Allen - the last 2 mins in the Chiefs game, no thoughts of milking the clock

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Asked point blank by Florio, Josh said pretty much "you call the best play to score." As far as giving Mahomes almost 2 minutes, he said something like one of our defensive players to make a play.

I'd say that's wrong as a QB. You are to score points, the goal for every drive. But the next level up, think like Peyton Manning, he has some growing to do. Of course the HC and OC in that situation comes into the picture as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeAouAjZyLc

[OpIv37]

That's insane. Obviously they needed to score but you can't put the ball back in Mahomes' hands.

[notacon]

Asked point blank by Florio, Josh said pretty much "you call the best play to score." As far as giving Mahomes almost 2 minutes, he said something like one of our defensive players to make a play.

I'd say that's wrong as a QB. You are to score points, the goal for every drive. But the next level up, think like Peyton Manning, he has some growing to do. Of course the HC and OC in that situation comes into the picture as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeAouAjZyLc


Thanks for posting this ghz. I have not been paying much attention to the Super Bowl week hoopla.

I did not get the "no thoughts of milking the clock" was being emphasized or really was a thing.

I'm not sure how many here have done TV/Video/Radio interviews. I have. Many times. You never ever spill every thought that pops into your head, and hesitate to divulge "family" secrets.

Of COURSE he's going to say ""you call the best play to score.". Josh is going to have to live with the decisions HE made in those two critical plays. It's just a matter of when he is going to LEARN to play smart, respecting game situation. Next level QB'ing.

But, the discussion about the end of the KC game is not the biggest take away I got from this interview. That can all be summed up with "We've been extremely close the past couple (few) years....comes down to one or two plays throughout the game and we have to find a way to make those and it starts with me...."


The most important takeaway I get from the interview is the discussion about Sean McDermott (and Rasul Douglas' comment) and how much he is a great leader on that team and his leadership turned the season around and got the Bills, not only in the playoffs, but winning another AFCE title and the #2 seed (while Miami wilted and choked) . Plus how the Ty Dunne hit piece helped motivate the team.

Josh make all the whining here about "fire McD", look as stupid and clueless as they are.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Well, I have actually thought about the last 2 min of the Chiefs playoff game, talking with my buddies over the last few weeks. It is more then clear cut as I was at the time, listening to Romo's live thoughts.

First, as a QB, you brought up playing football with the mindset of scoring TDs. Defense, is someone else's job. That's what I meant "another level up" as in Peyton Manning who even the great Belichick admitted that he's like a coach on the field. Having the overall perspective all the time. In general though, scoring as many as you, as often as you can aligns with what you want to do.

Next, in the red zone, it is not easy to score TD, especially against a top D like the Chiefs. There maybe one play they slip up and you got to seize the opportunity. That's most likely Josh is looking for.

The next point is actually very important in that scenario: What the defense, in tis case, the Chiefs D were trying to do. Put it in another way, if the Chiefs and the Bills switch positions in that scenario, what do you want McDermott to call? A lot of you may say blitz the heck out Mahomes, either nock them out of field goal range or give up a score right away so we have time for the offense to score again.

The Chiefs didn't do that. They were giving up the short area and generally guarding the 1st down line as well as protecting the end zone. And that's where a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady would recognize right away and go that direction to dump to Diggs underneath immediately. For Josh, he might have come to the same conclusion except he stayed longer on the original intent (as usual) and see Shakir breaking free. That led to what happened.

Decision making is the key here. In that situation, it is do-or-die, so the best decision is get to Diggs right away and hope he can make to the 1st down. The 2nd one is once he saw Shakir getting the chance to be open, move up the pocket like he said in the post game to position himself for the best throw, not to rush it.

[Forward_Lateral]

I wanna see the foot long cookie ffs

[DraftBoy]

He’s right.

[Forward_Lateral]

He’s right.

The Chiefs had time outs anyways. They had the right play called, the Chiefs just did a better job executing on that play than the Bills did.

Wouldn't it be nice for the Bills to be able to wreck an opponents game with a defensive player?

[DraftBoy]

The Chiefs had time outs anyways. They had the right play called, the Chiefs just did a better job executing on that play than the Bills did.

Wouldn't it be nice for the Bills to be able to wreck an opponents game with a defensive player?

At this point I’d take consistency in execution if I’m being honest. Game wrecker is not even in the thought process.

[Novacane]

He's never going to beat Mahomes if he truly believes that BS.

[Mace]

You can't assume Allen is controlling his coaching staff at that point, he's reacting to what they're directing.

If he goes rogue, everyone gripes about hero ball, or he played timid.

I just don't see this as an Allen issue.

[jamze132]

Blah blah about the Bills last drive. We wouldn’t be in that situation with a healthier defense because Kelsey wouldn’t have been able to run free. If any other LB besides Klein is guarding him, the game might have been different. Have to give credit to KC for exploiting our GLARING weakness.

[YardRat]

Regardless of 'milking the clock', the smart play was dumping off to a wide open Diggs on the crosser not throwing to a double-covered Shakir that hadn't gotten open yet. Ball inside the ten, and Josh's running ability becomes a much bigger factor. Odds of scoring and winning both go up exponentially.

Champions play the long game.

[Woodman]

Regardless of 'milking the clock', the smart play was dumping off to a wide open Diggs on the crosser not throwing to a double-covered Shakir that hadn't gotten open yet. Ball inside the ten, and Josh's running ability becomes a much bigger factor. Odds of scoring and winning both go up exponentially.

Champions play the long game.

The entire situation was playing out exactly as we had hoped.

Just had to stick with it for 2 more minutes.

[Typ0]

It's all McDermoots fault.

[Lexwhat]

Josh is 100% right. Shocking that anyone thinks it should be played any other way.

When you are down by more than 2 points and a simple FG won't win it, there is no perfect way to milk the clock to the end. We needed a TD. Allen probably could have made some better decisions, but he played a nearly perfect game otherwise.

Just like the 2022 AFC playoff game against the Chiefs - the Defense and McDermott (and Special teams) let this team down. They did absolutely nothing to help this team win.

[notacon]

Trying to blame the coaches is dumb.

Sorry, but after the two minute warning the ball was in JOSH'S HANDS!!!! HE DECIDES where to throw the ball.

He ****ed up. Simple as that. He had the chance to win the game (and leave almost no time on the clock) and he flubbed it.

[Typ0]

Josh is 100% right. Shocking that anyone thinks it should be played any other way.

When you are down by more than 2 points and a simple FG won't win it, there is no perfect way to milk the clock to the end. We needed a TD. Allen probably could have made some better decisions, but he played a nearly perfect game otherwise.

Just like the 2022 AFC playoff game against the Chiefs - the Defense and McDermott (and Special teams) let this team down. They did absolutely nothing to help this team win.

Kicking that FG was conceding a loss. There is no way around it was like McDermott giving up on the team which happened right from when they approached 1st down on that last series. They needed to very badly protect the risk of being in third and long on first and second down.

I always agree there is NOTHING that will take time off the clock like scoring a TD. Seriously, scoring a TD in that situation I bet puts us up over 80% we win that game despite the time on the clock. You are trying to pressure KC into executing perfectly else they lose the game....and instead he is backwards and does it to himself. So it's not Allen going for the TD or even the play calls it is more a seemingly simplistic philosophy stemming from whatever McDermott thinks at the moment layered on top of such complexity no one can get their heads to stop spinning enough that at critical times there are the wrong number of players on the field and/or we are burning timeouts to make sure there aren't.

McDermott could have helped the defense by going for it on 4th down ... on first down ... outside of a walk off field-goal attempt. But we weren't prepared to close the game. Sound familiar? I say it's too familiar. A little better execution by McDermott here in the way the team thinks and the systems that build and support how the team thinks is the thing that can take the step he doesn't provide and there is no horizon but the same because the same crippling force will remain at the brain of how things go in the end game.


Allen has the right idea....score a frigging TD. What the hell that pretty much is all his job is in it's entirety--get the ball score a TD.

And you wonder why QBs can develop complexes about throwing to guys due to different things. I think Josh Allen really has the right idea trying to plow through things and score TDs. That's not the point. Is the way the team functions in these situations just Josh Allen making decisions or is there a lurking force mucking things up. I think this right here is more evidence right in front of face of a lurking force that is not effective enough with Josh Allen and I would say it stems directly from the type of people these two men are. They are good people with a ton of character and integrity. I am questioning their match to overcome those last legs of adversity where you are sharp enough to make decisions together and what you have built is mighty enough to blow through the final barriers and have the proper thinking and execution aligned to play championship level football in an arena with other champions.

[Mace]

Regardless of 'milking the clock', the smart play was dumping off to a wide open Diggs on the crosser not throwing to a double-covered Shakir that hadn't gotten open yet. Ball inside the ten, and Josh's running ability becomes a much bigger factor. Odds of scoring and winning both go up exponentially.

Champions play the long game.

There's that, yes.

[Mace]

I just can't comprehend how you simplistically believe the players are entirely autonomous with your designated NFL experts directing them as their bosses when you go on and on about experts directing their employees appropriately. Just doesn't make sense to me.

That was directed at Notacon's last post, I'm sick of retyping and copying/pasting to find I'm logged off again every 30 seconds.

[Gibby 2.0]

You can't assume Allen is controlling his coaching staff at that point, he's reacting to what they're directing.

If he goes rogue, everyone gripes about hero ball, or he played timid.

I just don't see this as an Allen issue.
Way I see it:

1. 2017 @ Jags, talent issue. Great coaching and if Tyrod and Shady are healthy they probably get to Pittsburgh
2. 2019 @ Texans, playoff inexperience and Josh being very young, but ultimately McD went conservative
3. 2020 @Chiefs, the Chiefs were just the better team in terms of talent and coaching, no shame in that one
4. 2021 @Chiefs, coaching **** up
5. 2022 Bengals, I'll give em a pass they never fully recovered from Damar dying and when they had to play Cincy again they all felt they were gonna die again
6. 2023 Chiefs, Coaching **** up and Allen **** up, defense was dinged to all hell and back but McD was once again out coached.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Way I see it:

1. 2017 @ Jags, talent issue. Great coaching and if Tyrod and Shady are healthy they probably get to Pittsburgh
2. 2019 @ Texans, playoff inexperience and Josh being very young, but ultimately McD went conservative
3. 2020 @Chiefs, the Chiefs were just the better team in terms of talent and coaching, no shame in that one
4. 2021 @Chiefs, coaching **** up
5. 2022 Bengals, I'll give em a pass they never fully recovered from Damar dying and when they had to play Cincy again they all felt they were gonna die again
6. 2023 Chiefs, Coaching **** up and Allen **** up, defense was dinged to all hell and back but McD was once again out coached.

I agree with all but 2017

healthy tyrod or not, that game wasn’t winnable
tyrod never throws the ball If the receiver isn’t wide open.

Otherwise I agree completely with your assessment

[cas22]

That's insane. Obviously they needed to score but you can't put the ball back in Mahomes' hands.

what are you talking about, we couldn't even get into decent FG range let alone score a TD and script it,, no as a player unless your leading the football game and trying to run clock you have to score when the opportunity is there and Shakir was wide open, Allen got knock off his motion by Morse I believe.. what is Allen suppose to do not throw it to a wide open WR because it would be too fast? no you never run clock unless you in a winnable situation meaning either up on the score board and trying to run clock or inside the 10 yard line and down by less than 3.

its easy to sit back and say shoulda this shoulda that..

[YardRat]

what are you talking about, we couldn't even get into decent FG range let alone score a TD and script it,, no as a player unless your leading the football game and trying to run clock you have to score when the opportunity is there and Shakir was wide open, Allen got knock off his motion by Morse I believe.. what is Allen suppose to do not throw it to a wide open WR because it would be too fast? no you never run clock unless you in a winnable situation meaning either up on the score board and trying to run clock or inside the 10 yard line and down by less than 3.

its easy to sit back and say shoulda this shoulda that..

Shakir wasn't wide open when Josh released the ball, that was a bad gunslinger judgement call.
If Josh didn't have the pocket awareness to realize the pressure was coming and he needed to get rid of the ball quicker to the open receiver crossing underneath, that was a bad quarterback judgement call.

The team was in a position to take the lead late in the game, the coaches basically did their job.
The play design created a wide open receiver to catch a pass and get a first down, the offensive coordinator did his job.

Josh didn't hold up his end of the responsibility and successfully execute the play, it's that simple.

And that isn't 'shoulda-coulda-woulda', it's basic football relative to the circumstances in the moment.

[Novacane]

I love Josh Allen but the nothing is his fault fans drive me nuts.

[sahlensguy]

Like an addict that doesn't think he has a problem. He'll never learn.

[imbondz]

But Shakir was wide open. Josh makes that pass 99/100.

[sahlensguy]

But Shakir was wide open. Josh makes that pass 99/100.

So was Diggs...

[cookie G]

Shakir wasn't wide open when Josh released the ball, that was a bad gunslinger judgement call.
If Josh didn't have the pocket awareness to realize the pressure was coming and he needed to get rid of the ball quicker to the open receiver crossing underneath, that was a bad quarterback judgement call.

The team was in a position to take the lead late in the game, the coaches basically did their job.
The play design created a wide open receiver to catch a pass and get a first down, the offensive coordinator did his job.

Josh didn't hold up his end of the responsibility and successfully execute the play, it's that simple.

And that isn't 'shoulda-coulda-woulda', it's basic football relative to the circumstances in the moment.

Yeah, I can't believe you people are still arguing about this.

People are assuming that even if Diggs manages to catch a ball, that Buffalo gets down to the goal line with 10 seconds left and Allen runs it in to the endzone and its game over..

This isn't Madden.

And this isn't the KC defense of 2020, where teams can just score at will. Without KC's defense this year, they don't come close to making the SB. There is a reason that the Bills, in the second half of the season, was the only team that scored more than 20 point on the Chiefs D.

Getting in the endzone isn't quite that easy, especially in the 2nd half of games. People have fully underestimated their D this year.

So if Chris Jones doesn't affect the throw to Shakir and Buffalo scores a TD, they go up by 4 with a little less than 2 minutes left.

Actually, you saw that last night at the end of regulation. KC gets the ball with a little less than 2 minutes, they need 4 to win, 3 to tie.

They marched down the field, as expected, but couldn't get the ball into the endzone during regulation to end the game.


At that time of the game, there is a massive difference between a 4 point lead and a 3 point lead. And it played out last night...again.


Under this whole.."Allen needs to sit on the clock and wait for the last 10 seconds and then score a TD" scenario, the most likely result is that the Bills are forced to kick a FG in the redzone, the game goes into overtime, and KC wins in OT.

A 4 point lead with less than 2 minutes left is better than a tied game with 10 seconds left.

And against a team that was by far the best team in the NFL in 2nd half points allowed...take those opportunities when you can....especially when its 2nd down.

[sahlensguy]

Yeah, I can't believe you people are still arguing about this.

People are assuming that even if Diggs manages to catch a ball, that Buffalo gets down to the goal line with 10 seconds left and Allen runs it in to the endzone and its game over..

This isn't Madden.

And this isn't the KC defense of 2020, where teams can just score at will. Without KC's defense this year, they don't come close to making the SB. There is a reason that the Bills, in the second half of the season, was the only team that scored more than 20 point on the Chiefs D.

Getting in the endzone isn't quite that easy, especially in the 2nd half of games. People have fully underestimated their D this year.

So if Chris Jones doesn't affect the throw to Shakir and Buffalo scores a TD, they go up by 4 with a little less than 2 minutes left.

Actually, you saw that last night at the end of regulation. KC gets the ball with a little less than 2 minutes, they need 4 to win, 3 to tie.

They marched down the field, as expected, but couldn't get the ball into the endzone during regulation to end the game.


At that time of the game, there is a massive difference between a 4 point lead and a 3 point lead. And it played out last night...again.


Under this whole.."Allen needs to sit on the clock and wait for the last 10 seconds and then score a TD" scenario, the most likely result is that the Bills are forced to kick a FG in the redzone, the game goes into overtime, and KC wins in OT.

A 4 point lead with less than 2 minutes left is better than a tied game with 10 seconds left.

And against a team that was by far the best team in the NFL in 2nd half points allowed...take those opportunities when you can....especially when its 2nd down.

Get the first down. Run down the clock. 3 maybe 4 more shots at the endzone. Worst case, take the FG to tie with time running down.

[cas22]

So was Diggs...

either way , lets say he throws to Diggs instead of Shakir and Morse disrupts Allens throw and its a incomplete pass, there was no garuntee that just because we seen Diggs wide open for a split second that he catch's the pass if it comes his way, everyone is convinced that if Allen threw it to him it ends up complete.

my ***** is how anyone can ***** about the one player on offense who without we wouldn't even sniff the playoffs want to complain when he duz something that ends up on the wrong side, there is no QB that reads every play perfect, Mahomes included. I seen Kelsey was wide open on Mahomes int yet Pat threw it deep instead yesterday in the SB, A QB has to go threw his reads and no one on these boards has any idea as to who is the 1st read on any play, now throw in you have less than 3 seconds to decide where to go with the ball...

you win as a team and you lose as a team, bottom line is if the defense doesn't let KC score we kick there arss , don't hear anyone *****ing about the defense looking like swiss cheese all game long, no lets blame the 1 position that we finally have a real top 3 guy,,, if Allen has to have 55 TDs and less than 10 ints and end up being the mvp every year in order for this team to advance then he needs to ask to be traded.

[cas22]

Get the first down. Run down the clock. 3 maybe 4 more shots at the endzone. Worst case, take the FG to tie with time running down.

they had a chance to tie the game, Allen managed to get the team there, Bass should be getting drilled for missing, everyone is assuming that DKC wins if it go
s into overtime.. like cookie said this isn't Madden.

[cas22]

I love Josh Allen but the nothing is his fault fans drive me nuts.
blaming him for the loss wasn't his fault, no player is gonna be perfect but when you drill the 1 guy that if he wasn't in the game Buffalo wouldn't have even been close to having a chance is really wrong, it might be different if he threw a int but because fan's can see Diggs open during the play and the play ended up being incomplete ya'll want to point fingers.

wheres the blame on the olineman for not holding there block 1 second longer?

[senseofdoom]

Get the first down. Run down the clock. 3 maybe 4 more shots at the endzone. Worst case, take the FG to tie with time running down.
All of these arguments assume getting a 1st down there ultimately results in a touchdown or a FG. That's not reality. The best team in the league this season scored a TD in the redzone 66% of the time. And that rate is presumably lower against a top 5 Def like the Chiefs. Turnovers happen. Missed FGs happen. Take the damn points.

And arguing Shakir wasn't open when he threw the ball? No ****. It's called throwing with anticipation. It's something elite QBs do. Smh

[sahlensguy]

they had a chance to tie the game, Allen managed to get the team there, Bass should be getting drilled for missing, everyone is assuming that DKC wins if it go
s into overtime.. like cookie said this isn't Madden.

Madden probably incorporates more strategy than McD/Allen used. They played with blinders on and couldn't see the big picture. They wanted their TD when they wanted it and that was dumb.

[sahlensguy]

All of these arguments assume getting a 1st down there ultimately results in a touchdown or a FG. That's not reality. The best team in the league this season scored a TD in the redzone 66% of the time. And that rate is presumably lower against a top 5 Def like the Chiefs. Turnovers happen. Missed FGs happen. Take the damn points.

And arguing Shakir wasn't open when he threw the ball? No ****. It's called throwing with anticipation. It's something elite QBs do. Smh

I'm assuming nothing.

It's not wether you win or lose, it's HOW you play the game.

And the Bills played dumb.

[senseofdoom]

I'm assuming nothing.

It's not wether you win or lose, it's HOW you play the game.

And the Bills played dumb.


Dumb is choosing a 1st down, down 3 with less than 2 minutes left over a 4pt lead with less than 2 minutes left.

[sahlensguy]

Dumb is choosing a 1st down, down 3 with less than 2 minutes left over a 4pt lead with less than 2 minutes left.

The bills defense was a sieve in the fourth quarter. That's why it was important to milk the clock.

[senseofdoom]

The bills defense was a sieve in the fourth quarter. That's why it was important to milk the clock.

Milking the clock is meaningless if you don't score

[sahlensguy]

From the op:


.As far as giving Mahomes almost 2 minutes, he said something like one of our defensive players to make a play.

What's so absolutely messed up with this is, while Allen can trust the D to make a play, he can't go to Diggs for a 1st down and then trust the O to make a play.

He'll never learn, blowing this much smoke up his own ass and is why our ceiling is winning the division.

[sahlensguy]

Milking the clock is meaningless if you don't score

Getting a 1st down would have given the offense 4 downs at getting another 1st down, or scoring a TD with a tying field goal as the fail safe option. Allen couldn't trust his offense with the opportunity but he trusted his D to stop Mahonmes? Absurd. They got what they deserved.

[Novacane]

blaming him for the loss wasn't his fault, no player is gonna be perfect but when you drill the 1 guy that if he wasn't in the game Buffalo wouldn't have even been close to having a chance is really wrong, it might be different if he threw a int but because fan's can see Diggs open during the play and the play ended up being incomplete ya'll want to point fingers.

wheres the blame on the olineman for not holding there block 1 second longer?

This is the thing. You guys see Josh taking heat and you jump right to the conclusion that we blame it all on him. You act like his parents.

[Novacane]

Dumb is choosing a 1st down, down 3 with less than 2 minutes left over a 4pt lead with less than 2 minutes left.

Josh's decision gave us a 4pt lead? How did I miss that!

[senseofdoom]

Getting a 1st down would have given the offense 4 downs at getting another 1st down, or scoring a TD with a tying field goal as the fail safe option. Allen couldn't trust his offense with the opportunity but he trusted his D to stop Mahonmes? Absurd. They got what they deserved.

He trusted that Shakir would break open in the end zone and he did. Dawkins just didn't hold up long enough. Jones is a beast and he made a play. Those guys get paid too.

Any number of things could've happened in those additional plays you're clinging to and not half of them are positive. Hell, that play itself was an example of what could go wrong. How much more contact on that play do you think it would take to turn that incompletion into a pick?

[senseofdoom]

Josh's decision gave us a 4pt lead? How did I miss that!

If Dawkins held his block it would have. Can't blame the decision for that. You're arguing the result.

[Novacane]

If If If= excuses, excuses, excuses for Josh. If everyone else does their job Josh would have completed that!!!! Would he have? How many times have everyone else done their job and he overthrew an open receiver? The assertion that he makes that throw 99 out of 100 times is absurd He gets paid 45 mill for a reason. He's supposed to raise the games of those around him.

[sahlensguy]

He trusted that Shakir would break open in the end zone and he did. Dawkins just didn't hold up long enough. Jones is a beast and he made a play. Those guys get paid too.

Any number of things could've happened in those additional plays you're clinging to and not half of them are positive. Hell, that play itself was an example of what could go wrong. How much more contact on that play do you think it would take to turn that incompletion into a pick?

Our offense was driving down the field before the 2 minute warning. Our defense was a sieve the entire fourth quarter. Who do you want to trust with the ball for the final 2 minutes? Our offense, or our defense?

[Novacane]

We wouldn't be in a position to win without JA means you aren't allowed to call him out for his screw ups for a lot of you. :rolleyes:

[sahlensguy]

If If If= excuses, excuses, excuses for Josh. If everyone else does their job Josh would have completed that!!!! Would he have? How many times have everyone else done their job and he overthrew an open receiver? The assertion that he makes that throw 99 out of 100 times is absurd He gets paid 45 mill for a reason. He's supposed to raise the games of those around him.

Why in the final 2 minutes would you want to take the ball out of the offenses hands? They were controlling the clock before the two minute warning just fine. Giving the ball back to mahomes against the way RD was playing in 4th quarter? That's not a better option.

[senseofdoom]

If If If= excuses, excuses, excuses for Josh. If everyone else does their job Josh would have completed that!!!! Would he have? How many times have everyone else done their job and he overthrew an open receiver? The assertion that he makes that throw 99 out of 100 times is absurd He gets paid 45 mill for a reason. He's supposed to raise the games of those around him.
Not sure who you're directing this to but I was defending the decision to make that throw not claiming Josh is infallible

[sahlensguy]

We wouldn't be in a position to win without JA means you aren't allowed to call him out for his screw ups for a lot of you. :rolleyes:

What? I think there's a ceiling going on for Josh. Just pointing that out.

[senseofdoom]

Our offense was driving down the field before the 2 minute warning. Our defense was a sieve the entire fourth quarter. Who do you want to trust with the ball for the final 2 minutes? Our offense, or our defense?
The defense forced a fumble and a punt on the previous 2 KC possessions. The offense drove the field with dump offs and checkdowns. Those dry up in the redzone.

When in doubt, give me the lead.

[notacon]

The bills defense was a sieve in the fourth quarter. That's why it was important to milk the clock.


HUH??? Uhhhhhh....KC's defense was just as much a "sieve" as the Bills. KC scored 14 points in the second half. Buffalo scored seven.

The reason the Bills did NOT score 14 was NOT because of KC's defense....it was because Josh Allen COULD NOT GET IT DONE when it mattered the most.

[sahlensguy]

HUH??? Uhhhhhh....KC's defense was just as much a "sieve" as the Bills. KC scored 14 points in the second half. Buffalo scored seven.

The reason the Bills did NOT score 14 was NOT because of KC's defense....it was because Josh Allen COULD NOT GET IT DONE when it mattered the most.

Their D was a sieve, which is why it was a golden opportunity to milk the clock. We acted like we had one shot.

[YardRat]

But Shakir was wide open. Josh makes that pass 99/100.

But he wasn't.

There is a picture in this forum somewhere showing Shakir covered when Allen is releasing the ball.

[YardRat]

Yeah, I can't believe you people are still arguing about this.

People are assuming that even if Diggs manages to catch a ball, that Buffalo gets down to the goal line with 10 seconds left and Allen runs it in to the endzone and its game over..

This isn't Madden.

And this isn't the KC defense of 2020, where teams can just score at will. Without KC's defense this year, they don't come close to making the SB. There is a reason that the Bills, in the second half of the season, was the only team that scored more than 20 point on the Chiefs D.

Getting in the endzone isn't quite that easy, especially in the 2nd half of games. People have fully underestimated their D this year.

So if Chris Jones doesn't affect the throw to Shakir and Buffalo scores a TD, they go up by 4 with a little less than 2 minutes left.

Actually, you saw that last night at the end of regulation. KC gets the ball with a little less than 2 minutes, they need 4 to win, 3 to tie.

They marched down the field, as expected, but couldn't get the ball into the endzone during regulation to end the game.


At that time of the game, there is a massive difference between a 4 point lead and a 3 point lead. And it played out last night...again.


Under this whole.."Allen needs to sit on the clock and wait for the last 10 seconds and then score a TD" scenario, the most likely result is that the Bills are forced to kick a FG in the redzone, the game goes into overtime, and KC wins in OT.

A 4 point lead with less than 2 minutes left is better than a tied game with 10 seconds left.

And against a team that was by far the best team in the NFL in 2nd half points allowed...take those opportunities when you can....especially when its 2nd down.

I'll reiterate, even if milking clock isn't a consideration Allen made the wrong throw.

It's that simple.

And not an anomaly for Josh.

There are so many much better scenarios to follow the right throw then what the actual results turned out to be.

[cas22]

This is the thing. You guys see Josh taking heat and you jump right to the conclusion that we blame it all on him. You act like his parents.

my problem is we always want to point a finger at 1 player when in fact there were multiple bad plays through out the game that would have ended in a Buffalo win,

I know this board is for these difference's in opinions but seems like we always want to blame the best player, yes in a perfect world we dink and dunk and run the clock out and score a TD on the last play, but KC new this, the question we should be asking is why is why a deep route to begin with, could be thats what the defense was allowing, Diggs was open but there is no garuntee that he even catch's the ball if josh did throw it his way, Diggs was targeted 8 times with 3 rec, Shakir was targeted 9 times for 7 rec Cook 5 times for 4 rec Kincaid was 5 for 5 so could it be Allen has lost the confidence in Diggs? he has been the worst WR in the last 7 games.

[sahlensguy]

my problem is we always want to point a finger at 1 player when in fact there were multiple bad plays through out the game that would have ended in a Buffalo win,

I know this board is for these difference's in opinions but seems like we always want to blame the best player, yes in a perfect world we dink and dunk and run the clock out and score a TD on the last play, but KC new this, the question we should be asking is why is why a deep route to begin with, could be thats what the defense was allowing, Diggs was open but there is no garuntee that he even catch's the ball if josh did throw it his way, Diggs was targeted 8 times with 3 rec, Shakir was targeted 9 times for 7 rec Cook 5 times for 4 rec Kincaid was 5 for 5 so could it be Allen has lost the confidence in Diggs? he has been the worst WR in the last 7 games.

It was crunch time. Different standards apply.

[Typ0]

It seems tough for some to grasp it is the coaches job to prepare the players for the last two minutes of a game. Time and time again our team gives the game away during this time. Go ahead and blame it on someone else it's McDermott's fault the team is not prepared properly to close.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Look at it 2 ways.

At the micro level, yes Allen can do better at the last 2 minutes - maybe the HC/OC as well. That can be extended to some other plays - there are many breakdown films where the D has missed calls, bad alignment happened all over the place, especially in the first 3 quarters. That's on the individual players. In a 3 point game, any play that didn't made, whether by Allen or Poyer or anyone else can change the outcome.

At the macro level, you have to look at talent level and concede that the Chiefs were better than us on that day. We were barely hanging on, had to gamble on a 4th down, and needing the Chiefs committing an endzone fumble to have a chance, even then we had to execute in near perfection (from our only HoF worthy star) to potentially upset them. Look at the Chiefs, Mahomes was not perfect; he overthrew a few times. Heck even on the superbowl, he committed bad turnovers etc. But the team basically told him you don't need to be perfect. That's why I think the debate of we must draft a WR first or DT first is silly. Just improve the overall team talent level to the Chiefs!

[sahlensguy]

Look at it 2 ways.

At the micro level, yes Allen can do better at the last 2 minutes - maybe the HC/OC as well. That can be extended to some other plays - there are many breakdown films where the D has missed calls, bad alignment happened all over the place, especially in the first 3 quarters. That's on the individual players. In a 3 point game, any play that didn't made, whether by Allen or Poyer or anyone else can change the outcome.

At the macro level, you have to look at talent level and concede that the Chiefs were better than us on that day. We were barely hanging on, had to gamble on a 4th down, and needing the Chiefs committing an endzone fumble to have a chance, even then we had to execute in near perfection (from our only HoF worthy star) to potentially upset them. Look at the Chiefs, Mahomes was not perfect; he overthrew a few times. Heck even on the superbowl, he committed bad turnovers etc. But the team basically told him you don't need to be perfect. That's why I think the debate of we must draft a WR first or DT first is silly. Just improve the overall team talent level to the Chiefs!

Say what you want about talent level and execution in the game but we had them right were we wanted them at the two minute warning.

It was a new ballgame then. A clean slate. Nothing we did pryer, mattered. The game was there for the taking. An improved talent level at this point of the game would not have mattered. Bringing in studs won't make a difference in this situation. We lost because we didn't play with poise at the end, and for no good reason, either.

We choked and we'll choke again, and again until McD and Allen see that they choked. That's the only way that they will play smarter when crunch time calls again.

There's a reason why McD has a losing playoff record and that Allen is 0-5 in OT games, and it's not the teams talent level.

[Typ0]

Say what you want about talent level and execution in the game but we had them right were we wanted them at the two minute warning.

It was a new ballgame then. A clean slate. Nothing we did pryer, mattered. The game was there for the taking. An improved talent level at this point of the game would not have mattered. Bringing in studs won't make a difference in this situation. We lost because we didn't play with poise at the end, and for no good reason, either.

We choked and we'll choke again, and again until McD and Allen see that they choked. That's the only way that they will play smarter when crunch time calls again.

There's a reason why McD has a losing playoff record and that Allen is 0-5 in OT games, and it's not the teams talent level.

Our players aren't choking they are not properly prepared. It is the only explanation for something that keeps happening over and over.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Say what you want about talent level and execution in the game but we had them right were we wanted them at the two minute warning.


If you choose to stick to a narrow line like that, and make you big decision. Go ahead.

At management level, you have to zoom up and look at the big picture. Never confuse a tree from a forest.

[sahlensguy]

If you choose to stick to a narrow line like that, and make you big decision. Go ahead.

At management level, you have to zoom up and look at the big picture. Never confuse a tree from a forest.

Always get the best talent available.

Our problem in big moments is mental.

[sahlensguy]

Our players aren't choking they are not properly prepared. It is the only explanation for something that keeps happening over and over.

They/Allen choked. How else would you explain him following a successful ball controlled offense for the 58 minutes and then deviating from it at the worst possible time? Lack of preparation doesn't explain the deviation.

[Typ0]

They/Allen choked. How else would you explain him following a successful ball controlled offense for the 58 minutes and then deviating from it at the worst possible time? Lack of preparation doesn't explain the deviation.

A lot of big plays are minutia nuances gathered up by smarter players. Preparation is knowing where and when you are; down and distance what choices do you make? It's really challenging on a football team there are 11 guys on the field which happens to be pretty big. I don't know what the hell team you been watching these last few years but our guys aren't prepared properly which is what results in pointing the finger at their "execution". The information they are required to have to execute in these tense situations is not readily available. They struggle to process what's going on. Tons of mistakes are made. Games are fumbled and thrown away. Seasons are wagered on a useless tying field-goal because you got yourself into a really ****ty situation. Just attempting that kick was defeatist. It doesn't matter how it turned out we lost the game when the kicking team went onto the field.

Our guys were there mentally. They were a beat up defense but they were there mentally giving what they had to win that game. The offense battled. Last year you could, with good reason, point a finger at why they couldn't be there mentally. This season they looked there mentally to me they just blew the game at the end like they usually do when they show up mentally against a team that is also there mentally. That is the difference...forget about Dallas and Philadelphia and the Jets and start talking about how you do against opponents who are invested in the win and firing on all cylinders. I think we struggle to beat a lesser squad who comes with that fire.

The strength of our roster is going down most likely. Granted, every draft pick can work out and we can fenagle some perfect FAs but that is a tough mix of change to put together.

Then they are going to take them and prepare the same exact way.

Yeah, OK. consider me an OP sympathizer for a while.

[sahlensguy]

A lot of big plays are minutia nuances gathered up by smarter players. Preparation is knowing where and when you are; down and distance what choices do you make? It's really challenging on a football team there are 11 guys on the field which happens to be pretty big. I don't know what the hell team you been watching these last few years but our guys aren't prepared properly which is what results in pointing the finger at their "execution". The information they are required to have to execute in these tense situations is not readily available. They struggle to process what's going on. Tons of mistakes are made. Games are fumbled and thrown away. Seasons are wagered on a useless tying field-goal because you got yourself into a really ****ty situation. Just attempting that kick was defeatist. It doesn't matter how it turned out we lost the game when the kicking team went onto the field.

Our guys were there mentally. They were a beat up defense but they were there mentally giving what they had to win that game. The offense battled. Last year you could, with good reason, point a finger at why they couldn't be there mentally. This season they looked there mentally to me they just blew the game at the end like they usually do when they show up mentally against a team that is also there mentally. That is the difference...forget about Dallas and Philadelphia and the Jets and start talking about how you do against opponents who are invested in the win and firing on all cylinders. I think we struggle to beat a lesser squad who comes with that fire.

The strength of our roster is going down most likely. Granted, every draft pick can work out and we can fenagle some perfect FAs but that is a tough mix of change to put together.

Then they are going to take them and prepare the same exact way.

Yeah, OK. consider me an OP sympathizer for a while.

Well I agree we were not prepared for this situation. Especially after 13 seconds. But it still feels a lot like choking. Like you said "They struggle to process what's going on." They processed the plan just fine for 58 minutes and then went off script at the end for foolish reasons, when the pressure was on. That's choking, imo anyway.

[Typ0]

Well I agree we were not prepared for this situation. Especially after 13 seconds. But it still feels a lot like choking. Like you said "They struggle to process what's going on." They processed the plan just fine for 58 minutes and then went off script at the end for foolish reasons, when the pressure was on. That's choking, imo anyway.

Yeah. It was choking. Choking because they weren't prepared I think is what I am saying. They just don't know it well enough to execute it. All the excuses in the world we keep hearing don't mean ****.

[sahlensguy]

Yeah. It was choking. Choking because they weren't prepared I think is what I am saying. They just don't know it well enough to execute it. All the excuses in the world we keep hearing don't mean ****.

Agreed during especially that all the excuses don't mean s***, because we were right there in the end. Clean slate. New game with two minutes to go and we failed terribly

[Woodman]

Always get the best talent available.

Our problem in big moments is mental.


We proved that.