Just curious,...

[WG]

Everyone blames the play-calling and coaching first. Drew continues to get a pass by many.

But let me ask this, I'll throw out some players and then I'm curious why many seem to think it's the coaching and not the talent at these individual positions.

Denney: We'll assume that no other of our DEs are better since they don't play in his place.

How many OTs are there in the league that Denney can beat one-on-one?

Adams: Many of you rave about Adams, but he rarely goes up against anything other than a single team and still doesn't make any tackles. What, 6 all season and most if not all of those were in the first couple of games.

Posey: The man can run around, but he's not good at reading things and often overpursues. He's not a great tackler and isn't that great against the run.

Fletcher: He simply can't cover TEs or RBs v. the pass. He's awful and only mediocre against the run and is constantly missing tackles.

So why is it necessarily the coaching? Couldn't it just be that we were sold a bill of goods about those players and that they're highly overrated by TD?

B/c it seems to me that if you have such inadequacies in talent, then there's no way you're gonna compete with half a line and an extremely overrated LBing crew.

It's easy to say "rah, rah, go Bills" and tell others they're not fans, but it's much more difficult to think that perhaps you favorite players aren't really as good as you think, or would like to think, actually are!

And if they're not as good, then even better coaching isn't going to turn a piece of dirty tin into a golden idol.

[WG]

P.S. Not to say the coaching isn't an issue. I think we're all in unison that it is.

[Dman]

Wys..just an observation on Posey...
Why does he play decently in Houston's system and then comes here and turns into Newman?

[venis2k1]

1. this is pretty much Dennys rookie year, you have to give him a little bit of a pass.

2.Adams was pretty much all that was available. and TD got him Cheap, cant ask for much more than that.

3. I think that Posey has been great, considering i didnt really expect him to do much of anything.

4. Fletch is overrated, he is always over pursuing and taking bad angles, BUT he is in on every tackle, and if he sucks, its not from lack of effort, its from lack of talent.

[R. Rich]

I think you're onto something, Wys. I was just watching a tape I made of Howard Simon's show and he was saying something to that effect to one of his callers. He told the guy that maybe this team is overrated and that they don't have the talent to be as good as we all thought. I know that some of these players, like Pussywillow and Denney, need to be backups. We do need some big time talent up front, at DE, DT, and the interior of the OL. Hopefully, that will come our way this offseaon. Then, we can really expect to see some results. I think we're okay, for the most part, everywhere else. We could use a high draft pick to get a QB to succeed Drew, since he's not going to play forever and there is nobody in place now.

[WG]

Originally posted by Dman
Wys..just an observation on Posey...
Why does he play decently in Houston's system and then comes here and turns into Newman?

IDK. But to counter that, why did he play miserably for 4 or 5 seasons prior to a single year last year and why did we expect that under a completely different system that he would match his last year's performances, or better them, vice not reverting back to the ways that he's borne out for over 80% of his career as I suggested way back when we picked him up?

Got an answer?

Simple odds I'd say or that perhaps his system, with very good defenders and a solid DL perhaps aided his play.

A lot of people looked at him as a playmaker instead of perhaps a player who benefitted from the play of the team, a stronger team than he now has, around him.

Also, in a 3-4 as an OLB you can more easily rush the passer w/o the resulting holes in the mid-secondary.

What's your answer to your own question as well?

[WG]

Originally posted by venis2k1
1. this is pretty much Dennys rookie year, you have to give him a little bit of a pass.

2.Adams was pretty much all that was available. and TD got him Cheap, cant ask for much more than that.

3. I think that Posey has been great, considering i didnt really expect him to do much of anything.

4. Fletch is overrated, he is always over pursuing and taking bad angles, BUT he is in on every tackle, and if he sucks, its not from lack of effort, its from lack of talent.

1. Not true. Denney got plenty of playing time last year and on top of that he was a trade up second rounder. He should be better than he is and at least showing that he can beat an OT once in a while. Can you name one that we've played that he's beaten with even the slightest of regularity?

2. Not true. Thornton was available and we didn't even try to get him. The posters will tell you that we "wouldn't have gotten Spikes w/o Thornton going to the Bungals", but there is nothing out there to add validity to that other than opinions here. Lewis never said that. Nor did TD. Meanwhile we didn't even make a move to get him.

Besides, suppose what you say is true. Does that mean you rush out and pay a player like Adams $2M for play that you already have on your roster? Doesn't make any sense.

3. While you may not have expected him to do anything, others have. Others around you expected much more than we've gotten. As to 'great', I don't know how you can qualify his play v. runs as great. He's barely average there if that. He overpursues too. He's better than average as a pass rusher, but even if he were that good there, why doesn't he have more than 2.5 sacks?

Doesn't make sense that he's 'great.'

4. I'll agree with you mostly on Fletcher. But then why are we content w/ a below average MLB. As to his "being in on most tackles", Duh! He's a MLB w/ no DL. Stands to reason.

[Novacane]

Re: Just curious,...

Originally posted by Wys Guy


Denney: We'll assume that no other of our DEs are better since they don't play in his place.

How many OTs are there in the league that Denney can beat one-on-one?

Two! Unfortunately thier names are Jennings and Williams

[Ebenezer]

In support:
Denney: He sucks...never denied it.
Adams: Never wanted him.

In disagreement:
Posey: He is a blitz line backer...not his fault he is being asked to do things he can't do well.
Fletcher: Are you on glue?? He's a MLB. Since when is a MLB suppose to cover a TE?? I want 200 tackles and containment out of my MLB and he seems to do that just fine.

The only wrong move on the DL was not getting Vonnie Holliday...who had the same injury concerns you always complain about.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
1. Not true. Denney got plenty of playing time last year and on top of that he was a trade up second rounder. He should be better than he is and at least showing that he can beat an OT once in a while. Can you name one that we've played that he's beaten with even the slightest of regularity?

2. Not true. Thornton was available and we didn't even try to get him. The posters will tell you that we "wouldn't have gotten Spikes w/o Thornton going to the Bungals", but there is nothing out there to add validity to that other than opinions here. Lewis never said that. Nor did TD. Meanwhile we didn't even make a move to get him.

Besides, suppose what you say is true. Does that mean you rush out and pay a player like Adams $2M for play that you already have on your roster? Doesn't make any sense.

3. While you may not have expected him to do anything, others have. Others around you expected much more than we've gotten. As to 'great', I don't know how you can qualify his play v. runs as great. He's barely average there if that. He overpursues too. He's better than average as a pass rusher, but even if he were that good there, why doesn't he have more than 2.5 sacks?

Doesn't make sense that he's 'great.'

4. I'll agree with you mostly on Fletcher. But then why are we content w/ a below average MLB. As to his "being in on most tackles", Duh! He's a MLB w/ no DL. Stands to reason.

1. Denney dressed for 8 games last year...mostly on special teams. Never played more than 10 plays in a game. 3 games he never even saw the field.

2. Maybe Thornton did not want to come here? Didn't he reup pretty quickly? I also never saw you once scream that you wanted him here. Don't pick a player who is having a good season and say we should have brought him in after the fact.

4. If Fletcher had 209 tackles and still on pace for that this year with no DL, as you admit, then how can he suck??

Come on. Be reasonable.

[WG]

No, I'm not on glue.



Since when is a MLB supposed to cover a TE?

Well, when we rush 6 men, our 4 fearless linemen, Posey and Spikes, and other QBs, surprisingly, , have the wherewithall to dump the ball quickly over the middle to a RB out of the backfield or TE, who do you think is left to cover them?

Is this unusual in the NFL or something? I don't think so. It is for the Bills, but hey, there's a lot of unusual stuff on this team.

As to Posey, sure, he's a blitz LB as you say. But if he's as good as you say, then how come he doesn't have more than 2.5 sacks after half a season? Does that match the hype that was put out when he was signed? Don't think so. Even if we don't blitz as much as we should, he still lines up on a pass rush w/ the line in essentially what is a blitz, and he's still not putting up better numbers than I figured he would when we signed him. He's more on pace w/ his 5 "less than spectacular" seasons vice last season on a team w/ a very good defense that played a completely different scheme.

Does this mean that coaching doesn't feed into it? Absolutely not. Coaching is key. But we can't use coaching as 100% of the excuse as to why Posey's production, which is nominal at best, is so low.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Is this unusual in the NFL or something? I don't think so. It is for the Bills, but hey, there's a lot of unusual stuff on this team.

Name me other MLBs that cover TEs! Yes they sometimes cover backs out of the backfield but TEs? Rarely.

[WG]

Originally posted by Ebenezer


1. Denney dressed for 8 games last year...mostly on special teams. Never played more than 10 plays in a game. 3 games he never even saw the field.

2. Maybe Thornton did not want to come here? Didn't he reup pretty quickly? I also never saw you once scream that you wanted him here. Don't pick a player who is having a good season and say we should have brought him in after the fact.

4. If Fletcher had 209 tackles and still on pace for that this year with no DL, as you admit, then how can he suck??

Come on. Be reasonable.

1. What? You sit there and count plays that Denney played?

He played regularly towards the end of the season and often at DE. He was used in a regular rotation there. Sure, he didn't see many plays. But again, expectations for a second rounder are a tad bit higher than needing three seasons to "come around."

And let me ask you, is he showing you signs, that no one else can see, that there's much hope! I'm not seein' it if there is. I routinely see him struggle, immensely I might add, against just about every OT he faces. He doesn't require double-teams in the least. So it's not like he's a half a season away!

2. Did we even ask him or his agent? B/c there were absolutely no quotes, at least no that I saw and I was looking for them at the time, in the media. So how do we know? Do you have ESP?

4. So what you're saying is that # of tackles defines a MLB, right?

OK. I think that many of those will simply be made b/c guys like Adams are missing them and that when you play in the middle of the field you're likely to walk into a hundred of those whether you try or not.

He's slow to the corners, makes a bunch of those tackles from behind. And I'm not saying he's bad against the run, IMO he's very average tho. But he can't cover at all and if you disagree, then you're simply not watching him.

I think we can do better at MLB fairly easily. I wouldn't say he's overpaid, but I would say we can do better. If you're content, then what can I say.

[WG]

Originally posted by Ebenezer


Name me other MLBs that cover TEs! Yes they sometimes cover backs out of the backfield but TEs? Rarely.

Come on. What is this a joke?

If a TE is anywhere near Ray Lewis on a blitz, then he's all over him like glue!

I detect an assumption here that I said that's Fletcher's primary role. Clearly that's not the case.

But on an obvious pass play where the D blitzes, WTH do you think the MLB is supposed to do? Wait for the run? Or is he the game observer at that point. Sheesh...

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Ebenezer




2. Maybe Thornton did not want to come here? Didn't he reup pretty quickly? I also never saw you once scream that you wanted him here. Don't pick a player who is having a good season and say we should have brought him in after the fact.

He was calling for Thorton before FA even began. I remember it and I am sure others do too.