OK Josh Allen Is a pain but my God

[BuffaloBlitz83]

He is insane too!!!! The plays he made after the turnovers. That run late felt like Elway!

[Crisis]

The game is never over with Allen as your QB, for better or worse. And I wouldn't trade the Josh Allen experience for anything else.

[Novacane]

If he can just cut down on the TO a little he could be one of the all time greats by the time he's done. He's always going to turn the ball over more than other QB's. I can live with that. Just eliminate the idiotic INTs.

[TacklingDummy]

He is insane too!!!! The plays he made after the turnovers. That run late felt like Elway!

He is the MVP but won’t win it. The media hates him.

Should be his 3rd MVP.

[Bill Cody]

The 2 picks were both bone head, fact. But the guys believe in him so much. Because he’s capable of doing anything. And he plays with such heart. Allen is the most interesting player in NFL history bar none. But he needs at least one pelt on the wall the get his due

[Kenny]

If he can just cut down on the TO a little he could be one of the all time greats by the time he's done. He's always going to turn the ball over more than other QB's. I can live with that. Just eliminate the idiotic INTs.
That'll never happen... it's who he is. For all the stupid hero balls he throws, a bunch of them also connects and everyone praises him (remember that play where he was in the air out of bounds and completed a pass to Murray against Dallas?).
Just need to accept who he is and what he brings - he plays with wreckless abandon. The more I think of it, the more I think he's like a completely amped up Mahomes.

[Kenny]

The 2 picks were both bone head, fact. But the guys believe in him so much. Because he’s capable of doing anything. And he plays with such heart. Allen is the most interesting player in NFL history bar none. But he needs at least one pelt on the wall the get his due
This is the year to get it done. KC is on the decline and no Burrow. We have a good enough defense that can keep us in any game.

[Novacane]

That'll never happen... it's who he is. For all the stupid hero balls he throws, a bunch of them also connects and everyone praises him (remember that play where he was in the air out of bounds and completed a pass to Murray against Dallas?).
Just need to accept who he is and what he brings - he plays with wreckless abandon. The more I think of it, the more I think he's like a completely amped up Mahomes.


I don't agree. He's taken it to an extreme this season. He's had high INT seasons but this year they've been insanely stupid. The first one today he didn't even look. Looked right the entire time then just chucked it to the left. Those INT aren't hero ball. They're dumb frick ball. Eliminate those.

[Crisis]

I don't agree. He's taken it to an extreme this season. He's had high INT seasons but this year they've been insanely stupid. The first one today he didn't even look. Looked right the entire time then just chucked it to the left. Those INT aren't hero ball. They're dumb frick ball. Eliminate those.

I'm not saying its the correct line of thinking at all, but he's trying to give his guys a shot. As much of the problem is the guy he's giving a shot at the ball more often than not is Gabe Davis who isn't exactly all world at improvising, tracking balls in the air, catching, or being situationally aware.

But man you watch other QBs make those same kind of throws and they get bailed out by their WRs way more often than Josh does.

[sukie]

Bonehead perhaps but most of his picks are basically punts. Like the 2 tonight.

[Novacane]

I'm not saying its the correct line of thinking at all, but he's trying to give his guys a shot. As much of the problem is the guy he's giving a shot at the ball more often than not is Gabe Davis who isn't exactly all world at improvising, tracking balls in the air, catching, or being situationally aware.

But man you watch other QBs make those same kind of throws and they get bailed out by their WRs way more often than Josh does.

You're right. For all I know Gabe wasn't supposed to cut inside there.

- - - Updated - - -


Bonehead perhaps but most of his picks are basically punts. Like the 2 tonight.

The first one was not a punt. Come on.

[Woodman]

So many points left on the field but I wouldn't trade him for anybody period.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Bonehead perhaps but most of his picks are basically punts. Like the 2 tonight.

You’re usually pretty good sukie, but when have you Punted from the 7 yard line?


come on. Terrible take

[Chet]

He's like a woman. Can't live with 'em, but definitely can't live without 'em

[Forward_Lateral]

He's like a woman. Can't live with 'em, but definitely can't live without 'em
lol

And he's always right?

[Chet]

lol

And he's always right?


Always

[Forward_Lateral]

You’re usually pretty good sukie, but when have you Punted from the 7 yard line?


come on. Terrible take

He's half right.

Anyone mad at the 2nd interception is a moron. It was 4th down, if he throws it incomplete, the Fins get it anyways, so there's absolutely no harm there trying to make a play. If Gabe doesn't trip over his own two feet, he has a chance to make a play.

[imbondz]

It would have been better for Miami if they just knocked the ball down instead of the INT.

[Historian]

He's half right.

Anyone mad at the 2nd interception is a moron. It was 4th down, if he throws it incomplete, the Fins get it anyways, so there's absolutely no harm there trying to make a play. If Gabe doesn't trip over his own two feet, he has a chance to make a play.

I kind of looked at it the same way....it was tantamount to a punt.

[Woodman]

It would have been better for Miami if they just knocked the ball down instead of the INT.
100% .... my daughter ask me why he didn't do just that.

[Goobylal]

Knox should have gotten a DPI call and 1st and goal at the 1 right before the first INT. I can't fault Josh for thinking Davis was going out instead of in and if I had to assign blame, it would be on Davis. As for the 2nd INT, since it was 4th down I can live with it and as others have said, it was dumb for the DB to intercept it, just like it was dumb for Apple to take the first INT out of the endzone.

After the game, I was amazed that Josh have almost 360 yards passing and a 78.9% completion rate. I saw at least 2 drops so it would have been probably 400 yards, over 80% and another TD.

[Kenny]

He's half right.

Anyone mad at the 2nd interception is a moron. It was 4th down, if he throws it incomplete, the Fins get it anyways, so there's absolutely no harm there trying to make a play. If Gabe doesn't trip over his own two feet, he has a chance to make a play.

And the first one, while boneheaded, should never have happened. If the refs called the PI as they should have on whoever was covering Knox, it would have been first and goal inside the 5.

[Buffalogic]

He just needs to learn when to quit a play and take a fg. But man he’s a kicking stallion, bucking bronco, a wild mustang.

[acehole]

The 2 picks were both bone head, fact. But the guys believe in him so much. Because he’s capable of doing anything. And he plays with such heart. Allen is the most interesting player in NFL history bar none. But he needs at least one pelt on the wall the get his due


2nd pick did not mater. Gave Miami worse field position.

With Josh the ints come with touch downs on his part on his stat sheet. It is more concerning when its 10 ints to 10 TD. That isn't the case with josh.

Other teams scoring on his turnover mater..as well. That does not happen all the time.

[Goobylal]

The first INT was on Davis. He should have recognized cover 0 and not tried getting fancy by cutting in when he initially was moving outside, and that's where Josh threw it.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Someone will post the all-24 review. But from what I saw yesterday, Allen was looking to the right initially. He knew Davis had one-on-one to his left and expect Davis to cut his route short and face him right away, that's why he threw the ball short there.

I think he's mad afterwards for not expecting a cover 0 blitz.

Davis is a talented receivers we will surely miss in the playoffs. BUT there are a few times this year that he and Allen were not on the same page in those kind of pressure situations whereas the rookie Kincaid is actually better at.

[Forward_Lateral]

Someone will post the all-24 review. But from what I saw yesterday, Allen was looking to the right initially. He knew Davis had one-on-one to his left and expect Davis to cut his route short and face him right away, that's why he threw the ball short there.

I think he's mad afterwards for not expecting a cover 0 blitz.

Davis is a talented receivers we will surely miss in the playoffs. BUT there are a few times this year that he and Allen were not on the same page in those kind of pressure situations whereas the rookie Kincaid is actually better at.

I saw the same thing. It looked like Josh was trying to back shoulder it kind of, so Gabe could just turn around and box the defender out. Gabe wasn't even looking, and decided to run an in route.

The play that made me the most upset was before the half. Why even run a route that is in the field of play? If you want the absolute FG, don't run anything short of the goal line, and if it's not there, throw it into the 9th row. I blame Josh, Brady and McDermott for that one.

The fumble was on Josh too.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/uploads/monthly_2024_01/Screenshot2024-01-08132806.thumb.jpg.d3cfb24dc62a8f00acab9cb9fa68a71d.jpg
So When Allen pulled the trigger, Davis had the outside leverage, which explains the direction of the throw (Admittedly not a good one: low and not further out). But Davis turned all the way inside.

[notacon]

You’re usually pretty good sukie, but when have you Punted from the 7 yard line?


come on. Terrible take

Uhhh....yeah.

All of his three turnovers (and that boneheaded throw at the end of the fist half) cost the Bills points. At LEAST TWELVE points where FG's on each of those situations would have been almost sure things.
As I correctly opined last year. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/261680-The-Bills-Have-a-QB-Problem)..."Josh Allen is THE reason the Bills are considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender, and Josh Allen will be THE reason they don’t even get there, much less win it."

The epic Miami win displayed the FULL Josh Allen Experience™

But, when the Bills needed Josh to put on the Superman Cape and put the team on his back, he came through to the nth degree.

There is NO OTHER QB I want to lead my team.

[Historian]

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/417853154_6889800901068410_2262383807114598584_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=c42490&_nc_ohc=AOyfeSyQVvAAX-1EN-f&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfDa4ccX0_tPi_Dj5-B8puFF3dEh5Ctg85OeFtImyqD44g&oe=65A12136

[YardRat]

I say it a lot, but I don't think I'll ever accept "this is who he is". I'll always want him to cut back on dumbass throws.

And it isn't just the ints, he's lost a lot of accuracy on his deep balls. The Diggs miss doesn't get any easier, and the other deep ball to Stef was underthrown and all catch. Diggs absolutely bailed out Josh on that one.

I'm glad he appears to back to 'normal' (super-human for everybody else) running, though.

[justasportsfan]

The media hates him.


media doesnt hate him, they hate the team he plays for.

[Forward_Lateral]

I say it a lot, but I don't think I'll ever accept "this is who he is". I'll always want him to cut back on dumbass throws.

And it isn't just the ints, he's lost a lot of accuracy on his deep balls. The Diggs miss doesn't get any easier, and the other deep ball to Stef was underthrown and all catch. Diggs absolutely bailed out Josh on that one.

I'm glad he appears to back to 'normal' (super-human for everybody else) running, though.
What?

Dude, you need to maybe go back and watch that throw. If he under throws it, it gets picked off.

This is not one of your smartest comments, no offense.

[mightysimi]

What is hilarious, is that Josh is a very good WRs worth of production (6tds) ahead of the nest closest player in total TDs but you only hear about turnovers.

[Historian]

https://external-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/emg1/v/t13/6131410687159222082?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewscripps.brightspotcdn.com%2Fdims4%2Fdefault%2Fb6c85c9%2F2147483647%2Fstrip%2Ftrue%2Fcrop%2F4156x2182%2B0%2B295%2Fresize%2F1200x630%21%2Fquality%2F90%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fewscripps-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%252Fc9%252Fd6%252Ff6dd17fd487eb4627bbf08c9cd97%252Fap24008087085684.jpg&fb_obo=1&utld=brightspotcdn.com&stp=c0.5000x0.5000f_dst-jpg_flffffff_p500x261_q75&ccb=13-1&oh=06_AbHJQibFbjTXyoC_VoLmB8Bl30MaOjRgiat0pdCHAOvAEg&oe=659DE3BB&_nc_sid=c63717

[YardRat]

What?

Dude, you need to maybe go back and watch that throw. If he under throws it, it gets picked off.

This is not one of your smartest comments, no offense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kHYGN4IOzg

About the five minute mark. Diggs has outside leverage, a step, and plenty of sideline to work with. Josh doesn't hit him in stride over the outside shoulder, he throws it short and inside, forcing Diggs to slow down a step and come underneath, sliding to the ground to make the catch. If the db looked back, he probably could have had the pick.

That's what it looks like to me anyways.

[Goobylal]

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/uploads/monthly_2024_01/Screenshot2024-01-08132806.thumb.jpg.d3cfb24dc62a8f00acab9cb9fa68a71d.jpg
So When Allen pulled the trigger, Davis had the outside leverage, which explains the direction of the throw (Admittedly not a good one: low and not further out). But Davis turned all the way inside.

Yup. Josh didn't have time to wait for him to break inside and Davis should have known that Josh was under duress and didn't have all the time in the world.

[Mace]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kHYGN4IOzg

About the five minute mark. Diggs has outside leverage, a step, and plenty of sideline to work with. Josh doesn't hit him in stride over the outside shoulder, he throws it short and inside, forcing Diggs to slow down a step and come underneath, sliding to the ground to make the catch. If the db looked back, he probably could have had the pick.

That's what it looks like to me anyways.

Allen was on a different path for a while, he punished bad teams and rose to good ones with a different degree of deadly precision. I don't know what changed or why, or who and when, but these games feel like way more of a crapshoot than they should be.

I find it hard to say it was because of Daboll, because Allen worked like a dog, and it seemed his success would match any offense.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe I'm underselling him but the passing offense seems way less deadly, and the games are feeling more like a crapshoot again. Which Allen turns up when ?

If it comes down to Bills/Ravens....I probably feel better with Allen from a couple years ago.

I don't know what happens, maybe I'm wrong, doesn't look to me like the same Allen though he goes superman for stretches. Dunno why. Just win again and keep it alive for another week, we went from "geez dynasty" to "hopefully" pretty quick.

[Goobylal]

After thinking about that 2nd interception, that was actually a good play considering it was 4th down. If the DB had just knocked it down like he should have, it's just an incomplete pass and turnover on downs at the spot (Miami 35). Since he caught it in the endzone, it moved back to the 20. The fumble was bad, though.

[cookie G]

I say it a lot, but I don't think I'll ever accept "this is who he is". I'll always want him to cut back on dumbass throws.

And it isn't just the ints, he's lost a lot of accuracy on his deep balls. The Diggs miss doesn't get any easier, and the other deep ball to Stef was underthrown and all catch. Diggs absolutely bailed out Josh on that one.

I'm glad he appears to back to 'normal' (super-human for everybody else) running, though.

No I don't accept "this is who he is" either. After the Jets fiasco, you could see that he was making a better effort to take care of the ball. Over the next 3 games, he had a single turnover and the Bills averaged over 30 points in those games. There were times when he wanted to go hero ball but thought against it.

When he was interviewed on the field after the game, he was asked about his 3rd and 13 run. He said something like "I wish we weren't in the position to have to make a play like that, but it is what it is". It can be done with a little effort and discipline.

My thought was..."you put yourself in that position!".

People want to defend him for the 1st INT, whatever. it was a lot of yards and a wasted drive;

The second drive, yeah, he missed Diggs on a bomb...OK...I can live with that. (and you're right, his deep field accuracy has backslid). Shakir caught a pass at the LOS and took it 45 yards on the next play anyway. But the int he threw wasn't "like a punt", they were at the Mia 35. Worse, at the beginning of the play, there was a RB or WR who moved to the left flat, who would have made the 2 yards. Another drive with lots of yards and 0 points;

They finally put points on the board on the 3rd drive with, like the first drive, with lots of short passes , moving the ball down the field, plus a big pass to Diggs.

The drive before the half, inexcusable throwing the ball in the field with 10 seconds left in the half, to a gut with 3 people around him. Again, lots of yards, 0 points;

In the drive where he fumbled, they were at the Miami 21. It wasn't a strip sack from behind or the blind side. Wilkins came in right in front of him. And considering his previous turnovers, ball security should have been at a premium. Yet another drive, lots of yards, 0 points.

So when it came time for his 3rd and 13 run, he had already left, at minimum, 9 points on the field, and most likely, closer to 14- or 17.

They never needed to be in the position for him to make a 3rd and 13 run. The reason they were in that situation wasn't McD, or the defense, or Brady, or the rest of the O. It was on him.

Contrary to popular belief, he's not at his best when he's "taking over a game". He's at his best, by far, when he's reading the field, finding the open receiver and hitting him.

THey'll need him to be at his best if they want a playoff run. I hope he realizes what his best is.

[imbondz]

The only thing that makes sense to me is he doesn’t spend as much time in the film room, preparing for each game.

[imbondz]

No I don't accept "this is who he is" either. After the Jets fiasco, you could see that he was making a better effort to take care of the ball. Over the next 3 games, he had a single turnover and the Bills averaged over 30 points in those games. There were times when he wanted to go hero ball but thought against it.

When he was interviewed on the field after the game, he was asked about his 3rd and 13 run. He said something like "I wish we weren't in the position to have to make a play like that, but it is what it is". It can be done with a little effort and discipline.

My thought was..."you put yourself in that position!".

People want to defend him for the 1st INT, whatever. it was a lot of yards and a wasted drive;

The second drive, yeah, he missed Diggs on a bomb...OK...I can live with that. (and you're right, his deep field accuracy has backslid). Shakir caught a pass at the LOS and took it 45 yards on the next play anyway. But the int he threw wasn't "like a punt", they were at the Mia 35. Worse, at the beginning of the play, there was a RB or WR who moved to the left flat, who would have made the 2 yards. Another drive with lots of yards and 0 points;

They finally put points on the board on the 3rd drive with, like the first drive, with lots of short passes , moving the ball down the field, plus a big pass to Diggs.

The drive before the half, inexcusable throwing the ball in the field with 10 seconds left in the half, to a gut with 3 people around him. Again, lots of yards, 0 points;

In the drive where he fumbled, they were at the Miami 21. It wasn't a strip sack from behind or the blind side. Wilkins came in right in front of him. And considering his previous turnovers, ball security should have been at a premium. Yet another drive, lots of yards, 0 points.

So when it came time for his 3rd and 13 run, he had already left, at minimum, 9 points on the field, and most likely, closer to 14- or 17.

They never needed to be in the position for him to make a 3rd and 13 run. The reason they were in that situation wasn't McD, or the defense, or Brady, or the rest of the O. It was on him.

Contrary to popular belief, he's not at his best when he's "taking over a game". He's at his best, by far, when he's reading the field, finding the open receiver and hitting him.

THey'll need him to be at his best if they want a playoff run. I hope he realizes what his best is.
Well said. Totally agree.

[Goobylal]

No I don't accept "this is who he is" either. After the Jets fiasco, you could see that he was making a better effort to take care of the ball. Over the next 3 games, he had a single turnover and the Bills averaged over 30 points in those games. There were times when he wanted to go hero ball but thought against it.

When he was interviewed on the field after the game, he was asked about his 3rd and 13 run. He said something like "I wish we weren't in the position to have to make a play like that, but it is what it is". It can be done with a little effort and discipline.

My thought was..."you put yourself in that position!".

People want to defend him for the 1st INT, whatever. it was a lot of yards and a wasted drive;

The second drive, yeah, he missed Diggs on a bomb...OK...I can live with that. (and you're right, his deep field accuracy has backslid). Shakir caught a pass at the LOS and took it 45 yards on the next play anyway. But the int he threw wasn't "like a punt", they were at the Mia 35. Worse, at the beginning of the play, there was a RB or WR who moved to the left flat, who would have made the 2 yards. Another drive with lots of yards and 0 points;

They finally put points on the board on the 3rd drive with, like the first drive, with lots of short passes , moving the ball down the field, plus a big pass to Diggs.

The drive before the half, inexcusable throwing the ball in the field with 10 seconds left in the half, to a gut with 3 people around him. Again, lots of yards, 0 points;

In the drive where he fumbled, they were at the Miami 21. It wasn't a strip sack from behind or the blind side. Wilkins came in right in front of him. And considering his previous turnovers, ball security should have been at a premium. Yet another drive, lots of yards, 0 points.

So when it came time for his 3rd and 13 run, he had already left, at minimum, 9 points on the field, and most likely, closer to 14- or 17.

They never needed to be in the position for him to make a 3rd and 13 run. The reason they were in that situation wasn't McD, or the defense, or Brady, or the rest of the O. It was on him.

Contrary to popular belief, he's not at his best when he's "taking over a game". He's at his best, by far, when he's reading the field, finding the open receiver and hitting him.

THey'll need him to be at his best if they want a playoff run. I hope he realizes what his best is.

As ghz showed in the screen cap, Josh threw to where Davis was. It's on Davis trying to get cute in his route-running against cover zero. Hot routes don't have time to get fancy.

As for the 2nd INT, as I said above, if the DB had done what he should have, it's just an incomplete pass and turnover on downs at the 35, instead of a pick putting the ball at the 20. At best you question whether he had a play underneath. And you have to wonder why they eschewed a 52-yard FG try?

[OpIv37]

As ghz showed in the screen cap, Josh threw to where Davis was. It's on Davis trying to get cute in his route-running against cover zero. Hot routes don't have time to get fancy.

As for the 2nd INT, as I said above, if the DB had done what he should have, it's just an incomplete pass and turnover on downs at the 35, instead of a pick putting the ball at the 20. At best you question whether he had a play underneath. And you have to wonder why they eschewed a 52-yard FG try?

It’s never Josh’s fault, right?

It should have been a blowout but Josh’s mistakes kept it close. This is how it is with him. He’s gonna do great things but he’s also going to make rookie mistakes.

Making the AFCCG in 2020 is his ceiling. He will never do better than that. I doubt he ever even equals the fear of a CG loss.

[Goobylal]

It’s never Josh’s fault, right?

It should have been a blowout but Josh’s mistakes kept it close. This is how it is with him. He’s gonna do great things but he’s also going to make rookie mistakes.

Making the AFCCG in 2020 is his ceiling. He will never do better than that. I doubt he ever even equals the fear of a CG loss.

LOL! You're real great at predictions.

Anyway...Josh has thrown several INTs this season that were his fault. The Jets game is a good example. However the first one wasn't and at worst should have been an incomplete pass if Davis had continued his route outside like he should have (actually, prior to that it should have been 1st and goal at the 1 for DPI against Knox, but the refs ignored it). As for the 2nd INT (which was on 4th down), again the INT in the endzone was the better of the non-completion scenarios but again ask yourself why they didn't try for a 52-yard FG which would have obviated the need to go for it on 4th down? I'd be concerned that the HC doesn't trust his kicker to make a kick like that.

I'll give you that the miss to Diggs was bad but even the top QBs miss those, and so too was the fumble. But then there's also the sure TD to Cook that was dropped.