The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spotrac

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I really like the suggestion on Von. Hope Von coorperates with the Bills.

And btw, I agree 100% with his take on Diggs'. Not touching it. He also mentioned something I've been saying for awhile: this would have been Diggs FA year had they not done the extension. Diggs may not be happy but he could've seen the end of it and worked extra hard this year to get the last big contract somewhere else.

Bottom line, the Bills are where the Chiefs were 2 years ago without a Lombardi trophy. The Chiefs got rid of Hill, got some draft capital, and drafted well enough to win last year with a chance to win another this year. I don't see the Bills have a different path and have no chance of getting the kind of windfall the Chiefs got from the Hill trade.

[Canadian'eh!]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

33 minutes!?

gonna need a summary from someone.

[Ginger Vitis]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

First of all... the $50 million over the cap floated by the media is misleading.. the bills just signed a boatload of players to future/reserve contracts so $41 million over is the more accurate number..

1) 6 or 7 ways you can go about the Von miller contract and none of them are good... best option.. Miller gets suspended

2) cutting poyer saves $5.5 million but a bad idea to cut him. safety position would be barren and need poyers expereince with hyde almost certainly not coming back

3) no way is Diggs is taking a pay cut.. dont ask diggs to take a pay cut..dont restructure diggs contract just leave it as it is.. diggs being cut or traded after the 2024 season saves the bills $ 5 million

4) cutting tredavious white is a no brainer.. saves the bills $ 6 million and a small possibility bring white back on a small contract

5) Gabe Davis could get a deal that averages $15 million a year and no way beane would pay him that.. The spotrac guy thinks teams like the bears and panthers could give Davis a deal that averages $15 million a year.


6) Rapp and David Edwards are good depths guys and would be good to have back but will be looking to get deals that average $ 4 million to $5 million a year...

7) Little and Espenesa are likely goners... Should be able to get Daquon jones back on a deal around $14 million for 2 years... Dane jackson..doesnt think their is a huge market for him thinks the bills can get jackson back on a deal that averages $4 million a year

8) Mitch morse...Dion Dawkins..Tauron Johnson... are very good possibilities to be extended that would free up lots of cap space in 2024

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

I've said it numerous times in numerous threads.

Some fans are making the cap situation out to be far more of a problem then it is. They want something to complain about. They want something to gripe about. They want a reason to say the Bills will suck. It was the same conversations last off season, and they managed to fill the roster.

Let it play out

[Ginger Vitis]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

7) Little and Espenesa are likely goners...

Floyd and Epenesa are likely goners... Getting back to Miller... Terrible decision to give him that contract... Spotrac guy used Jadaveon Clowney has a example of smart spending on the DE position... One year deal for $ 7 million and clowney gave the ravens 9.5 sacks... or how about Floyd..bills gave him $ 9million fora year and floyd had 10.5 sacks..

again back to miller... 1) hope he gets suspended would help a ton financially... 2) Miller has $11 million guaranteed for 2024..just pay him that in a bonus and spread it out over 5 years then process that post june 1 so where he is off the roster... will be a big dead cap hit for 2025 but saves money for the 2024 season

[jamze132]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

I've said it numerous times in numerous threads.

Some fans are making the cap situation out to be far more of a problem then it is. They want something to complain about. They want something to gripe about. They want a reason to say the Bills will suck. It was the same conversations last off season, and they managed to fill the roster.

Let it play out

But it is a big problem because it doesn’t allow us to go after much proven talent. Thank God Beane has been drafting well and that will have to continue to be competitive in the top tier of the AFC.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

I've said it numerous times in numerous threads.

Some fans are making the cap situation out to be far more of a problem then it is. They want something to complain about. They want something to gripe about. They want a reason to say the Bills will suck. It was the same conversations last off season, and they managed to fill the roster.

Let it play out

Add to Forward Lateral. It IS a problem somewhere down the line. Just WHEN. If you are looking for Championship now, you can push it down further. But it is NOT you can push it forever and thus the notion of no problem.

I believe Dallas and the Rams are example. It took them years to clean up and letting effective guys go. Floyd, Edwards, Rapp and the safety for Bengals are Rams example even for last year. But they gambled and got a superbowl. Dallas didn't when they tried a few years back.

I don't believe gambling in business. I believe good fundamental management. That's just me. That's why I don't advocate the "pushing all chips into the middle" approach. I believe you are likely win more than keep on gambling. Too many unpredictable variable like injury etc.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

Floyd and Epenesa are likely goners... Getting back to Miller... Terrible decision to give him that contract... Spotrac guy used Jadaveon Clowney has a example of smart spending on the DE position... One year deal for $ 7 million and clowney gave the ravens 9.5 sacks... or how about Floyd..bills gave him $ 9million fora year and floyd had 10.5 sacks..

again back to miller... 1) hope he gets suspended would help a ton financially... 2) Miller has $11 million guaranteed for 2024..just pay him that in a bonus and spread it out over 5 years then process that post june 1 so where he is off the roster... will be a big dead cap hit for 2025 but saves money for the 2024 season

The best case for Miller in the discussion is to convert most of his money in 2024 to bonuses. and allow him to go FA in 2025. The selling point is that if he goes big in 2024, he can get another new deal in him and the Bills can walk away with minimum loss in cap. I don't know at his age Miller will go for that, even though Matt Parrino is saying that the Bills are doing Miller good by standing on his side when the violence issue came out etc. etc., basically the good will part. I don't get it about the paying him 11 million now and then cut him post June approach. That only makes sense if Miller is completely worthless --- you are paying him to not to play for you and then you have to find someone else who can play this year. And next year, you are incurring a huge cap hit. So in essence, you are going for it again this year while screwing next year. The irony is that now the Bills are left with one quality DE signed (Rousseau), and where can you find a quality DE to start opposite him who's going to cost next to nothing? And you think it is a better defense now you can go all in for it?

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

Add to Forward Lateral. It IS a problem somewhere down the line. Just WHEN. If you are looking for Championship now, you can push it down further. But it is NOT you can push it forever and thus the notion of no problem.

I believe Dallas and the Rams are example. It took them years to clean up and letting effective guys go. Floyd, Edwards, Rapp and the safety for Bengals are Rams example even for last year. But they gambled and got a superbowl. Dallas didn't when they tried a few years back.

I don't believe gambling in business. I believe good fundamental management. That's just me. That's why I don't advocate the "pushing all chips into the middle" approach. I believe you are likely win more than keep on gambling. Too many unpredictable variable like injury etc.

There will be a major cap boom in the next 3-4 years, it's just a matter of when. They are in good shape down the road, just have to get creative this year

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

Postpone your pain now only leads to bigger pain down the road. We are in this "buy a championship" mode the last 2 seasons. Didn't quite work out. Time to move to a different phase.

You need at least 2 generational players to win a superbowl. We got one Allen working on that. We tried to buy another one in Miller on his downside. At this time, I'd think focusing on the draft, getting some prospect generational players, getting younger. Who knows? If Beane hits a few in the draft, and we get some break on the injury front, it could be right there for us the 2024 season, just as the 2022 Chiefs demonstrated, in this ever unpredictable league (yes the Chiefs is a dynasty in term of championship, but they are not like the dominating teams of the past, like the Pats where every loss is a big upset).

I don't believe FAs in 2024 will get us to where we want to go.

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

Postpone your pain now only leads to bigger pain down the road. We are in this "buy a championship" mode the last 2 seasons. Didn't quite work out. Time to move to a different phase.

You need at least 2 generational players to win a superbowl. We got one Allen working on that. We tried to buy another one in Miller on his downside. At this time, I'd think focusing on the draft, getting some prospect generational players, getting younger. Who knows? If Beane hits a few in the draft, and we get some break on the injury front, it could be right there for us the 2024 season, just as the 2022 Chiefs demonstrated, in this ever unpredictable league (yes the Chiefs is a dynasty in term of championship, but they are not like the dominating teams of the past, like the Pats where every loss is a big upset).

I don't believe FAs in 2024 will get us to where we want to go.

I honestly think the generational player will have to be drafted.

Kincaid may or may not be that guy, if he is, that would be a huge bonus, as TEs tend not to get paid nearly as astronomically as WRs.

I still believe they need to draft a WR this year, they can't afford to pass up one in this draft, IMO.

If, as in the other thread about Diggs, cutting or trading Diggs after June 1st provides as much cap relief as over the cap says, they have to seriously consider it.

[notacon]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

The cap is a "problem" for every team, sooner or later.

There are a myriad of reasonable and sound ways for a skilled GM to deal with it....especially with a roster already a perennial contender, playoff team and division winner with an elite Top 3 QB like Josh Allen. And Brandon Beane has shown himself to be extremely skilled and an excellent GM.

Every team has a roster turnover of about 25% every year. 2024 will be no different. With the Bills enjoying 10 draft picks, and Beane's record of solid drafting there is little reason to doubt his ability.

I have not listened to the video presented yet. And I thank Ginger Vitis for writing a synopsis.

Easily the highest quality beat writer following the Bills, Joe Buscaglia, wrote a detailed plan to "escape salary cap woes". I'm listing just the bullet points, if you want to read the text with detailed explanation after each one, pony up for a subscription to the best sports publication on the internet, The Athletic.

Buffalo Bills offseason: A 15-step plan to escape salary cap woes for 2024 and beyond

The Bills have 54 players under contract for the 2024 season, but because of all of their spending and pushing money forward, they have one of the most significant cap deficits in the NFL this offseason. According to OverTheCap.com, which uses a 2024 base salary cap projection of $242 million, the Bills are currently $50.6 million over that limit.

…snip…

They can try to attack the projected $50.6 million in cap debt in many ways, but what is the most realistic? And what actions put them in a better spot for the 2025 salary cap?

Here is a 15-step plan for how the Bills get cap-compliant, find breathing room to make a few moves this offseason and put themselves in better cap positioning for 2025 and beyond.



Step 1: Restructure QB Josh Allen’s contract
2024 cap savings with the move: $22.63 million
Running log of cap space after the move: -$27.97 million


Step 2: Don’t restructure WR Stefon Diggs


Step 3: Don’t restructure DE Von Miller


Step 4: Restructure CB Tre’Davious White with a non-guaranteed extension
2024 cap savings with the move: $7.39 million
Running log of cap space after the move: -$20.58 million

Step 5: Restructure CB Rasul Douglas, work toward extension
2024 cap savings with the move: $6.03 million
Running log of cap space after the move: -$-14.55 million

Step 6: Restructure TE Dawson Knox
2024 cap savings with the move: $5.86 million
Running log of cap space after the move: -$8.70 million

Step 7: Add three void years, restructure C Mitch Morse and sign a one-year extension
2024 cap savings with the move: $5.01 million
Running log of cap space after the move: -$-3.69 million

Step 8: Restructure LG Connor McGovern
2024 cap savings with the move: $3.12 million
Running log of cap space after the move: -$570K

Step 9: RB Nyheim Hines pay cut
2024 cap savings with the move: $2.5 million
Running log of cap space after the move: $1.93 million

Step 10: Restructure LB Matt Milano
2024 cap savings with the move: $2.19 million
Running log of cap space after the move: $4.12 million

Step 11: Restructure IOL Ryan Bates
2024 cap savings with the move: $2.08 million
Running log of cap space after the move: $6.20 million

Step 12: Add one void year and restructure S Jordan Poyer
2024 cap savings with the move: $1.765 million
Running log of cap space after the move: $7.96 million

Step 13: WR Deonte Harty pay cut
2024 cap savings with the move: $1.5 million
Running log of cap space after the move: $9.46 million

Step 14: Extend NCB Taron Johnson


Step 15: Extend LT Dion Dawkins



End Result

In total, with all these moves, the Bills would give themselves somewhere between $10-$20 million in cap space (depending on the extensions), they push forward $32 million to 2025, and based on their cap sheet in 2025, could be around even with the projected 2025 cap without factoring in any new money given out for extensions, free agents or upcoming draft picks. But they will still be able to compete in 2024, with a much healthier 2025 cap situation that can help them avoid pushing a lot of money forward in future years.

[YardRat]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

I've said it numerous times in numerous threads.

Some fans are making the cap situation out to be far more of a problem then it is. They want something to complain about. They want something to gripe about. They want a reason to say the Bills will suck. It was the same conversations last off season, and they managed to fill the roster.

Let it play out

Some people (including me) enjoy the off-season (playing with the cap, free agency, the draft) almost as much as...if not equally...as the regular season. "Let it play out" for the games would be the equivalent of not discussing the opening day loss to the Jets at all, until the end of the season.

[Forward_Lateral]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

Some people (including me) enjoy the off-season (playing with the cap, free agency, the draft) almost as much as...if not equally...as the regular season. "Let it play out" for the games would be the equivalent of not discussing the opening day loss to the Jets at all, until the end of the season.

There's a difference between discussing it, and becoming a manic wreck about it. I love discussing it, and the possibilities, but I'm also not sitting here wetting myself because they are "50 million" over the projected cap. They will be just fine, it's just a matter of what moves they decide to make. That's the fun part, discussing what could happen, not pissing and moaning that they are 50 million over, or that they signed Von Miller to a huge contract and he got hurt. I'm not saying you are one of those, I was more directing it to the actual guilty parties that do nothing but complain

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: The most comprehansive Bills Cap discussion I heard so far - with a guy from spot

There will be a major cap boom in the next 3-4 years, it's just a matter of when. They are in good shape down the road, just have to get creative this year

We've seen that. Cap boom means all boats, bigger or small are floated. The real measure is % of cap hits for a star QB for example. 3 - 4 year from now, Josh's extension is coming. I can't imagine it will be less than 1/4 to 1/5 of the total cap, regardless the cap is. Same as you LT, your #1 WR, etc.