Can you win a Super Bowl without a great #1 WR?

[Woodman]

Do the KC Chiefs have a great #1 WR?

Or do they have an innovative attack?

Can RB's, Slot receivers or TE's be your #1 threat or does it have to be the WR that you mortgage the farm for?

The game is about scoring points and defense ..... blocking and tackling.

We might just see a whole new approach this season ..... exploiting the skills across the board.

Easier to maintain when you can interchange and not live or die with one area with one exceptional player in my judgement.

Keep em guessing!!!!

[kgun12]

When you look at the Chiefs and Patriots SB teams, you won’t find a Hall of Fame WR on and of those teams. So the answer is absolutely.

[kgun12]

When you look at the Chiefs and Patriots SB teams, you won’t find a Hall of Fame WR on and of those teams let alone a true #1. So the answer is absolutely.

[sahlensguy]

When you look at the Chiefs and Patriots SB teams, you won’t find a Hall of Fame WR on and of those teams. So the answer is absolutely.

But the did have/had 1st ballot HOF TEs.

So the answer to the OP is no. But yes

[notacon]

"Can you win a Super Bowl without a great #1 WR?"


Duh. Yes, of course.

[Mad Max]

But the did have/had 1st ballot HOF TEs.

So the answer to the OP is no. But yes

You don’t need a true number one nor do you need a stud TE. Brady won several Super Bowls without either, The Buccaneers won their first one without either, the Seahawks had neither. I’m sure there are a bunch more.

You don’t even need a great QB necessarily. Having those components helps obviously but winning elixirs have been stirred up without.

[Chet]

Can you win one with a dip**** HC is the better question. I can think of only Barry Switzer or Mike Ditka, but they had 2 of the most stacked teams to ever play.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Look at Stafford progression after Calvin left.

Eli improved after Jeremy Shockey I know he’s a TE but he was loudmouth

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Look at Stafford improvement without Calvin

[kgun12]

But the did have/had 1st ballot HOF TEs.

So the answer to the OP is no. But yes

I talked about this already in another thred, but this specifically asked about "WR". However, TE isn't a needed either. People can say what they want, it's still defense. Look at Trent Differ.

[notacon]

I talked about this already in another thred, but this specifically asked about "WR". However, TE isn't a needed either. People can say what they want, it's still defense. Look at Trent Differ.


I understand what you are trying to say. But, no, it's NOT "still defense". Not to say that defense does not matter, but the old adage that "defense wins championships" is simply outdated and, eh...old.

You need to go back TWENTY THREE YEARS to dredge up the name of Trent Differ proves how weak the argument is. The NFL is a different game than 2000.

In today's game it's ALL about offense and in particular stellar QB play. It's no surprise that five of the last six Super Bowls were won by one of only TWO QB's...Brady and Mahomes, two GOAT's.

The third QB to win a SB the past six yeas was the elite Matt Stafford.

Not surprising is that the only SB in the past six years not won with either Brady or Mahomes (with either of them as MVP), had a WR as MVP. Cooper Cupp.

[Woodman]

The Chiefs defense beat the Ravens for the AFC title.

[EDS]

When you look at the Chiefs and Patriots SB teams, you won’t find a Hall of Fame WR on and of those teams let alone a true #1. So the answer is absolutely.

I am pretty sure the Chiefs won one of their super bowls with Tyreek Hill. Am I not remembering correctly? I think he is in the midst of a HOF caliber career.

Obviously both those teams had HOF caliber TEs and two of the top 10 QBs of all time (maybe top 5).

[kgun12]

I am pretty sure the Chiefs won one of their super bowls with Tyreek Hill. Am I not remembering correctly? I think he is in the midst of a HOF caliber career.

Obviously both those teams had HOF caliber TEs and two of the top 10 QBs of all time (maybe top 5).

Yes, Hill was on the Chiefs for their SB win in 2019 but not the last two. And I’m not quite ready to give Hill HOF honors yet. He’s often injured which could hurt him in the long run.

[sukie]

Yes, Hill was on the Chiefs for their SB win in 2019 but not the last two. And I’m not quite ready to give Hill HOF honors yet. He’s often injured which could hurt him in the long run.
Hill was on a rookie deal as well

[OpIv37]

When you look at the Chiefs and Patriots SB teams, you won’t find a Hall of Fame WR on and of those teams. So the answer is absolutely.

Ummm…. Patriots had Gronk and Hernandez before he decided to play Grand Theft Auto IRL. Chiefs have Kelce.

It’s notoriously difficult for WR’s to make the HOF so it’s disingenuous to say that they never had a HOF WR. Plenty of great WR’s will never make the Hall. And, their main receiving threat was a TE, not a WR, but they still had a HOF receiving threat.

Can a team win a SB without a great WR? Probably. Can a team win a SB without a great offensive weapon behind just the QB? No, and the Bills don’t currently have that.

[Mad Max]

Ummm…. Patriots had Gronk and Hernandez before he decided to play Grand Theft Auto IRL. Chiefs have Kelce.

It’s notoriously difficult for WR’s to make the HOF so it’s disingenuous to say that they never had a HOF WR. Plenty of great WR’s will never make the Hall. And, their main receiving threat was a TE, not a WR, but they still had a HOF receiving threat.

Can a team win a SB without a great WR? Probably. Can a team win a SB without a great offensive weapon behind just the QB? No, and the Bills don’t currently have that.

Brady won THREE Super Bowls without Gronkowski there Opster. He had receivers you wouldn’t know the names of.

We don’t absolutely have to have an all-pro WR.

[kgun12]

Ummm…. Patriots had Gronk and Hernandez before he decided to play Grand Theft Auto IRL. Chiefs have Kelce.

It’s notoriously difficult for WR’s to make the HOF so it’s disingenuous to say that they never had a HOF WR. Plenty of great WR’s will never make the Hall. And, their main receiving threat was a TE, not a WR, but they still had a HOF receiving threat.

Can a team win a SB without a great WR? Probably. Can a team win a SB without a great offensive weapon behind just the QB? No, and the Bills don’t currently have that.

If you weren’t so busy trying to show us how bad things are, you would have seen I acknowledged the TE in post #10!

[OpIv37]

If you weren’t so busy trying to show us how bad things are, you would have seen I acknowledged the TE in post #10!

The point still remains. The great QB’s still need a true offensive threat- the guy that’s gonna make the key play on 3rd and 12, the guy that’s gonna draw triple coverage so the rookie 3rd WR can run wide open down the sideline. The Bills don’t have that guy. You could argue that Diggs was no longer that guy- maybe you’d be right but it’s a moot point. We don’t have Diggs, we don’t have that guy and we aren’t gonna get him with the cap situation, at least not this year.

[kgun12]

The point still remains. The great QB’s still need a true offensive threat- the guy that’s gonna make the key play on 3rd and 12, the guy that’s gonna draw triple coverage so the rookie 3rd WR can run wide open down the sideline. The Bills don’t have that guy. You could argue that Diggs was no longer that guy- maybe you’d be right but it’s a moot point. We don’t have Diggs, we don’t have that guy and we aren’t gonna get him with the cap situation, at least not this year.

NO S**T! But again the thread was can we win a SB without a great #1? I’ll stand but what I said, no. It’s been a moot point, Diggs was non-existent for the most part in the playoffs. Let me ask you this, other than causes issues on this team, what was Diggs contributions to this teams over the last half of last year and the playoffs and can or can we find someone to put up his numbers? I think so!

[OpIv37]

NO S**T! But again the thread was can we win a SB without a great #1? I’ll stand but what I said, no. It’s been a moot point, Diggs was non-existent for the most part in the playoffs. Let me ask you this, other than causes issues on this team, what was Diggs contributions to this teams over the last half of last year and the playoffs and can or can we find someone to put up his numbers? I think so!

I’d like our chances better if we had the cap space and could have brought in a FA. We will need to find the guy to equal Diggs in the draft, and while this is a strong draft for WR’s, no rookie is ever guaranteed.

Honestly, our best shot is that Kincaid can take a big step forward and be that #1 target and cover for a mediocre WR too

[kgun12]

I’d like our chances better if we had the cap space and could have brought in a FA. We will need to find the guy to equal Diggs in the draft, and while this is a strong draft for WR’s, no rookie is ever guaranteed.

Honestly, our best shot is that Kincaid can take a big step forward and be that #1 target and cover for a mediocre WR too

Stefon Diggs playoff stats - 2021 - 33.5 yards/game, 0 TDs. 2022 - 74.5 yards/game, 0 TDs. 2023 - 36.5 yards/ game, 0 TDs

I think that’s easily replaced!

I think you are way too fixated on the cap, the Bills have done a lot with what they had. They extended a few, and got rid of a lot of aging players and a locker room cancer that weren’t contributing as much anymore. They will miss some of the leadership, but it’s time for others to step into that role. That’s sports and life in general. Yes, some of the guys they brought in are older, but the team that you are so bothered by them leaving were players that weren’t helping as much. Again that sports and life in general.
I know you absolutely relish being miserable, but maybe you should wait for the final product before climbing out on to the ledge? Just a thought.

[OpIv37]

Stefon Diggs playoff stats - 2021 - 33.5 yards/game, 0 TDs. 2022 - 74.5 yards/game, 0 TDs. 2023 - 36.5 yards/ game, 0 TDs

I think that’s easily replaced!

I think you are way too fixated on the cap, the Bills have done a lot with what they had. They extended a few, and got rid of a lot of aging players and a locker room cancer that weren’t contributing as much anymore. They will miss some of the leadership, but it’s time for others to step into that role. That’s sports and life in general. Yes, some of the guys they brought in are older, but the team that you are so bothered by them leaving were players that weren’t helping as much. Again that sports and life in general.
I know you absolutely relish being miserable, but maybe you should wait for the final product before climbing out on to the ledge? Just a thought.

Well it's gonna be 5 months before we see the final product, so the only thing we can do is discuss where we think the team is until that time comes.

The reason I keep harping on the cap is because it is preventing us from improving or even maintaining. KC and Cincy (when Burrow is healthy) are ahead of us. We didn't play Baltimore in '23 but I suspect they are ahead of us too. Houston and Jax are improving quickly. Pittsburgh got better. We lost talent- granted, aging and expensive talent that wasn't what it once once- but due to the cap, we were unable to replace it. The big 3 in the AFC are still ahead of us and other teams are rising quickly while we're regressing.

That's why I keep talking about the cap. This year is going to be a setback. You say the players that left weren't helping as much, but we have no one equal or better and can't get anyone cuz of the cap.

[kgun12]

Well it's gonna be 5 months before we see the final product, so the only thing we can do is discuss where we think the team is until that time comes.

The reason I keep harping on the cap is because it is preventing us from improving or even maintaining. KC and Cincy (when Burrow is healthy) are ahead of us. We didn't play Baltimore in '23 but I suspect they are ahead of us too. Houston and Jax are improving quickly. Pittsburgh got better. We lost talent- granted, aging and expensive talent that wasn't what it once once- but due to the cap, we were unable to replace it. The big 3 in the AFC are still ahead of us and other teams are rising quickly while we're regressing.

That's why I keep talking about the cap. This year is going to be a setback. You say the players that left weren't helping as much, but we have no one equal or better and can't get anyone cuz of the cap.

Yeah, the sky is falling, we suck, but 5months is a long times and a lot of good things can happen! Here's a question for you, do you remember when the Bills sign Lofton? September 27, 1989. The point is, there a lot of players out there that can still help this team!

You've been predicting, seems like (hoping) this forever, but they always seem to have a pretty good season. Yes, we all want a SB and I hope I see one in my life time. With Josh there's always hope. However, like I've said a few time, I have taken all the emotion out of sports. I realized I have absolutely no control about who the draft, sign, cut, gameplan or play calling. So I've taken the Bill Murray from Meatballs approach..."It Just Doesn't Matter! Seriouly, I love this time of year and the more moves the Bills make the more I enjoy it. Once the games start, my interst goes way down.
"

[OpIv37]

Yeah, the sky is falling, we suck, but 5months is a long times and a lot of good things can happen! Here's a question for you, do you remember when the Bills sign Lofton? September 27, 1989. The point is, there a lot of players out there that can still help this team!

You've been predicting, seems like (hoping) this forever, but they always seem to have a pretty good season. Yes, we all want a SB and I hope I see one in my life time. With Josh there's always hope. However, like I've said a few time, I have taken all the emotion out of sports. I realized I have absolutely no control about who the draft, sign, cut, gameplan or play calling. So I've taken the Bill Murray from Meatballs approach..."It Just Doesn't Matter! Seriouly, I love this time of year and the more moves the Bills make the more I enjoy it. Once the games start, my interst goes way down.
"

The problem with getting players comes right back to the cap. There was no cap in 1989. It doesn’t matter who comes available. We won’t be able to sign them.

[kgun12]

The problem with getting players comes right back to the cap. There was no cap in 1989. It doesn’t matter who comes available. We won’t be able to sign them.

The Bills have done a pretty good job so far of keeping the players they wanted and signing others without “cap money!” Besides what part of White’s $10 million June 1 payday don’t you understand? The point of bringing up Lofton is with the June money if we don’t get a top 5 WR in the draft we will the money to make a trade or sign a James Lofton type. You really have trouble seeing the forest through the trees don’t you?

[Mad Max]

The Bills have done a pretty good job so far of keeping the players they wanted and signing others without “cap money!” Besides what part of White’s $10 million June 1 payday don’t you understand? The point of bringing up Lofton is with the June money if we don’t get a top 5 WR in the draft we will the money to make a trade or sign a James Lofton type. You really have trouble seeing the forest through the trees don’t you?

“What Forest?”
-OpI

[kgun12]

“What Forest?”
-OpI

I laughed out loud at this! :lmao:

[Mad Max]

I laughed out loud at this! :lmao:

OpI is entertaining. I usually don’t like people who are constantly eeyoring but he’s an exception, the man never breaks from character. That’s dedication.

I do miss his eeyore avatar though. It was the perfect fit. You must have lost a bet to use that avatar right OpI? And that’s why when I called you out last season to make an avatar bet you ran and hid. You didn’t want me sticking you with the Trojan helmet lol.

[OpIv37]

The Bills have done a pretty good job so far of keeping the players they wanted and signing others without “cap money!” Besides what part of White’s $10 million June 1 payday don’t you understand? The point of bringing up Lofton is with the June money if we don’t get a top 5 WR in the draft we will the money to make a trade or sign a James Lofton type. You really have trouble seeing the forest through the trees don’t you?

$10 million isn’t going to replace Diggs, Davis, Morse, White, Poyer and Hyde. There is simply no way to go into next season with talent that is equal to or better than last season, and we already know last season’s team was behind several others in the AFC in terms of talent.

[kgun12]

$10 million isn’t going to replace Diggs, Davis, Morse, White, Poyer and Hyde. There is simply no way to go into next season with talent that is equal to or better than last season, and we already know last season’s team was behind several others in the AFC in terms of talent.

Come on man, do you really believe this of are you just playing the angry poster? What you understand, they already replace everyone but Diggs and I’m not sure it’s going to be hard to replace his production from the last half of the season and playoffs. White hasn’t really played the last couple years, Poyer and Hyde slowed down noticeably. We will miss David’s blocking but his receiving number are also easily replaced. They will get a DT, DE, an O-lineman, and a WR in this draft.

[OpIv37]

Come on man, do you really believe this of are you just playing the angry poster? What you understand, they already replace everyone but Diggs and I’m not sure it’s going to be hard to replace his production from the last half of the season and playoffs. White hasn’t really played the last couple years, Poyer and Hyde slowed down noticeably. We will miss David’s blocking but his receiving number are also easily replaced. They will get a DT, DE, an O-lineman, and a WR in this draft.
You’re insane if you believe they already replaced everyone but Diggs. And all the teams that are ahead of us in talent get to draft to fill their holes too. I don’t know why everyone refuses to acknowledge that reality.

[kgun12]

You’re insane if you believe they already replaced everyone but Diggs. And all the teams that are ahead of us in talent get to draft to fill their holes too. I don’t know why everyone refuses to acknowledge that reality.

Nope, you just live in a dark place. So tell me who isn’t an upgrade to all of the elders the Bills released?

Yes, I fully expect them to draft a S, CB, and both lines, but it was time for the old guys to go.

[OpIv37]

Nope, you just live in a dark place. So tell me who isn’t an upgrade to all of the elders the Bills released?

Yes, I fully expect them to draft a S, CB, and both lines, but it was time for the old guys to go.
So far, we’ve only replaced them with their backups. If their backups were better, they should have been on the field last year.

And that’s a LOT of holes to fill in one draft.

[sukie]

Hard to play a backup when you have an overpriced veteran starter living off reputation. Happens in nearly all team sports.

[Chet]

Lots of wishful thinking itt.

Remember, these are the Buffalo Bills. One step forward, two steps back

[OpIv37]

Hard to play a backup when you have an overpriced veteran starter living off reputation. Happens in nearly all team sports.

So the assumption is that we had not one, not two, but SIX backups who were better than the starters, sitting on the bench due to the reputation of the starters? If that's the case, every coach should be fired.

[Forward_Lateral]

Yes, you can.

It's been done many times in the last 20 years.

[sukie]

So the assumption is that we had not one, not two, but SIX backups who were better than the starters, sitting on the bench due to the reputation of the starters? If that's the case, every coach should be fired.
Tre. No longer a starter. Didn’t play basically 2 seasons
Hyde No longer a starter. Couldn’t stay on field
Gabe Davis. Starter ? He sucks
Morse. His replacement… we shall see. His best years were behind him.

are you weeping for Poyer?

- - - Updated - - -

Ya know how one becomes an all pro starter? One needs to start.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Hard to play a backup when you have an overpriced veteran starter living off reputation. Happens in nearly all team sports.
agreed. case in point.

terell bernard behind tremaine edmunds.

[Mad Max]

agreed. case in point.

terell bernard behind tremaine edmunds.

You’re baits gonna catch a big old guppy

[Forward_Lateral]

Tre. No longer a starter. Didn’t play basically 2 seasons
Hyde No longer a starter. Couldn’t stay on field
Gabe Davis. Starter ? He sucks
Morse. His replacement… we shall see. His best years were behind him.

are you weeping for Poyer?

- - - Updated - - -

Ya know how one becomes an all pro starter? One needs to start.
Exactly.

The only position of any concern right now besides WR is Safety. Rapp could easily be the next Poyer or Hyde (He could also suck, but you get the point).

I don't know how anyone who followed the team last year can honestly be upset about any of the players lost this offseason.

If you want to be upset that they didn't wait until after the draft to trade Diggs, I can understand that.

Other than that, like Sukie said, all the guys that left are either on the downslope of their career, or got highly over paid by another team, or both.

[sukie]

For Milanos money… who wants Edmunds back? I kinda like our backup LBs that panned out.

[OpIv37]

For Milanos money… who wants Edmunds back? I kinda like our backup LBs that panned out.
And you think that's just going to keep panning out with everyone we lost? That every backup we have is better than an all pro starter? Ok...

[OpIv37]

Exactly.

The only position of any concern right now besides WR is Safety. Rapp could easily be the next Poyer or Hyde (He could also suck, but you get the point).

I don't know how anyone who followed the team last year can honestly be upset about any of the players lost this offseason.

If you want to be upset that they didn't wait until after the draft to trade Diggs, I can understand that.

Other than that, like Sukie said, all the guys that left are either on the downslope of their career, or got highly over paid by another team, or both.

EVERYONE should be upset, not so much that we lost guys but that we're trying to replace ALL of them with completely unproven backups. But hey, it worked ONCE with Edmunds, so no need to be concerned, right?

It's one thing to get rid of players who are clearly declining, but it's another thing to just expect all their inexperienced backups to come in and play at the same level.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

You’re baits gonna catch a big old guppy

I’m honestly not trying to bait

this was the first example I had

[Mad Max]

I’m honestly not trying to bait

this was the first example I had

I know you weren’t but the guppy can’t resist that topic as chum usually.

[Forward_Lateral]

EVERYONE should be upset, not so much that we lost guys but that we're trying to replace ALL of them with completely unproven backups. But hey, it worked ONCE with Edmunds, so no need to be concerned, right?

It's one thing to get rid of players who are clearly declining, but it's another thing to just expect all their inexperienced backups to come in and play at the same level.

Who have they replaced with inexperienced backups??

[Ginger Vitis]

OPIV constantly makes references to the salary cap and brings up the salary cap endlessly.. but he doesn't know the basic s of how nfl salary caps work lol

[kgun12]

EVERYONE should be upset, not so much that we lost guys but that we're trying to replace ALL of them with completely unproven backups. But hey, it worked ONCE with Edmunds, so no need to be concerned, right?

It's one thing to get rid of players who are clearly declining, but it's another thing to just expect all their inexperienced backups to come in and play at the same level.

Almost nobody and I mean almost nobody on this board was excited when the Bills brought in Hyde and Poyer. I honk that’s where my optimism comes from. I think Beans has done a pretty good job with these accusations. Not all by most and there probably isn’t one person on this board that is surprised by your suicidal reaction to the signings. You would be negative no matter who they signed.

[sukie]

And you think that's just going to keep panning out with everyone we lost? That every backup we have is better than an all pro starter? Ok...
Gabe sucked hard to be worse
Diggs obviously was an issue

Hyde and Tre didn’t play much last two years

morse isn’t nearly the Morse of old.

so who else?

[OpIv37]

Who have they replaced with inexperienced backups??

All of them. They literally added nobody at the positions we lost.

[OpIv37]

Gabe sucked hard to be worse
Diggs obviously was an issue

Hyde and Tre didn’t play much last two years

morse isn’t nearly the Morse of old.

so who else?

See, you’re confusing two different issues. No, Morse was not the Morse of old. But, we also don’t have anyone on the roster who can play C equal to or better than what Morse did last year. Same for Diggs and Davis. Maybe Shakir but he can’t replace both.

[sukie]

Again you said 6 lost . Who? Dont mention my list. Who is the loss that is not replaced. You have zero idea how the kid will play at center where he has played before so shown… who was the big loss?

Poyer?

Diggs and his lack of big game production?

I know you aren’t opening about the Gabe Davis subtraction.


where is the massive insurmountable loss? It isn’t at center.

it isn’t at CB.

[OpIv37]

Again you said 6 lost . Who? Dont mention my list. Who is the loss that is not replaced. You have zero idea how the kid will play at center where he has played before so shown… who was the big loss?

Poyer?

Diggs and his lack of big game production?

I know you aren’t opening about the Gabe Davis subtraction.


where is the massive insurmountable loss? It isn’t at center.

it isn’t at CB.

No one has any idea how the kids will play. We lost Diggs, Davis, Poyer, White, Hyde and Morse. Expecting the kids to step up and play well enough to replace all of that…. Just insanity. Yes, they were all past their prime but it’s still a talent deficit. We have no one proven to be equal or better.

It’s drought era thinking. During the drought, the team was actually good at not overpaying guys and getting rid of aging vets. The mistake that they consistently made was expecting to replace them with “next man up!” That’s what’s happening here.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

No one has any idea how the kids will play. We lost Diggs, Davis, Poyer, White, Hyde and Morse. Expecting the kids to step up and play well enough to replace all of that…. Just insanity. Yes, they were all past their prime but it’s still a talent deficit. We have no one proven to be equal or better.

It’s drought era thinking. During the drought, the team was actually good at not overpaying guys and getting rid of aging vets. The mistake that they consistently made was expecting to replace them with “next man up!” That’s what’s happening here.

Jesus dude, you’re incorrigible

Mike Edwards 2 time Super Bowl champ (replacing Hyde/poyer) isn’t a ‘kid’
Taylor rapp isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing Hyde/poyer)
Curtis Samuel isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing one of the wr)
Tre whites replacement (Douglas / benford) aren’t kids

I’ll give you McGovern as we don’t know what we are getting

and the two wr we need in the draft are kids

but to act like we are just winging it with replacements is just false

[Mad Max]

Jesus dude, you’re incorrigible

Mike Edwards 2 time Super Bowl champ (replacing Hyde/poyer) isn’t a ‘kid’
Taylor rapp isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing Hyde/poyer)
Curtis Samuel isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing one of the wr)
Tre whites replacement (Douglas / benford) aren’t kids

I’ll give you McGovern as we don’t know what we are getting

and the two wr we need in the draft are kids

but to act like we are just winging it with replacements is just false
Don’t confuse Opie with facts.

[OpIv37]

Jesus dude, you’re incorrigible

Mike Edwards 2 time Super Bowl champ (replacing Hyde/poyer) isn’t a ‘kid’
Taylor rapp isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing Hyde/poyer)
Curtis Samuel isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing one of the wr)
Tre whites replacement (Douglas / benford) aren’t kids

I’ll give you McGovern as we don’t know what we are getting

and the two wr we need in the draft are kids

but to act like we are just winging it with replacements is just false

Rapp was the backup. Douglas was brought in to complement White, not replace him, but I’ll give you that Benford spent most of the season playing for White anyway. Samuel not being a kid doesn’t mean he’s good enough to replace Diggs. You already said McGovern is a question mark. I’ll admit I don’t know much about Edwards but one can’t replace two.

[sukie]

Rapp back used the Bills to a division title… crushing Fin nation.

[sukie]

No one has any idea how the kids will play. We lost Diggs, Davis, Poyer, White, Hyde and Morse. Expecting the kids to step up and play well enough to replace all of that…. Just insanity. Yes, they were all past their prime but it’s still a talent deficit. We have no one proven to be equal or better.

It’s drought era thinking. During the drought, the team was actually good at not overpaying guys and getting rid of aging vets. The mistake that they consistently made was expecting to replace them with “next man up!” That’s what’s happening here.

Once again… read slowly.

Diggs. Okay a replacement is needed as a 1. He really wasn’t all that irreplaceable down the home stretch though

Tre and Hyde WERE replaced already the last 2 years. When they came back briefly… they were kinda the backups playing spot duty.

Milano will be back so LB is improved.

Poyer played un poyer-like. Easy replaced talent at its current level.

morse McGovern… meh probably will be seen as close to a wash if not an improvement. Morse is old and can’t remember where he left his keys some days,

so let’s talk about Gabe Davis… what about his stellar play cannot be replaced ?

it seems to me that you are thinking the Bills are suddenly missing the Tre, Poyer, Hyde and Morse of 2021. And Gabe from that KC game.

hell I’d rather Shakir get the Davis Balls . He will catch them at least.

[Forward_Lateral]

All of them. They literally added nobody at the positions we lost.
They added Curtis Samuel and lost Gabe. No loss

Corner they lost Tre, who really hadn't contributed in the last 2 seasons, and they got Douglas last year, who was a major upgrade.

The only position I will agree with you on safety, but Poyer and Hyde were gonzo regardless. There's STILL THE DRAFT.

They haven't replaced Diggs yet, so what's the point of complaining about it? They can't be any worse without him than they were the 2nd half of last season, when they basically won without him anyways.

[Forward_Lateral]

Rapp was the backup. Douglas was brought in to complement White, not replace him, but I’ll give you that Benford spent most of the season playing for White anyway. Samuel not being a kid doesn’t mean he’s good enough to replace Diggs. You already said McGovern is a question mark. I’ll admit I don’t know much about Edwards but one can’t replace two.

Rapp started 33 games in a row for the Rams before signing with Buffalo. He was a backup last year, behind Poyer and Hyde, but he's not a career backup with no experience like you are making him out to be.

[OpIv37]

Rapp started 33 games in a row for the Rams before signing with Buffalo. He was a backup last year, behind Poyer and Hyde, but he's not a career backup with no experience like you are making him out to be.

There’s a reason Rapp was the backup.

[sukie]

Yes Poyer and Hyde had a reputation of being good. Doesn’t mean they were anymore.

[Woodman]

Yes Poyer and Hyde had a reputation of being good. Doesn’t mean they were anymore.

Those days have passed.

[Woodman]

You would be negative no matter who they signed.
This captures it.

[Woodman]

“What Forrest?”
-OpI

Gregg.

So are we moving up?

[kgun12]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Op CAN’T be this ignorant (lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.) He has to be just playing devils advocate! He thrives on being negative, I won’t be baited by him about this anymore.

[OpIv37]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Op CAN’T be this ignorant (lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.) He has to be just playing devils advocate! He thrives on being negative, I won’t be baited by him about this anymore.

Either that, or we lost talent and everyone is jumping through hoops to pretend that we didn’t cuz it’s easier to blame Op for being negative than face the reality that 2024 will be a setback.

[Woodman]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Op CAN’T be this ignorant (lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.) He has to be just playing devils advocate! He thrives on being negative, I won’t be baited by him about this anymore.

Show me a positive upbeat post and i'll give you a nickel.

[Forward_Lateral]

There’s a reason Rapp was the backup.
Because they had Poyer and Hyde.

[Woodman]

Because they had Poyer and Hyde.
exactly it's not rocket science.

[kgun12]

Either that, or we lost talent and everyone is jumping through hoops to pretend that we didn’t cuz it’s easier to blame Op for being negative than face the reality that 2024 will be a setback.

Nope you’ve been doing this stick for too long for me not to think it’s an act. Why would anybody subject themselves to that much pain for that long.

[OpIv37]

Because they had Poyer and Hyde.

:facepalm:

You claim Rapp is going to replace one of them. But Rapp was on the bench behind them. How do you not see the problem here?

[Forward_Lateral]

:facepalm:

You claim Rapp is going to replace one of them. But Rapp was on the bench behind them. How do you not see the problem here?
Do you really think McDermott was going to bench Poyer or Hyde?

Also, did you not notice Rapp was on the field a lot last season, at safety when they moved Poyer down to more of a LB role?

[OpIv37]

Do you really think McDermott was going to bench Poyer or Hyde?

If they’re not the best players, and he’s not benching them, that’s a huge problem.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

If they’re not the best players, and he’s not benching them, that’s a huge problem.

now THIS i completely agree with.

[Forward_Lateral]

If they’re not the best players, and he’s not benching them, that’s a huge problem.

Again,

Do you really think McDermott would've benched Hyde or Poyer?

[sukie]

:facepalm:

You claim Rapp is going to replace one of them. But Rapp was on the bench behind them. How do you not see the problem here?

Because Poyer was a highly respected Safety and on a big contract. Regardless of his current skill set, he was the starter.
I believe Terrell Bernard was a better LB than Edmunds but if Edmunds was still on the team we would know about Bernard expect for spot duty.

i don’t think Rapp played Hyde’s safety roll BUT Hyde barely made the field, is still available and THAT speaks volumes.

[Forward_Lateral]

Also, if your only argument is Rapp, then your point is idiotic anyways.

They got rid of 2 aging safeties, re-signed a guy they obviously feel can do the job at one of the spots, and likely will draft one or two as well.

You said "They replaced several positions with backups".

No, they did not.

D-line-- All starters returning, plus Von Miller back to 100% (hopefully)

LBs--- All starters returning

Corners--All starters returning

O-line--All starters returning except LG

RB-- All starters returning

QB---All starters returning


TE--All starters returning

WR--No starters returning, unless you count Shakir, who I guess started some in the slot. Samuel replaces Davis, so really Diggs is gone, and he did f-all anyways when it mattered.


What could you possibly be referring to, besides losing Diggs and 2 old ass safeties, one of which is probably going to retire anyways.

- - - Updated - - -


Because Poyer was a highly respected Safety and on a big contract. Regardless of his current skill set, he was the starter.
I believe Terrell Bernard was a better LB than Edmunds but if Edmunds was still on the team we would know about Bernard expect for spot duty.

i don’t think Rapp played Hyde’s safety roll BUT Hyde barely made the field, is still available and THAT speaks volumes.
DING DING DING

[OpIv37]

Again,

Do you really think McDermott would've benched Hyde or Poyer?

If they weren’t playing as well as the backup, he absolutely should have benched them. If he didn’t, it’s a problem.

Again, this wreaks of just making excuses for why it’s acceptable to replace starters with their backups instead of bringing in more talent.

[OpIv37]

Because Poyer was a highly respected Safety and on a big contract. Regardless of his current skill set, he was the starter.
I believe Terrell Bernard was a better LB than Edmunds but if Edmunds was still on the team we would know about Bernard expect for spot duty.

i don’t think Rapp played Hyde’s safety roll BUT Hyde barely made the field, is still available and THAT speaks volumes.
I mean, if the coach is putting players on the field based on contracts and not based on who’s actually playing the best, we have much bigger problems than I thought.

[sukie]

That happens all the time. Careers end new ones blossom. Players often play one too many seasons.

the drop off can be equal to or below the able bodied back up.

no way of knowing Bernard would play that well when Edmunds was in there. You can’t gauge a player on practice alone.

packers didn’t know how good Love was until Rodgers left. They didn’t know how good Rodgers was until Favre left.

[notacon]

All of them. They literally added nobody at the positions we lost.

Wrong, as usual.

Are you even awake when you write crap like this????

[OpIv37]

Wrong, as usual.

Are you even awake when you write crap like this????
Go ahead and write a 9 paragraph post to mind **** yourself into thinking we didn’t lose talent when we obviously did.

[OpIv37]

That happens all the time. Careers end new ones blossom. Players often play one too many seasons.

the drop off can be equal to or below the able bodied back up.

no way of knowing Bernard would play that well when Edmunds was in there. You can’t gauge a player on practice alone.

packers didn’t know how good Love was until Rodgers left. They didn’t know how good Rodgers was until Favre left.

QB’s are a completely different animal.

And if Poyer is on such obvious decline, and we have someone like Rapp on the bench behind him, then it’s on the coaches to make the switch.

And, the argument here is that Rapp has experience, but you just used two guys who had 0 experience as examples. Benching a S for another experienced S isn’t the same thing at all as benching a starting QB for one with no experience.

And, we can’t go into the season replacing guys with backups cuz “hey, you never really know til they play, right?” Again, that’s drought-era thinking.

[Mad Max]

QB’s are a completely different animal.

And if Poyer is on such obvious decline, and we have someone like Rapp on the bench behind him, then it’s on the coaches to make the switch.

And, the argument here is that Rapp has experience, but you just used two guys who had 0 experience as examples. Benching a S for another experienced S isn’t the same thing at all as benching a starting QB for one with no experience.

And, we can’t go into the season replacing guys with backups cuz “hey, you never really know til they play, right?” Again, that’s drought-era thinking.
Ok Op time for early predictions to determine the amount of your cynicism.

over or under 9 wins in your opinion for 2024?

[notacon]

Jesus dude, you’re incorrigible

Mike Edwards 2 time Super Bowl champ (replacing Hyde/poyer) isn’t a ‘kid’
Taylor rapp isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing Hyde/poyer)
Curtis Samuel isn’t a ‘kid’ (replacing one of the wr)
Tre whites replacement (Douglas / benford) aren’t kids

I’ll give you McGovern as we don’t know what we are getting

and the two wr we need in the draft are kids

but to act like we are just winging it with replacements is just false

+1

Sure looks like Opi is taking the fantasy football mindset.

Of course in the real world it does not work that way. Players do NOT perform in a vacuum, like they do in fantasy football (full disclosure...I hate fantasy football...it's such bullcrap).

In a TEAM sport like NFL football, how the different pieces mesh together, and are suitable for an offensive and defensive scheme is much more critical than the silly......"No one has any idea how the kids will play. We lost Diggs, Davis, Poyer, White, Hyde and Morse. Expecting the kids to step up and play well enough to replace all of that…. Just insanity. Yes, they were all past their prime but it’s still a talent deficit. We have no one proven to be equal or better."

Of course, Opi does not even listen to himself. The most credible thing his whinefest expressed was "No one has any idea how the kids will play."

In Opi's fantasy football world, it's just assumed that the "kids" will not be as good as the departed, no matter if some of them were washed up has-beens. In Opi's fantasy world no young player ever gets better...no backup can replace a starter and do a better job. How lame!!

But, we DO know how the departed DID perform, especially in the most critical games.

Diggs - SUCKED in the playoffs, like he has in every single playoff loss the Bills have had his four years on the team. Once the offensive scheme changed after Brady took over, he was invisible. The Bills literally won MORE GAMES (7 including playoffs) than they did before Diggs was de-emphasized (5 up to the Denver debacle). Diggs had almost nothing to do with the Bills fantasit 6-1 finish (which Opi said would NEVER happen) . Diggs was TERRIBLE in the KC loss....an albatross.

Davis - His 55% catch % was the worst of any pass catcher on the team. MUCH less than Shakir's 86.6% and Kincaid's 80.2%. His route running was terrible. He could hardly ever get any separation. He was a dismally bad #2 WR last year. He did not play in either of the playoff games and he was not missed.

Poyer - damaged goods. He's done. No wonder the best FA offer he could get was barley above vet min.

White - damaged goods. Only played in 10 games the past two years. He was below average in at least half of those.

Hyde - more damaged goods. No one wants him.

Morse - good player on the downside of his career. So many concussions. McGovern will be just fine as his replacement. The Bills will not notice he's gone.

Opi's pearl clutching makes little sense in the real world. The NFL is a constant churn of players.

The offensive core is strong. Curtis is a great addition. Cook is coming into his own. Shakir is ready to become a star. Kincaid is poised to become a superstar. Josh Allen already is a superstar.

The Bills are well positioned to draft one or two good WR's. I suspect that one of this years WR draft choices will be starting on day one and do a very good job.

By mid-season we will probably all be saying that we are much better off without any of those departed players. In any event, it's best to wait and see what this team is going to be before declaring them dead and digging their grave.

How ****ing pathetic it is to do that....and Opi does it every ****ing year.

[sukie]

QB’s are a completely different animal.

And if Poyer is on such obvious decline, and we have someone like Rapp on the bench behind him, then it’s on the coaches to make the switch.

And, the argument here is that Rapp has experience, but you just used two guys who had 0 experience as examples. Benching a S for another experienced S isn’t the same thing at all as benching a starting QB for one with no experience.

And, we can’t go into the season replacing guys with backups cuz “hey, you never really know til they play, right?” Again, that’s drought-era thinking.
Let me play devils advocate. Perhaps there was decline but not detrimental to put a guy in that you have only seen in practice.

perhaos the decline in practice should them to be equals… at least in practice.

players get old much like this conversation. I’d like to bench this Opiv since there is noticeable decline in his argument this time.

[OpIv37]

Let me play devils advocate. Perhaps there was decline but not detrimental to put a guy in that you have only seen in practice.

perhaos the decline in practice should them to be equals… at least in practice.

players get old much like this conversation. I’d like to bench this Opiv since there is noticeable decline in his argument this time.

But it’s somehow ok to make the guy you’ve only seen in practice the starter for next season….gimme a ****ing break.

[OpIv37]

+1

Sure looks like Opi is taking the fantasy football mindset.

Of course in the real world it does not work that way. Players do NOT perform in a vacuum, like they do in fantasy football (full disclosure...I hate fantasy football...it's such bullcrap).

In a TEAM sport like NFL football, how the different pieces mesh together, and are suitable for an offensive and defensive scheme is much more critical than the silly......"No one has any idea how the kids will play. We lost Diggs, Davis, Poyer, White, Hyde and Morse. Expecting the kids to step up and play well enough to replace all of that…. Just insanity. Yes, they were all past their prime but it’s still a talent deficit. We have no one proven to be equal or better."

Of course, Opi does not even listen to himself. The most credible thing his whinefest expressed was "No one has any idea how the kids will play."

In Opi's fantasy football world, it's just assumed that the "kids" will not be as good as the departed, no matter if some of them were washed up has-beens. In Opi's fantasy world no young player ever gets better...no backup can replace a starter and do a better job. How lame!!

But, we DO know how the departed DID perform, especially in the most critical games.

Diggs - SUCKED in the playoffs, like he has in every single playoff loss the Bills have had his four years on the team. Once the offensive scheme changed after Brady took over, he was invisible. The Bills literally won MORE GAMES (7 including playoffs) than they did before Diggs was de-emphasized (5 up to the Denver debacle). Diggs had almost nothing to do with the Bills fantasit 6-1 finish (which Opi said would NEVER happen) . Diggs was TERRIBLE in the KC loss....an albatross.

Davis - His 55% catch % was the worst of any pass catcher on the team. MUCH less than Shakir's 86.6% and Kincaid's 80.2%. His route running was terrible. He could hardly ever get any separation. He was a dismally bad #2 WR last year. He did not play in either of the playoff games and he was not missed.

Poyer - damaged goods. He's done. No wonder the best FA offer he could get was barley above vet min.

White - damaged goods. Only played in 10 games the past two years. He was below average in at least half of those.

Hyde - more damaged goods. No one wants him.

Morse - good player on the downside of his career. So many concussions. McGovern will be just fine as his replacement. The Bills will not notice he's gone.

Opi's pearl clutching makes little sense in the real world. The NFL is a constant churn of players.

The offensive core is strong. Curtis is a great addition. Cook is coming into his own. Shakir is ready to become a star. Kincaid is poised to become a superstar. Josh Allen already is a superstar.

The Bills are well positioned to draft one or two good WR's. I suspect that one of this years WR draft choices will be starting on day one and do a very good job.

By mid-season we will probably all be saying that we are much better off without any of those departed players. In any event, it's best to wait and see what this team is going to be before declaring them dead and digging their grave.

How ****ing pathetic it is to do that....and Opi does it every ****ing year.

And through all of this you still failed to show how we have anyone equal or better to the guys we lost.

[OpIv37]

Ok Op time for early predictions to determine the amount of your cynicism.

over or under 9 wins in your opinion for 2024?

It’s gonna be close. Our division is such ****, but then again this coaching staff is really good at blowing 2 games a year to inferior competition. This is preliminary so I may change it when we have the full schedule, but I’m thinking 9-10 wins, which will be enough to win the East, then whoever doesn’t win the North will slaughter us in the first round.

[Mad Max]

It’s gonna be close. Our division is such ****, but then again this coaching staff is really good at blowing 2 games a year to inferior competition. This is preliminary so I may change it when we have the full schedule, but I’m thinking 9-10 wins, which will be enough to win the East, then whoever doesn’t win the North will slaughter us in the first round.
So you’re taking the over at 10 wins and a playoff appearance with a first round exit.

Not ideal obviously but doesn’t seem to jibe with your “we’re doomed” thesis. By definition ten win teams cannot be as bereft of talent as you’re claiming we now are.

[sukie]

And through all of this you still failed to show how we have anyone equal or better to the guys we lost.

To be clear “equal to or better than” as in how the players performed last season…correct?

[OpIv37]

So you’re taking the over at 10 wins and a playoff appearance with a first round exit.

Not ideal obviously but doesn’t seem to jibe with your “we’re doomed” thesis. By definition ten win teams cannot be as bereft of talent as you’re claiming we now are.

We were supposedly Super Bowl contenders last year. We’re going from that to only making the playoffs by lucking into a weak division.

[sukie]

So you’re taking the over at 10 wins and a playoff appearance with a first round exit.

Not ideal obviously but doesn’t seem to jibe with your “we’re doomed” thesis. By definition ten win teams cannot be as bereft of talent as you’re claiming we now are.
So with all this devastation in terms of talent purge… OpI. Had then losing 1-2 games more than last season?

all this blather over 1-2 games?

[Mad Max]

We were supposedly Super Bowl contenders last year. We’re going from that to only making the playoffs by lucking into a weak division.
And the obligatory goal post movement.

Talent bereft teams by definition don’t make the playoffs…according to your own prediction we make the playoffs, ergo we are not talent bereft.

[OpIv37]

And the obligatory goal post movement.

Talent bereft teams by definition don’t make the playoffs…according to your own prediction we make the playoffs, ergo we are not talent bereft.

Wow, that's putting a hell of a lot of spin on what I said.

We weren't good enough to beat the Chiefs or the Bengals last year. We lost talent. We definitely won't be good enough to beat them this year.

That's what I said. I never said we were completely "talent bereft."

- - - Updated - - -


So with all this devastation in terms of talent purge… OpI. Had then losing 1-2 games more than last season?

all this blather over 1-2 games?

Once again: we weren't good enough to beat the Bengals or Chiefs last year. We lost talent, so we definitely won't be able to beat them this year.

[sukie]

To be clear “equal to or better than” as in how the players performed last season…correct?
Opiv…

[OpIv37]

Opiv…

I don't know what is so confusing to you about this. We saw how the guys we lost played last year. If we are going to equal last year's performance, we need players who are equal or better to what we lost, meaning they've proven ON THE FIELD that they can at least equal the production of the players who are no longer here. It's not complicated.

[sukie]

Doesn’t apply to Hyde or White. They didn’t play. A full season of anyone could equal what we got statistically out of last season’s Poyer, Morse can easily be bettered just buy a younger guy taking his snaps. The quality of play by David is better without a replacement. His catch ratio was horrid.

Diggs put up yardage but not meaningful catches in the stretch.

who else?

milano back. Kincaid year 2 , Samuel’s speed, all positive upturns.

year 2 of starting for Benford and Bernard.

second season for Cyrus . Experience is awesome.

draft class coming in.

im seeing 11 wins minimum without a schedule.

[Mad Max]

Doesn’t apply to Hyde or White. They didn’t play. A full season of anyone could equal what we got statistically out of last season’s Poyer, Morse can easily be bettered just buy a younger guy taking his snaps. The quality of play by David is better without a replacement. His catch ratio was horrid.

Diggs put up yardage but not meaningful catches in the stretch.

who else?

milano back. Kincaid year 2 , Samuel’s speed, all positive upturns.

year 2 of starting for Benford and Bernard.

second season for Cyrus . Experience is awesome.

draft class coming in.

im seeing 11 wins minimum without a schedule.
Stop with this reasoning mumbo jumbo. We are going to suck and you know it.

[sukie]

Stop with this reasoning mumbo jumbo. We are going to suck and you know it.
I know. 2-14. Bright side is the Sabres will look GOOD by comparison.

[OpIv37]

Doesn’t apply to Hyde or White. They didn’t play. A full season of anyone could equal what we got statistically out of last season’s Poyer, Morse can easily be bettered just buy a younger guy taking his snaps. The quality of play by David is better without a replacement. His catch ratio was horrid.

Diggs put up yardage but not meaningful catches in the stretch.

who else?

milano back. Kincaid year 2 , Samuel’s speed, all positive upturns.

year 2 of starting for Benford and Bernard.

second season for Cyrus . Experience is awesome.

draft class coming in.

im seeing 11 wins minimum without a schedule.
Milano back is assumed. He could get injured again.

Kincaid improvement is assumed. Some guys make jumps in year 2, some guys don’t. It’s also drought era thinking. “We don’t need to add talent- the guys we have will just get better with experience!”

11 wins is not gonna happen with this schedule.

[Mad Max]

Milano back is assumed. He could get injured again.

Kincaid improvement is assumed. Some guys make jumps in year 2, some guys don’t. It’s also drought era thinking. “We don’t need to add talent- the guys we have will just get better with experience!”

11 wins is not gonna happen with this schedule.
Where did you read the “we don’t need to add talent” bit?

I must have missed it.
Everyone knows we do need to add talent. That’s kind of why they hold this draft thingy every year.

The only difference between eeyores like you and the rest of us is we don’t see the shelves as they are right now as barren.

[OpIv37]

Where did you read the “we don’t need to add talent” bit?

I must have missed it.
Everyone knows we do need to add talent. That’s kind of why they hold this draft thingy every year.

The only difference between eeyores like you and the rest of us is we don’t see the shelves as they are right now as barren.
EVERYONE gets to add talent through the draft, not just us. I don’t know why it almost 25 years into BZ and no one gets that yet.

[Mad Max]

EVERYONE gets to add talent through the draft, not just us. I don’t know why it almost 25 years into BZ and no one gets that yet.

And your point?

The teams with less holes will draft more for depth and future starters whereas teams with more holes will plug their holes immediately with their draft picks.
Either way the field is leveled.

[OpIv37]

And your point?

The teams with less holes will draft more for depth and future starters whereas teams with more holes will plug their holes immediately with their draft picks.
Either way the field is leveled.
No, the field isn’t leveled. There are teams that had more talent than us in 2023. We lost talent after 2023, they didn’t. We get to add talent through the draft, so do they. End result: the talent gap still exists.

It’s not complicated.

[Mad Max]

No, the field isn’t leveled. There are teams that had more talent than us in 2023. We lost talent after 2023, they didn’t. We get to add talent through the draft, so do they. End result: the talent gap still exists.

It’s not complicated.
Ok quick get ready to run and hide.

I propose another avatar bet.

Im calling 11 wins minimum. You obviously don’t think we hit that number put your money where your mouth is.

The avatar gets changed as soon as the math aligns we don’t need to wait until seasons end.

[sukie]

Milano back is assumed. He could get injured again.

Kincaid improvement is assumed. Some guys make jumps in year 2, some guys don’t. It’s also drought era thinking. “We don’t need to add talent- the guys we have will just get better with experience!”

11 wins is not gonna happen with this schedule.
lol Kincaid and Milano aren’t starters. I guess Josh might need to watch that shifty Turbisky fellow.

[notacon]

And through all of this you still failed to show how we have anyone equal or better to the guys we lost.


I have many times.

When the reality is that the players that departed were not worthy of being retained (as I detailed and you refuse comprehend the plain reality), everyone that will replace them is de facto "equal or better".

[OpIv37]

I have many times.

When the reality is that the players that departed were not worthy of being retained (as I detailed and you refuse comprehend the plain reality), everyone that will replace them is de facto "equal or better".
I fully understand why they weren’t worthy of being retained. But it’s still a net talent deficit. Everything you said is about what’s wrong with the guys we no longer have. None of that makes the guys we still have equal or better.

[notacon]

I fully understand why they weren’t worthy of being retained. But it’s still a net talent deficit. Everything you said is about what’s wrong with the guys we no longer have. None of that makes the guys we still have equal or better.

:rofl: You still don't get it do you???

McGovern is equal to Morse (but younger) - Morse will NOT be missed all that much.

Pretty much any of the top WR's in the draft class would be better than Diggs - he is an albatross and a cancer. We already saw how the Bills went 6-1 as soon as they started ignoring Diggs. Shakir is much more reliable target than Diggs....without the constant drama and diva bullcrap that diminishes Josh Allen's leadership.

Curtis Samuel is better than Davis - by a lot. Much more versatile weapon.

Mike Edwards is better than Poyer (at this point in their careers - Poyer is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) - younger too.

Rasul Douglas is better than White - without two devastating injuries and he's a better ball hawk than White.

Taylor Rapp is better than Hyde (at this point in their careers - Hyde is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) and a lot younger

[OpIv37]

:rofl: You still don't get it do you???

McGovern is equal to Morse (but younger) - Morse will NOT be missed all that much.

Pretty much any of the top WR's in the draft class would be better than Diggs - he is an albatross and a cancer. We already saw how the Bills went 6-1 as soon as they started ignoring Diggs. Shakir is much more reliable target than Diggs....without the constant drama and diva bullcrap that diminishes Josh Allen's leadership.

Curtis Samuel is better than Davis - by a lot. Much more versatile weapon.

Mike Edwards is better than Poyer (at this point in their careers - Poyer is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) - younger too.

Rasul Douglas is better than White - without two devastating injuries and he's a better ball hawk than White.

Taylor Rapp is better than Hyde (at this point in their careers - Hyde is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) and a lot younger
Of course. Whoever is on the Bills now is ALWAYS better than who we used to have in your homer mind.

[notacon]

Of course. Whoever is on the Bills now is ALWAYS better than who we used to have in your homer mind.


:rofl: Nope.

Of course. Whoever is on the Bills now is ALWAYS worse than who they used to have in your Pats/Fins/Jets homer mind.

[Chet]

:rofl: You still don't get it do you???

McGovern is equal to Morse (but younger) - Morse will NOT be missed all that much.

Pretty much any of the top WR's in the draft class would be better than Diggs - he is an albatross and a cancer. We already saw how the Bills went 6-1 as soon as they started ignoring Diggs. Shakir is much more reliable target than Diggs....without the constant drama and diva bullcrap that diminishes Josh Allen's leadership.

Curtis Samuel is better than Davis - by a lot. Much more versatile weapon.

Mike Edwards is better than Poyer (at this point in their careers - Poyer is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) - younger too.

Rasul Douglas is better than White - without two devastating injuries and he's a better ball hawk than White.

Taylor Rapp is better than Hyde (at this point in their careers - Hyde is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) and a lot younger

This post ranges from TBC to wishful thinking. You did not list one fact other than x players are older than y players.

Do better.

- - - Updated - - -


:rofl: You still don't get it do you???

McGovern is equal to Morse (but younger) - Morse will NOT be missed all that much.

Pretty much any of the top WR's in the draft class would be better than Diggs - he is an albatross and a cancer. We already saw how the Bills went 6-1 as soon as they started ignoring Diggs. Shakir is much more reliable target than Diggs....without the constant drama and diva bullcrap that diminishes Josh Allen's leadership.

Curtis Samuel is better than Davis - by a lot. Much more versatile weapon.

Mike Edwards is better than Poyer (at this point in their careers - Poyer is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) - younger too.

Rasul Douglas is better than White - without two devastating injuries and he's a better ball hawk than White.

Taylor Rapp is better than Hyde (at this point in their careers - Hyde is damaged goods who's best days are well behind him as his career is almost over) and a lot younger

This post ranges from TBC to wishful thinking. You did not list one fact other than x players are older than y players.

Do better.

[notacon]

This post ranges from TBC to wishful thinking. You did not list one fact other than x players are older than y players.

Do better.


No "from TBC to wishful thinking"....simple plain reality.

I've listed plenty of "facts" over several threads that support what I write.

What "facts" have you presented that refutes my astute observations????

[OpIv37]

:rofl: Nope.

Of course. Whoever is on the Bills now is ALWAYS worse than who they used to have in your Pats/Fins/Jets homer mind.
McGovern has never played C in the NFL before and you’re saying he’s better than Morse.

You’re saying an unnamed rookie who has never played in the NFL before is better than Davis.

It’s deranged homerism.

[notacon]

McGovern has never played C in the NFL before and you’re saying he’s better than Morse.

You’re saying an unnamed rookie who has never played in the NFL before is better than Davis.

It’s deranged homerism.

Nope. Just reality.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

McGovern has never played C in the NFL before and you’re saying he’s better than Morse.

You’re saying an unnamed rookie who has never played in the NFL before is better than Davis.

It’s deranged homerism.
curtis samuel is not an unnamed rookie.

now i will give you that diggs hasn't been replaced (yet) and McGovern is a big question mark.

other than that, i don't see a drop off with poyer/hyde/tre white with the replacements

[Chet]

No "from TBC to wishful thinking"....simple plain reality.

I've listed plenty of "facts" over several threads that support what I write.

What "facts" have you presented that refutes my astute observations????
“Anyone of the top WR in this draft class would be better than Diggs.”

Try not to advertise your stupidity.

So let me get this straight…you’re saying that (assuming the Bills draft or make a draft day move to get one of these WRs) despite the best 4-year receiving run in franchise history one of these WRs we draft will do better?

That is wishful thinking. And you know what? We all wish that. But you know the saying, you can wish in one hand and **** in the other “ “ “ “

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

“Anyone of the top WR in this draft class would be better than Diggs.”

Try not to advertise your stupidity.

So let me get this straight…you’re saying that (assuming the Bills draft or make a draft day move to get one of these WRs) despite the best 4-year receiving run in franchise history one of these WRs we draft will do better?

That is wishful thinking. And you know what? We all wish that. But you know the saying, you can wish in one hand and **** in the other “ “ “ “

better than the last overall four years of diggs? no one who's sane thinks the first round rookie will eclipse that immediately.

better than the last half of last year and playoffs diggs? yes, absolutely the first round rookie 'should' be better than that version

[notacon]

BTW...it's fitting that the two....uhhhh....."fans" that refuse to comprehend simple concepts are the two that said this....

After only GAME #5 in 2023...Chet insanely said....

I’m rooting for them to lose from here on out (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263978-Proud-of-this-team-so-far?p=5048014&viewfull=1#post5048014)

And Opi, the next week after only WEEK #6 and after a WIN spewed this rubbish...

It’s over. The window isn’t just closed. It’s slammed shut and boarded up. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264052-Outplayed-at-home-by-a-team-with-a-near-100-point-differential?p=5050576&viewfull=1#post5050576)

You two are as credible as the guy who is going to trial next week insisting that he never slept with a certain porn star. :rofl:

Please...try to sell your crap to somewhere else. It has zero value here.....try the Pats/Fins/Jets forum where you both sound like "homers' for those teams and they would embrace your ignorant anti-Bills baloney.

[notacon]

better than the last overall four years of diggs? no one who's sane thinks the first round rookie will eclipse that immediately.

better than the last half of last year and playoffs diggs? yes, absolutely the first round rookie 'should' be better than that version

You mean the last four years of Diggs PATHETICALLY TERRIBLE PLAYOFF performances....or more accurately his LACK of performance...Especially in every single playoff loss every of the four years he was on this team???? Not anywhere close to a #1 WR, but more like a 4th stringer struggling to stay off the practice squad.

I already detailed his crappy playoff play....


Factoid from Matthew Fairburn of The Athletic.... (https://theathletic.com/5218390/2024/01/22/buffalo-bills-stefon-diggs-kansas-city-chiefs/)

"Allen threw as many incomplete passes to Diggs on Sunday as he had thrown to Shakir in the last eight weeks combined."

Diggs has been invisible in the playoffs for the Bills. ESPECIALLY in the four playoff losses. Here are Diggs playoff stats with he Bills....


<tbody>

TGS
REC
Catch %
Yards
AVG/Y/C
Long
TD



Chiefs L

8
3
37.50%
21
7
15
0



Pittsburgh W
9
7
77.78%
52
7.4
12
0














Bengals L

10
4
40.00%
35
8.8
16
0



Miami W
9
7
77.78%
114
16.3
52
0














Chiefs L

6
3
50.00%
7
2.3
5
0



Pats W
4
3
75.00%
60
20
45
0














Chiefs L

11
6
54.55%
77
12.8
34
0



Ravens W
11
8
72.73%
106
13.3
20
1



Colts W
9
6
66.67%
128
21.3
36
1











AVG/Y/G


Totals
77
47
61.04%
600
12.77
45
2
66.67













LOSSES

35
16
45.71%
140
8.75
34
0
35

</tbody>


This catch just has to be made. ...

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code">
</code></samp><samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 560px; height: 316px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;" title="X Post" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1749257218594165129&lang=en&maxWidth=560px&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D265593&sessionId=3c8c16f50df10eee9a86ecb6aba7de61f823d8d9&theme=light&widgetsVersion=2615f7e52b7e0%3A1702314776716&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1749257218594165129"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp><samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"> </code></samp>


Diggs is the 5th highest paid WR in the NFL with an AVG/Y contact worth $24M.


That computes to $205,128 per catch (including playoffs). There may be some severe cap pain, but for the good of the team, it's probably time to move on from Stefon Diggs.




Yeah....any number of first round rookies (and WR already on the roster) can easily eclipse this crap in the playoffs...what really matters. Other than that, Josh Allen will easily make Diggs a distant (bad) memory.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2f70fb173b9000da126c79afe2098f02.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[notacon]

BTW....I posted my 100% accurate observations of just how ****ty Diggs has been in the playoffs WAY before they (thankfully) traded him....back in January 2024.

While in your inane "I’m rooting for them to lose from here on out," insufferable bullcrap post, you also said that "...keep Josh, Diggs, and the rookie contracts. Boy oh boy was I smart (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263978-Proud-of-this-team-so-far?p=5048014&viewfull=1#post5048014)" :rofl:

No. Pimping the crappy Diggs as the only vet (besides Josh) worthwhile keeping is the furthest thing from "smart".

[Forward_Lateral]

curtis samuel is not an unnamed rookie.

now i will give you that diggs hasn't been replaced (yet) and McGovern is a big question mark.

other than that, i don't see a drop off with poyer/hyde/tre white with the replacements
And with how Diggs performed when it mattered, and the Bills still won their last 5 games in a row to win the division despite him being a non factor just shows that they didn't need him to win at all.

[OpIv37]

BTW...it's fitting that the two....uhhhh....."fans" that refuse to comprehend simple concepts are the two that said this....

After only GAME #5 in 2023...Chet insanely said....

I’m rooting for them to lose from here on out (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263978-Proud-of-this-team-so-far?p=5048014&viewfull=1#post5048014)

And Opi, the next week after only WEEK #6 and after a WIN spewed this rubbish...

It’s over. The window isn’t just closed. It’s slammed shut and boarded up. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264052-Outplayed-at-home-by-a-team-with-a-near-100-point-differential?p=5050576&viewfull=1#post5050576)

You two are as credible as the guy who is going to trial next week insisting that he never slept with a certain porn star. :rofl:

Please...try to sell your crap to somewhere else. It has zero value here.....try the Pats/Fins/Jets forum where you both sound like "homers' for those teams and they would embrace your ignorant anti-Bills baloney.

The window is shut and boarded up. Last year’s team didn’t win it. This year’s team is worse and there are several AFC teams on the verge of catching up to us, in addition to the ones we already can’t beat.

Josh isn’t getting any younger, and now his huge contract has kicked in so it’ll be even harder to put a quality team around him. We’re never going to get chances as good as the last few years.

[Mad Max]

The window is shut and boarded up. Last year’s team didn’t win it. This year’s team is worse and there are several AFC teams on the verge of catching up to us, in addition to the ones we already can’t beat.

Josh isn’t getting any younger, and now his huge contract has kicked in so it’ll be even harder to put a quality team around him. We’re never going to get chances as good as the last few years.

Stop hiding from me eeyore.

[Forward_Lateral]

The window is shut and boarded up. Last year’s team didn’t win it. This year’s team is worse and there are several AFC teams on the verge of catching up to us, in addition to the ones we already can’t beat.

Josh isn’t getting any younger, and now his huge contract has kicked in so it’ll be even harder to put a quality team around him. We’re never going to get chances as good as the last few years.
Stop saying WE. You are not part of the team. You don't work for the team, you don't play for the team. You are barely a fan.

You saying "WE" is an embarrassment to fans who actually cheer for them and are happy when they win.

[OpIv37]

Stop saying WE. You are not part of the team. You don't work for the team, you don't play for the team. You are barely a fan.

You saying "WE" is an embarrassment to fans who actually cheer for them and are happy when they win.

You’ve never seen me on game day. I do cheer for them. I am happy when they win.

I don’t know why so many of you can’t comprehend that it’s possible to separate what I want to happen from what I expect to happen.

[sukie]

Expectations are premeditated resentments.

[Chet]

BTW...it's fitting that the two....uhhhh....."fans" that refuse to comprehend simple concepts are the two that said this....

After only GAME #5 in 2023...Chet insanely said....

I’m rooting for them to lose from here on out (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263978-Proud-of-this-team-so-far?p=5048014&viewfull=1#post5048014)

And Opi, the next week after only WEEK #6 and after a WIN spewed this rubbish...

It’s over. The window isn’t just closed. It’s slammed shut and boarded up. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264052-Outplayed-at-home-by-a-team-with-a-near-100-point-differential?p=5050576&viewfull=1#post5050576)

You two are as credible as the guy who is going to trial next week insisting that he never slept with a certain porn star. :rofl:

Please...try to sell your crap to somewhere else. It has zero value here.....try the Pats/Fins/Jets forum where you both sound like "homers' for those teams and they would embrace your ignorant anti-Bills baloney.
And with all that rambling the Bills STILL failed and have reached their ceiling. Facts don’t care about your feelings.

You are right at about a 20% clip and your endgame is always wrong. Always.

In regards to roster changes, YOU ALWAYS THINK THE NEXT MAN UP IS BETTER because you’re a shameless homer. In fact, the ONLY time you didn’t subscribe to this philosophy was with Tremaine Edmunds, who turned out to be the turd we all thought he was in relation to the god-given size and measurables he possesses. Bernard was light years better and actually impacted games, not just empty stat collecting.

You are wrong far more than you are right. Here’s a prediction: The Bills will be first-round fodder this year at best. You will run away and be noncommittal towards a prediction because that’s what you do. You complain about others but don’t have the balls to stick your neck out and risk your fragile ego being wrong.

[Chet]

better than the last overall four years of diggs? no one who's sane thinks the first round rookie will eclipse that immediately.

better than the last half of last year and playoffs diggs? yes, absolutely the first round rookie 'should' be better than that version

Even with Diggs sandbagging the last half of 2023 it would be an absolute coup if our (assumed) rookie WR puts up better numbers than Diggs. Whomever we draft with our first will have to be our #1 as well, since the other guys are good pieces but not stars. The rookie will have every chance to shine and surpass Diggs. I don’t see it happening unless they grab one of the top 3 wideouts.

[Chet]

Btw, you gotta love the hypocrisy of Notty. His circular arguments have come back to bite him in the ass. Homeboy wants to bury Diggs for poor playoff performances but he is more than happy to lap up the regular season semen of Sean McDermott and Leslie Frazier who turn into Marty Schottenheimer and Tom Olivadatti in the playoffs.

Pick a lane, you’re all over the place

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Even with Diggs sandbagging the last half of 2023 it would be an absolute coup if our (assumed) rookie WR puts up better numbers than Diggs. Whomever we draft with our first will have to be our #1 as well, since the other guys are good pieces but not stars. The rookie will have every chance to shine and surpass Diggs. I don’t see it happening unless they grab one of the top 3 wideouts.



better than 43 yards per game?

I can see any of the first round rookies doing Better than that

[Mad Max]

better than 43 yards per game?

I can see any of the first round rookies doing Better than that
Don’t see how they wouldn’t. It feels like we’re piling on a now former player but it definitely felt like dude checked out for the last half of the season.

You're getting paid millions to play a freaking game. NEVER check out. Show up one hundred percent every game.

[OpIv37]

Btw, you gotta love the hypocrisy of Notty. His circular arguments have come back to bite him in the ass. Homeboy wants to bury Diggs for poor playoff performances but he is more than happy to lap up the regular season semen of Sean McDermott and Leslie Frazier who turn into Marty Schottenheimer and Tom Olivadatti in the playoffs.

Pick a lane, you’re all over the place

Sorta his MO. He does the same thing with politics. To be fair, notty and I almost always agree when it comes to politics. But he does the same thing he does with the Bills. He digs in on the Democrats and never admits that they are wrong or made a mistake or have flaws. He gets entrenched in his side. I’ll give him credit for loyalty but it often clouds his views.

[Chet]

better than 43 yards per game?

I can see any of the first round rookies doing Better than that
Mate you can’t cherry pick what you want or don’t want to include. You take the whole package and assess from there. Will our rookie first rounder help us win games, draw doubles, shift coverages, and put up those kind of numbers over the course of his first season? As far as the playoffs, any middling WR can have a couple fluky playoff games (hell, we just jettisoned one ourselves).

I agree that a lot of these guys are “capable” of it, but it’s still a long shot in the first year. It looks like a great class, but time will tell who turns out to be your Jalen Reagor, Traylon Burks, Kevin White, Corey Coleman, John Ross, N’Keal Harry, and I could literally go on for an hour if I pulled up Google and just searched for more.

They all could be studs, busts, chronically injured or just painfully mediocre. To argue that they will be better than the best 4 year stretch of receiving in franchise history is wishful thinking…until it’s not.

[notacon]

The window is shut and boarded up. Last year’s team didn’t win it. This year’s team is worse and there are several AFC teams on the verge of catching up to us, in addition to the ones we already can’t beat.

Josh isn’t getting any younger, and now his huge contract has kicked in so it’ll be even harder to put a quality team around him. We’re never going to get chances as good as the last few years.


Thank you for verifying my premise 100%.

I will repeat....You are as credible as the guy who is going to trial next week insisting that he never slept with a certain porn star. :rofl:

Please...try to sell your crap to somewhere else. It has zero value here.....try the Pats/Fins/Jets forum where you both sound like "homers' for those teams and they would embrace your ignorant anti-Bills baloney.

[notacon]

And with all that rambling the Bills STILL failed and have reached their ceiling. Facts don’t care about your feelings.

You are right at about a 20% clip and your endgame is always wrong. Always.

In regards to roster changes, YOU ALWAYS THINK THE NEXT MAN UP IS BETTER because you’re a shameless homer. In fact, the ONLY time you didn’t subscribe to this philosophy was with Tremaine Edmunds, who turned out to be the turd we all thought he was in relation to the god-given size and measurables he possesses. Bernard was light years better and actually impacted games, not just empty stat collecting.

You are wrong far more than you are right. Here’s a prediction: The Bills will be first-round fodder this year at best. You will run away and be noncommittal towards a prediction because that’s what you do. You complain about others but don’t have the balls to stick your neck out and risk your fragile ego being wrong.

Actually, I am right a lot more than I am wrong. It's undeniable. You are sadly mistaken when you ignorantly say that "You are right at about a 20% clip and your endgame is always wrong. Always."

But, hey...I have plenty of posts that you can go though and show exactly when I am "wrong" 80% of the time. With links and full context. Put up or STFU!!!

I present "facts" all the time. Just like I did for Diggs abysmal, bad, terrible, useless playoff performances. Especially the last two playoff loses. Yet, YOU value him SO highly that you single him (and Josh...well...even a broken clock gets the correct time twice a day) as the only vets that should stay on the team.

You, being a biased anti-Bills whiner, do not have the capacity to comprehend undeniable facts and simple reality.

YOU are the one who basically (incredibly stupidly) wants to blow up the team and keep only vets Allen and Diggs (:rofl: the Bills could not wait to get rid at that cancer).


Yeah...sooooooooo smart. Get rid of Matt Milano, Taron Johnson, Dion Dawkins, Ed Oliver, DaQuan Jones, Rasul Douglas, Dawson Knox, Conner McGovern, Aj Epenesa...etc...how ****ing idiotic.

YOU were the one who ROOTED for the Bills to lose out after only five games last year.

THANKFULLY NO ONE in the Bills organization will listen to ANY of your moronic advice. In fact, they would laugh their asses off at your insipid baloney and dismiss it for exactly what it is....irrelevant noise coming from a "fan" that knows a LOT less about football than he thinks he does. A legend in his own warped mind.

Jesus....try to sell your crap on the Pats/Fins/Jets forums where they would eat up your anti-Bills bull****!!!

You and Opi can go there as a couple....

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.14747654.5340/ssrco,slim_fit_t_shirt,two_model,575734:56d55c57b2,back,square_three_quarter,1000x1000.u4.jpg

[Woodman]

Don’t see how they wouldn’t. It feels like we’re piling on a now former player but it definitely felt like dude checked out for the last half of the season.

It seems that way because he did ..... bye bye.