An uncomfortable truth that i've come to accept...

[Jimkelly12203]

The NFL is a farce. It is bread and circuses.

pure and simple.

I remember a completely irrelevant and bad franchise following 9/11 go on an absolute rampage. That team (appropriately for the times) was called the "Patriots". And it has been well documented that they cheated their way to many superbowls.

I saw last years Superbowl. I saw that PI call at the end of the game. A penalty in the technical sense, sure... but tell me the teams weren't playing that same style of D all game? They were...

And i saw Bradberry say it was a good call right after the game. What was the cost Bradberry? What did they pay you to play that part?

Its a freaking act! The game is BS. It is a fraud.

They think we are stupid. And you know what? I think they may be right.

This cable news, social media, internet-fed world we live in today... Yeah. We are just that. STUPID!

And they're shoving it in our faces.

That call last night to negate the Lions heroic win was a corrupt piece of you know what. And it came from New York and Las Vegas.

It is an insult to our intelligence. Because most people are just plain out stupid.

I watched for 20 years as the "Patriots" got call after call against our very dumb team.

Now we have Josh. Now we are the cool kids. And i see calls going our way that shouldn't almost every single week.

The NFL is bogus. It is a fraud. You'd be better off betting on WWE matches. They're more real.

Sorry, i just had to get this off my chest.

I believe the NFL is 100% fixed. And it has been for quite some time.

The legalization of gambling has utterly and totally corrupted this game.

Don't bother watching the NFL anymore. You're better off watching Days of our Lives or World Wrestling Entertainment.

They think we are stupid. Because we (evidently) are stupid.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

😆

[Discotrish]

The NFL is a farce. It is bread and circuses.

pure and simple.



Oh, you watched last night's game? Well of course going for two in that situation made sense. And only 3 guys reported the eligible man to the refs. Etc.

On the other hand if they'd script US a Superbowl that would still make me happy.

Yeah a LOT of close games and weird wins this year. Weirder than usual. It's almost like they don't care if we know.

[Novacane]

They think they're to big to fail. I think they're arrogant and wrong long term. Goodell will be long gone when it dies so wtf does he care. The kids are not as into the NFL as my generation and ones before it and right after it. Their kids will probably be even less into it. Why do you think they're pushing the Taylor Swift/Scumbag Kelsey relationship so hard?

[Jimkelly12203]

It's almost like they don't care if we know.

That's the problem. The vast and grand majority of people are just flat out stupid. They don't care if we know because so many of us just lack the brain power.

But i'm with you. If they script us a victory... jeeze... How do i put this.

I guess i'm cool with it because they all seem so scripted at this point. But at the same time i'd know if it was just handed to us. The same way we seem to get so many BS calls in our favor these days that we never got thrown our way before the Allen era.

Ultimately, i don't like being lied to.

The league is fake. Its a goddamn shame.

[Jimkelly12203]

They think they're to big to fail. I think they're arrogant and wrong long term. Goodell will be long gone when it dies so wtf does he care. The kids are not as into the NFL as my generation and ones before it and right after it. Their kids will probably be even less into it. Why do you think they're pushing the Taylor Swift/Scumbag Kelsey relationship so hard?
Yup! 100%

[Ingtar33]

first of all, the only fixing that's going on is over point spreads, and usually only happens occasionally. I got a buddy who told me how it works and what he looks for to know it's going to happen. dude put every penny he had on the dolphins during last years early bills-fins game and told me the week leading up it would be a hatchet job by the refs; because all the money was going on the bills, so vegas pressed their fingers on the scales. He won that bet, not the only time he's done that BTW; never seen him lose his shirt, he's been picking a game or two every year and making a fortune just picking the games he thinks Vegas will make a call on.

Now i don't bet $$ on anything; I don't even play poker for money. That call at the end of the cowboys-lions game had no effect on the spread; and I actually believe the ref just ****ed it up. I've seen the video, I've seen no.68 go up to report as eligible, and while 68 was talking I saw the ref look up and at no.70 running up to him. I fully believe the ref just wrote the wrong number down in the heat of the moment.

The refs don't care who wins; but vegas cares who covers. but they don't care that much either. Generally vegas is surprisingly good at getting accurate point spreads and usually come out way ahead at the end of the year. When they start to care is when teams are "sure picks" for the betting public, to the point that all the money goes on them no matter what the spread. THOSE are the games and teams vegas dislikes, and those are the games they're most likely to make some calls IMHO.

BTW: I think the chargers game was one such game. as i said. vegas doesn't care about who wins, it's who covers. and the point spread was like 12 for that game, and almost all the money was on the bills... and frankly the flags came out hard and fierce whenever the bills looked like they were getting into the groove and busting the game open. I haven't asked him if that was one he put money on though. just a guess.

in short, yes games are fixed, no not for winners or losers, but for the spread.

[YardRat]

It's fixed for winners and losers, too.

[sahlensguy]

The age of innocence has passed welcome to the real world!

[Chet]

There’s not a goomba out there who could shave Josh’s turnovers down

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

We talking cherry turnovers. Mah favorite.

[Turf]

first of all, the only fixing that's going on is over point spreads, and usually only happens occasionally. I got a buddy who told me how it works and what he looks for to know it's going to happen. dude put every penny he had on the dolphins during last years early bills-fins game and told me the week leading up it would be a hatchet job by the refs; because all the money was going on the bills, so vegas pressed their fingers on the scales. He won that bet, not the only time he's done that BTW; never seen him lose his shirt, he's been picking a game or two every year and making a fortune just picking the games he thinks Vegas will make a call on.

Now i don't bet $$ on anything; I don't even play poker for money. That call at the end of the cowboys-lions game had no effect on the spread; and I actually believe the ref just ****ed it up. I've seen the video, I've seen no.68 go up to report as eligible, and while 68 was talking I saw the ref look up and at no.70 running up to him. I fully believe the ref just wrote the wrong number down in the heat of the moment.

The refs don't care who wins; but vegas cares who covers. but they don't care that much either. Generally vegas is surprisingly good at getting accurate point spreads and usually come out way ahead at the end of the year. When they start to care is when teams are "sure picks" for the betting public, to the point that all the money goes on them no matter what the spread. THOSE are the games and teams vegas dislikes, and those are the games they're most likely to make some calls IMHO.

BTW: I think the chargers game was one such game. as i said. vegas doesn't care about who wins, it's who covers. and the point spread was like 12 for that game, and almost all the money was on the bills... and frankly the flags came out hard and fierce whenever the bills looked like they were getting into the groove and busting the game open. I haven't asked him if that was one he put money on though. just a guess.

in short, yes games are fixed, no not for winners or losers, but for the spread.

I cannot forget my father telling me he didn't like the 7 point spread for the Bills favored over the Giants in the 1st SB. He thought the Bills should have been favored by a lot more. I always look at who they want you to bet on. Will they let it ride once in a while, yeah. But for the most part, yeah its real.

[notacon]

The NFL is a farce. It is bread and circuses.

pure and simple.

I remember a completely irrelevant and bad franchise following 9/11 go on an absolute rampage. That team (appropriately for the times) was called the "Patriots". And it has been well documented that they cheated their way to many superbowls.

I saw last years Superbowl. I saw that PI call at the end of the game. A penalty in the technical sense, sure... but tell me the teams weren't playing that same style of D all game? They were...

And i saw Bradberry say it was a good call right after the game. What was the cost Bradberry? What did they pay you to play that part?

Its a freaking act! The game is BS. It is a fraud.

They think we are stupid. And you know what? I think they may be right.

This cable news, social media, internet-fed world we live in today... Yeah. We are just that. STUPID!

And they're shoving it in our faces.

That call last night to negate the Lions heroic win was a corrupt piece of you know what. And it came from New York and Las Vegas.

It is an insult to our intelligence. Because most people are just plain out stupid.

I watched for 20 years as the "Patriots" got call after call against our very dumb team.

Now we have Josh. Now we are the cool kids. And i see calls going our way that shouldn't almost every single week.

The NFL is bogus. It is a fraud. You'd be better off betting on WWE matches. They're more real.

Sorry, i just had to get this off my chest.

I believe the NFL is 100% fixed. And it has been for quite some time.

The legalization of gambling has utterly and totally corrupted this game.

Don't bother watching the NFL anymore. You're better off watching Days of our Lives or World Wrestling Entertainment.

They think we are stupid. Because we (evidently) are stupid.

I don't give this weird conspiracy theory any credible credence.

It's as lame as the 'Trump really won 2020 in a landslide" bullcrap.

[jamze132]

Are interceptions, fumbles recoveries, and injuries scripted or “coerced”? The answer is NO.

[Mace]

Are interceptions, fumbles recoveries, and injuries scripted or “coerced”? The answer is NO.

Then picture the owners meeting where after they painfully decided the results of 544 games, 81 year old Jerry Jones finds out his team craps out again after 28 years without a home playoff run in his monster expensive mega stadium.

Broncos Walton is likely to point out gambling might make about 10 billion, he's worth 59, and with Payton and Wilson deserved a freaking playoff spot, 20 billion owner of the Seahawks is gonna ask why 10 billion Kraft from NE deserved a dynasty.....the big market teams are going to start yelling and Davis is going to rage that he's in freaking Las Vegas with a great stadium and can't get a break....18 billion Tepper in Carolina is going to be like wtf, I drafted the marquee guy and I'm getting killed here !

No. I don't buy it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

People will believe anything now without a shred of evidence.

[Saratoga Slim]

Then picture the owners meeting where after they painfully decided the results of 544 games, 81 year old Jerry Jones finds out his team craps out again after 28 years without a home playoff run in his monster expensive mega stadium.

Broncos Walton is likely to point out gambling might make about 10 billion, he's worth 59, and with Payton and Wilson deserved a freaking playoff spot, 20 billion owner of the Seahawks is gonna ask why 10 billion Kraft from NE deserved a dynasty.....the big market teams are going to start yelling and Davis is going to rage that he's in freaking Las Vegas with a great stadium and can't get a break....18 billion Tepper in Carolina is going to be like wtf, I drafted the marquee guy and I'm getting killed here !

No. I don't buy it.

Exactly. The fact that these franchises are owned by 32 ultra competitive billionaires makes it impossible to believe the game results are fixed. Don’t you think Jerry would make sure he got to win once in a while if it was all just a script? Or that some disgruntled mid level NFL or franchise employee wouldn’t write a book at some point? Or that alpha dog NFL players would just happily go along and role play?

I could see how an individual ref might intentionally make a call to affect a point spread, but the NFL as some grand orchestrated drama? Nope. Way too many moving parts.

[YardRat]

It can be rigged without the owners being in on it. And after 50+ years of hearing "Ralph is cheap, he doesn't care about winning, he just cares about making money" any support claiming the owners want to win first and foremost rings kind of hollow.

[Historian]

Then picture the owners meeting where after they painfully decided the results of 544 games, 81 year old Jerry Jones finds out his team craps out again after 28 years without a home playoff run in his monster expensive mega stadium.

Broncos Walton is likely to point out gambling might make about 10 billion, he's worth 59, and with Payton and Wilson deserved a freaking playoff spot, 20 billion owner of the Seahawks is gonna ask why 10 billion Kraft from NE deserved a dynasty.....the big market teams are going to start yelling and Davis is going to rage that he's in freaking Las Vegas with a great stadium and can't get a break....18 billion Tepper in Carolina is going to be like wtf, I drafted the marquee guy and I'm getting killed here !

No. I don't buy it.

I do.

I don't think it's a coincidence that after the 9/11 attacks, New York wins two Super Bowls, and New England wins three.

Then after the Boston Marathon backpack bomber in 2013, New England wins another three.

I don't think it's a coincidence that New Orleans, the worst franchise in the history of the league, of all cities, wins one after the massive hurricane/flood.

Let's be honest, the NFL is an entertainment vehicle, and feelgood stories sell.

It's also a charitable concern. Scholarships....cancer support, things like that.

I don't think everything is completely scripted, but I do believe team representatives sit down with focus groups and advertisers to gauge public sentiment.

And I think each year, they know who their marquee players are, and how far each team will advance.


Are interceptions, fumbles recoveries, and injuries scripted or “coerced”? The answer is NO.

Who they award the ball to can be.

How many ints are called back due to "pass interference"?

How many fumbles are taken away because "The knee was down"

When a "superstar" has a bad game, how many times are they then listed on the injury report?

I think it's very easy to sway games in one direction or another with the officials.

A team only gets the ball so many times in a half. A drive can be thwarted with one holding penalty, or lengthened by one pass interference.


I mean, if this country start a war based manipulated intel, and flat out lies, along with their partners in the mass media, it seems to me that rigging football dwarfs in comparison.

Politics, media, and sports.

It's all just drama for your entertainment.

:idunno:

[Jimkelly12203]

I don't give this weird conspiracy theory any credible credence.

It's as lame as the 'Trump really won 2020 in a landslide" bullcrap.
Who you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?

This world is not as it seems. It is far more scripted and devious than almost everyone is willing to believe. Not just sports of course. But certainly the most important sport in the most important country in human history. Yes, the NFL is a big freaking deal. There are billions of dollars on the line on stupid prop bets which are placed at half time of irrelevant games. EVERY WEEK! If you had the ability to affect that outcome you're telling me you wouldn't? And that all aside you're telling me there aren't people who do have the ability to affect those outcomes? Open up your eyes!

The NFL... Is fixed. Not every game. But sometimes that call comes in from New York and/or Las Vegas directly into that ear piece sitting on the head official.

And the result? A player that reported gets penalized for not reporting as eligible. Its as simple as that.

If you want to be a sheep then baah baah away.

I will not.

I see this league for what it is.

Bread and Circuses for the idiotic masses...

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

for me, the eagle game seemed to be a potential example.

completely hosed by the refs first half. Most of the penalties on us were legit, but the eagles got none called on them.

Then, all of a sudden, in the second half, the calls stop coming in. Did the Bills learn discipline at halftime? it was almost as if park avenue said 'this **** is too obvious. tone it down.'

[BillsFanCupp38]

The lions were trying to get cute. 70 had been eligible all game and then 68 went to report while 70 was sprinting toward the ref as if he was going to report. This was done on purpose by the lions to try and fool Dallas but all it did was confuse the refs.

[notacon]

Who you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?

This world is not as it seems. It is far more scripted and devious than almost everyone is willing to believe. Not just sports of course. But certainly the most important sport in the most important country in human history. Yes, the NFL is a big freaking deal. There are billions of dollars on the line on stupid prop bets which are placed at half time of irrelevant games. EVERY WEEK! If you had the ability to affect that outcome you're telling me you wouldn't? And that all aside you're telling me there aren't people who do have the ability to affect those outcomes? Open up your eyes!

The NFL... Is fixed. Not every game. But sometimes that call comes in from New York and/or Las Vegas directly into that ear piece sitting on the head official.

And the result? A player that reported gets penalized for not reporting as eligible. Its as simple as that.

If you want to be a sheep then baah baah away.

I will not.

I see this league for what it is.

Bread and Circuses for the idiotic masses...

I already said who I am going to believe.

On this, it is NOT you.

Sorry, but my analogy is spot on. It's as lame as the 'Trump really won 2020 in a landslide" bullcrap.

[YardRat]

The lions were trying to get cute. 70 had been eligible all game and then 68 went to report while 70 was sprinting toward the ref as if he was going to report. This was done on purpose by the lions to try and fool Dallas but all it did was confuse the refs.

I think Campbell said he went to the refs pregame and gave them the heads up they might do that. If so, it shouldn't have been confusing at all.

[YardRat]

Boom! ****ing BOOM !!



I do.

I don't think it's a coincidence that after the 9/11 attacks, New York wins two Super Bowls, and New England wins three.

Then after the Boston Marathon backpack bomber in 2013, New England wins another three.

I don't think it's a coincidence that New Orleans, the worst franchise in the history of the league, of all cities, wins one after the massive hurricane/flood.

Let's be honest, the NFL is an entertainment vehicle, and feelgood stories sell.

It's also a charitable concern. Scholarships....cancer support, things like that.

I don't think everything is completely scripted, but I do believe team representatives sit down with focus groups and advertisers to gauge public sentiment.

And I think each year, they know who their marquee players are, and how far each team will advance.



Who they award the ball to can be.

How many ints are called back due to "pass interference"?

How many fumbles are taken away because "The knee was down"

When a "superstar" has a bad game, how many times are they then listed on the injury report?

I think it's very easy to sway games in one direction or another with the officials.

A team only gets the ball so many times in a half. A drive can be thwarted with one holding penalty, or lengthened by one pass interference.


I mean, if this country start a war based manipulated intel, and flat out lies, along with their partners in the mass media, it seems to me that rigging football dwarfs in comparison.

Politics, media, and sports.

It's all just drama for your entertainment.

:idunno:

[DraftBoy]

It’s pretty easy to try and label people as sheep or dumb when your premise is that everything is a conspiracy. You never have to prove anything because it’s none of it’s real.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It’s pretty easy to try and label people as sheep or dumb when your premise is that everything is a conspiracy. You never have to prove anything because it’s none of it’s real.

Do you mean that...

"I don't think it's a coincidence that..." and
"Let's be honest..." and
"Do you really believe that..." and
"It's an uncomfortable truth that..." and
"It's an insult to our intelligent that..." and
"I'm sorry, but..." and
"You don't think it's weird that..." and
"Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes..."

...aren't facts and shouldn't be used as relevant information?

This thread is riddled with the same logic people use to claim the earth is flat, the moon landing was fake, and whatever unfounded political garbage somebody heard on facebook that day.

[Saratoga Slim]

Do you mean that...

"I don't think it's a coincidence that..." and
"Let's be honest..." and
"Do you really believe that..." and
"It's an uncomfortable truth that..." and
"It's an insult to our intelligent that..." and
"I'm sorry, but..." and
"You don't think it's weird that..." and
"Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes..."

...aren't facts and shouldn't be used as relevant information?

This thread is riddled with the same logic people use to claim the earth is flat, the moon landing was fake, and whatever unfounded political garbage somebody heard on facebook that day.

Yup. Like with every conspiracy theory, people claiming the NFL is rigged see a motive and then cherry pick facts to indicate that someone is acting on that possible motive.

Let me suggest a counter motive: if the NFL rigs the games, they lose most of their audience if anyone ever finds out it is rigged. I watch MMA but have ZERO interest in WWE. I'm flat out done with the NFL if there's any truth that it's not an open competition. And that's the case for most people.

Contrast that with the possibility that the NFL *might* have slightly higher viewership ratings, or Vegas oddsmakers *might* make slightly more money if the NFL steers the competition towards a particular story line for a given year and this is just a silly argument. There's only speculative ROI for the league to mess with the competitition. There are catastrophic consequences of the public finding out that it's not a fair competition. It would be business malpractice.

Also, this conspiracy ignores the complicated business that is the NFL. Like I said before, each team is owned by a separate billionaire owner or organization. Most of them are decidedly not in the NFL to make money. If the Waltons want more money they'll open another 10 Walmarts. They do it because it's like the most exclusive country club in the world, and competing with the other biggest dogs in the corporate universe is fun. Moreover, there's the NFLPA, which is going to sue and win if they suspect there's manipulation--players' incomes are at stake when teams win or lose, and the NFLPA is not going to sit by and let players on certain teams suffer to benefit a narrative. Finally, there's no bigger indication that the NFL wants competition than the salary cap, which the League had to fight like hell for in NFLPA negotiations. Why put in a salary cap if you want the major market teams to dominate?

Then there are the players, who are an unruly mass of mostly idiots with Twitter accounts that could not possibly be managed in a massive cover up. There's similarly no way the League could count on referees not spilling the beans either. If you're a referee and you make your way through the ranks to finally get an NFL gig, just to learn that it's rigged? Some ref is inevitibly going to squeal, and support an NFLPA lawsuit, and then go back to ref college games. The part-time NFL referee money isn't good enough to ensure that all of these guys are going to remain silent forever. The League could never cover this all up well enough to warrant the massive risk of being found out.

So despite all these hurdles to manipulation, and reasons it would be a) stupid to do so and b) impossible to cover up, we're supposed to believe that these teams are playing in the knowledge that results are predetermined? Players are incurring life-changing injuries in a charade?

Silly. Like really silly.

[notacon]

It’s pretty easy to try and label people as sheep or dumb when your premise is that everything is a conspiracy. You never have to prove anything because it’s none of it’s real.

Of course, the conspiracy pimps, when confronted with the evidence that their conspiracy is total bullcrap use that as further (false) evidence of the conspiracy. It's a self-fulfilling cycle of delusion and (usually) intentional dishonesty.

Sometimes, the lie is exposed like this recent irrefutable debunking.....
(https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2024/01/02/trump-lies-voter-fraud-2020-impact-2024-election/72057016007/)
<article class="gnt_pr"> </article>Trump paid me to find voter fraud. Then he lied after I found 2020 election wasn't stolen. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2024/01/02/trump-lies-voter-fraud-2020-impact-2024-election/72057016007/)

<style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}@font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#222222;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:#0563C1; mso-themecolor:hyperlink; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;}a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; color:#954F72; mso-themecolor:followedhyperlink; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.5pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Verdana; color:#222222; mso-font-kerning:0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1 {page:Wor</style> The almost 100% predictable response form the conspiracy pimps is that the debunking is part of the conspiracy.

There is NO "truth" to the inane idea that the "NFL is 100% fixed. And it has been for quite some time.".


None. Zero. Nada.


Once again, it's as lame as the 'Trump really won 2020 in a landslide" bullcrap.

[Chet]

You just have to crowbar the orange man into every other post, without any hesitation or even solicitation.

[DraftBoy]

Yup. Like with every conspiracy theory, people claiming the NFL is rigged see a motive and then cherry pick facts to indicate that someone is acting on that possible motive.

Let me suggest a counter motive: if the NFL rigs the games, they lose most of their audience if anyone ever finds out it is rigged. I watch MMA but have ZERO interest in WWE. I'm flat out done with the NFL if there's any truth that it's not an open competition. And that's the case for most people.

Contrast that with the possibility that the NFL *might* have slightly higher viewership ratings, or Vegas oddsmakers *might* make slightly more money if the NFL steers the competition towards a particular story line for a given year and this is just a silly argument. There's only speculative ROI for the league to mess with the competitition. There are catastrophic consequences of the public finding out that it's not a fair competition. It would be business malpractice.

Also, this conspiracy ignores the complicated business that is the NFL. Like I said before, each team is owned by a separate billionaire owner or organization. Most of them are decidedly not in the NFL to make money. If the Waltons want more money they'll open another 10 Walmarts. They do it because it's like the most exclusive country club in the world, and competing with the other biggest dogs in the corporate universe is fun. Moreover, there's the NFLPA, which is going to sue and win if they suspect there's manipulation--players' incomes are at stake when teams win or lose, and the NFLPA is not going to sit by and let players on certain teams suffer to benefit a narrative. Finally, there's no bigger indication that the NFL wants competition than the salary cap, which the League had to fight like hell for in NFLPA negotiations. Why put in a salary cap if you want the major market teams to dominate?

Then there are the players, who are an unruly mass of mostly idiots with Twitter accounts that could not possibly be managed in a massive cover up. There's similarly no way the League could count on referees not spilling the beans either. If you're a referee and you make your way through the ranks to finally get an NFL gig, just to learn that it's rigged? Some ref is inevitibly going to squeal, and support an NFLPA lawsuit, and then go back to ref college games. The part-time NFL referee money isn't good enough to ensure that all of these guys are going to remain silent forever. The League could never cover this all up well enough to warrant the massive risk of being found out.

So despite all these hurdles to manipulation, and reasons it would be a) stupid to do so and b) impossible to cover up, we're supposed to believe that these teams are playing in the knowledge that results are predetermined? Players are incurring life-changing injuries in a charade?

Silly. Like really silly.

The majority of the owners are in this to make money. This is a business for most of them and with all teams valued at over $1 billion dollars these investments represent the single largest asset most of them have on their books.

[YardRat]

Naysayers are insinuating that everybody is on it, and everything is scripted. Nobody is saying that. Those lengths don't have to be gone to to affect the outcomes of games.

[DraftBoy]

Naysayers are insinuating that everybody is on it, and everything is scripted. Nobody is saying that. Those lengths don't have to be gone to to affect the outcomes of games.

But you do have to provide evidence, not just conjecture and upset feelings.

[Jimkelly12203]

I already said who I am going to believe.

On this, it is NOT you.

Sorry, but my analogy is spot on. It's as lame as the 'Trump really won 2020 in a landslide" bullcrap.
I'm not going to criticize you for that stance. You're with the majority. But I will tell you that, in my opinion, they're counting on you having that opinion.

Maybe i'm crazy. Or maybe you're naive.

Who the hell knows... Certainly not I.

But i know what i see. And i know what i suspect.

The world is not as it seems IMHO. I think the joke is on us.

[YardRat]

But you do have to provide evidence, not just conjecture and upset feelings.

There is plenty of evidence throughout the history of the game, and every week, just not enough proof to remove reasonable doubt.

The league needing credibility for the upstart teams they are planning to merge with coincidentally is buoyed by a massive upstart in the championship game coupled with circumstantial evidence that some of the players in that game had ties to organized crime figures is evidence.

A penalty-less game against a pair of elite teams sees a double-digit lead for one early and suddenly the flags start flying in a one-sided manner, assisting the team behind and restricting the team that is leading, then returning to more even-handed application of penalties when the game becomes closer is evidence.

Circumstantial evidence of the commissioner subverting a trade process so a certain team can't get the rights to a certain player is evidence.

A referee telling a player "you haven't been around long enough to get that call" is evidence.

The laundry list of evidence is very long and riddled throughout the history of the league, there just hasn't been any fully established proof.

[DraftBoy]

There is plenty of evidence throughout the history of the game, and every week, just not enough proof to remove reasonable doubt.

Great, then let's run through it one by one.


The league needing credibility for the upstart teams they are planning to merge with coincidentally is buoyed by a massive upstart in the championship game coupled with circumstantial evidence that some of the players in that game had ties to organized crime figures is evidence.

This all just conjecture with use of what you admit is circumstantial, at best, evidence.


A penalty-less game against a pair of elite teams sees a double-digit lead for one early and suddenly the flags start flying in a one-sided manner, assisting the team behind and restricting the team that is leading, then returning to more even-handed application of penalties when the game becomes closer is evidence.

This not evidence, it's simply blind conjecture.


Circumstantial evidence of the commissioner subverting a trade process so a certain team can't get the rights to a certain player is evidence.

This is again just accusations that you're trying to identify as being fact, but lack the actual evidence to prove. If you're reliant only on circumstantial conjecture then you have nothing.


A referee telling a player "you haven't been around long enough to get that call" is evidence.

No, it's not. It's just a dumb comment.


The laundry list of evidence is very long and riddled throughout the history of the league, there just hasn't been any fully established proof.

Your laundry list did not contain one single fact or example of evidence. It's just a bunch of loose strings and disparate instances that you're clearly desperate to tie together to complete some conspiracy that will justify whatever predetermined result you've made up in your own head.

Do you have anything that is real?

[Saratoga Slim]

The majority of the owners are in this to make money. This is a business for most of them and with all teams valued at over $1 billion dollars these investments represent the single largest asset most of them have on their books.

Fine. But the argument works out the same if they're in it for money. Can you see any of them allowing their franchise to take a backseat so another one can win? Only a portion of league revenue is shared. If the Giants miss the playoffs because of some narrative the front office thinks will bring in more money for the league, revenue sharing isn't going to make them whole. Whether owners are in it for sport, or in it for money, there's still not incentive for them to participate in a fixed charade that doesn't benefit all teams equally.

This conspiracy fails not just because there is nothing but circumstantial evidence that games are fixed, but also because the motive really isn't there for a league made of individual franchises to collude.

[notacon]

You just have to crowbar the orange man into every other post, without any hesitation or even solicitation.

You have a distant relationship with accuracy and the truth.

I have 31,531 posts. It is in any realm of reality that 15,765 of them has the "orange man" in them?!?!? :rolleyes:

[notacon]

The majority of the owners are in this to make money. This is a business for most of them and with all teams valued at over $1 billion dollars these investments represent the single largest asset most of them have on their books.
I do not think that is accurate.

Every one of the owners were filthy rich well before they bought a NFL team. In fact, one cannot even think about owning a NFL team unless you are independently wealthy. VERY wealthy.

Yes, they want to "make money" but that is not the primary objective of owning a team.

There are many, MANY more efficient ways to make a LOT more money than owning a NFL team.

For these rich guys it's more credible that it's an extension of a boyhood dream. One that they could never fulfill by being a professional athlete, but they can certainly enjoy being part of the most exclusive club in the world, so close to real NFL superstars.

[DraftBoy]

Fine. But the argument works out the same if they're in it for money. Can you see any of them allowing their franchise to take a backseat so another one can win? Only a portion of league revenue is shared. If the Giants miss the playoffs because of some narrative the front office thinks will bring in more money for the league, revenue sharing isn't going to make them whole. Whether owners are in it for sport, or in it for money, there's still not incentive for them to participate in a fixed charade that doesn't benefit all teams equally.

This conspiracy fails not just because there is nothing but circumstantial evidence that games are fixed, but also because the motive really isn't there for a league made of individual franchises to collude.

Not at all, I’m just saying the NFL is a business first, foremost and above all else. Most of these guys probably don’t care about wins and losses as long as they are making profit and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There is plenty of evidence throughout the history of the game, and every week, just not enough proof to remove reasonable doubt.

The league needing credibility for the upstart teams they are planning to merge with coincidentally is buoyed by a massive upstart in the championship game coupled with circumstantial evidence that some of the players in that game had ties to organized crime figures is evidence.

A penalty-less game against a pair of elite teams sees a double-digit lead for one early and suddenly the flags start flying in a one-sided manner, assisting the team behind and restricting the team that is leading, then returning to more even-handed application of penalties when the game becomes closer is evidence.

Circumstantial evidence of the commissioner subverting a trade process so a certain team can't get the rights to a certain player is evidence.

A referee telling a player "you haven't been around long enough to get that call" is evidence.

The laundry list of evidence is very long and riddled throughout the history of the league, there just hasn't been any fully established proof.

I don't think you know what the word evidence means.

[cas22]

if its fixed Buffalo would have won 1 by now, sometimes the ref's make you think its rigged but its not, of coarse we can't stop a player taking money to not do something or miss a kick at the end of a game..

1st off there are way to many rules to the NFL game, a guy just puts his hand on a wr 50 yards down field and its a 50 yard penalty, what happened to illegal contact?? I think that college football has less penalty's called per game than the NFL doe's, and these are kids playing, you telling me they are more disciplined than a 30 year old?

time for the NFL to change there rule book to what college football use's even overtime has never been a issue in college and there are no ties.

[Bill Cody]

There is plenty of evidence throughout the history of the game, and every week, just not enough proof to remove reasonable doubt.

The league needing credibility for the upstart teams they are planning to merge with coincidentally is buoyed by a massive upstart in the championship game coupled with circumstantial evidence that some of the players in that game had ties to organized crime figures is evidence.

A penalty-less game against a pair of elite teams sees a double-digit lead for one early and suddenly the flags start flying in a one-sided manner, assisting the team behind and restricting the team that is leading, then returning to more even-handed application of penalties when the game becomes closer is evidence.

Circumstantial evidence of the commissioner subverting a trade process so a certain team can't get the rights to a certain player is evidence.

A referee telling a player "you haven't been around long enough to get that call" is evidence.

The laundry list of evidence is very long and riddled throughout the history of the league, there just hasn't been any fully established proof.

evidence IS something that furnishes proof. I find conspiracy theorists annoying and exhausting because if you don't buy their "logical" connections between x and y then, well, you're just not very bright. That's all this thread amounts to, not just this post.

[Bill Cody]

The majority of the owners are in this to make money. This is a business for most of them and with all teams valued at over $1 billion dollars these investments represent the single largest asset most of them have on their books.

Conspiracies are extremely hard to keep secret. In the case of a multi billion dollar business that is so integral to the fabric of American life as the NFL I'd say close to impossible. It's like the JFK assassination. If there was any real evidence of a conspiracy there would have been leaks and sweeping stuff under the rug would be like using an umbrella to stop a tsunami.

I'm not saying no player has ever shaved points or maybe a bad ref here and there. But some kind of systemic fraud going on? Absurd.

[YardRat]

Great, then let's run through it one by one.



This all just conjecture with use of what you admit is circumstantial, at best, evidence.



This not evidence, it's simply blind conjecture.



This is again just accusations that you're trying to identify as being fact, but lack the actual evidence to prove. If you're reliant only on circumstantial conjecture then you have nothing.



No, it's not. It's just a dumb comment.



Your laundry list did not contain one single fact or example of evidence. It's just a bunch of loose strings and disparate instances that you're clearly desperate to tie together to complete some conspiracy that will justify whatever predetermined result you've made up in your own head.

Do you have anything that is real?
It's all real.

You're confusing evidence with proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do you want to similarly claim there was no evidence in the OJ trial because he wasn't convicted?

That would be a hoot.

[Bill Cody]

It's all real.

You're confusing evidence with proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do you want to similarly claim there was no evidence in the OJ trial because he wasn't convicted?

That would be a hoot.

I think there are a few lawyers among our group. Any of them want to comment on what yardie calls "evidence"?

Show us .1% of what the state brought against OJ and I'll take your points seriously

[YardRat]

I think there are a few lawyers among our group. Any of them want to comment on what yardie calls "evidence"?

Show us .1% of what the state brought against OJ and I'll take your points seriously

If there are lawyers that disagree with proof being conclusive and evidence not, you might not want to hire them or even take their informal advice.

[DraftBoy]

It's all real.

You're confusing evidence with proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do you want to similarly claim there was no evidence in the OJ trial because he wasn't convicted?

That would be a hoot.

Lol, I can’t prove anything but it’s all real. Just because it feels real to you doesn’t mean anything.