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G. Host
10-08-2003, 05:02 PM
Elway and Barry Sanders are a lock which does not help chances of Kent Hull, Darryl Talley, Ralph Wilson and Steve Tasker of getting in.

Jimmy 'the jerk' Johnson is also eligible and you know infatuated some of the writers were of the Cowpokes and their posse.

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1633296)

Along with Elway and Sanders who do you think will be elected?
LABillzFan
10-08-2003, 05:11 PM
Ralph should be a lock. No question.
G. Host
10-08-2003, 05:43 PM
They will let Paul Tagliabue (buttering up head of league) or Ron Wolf in first unfortunately no matter how much he deserves it.
Jetfanmack
10-08-2003, 06:02 PM
Joe Klecko should get in...
The_Philster
10-08-2003, 08:30 PM
Richard Dent will be in
Jan Reimers
10-09-2003, 08:29 AM
Ralph will make it, but none of the three former Bills players.
Thailog80
10-09-2003, 09:32 AM
HOF eligable candidates (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1633296)

Elway and Sanders(Barry) are locks! After that its going to be tough. So many people who are worthy of the HOF. I dont think Hull has a chance this year. I think he's deserving but being a Bill with so many other " Big" names there hurts him. Just MHO.
njsue
10-09-2003, 09:50 AM
I am praying Steve Tasker goes in.
SABURZFAN
10-09-2003, 10:19 AM
there's quite a few names on there that DON'T deserve to be on there.
Thailog80
10-09-2003, 10:21 AM
Like JJ? Makes me want to vomit to think of that smug POS in the HOF.
deviljets7
10-09-2003, 10:29 AM
Klecko should definately get into the hall
stuckincincy
10-09-2003, 11:14 AM
Alfred E. Newman: "What, me worry?"

Barry Sanders: "What, me block?"
stuckincincy
10-09-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Thailog80
HOF eligable candidates (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1633296)

Elway and Sanders(Barry) are locks! After that its going to be tough. So many people who are worthy of the HOF. I dont think Hull has a chance this year. I think he's deserving but being a Bill with so many other " Big" names there hurts him. Just MHO.

My picks:

Stabler
Monk
Wagner
Guy
Dent
Elway.
Thailog80
10-09-2003, 11:23 AM
No Sanders? Yeah right?
stuckincincy
10-09-2003, 11:30 AM
My picks not their picks.

Nick Eddy and Mel Farr did more for the Detriot franchise than BS did, other than TV coverage. :rocket:
don137
10-09-2003, 12:06 PM
I really don't think JJ will get in. He was not in the league long enough plus he did nothing while he was coaching Miami. I doubt all winning Super Bowl coaches are in the HOF. If he never had all those draft picks from the Walker trade I wonder if he would of led his team to a super bowl.
HenryRules
10-09-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by don137
I really don't think JJ will get in. He was not in the league long enough plus he did nothing while he was coaching Miami. I doubt all winning Super Bowl coaches are in the HOF. If he never had all those draft picks from the Walker trade I wonder if he would of led his team to a super bowl.

He made the Walker trade though, didn't he?

He made the draft picks, didn't he?

How can you hold that against him?
G. Host
10-09-2003, 02:59 PM
Because most of what he obtained was unearned - either thru by gift or by crook (Jerry Jones).

Interesting Hershal Walker is nominated same year as Pork Face Satan!
E-Klips
10-09-2003, 03:08 PM
What did he coach, like 8 years? I don't think he'll get in. Sure he won 2 Super Bowls as coach, but he didn't put in as many years as a lot of coaches have.

My choices would be Ralph Wilson, Kent Hull (yep, that's the Bills fan in me talking), Barry Sanders, John Elway, Ray Guy, and Jim Marshall.
HenryRules
10-09-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by E-Klips
What did he coach, like 8 years? I don't think he'll get in. Sure he won 2 Super Bowls as coach, but he didn't put in as many years as a lot of coaches have.

I'd say he won 2 as a coach and 3 as a GM (really, what did Barry Switzer do for the 3rd SB? - it was Jimmy's players and schemes).

Also, it was not purely the players that got Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys those Super Bowls - look at the coaching staff he assembled (and as a result, his impact on the game). I'm not sure, but I'd say 3 or 4 eventual head coaches were on his staff - that's an eye for coaching talent not seen to often.

I consider Marv Levy to be a Hall of Fame coach, and I can't say that I think his achievements are any better than what Jimmy Johnson did (and I'd say Levy's are worse).
E-Klips
10-09-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by HenryRules
I'd say he won 2 as a coach and 3 as a GM (really, what did Barry Switzer do for the 3rd SB? - it was Jimmy's players and schemes).

Also, it was not purely the players that got Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys those Super Bowls - look at the coaching staff he assembled (and as a result, his impact on the game). I'm not sure, but I'd say 3 or 4 eventual head coaches were on his staff - that's an eye for coaching talent not seen to often.

I consider Marv Levy to be a Hall of Fame coach, and I can't say that I think his achievements are any better than what Jimmy Johnson did (and I'd say Levy's are worse).


"....coaching talent not seen too often"? It's the same old thing in the NFL: people copy what is successful. How many assistants of Bill Walsh became head coaches? More than 4, I think. Hell, Brian Billick has had 2 former assistants become head coaches and Bill Cowher has had at least 4 become head coaches. It's really more common than you think it is.
HenryRules
10-09-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by E-Klips



"....coaching talent not seen too often"? It's the same old thing in the NFL: people copy what is successful. How many assistants of Bill Walsh became head coaches? More than 4, I think. Hell, Brian Billick has had 2 former assistants become head coaches and Bill Cowher has had at least 4 become head coaches. It's really more common than you think it is.

Bill Walsh and Bill Cowher are both HOF coaches IMO.

Brian Billick is pretty close as well if he continues to coach as he has.
E-Klips
10-09-2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by HenryRules
Bill Walsh and Bill Cowher are both HOF coaches IMO.

Brian Billick is pretty close as well if he continues to coach as he has.


Well, Walsh IS a Hall of Fame coach and Cowher may become one, though he's not 'in the bag' by any means.

But Billick? This is the guy who was hired from Minnesota because of his offensive genius, yet he won the championship on the strength of his DEFENSE! They were a much better offensive team with Ted Marchibroda as their coach!! I give the coacing props to guys like Marvin Lewis and Jack Del Rio when it comes to their defense, but I don't know how great Billick is! If he's great in any way, it's staying out of the way of the defensive coaches.
HenryRules
10-09-2003, 03:50 PM
E-Klips ... fine, you disagree with me on Billick ... the point still stands that Jimmy Johnson had more of his assistants become head coaches than Billick and the only 2 with similar numbers you named are either in the hall or possibly will be there - not helping your case that JJ doesn't belong in the hall.

Btw, I agree Cowher is not "in the bag" but he was one of the 3 or 4 most successful coaches of the 90s and didn't have a big-spending owner to do help him.
HenryRules
10-09-2003, 03:52 PM
Actually ... nevermind about the Billick thing ... I was thinking Belicheck (?), not Billick. My bad - Billick is most def. not HOF-material.
E-Klips
10-09-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by HenryRules
E-Klips ... fine, you disagree with me on Billick ... the point still stands that Jimmy Johnson had more of his assistants become head coaches than Billick and the only 2 with similar numbers you named are either in the hall or possibly will be there - not helping your case that JJ doesn't belong in the hall.

Btw, I agree Cowher is not "in the bag" but he was one of the 3 or 4 most successful coaches of the 90s and didn't have a big-spending owner to do help him.

Who knows how it will end up? The Hall has their own agenda when it comes to inductions and nobody knows what that is except them.

I stand by my belief that Jimmy Johnson should not be in the Hall of Fame. There are situations when someone should be in without a long tenure, like Gale Sayers, but that was because of a terrible injury which shortened his career. A bit different than Jimmy's case. Jimmy got to Miami, away from Jerry Jones and his checkbook, and found that he wasn't quite the genius everyone else thought; he destroyed the chemistry of the team, he alienated the team's greatest player because he didn't fit his style, and his drafts were poor-really, trading down to end up with 15 5th round picks, none of which pan out? Oh yeah, and he failed to deliver a championship to Miami in his time there.

Cowher was very good in his role, but remember it was a role. HE didn't keep that team winning by himself, he was helped by a great staff and, more importantly, great management support from Donahoe, Rooney, and Colbert. Personally, I'd like to see Cowher get in when it's all said and done. Maybe he will.
E-Klips
10-09-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by HenryRules
Actually ... nevermind about the Billick thing ... I was thinking Belicheck (?), not Billick. My bad - Billick is most def. not HOF-material.

Belichick? Hmm. I don't know. He had a pretty sorry stint in Cleveland (they had NO love for him when he left there), but did bounce back by learning from Parcells in New York and New England (maybe there's hope for Gregg Williams after all; if Belichick can make a comeback, maybe Gregg can too). I'll wait to see him a few years removed from the championship to see about him; will they continue to slide, or will he keep things together?
HenryRules
10-09-2003, 04:10 PM
At the end of Marino's career in Miami, I don't think anyone could have won with that team.


The aging Marino was impossible to build a team around that would be any better than 9-7.

I bet that JJ wanted to trade Marino, a la Walker, but ownership wouldn't let him. JJ needed to have an owner like Jones in Miami - not the big bucks, but someone who was willing to take risks. Jones has now twice let go of his biggest marquis player at the behest of his head coach, ownership in Miami would not have let Johnson get rid of Miami and that is precisely what was needed there.

Also, aside from Sanders, who was not one of the major building blocks in Dallas, very little of Jerry Jones' paycheck was used to bring players into Dallas ... most of the main players were developed/drafted within.

I'm done for the day, so I won't respond anymore ... you get last word if you want.
E-Klips
10-09-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by HenryRules
At the end of Marino's career in Miami, I don't think anyone could have won with that team.


The aging Marino was impossible to build a team around that would be any better than 9-7.

I bet that JJ wanted to trade Marino, a la Walker, but ownership wouldn't let him. JJ needed to have an owner like Jones in Miami - not the big bucks, but someone who was willing to take risks. Jones has now twice let go of his biggest marquis player at the behest of his head coach, ownership in Miami would not have let Johnson get rid of Miami and that is precisely what was needed there.

Also, aside from Sanders, who was not one of the major building blocks in Dallas, very little of Jerry Jones' paycheck was used to bring players into Dallas ... most of the main players were developed/drafted within.

I'm done for the day, so I won't respond anymore ... you get last word if you want.

We'll just have to agree to disagree when it comes to JJ. Cowher and Belichick are still up for debate.

Nice debating with ya!