It’s narrow-minded to say Bills haven’t succeeded without a Super Bowl

[Woodman]

Bills head coach Sean McDermott knows that a Super Bowl is the ultimate goal, and his team has fallen short in each of his seven seasons at the helm. But don’t tell him Buffalo hasn’t had success.

McDermott told Tom Pelissero of NFL Network that the Super Bowl isn’t the only measure of a coach’s accomplishments, of quarterback Josh Allen’s accomplishments, or of the team’s accomplishments.

“I think like anything, when you talk about the Bills, whether it’s Josh, myself, our team, we’ve had so much success (https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-hc-sean-mcdermott-narrow-minded-to-say-buffalo-hasn-t-had-success-without-super-bowl?campaign=Twitter_atn),” McDermott said. “What’s left for Josh and for all of us is to take that one more step that we need to take. To say we haven’t had success or Josh hasn’t had success, I think would be kind of narrow-minded. It’s hard to win in the NFL, so you kind of regroup every year, and you take it one game at a time. But we’re all looking for Josh to really be that face of the franchise, like he’s been, and continuing to evolve, like he’s always done.”

[Forward_Lateral]

Oh this is going to bring all the crybaby haters to the yard

[jamze132]

I’d rather watch the Bills win 10-12 reg season games and make the playoffs, winning the division every year, even without a Super Bowl, rather than ever live thru the drought again.

We also have hope right now where before we were simply hoping to win more than we lost.

[OpIv37]

Loser talk. If Josh Allen is your QB and you can’t win even one title, it’s a failure.

[OpIv37]

I’d rather watch the Bills win 10-12 reg season games and make the playoffs, winning the division every year, even without a Super Bowl, rather than ever live thru the drought again.

We also have hope right now where before we were simply hoping to win more than we lost.

Yeah, it’s better than that, but it’s an extremely low bar. The Patriots won 6 during our drought. Mahomes already has 3. 1 in 58 SB’s shouldn’t be too much to ask.

[OpIv37]

We already have one of the greatest QB’s to never win a title in Jim Kelly.

Those early 90’s teams had 6 HOF’ers plus a HOF coach and GM. They shattered all kinds of records, including one that will prob never be broken in the number of consecutive conf titles.


History is repeating itself. We have another team getting wins and putting up monster numbers but failing to win the big prize.

[Canadian'eh!]

Loser talk. If Josh Allen is your QB and you can’t win even one title, it’s a failure.

Are things much better than the 20 years of fail? Absolutely.

But do I want a Head Coach whose attitude is “we did pretty good”? Absolutely not. There’s levels to success. We aren’t a laughingstock anymore, and if that’s your goal…. Mission accomplished.

But the only true goal of the NFL is to win a Super Bowl. The Great QBs win them. Josh Allen is great. The bar has been elevated. McD trying to lower it to save his ass is not a good look.

whether be liked It or not, the bar is now Super Bowl or it’s a failed season. And a HC who needs to claim playoff appearances are good enough is a HUGE problem.

[Canadian'eh!]

I’d rather watch the Bills win 10-12 reg season games and make the playoffs, winning the division every year, even without a Super Bowl, rather than ever live thru the drought again.

We also have hope right now where before we were simply hoping to win more than we lost.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other. The goal is Super Bowl. The HC is trying to lower that bar, which is very telling

[YardRat]

The disappointment of not being able to get over the hump is greater than trying to get to that level, the higher expectations make the fall that much farther.

Taking a trash heap and making them respectable isn't that difficult for somebody that is competent...or shouldn't be.
Staying there for an extended period of time is somewhat of an accomplishment, so kudos for that.
But when 'competent' becomes consistently the end result, one has to start looking at why they haven't been able to improve on that and figure out how to fix it.

Because ultimately the goal is supposed to be winning championships, not stacking regular season wins and breaking records.

[Forward_Lateral]

I’d rather watch the Bills win 10-12 reg season games and make the playoffs, winning the division every year, even without a Super Bowl, rather than ever live thru the drought again.

We also have hope right now where before we were simply hoping to win more than we lost.
This.

The excitement every Sunday brings me now compared to the misery it brought me for most of my life as a Bills fan is worth it alone. Do I want to see them win a Superbowl? As much as anyone on the planet.

Will I lose sleep over it if they don't? Nope. Sundays from Sept to Jan are my escape. Watching football is what I enjoy. Watching the Bills pretty much win every time they play compared to like 35% of the time is much more enjoyable and satisfying.

I do not ever want to re-live 20+ years of mediocre to terrible football teams.

[Canadian'eh!]

This.

The excitement every Sunday brings me now compared to the misery it brought me for most of my life as a Bills fan is worth it alone. Do I want to see them win a Superbowl? As much as anyone on the planet.

Will I lose sleep over it if they don't? Nope. Sundays from Sept to Jan are my escape. Watching football is what I enjoy. Watching the Bills pretty much win every time they play compared to like 35% of the time is much more enjoyable and satisfying.

I do not ever want to re-live 20+ years of mediocre to terrible football teams.

Is it more fun to watch now? Yes.
Will I stop watching if they never win a SB? No.

But the goal today is the same as it was every year they sucked. WIN THE SUPER BOWL. Being closer is not the attitude they should have.

McD is wrong. They are 'more successful" but in the NFL the only true success is measured in trophies.

[Bill Cody]

we kinda need 1

[mightysimi]

It really just boils down to how you view success. Compared to many teams, the Bills have been very successful. Compared to the Chiefs and Patriots they have not.

Like has been said though, I will take this over the drought any day. Watching the Panthers overpay guys just to get them to go there used to be us. The offseason and draft used to be our superbowl. Now there is a chance at the real one almost every year. I will take it.

[Forward_Lateral]

Is it more fun to watch now? Yes.
Will I stop watching if they never win a SB? No.

But the goal today is the same as it was every year they sucked. WIN THE SUPER BOWL. Being closer is not the attitude they should have.

McD is wrong. They are 'more successful" but in the NFL the only true success is measured in trophies.

The goal when they sucked was not a superbowl.

Anyone who says or thinks that is delusional.

[jamze132]

It doesn’t have to be one or the other. The goal is Super Bowl. The HC is trying to lower that bar, which is very telling

He’s not lowering the bar, he’s simply acknowledging where we’re at and how far we’ve come. If you don’t think he and every person at OBD is doing everything in their power to win a SB, you’re crazy. Only one team gets to win every year and it takes more than just talent and coaching to do so. It takes a LOT of luck too with injuries, scheduling, weather, other teams failures, etc. I know that sounds like a bunch of crappy excuses but it’s true. One team is able to rise above it all each year and 31 other teams fail.

[notacon]

Sean is right, of course.

[notacon]

I’d rather watch the Bills win 10-12 reg season games and make the playoffs, winning the division every year, even without a Super Bowl, rather than ever live thru the drought again.

We also have hope right now where before we were simply hoping to win more than we lost.
+1000

Most of the youngsters here, many (if not most) did not even start watching the Bills until when they were close to and getting into Super Bowls (the Jim Kelly Era). 1988 was their first 12 win season since 1964 (when the AFL played two fewer games).

Which means if you are younger than about 50 years old today, you were weaned on superlative Bills teams.

Old timers like me (and a handful of others) had to enure many, MANY more years MUCH, MUCH worse than the "drought years".

I watched every road game (home games were blacked out then...even Monday night games if not sold out 72 hours before kickoff) and listened to every other game on the radio.

Even the "Comeback game" in 1992 vs Houston was blacked out. I was living near Albany, NY at that time so I was able to watch it live.

Anyway, those under-50 fans have been SPOILED. You did not have to enure ONE win seasons (twice between 1964 when I first became a fan and 1986 when Jim Kelly era started) or TWO win seasons (three times) or even THREE win seasons (twice).

The WORST you ever had to tolerate was ONE FOUR win season, Kelly's first year as Bills QB....when everyone knew those days were coming to a rapid end. There was FOUR FOUR win seasons between 1964 and 1986.


In the "drought years" there were only ONE three win season and ONE four win season. Oh woe is me!!! :rolleyes:

That's ELEVEN 1,2, 3 or 4 win seasons out of TWENTY TWO between 1964 and 1986. Compared to only THREE of those (one THREE win and TWO FOUR win) in the THIRTY SEVEN years since the Jim Kelly Era....the youngsters here football life.

Cry me a river because you have to enure five 10+ win, FIVE consecutive playoffs and four consecutive AFCE title seasons but not SB appearances YET in the Josh Allen Era that is still in it's infancy.

[Saratoga Slim]

You can say that they're a successful franchise and still want more. Those are not exclusive concepts.

[Novacane]

He's right about the success part but calling a significant portion of your fan base narrow minded is stupid.

[Canadian'eh!]

+1000

Most of the youngsters here, many (if not most) did not even start watching the Bills until when they were close to and getting into Super Bowls (the Jim Kelly Era). 1988 was their first 12 win season since 1964 (when the AFL played two fewer games).

Which means if you are younger than about 50 years old today, you were weaned on superlative Bills teams.

Old timers like me (and a handful of others) had to enure many, MANY more years MUCH, MUCH worse than the "drought years".

I watched every road game (home games were blacked out then...even Monday night games if not sold out 72 hours before kickoff) and listened to every other game on the radio.

Even the "Comeback game" in 1992 vs Houston was blacked out. I was living near Albany, NY at that time so I was able to watch it live.

Anyway, those under-50 fans have been SPOILED. You did not have to enure ONE win seasons (twice between 1964 when I first became a fan and 1986 when Jim Kelly era started) or TWO win seasons (three times) or even THREE win seasons (twice).

The WORST you ever had to tolerate was ONE FOUR win season, Kelly's first year as Bills QB....when everyone knew those days were coming to a rapid end. There was FOUR FOUR win seasons between 1964 and 1986.


In the "drought years" there were only ONE three win season and ONE four win season. Oh woe is me!!! :rolleyes:

That's ELEVEN 1,2, 3 or 4 win seasons out of TWENTY TWO between 1964 and 1986. Compared to only THREE of those (one THREE win and TWO FOUR win) in the THIRTY SEVEN years since the Jim Kelly Era....the youngsters here football life.

Cry me a river because you have to enure five 10+ win, FIVE consecutive playoffs and four consecutive AFCE title seasons but not SB appearances YET in the Josh Allen Era that is still in it's infancy.

Calling any Bills fan “spoiled” is outright laughable.

sounds like you feel entitled to gatekeep fandom on some seniority level.

arrogant as always.

[Canadian'eh!]

He’s not lowering the bar, he’s simply acknowledging where we’re at and how far we’ve come. If you don’t think he and every person at OBD is doing everything in their power to win a SB, you’re crazy. Only one team gets to win every year and it takes more than just talent and coaching to do so. It takes a LOT of luck too with injuries, scheduling, weather, other teams failures, etc. I know that sounds like a bunch of crappy excuses but it’s true. One team is able to rise above it all each year and 31 other teams fail.

You could call a season where you don’t go winless successful. You can raise or lower the bar all you want really.

Funny how Brady and Mahomes are always do “lucky”. Unless you mean lucky to have two of the best HCs ever. Too bad we don’t. We have a guy who gets defensive because it’s not all “good job skippy!!”

[Canadian'eh!]

The goal when they sucked was not a superbowl.

Anyone who says or thinks that is delusional.

yes. It was. It is EVERY year. Even if Ralph refused to spend to win. Even if the team was trash and coached by a moron.


The inherent goal of EVERY season is to win the Super Bowl. Even when the owner has the goal of max profits and your chances are horrible. That’s why they play the games.

if not, you shouldn’t be in the league.

[OpIv37]

He’s not lowering the bar, he’s simply acknowledging where we’re at and how far we’ve come. If you don’t think he and every person at OBD is doing everything in their power to win a SB, you’re crazy. Only one team gets to win every year and it takes more than just talent and coaching to do so. It takes a LOT of luck too with injuries, scheduling, weather, other teams failures, etc. I know that sounds like a bunch of crappy excuses but it’s true. One team is able to rise above it all each year and 31 other teams fail.

I’m so tired of the “only one team can win every year” line. The Chiefs have 3 in 4 years. THREE. I’m not saying we have to do that, but at some point it HAS to be our year or this whole thing has been a failure.

“It’s better than the drought “
“31 other teams didn’t win the title either.”

That absolutely is lowering the bar.

[jamze132]

I’m so tired of the “only one team can win every year” line. The Chiefs have 3 in 4 years. THREE. I’m not saying we have to do that, but at some point it HAS to be our year or this whole thing has been a failure.

“It’s better than the drought “
“31 other teams didn’t win the title either.”

That absolutely is lowering the bar.

How many dynasties who won 3 or more SBs in such a short time frame?

[jamze132]

+1000

Most of the youngsters here, many (if not most) did not even start watching the Bills until when they were close to and getting into Super Bowls (the Jim Kelly Era). 1988 was their first 12 win season since 1964 (when the AFL played two fewer games).

Which means if you are younger than about 50 years old today, you were weaned on superlative Bills teams.

Old timers like me (and a handful of others) had to enure many, MANY more years MUCH, MUCH worse than the "drought years".

I watched every road game (home games were blacked out then...even Monday night games if not sold out 72 hours before kickoff) and listened to every other game on the radio.

Even the "Comeback game" in 1992 vs Houston was blacked out. I was living near Albany, NY at that time so I was able to watch it live.

Anyway, those under-50 fans have been SPOILED. You did not have to enure ONE win seasons (twice between 1964 when I first became a fan and 1986 when Jim Kelly era started) or TWO win seasons (three times) or even THREE win seasons (twice).

The WORST you ever had to tolerate was ONE FOUR win season, Kelly's first year as Bills QB....when everyone knew those days were coming to a rapid end. There was FOUR FOUR win seasons between 1964 and 1986.


In the "drought years" there were only ONE three win season and ONE four win season. Oh woe is me!!! :rolleyes:

That's ELEVEN 1,2, 3 or 4 win seasons out of TWENTY TWO between 1964 and 1986. Compared to only THREE of those (one THREE win and TWO FOUR win) in the THIRTY SEVEN years since the Jim Kelly Era....the youngsters here football life.

Cry me a river because you have to enure five 10+ win, FIVE consecutive playoffs and four consecutive AFCE title seasons but not SB appearances YET in the Josh Allen Era that is still in it's infancy.

I’m only 46 but I’ve watched every game possible since 86’.

[Forward_Lateral]

yes. It was. It is EVERY year. Even if Ralph refused to spend to win. Even if the team was trash and coached by a moron.


The inherent goal of EVERY season is to win the Super Bowl. Even when the owner has the goal of max profits and your chances are horrible. That’s why they play the games.

if not, you shouldn’t be in the league.

Dude. It was not the goal. You watched those teams. They didn’t spend money, they let almost every free agent walk. Not once did I say before the season “if they don’t win a Super Bowl the season will be a failure”

[YardRat]

The goal when they sucked was not a superbowl.

Anyone who says or thinks that is delusional.

Yes it was (is). Just as much as it is now. Everybody understands it's a process, and when they sucked the process was at the very beginning.

We're seven years in now and the process has been stalled for about three.

Just as when they sucked the process needed something to improve, where they are now something needs to improve.

If I own a junk car that's a piece of **** I expect it to break down. If I invest millions of dollars on a brand new, shiny toy I should expect it to get me where I want to go without failing.

[Forward_Lateral]

Yes it was (is). Just as much as it is now. Everybody understands it's a process, and when they sucked the process was at the very beginning.

We're seven years in now and the process has been stalled for about three.

Just as when they sucked the process needed something to improve, where they are now something needs to improve.

If I own a junk car that's a piece of **** I expect it to break down. If I invest millions of dollars on a brand new, shiny toy I should expect it to get me where I want to go without failing.
You just proved my point.

[Canadian'eh!]

Dude. It was not the goal. You watched those teams. They didn’t spend money, they let almost every free agent walk. Not once did I say before the season “if they don’t win a Super Bowl the season will be a failure”
Again.... Was Ralph's top priority winning it? Not particularly. His top interest was profits. But... he would have said "you should go out and win with these players" even on the cheap.

Were they handcuffed by his cheapness? Yes. Did they still try to win the SB despite it? Yes. Did they have any real hope? No. But the Coaches, Players and fans were all still trying.

It is the INHERENT goal of the NFL to win the SB.

[Canadian'eh!]

You just proved my point.

No he didn't.

His POS car is still trying to get to the same destination. Will he be surprised when it breaks down? No. But he was still trying to get to the destination.

[Forward_Lateral]

No he didn't.

His POS car is still trying to get to the same destination. Will he be surprised when it breaks down? No. But he was still trying to get to the destination.

No.

If you were actually SERIOUS about getting to your destination, you'd buy a better car that gives you a high probability of making it to the destination without breaking down along the way.

You don't take a cheap piece of junk on a cross country road trip and actually expect to make it, unless you are a complete imbecile.

[Forward_Lateral]

Again.... Was Ralph's top priority winning it? Not particularly. His top interest was profits. But... he would have said "you should go out and win with these players" even on the cheap.

Were they handcuffed by his cheapness? Yes. Did they still try to win the SB despite it? Yes. Did they have any real hope? No. But the Coaches, Players and fans were all still trying.

It is the INHERENT goal of the NFL to win the SB.

They were trying to win GAMES. Not a superbowl. They were week to week teams, and they were coached that way. The roster was not built to win a superbowl at any point in time during that era.

I don't even know how I'm arguing this with anybody who lived through the drought.

[OpIv37]

How many dynasties who won 3 or more SBs in such a short time frame?

Again, I’m not saying they need 3. But these excuses need to just stop. They need to get one. They are wasting the prime of Josh’s career.

After Kelly, it took us 20 years to find Josh. If Josh doesn’t get one and it takes another 20 years to find a QB, most of us aren’t going to be around to see what happens.

[Historian]

We're seven years in now and the process has been stalled for about three.

I beginning to lean in this direction, Rat.

It's certainly been fun watching the Bills succeed, for the most part, but you're right, we have been stuck in neutral for about three seasons.

I guess I wouldn't mind so much, if every playoff season, we were ousted in a wild shootout that could have gone either way.

Instead, we have this mid-season lull, where we lose to clearly inferior teams, then they get their heads on straight, and win the division.

Cool.

Wild card win.

Divisional round, team barely shows up, they're emotionally drained from the long stretch run, and older players are all nursing injuries.

Then they lose a divisional game at home, looking like they would rather be elsewhere.

Is that good enough?

I dunno.

I have no money tied up in them anymore, so I'm ambivalent. I have much more important things going on in my life to waste summer and fall afternoons sitting in a stadium that is Too hot/cold/windy/wet/pick your natural disaster.

And now, they just assured me that they really don't even want my business, because they've priced themselves right out of the market.

(FYI, we knew the PSL thing was on the horizon, so we saved money for it, but instead opted to put the money down on a summer home, and dumped our seasons...unbeknownst to us that it would have been that ridiculously priced!)

Trust me, we're much happier.

I'll still root for them, and in fact, purchased a new Mitchell-Ness sweatshirt on clearance yesterday.

But as far as caring as much as I used to?

Meh.

Keep Opie....fire him...whatever.

If they go in the tank, it will be much more difficult to sell those PSLs, IMO.

Here's the new sweatshirt:

https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/434323272_7157427277639782_4278429072094739798_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=efhDH4FUfmQAX95jO1l&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=03_AdSuxh_8EiiTLyiULvh74YHYKVVi8K1yvMIWgKIlDHImNw&oe=662A7E18

[Forward_Lateral]

That's a nice sweater!

[Oaf]

He’s not lowering the bar, he’s simply acknowledging where we’re at and how far we’ve come. If you don’t think he and every person at OBD is doing everything in their power to win a SB, you’re crazy. Only one team gets to win every year and it takes more than just talent and coaching to do so. It takes a LOT of luck too with injuries, scheduling, weather, other teams failures, etc. I know that sounds like a bunch of crappy excuses but it’s true. One team is able to rise above it all each year and 31 other teams fail.
This. McD very likely isn't good enough to be a SB coach as we've seen, but if anyone can work their way to it, it's him.

Who had a "successful" season last year? It's basically the SB winners (KC) plus a few plucky teams that outperformed (HOU, GB, maybe DET).

[notacon]

Calling any Bills fan “spoiled” is outright laughable.

sounds like you feel entitled to gatekeep fandom on some seniority level.

arrogant as always.

Yep. SPOILED....the facts are undeniable.

Not "arrogant" just cognizant of history and the facts. I lived it.

1968 was a banner year....1-12-1 record.

The starting QB's that year were:

Dan Darragh (7) - one of the ****test QB's of all time...started 11 games in his three year debacle of a career with a 1-10 record.

Ed Rutkowski (3) - emergency "QB" - usually a HB/WR/DB/PR - and was mostly uninspiring at those. He had a more eventful political career as Erie County Executive.

Kay Stephenson (3) - had an awful two year career as NFL QB. After one year as a kinda sorta QB for San Diego went 0-3 for the Bills in his only 3 starts of his career. He was pretty bad Bills HC too. Replaced Chuck Knox in 1983, went 8-8 first year, then 2-14 in 1984 and was fired after four loses in 1985. Replaced by the equally crappy Hank Bullough...going 2-12 after replacing the inept Stephenson, went 2-7 to start 1986, fired and replaced by Marv Levy.

Tom Flores (1) -he was washed up by then after a few decent years in the AFL....for another team (Oak).


All of these slugs would make JP Losman look like a superstar. Most of the coaches from 1964 to 1986 (except for Lou Saban and Chuck Knox) were varying degrees of awful.....Harvey Johnson (twice), John Rauch, Jim Ringo, Kay Stephenson, Hank Bulloough.....crappy to the nth degree. MUCH worse than any HC after Levy.

Anyone who started watching the NFL Bills (AFL Bills different story) after 1986 don't know how good you have it compared to before that time.

[Historian]

We should have moved Kemp and kept Lamonica.

I could never understand why Saban could never beat Shula either. He was a pretty good coach, albeit a flake.

And even when Ralph made a good decision, ala hiring Knox, it was still the wrong one, as he passed on Bill Walsh to do it.

And old Jim Ringo, poor soul trying to coach with 17,000 people in the stands, lol

[Thurmal]

Many, many fans of this team are so traumatized by the drought that they're now perfectly content to just make the playoffs every year. They don't want to try any new strategy in regard to coaching or roster development because they're afraid of slipping back into mediocrity, even though the odds of that happening when you have the most physically gifted QB ever in his prime are very slim. It's a pretty pathetic ideology.

[jamze132]

Again, I’m not saying they need 3. But these excuses need to just stop. They need to get one. They are wasting the prime of Josh’s career.

After Kelly, it took us 20 years to find Josh. If Josh doesn’t get one and it takes another 20 years to find a QB, most of us aren’t going to be around to see what happens.

You don’t think they’re not trying? lol

And who’s to say we don’t go the route of Green Bay and get fortunate with our next couple of QBs? You’re too negative bro.

[Mad Max]

Many, many fans of this team are so traumatized by the drought that they're now perfectly content to just make the playoffs every year. They don't want to try any new strategy in regard to coaching or roster development because they're afraid of slipping back into mediocrity, even though the odds of that happening when you have the most physically gifted QB ever in his prime are very slim. It's a pretty pathetic ideology.
As evidenced by the annual coaching carousel good coaches are hard to find. This is why McD is still our coach. He has been good just not good enough.

That doesn’t mean that he has unlimited time. He doesn’t. The clocks ticking and I doubt he has more than 1-2 more failures left in his tenure as Bills HC.

[Typ0]

This. McD very likely isn't good enough to be a SB coach as we've seen, but if anyone can work their way to it, it's him.

Who had a "successful" season last year? It's basically the SB winners (KC) plus a few plucky teams that outperformed (HOU, GB, maybe DET).

I would agree McDermott is a good coach but think he's going to need to sever from the Bills in order to learn and reflect on what being hungry and humble really means. Our players are not prepared properly then he throws their execution under the bus all the time. McDermott needs a real attitude adjustment then he might rise up because he's smart and disciplined and he understands the game he just doesn't understand as the head coach his team is doomed when he doesn't align things correctly and teach everyone what to do. He needs to take some steps back and reflect ....

[Mace]

I don't think McDermott publicly saying what his philosophy is anyway is all that terrible it is what it is. He claps to rally the boys on bad plays. That's McDermott. He has no fire. He's constructed a culture of consolation prizes, next game boys! We all know they're successful on a scale. My gripe would be that your hc isn't the guy for prepaid excuses unless he's feeling like he has to defend himself.

90"s Bills were on fire to get to super bowls and buzzsawed through opponents to get there before collapse.. this crew strives for getting to the playoffs, however,, and will flatline at home. 90's Bills heading to sb's, lost 5 total home games, never a playoff game at home. Horrible weather ? Welcome to our house, it's your last stop. Never came out complacent at home.

The cerebral Levy wasn't trying to cheer the boys, he was throwing his headset, screaming swearing to fire them up. 7 full seasons in to Levy, a woeful conservative coach unemployed for 4 years before we hired him, we had been to 4 super bowls.

Besides a couple players...it"s a complacent team. It"s not one step more, they're not getting to conference championships with home playoff games even, at least lose passionately.

They're coddled, not driven, McDermott is not stepping it up. They're a less successful version of the 90's Bills that will break their records but they're getting wobbly in terms of realistic contender. The real consolation prize is the gift to the fans for faith or you blow your window with a record setting elite qb and hope you find another one quick. I'm dubious.

No more happy consolation talk, take one home, we've been waiting all our lives.

[Typ0]

It is the way McDermott drives the organization with the growth mindset. It totally is what I should be doing in my classroom but there isn't time for it in the NFL. Why?

Because on a very fundamental level when you direct a team like this you show them where you want them to get but you let them figure out how to get there. That is what the growth does. More emerges. You get bigger and better input on everything. The entire team flourishes. It's like magic happening. Except there isn't time for **** to emerge and then incorporate it and make adjustments -- more organized and faster thinking leaves you in the dust.

It's great and all ... and it also is plagued with some big forms of paralysis if you aren't really careful and constantly hammering and aggressively teaching both the process and where you want to get.

Trust the process is really sound thinking until the process is driving you into a train wreck.

[Mad Max]

I don't think McDermott publicly saying what his philosophy is anyway is all that terrible it is what it is. He claps to rally the boys on bad plays. That's McDermott. He has no fire. He's constructed a culture of consolation prizes, next game boys! We all know they're successful on a scale. My gripe would be that your hc isn't the guy for prepaid excuses unless he's feeling like he has to defend himself.

90"s Bills were on fire to get to super bowls and buzzsawed through opponents to get there before collapse.. this crew strives for getting to the playoffs, however,, and will flatline at home. 90's Bills heading to sb's, lost 5 total home games, never a playoff game at home. Horrible weather ? Welcome to our house, it's your last stop. Never came out complacent at home.

The cerebral Levy wasn't trying to cheer the boys, he was throwing his headset, screaming swearing to fire them up. 7 full seasons in to Levy, a woeful conservative coach unemployed for 4 years before we hired him, we had been to 4 super bowls.

Besides a couple players...it"s a complacent team. It"s not one step more, they're not getting to conference championships with home playoff games even, at least lose passionately.

They're coddled, not driven, McDermott is not stepping it up. They're a less successful version of the 90's Bills that will break their records but they're getting wobbly in terms of realistic contender. The real consolation prize is the gift to the fans for faith or you blow your window with a record setting elite qb and hope you find another one quick. I'm dubious.

No more happy consolation talk, take one home, we've been waiting all our lives.Amen brotha.

You got me thinking about the personalities of SB winning coaches and most of them are ball breakers at least as much as they are cheerleaders.

I still have a little hope that opie can bring Vince home to us but have at least as much expectation that he doesn’t have more than 1-2 more shots at him.