Kevin Johnson.... to BUFFALO!?!

[Skatt8011]

Supposedly according to rumors on bb.com, TD has contacted him and are looking at a 2-4 year contract.

I personally think this is a horrible idea if the years are over 1-2, I wouldnt mind him coming here for this year in an attempt to salvage the season, but to be our future #2 receiver...... NO WAY!

[BillsFever]

Kevin Johnson is a steady WR. I'll take him.

[The_Philster]

I'm in favor of it myself :up:

[The Spaz]

Hell yeah we need as many Wr's as we can in KG's offense...lol:)!

[RedEyE]

****ty cap spending if this is true

[Dozerdog]

Why not?


We have the cap space. Would you rather have Coleman?

[RedEyE]

We need ****ing OLineman

[RedEyE]

Coleman and Aiken haven't even been given the chance to play

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by RedEyE
We need ****ing OLineman

Did an O-lineman get released?

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Skatt8011
Supposedly according to rumors on bb.com, TD has contacted him and are looking at a 2-4 year contract.

I personally think this is a horrible idea if the years are over 1-2, I wouldnt mind him coming here for this year in an attempt to salvage the season, but to be our future #2 receiver...... NO WAY!

Don't forget that NFL contracts, unlike every other sport- IS NOT guaranteed. The longer the deal, usually the lower the salary & cap hit- plus any bonus
can be spread out.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by The Spaz


Did an O-lineman get released?

Have you seen them play recently?

[Dozerdog]

Kevin Johnson is better than those two - he's a proven commodity.
Originally posted by RedEyE
Coleman and Aiken haven't even been given the chance to play


Originally posted by RedEyE
We need ****ing OLineman

:rofl: Yeah- we should have signed Leonard Davis or Orlando Pace.......What O Lineman out there did we pass on?

Name him please.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Kevin Johnson is better than those two - he's a proven commodity.



:rofl: Yeah- we should have signed Leonard Davis or Orlando Pace.......

I'm just saying, what good is he if Drew can't even get the ball to him? It's a waste of money IMO.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Have you seen them play recently?

Seriously- what does that have to do with picking up a WR with talent?

Remember James Lofton? A midseason cut we picked up- turned out OK

[RedEyE]

Besides anything is better than Pucillo.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by RedEyE


Have you seen them play recently?

Yes I have and I asked if an O-linemen got released so we can pick him up. I don't think so.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE
I'm just saying, what good is he if Drew can't even get the ball to him? It's a waste of money IMO.


Cap space not spent is cap money wasted. There is still 2 million in the bank this season and 14 million next- and the NFL does not let you carry over "unused" cap space. Please- name anyone on the waiver wire you want to spend the 2 million on

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog


Seriously- what does that have to do with picking up a WR with talent?

Remember James Lofton? A midseason cut we picked up- turned out OK

True - great point.

If we are looking long term then ...sure. Immediatly there are other areas that need to be addressed. At what point do we realize that signingthese "super-stars" aren't getting us anywhere.

Does this mean that TD has thrown in the towel on his 2nd round draft pick Josh Reed?

[The_Philster]

I'm trying to get some info on Dawgtalk on what we could expect...but not having much luck posting right now...server issues, from the looks of it.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Besides anything is better than Pucillo.

No one is arguing that. We have better on the bench in Sully. But that's coaches being stubborn, not a cap issue.

Do you think this is a case of our GM "swindling" or "Fooling the masses?"

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by RedEyE
True - great point.

If we are looking long term then ...sure. Immediatly there are other areas that need to be addressed. At what point do we realize that signingthese "super-stars" aren't getting us anywhere.

Does this mean that TD has thrown in the towel on his 2nd round draft pick Josh Reed?
I don't think so. I think it means that he's trying to put as much talent on this team as possible. This isn't a case like with McGahee, IMO. Although this might be a kick in the ass to Josh to make sure he keeps his play at a high level.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog



Cap space not spent is cap money wasted. There is still 2 million in the bank this season and 14 million next- and the NFL does not let you carry over "unused" cap space.

Now this is a good explaination. I can live with this answer.

[RedEyE]

Bring him in.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE
True - great point.

If we are looking long term then ...sure. Immediatly there are other areas that need to be addressed. At what point do we realize that signingthese "super-stars" aren't getting us anywhere.

Does this mean that TD has thrown in the towel on his 2nd round draft pick Josh Reed?

No I don't- I think Reed is just fine. But for the right price- why not get depth? Kevin Johnson would have been a nice option against the Jets. If it fits $$$ wise, putting the best five WRs on the field is the name of the game (along with the best at other positions, obviously)

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE
True - great point.



Originally posted by RedEyE
Now this is a good explaination. I can live with this answer. :bravo:

[BAM]

So why did they release him? Maybe we should check that out first...

[The_Philster]

Was just over on Dawgtalk. One guy was saying he heard Kevin on the radio saying he was already in contact with McNabb and Philly.

[BAM]

Phil.... what the hell is Dawg Talk ? LOL

[The Spaz]

Johnson, 27, is subject to league waivers.


If he is claimed by another team, he must report, since the trade deadline has passed. But because he is a "vested" veteran, he has the right to declare himself an unrestricted free agent after the 2003 season. If he is unclaimed by Wednesday, which is anticipated, then Johnson becomes free to sign with any team.


His base salary for 2003 is $950,000, which means any team assuming his current deal will owe him a prorated portion based on remaining games, or about $391,000. Johnson was under contract through 2006, with scheduled base salaries of $1.45 million (2004), $1.4 million (2005) and $2.65 million (2006). There were annual workout bonuses of $100,000.


But he is also due a $2 million options bonus in 2005 and that almost certainly will preclude any club from claiming him on waivers.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by BradAlanMiller
Phil.... what the hell is Dawg Talk ? LOL

Browns message board....set up similar to Two Bills Drive's boards. I joined in the summer when we picked up Campbell. I'm a member of a number of message boards around the league. That way I can get a feel on the other teams around the league better...and help promote the Zone ;)
http://dawgtalk.clevelandbrowns.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

[BAM]

Ohhhhhh yah I gotcha now :up:

Smart idea. :) I thought it was some Inside the NFL radio station or something you had.. LOL.

Cool :D

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by BradAlanMiller
Ohhhhhh yah I gotcha now :up:

Smart idea. :) I thought it was some Inside the NFL radio station or something you had.. LOL.

Cool :D
I started doing that kind of stuff (checking out the opposition) when I was on usenet years ago. It's a little more work with registered boards but you get a better feel of what the actual fan thinks rather than just trash talk.

[G. Host]

Originally posted by Dozerdog No one is arguing that. We have better on the bench in Sully. But that's coaches being stubborn, not a cap issue.

Do you think this is a case of our GM "swindling" or "Fooling the masses?"

I think Sullivan was a wasted roster slot after first preseason game. I am surprised he was not cut. He regressed severely since previous year and he was the weak man on the line.

I am not saying Pucillo was great but Sullivan looked like he just occupied space. I suspect there was some event in his life which changed him and coaches were hoping he would come around.

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Why not?


We have the cap space. Would you rather have Coleman?

I'm surprised your still married! Heck, if you gave your wife as much time as you'd give these rookies she'd have been history decades ago.

:biggrin:

[WG]

I was just thinkin' how much we needed another WR!

:rolleyes:

I sure hope it wasn't for more than vet min!

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


I'm surprised your still married! Heck, if you gave your wife as much time as you'd give these rookies she'd have been history decades ago.

:biggrin:

This statement doesn't make any sense.

[Tatonka]

kevin johnson has been their most consistent receiver for years. he is only 27 years old. he is a good good wr.. my best friend is a browns fan...

look.. we obviously are not going to just become a power running team with the coaches we have.

anything to help us win is ok with me.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I was just thinkin' how much we needed another WR!

:rolleyes:

I sure hope it wasn't for more than vet min!


1- He hasn't signed with anyone yet

2- can you name me a single player unemployed right now you want to pick up?

And Coleman isn't a babe out of the woods- he's had a few camps

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I was just thinkin' how much we needed another WR!

:rolleyes:

I sure hope it wasn't for more than vet min!

That was my point exactly. Why not bring him in though? Money is there........besides, misery loves company.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'm surprised your still married! Heck, if you gave your wife as much time as you'd give these rookies she'd have been history decades ago.

:biggrin:

Wys- don't bring my wife into this

[Tatonka]

he puts the smiley face on it to keep it from looking like a rude ass comment.


:rolleyes:

[Mr. Miyagi]

I say bring him in. We can use all the help we can get.

[socalfan]

I say bring him in if he complements E Moulds and he runs 40s under 4.3. Otherwise we still do not have a legitimate second receiver and we'll have way to many guys competing for time in practice and their skills won't improve.

[clumping platelets]

Cap is not a concern.

There's not much out there in the way of "street FAs". The chance to sign a decent player comes along rarely. Kevin Johnson clearly wore out his welcome in Cleveland (he should not have re-signed). If he comes here and plays well and behaves.......win/win.

[Turf]

Hopefully we bring in 2-3 more pro bowl caliper wide recievers ASAP, so we can start running the ball again.

[Ingtar33]

KJ was not a favorite of Butch Davis... Davis disliked him personally from the first minute they met and held KJ to the standard where he expected him to be a pro-bowl WR.

Well, KJ is what he is... he is in essence Peerless Price. A fast WR, with decent (not great) hands, and a penchant for breaking a big play from nothing. He doesn't have the talents to be a true dominant no.1 WR, but he is a perfect speed burning second wr.

[TigerJ]

Interesting. Johnson has more speed than PP. From the article on BB.com he's dropped a few balls. Butch Davis also doesn't think much of his blocking. The main reason I could see TD considering trying to sign him is the thought that maybe the offence is sputtering because of the loss of PP. If KG was able to sell him on that notion, KG is in the wrong business (which we already knew). He could make a killing selling swamp land. Still Kevin Johnson can be a productive receiver who would probably be the second best guy on the Bills.

[STAMPY]

great move we get a number 1 quiality guy similar to price

[BuffaloRanger]

Interesting. I read on ESPN.Com that he had great hands but not speed.



"Never noted for his speed, Johnson nonetheless led the Browns in receptions in each of his first four seasons in Cleveland, and topped the team in catches again this year. Many scouts feel he has the best hands of any wide receiver in the NFL and that, while he lacks the playmaker skills of a "lead" wideout, is a prototype No. 2 wide receiver."

ESPN Link (Toward Bottom of Article) (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1659541)

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by G. Host
I think Sullivan was a wasted roster slot after first preseason game. I am surprised he was not cut. He regressed severely since previous year and he was the weak man on the line.

I am not saying Pucillo was great but Sullivan looked like he just occupied space. I suspect there was some event in his life which changed him and coaches were hoping he would come around.
I wasn't at training camp but from what I've seen , Pucillo has been worse than Sullivan. Marques never helped the defense sack Drew.

[askabry]

KJ needs to pass through waiver wires before he can come to Buffalo. He's gone before we get to the dinner table.

That said, you simply need KJ to come here and be the #1 receiver. Emo is hurting the team right now with his heroics, and my greater fear is that he's jeopardizing his future by extending his groin.

I'm not 100% sure KJ is better than the future of a Reed or the development of Aiken/Coleman. I AM sure that today, right now, he can assume the role of #1 receiver better than either Shaw or Reed.

FWIW ... that crap about his speed? He was timed as 4.35 out of Syracuse, so don't tell me he isn't fast enough. He's faster than either of our current #2 guys, and probably damn close to Moulds.

At this point, KJ represents a bandaid on a ruptured artery ... but given my druthers, today and tomorrow I'd rather have him lined up than Shaw or Reed.

[Dozerdog]

I bet they got it backwards at ESPN. Wasn't KJ a backup QB at Syracuse converted to WR with McNabb at the helm?

[askabry]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


I'm surprised your still married! Heck, if you gave your wife as much time as you'd give these rookies she'd have been history decades ago.

:biggrin:

oh I see ... like the time you were willing to give Travis Henry? That must be it, right? You want us to give Coleman and Aiken 10 or 12 starts before we jump ship. And while we're at it...Bannan, Puccillo, Denney ... how much time do they get?

Funny how you take your timeline as it pleases you.

Win now. Win today. If the rookies are good enough to play, play them and let them help you win games...otherwise, sign free agent veterans and let THEM win games for you. The best players play and help you win. This isn't college; we're not training players for some future that might occur with our team or with another team.

Let's see ... where did have I seen this scenario play itself out? Oh yeah. Bill Belichek.:travel:

[Patrick76777]

IMO, the three biggest issues with this team right not are in this order:

1 - A OC who can run the damn ball
2 - A DE who can rush the passer
3 - A Solid number 2 WR.

This would take care of number 3.

[R. Rich]

Originally posted by Skatt8011
Supposedly according to rumors on bb.com, TD has contacted him and are looking at a 2-4 year contract.

I personally think this is a horrible idea if the years are over 1-2, I wouldnt mind him coming here for this year in an attempt to salvage the season, but to be our future #2 receiver...... NO WAY!


Can he drive block 300+lb DTs or rush the passer? If so, sign him up. Please.

[Mr. Miyagi]

FORGET IT GUYS. Detroit is going to claim him.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32397

[E-Klips]

Originally posted by Patrick76777
IMO, the three biggest issues with this team right not are in this order:

1 - A OC who can run the damn ball
2 - A DE who can rush the passer
3 - A Solid number 2 WR.

This would take care of number 3.

Oh, so we're okay in the interior of the offensive line? Mike Pucillo is okay? Trey Teague is an okay center? Come on, man. What good is a 'speed receiver' if the QB has NO time to throw the ball? We need some big, strong guards in here and a center who knows what the he** is going on. At present, we do not have these things.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by E-Klips


Oh, so we're okay in the interior of the offensive line? Mike Pucillo is okay? Trey Teague is an okay center? Come on, man. What good is a 'speed receiver' if the QB has NO time to throw the ball? We need some big, strong guards in here and a center who knows what the he** is going on. At present, we do not have these things.


I don't think it's a major problem at all!

When KG has decided to run the ball, we have run the ball well.

It's obvious that teams Blitz Drew to knock him off his game. I don't care who you have on the O-line, if the other team is bringing 6, 7 or even 8 guys, The coaches are supposed to call plays to beat the blitz! Then have not done that.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by E-Klips
Oh, so we're okay in the interior of the offensive line? Mike Pucillo is okay? Trey Teague is an okay center? Come on, man. What good is a 'speed receiver' if the QB has NO time to throw the ball? We need some big, strong guards in here and a center who knows what the he** is going on. At present, we do not have these things. So what you are saying- even though there are no very good unemployed centers or guards out there, and even though we have plenty of space under the cap, and even though this very good WR is available, we should not take this opportunity to upgrade a position that we can upgrade?

Just let someone else take him?


Is that right?

Just making sure.

[Dozerdog]

So if thre Bears waive Urlacher, or the Ravens waive Ray Lewis, and the Bills have an opportunity to pick up a guy like that, (even though our LB'ers are pretty good) we shouldn't because our OL sucks?


I'm just looking for clarification

[E-Klips]

I would prioritize. If we can upgrade at our weaknesses, why would we upgrade at positions that aren't killing us first? I know I wouldn't settle on Mike Pucillo and Trey Teague on the line just to get some WR or LB. I would first go after better players at positions where we need them, much like most NFL execs.

[Patrick76777]

Not killing us? If Reed catches a few balls against Philly we may be 5-4 right now!

Maybe that's a bit of a reach, but Reed and Shaw don't scare anybody!

[E-Klips]

Again, I'm talking about priorities. You ask any coach or GM in this league about whether it's more important to have a dependable offensive line or a good second receiver and I'll bet most would say the line is more important. Our line needs fixing. Without it, nothing else you do for the offense matters.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by E-Klips
I would prioritize. If we can upgrade at our weaknesses, why would we upgrade at positions that aren't killing us first? I know I wouldn't settle on Mike Pucillo and Trey Teague on the line just to get some WR or LB. I would first go after better players at positions where we need them, much like most NFL execs.


That sounds nice- but tell me who is out there at C/G? If you don't spend the money now, you lose it. plain and simple- unused cap money is not transferred or carried over.

You upgrade positions when the opportunity knocks. That line of thinking a dozen years ago would have let someone like James Lofton walk right by.

If the price is right, and he's got better skills- go for it!

What a WR has to do with the OL is puzzling to me

[IHateTheDullphins]

Originally posted by Patrick76777
Reed and Shaw don't scare anybody!

I agree, this makes us rest all of our hopes on a mostly double teamed #80 (who IMO is still not 100%)

and not running the ball is making us extreamly 1 dementional.

KJ whould have been a great add.

Even better since the unused cap $ was there, and will not carry over.

ohh well.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by E-Klips
Again, I'm talking about priorities. You ask any coach or GM in this league about whether it's more important to have a dependable offensive line or a good second receiver and I'll bet most would say the line is more important. Our line needs fixing. Without it, nothing else you do for the offense matters.

Tell me who we can sign TODAY to aid in this situation

[mchurchfie]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Tell me who we can sign TODAY to aid in this situation

I heard Jerry Crafts might be available.:D

[Jeff1220]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I bet they got it backwards at ESPN. Wasn't KJ a backup QB at Syracuse converted to WR with McNabb at the helm?

You'e thinking of Dee Brown. He was brought into 'cuse as a QB, but got converted into a RB due to the McNabb factor.

And, yes, KJ has speed!

[E-Klips]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
That sounds nice- but tell me who is out there at C/G? If you don't spend the money now, you lose it. plain and simple- unused cap money is not transferred or carried over.

You upgrade positions when the opportunity knocks. That line of thinking a dozen years ago would have let someone like James Lofton walk right by.

If the price is right, and he's got better skills- go for it!

What a WR has to do with the OL is puzzling to me

Oh. I didn't know about the cap issue. I guess it wouldn't hurt to get the guy in here to see what he could do then. As long as his contract wouldn't impose on what we need to do this offseason, namely get better up front on both sides of the ball.

[Dozerdog]

:bravo:


Another convert-


But- He will wind up a Lion anyway.

[E-Klips]

Don't bust your arm patting yourself on the back. I want this team to fix its problems. I realize that a lot of that will have to wait until the offseason. That's when I'll be hoping for something big to happen.

[Dozerdog]

14 million in cap space and one of the deepest drafts in years.


I think the Bills will have the opportunity to fix up the old gal. A lot less holes to fill as well.

Now don't get your anti-gravity space underwear in a bunch! :D

[THATHURMANATOR]

I agree with Dozer. Kevin Johnson is better than Shaw. We have some room to pick him up. Everyone keeps saying we need to address the o line or d line as their reason not to pick up Johnson. I haven't seen any Olinemen or dlinemen cut recently to cut so what is the argument there?

[mchurchfie]

Yo Thurm..how's it going!:up: Former No. 1 pick KJ is a better than average receiver and would be a great addition to our team.:up:

[Earthquake Enyart]

I disagree. Johnson is another Shaw / Reed. His YPC is very low. He's no deep threat.

I think he'd be a waste of money and perhaps a locker room cancer as well. We have enough big mouths here already.

[ryjam282]

The Lions just signed him, I will get the link for you....

Ryan

[socalfan]

If he is another Shaw or Reed then he doesn't have the speed. Bringing him in only prevents the Bills from developing the young receivers.

The idea that we picked up J Lofton, and it helped is odd at best....the guy is in the hall of fame....Will K Johnson ever be there? I doubt it. So there really isn't a comparison here.

Unless the guy can fly, don't bring him here....it just adds to the mess we already have instead of fixes it.

[ryjam282]

Here it is. Looks like he will be playing catch with Harrington.

Link (http://www.wtam.com/local_news.html#57)


Ryan

[BillyT92679]

Originally posted by Jeff1220
You'e thinking of Dee Brown. He was brought into 'cuse as a QB, but got converted into a RB due to the McNabb factor.

And, yes, KJ has speed!

Johnson was also a QB for the 'Cuse in 1995 though McNabb beat him out for the job. Kevin Johnson did get some PT and threw a few balls to Marvin Harrison that year.

[EM Bills Fan 80]

The Jags actually ended up with him.

[TigerJ]

Yup, it was on the ESPN sports ticker tonight. The Jags cut JJ Stokes to make room on the roster for KJ.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Maybe somebody would get all excited and start a thread called "JJ Stokes.......To Buffalo???!!!" :snicker: