Are you guys kiddin me? [Archive] - BillsZone.com

kgun12

10-01-2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I just saw this on the phins board and couldn't believe it. You are 2-2 people, not 0-4, you're competitive in every game and have a chance in every game. I don't believe this. This team has a lot of new starters and they're trying to jell and learn a new system for a lot of them for the first time..I can't believe someone put this up.

Fire Gregg Williams (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?14904&1)

This is just wrong and crazy, just like the one for Wanny was.

:monkey: on these types of fareweather fans.

Unbelievable A VOICE OF REASON AND FROM A FINFAN.:eek:

there are a lot of people that need to listen to this man before you blow a gasket!!!

THANK YOU MDFINFAN!!! :drunks: This Buds for you!!!

Novacane

10-01-2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
..I can't believe someone put this up.

:monkey: on these types of fareweather fans.

Originally posted by billsfanone
Should I be worried? I have agreed too many times with Fin fans this week.

I can't fathom the mental malfunctions that cause some people to over-react like this.

Sorry guys but you're wrong. Believing this team would be better without Greg Willaims does not make you a fairweather fan or having mental malfuncitons. Give me a break with the holier than thou attitude!

The_Philster

10-01-2003, 04:14 PM

:hail: Fairway to Green

MDFINFAN

10-01-2003, 04:21 PM

I come to this board because I have a lot of respect for the fans here, but this is madding, I liked it better when you guys talked smacked. Can't believe some of you have given up like this. I'm still a fan of AFCE teams and believe we have the best division in football, I was disappointed this weekend with all our teams losing to the NFCE, but I still think we're better, each team had issues, but philly had two weeks to prepare for you, after an emotional lost at Miami. I said the only way they beat you is an emotional one. You guys were flat, like we were against the Texans, and that caused problems, but also the running game has to come around, can't ignore that. But even with that, you were still in the game against a good team that took 2 weeks to prepare for you and only you. Look at it. GW doesn't execute plays on the field, players do...I say this to fareweather miami fans who were calling for Wanny's hide. Why didn't that letter to Wilson include some of the players not doing their jobs? I want to win the division as a miami fan, but we all picked Buffalo as the team that scare us the most. So far I see nothing that's changed. You're still the team that has the upside to win this division. If your team gets on roll, those fareweather fans had better temper their comments, for they will be reminded of this post. Especially when miami comes to town, all petitioners will be ignored and commented on.

R. Rich

10-01-2003, 04:21 PM

For me, the jury's still out on Gregg. As far as the new players needing to jell and all that, I'm not sure that's a valid argument here. If it were a case of "he went right when I thought he was going left" or "I thought you had so-and-so on that play", then I might agree. What we're seeing are breakdowns in the FUNDAMENTALS!!!!! Poor blocking (getting blown off the ball and manhandled), stupid penalties (you don't know the snap count? That's pee wee football stuff, folks), the inability to hang on to a ball thrown your way (something they should know how to do before getting to the pros). The reason I'm not yet in the "fire Gregg" camp is that a lot of this is the responsibility of the players. We saw some of this stuff before Gregg even got here (Ruben "Holden Falstart" Brown has been good for a boneheaded penalty nearly every game since he came into the league). How many coaches would have to get bounced before we start holding (no pun intended) players accountable for some of this stuff?

The_Philster

10-01-2003, 04:25 PM

Two things.
If we were fairweather fans or giving up, we wouldn't be here. No one's given up. I for one will be at the Ralph on Sunday screaming my lungs out as I do every Sunday. But if the coach can't motivate the team to give its all, he's NOT DOING HIS JOB!!
As far as the players, there are certain players who we would love to see on a plane out of town...maybe even to Miami ;)

MDFINFAN

10-01-2003, 04:28 PM

Exactly Rich, some of that cause you problems before GW got here. Remember GW was thinking of finning people for it. But the NFLPA won't allow it. So it's not like your coach isn't aware, the only other thing to do is fire the person, but who would be the replacement? Someone less talented than the person starting right now, I gurantee you. And if he did waived a talented players, this place would really go wild. What's a coach to do?

Miami_Vice

10-01-2003, 04:29 PM

BWHAHAHAHA this is classic. A fin fan trying to cheer up a bunch of depressed Bills fans.

"There, there, everything is going to be okay"
"we didnt kick your ass that bad" BWHAHAHA

MDFINFAN

10-01-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
Two things.
If we were fairweather fans or giving up, we wouldn't be here. No one's given up. I for one will be at the Ralph on Sunday screaming my lungs out as I do every Sunday. But if the coach can't motivate the team to give its all, he's NOT DOING HIS JOB!!
As far as the players, there are certain players who we would love to see on a plane out of town...maybe even to Miami ;)

Philster, are you here to give your support to the team or to place fire GW ads?

The coach can say the right words, push the right buttons, but a player also has to want to be motivated, he has to want to dig deep and give it his all, look at Spikes, he doesn't need to be motivated, he just needs a game to be played. But execution is what football is about, played on emotions, spinkled in with talent. The bills have al that, and will be back on a roll shortly, then how will you justify your two game 9wanting the coach fired)? I sweetened up my words here..I was going to say "how will you justify>>>>>>>. But as I said I respect you guys as fans. Fareweathered is the harshest I can get with you guys..

timfromjersey

10-01-2003, 05:18 PM

I, for one, would never, could never, should never care what a Miami dipfin fan would have to say, neither positive or negative. Neither would I ever run to his board to post, whether postive or negative. The only time I would respond to one, is if he audaciously posts some of his customarily impertinent wrongness on this site and only in the fashion of rightious indignation to smite down his wrongness and trample it beneath the feet on one of the most noblest of all NFL epicurean patrons, -- A Bills fan.

Now as far as firing GW or where he is taking this team, I only have two words. Tony Dungy (Look what he's done and compare to GW. Nuff said!)

helmetguy

10-01-2003, 05:45 PM

MD...I assume you are employed and, as such, have responsibilities to fulfill in order to remain employed. Correct? If you were unable to fulfill those responsibilities, or too inexperienced to fulfill them, how long do you think your employer would continue to employ you?
Let's take this a step further. Let's say your employer saw to it to provide you with some of the better equipment available to facilitate better production from you. Let's say that, in spite of having the higher quality equipment, better training, and better support staff, you continue to underperform, or at least not live up to the expectations of your employer. How long would it be before you fellow employees and the consumers of your product become dissatisfied? This is the same analogy as in the case of Gregg Williams.
A very brash Gregg Williams arrived in Buffalo assuring a disciplined, well coached, efficient and effective football team. Granted, he didn't have a tremendous lot to work with in his first year, but that has since dramatically changed. He may recognize the deficiencies, but has shown no indication that he is able to correct them. What we DO know is that he recognizes the "need to get better..." The question is..."WHEN?" Those of us who are calling for a change now are the very same ones who have voiced our displeasure many times in the past; LONG before the current tailspin. I respect your input. However, your advice to us who attend the games and (pay for the product on the field) is beginning to sound like hypocritical condescention.

Gunzlingr

10-01-2003, 06:14 PM

Circle the Wagons Bills fans!!!

BillsFever

10-01-2003, 06:59 PM

MDFF is right on the money with this one. I've been reading other boards because I had to get away from the insanity of this place for the last few days.

Fire this, fire that :puke:

Novacane

10-01-2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by BillsFever
MDFF is right on the money with this one. I've been reading other boards because I had to get away from the insanity of this place for the last few days.

Fire this, fire that :puke:

No, He is not right. Calling people who have been fans for more than 20 years thru thick and thin fairweather fans is bull shi* and honestly it pisses me off.

I think Greg williams is an idiot. I base that on 2+ years of questionable decision making...not the last 2 games. That does not make me a fairweather fan.

Novacane

10-01-2003, 07:58 PM

This is the same kind of thinking as those who say Wys is not a real fan because he does not like Bledsoe. Total Bull S#iT!

justasportsfan

10-01-2003, 08:13 PM

MD you weren't posting here last year. Some posters thought he wasn't smart enough last year. They do have a basis though. If you were posting last year you wouldn't be surprised now .

He made bonehead decisions last year and still does this year. We gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was the lack of players. Good players or not, he's made dumbass decisions.

I'm not decided on GW yet. I do think Gilbride sucks though.

justasportsfan

10-01-2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I come to this board because I have a lot of respect for the fans here, but this is madding, I liked it better when you guys talked smacked. Can't believe some of you have given up like this. I'm still a fan of AFCE teams and believe we have the best division in football, I was disappointed this weekend with all our teams losing to the NFCE, but I still think we're better, each team had issues, but philly had two weeks to prepare for you, after an emotional lost at Miami. I said the only way they beat you is an emotional one. You guys were flat, like we were against the Texans, and that caused problems, but also the running game has to come around, can't ignore that. But even with that, you were still in the game against a good team that took 2 weeks to prepare for you and only you. Look at it. GW doesn't execute plays on the field, players do...I say this to fareweather miami fans who were calling for Wanny's hide. Why didn't that letter to Wilson include some of the players not doing their jobs? I want to win the division as a miami fan, but we all picked Buffalo as the team that scare us the most. So far I see nothing that's changed. You're still the team that has the upside to win this division. If your team gets on roll, those fareweather fans had better temper their comments, for they will be reminded of this post. Especially when miami comes to town, all petitioners will be ignored and commented on.

Use paragraphs man. It's hard to read stuff written like that. :snicker:

Novacane

10-01-2003, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
. If your team gets on roll, those fareweather fans had better temper their comments, for they will be reminded of this post. Especially when miami comes to town, all petitioners will be ignored and commented on.

Who cares:jawdrop:

Novacane

10-01-2003, 08:29 PM

Sorry MD..............you may be a nice guy but you are way way way way off base calling people fairweather fans. You really got my gander up!

10-01-2003, 08:33 PM

So people who wanted Hank Bullogh or Kay Stevenson or Wad Phillips fired were "fairweather fans" according to MD ?

Give your head a shake....

Novacane

10-01-2003, 08:43 PM

Let me give a couple examples of how off base your "fairweather" comments are

Petition starter....signee #1 James Pierce..........aka Lordofgun........one of the main guys that takes his time to run this site and very passionate about the Bills

signee #5 Roger Eimers Jr. AKA ME.......been a fan for 20+ years, have gone to games every year even when we sucked and have been an on and off season ticket holder.

Signee # 7 Frank Stephen AKA Ebeneezer....another Mod here who takes his time to give us salary cap updates and is a season ticket holder.

Signee #14 Mark Weiler AKA Wys......again, a mod who gives his own time to help run this site and buys 12 season tickets

I could go on and on but why bother. I guess the mods here are just a bunch of fairweather fans.

BTW......................read a lot of the names on there. Most of the names are made up jokes. It's called a sense of humor.

The_Philster

10-01-2003, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Ð
So people who wanted Hank Bullogh or Kay Stevenson or Wad Phillips fired were "fairweather fans" according to MD ?

Give your head a shake....

Yeah...if you want to change anything about the team.....you're a fairweather fan, I guess. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by justasportsfan
MD you weren't posting here last year. Some posters thought he wasn't smart enough last year. They do have a basis though. If you were posting last year you wouldn't be surprised now .

He made bonehead decisions last year and still does this year. We gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was the lack of players. Good players or not, he's made dumbass decisions.

And that's the point all of us have been making. He has some exceptional players all throughout ther roster. If it were a case where we're getting beaten because we were outmatched, I don't think we'd be complaining as much. But the coaches aren't putting the players in position to win.
No fire in their guts
A swinging door at RG
those are the two things I'm extremely pissed about. I'm sure I could think up more but those are the biggies that have to be fixed. If the players come out playing intense like they did Opening Day and we replace that Pucillo guy at RG with someone who can either pass block or run block (because he does neither) the complaints will drop drastically.

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
Philster, are you here to give your support to the team or to place fire GW ads?

:rolleyes: I'm here to support the team just as I have for the last 8 years I've had season tickets. And I'm not the type who just sits there. I rarely go into work on Monday with a strong voice because I left it on the field on Sunday...same thing we expect our players to do. I proudly display my Bills and Billszone bumper stickers, wear clothes with the Bills on them and I just picked up my Drew Bledsoe bobblehead doll at McDonald's. I did all these types of things during the 6-10 and 3-13 seasons we suffered through recently. And I can guarantee you...I'm FAR from alone. Fairweather fan? Give me a break :rolleyes: A fairweather fan would either leave the boards entirely or stay away from the football talk.

MDFINFAN

10-01-2003, 09:33 PM

FTG, I know I got ya pissed, but my intend was to ask a question, is your coach that bad?...What has he done to deserve this..Last year you didn't have a good D, Drew got sacked alot. Your team went out and got new players, and the D looks better, but as I've stated earlier, you lose some playmakers on O. That kind of countered your upgrades on D. Everyone was on Reed"s Bandwagon before the season started, he's dropped a number of balls. Is that GW's fault? Teams run up the middle, because Adams allows a guy to block him out of the way. Is that GW's fault?..I know the old saying, the coach is at fault for every thing, but is he really when situations like the above happened. Maybe fairweather fans is the wrong choice of words, but you guys have been behind your team like maniacs..the first 2 games no one questioned much except a fake punt. Then you lose one and everyone questioned everything, I know it's human nature, but I always feel a certain responsibility is on the players too. That's why I ride the Dolphins D so much..They get the bulk of the team's money and then don't show up some times. That pisses me off, and since I've seen them play great, I know it's not the coaches fault. Just like your O, and looking at your D. Can you really said the coach has not put them in position to win? They 've both played well. I apologize if any of you felt insulted. I just didn't see your team as bad and your coaches sucking...I take that back, Gilbrite doesn't excite me.. but GW hasn't been that bad from what I've seen.

Earthquake Enyart

10-01-2003, 09:43 PM

Have fun pulling for Wanny, buttwipe.

I'm with FTG. Wanting your stupid coach fired doesn't make you a fiar weather fan. I hated the Gilbride hiring from day 1, and Gregg has had more than enough time to prove he's not a mealy mouth hillbilly.

MDFINFAN

10-01-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Have fun pulling for Wanny, buttwipe.

I'm with FTG. Wanting your stupid coach fired doesn't make you a fiar weather fan. I hated the Gilbride hiring from day 1, and Gregg has had more than enough time to prove he's not a mealy mouth hillbilly.

I don't know you and it's easy to call me buttwipe behind a machine when you know I can't see ya..punk,,,but I feel the way I do...period..just like people post fire the coach, I can question that train of thought...but if you can't be civil, please stay out of my thread..

:spam:

The_Philster

10-01-2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
but if you can't be civil, please stay out of my thread..

:spam:
:scratch: For EE, that IS civil :D

BillsFever

10-01-2003, 10:16 PM

I don't agree about the fairweather fan part, but I agree about giving the team a chance.

We lost a couple close battles against good teams. There is still 12 more games to go.

Every game you lose you could find reasons to fault the coaching staff. Firing a coach midseason is basically saying you give up on this year.

kgun12

10-01-2003, 11:15 PM

I just wonder if we had this board during the Super Bowl run How many fans would have called for Kelly's Levy's Thomas's and the entire defense in any or all 4 of the Super Bowls?

Let's see kelly had some of his worst games in the SB's.

Levy got out coached in ALL 4 games.

Thomas should have gotten out of bounds in the first SB. Than there would have been time to run a few more plays and score a TD or at the very least got it close enough for a Norwood chip shot!

As far as the defense goes, well I guess I don't have to say anything.

So let's look at those names; Kelly, Levy in the Hall of Fame. Thomas good shot at it. Bruce one of the members of 4 bad SB defenses a lock.

No Williams hasn't gotten us to the SB yet, but it could happen. Look at how bad our Hall of Famers have produces in big Games.

Just food for thought!

LtBillsFan66

10-02-2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by BillsFever
I don't agree about the fairweather fan part, but I agree about giving the team a chance.

Yeah maybe fairweather was the wrong word.

Severely overreacting is a better way to describe it.

The problem is the asinine monday morning gm mentality from some of you who want to fire, cut, kill, and maim half the team and staff after a loss.

LET THE SEASON PLAY OUT! Firing GW this early will do nothing. Nada. Zilch. We came out flat in two games. We played well in the first two. Lets see if things get fixed first.

And no, I'm not a fan of Gregg.

LtBillsFan66

10-02-2003, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by kgun12
I just wonder if we had this board during the Super Bowl run How many fans would have called for Kelly's Levy's Thomas's and the entire defense in any or all 4 of the Super Bowls?

Let's see kelly had some of his worst games in the SB's.

Levy got out coached in ALL 4 games.

Thomas should have gotten out of bounds in the first SB. Than there would have been time to run a few more plays and score a TD or at the very least got it close enough for a Norwood chip shot!

As far as the defense goes, well I guess I don't have to say anything.

So let's look at those names; Kelly, Levy in the Hall of Fame. Thomas good shot at it. Bruce one of the members of 4 bad SB defenses a lock.

No Williams hasn't gotten us to the SB yet, but it could happen. Look at how bad our Hall of Famers have produces in big Games.

Just food for thought!

BRAVO!!! :bf1:

DraftBoy

10-02-2003, 12:49 AM

Well said MD,

While these fans may not be fair weather their recent actions sure do bring their merits to question to the outsiders eyes. I know all these guys and can assure you they are not fairweather by any means. I do however think that these stupid fire GW posts are very childish. Considering we are 4 games into the season and some people perdicted us and said they would very happy with a 2-3 stat, and now all we can here is *****ing and whining about a 2-2 start with a really good chance to go 3-2 and possible regain #1 in the AFCE. Ridiculuos, these guys arent fairweather fans, but their posts sure do sound like it.

Cntrygal

10-02-2003, 05:42 AM

EE.... don't insult hillbilly's :p:

It's frustrating when we see VETS making rookie mistakes. It's frustrating to hear GW say "We've got to work on that".... and then the following week say the exact same thing about the same problems.... over and over again, for the last couple years.

PhinPhan1227

10-02-2003, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
Come on guys. We need a fin fan to get us back on track? What is going on here? We lost to 2 good teams. We will win this week!

Hehehehe...I'm saving this somewhere....you called the Phins a good team:inlove:

jaja54

10-02-2003, 08:30 AM

My $0.02.... I think you guys are over reacting to losing two straight games. You have a very good team and firing your coach at his point would severly damage it. Same goes for Wanny of the Fins. I don't particularly like him as a coach (his record has consistently dropped with the Fins each year) and I blame him for the loss to the Texans. However, firing him would only damage a team I consider SB capable.

I think you guys need to give the guy at least until the end of the season. If he has one of those famous Dolphin collapses then petition away!!

helmetguy

10-02-2003, 08:37 AM

Once again...*sigh*...if it were simply these past two losses, there wouldn't be much debate. The problem is, since his arrival, GW has written checks with his mouth that his abilities can't cash. As a 40-year Bills fan, I've seen the best to the worst. When a guy can't recognize deficiencies on his own-without having to be reminded time after time-that indicates he's in over his head.

For the record: I wanted him gone after 2001. Is that over-reacting to two losses?

Novacane

10-02-2003, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by BillsFever
I don't agree about the fairweather fan part, but I agree about giving the team a chance.

We lost a couple close battles against good teams. There is still 12 more games to go.

Every game you lose you could find reasons to fault the coaching staff. Firing a coach midseason is basically saying you give up on this year.

This train of thought I agree with. I am hardly giving up on the season. I'll be at the Ralph Sunday cheering my throat sore. I'm just pissed at the total flat performance last week and I lay that on Gregg. He also refuses to even try and establish a running game. That pisses me off to no end! We should be able to voice our displeasure without being labeled fairweather.

This would be one boring place if we all showed up after a loss and cheered "it's only one game...............I can't wait till next week"

justasportsfan

10-02-2003, 08:46 AM

They are not fairweather fans for thinking that finding a better coach would improve the team. They are actually looking out for the good of the team in their opinion. Their opinions are not made w/o basis either. GW in the last two games (and a few games last year) has had no control over this team and hasn't proven that he can outcoach a good team.

The Cowboys have way lesser talent than the bills and yet they were able to beat the giants due to coaching. We are not gonna beat teams based on talent alone. We pumelled two teams w/ depleted secondaries and couldn't outsmart the fins and an injured eagles team.

You cannot tell me that the injuries on our rb's is what's wrong with this team. Burns would've done well for any other team in a different scheme.

I think GW could be a good HC someday, but right now he's coaching like he's just learning how to be a HC at the expense of the team.

Novacane

10-02-2003, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Cntrygal
EE.... don't insult hillbilly's :p:

It's frustrating when we see VETS making rookie mistakes. It's frustrating to hear GW say "We've got to work on that".... and then the following week say the exact same thing about the same problems.... over and over again, for the last couple years.

Thank you thank you thank you! You are not a Bills fan MD so you do not follow GW as close as we do. "We've got to work on that" is his favorite saying. He says that about penalties every stinking week. A big part of his undoing is when he arrived here he bragged how disicplined his team would be. We have been near the league lead in penalties his first 2 years and are there again this year. If he's "working at it" he ain't doing a very good job!

Originally posted by helmetguy
Once again...*sigh*...if it were simply these past two losses, there wouldn't be much debate. The problem is, since his arrival, GW has written checks with his mouth that his abilities can't cash. As a 40-year Bills fan, I've seen the best to the worst. When a guy can't recognize deficiencies on his own-without having to be reminded time after time-that indicates he's in over his head.

For the record: I wanted him gone after 2001. Is that over-reacting to two losses?

Yes! IT IS NOT THE LAST 2 GAMES!!!!!!!! It is 2+ years of his stupidity.

TedMock

10-02-2003, 08:57 AM

I personally was willing to give him until the end of year 3. If he doesn't show anything with this talent then, yes, fire him. The reason I said 3 years is that he came into a situation that Vince Lombardi couldn't work with. We stunk in 2001....period. Plus, Donahoe came in and said "I need 3 years to make this team competitive" and also asked the fans to "please be patient". We all obviously knew who Tom Donahoe was and what his reputation as a GM was so I trusted him. I still do. This is GW's contract year and if he doesn't win then I have no problem firing him. The guy was a great defensive coach and maybe that's all he is a la Wade. We'll see. I just decided that fair is fair and I'll wait until the end of year 3. He has gotten better with the challenges from year 1. Some people don't like the non-TD challenge last week but it wasn't about that play. It was to gather more time to discuss what to do then a regular time out would've given. I had no problem with that. The only play I hated, and this goes on Gilbride, was the 3rd and 1, "let's go deep to the slow TE".

TedMock

10-02-2003, 08:59 AM

One more thing. there's no excuse for how we played Sunday.

justasportsfan

10-02-2003, 09:02 AM

By mid-season we should know. I'd hate to say that let's wait till the year ends because we have enough talent to go deep into the playoffs but a DE , DT and a new OC away from the SB. (I'm starting to sound like wys :scratch: )

Hiring a different coach for next year will be like rebuilding trying to get this team into a different philosophy.

Novacane

10-02-2003, 09:03 AM

At least you got a lively thread going MD. :clap: It's been kinda boring around here without Wys posting:bowl:

TedMock

10-02-2003, 09:06 AM

I definitely don't want a new coach during the season. I may be wrong but the only thing I see from that is disaster. New system in the middle of the year, divided locker room, etc..

indianabillsfan

10-02-2003, 09:06 AM

If the Bills had even tried to run the ball the last two weeks, there is a good chance we would not even have to talk about the abilities or inabilities of Gregg Williams. I know Travis Henry was hurt against Miami and missed the Philadelphia game and Sammy Morris has not been healthy. But you at least have to present the threat of a running attack to keep defenses honest and preventing the defensive line from assaulting the quarterback and allowing the defensive backs and linebackers to only worry about the receivers. That makes it too easy for the defense and too hard for the offense to succeed. A major, major key to football success is a commitment to running. Consider these examples. Against the Jaguars, Henry had 21 carries for 26 yards. The key is the 21 carries. Even though the running game was going nowhere, at least with 21 carries the Bills controlled the possession time. And with the threat of running, look at what happened for the passing attack in that game. The commitment to the running game also kept the defense off the field and allowed them to be fresh enough to make the key plays when they were needed. Look at last Sunday night's game between the Colts and Saints. The Colts did not have Edge. They had the "other" Ricky Williams and James Mungro. But because they were committed to the running game, the Colts' receivers were running wild all over the field and Manning had a career game with 6 TD passes. In the Bills' last two games, I don't care if the feature back had to be Joe Burns. The Bills still need to feed him the ball. It is not like Buffalo was getting blown out in either of the last 2 games, but the running game was all but abandoned before halftime. This puts too much pressure on the QB, WR's, and OL. Sure, the RB's were going nowhere, but that did not matter in Jacksonville or in many other of the Bills' victories. The number of carries can be, and often is, more important than the total yards. This is especially true if you decide to RUN THE BALL IN THE RED ZONE. This is a must for consistently putting TD's on the board and being efficient in the red zone. The Bills did this against New England and Jacksonville and look what happened. In Miami, they tried to get too cute and the result was 2 INT's in the endzone. With the Bills offense unable to rack up time of possession the last two weeks, the defense was worn down by the end of the game and gave up critical big plays to the opposing offense that ended the Bills' chances for pulling out a victory. I know that it is obviously easier to commit to the ground game when you are ahead, but being behind 7 to 0, as the Bills have been the last 2 weeks in the 2nd quarter when they gave up on running, is hardly an insurmountable defecit that requires resorting to an all out aerial attack. I don't care if Burns is averaging an inch per carry, the ground attack cannot be abandoned after 10 carries when you are still in the game. None of this is rocket science, folks, it's just basic football strategy, a time tested and proven formula for success. It just takes a little bit of commitment, faith in your running attack, some occasional hard-headedness, and sometimes even an ego check for the offensive coordinator, QB, and head coach. Consider Mike Martz and Steve Spurrier. These are two egotistical coaches who love the artistry of their aerial attacks. But both of their teams have struggled until they decided to commit to their running games. I'm sure there are many more examples. I just waned to give us all some food for thought. Sorry about rambling on and on, but sometimes the gears in my brain are hard to stop once they start moving. I guess I could have just said "run the ball and we'll be fine" but like I said, I like to ramble.

Novacane

10-02-2003, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by TedMock
I definitely don't want a new coach during the season. I may be wrong but the only thing I see from that is disaster. New system in the middle of the year, divided locker room, etc..

I don't either unless the next 8 games we go 2-6 or something along those lines. If we are out of playoff contention we ought to fire him and get a head start on next year. I don't think it will come to this though because inspite of Greeggg, we have enough talent to overcome him to an extent and keep us in the hunt all year IMO.

helmetguy

10-02-2003, 09:31 AM

Didn't Williams say that, in order for the Bills to be successful, they had to start fast? In other words, if the opposition scores first, the brain mistrust goes into panic mode?

What has impressed me the most in all the threads is that hundreds of valid reasons have been offered-by many LONGTIME Bills fans-that justify canning GW as soon as possible. Only one has been given for keeping him until the end of the season...Continuity? For those who prefer to wait until his contract is up...expect more of the same. Enjoy the indigestion!

jaja54

10-02-2003, 09:59 AM

After going 3-13 and 8-8, this year looking optimistic with the new acquisitions, I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt until season's end. If he mkes the playoffs then at least you are seeing improvement on a yearly basis.

helmetguy

10-02-2003, 11:18 AM

We've been giving him the benefit of the doubt for the better part of two years. Four games into this season, he has succeeded in confirming all the doubts. The team won't win BECAUSE of him; they CAN win IN SPITE of him. However, as long as HE is the one with the final say on game day, it is accurate to conclude that the team CAN lose BECAUSE of him.

NoRing4U

10-02-2003, 12:00 PM

GW isn't the one dropping balls (Moulds), GW isn't the one who can't run (your whole RB depth), GW isn't the one out there that can't block (your line, like everyone has been saying since last year), GW isn't the one who throws the ball out of bounds on 4th down (Bledsoe :urock: ), just sounds that your PLAYERS can't EXECUTE.

DraftBoy

10-02-2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by helmetguy
We've been giving him the benefit of the doubt for the better part of two years. Four games into this season, he has succeeded in confirming all the doubts. The team won't win BECAUSE of him; they CAN win IN SPITE of him. However, as long as HE is the one with the final say on game day, it is accurate to conclude that the team CAN lose BECAUSE of him.

Hes has been under the gun since Day 1, and every Bills fan has been all over his ass for one mistake. He has shown improvement every year. You cant argue the record we have improved under him. "The team won't win because of him"-We sure as hell beat NE ass due to some good coaching it seemed. "Can win in spite of him"-And you know this how? Magic 8 ball? "Can lose b.c of him"-yea I we can also lose because we got outplayed ala Miami.

helmetguy

10-02-2003, 01:08 PM

We have already won games in spite of him. Case in point: Jacksonville.

When Williams can answer the question of HOW we can get better in areas that need improvement; or better yet, when we SEE improvement in areas of chronic weakness, then an arguement can be made for winning WITH him at the helm.

We did beat NE and Jax. Are you saying that good coaching did that? So, he's a GOOD coach when the Bills win, but the Bills get "outplayed" when they lose?

We have better personnel on Defense than we did last year. However, against the run, we're still giving up the SAME 4.5 yards per carry as last season. Our feature running back rushed for over 1400 yards last year. At the rate we're going this year, our running attack will be lucky to reach that mark as a group. I'm curious. Is it the coaching? The execution? Can one separate the two?

MDFINFAN

10-02-2003, 10:26 PM

When you guys say you've won games insprite of GW, how do you justify that, if a coach is really bad, he'd constantly put you in position to lose every place. I've haven't had the chance to see all your games this year, but I did watch the pats game, of course Miami's game, the preseason Tennesse game, and I went to the Raven's preseason game. In all those games I didn't see anything coaching wise that's any different from Gruden, Wanny, the phillies coach, Dungy or D. Vermill. In each of the regular season games you've been it until the last 2 minutes of the game. So where's the bad coaching. Bad coaching is getting your team blown out, i.e. (Saints) or allowing teams to come back from 11 point leads with 4:58 left i.e. (Miami)..your team hasn't approached that. Last year you guys had a suspect D, a first year together and system O. and you finished 5 games better than the previous year. This season is still young, so the juries still out. But right now, this team looks better than last year, despite the losses. I can't argue with people who have follow every play, player moves or practice. But I can look at a product and base what I'm seeing from the previous year. This team is better than last year's team. How much better remains to be seen. FTG and Justa, I get your points, but I also see other points. Coming from where you were 3 years ago to now is simply outstanding. You guys literally started over almost and within 3 years are a legitimate playoff team again.

helmetguy

10-02-2003, 10:47 PM

Personnel-wise, this is a better team. However, the same problems remain-defense against the run, penalties, etc. Let's not forget, too, that what was as half-decent running game last season is nearly non-existent this year. When there is an indication that these things are being addressed and corrected, only then will I be able to acknowlege that GW is making progress.

BTW. The final straw for me on GW came after Sunday's opening kickoff. Illegal substitution by the Bills BEFORE the first play from scrimmage. Inexcuseable lapse by one who was supposed to be so organized and a fanatic about preparation.

MDFINFAN

10-02-2003, 11:03 PM

I hear ya helmetguy, the illegal thing is coaching..personnel wise you do have a good team, Spike is defintely what the hyped says he is..Adams is just what I thought he'd be. That's the cruix of your D running game. He gives up too much for someone that big. I told ya'll he'd live off his laurals of the 1st game. But I thought he'd at least play good for the first 6-7 games before he disappeared. I'm still trying to get a fix on my phins team. I'm not sure how good or bad they are right now. I look at the coach for organization, choosing the right players to start and substitute, and discipline. I look at the players for execution of plays. I also good at the coach for managing a game. I look at the players to extend his management onto the field. And you're right that starts with preparation. If GW may be guilty of anything, it might be taking it too easy in TC. But I do feel it will pay dividends down the stretch. Anyway good luck, just don't beat Miami, and I'm happy with ya...but do prepresent the AFCE.