Keon Coleman

[justasportsfan]

Get to know him.

https://youtu.be/KhuBt4LnU6M?feature=shared


Combine
https://youtu.be/Vrh_xaaflGQ?feature=shared

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Highlights

https://youtu.be/zgWl2EtJzBg?feature=shared

[justasportsfan]

Top five things to know about new Bills WR Keon Coleman | 2024 NFL Draft

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/buffalo-bills-select-fsu-wr-keon-coleman-with-no-33-overall-pick-2024-nfl-draft

[sahlensguy]

Coleman - gauntlet drill.

https://youtu.be/IzpicbO_-tI?si=V4xClrcP93JfrQb2

Beane just schooled these teams picking wrs.

[YardRat]

Going to sticky the individual pick threads.

[YardRat]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMIBVJvW0AAzyJ5?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[justasportsfan]

Brandon Beane: "He's A Confident Kid - He's A Dog", On Draft Pick Keon Coleman | Buffalo Bills

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/brandon-beane-he-s-a-confident-kid-he-s-a-dog-on-draft-pick-keon-coleman-buffalo-bills

[sahlensguy]

I love this pick already.

"Josh Allen ,for sure. He can throw the ball"

https://youtu.be/VJq6uXtILG4?si=pEdCIL8J3rrtrmD_

[ParanoidAndroid]

So, you're saying 40 time isn't everything?

I think he compliments the set of guys we have well.

We already have plenty of raw speed.

[cookie G]

With the deepest WR class in recent memory, a self imposed hole at WR, the pick of the WRs at 28, the ability to move up for a stud in the 20's and they came up with...

the 2024 version of Kelvin Benjamin.

Its going to be great relegating your one in a lifetime QB to a 10-20 yard box for his pass game.

[justasportsfan]

Steve Smith Sr. Breaks down Keon Coleman.

https://youtu.be/dIRyC04Hjy0?feature=shared

[sukie]

Coleman has weight issues and w-or ethic pronblems like Benjamin? Missed that . Could be a lazy comparison…

[YardRat]

CBS (not that anybody cares) gave the pick a C-, saying he doesn't play as well as his highlight reel.

[cookie G]

Coleman has weight issues and w-or ethic pronblems like Benjamin? Missed that . Could be a lazy comparison…

Fine.

He's the next Jerry Rice because he ran a 4.6 40!!

Happy now?

[justasportsfan]

Coleman interview after being drafted

https://youtu.be/GI_zMTj5ca0?feature=shared

[Ingtar33]

his route running is not good. but his hands are the real deal, as is his physique.

dude will make plays. not sure how well he translates to the league we'll see.

[Forward_Lateral]

his route running is not good. but his hands are the real deal, as is his physique.

dude will make plays. not sure how well he translates to the league we'll see.

Hopefully he’s committed to improving and works hard to become a good route runner

[justasportsfan]

CBS (not that anybody cares) gave the pick a C-, saying he doesn't play as well as his highlight reel.

These CBS guys gave it A-

https://youtu.be/fFNj0KhcYW0?feature=shared

[imbondz]

Josh will make any WR look good. Here’s to hoping Coleman is the real deal. :cheers:

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I think the fairest thing to say about Coleman is that he's young and raw, but has elite athleticism. And the Bills know this. They drafted him for his ceiling, not his minimal college past. He's a project and judging him on his past is speculation. But, uh, SUPER BOWL!

[justasportsfan]

Keon Gets call from Bills

https://youtu.be/hd_V91aaF9Y?feature=shared

[JoeMama]

Kelvin Benjamin 2.0

Waste of a pick

[Woodman]

Josh Allen asked for Coleman.

[sukie]

Kelvin Benjamin 2.0

Waste of a pick
I don’t see the weight issue or lack of work ethic for that lazy take comparison. Check his pee!

[sukie]

Josh Allen asked for Coleman.
Link it

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Kelvin Benjamin 2.0

Waste of a pick

2 dropped passes in 87 targets is kelvin benjamin?

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Link it

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/265752-Keon-Coleman?p=5102063&viewfull=1#post5102063

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2 dropped passes in 87 targets is kelvin benjamin?

The dude has 5 career drops. We've had more drops in a game than that.

[kgun12]

The ESPN group just said it wouldn’t surprise him if Coleman not only will be a day one starter but could be the Bills number one WR!

[TacklingDummy]

Coleman is going to be the rookie of the year. Bank on it.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The front office is not stupid, especially after sitting on the pick for a day and I'm sure they watched videos and went over everything again today before the draft.

First, Coleman bring smething to the Bills WR room they don't have. So it is at least a complimentary piece. So say in a game when the opposing team is blanking our smaller but fast receivers - happened often late last year when man coverage seemed to neutralized Diggs, Davis, now we have someone you can throw jump ball too. I don't know it is the best strategy but it is a new avenue for Josh.

Second, he's very much a boom or bust guy. Route running and separation looked to be subpar compared to others in his tier, though short area quickness is superb, thus the comparison to Saints' Mike Williams in the big nickel usage. But I hear another comparison - look at the DHop draft profile. A lot of similarity in terms of size, weight, speed, and jump ball capability, as well as college production. DHop was drafted 1st round 27th overall, not far from Coleman's #33. So Beane and company are hoping for the boom here instead of taking those middle of the road kind of solid category. For the Bills sake, hope this guy refines his route running skills to maximize his physical traits, like DHop did when he came into NFL.

[kgun12]

The ESPN group just said it wouldn’t surprise him if Coleman not only will be a day one starter but could be the Bills number one WR!

The NFL Network post draft guys just said the same thing!

[TheConsigliere]

I would have preferred C Jackson Power-Johnson or 1DT Sweat however drafting Coleman was certainly worth it in a position of need.

If he works hard on his craft to improve separation through better route running, he certainly could become a very good WR.

[Historian]

Lecter (who watches all FSU games) says he's the real deal. Catches everything.

I'm happy we finally got a big body wide receiver to take the ball away from smaller corners, but I still feel we don't have a number one receiver.

4.6 time isn't impressive, but nobody ever said Andre Reed was fast....except for the guys chasing him.

One hole filled.

And it wouldn't surprise me if we took another receiver in the fifth or 6th.

[sukie]

I thanked you not for relaying the Lecter comments. I mean the dude plays with his poop. That aside, 40 times are overrated. We are talking 10ths and hundredths of seconds.

(there is another Lecter joke in there but …)

[DetoxTent]

Of all possibilities for WR, not impressed. The typical lemmings are head over heels here. This player is going to have to prove he's worthy of being a starting NFL WR, because no matter how many YouTube video you clowns post, this pick is just underwhelming. How short are your memories? You all flipped out in a similar fashion over James Hardy? Another tall (6' 5") round two failure at WR. So he's going to have to prove himself.

[justasportsfan]

Coleman is going to be the rookie of the year. Bank on it.

I doubt it. Allen will spread the ball between Kincaid and Samuel first.

[DetoxTent]

The dude has 5 career drops. We've had more drops in a game than that.

Spraying more stickum on his gloves than others.

But you've brought out the one WR stat the the Bills have clearly focused in on lately -> drops.

This player has a good rep for hanging on to the ball. Others here have compared how much better Curtis Samuel held onto the ball c/w Gabe Davis.

[BillsviaVA]

Maybe just a Gabe Davis replacement.

[DetoxTent]

The ESPN group just said it wouldn’t surprise him if Coleman not only will be a day one starter but could be the Bills number one WR!

Stop buying into that BS. LOL.

[DetoxTent]

Coleman is going to be the rookie of the year. Bank on it.

:assclown::assclown::assclown:

[sukie]

Stop buying into that BS. LOL.

Stop buying into post draft grades BS.

All through the 90s draft grades C C-

the interwebs woulda exploded with the notion of that Reed pick outta Kutztown was gonna be awesome

[JoeMama]

Coleman will be bust of the year. Too slow to get separation. Struggles vs press coverage. Lacks acceleration. Not a good blocker.

Reeks of Kelvin Benjamin and James Hardy.

[YardRat]

The front office is not stupid, especially after sitting on the pick for a day and I'm sure they watched videos and went over everything again today before the draft.

First, Coleman bring smething to the Bills WR room they don't have. So it is at least a complimentary piece. So say in a game when the opposing team is blanking our smaller but fast receivers - happened often late last year when man coverage seemed to neutralized Diggs, Davis, now we have someone you can throw jump ball too. I don't know it is the best strategy but it is a new avenue for Josh.

Second, he's very much a boom or bust guy. Route running and separation looked to be subpar compared to others in his tier, though short area quickness is superb, thus the comparison to Saints' Mike Williams in the big nickel usage. But I hear another comparison - look at the DHop draft profile. A lot of similarity in terms of size, weight, speed, and jump ball capability, as well as college production. DHop was drafted 1st round 27th overall, not far from Coleman's #33. So Beane and company are hoping for the boom here instead of taking those middle of the road kind of solid category. For the Bills sake, hope this guy refines his route running skills to maximize his physical traits, like DHop did when he came into NFL.

A big difference in a DHop comp is hand size...10" (Diggs also, btw) compared to 9-3/8"

And yes, it makes a difference for WR's and QB's.

[sahlensguy]

A big difference in a DHop comp is hand size...10" (Diggs also, btw) compared to 9-3/8"

And yes, it makes a difference for WR's and QB's.

5/8“ is a big difference?

The favorable comp to DHop is poor, unfortunately. Keon does not get separation down field. DHop, of course did.

Keon compares more to Cooper Kupp. He gets seperation earlier in the route. He could potentially excel in a big slot role. He just hasn't played that role.

[Canadian'eh!]

I’m in record 100 times already.

Coleman will bust. Horrid pick. Literally any other WR would have been better.

[sahlensguy]

I’m in record 100 times already.

Coleman will bust. Horrid pick. Literally any other WR would have been better.

After 100 times, I got it!

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Details on route running to create separation is what going to make him a boom or bust as I said. DHop does not have great speed. But great at the point of separation using his hands and body lean. Brandon Marshall has that famous push and pull technique against press DBs. I saw Steve Smith Sr. had a brerakdown on Coleman and mentioned some great use of hands for separation at times. Everyone is doing it differently. Keon needs develop some consistency and some new ways.

[TacklingDummy]

Lecter (who watches all FSU games) says he's the real deal. Catches everything.

I'm happy we finally got a big body wide receiver to take the ball away from smaller corners, but I still feel we don't have a number one receiver.

4.6 time isn't impressive, but nobody ever said Andre Reed was fast....except for the guys chasing him.

One hole filled.

And it wouldn't surprise me if we took another receiver in the fifth or 6th.


Didn’t Lecter also praise EJ Manuel?

[sahlensguy]

Details on route running to create separation is what going to make him a boom or bust as I said. DHop does not have great speed. But great at the point of separation using his hands and body lean. Brandon Marshall has that famous push and pull technique against press DBs. I saw Steve Smith Sr. had a brerakdown on Coleman and mentioned some great use of hands for separation at times. Everyone is doing it differently. Keon needs develop some consistency and some new ways.

DHop was a down field threat coming out of college. Coleman is not.

They are two different receivers.

If they can mold Keon to his strength - shorter routes, they can have something.

[TacklingDummy]

I doubt it. Allen will spread the ball between Kincaid and Samuel first.

Josh is going to throw to Coleman alot just to make the trading Diggs look even better.

Won’t surprise me Coleman gets 12 TDs this year.

[sukie]

Difference between 4.6 and 4.4 40 times is meaningless in football games. It’s 10ths of a second if one was running a race. Not cutting . Getting a DB to bite on a move then accelerating. It’s that makes the difference. Keon was 1st round on a lot of mocks prior to his 4.6 at the combine. Surely his slowness was on tape when those early mocks came out.

you guys think he’s a sloth. I haven’t seen much tape on him being dragged down from behind … if at all.

[sahlensguy]

Difference between 4.6 and 4.4 40 times is meaningless in football games. It’s 10ths of a second if one was running a race. Not cutting . Getting a DB to bite on a move then accelerating. It’s that makes the difference. Keon was 1st round on a lot of mocks prior to his 4.6 at the combine. Surely his slowness was on tape when those early mocks came out.

you guys think he’s a sloth. I haven’t seen much tape on him being dragged down from behind … if at all.

It's the reports that he creates seperation earlier in his routes, but not later in his routes that is concerning.

[cookie G]

The ESPN group just said it wouldn’t surprise him if Coleman not only will be a day one starter but could be the Bills number one WR!

Well, yeah, he can be penciled in as a day 1 starter. You've got Shakir and Samuel penciled in as the irst 2 and then you have...

um...

Andy Isabella?

Winning the starting job by default doesn't impress me.

The hands/lack of drops is good of course, but if you look at a number of the WRs around this range and they have similar numbers/hands.

Mitchell dropped one ball last year, Ricky Pearsall dropped either 2 or 3. Mitchell, Bryan Thomas and Legette all provide similar, if not the same contested catch ability.

But those guys also provide explosiveness or at least the potential of explosiveness. Its one of the things that made this WR class so special.

SO we drafted a guy who...well, separation isn't a strength.

But tbh, this doesn't surprise me. As good as they are in drafting/singing other gems, esp. DB's...WR isn't a strength for this organization.

There is a reason they gave up a 1st round pick for Diggs...and to this day it makes a wise decision.

Because they weren't getting it done otherwise. they had a history of bringing in guys like Andre Holmes, or trading for ...ugh...Kelvin Benjamin.

and they wren't showing the draft resources or ability to draft one or two. At the time at least, they understood that, so they traded for Diggs.

Later, they got a few guys who filled a role in the mid rounds, like Gabe Davis and Shakir.

They haven't been the smartest guys in the roo in the WR dept, so I don't put much stock in the "X or Y wasn't that hard on Beane's board".

I've got the feeling this will be a what-could-have-been, situation.

[YardRat]

5/8“ is a big difference?

The favorable comp to DHop is poor, unfortunately. Keon does not get separation down field. DHop, of course did.

Keon compares more to Cooper Kupp. He gets seperation earlier in the route. He could potentially excel in a big slot role. He just hasn't played that role.

Yes.

You extrapolate that 5/8" over the entire circumference of the hand from thumb tip to pinkie tip and that adds up to a lot of extra surface area for gripping a ball.

[sahlensguy]

Yes.

You extrapolate that 5/8" over the entire circumference of the hand from thumb tip to pinkie tip and that adds up to a lot of extra surface area for gripping a ball.

Keon has average sized hands for an NFL wr and he doesn't drop anything. Why do you see this part of his game as an issue?

[YardRat]

Keon has average sized hands for an NFL wr and he doesn't drop anything. Why do you see this part of his game as an issue?

I don't think it's an issue on it's own, and can be masked with other skills/attributes. Jefferson's hands are only 9-1/8", for example. I mention it in the context of the comp to DHop. I wouldn't be expecting Coleman to be plucking balls out of the air like he's got glue on his hands like we see DHop and Diggs do, because his hands aren't as big. That's all.

[YardRat]

—Well-built player with a high-cut frame and long stride.

—Attacks jump balls and has tools to win on contested catches

—Has enough speed to take a slant route to the house; will turn on the jets post-catch.

—Strong at the line of scrimmage; uses his frame to keep defenders off the ball.

—21-year-old prospect with a lot of room for development.

—Limited drops on strong hands.

—Reliable red-zone target and outside-the-hashes threat.

There are times when (he) wows you with his hands, production and ability to beat press coverage, and then there are others where you wonder how he'll ever separate in the NFL (http://bleacherreport.com/nfl). He's a project, but he's a high-ceiling player with good hands, good size and enough speed to find a home in an NFL wide receiver corps. —Wins downfield with good body adjustments and awareness.

[sahlensguy]

I don't think it's an issue on it's own, and can be masked with other skills/attributes. Jefferson's hands are only 9-1/8", for example. I mention it in the context of the comp to DHop. I wouldn't be expecting Coleman to be plucking balls out of the air like he's got glue on his hands like we see DHop and Diggs do, because his hands aren't as big. That's all.

Ok.

Keon is longer than Diggs though and a better jumper so I wouldn't bet that.

[YardRat]

Ok.

Keon is longer than Diggs though and a better jumper so I wouldn't bet that.

Keon wingspan 78", Diggs 83". He does have a better vertical by 3", though.

[tomz]

The hands/lack of drops is good of course, but if you look at a number of the WRs around this range and they have similar numbers/hands.

Mitchell dropped one ball last year, Ricky Pearsall dropped either 2 or 3. Mitchell, Bryan Thomas and Legette all provide similar, if not the same contested catch ability.

Actually the knock on most of those guys was that they did NOT show contested catch ability in spite of size. Ball skills matter a lot.

that said, I was really surprised by this particular pick.

[sahlensguy]

Keon wingspan 78", Diggs 83". He does have a better vertical by 3", though.

What?

Says here Diggs' wingspan is 75 3/4"

https://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=122732&DraftYear=2015

[YardRat]

What?

Says here Diggs' wingspan is 75 3/4"

https://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=122732&DraftYear=2015

My bad, the 83 I used is his percentile, not measured. I stand corrected :beers:

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

It amazes me that you all are judging with certainty a 20 year old guy with notable elite athletic talent who is raw and early in his football experience. He's not a polished NFL-ready WR, but he has ceiling. Reminds me of the Josh Allen pick.

[notacon]

Keon Coleman seems to be a perfect fit for the Bills.

He is going to catch a A LOT of TD's. Josh is going to love him in the red zone.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The best argument I heard so far is on cover 1 where they had someone who knows Joe Brady very well. His main point is development being the key for Coleman and Brady has a good track record on young wide receivers. Coleman is not even 21 yet, one of the youngest in the draft. He termed Coleman being very raw, winning with his athleticism so far. So Bills must’ve thought he has significant room to grow on trchnique. When Brady was at LSU, Jefferson was ok and Chase etc were nothing as a freshman, but blossomed year 2 & 3. He gave Brady a lot of credit there

[ghz in pittsburgh]

He even said he thinks Brady will start to work on slants for Coleman, something he is not asked to do much in college but a must for a X in nfl. And it might be easier for him to learn and master given his short area quickness. That maybe the only thing they focus on in his rookie year. He did say if Coleman does not progress in this area, then the writing is on the wall

[ghz in pittsburgh]

This is the theme I stated a few times. How much better someone who is older and played with all of those nfl talent in college can be going forward in nfl? MHJ is reportedly having his dad training him, teaching him all of the tricks. Will someone in nfl teach him that much more new stuff for him to take another huge leap? A Coleman is a gamble but the ceiling is much more than what he has shown so far

[Woodman]

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[justasportsfan]

It amazes me that you all are judging with certainty a 20 year old guy with notable elite athletic talent who is raw and early in his football experience. He's not a polished NFL-ready WR, but he has ceiling. Reminds me of the Josh Allen pick.

Another typical Beane pick . Raw with freakish physical attributes , high ceiling . Beane said he wanted players who were ready to play.

He better be able to win 50/50 balls when Josh is scrambling out of trouble.

[justasportsfan]

https://youtu.be/-R3zqk2l0Rg?feature=shared

[Woodman]

‘This is a guy who was good enough on the court to play for legendary Michigan State coach Tom Izzo’s team when he was a two-sport freshman for the Spartans in 2020 and 2021.’

~ BuffaloNews

[DetoxTent]

It amazes me that you all are judging with certainty a 20 year old guy with notable elite athletic talent who is raw and early in his football experience. He's not a polished NFL-ready WR, but he has ceiling. Reminds me of the Josh Allen pick.
You're allowed to your opinion. But this pick should remind you of the James Hardy pick. He was a 6' 5" 2nd-round Bills pick that was supposed to all the things they say Coleman is to do. He was a HUGE bust. So, hopefully, Coleman shows himself differently. But, that so many teams drafted other WRs in front of him, doesn't exactly seem like the other teams thought enough about him to take him in the first. We'll see.

[sukie]

You're allowed to your opinion. But this pick should remind you of the James Hardy pick. He was a 6' 5" 2nd-round Bills pick that was supposed to all the things they say Coleman is to do. He was a HUGE bust. So, hopefully, Coleman shows himself differently. But, that so many teams drafted other WRs in front of him, doesn't exactly seem like the other teams thought enough about him to take him in the first. We'll see.
So what part exactly is your comsprison based on… the chronic hamstring injuries, the fact at 6’5” he played basketball and was quite honored in the sport, or his suicidal tendencies

it’s a wee different game today than in 2008. Yes some bust but some do not. By looking at a guy the comparisons are silly.

in Josh’s QB class, late mocks , did any expert compare Rosen to Leaf or Klingler?

no one thought Darnold would epic fail.

Let the playing begin.

[Woodman]

By dumping Diggs and Davis we are gonna get some competition for a change.

Real incentive when you know hey I really gotta shot now.

Shorter, Coleman, Shakir, Samuel, Hollins, Isabella, Cephus, Shavers, Hamler and Thompson.

Ok guys here's your shot go and make it happen.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Watch his Bills introduction presser, the 20-year-old youth comes right off the screen. Compared to others draft picks with measured somewhat coached up responses, this guy is fairly green. I can see someone may not like his interview. But others like the Bills think they can mold him to new heights.

Does it remind you your first interview as a 20-year-old?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZ0Qusuh7A

[sahlensguy]

Watch his Bills introduction presser, the 20-year-old youth comes right off the screen. Compared to others draft picks with measured somewhat coached up responses, this guy is fairly green. I can see someone may not like his interview. But others like the Bills think they can mold him to new heights.

Does it remind you your first interview as a 20-year-old?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZ0Qusuh7A

Why might some not like his interview?

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

You're allowed to your opinion. But this pick should remind you of the James Hardy pick. He was a 6' 5" 2nd-round Bills pick that was supposed to all the things they say Coleman is to do. He was a HUGE bust. So, hopefully, Coleman shows himself differently. But, that so many teams drafted other WRs in front of him, doesn't exactly seem like the other teams thought enough about him to take him in the first. We'll see.

My point is that any opinion about his future needs to be broadened away from certainty. He could be anything.

I remember getting in a flight from Buffalo to Atlanta, nearly full, when all of a sudden a half dozen athlete types board and sit in the remaining seats. Next to me sat Eric Ciano. One row up from me was Hardy. I asked Ciano how Hardy was doing, and while his words were “he’s gonna be alright,” his face said no.

Would I say that Coleman is Hardy, because they’re both the big red zone target? That’s a bit simpleminded.

[John Doe]

Here are some Keon Coleman highlights.

A man among boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwvZhH72JWM

[sahlensguy]

Here are some Keon Coleman highlights.

A man among boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwvZhH72JWM

He needs to be developed but Josh is going to love him in the red zone, This Year.

[justasportsfan]

IMO , Bean had Worthy ,Legette, Coleman in the same group. Whoever KC and Panthers didn't pick we would've taken at 33 and pretend he was our guy all along.

[Mad Max]

New information learned is that he likes cookies and Macy’s.

Seems like a nice kid. Let’s hope he outshines the guys we passed up for him.

[Mad Max]

IMO , Bean had Worthy ,Legette, Coleman in the same group. Whoever KC and Panthers didn't pick we would've taken at 33 and pretend he was our guy all along.
They’re three completely different players so why would Beane lump all of them together?

[justasportsfan]

They’re three completely different players so why would Beane lump all of them together?

Maybe sifferent skill set but same value.

I'm assuming he would've said Worthy would be the speed guy to go over the top and made some excuse for Xavier.

He didn't drop down knowing Coleman would've been there at 32.

[Novacane]

But, that so many teams drafted other WRs in front of him, doesn't exactly seem like the other teams thought enough about him to take him in the first. We'll see.


That could be said every year. There were 4 WR taken before Justin Jefferson. You think there's 6 teams that would change their 2018 pick to Josh Allen if they had the chance?

[Novacane]

Where would Puca Nacua go if last years draft was redone? All the hand wringing over taking the wrong player is just farting in the wind. No one knows where this story will go.

[Mad Max]

Why might some not like his interview?
NOBODY doesn’t like that interview. “Nah, Macy’s…whatchoo mean?” LMAO

https://youtu.be/dPaRM3CwClE?feature=shared


if you haven’t seen the interview, do yourself a favor and watch it…it’ll bring a smile to your face.


The kid is winning hearts from fans of teams all across the league from this interview alone.

If he ends up good on the field bro is gonna make ALL the money in endorsements.

Read these comments on Reddit. Note the fan allegiances of the posters (hint most aren’t Bills fans).

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/QdUPX0R275

[sahlensguy]

NOBODY doesn’t like that interview.


Ghz said that he could see how some ppl might not like it.

He's already one of my favorite Bills.

Can't imagine what ghz saw, so I asked.

[Mad Max]

Ghz said that he could see how some ppl might not like it.

He's already one of my favorite Bills.

Can't imagine what ghz saw, so I asked.

I know you saw it. My post was just linked off yours for those who haven’t seen it.

[YardRat]

Yeah, I don't see how anybody would have an issue with his interview.

Here's to hoping we struck gold and everybody that snagged a receiver before us ends up saying "why didn't we take him instead?" :beers:

[DraftBoy]

I think with Coleman you’re hoping for an Eric Moulds type development with his route running becoming his main focus. If you get that then you got a steal.

If not then you’re potential getting a Kelvin Benjamin type. Though I do think Coleman’s burst and agility is better than Benjamin.

Benjamin -
40 - 4.61
10S - 1.62
Vertical - 32.5
Broad - 119

Coleman -
40 - 4.61
10S - 1.54
Vertical - 38
Broad - 127

[ghz in pittsburgh]

There are reports his team interviews do not go well. To reporters, talking about Macy's clothes, sharing cookies are fun and genuine stuff. But I know there are management types looking all of those seemingly innocent details and wondering why this guy is not 100% on football in this setting, or lack of self control eating stuff like cookies.

[sahlensguy]

Wow.

Keon was asked about his jacket as he was sitting down, at his 1st formal interview as a pro. It was a fine response and when the football questions came he did great. I know a well spoken 20 year old athlete can put some people on edge, but still...

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I think with Coleman you’re hoping for an Eric Moulds type development with his route running becoming his main focus. If you get that then you got a steal.

If not then you’re potential getting a Kelvin Benjamin type. Though I do think Coleman’s burst and agility is better than Benjamin.

Benjamin -
40 - 4.61
10S - 1.62
Vertical - 32.5
Broad - 119

Coleman -
40 - 4.61
10S - 1.54
Vertical - 38
Broad - 127

DHop -
40 - 4.57
10S = 1.59
vertical - 36
broad - 115

Supposedly Coleman improved his 40 yard speed to 4.5x range in his pro day. I still believe his ceiling is DHop, creating separation using intelligence and physicality just like DHop did in his career. For example, one of the trademark move is DHop routinely sets up back-shoulder catches by allowing the cornerback to get on top of him and then boxing them out. There is no reason Coleman can't copy that move.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Coleman is raw. There are reviews out there from his Seminoles tape that it seems a lot of his plays have no route concept at all. Pretty much we move everyone to give you space, and then we lob the ball up and you go up to dunk on them. And he did that successfully. I'd imagine Brady saw that and say "imagine if we get him to run routes..." whereas Josh saw that the say "Imagine in rezone where I have no place to go with the ball ..."

[ghz in pittsburgh]

And the other side of the coin is also true: Andy Reid says "I don't want to find out if Coleman can run routes, but I can imagine Worthy running free ..."

[sahlensguy]

Beane sucks at drafting wrs. He traded back one spot with Carolina, foregoing the 5th year option on Coleman. He's not even confident enough in himself to be sure Coleman will last past his 4th year.

[cookie G]

I think with Coleman you’re hoping for an Eric Moulds type development with his route running becoming his main focus. If you get that then you got a steal.

If not then you’re potential getting a Kelvin Benjamin type. Though I do think Coleman’s burst and agility is better than Benjamin.

Benjamin -
40 - 4.61
10S - 1.62
Vertical - 32.5
Broad - 119

Coleman -
40 - 4.61
10S - 1.54
Vertical - 38
Broad - 127


yeah, the pro comps are always a little fun, as long as they are taken with a grain of salt.

There was one over the weekend I considered.

I'll give Lance Zierlien's review of the guy I was thinking of:


40-Yard Dash 4.53

10-Yard Split 1.55

Vertical Jump 38.5’’
Broad Jump 10’ 2’’
Bench Press 27

Overview

Back-shoulder boss who thrives with contested catch opportunities outside the numbers but lacks explosive traits. Ability to body-up opponents and win with ball skills is undeniable, but his inability to find a threatening top gear or shake loose from tight man coverage must be accounted for within his new employer's scheme. His experience playing inside should help and teams will love his impact as a run-blocker. His competitiveness and ability to come down with the ball could make him a productive member of wide receiver trio in short order.

Strengths

Highly competitive at everything he does. Consistently productive over three seasons. Fearless play demeanor with alpha swagger. Uses hands to swat coverage jam and release from press. Big, presentable target on slants and in zone work. Leverages and stems his way to open catch space. Plays with patience and poise to win combat catches. Strong hands and well-respected ball skills. Outworks opponents to carve out work space in tight quarters. Wins jump balls with well-timed leaps and frame to shield the finish. Stiff-arm getaways after the catch. Junkyard dog who is willing to scrap as a blocker. Can clinch and manhandle finesse corners in space.

Weaknesses

Feet not quick enough in stutter-release vs. press. Tends to wear tight, press coverage for much of the route. Downhill speed fails to threaten most cornerbacks. NFL corners likely to squat on and squeeze his breaks and turns. Too upright slowing his route breaks. Suffered from a few focus drops headed into traffic. Needs better urgency getting up the field after catch. Below-average stop-start quickness to elude and accelerate. Wasn't a major factor in red zone.

Sources Tell Us

"All this talk about (his lack of) separation is overdone. In the league, nobody gets that much separation anyway. You have to know how to use your body and route leverage and you need strong hands. From what I've seen of him, he does all that stuff well." -- Wide receivers coach with AFC team

Hint 1: Its not Gabe Davis

Hint 2: He was drafted around the same area of the draft.

[sukie]

Beane sucks at drafting wrs. He traded back one spot with Carolina, foregoing the 5th year option on Coleman. He's not even confident enough in himself to be sure Coleman will last past his 4th year.
From what I read it was possibly a cost saving move and if Keon brings it… he will be extended after year 3

[YardRat]

There are reports his team interviews do not go well. To reporters, talking about Macy's clothes, sharing cookies are fun and genuine stuff. But I know there are management types looking all of those seemingly innocent details and wondering why this guy is not 100% on football in this setting, or lack of self control eating stuff like cookies.
His football responses were fine, pretty good actually.

Coleman is raw. There are reviews out there from his Seminoles tape that it seems a lot of his plays have no route concept at all. Pretty much we move everyone to give you space, and then we lob the ball up and you go up to dunk on them. And he did that successfully. I'd imagine Brady saw that and say "imagine if we get him to run routes..." whereas Josh saw that the say "Imagine in rezone where I have no place to go with the ball ..."

He addressed that in the press conference, specifically a receiver's responsibilities in an Air Raid offense like the Seminoles run versus the Pro style of Michigan State.

[sahlensguy]

From what I read it was possibly a cost saving move and if Keon brings it… he will be extended after year 3

Sends a terrible message to the organization if they need to save on that cost.

[YardRat]

Hint 1: Its not Gabe Davis

Hint 2: He was drafted around the same area of the draft.

Ooh! Ooh!!

https://packagetalk.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/horshack3.jpg?w=232&h=300

[sahlensguy]

His football responses were fine, pretty good actually.

Yeah, not sure what the problem is.

Here's Josh's introduction press conference - who didn't fly solo. Maybe that Keon didn't have the suit, Bills pin and hat rubbed some the wrong way.

On a side note, Tremaine was a great guy and built! Sucks he didn't work out.

https://m.facebook.com/BuffaloBills/videos/josh-allen-and-tremaine-edmunds-introductory-press-conference/10156096309320659/

[cookie G]

Beane sucks at drafting wrs. He traded back one spot with Carolina, foregoing the 5th year option on Coleman. He's not even confident enough in himself to be sure Coleman will last past his 4th year.

Well, he hasn't used a pick in rounds 1-3 in Buffalo to draft as WR.

I was fine with what they got out of Gabe Davis as a low 4th round pick.
And I'm happy what they had/have in Shakir as a 5th round pick.

But those are rounds where you say, "if he works out, great, if not...its the 4th or 5th round."

But there was a reason he used a 1st round pick to trade for Diggs. Because as you said, his ability to find a difference maker, a go to guy, is a bit spotty.
So he traded for a proven commodity. I maintain that was a wise decision.


Here, he has put the WR corps in a situation where you have to nail the 1st round pick, no ifs, ands or buts.

And I have my doubts as to whether he did.

He could have used the 2nd rounder as trade capital to move up for Brian Thomas, but apparently chose not to.

This don't work out, he has some serious questions to answer. And I maintain, it could be a termination worthy offense.

- - - Updated - - -


Ooh! Ooh!!

https://packagetalk.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/horshack3.jpg?w=232&h=300

Give it to me Horseshack!

[sahlensguy]

Well, he hasn't used a pick in rounds 1-3 in Buffalo to draft as WR.

I was fine with what they got out of Gabe Davis as a low 4th round pick.
And I'm happy what they had/have in Shakir as a 5th round pick.

But those are rounds where you say, "if he works out, great, if not...its the 4th or 5th round."

But there was a reason he used a 1st round pick to trade for Diggs. Because as you said, his ability to find a difference maker, a go to guy, is a bit spotty.
So he traded for a proven commodity. I maintain that was a wise decision.


Here, he has put the WR corps in a situation where you have to nail the 1st round pick, no ifs, ands or buts.

And I have my doubts as to whether he did.

He could have used the 2nd rounder as trade capital to move up for Brian Thomas, but apparently chose not to.

This don't work out, he has some serious questions to answer. And I maintain, it could be a termination worthy offense.

- - - Updated - - -



Give it to me Horseshack!

Beane could have traded up for BTJ or taken Coleman at 28 or traded up later for a 2nd wr or just drafted another wr. He did none of that. No conviction in his moves for a wr.

[cookie G]

Beane could have traded up for BTJ or taken Coleman at 28 or traded up later for a 2nd wr or just drafted another wr. He did none of that. No conviction in his moves for a wr.

As Thomas kept falling, I was actually assuming to hear a trade up. Never happened, and apparently, he didn't try.

I the 3rd, when they took Carter, guys like Lil Bro McCaffery, Troy Franklin and Javon Baker were still on the board.

McCaffery is about as good of an athlete as his older brother, a tinge faster, and has only been playing WR for 2 years (and had around 900 yards last year. )
Don't know what scared them off about Franklin
Javon Baker had shown himself capable of being a good intermediate and deep threat.

They were all good hedges against a potential bust of Coleman, or at least adding a potential deep threat. He chose not to do so.

This year, the "he wasn't as high on our board" defense isn't going to cut it.

[Woodman]

Bills draft picks 2024 analysis- How the new players fit with the team (https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2024/04/29/bills-draft-picks-2024-analysis-how-the-new-players-fit-with-the-team/73493008007/)

‘It seemed clear to me that general manager Brandon Beane was hoping that LSU’s Brian Thomas would fall to No. 28 in the first round, but the Jaguars took him at No. 23. We don’t know whether Beane tried to trade up to get in position to pick the player who was widely regarded as the best receiver prospect after the undeniable top threesome of Marvin Harrison Jr., Malik Nabers and Rome Odunze, all of whom went in the first nine picks, but I’d guess that he was working the phones pretty hard.’

[sahlensguy]

As Thomas kept falling, I was actually assuming to hear a trade up. Never happened, and apparently, he didn't try.

I the 3rd, when they took Carter, guys like Lil Bro McCaffery, Troy Franklin and Javon Baker were still on the board.

McCaffery is about as good of an athlete as his older brother, a tinge faster, and has only been playing WR for 2 years (and had around 900 yards last year. )
Don't know what scared them off about Franklin
Javon Baker had shown himself capable of being a good intermediate and deep threat.

They were all good hedges against a potential bust of Coleman, or at least adding a potential deep threat. He chose not to do so.

This year, the "he wasn't as high on our board" defense isn't going to cut it.

Good post. Not to mention Beane drafted a 5'8" RB over a 6'7" WR, WHO RAN THE SAME 40 TIME.

[Mad Max]

And the other side of the coin is also true: Andy Reid says "I don't want to find out if Coleman can run routes, but I can imagine Worthy running free ..."

Running free until a DB (like Bishop) that out weighs him by forty pounds lays the wood.

[Woodman]

You will love Ray Davis.

We all thought WR but lucky for the Bills none of us is in charge.

[Woodman]

Running free until a DB (like Bishop) that out weighs him by forty pounds lays the wood.


Nail meet head.

I'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

Especially in the NFL. :D

[Mad Max]

Well, he hasn't used a pick in rounds 1-3 in Buffalo to draft as WR.

I was fine with what they got out of Gabe Davis as a low 4th round pick.
And I'm happy what they had/have in Shakir as a 5th round pick.

But those are rounds where you say, "if he works out, great, if not...its the 4th or 5th round."

But there was a reason he used a 1st round pick to trade for Diggs. Because as you said, his ability to find a difference maker, a go to guy, is a bit spotty.
So he traded for a proven commodity. I maintain that was a wise decision.


Here, he has put the WR corps in a situation where you have to nail the 1st round pick, no ifs, ands or buts.

And I have my doubts as to whether he did.

He could have used the 2nd rounder as trade capital to move up for Brian Thomas, but apparently chose not to.

This don't work out, he has some serious questions to answer. And I maintain, it could be a termination worthy offense.

- - - Updated - - -



Give it to me Horseshack!

I think it’s safe to remove the qualifier.

if this draft doesn’t work both he and McOpi are gone.

Beane knows that which is why he wasn’t sweating the fifth year option on Coleman. He’s either winning us a Super Bowl or he won’t be here long before that fifth year.

[Woodman]

I think it’s safe to remove the qualifier.

if this draft doesn’t work both he and McOpi are gone.

Beane knows that which is why he wasn’t sweating the fifth year option on Coleman. He’s either winning us a Super Bowl or he won’t be here long before that fifth year.


20299

That's what I call putting MUSTARD on the HOT DOG! :10:

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Are we a bunch of teenage girls here? Like a GM does not draft a particular receiver in one particular year, you are fired (dead to me).

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Beane could have traded up for BTJ or taken Coleman at 28 or traded up later for a 2nd wr or just drafted another wr. He did none of that. No conviction in his moves for a wr.
I believe what he said is that he's not giving up pick #60, which is what required to go up there for BTJ. If he's not giving up pick 60, you can bet he's not giving up next year's 1 or Vikings #2 next year. We don't know the result. Strategy wise I don't see an issue with that decision. The difference between BTJ being elite and Coleman being elite is probably less than 5%. But you miss out the entirety of Cole Bishop being elite which is far more than 5%.

[Mad Max]

There are reports his team interviews do not go well. To reporters, talking about Macy's clothes, sharing cookies are fun and genuine stuff. But I know there are management types looking all of those seemingly innocent details and wondering why this guy is not 100% on football in this setting, or lack of self control eating stuff like cookies.

This setting?

It was a post draft introductory press conference (rapport building soft questions being lobbed mostly) not an Xs and Os coach interview.

He was asked about the jacket, he didn’t start talking about it on his own. And after just about the one minute mark the questions started to become football related and he switched from charm mode to serious mode and answered all questions like a professional. Pretty good if you ask me since he literally just became a paid professional the day before.

some football questions and answers from the presser (paraphrased):

Q: Jordan Travis (his FSU QB) said you’re a QBs best friend, how much pride do you take in keep plays alive while the QB is scrambling?

A: it’s a key part, I played with numerous QBs that can keep plays alive, you’re not always open, stay QB friendly, be in his vision, be a big target shield off a defender give him a reliable throw. He’s running for his life from guys that weigh 270 pounds he doesn’t want to get hit and you drop the ball or he has to throw it away. It’s a big thing, I take pride in that. Scramble drills is an actual play.


Q: your wearing number zero you wore four at FSU

A: A number is what you make of it. Number 4 is James Cooks he earned it I’m gonna rock with zero and make my own name with it.

Q: right away X position?

A: learning my playbook and getting like this (crosses fingers) with Josh Allen.

Q: Whys it important to build a great relationship with Josh as you stated?

A: A great QB makes your job easy and you make his job easy. When that’s both easy you’re gonna put a lot of plays together.

[sahlensguy]

I believe what he said is that he's not giving up pick #60, which is what required to go up there for BTJ. If he's not giving up pick 60, you can bet he's not giving up next year's 1 or Vikings #2 next year. We don't know the result. Strategy wise I don't see an issue with that decision. The difference between BTJ being elite and Coleman being elite is probably less than 5%. But you miss out the entirety of Cole Bishop being elite which is far more than 5%.

I don't have a problem with not moving up for Thomas.

That said, he had no conviction in this draft for a wr. The only one he got wasn't good enough for him at 28.

[sahlensguy]

You will love Ray Davis.

Wanna bet?

[Forward_Lateral]

Are we a bunch of teenage girls here? Like a GM does not draft a particular receiver in one particular year, you are fired (dead to me).

You've been here long enough to know the answer to this rhetorical question.

[Forward_Lateral]

I get why some are upset at the Coleman pick. What I don't get is saying "Oh man he's going to suck, what a crappy draft, Beane blew it, etc."

It's the same garbage as when OPI says the Bills won't make the playoffs when they are still in September.

Beane and company are much, much smarter when it comes to talent evaluation than anyone on this message board. They don't watch 10 minutes of youtube clips and then assess a player, like most here do.

Just because they took the guy you didn't want, doesn't mean he will suck. Some of you give yourselves way too much credit in the smarts department.

Just remember when the same people whining about this pick whined about Josh Allen being picked over Josh Rosen.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Wanna bet?

I'm in love with all his names

[Woodman]

Keon Coleman- Josh Allen texted me “You’re the guy I want” (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/keon-coleman-josh-allen-texted-me-youre-the-guy-i-want)

Buffalo traded down twice to move out of the first round and into the top pick of the second round before selecting Keon Coleman to kick off last Friday night’s activities. Coleman said his feeling at the end of his visit to the Bills facility ahead of the draft made him “plan on coming back” and Allen gave him the kind of welcome that makes it clear everyone is happy how things played out early in the draft.

“He texted me the day of and was like, ‘You’re the guy I want (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/try-to-do-something-special-wr-keon-coleman-s-cole-bishop-and-dt-dewayne-carter-embrace-their-first-day-in-buffalo). I watched a lot of receivers and I want to play with you,’” Coleman said, via the team’s website. “And I’ve been saying the same thing. I want to play with the guy that wears number 17. I think he’s a great quarterback, one of the best in the league right now and I would love to be catching passes from him. I’m ready for that.”

[TacklingDummy]

You will love Ray Davis.

We all thought WR but lucky for the Bills none of us is in charge.
Who doesn't love The Kinks?

[sahlensguy]

I'm in love with all his names

He is so many names it's going to take more than one roster spot.

[Mad Max]

Who doesn't love The Kinks?
Great question., hmmm? You really got me!

[sahlensguy]

Great question., hmmm? You really got me!

Plenty didn't love the Kinks. In the 60's, they were actually banned from playing in the United States.

[Mad Max]

Plenty didn't love the Kinks. In the 60's, they were actually banned from playing in the United States.
I’m sure they were considered quite dangerous and vulgar by the Bible thumping lobbyists.

[sahlensguy]

I’m sure they were considered quite dangerous and vulgar by the Bible thumping lobbyists.

It was probably more pressure from promotors and union officials, but yeah. Haha

[TacklingDummy]

Great question., hmmm? You really got me!

Ray's probably not the world's most physical guy

[Mad Max]

Ray's probably not the world's most physical guy

I’m not dumb but I can’t understand that

[Mad Max]

So we get wrapped up in 40 speed or lack thereof.

But isn’t the gauntlet drill a much more realistic model of the actual game?

Spoiler Alert: Keon slayed it

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vrh_xaaflGQ?si=mYc7qWRtdfBJwpz_" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>


As compared to a couple of the other elite prospects. Makes them look slow.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Keon Coleman (<a href="https://twitter.com/FSUFootball?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FSUFootball</a>) reached the fastest speed of group 8 during the gauntlet drill (20.36 mph), despite recording the slowest forty time (4.61s).<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLCombine?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLCombine</a> x <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@nflnetwork</a> <a href="https://t.co/1SioPdOPNU">pic.twitter.com/1SioPdOPNU</a></p>&mdash; Next Gen Stats (@NextGenStats) <a href="https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1764038403962663064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[sahlensguy]

You will love Ray Davis.


Everybody loves Raymond.

[Bill Cody]

The greatest WR of all time Jerry Rice ran a 4.6
If Coleman has half of JR’s work ethic he could be good. That gauntlet thing, whatever that is, is interesting
Translation: let’s wait to declare him a bust until he takes a snap

[TheConsigliere]

I’m sure they were considered quite dangerous and vulgar by the Bible thumping lobbyists.

Probably due to the song Lola which is about a trans.

[Woodman]

Who doesn't love The Kinks?

Let me know and I'll Kink them up. :band:

[ghz in pittsburgh]

In depth analysis of Coleman from cover 1 with film etc. I think it is fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs7F2qdmUJQ

[Turf]

The greatest WR of all time Jerry Rice ran a 4.6
If Coleman has half of JR’s work ethic he could be good. That gauntlet thing, whatever that is, is interesting
Translation: let’s wait to declare him a bust until he takes a snap

Alot of these guys like Rice and Reed had not the fastest track time. But throw them a slant or get them in the open field during a game and no one can catch them. Be it adrenaline, pads, sheer compete whatever it is.

[Mad Max]

In depth analysis of Coleman from cover 1 with film etc. I think it is fair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs7F2qdmUJQ
“It should open up things down the field or up the middle”
”He doesn’t fight the ball”

my favorite quotes from the video

[cookie G]

<iframe width="1010" height="568" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xOA_jjDOCr4" title="Keon Coleman All Targets and Catches 2023 Season" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

what isn't there is...separation. He had one deep ball against Syracuse where the DB might have tripped or was fooled. But on the vast majority of passes, defenders are within a yard or two of him. He certainly makes some contested catches, but he also misses on many of them. Id be surprised if his contested catch rate was even close to 50%. And that doesn't bode well for a guy who has to make a contested catch on nearly every target.

The 4.6 40 shows up on tape. Sorry.

[sahlensguy]

<iframe width="1010" height="568" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xOA_jjDOCr4" title="Keon Coleman All Targets and Catches 2023 Season" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

what isn't there is...separation. He had one deep ball against Syracuse where the DB might have tripped or was fooled. But on the vast majority of passes, defenders are within a yard or two of him. He certainly makes some contested catches, but he also misses on many of them. Id be surprised if his contested catch rate was even close to 50%. And that doesn't bode well for a guy who has to make a contested catch on nearly every target.

The 4.6 40 shows up on tape. Sorry.

His speed shows up during the gauntlet drill. Unfortunately, that's not Josh's ball.

[Mad Max]

His speed shows up during the gauntlet drill. Unfortunately, that's not Josh's ball.
I don’t buy the “Josh doesn’t do that” argument.

He’s only 27, and although he’s not as cerebral as Manning or Young he’s certainly no dummy and therefore will be able to learn/adapt.

I think Brady is the key here, it’s up to him to set up an offense that best utilizes the strengths of all of these weapons.

[sahlensguy]

I don’t buy the “Josh doesn’t do that” argument.

He’s only 27, and although he’s not as cerebral as Manning or Young he’s certainly no dummy and therefore will be able to learn/adapt.

I think Brady is the key here, it’s up to him to set up an offense that best utilizes the strengths of all of these weapons.

I don't think Josh hits those WRs in stride on crosses and slants, which Coleman's gauntlet drill skill showcased. It's just not his ball.

Like the Cover 1 analysts said, Josh likes to throw to receivers who flash open. We've seen that his whole career and there is nothing wrong with that.

Coleman's skillet and Josh's skillet don't mesh. Yet.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

My opinion:

When Josh execute the play as called, protection is good, he is accurate. All of those Cole Beasley connections are evidence.

When 1st couple reads are not there, or protection breaks down (quite often until last year), Josh is into the improvise-mode and really good at getting the ball to those who flash open. This is the kind of delicate balance I don't think he has achieved: there are times that if he stays in the pocket just 1/10 of a second longer, he might have a play there, Brady, Manning are the best in those world. Buy Josh/Mahomes had so much success on the off-script plays, it's hard to find the balance. And you see teams are starting to adapt to defend that style.

[Mad Max]

Another tidbit. His number “0” will be the first time in history that a Bills player has worn that number during the season.

[Turf]

I hope he just isn't all talk and no work. Gut feeling has me a bit concerned but I'll set it aside and watch.

[sukie]

My gut feeling is awesome anticipation.

[Ingtar33]

Like the Cover 1 analysts said, Josh likes to throw to receivers who flash open.

Josh throws so many guys open I'm tired of hearing this bull**** take. I don't know who the guys at cover1 are, but I've seen their stuff and it's amateurs hour over there. there is a lot of Monday morning QBing going on in their videos with the aid of the all 22. they talk like they've never played or coached QB before. and it's irritating to see them quoted so much. the reality is it's physically and mentally impossible to view the game like an all 22.

don't get me wrong. for amateurs they aren't bad. but they're not good enough to be quoted as much as they are.

[sukie]

Josh throws so many guys open I'm tired of hearing this bull**** take. I don't know who the guys at cover1 are, but I've seen their stuff and it's amateurs hour over there. there is a lot of Monday morning QBing going on in their videos with the aid of the all 22. they talk like they've never played or coached QB before. and it's irritating to see them quoted so much. the reality is it's physically and mentally impossible to view the game like an all 22.

don't get me wrong. for amateurs they aren't bad. but they're not good enough to be quoted as much as they are.
The guys at Cover 1 think this is a juvenile take.

[Mad Max]

I hope he just isn't all talk and no work. Gut feeling has me a bit concerned but I'll set it aside and watch.
I’m the exact opposite. I’ve always been a pretty good judge of character and I don’t think that’s ever going to be an issue with this guy.

I don’t know if he’s going to succeed in the league but if he doesn’t it won’t be for lack of effort.

BTW my feeling is automaticically corroborated by the sheer fact that the Bills drafted him. They only draft quality characters individuals.

I highly suspect for example that they dropped Adonai Mitchell completely off their board because they felt he wasn’t one.

[sahlensguy]

I’m the exact opposite. I’ve always been a pretty good judge of character and I don’t think that’s ever going to be an issue with this guy. I don’t know if he’s going to succeed in the league but if he doesn’t it won’t be for lack of effort. BTW my feeling is automaticically corroborated by the sheer fact that the Bills drafted him. They only draft quality characters individuals. I highly suspect for example that they dropped Adonai Mitchell completely off their board because they felt he wasn’t one.

Agreed. Coleman came from nothing and worked for basically everything he's gotten so far. When he talks about earning opportunities he seems sincere.

AD Mitchell may be the steal of the draft, honestly. But it would be only because he's a complete psychopath.

[Mad Max]

Agreed. Coleman came from nothing and worked for basically everything he's gotten so far. When he talks about earning opportunities he seems sincere.

AD Mitchell may be the steal of the draft, honestly. But it would be only because he's a complete psychopath.

I got “crappy human” vibes off him when I listened to AD Mitchell.

Crappy humans almost always turn into a team issue, regardless of talent.

[sahlensguy]

I got “crappy human” vibes off him when I listened to AD Mitchell.

Crappy humans almost always turn into a team issue, regardless of talent.

Yeah no doubt. Sometimes great teams with great locker rooms can absorb a bad character and sometimes it will put them over the top. The colts are not in that situation. It won't end well.

[notacon]

Agreed. Coleman came from nothing and worked for basically everything he's gotten so far. When he talks about earning opportunities he seems sincere.

AD Mitchell may be the steal of the draft, honestly. But it would be only because he's a complete psychopath.

In Mitchell's (slight) defense. Seems like most of his issues arise from him being a Type 1 diabetic.

[Jeff1220]

The rumblings were that he didn't always give full effort both on the field and in terms of managing his diabetes.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/news-when-blood-sugar-s-off-adonai-mitchell-s-rude-texas-wr-s-uncoachable-tagline-gets-clear-justification-nfl-scout-ahead-2024-season

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/04/scouts-raise-concerns-regarding-texas-wr-adonai-mitchells-maturity-health/

https://www.themirror.com/sport/american-football/adonai-mitchell-nfl-draft-scout-457900

It's not that he's diabetic; it's that he doesn't seem to take the best care of it which results in a cranky, less-than-full-effort player.

[sahlensguy]

In Mitchell's (slight) defense. Seems like most of his issues arise from him being a Type 1 diabetic.

There's probably plenty of type 1 diabetics or pro athletes, who are coachable.

All the talent in the world with reports of a bad attitude. I wouldn't have touched him with a 10-ft pool. It probably won't end well for the Colts.

[sahlensguy]

The rumblings were that he didn't always give full effort both on the field and in terms of managing his diabetes.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/news-when-blood-sugar-s-off-adonai-mitchell-s-rude-texas-wr-s-uncoachable-tagline-gets-clear-justification-nfl-scout-ahead-2024-season

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/04/scouts-raise-concerns-regarding-texas-wr-adonai-mitchells-maturity-health/

https://www.themirror.com/sport/american-football/adonai-mitchell-nfl-draft-scout-457900

It's not that he's diabetic; it's that he doesn't seem to take the best care of it which results in a cranky, less-than-full-effort player.

It's easy to excuse his bad attitude on the mismanagement of his diabetes.

But his bad attitude just might be because he thinks he's better than everybody else. Including his coaches.

[Mad Max]

There's probably plenty of type 1 diabetics or pro athletes, who are coachable.

All the talent in the world with reports of a bad attitude. I wouldn't have touched him with a 10-ft pool. It probably won't end well for the Colts.

Patrick Peterson formerly of the Cardinals had it as did Adam Duvall from the Braves that I know of and I know there are a bunch more.

I agree with you on attitude. If someone shows you who they are believe them.

[cas22]

I don't no what all the fuss is about Mitchell, in his college career he had a total of 93 rec for 1400 yards, being he played for Georgia and Texas and was suppose to go to ole Miss .

Mitchell will be a Zay Jones type of WR at his best if he is lucky, If I had to put money on a WR that got drafted this year that was gonna be a star I put it on Ricky Persall.... the kid wasn't surrounded by great talent or have great quarterbacking like Harrison and the duo from LSU.....

thats what I look at, raw talent that stands out on bad teams like Allen coming out..... some of these guys like M Harrison get over hyped because of stats and then in his situation his name also...

[YardRat]

They need to keep this kid as far away from Dawkins as possible. The last thing we need is for him to be another clown show sidekick to the "Shnoman" like McKenzie.

And I've never been impressed with Cover1 either.

[YardRat]

what isn't there is...separation. He had one deep ball against Syracuse where the DB might have tripped or was fooled. But on the vast majority of passes, defenders are within a yard or two of him. He certainly makes some contested catches, but he also misses on many of them. Id be surprised if his contested catch rate was even close to 50%. And that doesn't bode well for a guy who has to make a contested catch on nearly every target.

The 4.6 40 shows up on tape. Sorry.

I'm as skeptical as many with how this kid is going to translate to the next level, but I will say something positive...he may not create separation with speed, but he finds the open spots against zone and creates space (a kind of separation on it's own) with his body. With the league apparently transitioning to more 2 and 3 deep shells that might be a more favorable skill set than blazing speed. And it will probably take him longer to adjust to the better coverage guys in the NFL, not being able to just outrun them.

[justasportsfan]

I'm as skeptical as many with how this kid is going to translate to the next level, but I will say something positive...he may not create separation with speed, but he finds the open spots against zone and creates space (a kind of separation on it's own) with his body. With the league apparently transitioning to more 2 and 3 deep shells that might be a more favorable skill set than blazing speed. And it will probably take him longer to adjust to the better coverage guys in the NFL, not being able to just outrun them.

I am assuming his size and athleticism is what Brady covets in creating mismatches . There also Kincaid. It's up to Allen to exploit those mismatches

[sukie]

They need to keep this kid as far away from Dawkins as possible. The last thing we need is for him to be another clown show sidekick to the "Shnoman" like McKenzie.

And I've never been impressed with Cover1 either.

That guy with the handle “Tardrat” , He kinda blows! ~Cover1

[YardRat]

That guy with the handle “Tardrat” , He kinda blows! ~Cover1

They wish they had my knowledge, expertise and insight. Would be an instant upgrade.

[notacon]

There's probably plenty of type 1 diabetics or pro athletes, who are coachable.

All the talent in the world with reports of a bad attitude. I wouldn't have touched him with a 10-ft pool. It probably won't end well for the Colts.

Probably. So what? I did say it was a "slight" defense.

He's not on my team and that's a good thing.

[Bill Cody]

what isn't there is...separation. He had one deep ball against Syracuse where the DB might have tripped or was fooled. But on the vast majority of passes, defenders are within a yard or two of him. He certainly makes some contested catches, but he also misses on many of them. Id be surprised if his contested catch rate was even close to 50%. And that doesn't bode well for a guy who has to make a contested catch on nearly every target.

The 4.6 40 shows up on tape. Sorry.

I just think we need to manage expectations of how he's going to be used. He's probably not going to be a deep ball threat. He could very well end up being a slot guy. Which is ok, he may be able to create mismatches on slants and other mid range throws. We don't have an obvious direct replacement on the roster for Diggs. But it could be Shakir that is better suited to the outside than Coleman. Coleman seems to have a strong burst so the slot may be where he's a cross between a Kincaid and a Gabe Davis. The 40 time may only matter on deep throws. So maybe he's more of a chain moving red zone monster. I think we'd all take that right now

[sahlensguy]

I just think we need to manage expectations of how he's going to be used. He's probably not going to be a deep ball threat. He could very well end up being a slot guy. Which is ok, he may be able to create mismatches on slants and other mid range throws. We don't have an obvious direct replacement on the roster for Diggs. But it could be Shakir that is better suited to the outside than Coleman. Coleman seems to have a strong burst so the slot may be where he's a cross between a Kincaid and a Gabe Davis. The 40 time may only matter on deep throws. So maybe he's more of a chain moving red zone monster. I think we'd all take that right now

He needs to be developed. It will take time. Probably won't stretch the field and he wasn't used in the slot at Florida. Isn't a great route runner. He's built for a big slot role, but it's not who he was in college. So...

He's not going to mesh with Josh's ability right away. He won't be a Kincaid his rookie year.

I do like the pick and the player, though.

Still don't believe we didn't also pick Johnny Wilson.

[Mad Max]

Interested in some outside (of Billszone and mostly non Bills fans) opinions on Keon before the draft?

Some very interesting thoughts. Such as “slower 40 but fourth fastest on all of his routes”, “tied for second on his go route” -drainbead78

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/s/1cF0PoCTsx

[sahlensguy]

Interested in some outside (of Billszone and mostly non Bills fans) opinions on Keon before the draft?

Some very interesting thoughts. Such as “slower 40 but fourth fastest on all of his routes”, “tied for second on his go route” -drainbead78

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/s/1cF0PoCTsx

If he becomes a good route runner in the NFL, he'll be a fantastic wr.

[notacon]

He needs to be developed. It will take time. Probably won't stretch the field and he wasn't used in the slot at Florida. Isn't a great route runner. He's built for a big slot role, but it's not who he was in college. So...

He's not going to mesh with Josh's ability right away. He won't be a Kincaid his rookie year.

I do like the pick and the player, though.

Still don't believe we didn't also pick Johnny Wilson.

WAAAAAAAY too early to make that kind of declarative statement.

Coleman has just as much chance of "meshing with Josh's ability right away" as he doesn't. Same with having a rookie year like Kincaid's.

[sahlensguy]

WAAAAAAAY too early to make that kind of declarative statement.

Coleman has just as much chance of "meshing with Josh's ability right away" as he doesn't. Same with having a rookie year like Kincaid's.

Just going off the scouting reports. Doesn't creat seperation. Josh likes to throw to targets who flash open. Kincaid gets open.

[Mad Max]

If he becomes a good route runner in the NFL, he'll be a fantastic wr.

Agreed. I said it before, if he fails it won’t be for lack of effort.

Also if he fails overall as a player I’d bet that he’ll still becomes at the very least a reliable RZ jump ball weapon catching 7-8 tuddies a year.

As a matter of fact I’ll go ahead and predict that he catches 7 tuddies THIS YEAR.

[sahlensguy]

Agreed. I said it before, if he fails it won’t be for lack of effort.

Also if he fails overall as a player I’d bet that he’ll still becomes at the very least a reliable RZ jump ball weapon catching 7-8 tuddies a year.

As a matter of fact I’ll go ahead and predict that he catches 7 tuddies THIS YEAR.

I agree. Although 7 tds is a bit optimistic.

Let's not forget that Dalton Kincaid had only 2 tds his rookie year.

[Mad Max]

I agree. Although 7 tds is a bit optimistic.

Let's not forget that Dalton Kincaid had only 2 tds his rookie year.
It’s all down to usage. Sam Laporta caught ten last year his rookie year. Because he’s better than Dalton or because of usage?

I think this year Keon eats in the RZ and Kincaid is going to eat up and down the field.

[sahlensguy]

It’s all down to usage. Sam Laporta caught ten last year his rookie year. Because he’s better than Dalton or because of usage?

I think this year Keon eats in the RZ and Kincaid is going to eat up and down the field.

Usage is important but what's more important is chemistry with Allen.

It's going to take time for these two to get on the same page.

[Mad Max]

Usage is important but what's more important is chemistry with Allen.

It's going to take time for these two to get on the same page.
I like our chances with chemistry with a full off-season and a fully baked as opposed to cobbled together Brady offense.

7 tuddies. You heard it here first. Don’t forget to pull up this post after it happens. I want my credit after it’s earned!

[TacklingDummy]

Agreed. I said it before, if he fails it won’t be for lack of effort.

Also if he fails overall as a player I’d bet that he’ll still becomes at the very least a reliable RZ jump ball weapon catching 7-8 tuddies a year.

As a matter of fact I’ll go ahead and predict that he catches 7 tuddies THIS YEAR.

I'm going to predict 11. They are going to make the Diggs trade look even better.

[DetoxTent]

I'm going to predict 11. They are going to make the Diggs trade look even better.

Last season:

Diggs = 8
Davis = 7
Kincaid = 2
Shakir = 2
Cook = 4
Knox = 2
4 others with 1

11, even 7, is pie in the sky. You both have seen how slow the Bills are at working rookies in. Whether it be WRs and RBs or defensive ends. The only reason Elam and Benford were put in so fast were injuries to starters.

[notacon]

Just going off the scouting reports. Doesn't creat seperation. Josh likes to throw to targets who flash open. Kincaid gets open.

Again....waaaaaaay to premature.

Josh needs a WR who can go up and get contested throws.

[TacklingDummy]

Last season:

Diggs = 8
Davis = 7
Kincaid = 2
Shakir = 2
Cook = 4
Knox = 2
4 others with 1

11, even 7, is pie in the sky. You both have seen how slow the Bills are at working rookies in. Whether it be WRs and RBs or defensive ends. The only reason Elam and Benford were put in so fast were injuries to starters.
I predicted 11 to match Diggs career high.

I'm going to hope for 11 or more

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Man, we are still talking about this "can't get separation" stuff. Let's wait to see in camp at least.

There are many ways to get open, based on personal traits. I still say, at the outside, Coleman can look up to DHop how he gets open. Like the instruction video here (around 6:30 mark). There aren't many DBs can match up to Coleman's 215 lb size and strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XXD3B3MHzA

[Mad Max]

I predicted 11 to match Diggs career high.

I'm going to hope for 11 or more

You’re trying to be funny obviously but we did lose our previous top two pass catchers…those balls are going to go somewhere.

They didn’t draft their new number one to not throw him the ball.

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t catch at least seven.

[TacklingDummy]

You’re trying to be funny obviously but we did lose our previous top two pass catchers…those balls are going to go somewhere.

They didn’t draft their new number one to not throw him the ball.

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t catch at least seven.

Nope not trying to be funny. Trying to be hopeful and 11 TDs hopefully would shut up the Diggs trade haters.

[sahlensguy]

Man, we are still talking about this "can't get separation" stuff. Let's wait to see in camp at least.

There are many ways to get open, based on personal traits. I still say, at the outside, Coleman can look up to DHop how he gets open. Like the instruction video here (around 6:30 mark). There aren't many DBs can match up to Coleman's 215 lb size and strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XXD3B3MHzA

Can Coleman become DHop? Well I guess so since anything is possible but they were two different receivers coming out of college.

Here is DHop s scouting report. It isn't like Coleman's report...


Solid route-runner used in the short, intermediate, and deep games, who has flexibility to avoid corners in zone and the quick feet to separate on hitches, comebacks, and other cuts. Does a nice job creating separation and deceiving defensive backs with head fakes and quick moves. Will threaten the top of defenses with NFL-quality straight-line speed

I think you need a comp of a receiver who is more similar to Coleman coming out.

[cookie G]

Man, we are still talking about this "can't get separation" stuff. Let's wait to see in camp at least.

There are many ways to get open, based on personal traits. I still say, at the outside, Coleman can look up to DHop how he gets open. Like the instruction video here (around 6:30 mark). There aren't many DBs can match up to Coleman's 215 lb size and strength.


Still talking about "can't get separation" stuff?

Again, I posted a vid of each of his catches and targets in 2023 (post 137). Im...not seeing the separation, except in a blown coverage/missing assignment situation.

A training video doesn't change that. I hope he gets better. Reaching out to Andre Reed was a good first step. Because gaining separation and more importantly, making the contested catch, won't be easier in the NFL.

[cookie G]

I think you need a comp of a receiver who is more similar to Coleman coming out.

Jerry Rice!!!! I swear, if I had a dollar every time Jerry Rice is brought up whenever a WR with a poor 40 tie is mentioned...I'd own 25% of the Bills.

But anyway...on the "good" comp..Im surprised Anquan Bolidn isn't brought up;\

-about the same size;
-Boldin actually ran a slower 40 time;
-same school;
-same number

That should make you happy. If he has Boldin's career, everyone would be happy.

On the bad side, a guy who's NFL.com profile I posted earlier.

N'keal Harry, who's on his 3rd team.

Unfortunately, there are many more Harry's than there are Boldin's, or Rice's.

[Mad Max]

Jerry Rice!!!! I swear, if I had a dollar every time Jerry Rice is brought up whenever a WR with a poor 40 tie is mentioned...I'd own 25% of the Bills.

But anyway...on the "good" comp..Im surprised Anquan Bolidn isn't brought up;\

-about the same size;
-Boldin actually ran a slower 40 time;
-same school;
-same number

That should make you happy. If he has Boldin's career, everyone would be happy.

On the bad side, a guy who's NFL.com profile I posted earlier.

N'keal Harry, who's on his 3rd team.

Unfortunately, there are many more Harry's than there are Boldin's, or Rice's.
:cold:

please let’s not speak this comparison into existence…let’s delete it from our collective lexicon

[DetoxTent]

cookie, thank you for always bringing facts and common sense to the discussions here.

[cookie G]

:cold:

please let’s not speak this comparison into existence…let’s delete it from our collective lexicon

I posted Harry's Lance Zeurline profile in post 97.

[DetoxTent]

Again....waaaaaaay to premature.
Josh needs a WR who can go up and get contested throws.

Everyone wanted to ride Gabe Davis out on a rail. Part of me wonders if anyone will be openly yearning to get him back late in the season.

[cookie G]

cookie, thank you for always bringing facts and common sense to the discussions here.

Actually, they drafted 3 guys I had in a mock or two...Bishop, Van Pran-Granger and Solomon.

But the Coleman pick....and the direction of going with bigger...for the sake of going with bigger...idk. For a number of reasons.

I just see it as they had guys available who could make the contested catch AND have an element of explosiveness to them...Legette and Brian Thomas are the 2 I'm thinking of. Mitchell was there too, but if he's really a butthead, I can understand the concern.

I know what Beane said about trading up for Thomas and not wanting to use pick 60, I can get that.

But he also has 2 number 2 picks next year via the Diggs trade. It made all the sense in the world to use the Diggs trade and invest it into his next WR. Even if they needed to throw in a 4th or 5th or something.

I just felt like we settled. And I stand firm...if these other guys blossom and Coleman busts, it is a termination worthy offense.

Beane couldn't afford to screw this up.

So here's hoping Coleman isBoldin, Part II

[sahlensguy]

Actually, they drafted 3 guys I had in a mock or two...Bishop, Van Pran-Granger and Solomon.

But the Coleman pick....and the direction of going with bigger...for the sake of going with bigger...idk. For a number of reasons.

I just see it as they had guys available who could make the contested catch AND have an element of explosiveness to them...Legette and Brian Thomas are the 2 I'm thinking of. Mitchell was there too, but if he's really a butthead, I can understand the concern.

I know what Beane said about trading up for Thomas and not wanting to use pick 60, I can get that.

But he also has 2 number 2 picks next year via the Diggs trade. It made all the sense in the world to use the Diggs trade and invest it into his next WR. Even if they needed to throw in a 4th or 5th or something.

I just felt like we settled. And I stand firm...if these other guys blossom and Coleman busts, it is a termination worthy offense.

Beane couldn't afford to screw this up.

So here's hoping Coleman isBoldin, Part II

Boldin is a good comp. Here's hoping!

Why Beane didn't hedge his bet on Coleman and draft a second wr was a mistake, imo. Instead we take a 5'8", slow RB??

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I posted the training video just to show sample of different way to get open. There are others. Whether Coleman is N'Keal Harry or DHop or something in between, I don't know. Frankly nobody knows.

Speaking of Beane should be fired because if Coleman does not pan out is ... Sorry I don't want to print the words here. Beane is well regarded as one of the top executives in NFL. To pin his tenure in Buffalo on one pick is just ... Well just say Pegula will never do that and he has more comon sense than some of us here.

What if Coleman is NOT Boldin but Bishop becomes an Ed Reed, or Carter becomes a Chris Jones, or Van Pran-Granger becomes a Jason Kelce? I don't think next year's #2 is enough to get up to get Brian Thomas Jr. You just have to give up pick 60 - other GMs are not stupid; they want top 100 picks in this year's draft and they want us to over pay. Hindsight is 20-20. At this point, I'd take the odds that the collective contributions of Coleman, Bishp, Carter, and Van Pran-Granger in the next 4 years to be better than the contribution of Thomas Jr.

[sukie]

Everyone wanted to ride Gabe Davis out on a rail. Part of me wonders if anyone will be openly yearning to get him back late in the season.
No one will. Including you. Any crappy WR can drop balls. His toe drags were cool 3 years ago. His 4 TD 13 second game performance was most ecxcellent. The rest was rather disappointing.

[sukie]

Actually, they drafted 3 guys I had in a mock or two...Bishop, Van Pran-Granger and Solomon.

But the Coleman pick....and the direction of going with bigger...for the sake of going with bigger...idk. For a number of reasons.

I just see it as they had guys available who could make the contested catch AND have an element of explosiveness to them...Legette and Brian Thomas are the 2 I'm thinking of. Mitchell was there too, but if he's really a butthead, I can understand the concern.

I know what Beane said about trading up for Thomas and not wanting to use pick 60, I can get that.

But he also has 2 number 2 picks next year via the Diggs trade. It made all the sense in the world to use the Diggs trade and invest it into his next WR. Even if they needed to throw in a 4th or 5th or something.

I just felt like we settled. And I stand firm...if these other guys blossom and Coleman busts, it is a termination worthy offense.

Beane couldn't afford to screw this up.

So here's hoping Coleman isBoldin, Part II

Big is being tried because small ball failed to work. Mck Stephenson hardy isabella all could fit comfortably in the back seat of a mini cooper. Hands. That is what Coleman has. Kincaid like hands. Route running creates separation. Not 40 time.

sure coulda traded up but then with the cap and all… Beane saved like 3 mil on the top picks rookie contract. No one knows if Thomas is truly a stud after 1 good season in college.

I just want good hands.

[Mad Max]

Boldin is a good comp. Here's hoping!

Why Beane didn't hedge his bet on Coleman and draft a second wr was a mistake, imo. Instead we take a 5'8", slow RB??
I hope Coleman and Davis turn out better than Leggette, Estimé and Guerendo.

I hope my opinions on their relative value turn out to be laughably wrong.

[cookie G]

Big is being tried because small ball failed to work. Mck Stephenson hardy isabella all could fit comfortably in the back seat of a mini cooper. Hands. That is what Coleman has. Kincaid like hands. Route running creates separation. Not 40 time.

sure coulda traded up but then with the cap and all… Beane saved like 3 mil on the top picks rookie contract. No one knows if Thomas is truly a stud after 1 good season in college.

I just want good hands.

hmmm.

When Beane got here, he was peddling the big WR line. WRs who were endzone targets, who could block for Shady McCoy

Thus, Andre Holmes;
Thus, not only signing Kelvin Benjamin, but trading for him.

The result...

2018,
dead last in passing;
31st in scoring;
a whopping 267 points scored.

It couldn't have failed any more spectacular. And it didn't get any better until he brought in more speed with Beasely and John Brown. He HAD to. Because he couldn't continue with his plan A. And it didn't take off until he traded for Diggs.

So when I hear the talk of getting bigger...I'm pretty leery...and justifiably so.

[sukie]

hmmm.

When Beane got here, he was peddling the big WR line. WRs who were endzone targets, who could block for Shady McCoy

Thus, Andre Holmes;
Thus, not only signing Kelvin Benjamin, but trading for him.

The result...

2018,
dead last in passing;
31st in scoring;
a whopping 267 points scored.

It couldn't have failed any more spectacular. And it didn't get any better until he brought in more speed with Beasely and John Brown. He HAD to. Because he couldn't continue with his plan A. And it didn't take off until he traded for Diggs.

So when I hear the talk of getting bigger...I'm pretty leery...and justifiably so.
Uh, you forget a little thing called Josh and his maturity after 2018. Naturally we are both speculating at this point.

[DetoxTent]

Post 175. He caught second most TDs in 2023 while not being targeted. Wait and see how he does in Jacksonville. You may eat those words by this time next season. Let's wait and see. The Bills stopped targeting him.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Post 175. He caught second most TDs in 2023 while not being targeted. Wait and see how he does in Jacksonville. You may eat those words by this time next season. Let's wait and see. The Bills stopped targeting him.
when your catch rate is as low as his, it's easy to see why.

hell, look at the end of the eagle game when he had a chance to win it. not a drop i know. but likely a mental error on his part

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

hmmm.

When Beane got here, he was peddling the big WR line. WRs who were endzone targets, who could block for Shady McCoy

Thus, Andre Holmes;
Thus, not only signing Kelvin Benjamin, but trading for him.

The result...

2018,
dead last in passing;
31st in scoring;
a whopping 267 points scored.

It couldn't have failed any more spectacular. And it didn't get any better until he brought in more speed with Beasely and John Brown. He HAD to. Because he couldn't continue with his plan A. And it didn't take off until he traded for Diggs.

So when I hear the talk of getting bigger...I'm pretty leery...and justifiably so.
comparing 2018 to now is a false equivalency

Josh wasn't even supposed to start. completely different scenario.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Uh, you forget a little thing called Josh and his maturity after 2018. Naturally we are both speculating at this point.

Well another thing is Joe Brady. We already hear that Joe wants to put more of his offense into the playbook.

In Carolina, Brady was running Rhule's offense according to most accounts. So people have been looking into Brady's LSU offense and his roots with Peyton. You kind of see what kind of WRs Brady had and maybe he prefers. Seems like what we are going. I'd imagine the change of direction has Josh's approval.

When Benjamin came to the Bills, he was old and at the end of his career. I'm not going to say that is a measuring stick for WRs who work with Allen. Also, if you truly believe Allen is one of the top QBs in this game, maybe one of the all time great like we seem to believe, then he should be able to work with all kinds of WRs and use their strength. It might be a good challenge to him to improve his game that way. The bottom line is someone said earlier, what the Bills had - mainly #1 and #2 of Diggs and Davis -- is not working in terms of getting over the hump. I don't get people upset about losing Diggs (including media folks) because he is no longer a so-called "separator". Teams were playing man against us in recent years and had great success against Allen whereas just a couple of years ago, it was death sentence for those defenses. Time for a change and try a different direction.

[cas22]

Jerry Rice!!!! I swear, if I had a dollar every time Jerry Rice is brought up whenever a WR with a poor 40 tie is mentioned...I'd own 25% of the Bills.

But anyway...on the "good" comp..Im surprised Anquan Bolidn isn't brought up;\

-about the same size;
-Boldin actually ran a slower 40 time;
-same school;
-same number

That should make you happy. If he has Boldin's career, everyone would be happy.

On the bad side, a guy who's NFL.com profile I posted earlier.

N'keal Harry, who's on his 3rd team.

Unfortunately, there are many more Harry's than there are Boldin's, or Rice's.

I agree 100% of everything you have said, but lets remember that Colemans biggest attribute is his hands, all these other WR you have compared him to were similar except there hands, they hand good hands but Coleman has hands we haven't seen yet, gonna be interesting to see what he can bring to the table.

[cas22]

hmmm.

When Beane got here, he was peddling the big WR line. WRs who were endzone targets, who could block for Shady McCoy

Thus, Andre Holmes;
Thus, not only signing Kelvin Benjamin, but trading for him.

The result...

2018,
dead last in passing;
31st in scoring;
a whopping 267 points scored.

It couldn't have failed any more spectacular. And it didn't get any better until he brought in more speed with Beasely and John Brown. He HAD to. Because he couldn't continue with his plan A. And it didn't take off until he traded for Diggs.

So when I hear the talk of getting bigger...I'm pretty leery...and justifiably so.

thats really not the reality in 2018, yes Bean traded for Kelvin but lets remember that in 2018 there were 4 o-lineman that wasn't on the roster in 2019.. in fact the only player to start in 2019 besides Allen was Dawkins so that tells everything you need to no.




<tbody>
Pos
Player
Age
Yrs
GS
Summary of Player Stats
Drafted (tm/rnd/yr)



Offensive Starters







QB
Josh Allen (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm)
22
Rook
11
169 for 320, 2,074 yards, 10 td, 12 int, & 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 td



RB
LeSean McCoy (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoLe01.htm)
30
9
13
161 rushes for 514 yards, 3 td, & 34 catches for 238 yards and 0 td



FB
Patrick DiMarco (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DiMaPa00.htm)
29
6
5
1 rush for 9 yards, 0 td, & 3 catches for 62 yards and 0 td



WR
Kelvin Benjamin (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm)
27
4
10
23 catches for 354 yards, 1 td



WR
Zay Jones (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneZa00.htm)
23
1
15
56 catches for 652 yards, 7 td, & 1 rush for yards and 0 td



TE
Charles Clay (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClayCh00.htm)
29
7
12
21 catches for 184 yards, 0 td



LT
Dion Dawkins (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DawkDi00.htm)
24
1
16
1 fumble recovered



LG
Vlad Ducasse (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DucaVl20.htm)
31
8
9




C
Russell Bodine (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BodiRu00.htm)
26
4
10




RG
John Miller (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MillJo04.htm)
25
3
15




RT
Jordan Mills (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MillJo02.htm)

</tbody>

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I also want to point out the distinction between #1 receiver and X receiver. To me #1 receiver means the best receiver on a team whereas X receiver is more technical in terms of what they are asked to do, like working on boundary for the most part, more responsible for blocking etc. Often #1 = X receiver on a team. You can argue for the Bills, #1 receiver was Diggs whereas Davis was the X receiver. And you see Davis often out snapped Diggs because Diggs is more suited for blocking etc.

In that sense, I agree with quite a lot of people in the media that Coleman is a replacement for Davis, likely a better version. Can he be a #1 on this Bills team? We don't know. And I hope he's not right now because it means this guy is the best WR on the Bills team without even playing one single down in NFL. Now who is the #1 receiver on this Bills team? By default, it is Shakir because Diggs is gone and other guys have not played a down for the Bills. That's where the uncertainty comes in. Is Shakir better than Diggs? Career wise, definitely a NO. In the latest sample, like last season, you see Diggs started hot but you can say Shakir out performed him late in the season, including the playoffs. Projecting forward for 2024 season, the Bills obviously decided Diggs is not going to be that much better than Shakir or whoever they signed and drafted.

Bottom line is if you expect Coleman to produce more than Davis from the X receiver role, you may feel better about this pick.

[Forward_Lateral]

I also want to point out the distinction between #1 receiver and X receiver. To me #1 receiver means the best receiver on a team whereas X receiver is more technical in terms of what they are asked to do, like working on boundary for the most part, more responsible for blocking etc. Often #1 = X receiver on a team. You can argue for the Bills, #1 receiver was Diggs whereas Davis was the X receiver. And you see Davis often out snapped Diggs because Diggs is more suited for blocking etc.

In that sense, I agree with quite a lot of people in the media that Coleman is a replacement for Davis, likely a better version. Can he be a #1 on this Bills team? We don't know. And I hope he's not right now because it means this guy is the best WR on the Bills team without even playing one single down in NFL. Now who is the #1 receiver on this Bills team? By default, it is Shakir because Diggs is gone and other guys have not played a down for the Bills. That's where the uncertainty comes in. Is Shakir better than Diggs? Career wise, definitely a NO. In the latest sample, like last season, you see Diggs started hot but you can say Shakir out performed him late in the season, including the playoffs. Projecting forward for 2024 season, the Bills obviously decided Diggs is not going to be that much better than Shakir or whoever they signed and drafted.

Bottom line is if you expect Coleman to produce more than Davis from the X receiver role, you may feel better about this pick.
I think a lot of people will be surprised by Samuel's production

[notacon]

Nope not trying to be funny. Trying to be hopeful and 11 TDs hopefully would shut up the Diggs trade haters.
What REALLY matters is how many TD's in the playoffs.

It cannot be repeated enough that Stefon Diggs was **** in the playoffs, ESPECIALLY in every one of the four loses during his time here.


In NINE playoff games Diggs had TWO TD's.

In the four playoff losses, Diggs had ZERO TD's. His stats for those four games is beyond ****ty.

35 targets
16 catches (45.71%)
140 yards
35 yards average per game
ZERO TD


In Diggs full seven year career, and in 14 total playoff games, he has only FOUR TD catches.

For comparison sake, Travis Kelce in his nine year career, and 22 playoff games has NINETEEN TD catches. 81.7% catch %. 86.6 average yards per game.

Coleman has the opportunity to be the big target that can come down with contested balls, as Josh has never had.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I think a lot of people will be surprised by Samuel's production
I had an interesting conversation with a couple of my friends recently on Samuel. First look back on the 2019 season. Allen had a meh rookie season. We all saw Benjamin couldn't run any more so he's gone. Zay Jones would be traded mid season as well. Beane brought in John Brown who he courted before, and Beasley. So the top WRs were Brown, Beasley, Robert Foster, Isaiah McKenzie. Brown, Beasley, Foster all had (near) their career highs that year. That's when I became a believer of Allen. But before Brown and Beasley were brought in, who did we have in WRs?

Now in 2024, after Diggs trade, you can ask the same question - who do we have? One of my friends compared Samuel to Brown signing in 2019. I don't like Samuel's injury history, thus not a reliable target in my mind, but if he stays healthy, it would not shock me he gets his career high. We need some luck, just like we had with John Brown, getting a healthy year from Samuel.

Unlike 2019, we do have Shakir, our home grown talent. If he gets Beasley's production in 2019 this year, I'd actually be disappointed. Samuel, like Brown and Beasley, is a veteran in NFL and known ceiling. Receivers with untapped talent/ceiling are generally not available in the FA market. At this point I don't see Shakir goes the way of Zay Jones to be traded away mid-season.

[cas22]

I think a lot of people will be surprised by Samuel's production

not me, I expect a pro bowl performance with Allen spinning the rock, the guy didn't have crap throwing to him in Washington.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Allen in his previous life:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-OAAAOSwv~NlBzf0/s-l1600.jpg

[YardRat]

Still talking about "can't get separation" stuff?

Again, I posted a vid of each of his catches and targets in 2023 (post 137). Im...not seeing the separation, except in a blown coverage/missing assignment situation.

A training video doesn't change that. I hope he gets better. Reaching out to Andre Reed was a good first step. Because gaining separation and more importantly, making the contested catch, won't be easier in the NFL.

I think you're under-estimating how much he did get separation. It's more than a blown coverage or two.

[Gibby 2.0]

I like his personality. IF he has the work ethic to with it, these next few years may even be more fun than the last few years.

[notacon]

I like his personality. IF he has the work ethic to with it, these next few years may even be more fun than the last few years.

This is very encouraging.....

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[Gibby 2.0]

This is very encouraging.....

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If he stays healthy and keeps this up, he may be the steal of this draft class. This kid's personality is infectious and I sooooo want him to succeed and even better I think he can

[cas22]

I also want to point out the distinction between #1 receiver and X receiver. To me #1 receiver means the best receiver on a team whereas X receiver is more technical in terms of what they are asked to do, like working on boundary for the most part, more responsible for blocking etc. Often #1 = X receiver on a team. You can argue for the Bills, #1 receiver was Diggs whereas Davis was the X receiver. And you see Davis often out snapped Diggs because Diggs is more suited for blocking etc.

there really isn't a #1 WR, the Media has created that animal, sure most teams have a WR who has better production that gets labeled #! but in reality you want all your play makers to be equal,

I think we got a taste of this the last 10 games last year where Allens production came equally from the weaons he had, the previous years Diggs name was called on 65% of the passing plays, Diggs better get use to it because in Houston he might be the 3rd best WR.





iIn that sense, I agree with quite a lot of people in the media that Coleman is a replacement for Davis, likely a better version. Can he be a #1 on this Bills team? We don't know. And I hope he's not right now because it means this guy is the best WR on the Bills team without even playing one single down in NFL. Now who is the #1 receiver on this Bills team? By default, it is Shakir because Diggs is gone and other guys have not played a down for the Bills. That's where the uncertainty comes in. Is Shakir better than Diggs? Career wise, definitely a NO. In the latest sample, like last season, you see Diggs started hot but you can say Shakir out performed him late in the season, including the playoffs. Projecting forward for 2024 season, the Bills obviously decided Diggs is not going to be that much better than Shakir or whoever they signed and drafted.

Bottom line is if you expect Coleman to produce more than Davis from the X receiver role, you may feel better about this pick.

[cas22]

I also want to point out the distinction between #1 receiver and X receiver. To me #1 receiver means the best receiver on a team whereas X receiver is more technical in terms of what they are asked to do, like working on boundary for the most part, more responsible for blocking etc. Often #1 = X receiver on a team. You can argue for the Bills, #1 receiver was Diggs whereas Davis was the X receiver. And you see Davis often out snapped Diggs because Diggs is more suited for blocking etc.

there really isn't a #1 WR, the Media has created that animal, sure most teams have a WR who has better production that gets labeled #! but in reality you want all your play makers to be equal,






iIn that sense, I agree with quite a lot of people in the media that Coleman is a replacement for Davis, likely a better version. Can he be a #1 on this Bills team? We don't know. And I hope he's not right now because it means this guy is the best WR on the Bills team without even playing one single down in NFL. Now who is the #1 receiver on this Bills team? By default, it is Shakir because Diggs is gone and other guys have not played a down for the Bills. That's where the uncertainty comes in. Is Shakir better than Diggs? Career wise, definitely a NO. In the latest sample, like last season, you see Diggs started hot but you can say Shakir out performed him late in the season, including the playoffs. Projecting forward for 2024 season, the Bills obviously decided Diggs is not going to be that much better than Shakir or whoever they signed and drafted.

Bottom line is if you expect Coleman to produce more than Davis from the X receiver role, you may feel better about this pick.

II think we got a taste of this the last 10 games last year where Allens production came equally from the weaons he had, the previous years Diggs name was called on 65% of the passing plays, Diggs better get use to it because in Houston he might be the 3rd best WR.

[Oaf]

Is Samuel or Shakir more akin to Diggs in their game? (assuming Coleman takes Davis' role and the 3rd guy plays the slot)

[ghz in pittsburgh]

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/bills-rookie-wr-keon-coleman-much-more-than-the-goofball-we-see-on-viral-videos

Another Coleman article. Looked like the kid has good work ethics throughout his college career. We don't know his ceiling but I feel Beane and the scouting staff probably feel his floor might be an effective "big slot", a fact mentioned by many who compared him to Mike Williams under Sean Peyton's Saints. That is also backed by his short area quickness physical traits.

[Woodman]

Did we just strike gold?