View Full Version : This is very distressing to read...
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 10:44 AM
Tom Donahoe as quoted in the Buffalo News...
"I think everybody is working hard," Donahoe said Monday night on "The Buffalo Bills Midseason Report" on Channel 7. "I think Gregg, all his coaches, you know, we haven't given up on this season. We're 4-4. We're still in the thick of it.
"I've always believed, all the years that I've been in the league, that the first seven, eight games, you just have to try to stay in the hunt. The good teams will begin to separate themselves in November and December. I'm pleased overall with the effort of our staff, the effort of our players. We're looking forward to the second half."
Pleased overall with the effort of the staff and players??":scratch::eek: What is he on crack?? This obviously must mean that no changes are coming coachwise.:shakeno:
Novacane
10-28-2003, 10:46 AM
Donahoe is an @$$.
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 10:48 AM
Geesh, what do you expect him to say? Our coaching sucks and we have no chance??
Come on fellas, he's just doing what any good manager does. He has to be careful or the players will totally quit. That would have an impact well into next year.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 10:53 AM
If it was me I would say that I was not happy with the way things are going and the way the team has played as of late is unacceptable...he should start holding some people accountable and if any player or coach doesn't like it then get rid of their underachieving a$$es. I would also start cleaning house beginning with two of the most arrogant coaches on the staff in Williams and Gilbride.
venis2k1
10-28-2003, 10:53 AM
I expect him to say GW sucks, and he is fired as of now.
Novacane
10-28-2003, 10:54 AM
He could say a lot of things other than "I'm pleased overall with the effort of our staff, the effort of our players." If he means that than he means he is pleased with less than 100% effort.
stuckincincy
10-28-2003, 10:58 AM
Sighted Season Sank Same...:madcurse:
Jan Reimers
10-28-2003, 11:01 AM
Whatever TD says must be true. He's a genius, you know.
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Geesh, what do you expect him to say? Our coaching sucks and we have no chance??
Come on fellas, he's just doing what any good manager does. He has to be careful or the players will totally quit. That would have an impact well into next year.
You have a point AW, but let's get real here. He's trying to pull the wool over our eyes. This either suggests that TD is an idiot or playing the fans for fools! Some fans like .... :D, ...
Seriously tho, I expect him to say "we're gonna try and iron out the issues that this team has and we'll hopefully be able to rebound!"
That would be a credible statement.
NOT
"I've always believed, all the years that I've been in the league, that the first seven, eight games, you just have to try to stay in the hunt. The good teams will begin to separate themselves in November and December. I'm pleased overall with the effort of our staff, the effort of our players. We're looking forward to the second half."
Yeah Tom, good teams really don't show up in the beginning of the season when the schedule's the easiest. they wait for the tough weather with a QB who has a history of playing like ***** in it! Why try and "separate yourself" in Sept. and Oct.
You're "pleased w/ the effort of your staff and the effort of your players" Tom???
Perhaps it's time that you stepped down then! B/c nary a fan is pleased with much of anything that's coming from OBD these days!
Either they guy thinks that the fans, that's you folks, are stupid, or he himself is stupid! It's gotta be on or the other here.
Frankly, I'm not sure which it is...
Perhaps we're calling on the wrong person to make changes.
Perhaps we should be beseeching Wilson to clean house entirely!!!
Those quotes are the biggest bunch of BS I've heard outta TD yet!
Novacane
10-28-2003, 11:01 AM
I don't even have a problem with him saying he is pleased with the effort of his staff. I am sure they giving it everything they've got. They are just not any good at what they're doing.
The players on the other hand..................................if he is truely happy with the effort he got the last 6 weeks he is basically admitting he brought in players that are not that good.
Oh, and Tom, you're looking forward to the second half are ya?
At least you are!
I know I'm not! This season can't end fast enough for me at this point!
With statements like that Tom, you'd better hope we put Dallas and Houston away but good! If we somehow lose to both, you're a goner with statements like that. And should be quite frankly.
Those quotes anger me.
Originally posted by Fairway To Green
The players on the other hand..................................if he is truely happy with the effort he got the last 6 weeks he is basically admitting he brought in players that are not that good.
GREAT point!
Originally posted by Jan Reimers
Whatever TD says must be true. He's a genius, you know.
Dontcha know...
:D
Novacane
10-28-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Those quotes anger me.
Me too. With statments like that he must think we're stupid.
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 11:12 AM
Who else can you guys turn on? I think you've pretty much covered all the bases. Oh wait....you haven't called for Ralph Wilson's head....YET. :rolleyes:
Being frustrated is fine, but some of you are taking panic to new level. If we listened to you, we'd have to fire every single player and coach and the GM. That would really solve the problem :rolleyes:
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I don't even have a problem with him saying he is pleased with the effort of his staff. I am sure they giving it everything they've got. They are just not any good at what they're doing.
The players on the other hand..................................if he is truely happy with the effort he got the last 6 weeks he is basically admitting he brought in players that are not that good.
I have a problem with him saying both because if he is truely happy with the effort he got from the coaches and players the last 6 weeks he is basically admitting he brought in players and coaches that are not that good.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Who else can you guys turn on?
What's the GatorAde boy's name....??:D:snicker::idunno:
Novacane
10-28-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Who else can you guys turn on? I think you've pretty much covered all the bases. Oh wait....you haven't called for Ralph Wilson's head....YET. :rolleyes:
Being frustrated is fine, but some of you are taking panic to new level. If we listened to you, we'd have to fire every single player and coach and the GM. That would really solve the problem :rolleyes:
I don't want TD fired. I just think it was stupid to say he is pleased with the effort of his players. A moron can see the effort has not been there.
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 11:17 AM
He's walking a fine line. The players probably are starting to have doubts about the entire team. He cannot crush their confidense at this point by spouting off about how poorly they have played. GM's don't last long in the league if they use the WYS school of managing technique :rolleyes:
Novacane
10-28-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by mchurchfie
I have a problem with him saying both because if he is truely happy with the effort he got from the coaches and players the last 6 weeks he is basically admitting he brought in players and coaches that are not that good.
I took it to mean he thinks the coach's are working hard which I imagine the probably are. They just suck!
The players.......................they are not gonna get fired so they don't have to work hard and it's obvious they are not.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I took it to mean he thinks the coach's are working hard which I imagine the probably are. They just suck!
The players.......................they are not gonna get fired so they don't have to work hard and it's obvious they are not.
Agreed..good point!:up:
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
He's walking a fine line. The players probably are starting to have doubts about the entire team. He cannot crush their confidense at this point by spouting off about how poorly they have played. GM's don't last long in the league if they use the WYS school of managing technique :rolleyes:
It seems to work pretty good for the "Bug Tuna." I would say that they have been more than diplomatic in that area, I think that some coaches and players need to be called out a little....starting with Gilbride. These guys are Pros, most of them playing football for all of their lives, I am sure it is nothing new to them. TD shouldn't have to worry about bringing in Dr Phil and Oprah to ask "And how does that make you feel??" after every little criticism of their very poor play.:idunno::D
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Who else can you guys turn on? I think you've pretty much covered all the bases. Oh wait....you haven't called for Ralph Wilson's head....YET. :rolleyes:
Being frustrated is fine, but some of you are taking panic to new level. If we listened to you, we'd have to fire every single player and coach and the GM. That would really solve the problem :rolleyes:
AW, what are you seeing that we're missing?
Can you point to one game v. a team that we beat that was a good, solid team either this season or last?
Just one, that wasn't surrounded by issues coming from all sides like that NE game was?
Just one? Where's the evidence that we can beat even 3 of the remaining 8 games we have with near certainty? Do you honestly believe that we have a prayer against NE in Fox, Miami, Tenn, or INdy? Barring that their entire starting passing game is missing or something bizarre?
What's this hope based on?
Do you really think that our DL is capable of stopping the Titans, Colts, Pats, Fins, or Jets?
Do you really believe that our OL is capable of playing well enough to put more than 10 or 17 points up against teams like Indy, Tennessee, the Jets, NE, Miami, Dallas, or the Giants?
Combine it all together, and where is this hope that you have coming from other than simply reaching for the sky and saying we can do anything?
What? Where?
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 11:37 AM
Tuna is a coach, TD is a GM. Totally different.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 11:39 AM
Tuna is both GM and Coach!:up:
LarryBoy
10-28-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Do you really think that our DL is capable of stopping the Titans, Colts, Pats, Fins, or Jets?
Do you really believe that our OL is capable of playing well enough to put more than 10 or 17 points up against teams like Indy, Tennessee, the Jets, NE, Miami, Dallas, or the Giants?
What? Where?
Yea, if we get rid of Bledsoe all this will be fixed. :rolleyes:
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by mchurchfie
Tuna is both GM and Coach!:up:
Not in Dallas he isn't. :shakeno:
Jerry Jones is the GM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
He's walking a fine line. The players probably are starting to have doubts about the entire team. He cannot crush their confidense at this point by spouting off about how poorly they have played. GM's don't last long in the league if they use the WYS school of managing technique :rolleyes:
GMs wouldn't be in the position TD's in if they used "Wys School of Management!"
;)
We'd have had decent lines by now if I had been managing this team! I NEVER would have hired Gilbride, not in a million years. In fact, and I took a lot of heat for this, told you as soon as he was hired that we were headed for a boatload of issues under him! Hate to say "I told you so", but if the shoe fits! That's what we get for allowing TD to hire friends.
I also screamed that that bumbling Denney deal was as bust as soon as it happened. Same for Kelsay I'll say now. If he was anything at all for a "shouldabeen first rounder", then he'd have been playing by now, at least sparingly for a Q or two.
I wouldn't have signed Tucker, Teague, I wouldn't have started Pucillo this year or relied on him. I wouldnt' have signed Adams, Posey, Jones, or McKenzie, NONE of whom are contributing!
I most certainly wouldn't have wasted a 4th rounder on the type of WR that you can find on waivers just about any day fo the week when we had more pressing needs on the lines. Would have taken OL an DL for 4 of our first 5 picks in the first four rounds.
I would have signed a QB like Blake or another and saved us $5M to pump into the OL instead. I would have made a STRONG move to sign Thornton! Wined, dined, etc. I would have nearly kissed his shoe laces to get him to come here.
I also wouldn't have drafted a sketchy RB in the first round where if he has "swelling in his knee" the pick will look as silly as it possibly can. I wouldn't have touched Kelsay w/ a ten foot pole!
I would have used the "Milloy money" much sooner to buy a decent O or D lineman, but certainly would not have signed him to a L/T contract that is overvalued just as he turns 30 and begins the "downside" of his career. Especially when we had far more pressing needs and since it totally overrode TD's own choice of Wire by not giving him a second season to prove anything.
WTH does TD expect. Too bad he doesn't play Denney and Kelsay the same way. Give them one season and then relegate them to "some other role." If he were consistent like that, at least we'd be making some headway!
I take one thing back, the Jones signing was low risk. TD's error was relying on it that it would work out and not making any other better risk decisions in case it hasn't like it has. It shoulda been an easy assessment that to rely on Denney, McK, and Kelsay was unwise.
Ebenezer
10-28-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Who else can you guys turn on? I think you've pretty much covered all the bases. Oh wait....you haven't called for Ralph Wilson's head....YET. :rolleyes:
Being frustrated is fine, but some of you are taking panic to new level. If we listened to you, we'd have to fire every single player and coach and the GM. That would really solve the problem :rolleyes:
As much as I want GW fired I don't want TD undressing the team in public...he does that and the players quit...Clump is right about one thing, if the players quit and this team sinks to 3-13 again the stands will be empty and the team will buy out the option and be gone.
Earthquake Enyart
10-28-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Do you really think that our DL is capable of stopping the Titans, Colts, Pats, Fins, or Jets?
Yes, yes (in bad weather), yes, yes in bad weather, yes.
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Do you really believe that our OL is capable of playing well enough to put more than 10 or 17 points up against teams like Indy, Tennessee, the Jets, NE, Miami, Dallas, or the Giants?
Yes to all
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Combine it all together, and where is this hope that you have coming from other than simply reaching for the sky and saying we can do anything?
What? Where?
Based on the team I saw play NE, Jacksonville, and Washington
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Tuna is a coach, TD is a GM. Totally different.
Other than different duties they are both in positions of authority over the players so what difference would it make anyways??...other than TD might get their attention and respect a little more, which is a good thing.:idunno:
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Ebenezer
As much as I want GW fired I don't want TD undressing the team in public...he does that and the players quit...Clump is right about one thing, if the players quit and this team sinks to 3-13 again the stands will be empty and the team will buy out the option and be gone.
:bf1: Finally!!! Somebody else that understands basic management skills and the thin line we walking right now!!!
ArcticWildMan
10-28-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by mchurchfie
Other than different duties they are both in positions of authority over the players so what difference would it make anyways??...other than TD might get their attention and respect a little more, which is a good thing.:idunno:
Expecting TD to suddenly morph into Tuna is completely unrealistic. It's never been his style and it never will be. If he tried to come across as the hard ass Parcells is, it would cause more problems than it would solve. The players would see this as a desperate last ditch attempt by him and then we'd be in REAL trouble.
Parcells is a great coach, but his skills as a GM were hardly anything to write home about. Leave the GM work those who know what they are doing ;)
Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Yes, yes (in bad weather), yes, yes in bad weather, yes.
Yes to all
Based on the team I saw play NE, Jacksonville, and Washington
So on 1. you're relying on bad weather then! I suppose we are to assume that if the weather is good then, say sunny and in the 40s or 50s, we haven't a chance?
On 2, I guess we'll find out. If we can beat one or two of those teams, something that hasn't happened yet since the start of last season, then you may be right. You'll be wrong otherwise.
On 3, So you're equating playing the Skins, Cincy, and Jax to playing Indy, Tennessee, Miami, NE, Dallas then?
Seems odd, but at least you answered the questions.
Originally posted by Ebenezer
As much as I want GW fired I don't want TD undressing the team in public...he does that and the players quit...Clump is right about one thing, if the players quit and this team sinks to 3-13 again the stands will be empty and the team will buy out the option and be gone.
Let me ask you this then, what happens if the team "doesn't quit" and we finish 5-11 to 7-9? Is that much better?
BTW, we can't possibly finish 3-13, since we're 4-4 now. I think it's gonna be a minor miracle for us to beat Indy at home, Tenn. on the road, NE on the road, or even Miami at home barring a blizzard. The other four games can easily be lost as well given the way the team's playing now. So 6-10 is very possible. From a marketing perspective (ONLY) I almost think it's better if the players quit and go 5-11 than for them to try and finish 6-10 or 7-9. At least you can blame it on the coaching then and "correct the problem" which is gonna happen anyway.
Earthquake Enyart
10-28-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
So on 1. you're relying on bad weather then! I suppose we are to assume that if the weather is good then, say sunny and in the 40s or 50s, we haven't a chance?
On 2, I guess we'll find out. If we can beat one or two of those teams, something that hasn't happened yet since the start of last season, then you may be right. You'll be wrong otherwise.
On 3, So you're equating playing the Skins, Cincy, and Jax to playing Indy, Tennessee, Miami, NE, Dallas then?
Seems odd, but at least you answered the questions.
1. Not many people have had much luck stopping Indy's O or Miami's running game. But those are 2 warm weather teams plaing in Orchard Park in November and December. If it is 50 degrees and not windy (fat chance) then we obviously would have problems.
2. How soon we forget NE week 1. :shakeno:
3. I never said Cincy, did I? :eek: Out of the 5 teams you list, we have to win 3. I choose to think that that is possible.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
So on 1. you're relying on bad weather then! I suppose we are to assume that if the weather is good then, say sunny and in the 40s or 50s, we haven't a chance?
On 2, I guess we'll find out. If we can beat one or two of those teams, something that hasn't happened yet since the start of last season, then you may be right. You'll be wrong otherwise.
On 3, So you're equating playing the Skins, Cincy, and Jax to playing Indy, Tennessee, Miami, NE, Dallas then?
Seems odd, but at least you answered the questions.
:lol:
Ebenezer
10-28-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
From a marketing perspective (ONLY) I almost think it's better if the players quit and go 5-11 than for them to try and finish 6-10 or 7-9. At least you can blame it on the coaching then and "correct the problem" which is gonna happen anyway.
Wys! This is Buffalo...this team goes 5-11 and after game 1 next year (which always has 65,000 or more) you are going to have 50-60 thousand per game...it will be a marketing disaster.
RedEyE
10-28-2003, 12:33 PM
Regardless if he says it or not, it's insinuated. All of us know it ! I highly doubt that a person as intuitve as TD can't recognize inability when he sees it. He's throwing a little PC to the media and the public because THAT is the professional way of handeling things.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Expecting TD to suddenly morph into Tuna is completely unrealistic. It's never been his style and it never will be. If he tried to come across as the hard ass Parcells is, it would cause more problems than it would solve. The players would see this as a desperate last ditch attempt by him and then we'd be in REAL trouble.
The whole gist of this thread was not that I think that Donahoe should come out stark raving mad, condeming the team but that he could in a tactful way (just for us fans peace of mind:rolleyes: ) imply that he wasn't happy with the way that the last 5 of 6 games have gone and some kind of change is on the way. I think that if I were him I would be just as concerned with 80,000 fans who are disheartened because of no changes being made as I would with hurting any of the player's wittle feelings.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
Parcells is a great coach, but his skills as a GM were hardly anything to write home about. Leave the GM work those who know what they are doing ;)
I agree, drafting Bledsoe with the first pick of the draft is direct proof of that.
Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
1. Not many people have had much luck stopping Indy's O or Miami's running game. But those are 2 warm weather teams plaing in Orchard Park in November and December. If it is 50 degrees and not windy (fat chance) then we obviously would have problems.
2. How soon we forget NE week 1. :shakeno:
3. I never said Cincy, did I? :eek: Out of the 5 teams you list, we have to win 3. I choose to think that that is possible.
No EE, I haven't forgotten week 1 at all, in fact I reference it all the time. But the truth is that it was an odd game. I can honestly tell you that since '90 or so, that the only other game that I have attended with that much crowd noise, participation, and where every single player was in a zone, was maybe the KC playoff game in when was it, perhaps '91?
It was an unusually rare situation indeed and one that clearly we aren't going to be able to count on for wins.
Now if that's the only example that you have, I think you'll need to concede. We also don't regularly have 4 months to prepare for games.
mchurchfie
10-28-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by RedEyE
Regardless if he says it or not, it's insinuated. All of us know it ! I highly doubt that a person as intuitve as TD can't recognize inability when he sees it. He's throwing a little PC to the media and the public because THAT is the professional way of handeling things.
I agree RedEye, I have thought about that too....about three or four games ago. Yet here it is midway through the season and nothing is being done about it. Gilbride is still passing on 3rd and one, we still are passing more than running, the Db's are still giving the receivers 12 yard cushions, our defense is a joke...our offense is a bigger joke, GW is still trying to fit square pegs in round holes by still trying to impliment his vaunted Tennesee defense...what is he waiting for??:scratch: The professional way of handling it would be to not buy into all of the bull***** that GW is obviously enamouring him with and demand that he come up with a better gameplan, starting now. There is obviously too much freedom on this team. Gilbride and Bledsoe blow smoke up everyone's a$$es about how they need to commit to the run but yet they continue to do whatever they feel like and pass, pass, pass. God only knows how many coaches are involved with the defensive plays..I am going to guess 3 at a minimum (Gray,LeBlow, and GW.) This coaching staff is a joke and TD needs to act sooner than later to get this under control.:idunno:
Earthquake Enyart
10-28-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
It was an unusually rare situation indeed and one that clearly we aren't going to be able to count on for wins.
Now if that's the only example that you have, I think you'll need to concede. We also don't regularly have 4 months to prepare for games.
You're right. I concede. We only beat the hell out of Miami in the snow last year and whipped NE's ass in the opener. Can't happen again. Put me down for 4-12.
Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
You're right. I concede. We only beat the hell out of Miami in the snow last year and whipped NE's ass in the opener. Can't happen again. Put me down for 4-12.
Sure it can if both Fiedler and Griese go down. I don't think we would have won in Miami last year on 16 offensive points w/o a gift wrapped INT for a TD by Lucas if Fiedler had played.
Oh yeah, and 6 Fin TOs.
Call me silly. And if it takes a veritable blizzard and Lucas at QB to do it again, then I wouldn't hold my breath since the Fins have Fiedler and Griese now and the odds of a blizzard occurring are slim.
Is this what your hopes are pinned on?
If so, your prediction of 4-12 may very well come to pass. I supppose if nothing else luck could win us one.
BTW, was I dreaming when Williams had nearly 240 yards rushing last year in the second game? What if Lucas isn't the QB to compliment that? You really think we can win allowing that kind of rushing, or even half of it? :rolleyes:
Earthquake Enyart
10-28-2003, 01:51 PM
:deadhorse:
OK make it 2-14.
"We aren't out of it! What's wrong w/ you people that call yourself fans!"
:deadhorse:
:finfan: :ugly:
Billzz
10-28-2003, 02:28 PM
TD handled the situation ALOT better then Red McCombs did in Minnesota and he's the owner.
McCombs, who occasionally addresses the team following games, told players they "humiliated" the franchise with their performance because of how excited fans at the Metrodome were until the end.
The owner addressed the team in the locker room and let them have it. This is the extreme otherside of the coin but seems along the lines of the brutual truth you are asking for from TD. Remember he's also protecting HIS JOB so BS comments like he made sugar coating the piss poor execution are going to come. He would shoot himself in the foot if he didn't atleast praise the team to a degree since he brought them all here in the first friggin place.
Historian
10-28-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by RedEyE
Regardless if he says it or not, it's insinuated. All of us know it ! I highly doubt that a person as intuitve as TD can't recognize inability when he sees it. He's throwing a little PC to the media and the public because THAT is the professional way of handling things.
Very true Red. And keep one thing in mind...when these guys decide to pull the trigger, be it sooner or later, they usually do it when you least expect it.
Sort of like someone getting whacked in Goodfellas!
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