View Full Version : Here's a BIG part of our problem this year:
Against Denver, the Bills attempted eight first-down rushes and gained just 19 yards. (2.4 ypc) The Broncos ran 18 times on first down and gained 111 yards. (6.2 ypc)
Creemoredrinker
09-24-2002, 09:19 AM
I agree we should stay with the run longer, but the OL was just NOT making holes. How long do we stick with the run when we have success throwing the ball?
Gotta make some holes then!
Sooner or later, Drew's gonna have an off day or the D is gonna get the best of us passing in a game or two. We have to quit making excuses and start finding a way to make it work.
How 'bout this Burns guy? I really know little bout him. Sometimes rookies are there waiting to make an impact and do when given the opportunity.
casdhf
09-24-2002, 09:22 AM
Ya mean we have problems stopping the run? :rolleyes:
:D
LtBillsFan66
09-24-2002, 09:27 AM
Joe Burns??? Are you kidding? Only if Henry, Bryson and Morris get injured.
Creemoredrinker
09-24-2002, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Gotta make some holes then!....
How 'bout this Burns guy? I really know little bout him. Sometimes rookies are there waiting to make an impact and do when given the opportunity.
:moon:
Geez, you are an alarmist aren't you?
Changing our RB will NOT do the job. The OL has to make holes. They have only played 3 games together and I still do NOT think Ruben has done much. They need time to gell so rotating the OL around is NOT the answer either.
Patience, my friend. Patience is the answer.
One more game of 14 carries for 29 yards and I'll be ready to call Huntley back up and give him a shot if necessary!
I'm tellin' ya, this could be the defining game for Henry this week.
Creemoredrinker
09-24-2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
One more game of 14 carries for 29 yards and I'll be ready to call Huntley back up and give him a shot if necessary!
I'm tellin' ya, this could be the defining game for Henry this week.
:calm:
We need the HOLES (not ho's). Leave TH alone. Concentrate on the Hole Making.
LtBillsFan66
09-24-2002, 09:36 AM
Patience is right. Did you totally forget about the Jets game? It's more scheme than talent. We were focused on runnings against the Jets and Henry answered the call. Vikes and Broncos have strong run defenses, so we focused on the passing game.
The fumbling problem is another story. If he continues to fumble, than we have to look to someone else. But I'm not going to judge yardage against two tough teams.
clumping platelets
09-24-2002, 09:37 AM
Huntley signed with the Lions last week :rolleyes:
casdhf
09-24-2002, 09:38 AM
We're not gonna run 25 times when we're always having to come from behind.
Buffarama
09-24-2002, 09:41 AM
I blame the offensive line coach. He's in over his head. He has no experience in the pro level. The thing that bothers me the most, is we just hired a defensive line coach to take over for Levra, who is as green as the O-line coach.
I credit Gilbride with much of the Bills success on offense, as well as Drew obviously. Gilbride is a veteran coach.
If we had a good line coach we might be formidable.
Jerry Grey is new as a defensive coordinator as well. Too many young coaches in here. That small extra edge is making the difference in these games.
Yeah, that's exactly right cas. I think we'll go up in this game. IMO all we have to do is put Clements on Booker MtM and give him some double help from the available Ss, and we'll be fine. That'll force them to rely almost exclusively on Thomas. That could be bad for us. But I'm thinkin' if that's all our front 7 has to worry about, we'll be in good stead. Then we'll go up by 14 or 17 and can start trying to run the ball.
LOL Creemore!
CP, yeah, JK anyway. I'm just saying try anything if Henry can't run this Sunday. It's one thing to have a 20 carries for 70 yards day. That isn't good either by starting RB standards. But to consistently post around 30 yards on a 2.0 +/- avg. is so bad that it only questions whether or not your RB is any good. Ya can't blame the OL for everything.
I don't think Gilbride is doing anything special either. Think about it. We've been in games largely and simply b/c Drew has been red hot. It certainly hasn't been b/c of the play-calling or scheming or adjusting other than to quit running and pass only.
Big deal. Any moron could make those calls. Gilbride did a couple of good things by trying a few sweeps and one or two other things on Sunday. But again, our play calling certainly didn't show me that we have a mastermind at O.C.
I don't think Drew's gonna have a very tough time on Sunday. Chicago has a good front 4 and Urlacher. Last year they rocked on D b/c 10 of the teams they played were 6-10 or worse or around there. They lost to the best teams they played. Their pass D isn't great and Drew should pick it apart pretty well.
The key will be keeping the pressure off of Drew. Maybe a few two back sets to pick up a blitz or take care of Urlacher.
I'd like to see Clements on Booker most of the day w/ help.
34-17 Bills!!!
GO BILLS!!!
Why would anyone even think @ bringing Huntley back?
He's a stiff..always has been, always will be.
Earthquake Enyart
09-24-2002, 10:15 AM
TH is a straight ahead, slashing runner. If he isn't getting any yards, the holes are not there. Simple as that.
The problem Sunday will be the Bear LB's. Can any of these fat ass OL go out and get to Urhlacher? These LB's are also very active in the short passing game. Go deep!
Michael82
09-24-2002, 04:20 PM
The BIG problem with Travis Henry is that he is not getting the holes and they are running him the wrong way! He is not a RB that is good around the corner. He is a power runner that is made to run thru the middle. Did you all notice that he does the best when they pound him thru the middle, thru the tackles? That's what we have to do with Henry...Just pound him all day! This around the corner sweeps crap is not working. With how big our OL is, it's made to shove the RBs up their throats. That's what we need to start doing. Run Henry between the tackles!!!
Creemoredrinker
09-24-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Mike32282
The BIG problem with Travis Henry is that he is not getting the holes and they are running him the wrong way! He is not a RB that is good around the corner. He is a power runner that is made to run thru the middle. Did you all notice that he does the best when they pound him thru the middle, thru the tackles? That's what we have to do with Henry...Just pound him all day! This around the corner sweeps crap is not working. With how big our OL is, it's made to shove the RBs up their throats. That's what we need to start doing. Run Henry between the tackles!!!
But, this is NOT the team to run up the middle against. The Bears, even without Ted, are too strong up the middle. The outside running should be left for Bryson.
I do NOT know whether our OL can get to BU. TT will be hard pressed to do so. Could RB, the fattest of the fat asses in my opinion, make the holes necessary on Sunday? I hope so.
By the way, I expect that by mid-season we will be doing our share of running behind MW.
:violin:
mchurchfie
09-24-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Mike32282
The BIG problem with Travis Henry is that he is not getting the holes and they are running him the wrong way! He is not a RB that is good around the corner. He is a power runner that is made to run thru the middle. Did you all notice that he does the best when they pound him thru the middle, thru the tackles? That's what we have to do with Henry...Just pound him all day! This around the corner sweeps crap is not working. With how big our OL is, it's made to shove the RBs up their throats. That's what we need to start doing. Run Henry between the tackles!!!
That is exactly what I have been trying to say. he is a slashing, up the middle running back. These slow developing outside runs are terrible..especially when they tried it against one of the fastest linebacking corps in the Broncos....Booooo on you KG! Run him up behind big Mike (375 LBS), lets get physical and make a statement, screw the finesse plays.
mchurchfie
09-24-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Gotta make some holes then!
Sooner or later, Drew's gonna have an off day or the D is gonna get the best of us passing in a game or two. We have to quit making excuses and start finding a way to make it work.
How 'bout this Burns guy? I really know little bout him. Sometimes rookies are there waiting to make an impact and do when given the opportunity.
I like Joe Burns, though he would probably get Drew killed with his blocking. I watched him in the preseason and he ran hard between the tackles and most always had a positive run... I was very impressed with him.
RedEyE
09-24-2002, 05:45 PM
The problem is carries. 19 carries is not nearly enough to control the game and will almost never amount to enough yardage. Wear down the defense with 25 -30 carries a game. I keep getting the same feeling that Gilbride is panicking and immediately turns to the pass for help. The Bills need the run to keep the D off the field and control the clock. The elimination of stupid OL penalties would definitly help, but my recommendation is to get Larry Centers back in the mix and assist the OL with opening wider holes.
WCoastFin
09-24-2002, 05:49 PM
T Henry needs to go back to sharing the load in order for the bills to have SOME success running the ball.
colin
09-24-2002, 06:02 PM
We should move towards a more direct, one move counter and straight dives off tackle running style. We are clearly gonna pass as much as we can, so don't worry about the O. Our line will get better, they are allready doing well, and we will be in the top 5 in the NFL. Considering our opposition, we may be the best in the NFL.
What we really need is our D to improve. We seem to be able to make plays, but we need more turnovers. I wish we had another stud in the middle like big Pat.
John from Hemet
09-24-2002, 06:23 PM
This is really not that complicated....
Offensive lines dont just open up holes on demand...especially against good run defenses....
You have to let them get into a rythum with it....you cannot expect to try to run 12 times a game and have a 100 yard rusher with a power back like Travis Henry....Travis isn't going to hit home runs on one rush...he is going to get you chunks of 5-10-15-25 yards at a time.....the more rushes...the more yards....
the ADVANTAGE of that is...he is a back that gets stronger the more carries he gets...like a Curtis Martin....he chews up clock...keeps opposing defenses off of the field.....gives your defense a chance to rest....keeps Drew's jersey clean....and over the course of the game force the opposing team to play more guys in the box.....
On the offensive line.....it is much the same way...there are 2 different jobs you do as a run blocker vs a pass blocker....you have to allow your line to establish a rythum with it as well.....you cant GIVE YOUR LINE 12 CHANCES A DAMN GAME
RedEyE
09-24-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by John from Hemet
This is really not that complicated....
Offensive lines dont just open up holes on demand...especially against good run defenses....
You have to let them get into a rythum with it....you cannot expect to try to run 12 times a game and have a 100 yard rusher with a power back like Travis Henry....Travis isn't going to hit home runs on one rush...he is going to get you chunks of 5-10-15-25 yards at a time.....the more rushes...the more yards....
the ADVANTAGE of that is...he is a back that gets stronger the more carries he gets...like a Curtis Martin....he chews up clock...keeps opposing defenses off of the field.....gives your defense a chance to rest....keeps Drew's jersey clean....and over the course of the game force the opposing team to play more guys in the box.....
On the offensive line.....it is much the same way...there are 2 different jobs you do as a run blocker vs a pass blocker....you have to allow your line to establish a rythum with it as well.....you cant GIVE YOUR LINE 12 CHANCES A DAMN GAME
:up: AMEN
All I am trying to figure out is which games you guys are watching, b/c just about all the runs that I've seen Henry make have been up-the-middle. The very first run other than up the middle I believe was this Sunday v. Denver and it was a sweep. He had three of those on Sunday and they were for gains of 8, 4, and no gain. The rest of the runs were into the OL area.
Bryson had two carries, one up the middle for 4 and a sweep for no gain. I thought he couldn't run UTM...
In the Vikes game, Henry had one sweep for no gain and the rest were UTM between the Ts.
The Jets, who cares. They've proven that my mom can rush for 100+ v. them...
The bottom line is that we need to improve our rushing game and if that means adding some draws and sweeps and other runs, then let's do it. If that doesn't suit Henry's style, then TFB. We'll find someone who's style it does fit.
This is a team. It's not about making Henry a superstar. He's done absolutely nothing to cement himself into the starting spot on this team yet. Any talk of him being a great RB is purely premature at this point until he figures out how to make the most out of little like hundreds of other RBs in this league before him. If he's not suited to certain situations, then fine, let's put in whoever the best one on this team is to handle that specific task.
Simple!
Buffarama
09-24-2002, 09:52 PM
Why can't anyone see that Henry can run, the line has enough talent to block, but the line coach is the weakness.
If I asked anyone of you, if Shanahan, or Belicheck was coaching this team, would they be able to run the ball better among other things, you would all say yes.
If I say its coaching thats hurting us, you say no.
But you admit that a better coach would make us better. By default you admit coaching is hurting us.
So right now coaching is the weakness. And it starts with the O-Line coach, and the defensive cooridinator. Both are failing.
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