Big Fat Mike Williams

[Tatonka]

this kid is struggling bad.

he was thoroughly owned by Ogun in miami.. and then Clemons ate him alive yesterday for 3 sacks and at least 3 more pressures that i saw.

mike got pushed around like a rag doll.

all that talk about the probowl can stop immediately. this kid is in the toilet bowl.

is the new Oline coach to blame? mike seemed to play a bit better last year.

i have no confidence in him right now though. just ugly out there..

and dont you blame a single one of those damn sacks on pucillo.. although he is not good, all the sacks were on mike, and mike alone. outside speed rushes. not inside stunts.

[Tatonka]

really wishing we would have grabbed roy williams at this point.

[elltrain22]

I think we all thought big Mike Williams was going to be great, but know i really do agree we should've drafted Roy Williams.

[TedMock]

I think Mike's gonna be fine. Actually, 2 sacks were on Campbell. I was screaming at Mike twice and when watching the replay I saw Campbell getting beat. I specifically remember 2 on Campbell and one on Jennings. I don't remember the 4th sack though.

[Tatonka]

ok.. so if, according to your description of the blocking scheme, campbell is supposed to be blocking a DEFENSIVE END alone.. who the hell was williams supposed to be blocking?

i can go for campbell should be helping mike, but to say that the two sacks are on him is crap.

mike is a first round pick.. a VERY HIGH, WELL PAID first round pick. he should be able to block a chump like clemons ALONE... WITHOUT help from the tight end.

i am not buying that...

on a passing play, mike williams should be blocking the defensive end that is on his side.. that was clemons for three sacks... so he is getting blamed.

it is alot more likely that campbell was getting beat because mike wasnt doing his job well and campbell was trying to pick up the slack, which even the best tes cant do all the time.

[TedMock]

If Campbell's lined up next to the tackle, the DE is on Campbell's outside shoulder.....2 man spots away from the tackle. I'm not saying that Williams is having a stud year but Campbell got beat on two sacks yesterday. Williams can't abandon his area to go after the guy on the outside of the TE. That would leave a huge hole even closer to the QB. Williams has to form a pocket in that situation and look to the inside first if there's a stunt or if the guard is getting beat or if there's a LB blitzing his hole. Then he looks to the outside provided there's nobody playing on him. Don't forget he's in his 2nd season. Many OT's struggle for a year or two before becoming great. Remember Ballard? He was awesome after 2 years of aggrivation. You could just see the talent but also see some stupid mistakes. Mike will be fine.

[The Spaz]

All I know is Duane Clemons of all people had 3 sacks yesterday and that is unacceptable!

[Tatonka]

maybe your right ted.. but i know for a fact that i saw mike getting beat on the last sack bledsoe took..

[stuckincincy]

Cleamons has 3 sacks - 2 in a row down by bill's EZ - bills off. play call maybe a contributor there?...

I can't imagine an NFL team who wouldn't want Mike on their squad...along with a less-confused RG.

[TedMock]

Originally posted by Tatonka
maybe your right ted.. but i know for a fact that i saw mike getting beat on the last sack bledsoe took..

that's who the last sack was on. I didn't see that one (getting a beer). I did hear the groans in the other room so I knew he was sacked.......again.

[The_Philster]

I must be thinking of a different sack but I remember a sack in my end zone in which the pressure clearly came from the left side because my eyes were on Pucillo and Williams the whole play.

[helmetguy]

Just got done watching the tape. I counted four times where Pucillo was blocking air and looking around for someone to block. I mean, he wasn't engaged with ANYONE!!! The play Phil is talking about, the pressure did eventually come from the left side. However, Pucillo was beaten straight up by his guy, and he blocked him sideways into Williams, who was coming back to help with the blitz pick-up. Right after that, Williams gave Pucillo the major ass, right directly in front of us.

The line has troubles, most of which begin with the letter P.

[Demon]

Tom Donahoe's first mistake as Bills President maybe is the mistake that will cost us a Super Bowl this season or in the near future. Mike Williams might be good at pancakes, but anything else he is terrible. We should have chose Bryant McKinnie from Miami. The guy hasn't allowed a sack in High School, college and NFL. He held out half the season last year for Minnesota and yet, when he came back noone got thru him.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Demon
Tom Donahoe's first mistake as Bills President maybe is the mistake that will cost us a Super Bowl this season or in the near future. Mike Williams might be good at pancakes, but anything else he is terrible. We should have chose Bryant McKinnie from Miami. The guy hasn't allowed a sack in High School, college and NFL. He held out half the season last year for Minnesota and yet, when he came back noone got thru him.

Not even a real option since he made it known before the draft he didn't want to be in Buffalo.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Demon
Tom Donahoe's first mistake as Bills President maybe is the mistake that will cost us a Super Bowl this season or in the near future. Mike Williams might be good at pancakes, but anything else he is terrible. We should have chose Bryant McKinnie from Miami. The guy hasn't allowed a sack in High School, college and NFL. He held out half the season last year for Minnesota and yet, when he came back noone got thru him.

that is absolutely incorrect.. he allowed a sack in his very first game in the nfl.. and i am positive that he has allowed more since.. everyone does..

know your facts though.. i watched his first game with my own eyes and saw him give up his first sack, because the out of shape, greedy ass POS held out for the half the year.

[colin]

Mc lets up a sack or two in most games, against weak ass D too.

He is a better pass blocker than Mike (that might change in the future) but no where near the run blocker (notice travis played just a touch better last season than the year before?).

Bills fans are always down on some top players, and give some real half assed guys a pass.

[Demon]

Originally posted by Tatonka


that is absolutely incorrect.. he allowed a sack in his very first game in the nfl.. and i am positive that he has allowed more since.. everyone does..

know your facts though.. i watched his first game with my own eyes and saw him give up his first sack, because the out of shape, greedy ass POS held out for the half the year.

I am just basing it on what i heard a talk show host say on Sporting News radio the other night (Rick Bellou). They had a whole segment about him how he held out and came back and hasn't allowed a sack yet in the NFL, college and HS.

[Demon]

Originally posted by The_Philster


Not even a real option since he made it known before the draft he didn't want to be in Buffalo.

Did he also say he wouldn't play on turf?

[rsmithgi]

Nice to see all of you Bills fans coming around about Tom 'the genius' Donahoe.

- Williams is proving to be a bad pick at #4 overall.
- Josh Reed is looking bad.
- Ryan Denney is a joke.
- Chris Kelsay can't beat out a joke.

I give him plenty of credit for the 2001 draft though. 5 key contributors from one draft. That one was amazing.

If you're interested - www.drafthistory.com

[Brian Griese Rulz]

Shoulf of Drafted McKinnie

[eyedog]

Originally posted by Brian Griese Rulz
Shoulf of Drafted McKinnie

Thanks genius. Most of us have already came to that conclusion. To late now. Mike has to get better or moved inside to guard.

[Demon]

Originally posted by rsmithgi
Nice to see all of you Bills fans coming around about Tom 'the genius' Donahoe.

- Williams is proving to be a bad pick at #4 overall.
- Josh Reed is looking bad.
- Ryan Denney is a joke.
- Chris Kelsay can't beat out a joke.

I give him plenty of credit for the 2001 draft though. 5 key contributors from one draft. That one was amazing.

If you're interested - www.drafthistory.com

Yeah, not to mention wasting money on Gregg Williams and Eddie Robinson.

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by eyedog


Thanks genius. Most of us have already came to that conclusion. To late now. Mike has to get better or moved inside to guard.

first of all, the thought of a 380lb gaurd is hillarious.

The problem with Mike is the same problem i had with him coming out of college, it seems he relies more on power than technique. Give him time, im sure he will come around.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Brian Griese Rulz
Shoulf of Drafted McKinnie

:lol:

[eyedog]

Originally posted by venis2k1
first of all, the thought of a 380lb gaurd is hillarious.

The problem with Mike is the same problem i had with him coming out of college, it seems he relies more on power than technique. Give him time, im sure he will come around.

Whats so hilarious about a 380 lb guard. If he relies more on power than technique he would be better of on the inside then outside. What is hilarious is this #4 pick getting beat by speed rushers every week and most of the guys beating him are average NFL defensive ends. That is hilarious.

[Ingtar33]

Mike Williams was responsible for 1 sack last game not 3

2 were RB/TE missed blocks... Campbell has allowed a total of 4 sacks this year HIMSELF, which is the second most of anyone on the bills... Pucillo also has 6. Mike Williams is credited for 2 sacks.

McKinnie has given up 5 this year, after giving up 6 last year... who ever claims that McK has given up none doesn't know what they're talking about

[eyedog]

Mike Williams credited with two sacks ? I don't know who's crediting these or how but they always seem to be coming from his end. The Miami game I can recall two where the end just ran around him ?????

[eyedog]

Also if Campbell has given up four sacks as you say then why the hell isn't he on the bench then ?

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by eyedog
Also if Campbell has given up four sacks as you say then why the hell isn't he on the bench then ?

because he can catch.

[The Seahag]

Big Mike was dominant in the opening weeks of the season; just thrashing people all over the place. The last two weeks he's been battling some sort of leg injury (hammy?) which makes it very difficult to move efficiently while maintaining a solid base. I wonder if this injury has anything to do with a drop-off in his play, particularly vs Cinci.
For what it's worth at least one fo the sacks being mentioned was Pucillo's as he chased the DT too far outside on the twist.
Additionally, giving Campbell grief for his poor passprotection is sort of silly because a)most TE's aren't worth two turds in pass protection and b)the staff shouldn't even be asking him to do it. The spate of injuries to most of our best blocking backs is probably the reason they are. Hell they had JoshReed in teh backfield last week working protection. Hopefuly when we get Morris back and have Travis healthy, it should cease to be much of an issue.

[Doc]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
Mike Williams was responsible for 1 sack last game not 3

2 were RB/TE missed blocks... Campbell has allowed a total of 4 sacks this year HIMSELF, which is the second most of anyone on the bills... Pucillo also has 6. Mike Williams is credited for 2 sacks.

McKinnie has given up 5 this year, after giving up 6 last year... who ever claims that McK has given up none doesn't know what they're talking about

Where'd you get those sacks-given-up stats, Ingtar? I checked STATS, Inc. and they had McKinnie at 4.75 and Williams at 7.5.