How are we ever gain confidence in the running game...

[Earthquake Enyart]

If we throw on every 3rd and short? :huh:

[SABURZFAN]

:idunno:

do we even have a running game?i haven't seen it.

[HenryRules]

I really think at this point in time, the OL has to prove they can run the ball before we give it back to them. They had 60 or so running plays in the first two games and not once did they open up a hole anywhere near the size of the ones that GB opened at least 5-10 times last night.

If we didn't run so much in those first 2 games, i'd say, ok blame the coaches, we need to start running first. But when the OL was given the opp, they didn't take advantage so we have to try something else.

I'll rephrase the question ... if we can't open holes when everyone knows we pass on 75% of our plays, how are we ever going to run the ball successfully?

[Earthquake Enyart]

How are you going to prove anything if you never do it? Is GW waiting until the other team brings out 6 DB's on 3rd and 1 before he runs it?

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by BogusTrumper
Hi handsome

What, you get thrown out too?

[HenryRules]

EE, if they opened a hole on any rushing play, that would be a start towards proving something. If you can't open a hole on a 4-man front, how can you expect to do it on 3rd a 1?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
How are you going to prove anything if you never do it? Is GW waiting until the other team brings out 6 DB's on 3rd and 1 before he runs it?
I absolutely agree with EE on this. Watching last night's game how the Bears kept pounding the ball with Anthony Thomas despite being down by 10+ points, reminded me of the Bills. A-Train kept getting stuffed, with maybe 2-3 yards each time. But they kept at it enough times that even he busted out for a 60 yard run for TD.

That's exactly what we should be doing.

[justasportsfan]

Run our rb 30-40 times. I said that prior to the eagles games. If we insisted on running even if the run game was like the jags, we would've gotten 2-3 ypc eventually and we wouldn't have a problem throwing at 3 and 1 because the eagles would've thought we would run.

It also would've given our D some rest.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
I absolutely agree with EE on this.
That's exactly what we should be doing.

:eek:

[Throne Logic]

Running the ball is an attitude. We hear this all the time, primarily because it's true. This team does not currently have the mental toughness required to be effective in the run game.

They have to keep mixing up the plays. Drew cannot be asked to open up the run game through the passing game. This would feed right into his shortcoming:

The "Drew must do it all" mentality = bad decisions and forced balls = interceptions and holding the ball too long (sacks and fumbles).

Who needs to do what:
1) It's up to the coaching staff to light a serious fire under the OL's collective large butts.

2) It's up to GW to put in Sullivan in place of Pucillo (or give us a friggin' good reason why not).

3) It's going to be up to TD to find a dominent Guard in the next draft/off-season. Right now, we've got two good tackles, a servicable center (if he had a solid guard next to him), an old Ruben Brown, and a gap between Center and RT.

4) It's up to the players to take a good look at themselves and make the decision to play like the professionals they are.

My breakdown of this OL:
They are very good at holding their own ground. They work well together to hold open passing pockets. For the most part, the pass protection has been solid. This line has been effective in neutralizing the Defensive attackers progression toward the QB. Neutralizing them creates those nice pockets Drew has had often this season. This is good for the passing game.

In contrast, this is bad for the running game. You cannot run from within a pocket. There are no holes in a pocket and, assuming the RB can sqeeze by his own Offensive Linemen, the Defensive Linemen & Linebackers are sitting right there at the line of scrimage, in the perfect position to fall left or right and make the tackle.

Diagnosis:
To much focus on the pass protection. Not that it should be compromised. It's just that this unit is currently run blocking like they pass block. It just doesn't work.

What needs to happen:
They need to be able to flip the switch and get nasty on run plays. They need to be able to gain enough ground to open holes, instead of holding ground where no holes exist. This is an attitude - a state of mind. This is where it starts.

I hope they can figure it out in time.

[RedEyE]

Absolutely right. They have to make it work. Look at Ricky's first half stats that Sunday night against the Dolphins. He had only 44 yards on 17 carries (avg 2.5 ypc).

The Dolphins stuck with the run and bruised the Bills defense in the second half. In the 3rd quarter Ricky got in his groove mounting 39 yards in just 10 carries (avg 3.9 ypc). In the 4th, he continued his crusade, dragging the Bill's D 15 more carries for 72 yards (avg 4.8 ypc). As we all know Ricky finished the night 153 yards on 42 carries (avg. 3.6 ypc).

My point? The coaches have to be patient with the run. If it doesn't work in the first 3 drives, keep trying. Eventually it is going to finally catch on. The Bills haven't established this all year (except for maybe against the Pats). They abandon the run the first chance that they get This is making the offense 1 dimensional. The OL hasn't really had a chance to get comfortable run blocking. They're too entirely wrapped up in protecting the pass.

[HenryRules]

The coaching staff did not give up on the run after the first 3 drives ... they gave up on it after the first 10 quarters or so - there's a big difference there.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by HenryRules
The coaching staff did not give up on the run after the first 3 drives ... they gave up on it after the first 10 quarters or so - there's a big difference there.

Really??!!!!

You better go look at the stats again. Isn't funny how the Bills were 2-0 in the 1st 2 games of the season, rushing 30x in game 1 and 30x in game 2. In game 1 the run was working well (I don't care what any of you say). Game 2 the run wasn't efficient, but Henry only ran 20 x in that game. Henry should be seeing the ball 27 - 30 x a game. He is not going to amount much yardage if he's not touching the ball.

So then what, you abandon the run after one bad day, statistically?

Now let's look at the last 2 games: The Bills are 0-2, rushing only 9 x against the Dolphins and 10 x against the Eagles (19x in two games?!?!?!?!?!?!?). The Bills were still in both of those games late in the 4th quarter.

This offense cannot and will not work built around Drew Bledsoe. It is absolutely necessary to establish the run. If you think for one minute that you hand off the ball and the run just happens, then your insane. It's a game of finese and a game of patience. The Bills coaching staff has not shown patience at all. The formations are predictable and the plays have become simply useless.

(**I'm not counting Bledsoe scrambles on run attempts, because we're specifically referring to the running backs here).

[Billzz]

Henry was on the bench for the 4th quarter of the jax's game when he would of been pounding it racking up some decent yardage for the year.

[Dozerdog]

Welcome to the Zone, Billzz!!!

[Billzz]

Thanks.

[helmetguy]

Whomever carries the rock has to take the attitude that he'll take what he can get; just keep giving him the rock. In Henry's case, he has to remember he's not the Juice-forget the two-grand and just go out to win football games. Who was that Dallas guy that just kept going and going? Two yards, one yard, loss of two, five yard gain...BOOM! Forty yard TD! What was his name? Smith, I think. Remember him? He did okay taking what he could get, huh?

[HenryRules]

RE, the number of carries that we had in games 1 and 2 was a result of the fact that we had the lead most of the game and not the cause for us having the lead most of the game. Agree with me or not, you won't convince me to think otherwise.

I know you don't care what I say, but statistically or not , we had a below average running game the first game.

Don't forget also that the first 2 games were not close at all and we dominated pretty much from the start. That meant that every possession was not ultra-important and gave us the opportunity to wait it out and try and see if the running game can come around. The last 2 games have been close or we have been trailing throughout - thus every possession counts and if something is not working, we cannot continue to go back to it (now, why we have not tried pulling guards, quick dives or other variations within the run game, I don't know, and will agree those should be tried, however, our standard running game was not working, and we could not afford to go back to it).

HG, I agree that TH or whomever should run like Emmitt. However, you are simplifying the situation. Dallas O was constantly opening huge holes that Emmitt could walk through and it was seldom 1 yard, 2 yards, loss of 1 yard, big gain ... it was almost always a gain of at least 2 yards, not a maximum of that distance. Our OL <i>never</i> opens holes this year.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by HenryRules

HG, I agree that TH or whomever should run like Emmitt. However, you are simplifying the situation. Dallas O was constantly opening huge holes that Emmitt could walk through and it was seldom 1 yard, 2 yards, loss of 1 yard, big gain ... it was almost always a gain of at least 2 yards, not a maximum of that distance. Our OL <i>never</i> opens holes this year.

Not necessarily. Emmit DID have a lot of games where there wasn't much there. The point is, the playcalling was based on patience, and Smith's ability to break off a big one from time to time was the result of going back to the well again and again. TH still needs to learn how to read his blocks, or wait until those blocks develop.

[TedMock]

TH is bouncing outside too much this year. He didn't do that last season. I seriously think he's trying to prove that he can. Plus, Pucillo just sucks. He's getting blown into the backfield on every single play. I hope they lined him up against Pat and Sam all week and had the RB's run straight into his back until he couldn't walk. Maybe he'll learn that if he pushes forward he won't get drilled in the back. He just pisses me off so much. I know he's only in his second year but it's real hard to watch.