the feeling we are going to be mortified, no matter what happens.

Ok, again. They get rid of McD. People are sooo sure the next coaching hire is going to be the one.

Pegula is 0 for 6 in hiring for the Sabres, who are in an 11 year ( 12 year ?) playoff drought. He's 1 for 2 in hiring for the Bills. 1-7 overall.

Ever think he just got lucky on McD?


Pegula seems like a decent guy and I'm sure he wants to win. And he isn't shy about spending money.

But him selecting the next coach of the the Bills, which he will...well I'll just say I see another drought coming.

Pegula didn't just become a sports franchise guru at the age of 72.

Nobody knows if the next coach will be the guy or not. What we do know, however, is that our current one is getting worse and worse and clearly can’t motivate the team or make in-game adjustments. He’s probably the worst coach in football in critical situations.

We have a finite window of time to capitalize on the talent and greatness of Josh Allen and shouldn’t be pissing it away on a coach who can’t make the grade.

It’s time to ask for another card. We’ve had enough of holding on a soft 17

[cookie G]

This isn't the 2000s Bills where we would be getting scrap heap chumps at HC. We'd have our pick of pretty much anyone. It's a pretty glamorous job when you have a team that has Super Bowl aspirations and a top 3 NFL QB. Guys would be chomping at the bit to land this job, rather than to land the Panthers or Raiders job - examples

When the last drought began, the Bills were one year removed from the Music City Miracle and a top 2 defense. At the time, everyone in the NFL,excepting the Rams, was looking for the dominant defense:

The Titans;
The Bucs;
The Ravens;
The Rise of the Pats.

The Bills had one. They dumped Wade after an 8-8 season, brought in Greggo, who was one year removed as the DC coming off a 1 yard SB loss to the Greatest Show on Turf. He was a hot hire, who might have been the most coveted candidate out there.

and the rest...is history.

The only real change, NFL wise, may be the shift from looking for the dominant defense to looking for the dominant offense.

The Bills were certainly not a dumpster fire at the time. They became one, but they were still a contender when the drought started.

And again, the owner is 1 and 7 in his coaching hires for his sport franchises.

If this happens, we'll be dumping the 1 successful hire.

Yeah, I don't like the odds.

- - - Updated - - -


Nobody knows if the next coach will be the guy or not. What we do know, however, is that our current one is getting worse and worse and clearly can’t motivate the team or make in-game adjustments. He’s probably the worst coach in football in critical situations.

We have a finite window of time to capitalize on the talent and greatness of Josh Allen and shouldn’t be pissing it away on a coach who can’t make the grade.

It’s time to ask for another card. We’ve had enough of holding on a soft 17

Let me know your plan sometime...others are at least trying.

[Chet]

When the last drought began, the Bills were one year removed from the Music City Miracle and a top 2 defense. At the time, everyone in the NFL,excepting the Rams, was looking for the dominant defense:

The Titans;
The Bucs;
The Ravens;
The Rise of the Pats.

The Bills had one. They dumped Wade after an 8-8 season, brought in Greggo, who was one year removed as the DC coming off a 1 yard SB loss to the Greatest Show on Turf. He was a hot hire, who might have been the most coveted candidate out there.

and the rest...is history.

The only real change, NFL wise, may be the shift from looking for the dominant defense to looking for the dominant offense.

The Bills were certainly not a dumpster fire at the time. They became one, but they were still a contender when the drought started.

And again, the owner is 1 and 7 in his coaching hires for his sport franchises.

If this happens, we'll be dumping the 1 successful hire.

Yeah, I don't like the odds.

- - - Updated - - -



Let me know your plan sometime...others are at least trying.
It’s not your or my job to have a plan. We are fans not front office. And as a fan, I’d like to see this team roll the dice instead of standing pat since we are on a downward trajectory and will miss the playoffs despite no significant injuries on offense and the rest of the conference being painfully injured or mediocre.

Your “plan” seems to be embracing failure because you’re afraid of change. Take the worst coach Buffalo has had during the drought and not even they would **** 2023 up as bad as McDermott has.

[Chet]

Whatever the “plan” is, it needs to involve young offensive innovative minds. This league is leaving defensive head coaches in the dust. Even the great BB is being forced out. You either evolve with the league or you get left behind. Sean McDermott, Brandon Staley, Ron Rivera and Bill Belichick are all dead men walking. Staley and McDermott have no excuses with the players they have.

[notacon]

I don't think anyone is laughing but you.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Blow out? less then 6 pts is not a blow out.

I guess the alternative is a safe guy who doest give you td's?

Jets and NE come to mind? We don't have that kind of defense to hold teams to low scores. It all works together...with run game.

I think the more you post to dig yourself out of your stupid narratives the more you reveal about you not me.

I guess your type are used to just saying words and asserting them and think it's the truth ,....while at the same time hope nobody notices?

Good luck with that. You should have taken my advice to use less words and acting like the smarted guy in the room.
From now on best to ignore to not feed the attention seeking.

Look in the mirror. YOU are the one that has "no idea what you are talking about".

What I 100% accurately pointed out was "There have been only two games this season that Josh has not thrown a INT....Both of those games were their biggest blow out wins."

Those two games...the ONLY games Josh did not throw any INTS, were week 2 vs Las Vegas and week 4 vs Miami.

We beat the Raiders by TWENTY EIGHT POINTS...FOUR TD'S....38-10.

We best Miami by the same TWENTY EIGHT POINTS...FOUR TD'S....48-20.

Not only were those HUGE blow outs, they were by far the worst losses for both teams this season.

Las Vegas second worst loss was by 18 points vs Chicago in week 7.

For Miami it was DOUBLE their second worst loss this season (yeah....losing by 28 points is twice as much as losing by 14) at the hands of KC...by 14 points, 31-17.

Go back to gazing at your belly button.

[Mad Max]

I believe our HC is a LEADER of men. That's how he pulled us out of the ash pit of the NFL.

He is a leader, no doubt. But he’s shown to be more middle manager material…not CEO.

If not for Josh Allen, he’d have been back to being a DC somewhere long ago.

Josh Allen…that’s a true leader of men. We need his equal as Co-CEO. McDermott is not his equal.

[acehole]

Mcd's last stand and he knows it.

If he doesn't do what is needed and does not out plan... KC he know he is dead man walking.

If he plays safe in last ten min I will break a flat screen today.