A. Winfield - K. Thomas

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

OK, I don't usually like to start threads like this but last week there were threads on how Kevin Thomas sucks and some of you even compared him to Chris Watson. I asked for some examples and got, I don't remember every play. So I would like to know why there are two standards for Thomas and Winfield.

Kevin Thomas has been beat some this year and has been ripped apart in here.

Antowan Winfield has been constantly beat this year. His coverage is "average" at best. He was beat consistently yesterday. Yet, when most of you talk about him it's about how the Bills need to give him a contract extension and what a great tackler he is.

Comparing someone to Chris Watson is just wrong. From what I have seen Winfield's coverage compares more to Watson than Thomas.

(No I am not Kevin Thomas or anyone who knows him, I am just sick of people trying to lay blame to someone based on a couple of plays.)

[LtBillsFan66]

I saw Clements getting beat too. I think it's the coverages and the lack of passrush. The guys have to quit lining up 10 yards off the ball. They are getting beat with short stuff. And there is no one in the QBs face to force any mistakes. I would like to see them shorten up the coverage. It's riskier, but maybe more effective.

[TedMock]

I actually thought Clements had the longer day yesterday, not Winfield. I like Thomas too, I think he's solid. Winfield is a solid cover guy who's great in run support. Clements is our best cover guy but he had Chad Johnson yesterday. What people fail to realize is that as bad as Cincy's been, they're playing every game tough and even last year Kitna was a 3,000 yard passer. Chad Johnson and Peter Warwick have really come into their own and both look excellent this year. Johnson was excellent last year. The organization has sucked since Brown died but they do have some quality players. Simmons and Thornton on defense, Johnson, Dillon, and Warwick on offense. Even Kina's "ok". I think Marvin Lewis has made a difference. They're not winning yet but every game is a hell of a lot closer than before.

[BillsMan80]

Even Tasker was saying as the game went along, the Bills corners should be up, pressing the Bengal WRs and making them work to get open and get separation. I heard him say it on numerous occasions.

[Schobel94]

Winfield never got beat. Getting beat means the guy gets behind you for a big gain or a score, and that never happened. Sure, the guy he was covering caught some balls, but he never missed a tackle and it was mostly due to the scheme than Winfield himself. It's not his decision to play 10 yards off of his guy, thats just the sheme that was called, and both him and Clements allowed lots of underneath gains. Finally in the 4th quarter they pressured the recievers and didnt give up much at all. I dont know where you get off saying Winfield got beat.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Schobel94
Winfield never got beat. Getting beat means the guy gets behind you for a big gain or a score, and that never happened. Sure, the guy he was covering caught some balls, but he never missed a tackle and it was mostly due to the scheme than Winfield himself. It's not his decision to play 10 yards off of his guy, thats just the sheme that was called, and both him and Clements allowed lots of underneath gains. Finally in the 4th quarter they pressured the recievers and didnt give up much at all. I dont know where you get off saying Winfield got beat.

:up:

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

So what do you call it when a receiver is making catches while the corner is 5 yards away or on the ground?

That really isn't my point anyway. I am so sick of a guy "whatever you call it when a guy gets beat" and people like billsfever posts that the guy sucks. I can't imagine how many posts are going to be about how Coy Wire sucks this week.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by TheGhostofJimKelly
So what do you call it when a receiver is making catches while the corner is 5 yards away or on the ground?

That really isn't my point anyway. I am so sick of a guy "whatever you call it when a guy gets beat" and people like billsfever posts that the guy sucks. I can't imagine how many posts are going to be about how Coy Wire sucks this week.

You basically did the same thing to Winfield to prove your point about Kevin Thomas.

The truth is, the coverage (giving up short passes) can be much better. No one is getting burned deep.

[Tatonka]

winfield got picked on bad yesterday. this is evident by his ELEVEN SOLO TACKLES!... they were throwing at him all day long. and people were catching balls in front of him consistently. warrick specifically..

like i said before. winfield is a great tackler.. and would be an incredible LB.. but he is not a great cover guy.

i truely think he would excel at free safety, but they will never do it.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Originally posted by billsfanone


You basically did the same thing to Winfield to prove your point about Kevin Thomas.

The truth is, the coverage (giving up short passes) can be much better. No one is getting burned deep.


I hate myself!!!!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by TheGhostofJimKelly
I hate myself!!!!

Now, now. Don't be so hard on yourself. :D

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Tatonka
winfield got picked on bad yesterday. this is evident by his ELEVEN SOLO TACKLES!... they were throwing at him all day long. and people were catching balls in front of him consistently. warrick specifically..


SO DID CLEMENTS!!!!

DOES CLEMENTS SUCK TOO?

I have to start asking you guys who DOESN'T suck. The list will be much smaller.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I don't think Winfield sucks.

[don137]

I have to admit our corners have not played great the past couple of games. Too many miss coverages, bad tackling etc.

I told my friend a few plays before Tasker mentioned the Bills DB's playing off the line that I didn't understand why the Bills were doing that when Cincy was going into the wind. The Bengals were nickel and diming us. I can understand if Cincy had the wind at ther backs but the going into the wind?

[helmetguy]

Corners are going to give up catches if they are constantly asked to play off the receiver while, at the same time, the QB has time to make reads. Kitna had all day to make reads, as did McNabb, as did Feidler...

The trouble is, the players are trying to execute what the"brain mistrust" draws up. We all know how GW and Co. have ASSURED us that the scheme is PERFECT and "they" (the players) didn't execute. Ask GW. He'll tell you, "We have to get better in that area."

[Drewpac]

I think all of our corners are good, including Thomas. Every corner in the league is going to give up some catches when the opponent throws the ball over 50 times in one game. I think the Bengals longest passing play yesterday was only about 20 yards. To me, that is indicative of good secondary play.