status quo: Bledsoe at his best when the games mean jack [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Tatonka

11-30-2003, 07:58 PM

what is to enjoy really about the win though?.. it is about 2 weeks too late.. i did a hell of alot more flipping today during the game watching my fantasy teams and tracking bets because bledsoe eliminated us from the playoffs already.. i could give a crap what he does now.. he has a long way to go, even against **** competition, just to get his tds above his turnovers..

all i can do from todays game is be happy about the way that some players played that will be around next year when we try again.

Mad Bomber

11-30-2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Alluro
This bites...We are going to fall out of the Winslow sweepstakes here soon if we aren't careful. we are going to finish just good enough to not get an impact player in the draft and yet still not do anything on the season. damn it....damn it ! damn it ! damn it !....we are cursed

Holy S***! Complaining about a win?????????????????????? Give me a break!!! Hey HelmetGuy, if you're running out of places to stash the bodies, I've got an acre of virgin ground, and we can start with Alluro!

helmetguy

11-30-2003, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Hey HelmetGuy, if you're running out of places to stash the bodies, I've got an acre of virgin ground, and we can start with Alluro!

Bomber to the rescue! I was wondering if anything would open up for KG and GW when it's "their turn." Thanx, Bud!

mybills

11-30-2003, 08:15 PM

:hail: Tatonka!

SoCalBillsFan

11-30-2003, 08:43 PM

if we draft kellen winslow i will cry. THe guy is overrated. Plus I want football players, not "soldiers."

BillsFever

11-30-2003, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
what is to enjoy really about the win though?.. it is about 2 weeks too late.. i did a hell of alot more flipping today during the game watching my fantasy teams and tracking bets because bledsoe eliminated us from the playoffs already.. i could give a crap what he does now.. he has a long way to go, even against **** competition, just to get his tds above his turnovers..

all i can do from todays game is be happy about the way that some players played that will be around next year when we try again.

My thoughts exactly :up:

BillsFever

11-30-2003, 08:45 PM

I'd rather be 5-11 and get a Top 10 pick then 6-10 and getting the 15th pick.

I see us winning one more game. We don't have a chance against the Pats or Tenn. We'll win one between the Jets and Dolphins. I don't see us winning both of them.

Dozerdog

11-30-2003, 11:22 PM

Geesh..... Let's tank the season- then waste the pick on a TE -

Ridiculous.

Dozerdog

11-30-2003, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by BillsFever
I'd rather be 5-11 and get a Top 10 pick then 6-10 and getting the 15th pick.

I'd rather beat the Dolphins- because the are the Dolphins.

I could give a crap if it means we slip 3 draft spots. i watch football because I have a rooting interest. if I have no interest- I might as well as watch Ice capades or chess.

Losing for the sake of draft position? Maybe if we are 1-15 going up against a 2-14 team and a Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky is at stake

Dozerdog

11-30-2003, 11:34 PM

I just can't follow the twisted logic-

"I want to win- but to accomplish this- I want to lose, so later, I can win"

How about, we just work harder? You guys act like a lower draft pick is some sort of short cut or charity to a super bowl.

Look at the last 10 or so Super Bowl winners. How many did it because they stunk so bad they drafted a wonder-player high? Once you start losing for the sake of losing, you become the Arizona Cardinals. Look at the Bengals- they are barely over .500 and they are dancing in the streets. Losing became such a mind set it became natural to them.

Losing is a very difficult habit to break. Winning games now build the confidence and maturity of this team- let's not forget that there is a large portion of this roster that has never been on a winning NFL team. Let's teach them how to win now so they can win later.

BillsFever

11-30-2003, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog

Losing for the sake of draft position? Maybe if we are 1-15 going up against a 2-14 team and a Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky is at stake

That's how I felt a couple years ago when we played the Panthers at home. If we would've lost that game we could've had Julius Peppers or even Joey Harrington. I'm not sold on Harrington yet but Peppers will be a stud for years if he can beat the piss man.

We could've found a RT in the later rounds. I would've loved to see Peppers on our line. AVP just had to make a comeback and win the game.

It almost seemed like the Panthers tanked the 2nd half. They played so bad it looked liked they gave it away. Instead we've spent 3 2nd round picks on DE's. Schobel is ok but Denny has shown nothing. Kelsay hasn't sniffed the field enough to know about him yet.

Peppers and two of them 2nd round picks would've been a lot better then what we have now. Nothing you can do about it now.

Dozerdog

11-30-2003, 11:45 PM

If you were an NFL player- fighting to save your job- would you "tank" it? Just so the team can draft your potential replacement higher?

Hell no- I'm going to try and prove I'm the right guy for the position.

The Coaches are trying save their jobs as well. They won't "tank" games either.

SoCalBillsFan

11-30-2003, 11:46 PM

We have to beat the dolphins or else we'll hear about it all offseason. We beat the dolphins. end of story.

the other games? well, it's always tough to root against your team. BUt i understand the draft pick logic. The thing with this team, though, is that i don't even think we need another top 5 pick. We just need a coach.

SoCalBillsFan

11-30-2003, 11:47 PM

you should never try to lose as a player or a coach. ever. But i understand BFs point about how it could maybe be better in th long run. Still though, i hope the team is trying to get better, and i'll still root for them. i was glad to se them play well today.

BillsFever

11-30-2003, 11:53 PM

I'm sure coaches have tanked a Week 16-17 game at one point or another.

These teams already know most of the players that will be the top dogs in the draft next year. Especially the Top 5 or so. I'm sure one time or another a coach has thrown a game if he knew the difference of a win/loss in a 2-14 season is the player they covet.

Dozerdog

11-30-2003, 11:57 PM

The problem with this team this year is we have found a dozen different ways to lose.

Teach Mike Williams, Nate Clements, Josh Reed, Travis Henry, AAron Schobel, Coy Wire, and the rest of our very good young players how to win when the chips are down. It's something that is LEARNED- it just doesn't happen overnight.

The Buffalo Bills were once known for their resiliancy- pulling out impossible wins in impossible situations. Ever since the Music City Miracle, I can't think of one "improbable" win-(Vikings maybe) if anything- just the opposite has happened- we lose games all sorts of ways (kick returns in OT, give up the big play- fail to make a big play)

Goddammittt! If it costs a few draft slots so these guys learn how to pull one out then do it! The Colts & Pats don't keep pulling wins out of their asses because they fell a few extra spots in the draft. They pull wins out of their asses because they know it can be done! They have done it before!

fabolouspaul

12-01-2003, 01:19 AM

Rooting for us to lose?? Wow.

The_Philster

12-01-2003, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by fabolouspaul
Rooting for us to lose?? Wow.

That's called pure stupidity and a lack of knowledge about the NFL. High draft picks only guarantee one thing...a high salary.

shelby

12-01-2003, 04:53 AM

i agree with Dozer. Our players need to prove that they can overcome adversity and still make plays. The idea of looking to lose the rest of the games to secure a good draft pick is ludicrous.

Billsbabee

12-01-2003, 07:00 AM

Rooting for us to lose? Unbelieveable. We have a very good team on paper now and we can't find ways to win when we're down. And now you're trying to tell me a good draft pick or 2 is what will make the difference? Please!

I'd rather have a coach that can coach a good game and outcoach a tough game. We already have the players that are capable of this, now give us the coaches!

R. Rich

12-01-2003, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
The problem with this team this year is we have found a dozen different ways to lose.

Teach Mike Williams, Nate Clements, Josh Reed, Travis Henry, AAron Schobel, Coy Wire, and the rest of our very good young players how to win when the chips are down. It's something that is LEARNED- it just doesn't happen overnight.

The Buffalo Bills were once known for their resiliancy- pulling out impossible wins in impossible situations. Ever since the Music City Miracle, I can't think of one "improbable" win-(Vikings maybe) if anything- just the opposite has happened- we lose games all sorts of ways (kick returns in OT, give up the big play- fail to make a big play)

Goddammittt! If it costs a few draft slots so these guys learn how to pull one out then do it! The Colts & Pats don't keep pulling wins out of their asses because they fell a few extra spots in the draft. They pull wins out of their asses because they know it can be done! They have done it before!

I hear ya Dozer. Only one thing: you may not want to include the Colts in your take about winning. I give them props for the regular season, but they will continue to be judged by what happens in the postseason, where Manning has yet to come up with a win.

Patrick76777

12-01-2003, 08:26 AM

Some of DD's best work! This thread was almost unreadable until he came in.

The LAST thing this team needs is some punk Tight End.

"Well, we're going to pass on the big time pass rushing DE that will be in the QB's face every 3 or 4 plays, in order to grab a tight end who will catch about 3 or 4 passes a game."

I would NEVER take a TE in the first round.

I posted in another thread, that teams that finish the year strong tend to come out of the gates flying the next year. I hope to finish strong. I know it'll be a tough game, but I'd like to see us go down to Tenn and really play well and give them a hell of a game. That could really fire these guys up for next season.

zone

12-01-2003, 08:35 AM

"status quo: Bledsoe at his best when the games mean jack "

It was not bledsoe at his best, it was the team playing well as a unit! can't anyone see that it takes a whole team to win a game!....

The recievers made nice plays, caught balls (with the exception of henry and eric droping a few that hit there hands)

on most plays the line gave drew the few seconds he needs to make a play, but they also got him knocked down 8 times, sacked 2 and knocked out of the game! Drew did make some nice manovers to get out of the way of presure, but that is when he saw the dude coming, was able to spin out and still make a stellar throw... people say why can he do this all the time. Well seeing a 1 defender in your site and getting out of the way when you are in the pocket (or lack of pocket) is a lot diffrent that getting the snap and 4 denfenders on top of you, or a lineman coming like a bat out of hell from your blind side.... so all in all the Line still SUCKS A$$!!! they were just able to hold a team that got the asses kicked 4 days before for a few extra seconds, and thats all we need.

I don't want to sound negative I really enjoyed the game and I am happy with the win, I am just sick of hearing people credit or discredit a win on drews shoulders.

And for all you AVP fans who thought he should have started and saved the day when you all blamed the whooo's on drew. AVP is not even good enough to be a backup, or 3rd string in this league, he is a coach with pads. He fired a 5 yard pass so slow a defender that was 3 yards off the reciever had time to come in and break it up. He sure can hand the ball off well though can't he.

The Natrix

12-01-2003, 09:37 AM

Having "fans" root for the Bills to lose makes me sick.

Wouldn't you rather have them win out and not make the playoffs knowing they are a solid team, instead of lose out and have a better pick?

Look at Mike Williams and Nate Clements. Where in the first round were they selected? Who gets paid more? Who has been more productive?

Root for the Bills or shut the **** up.

Moulds80

12-01-2003, 10:05 AM

I don't know why you guys are so hell-bent on getting a high draft pick. Getting a player in the early round doesn't mean you automatically get a high quality player. Look at the guys drafted in later rounds, they are flourishing in the NFL while some #1 picks arent even heard of anymore. Look at all the number ones who have flopped or are backing up their position...

Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Ki-Jana Carter, Jeff George...

They were all supposed to be the cream of the crop in their draft class, and where are they? Is Akili Smith still in the NFL? Then you take a look at guys who were drafted "late" and tell me they haven't had an impact. Tom Brady (6 round), Zach Thomas (6 round) [sorry can't think of anyone else, im at my break between classes so don't have enough time to look up the information] but those guys have always made waves here in the NFL. Sadly Brady has been a Superbowl MVP and Thomas has already been to Pro Bowls.

What I am trying to get at is everyone is so hell bent about tanking the rest of the season to get a high pick...and for what? A potential bust? The Bills should play hard through the remaining four games and try to win every game. This season was dissapointing at best but you should never tank a season just for a high pick...especially for Winslow. The guy is over-rated, and with his comments after the Tennessee game...I wouldn't even want the guy on my team. He isn't a soldier, no one who plays sports is a soldier...they are an athlete. I know soldiers, I have friends over in Iraq fighting for us, and when someone says they are a solider because they cant put on a helmet and play a meaningless game (in the end, thats all football is...is a game) then whatever...

Never tank a season, because the pride should still be there. Remember a high pick only means a high contract.

Dozerdog

12-01-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by R. Rich
I hear ya Dozer. Only one thing: you may not want to include the Colts in your take about winning. I give them props for the regular season, but they will continue to be judged by what happens in the postseason, where Manning has yet to come up with a win.

I was on the playoff -choke thing- But this season, watching them come back and compete in games they have no business being in has built a ton of charachter on this team.

They remind me of the Bickering Bills from the late 1980's. After the Manning/ Vanderjact fight, this team has been nothing short of spectacular, and resiliant. I think the Vandy comments have actually lit the fire under Manning that he claimed was not there.

The Pats/Colts game was one of the most entertaining I have seen in ages. I had it on the PIP during the Bills contest and me and the wife were hollering more at the PIP than the Bills game. (She is still a Pats fan). The Pats continue too pull horse shoes out of their asses as well.

If /when these two meet in the playoffs, I envision another Saturday night NFL special- hopefully with a couple of snowflakes decending on the field. It will be a classic!

Tatonka

12-01-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by The Natrix
Having "fans" root for the Bills to lose makes me sick.

Wouldn't you rather have them win out and not make the playoffs knowing they are a solid team, instead of lose out and have a better pick?

Look at Mike Williams and Nate Clements. Where in the first round were they selected? Who gets paid more? Who has been more productive?

Root for the Bills or shut the **** up.

you know.. at this point.. i am not rooting for the bills to lose.. it is impossible to actually want the bills to not do well in a game.. but i would say at this point that there is A LOT of indifference as far as how they do, because of the extreme disappointment that they and specifically everyones golden boy, Drew, have been all year..

but you guys are all lynching alluro because he made what i am sure is a semi serious comment out of the side of his mouth.. THAT IS JUST AS ****ING RIDICULOUS.. f all of you that are going to tell me how to root for my team or what to root for.. if someone wants to see them draft a certain high draft pick then so be it..

and just a reality check here.. the bills are not making the playoffs.. they are not good enough to win in the playoffs.. we beat a very very bad team yesterday.. one of the few in the nfl that was more disappointing than the god damn bills this season..

but all of you crying because the guy made a comment about the bills getting a high draft pick.. get a life...

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Hey HelmetGuy, if you're running out of places to stash the bodies, I've got an acre of virgin ground, and we can start with Alluro!

F you

Originally posted by The_Philster
That's called pure stupidity and a lack of knowledge about the NFL.

thats cute..

Originally posted by The Natrix
Root for the Bills or shut the **** up.

this is the best one.. rofl.. nice work..

The Spaz

12-01-2003, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka

you know.. at this point.. i am not rooting for the bills to lose.. it is impossible to actually want the bills to not do well in a game.. but i would say at this point that there is A LOT of indifference as far as how they do, because of the extreme disappointment that they and specifically everyones golden boy, Drew, have been all year..

but you guys are all lynching alluro because he made what i am sure is a semi serious comment out of the side of his mouth.. THAT IS JUST AS ****ING RIDICULOUS.. f all of you that are going to tell me how to root for my team or what to root for.. if someone wants to see them draft a certain high draft pick then so be it..

and just a reality check here.. the bills are not making the playoffs.. they are not good enough to win in the playoffs.. we beat a very very bad team yesterday.. one of the few in the nfl that was more disappointing than the god damn bills this season..

but all of you crying because the guy made a comment about the bills getting a high draft pick.. get a life...

:clap:

The_Philster

12-01-2003, 04:36 PM

I just love how people seem to think that a high draft pick guarantees a great player. :rofl:

The Spaz

12-01-2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
I just love how people seem to think that a high draft pick guarantees a great player. :rofl:

With TD as at the helm it gives us a better chance then any other GM. Like I said I like us to win but the ultimate goal for a team is to make the playoffs and a possible run at the Superbowl but when that isn't accomplished fans looks for the future.

The_Philster

12-01-2003, 05:15 PM

But it still doesn't make any guarantees. The only thing guaranteed with a high draft pick is a high salary and signing bonus. Even if it's not a case where the guy is a total loser (Ryan Leaf...2nd overall in 98) the guy could get injured early on and never fully recover...yet we're still responsible for all that signing bonus and the salary as long as we have him on the roster.

Tatonka

12-01-2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
I just love how people seem to think that a high draft pick guarantees a great player. :rofl:

i dont think that it guarentees a great player.. hell NO draft pick guarentees anything.. but there are people that i hope we can get that i think will help this team.. and i know for a fact that they will not be available for use to get by the middle or end of the first round..

now if you know that your team has underperformed all year.. and has no shot at making the playoffs.. are you telling me that you see no advantage to getting a better draft pick?

i am not rooting for the bills to lose.. but i am getting pissed about it anymore.. like i did for the first half of this horrible horrible season.. there is no point..

and to be honest.. it scares me that if the bills were to run the table.. or even finish 8-8 again.. there is a slim possibility that GW could be brought back.. and that in itself would set us back years..

so the bottom line is.. i would rather see a good draft pick and a fired head coach because i know the team is not capable of doing any damage this year and especially not with GW and KG on this team...

f the dolphins though.. i hope we kill them.

The_Philster

12-01-2003, 07:16 PM

OK...here's a question for you.
Do you, living out of Buffalo, care if Buffalo keeps the Bills? Being a season-ticket holder of 8 years, the thought of losing the team sickens me. But it's a very real possibility. The lease is, for all intents and purposes, is up. December 28th, there could very well be moving vans backed up to Ralph Wilson Stadium if the Bills decide to exercise the buy-out clause. I realize the odds are against that happening, so long as Ralph is still alive..but it's still possible. In 1998, there was a big drive to sell the luxury boxes the team was putting in in the 99 season and, had we not sold as many as we did, the team could very well have picked up and moved. Guess what? Those luxury box leases signed in that year, are up for renewal. According to Denny Lynch, Bills' Director of Archives and a friend of mine, we have 60% sold so far as of two weeks ago. Maybe we've got enough by now but then again, maybe not. But I know this for sure. The team playing well or even winning games will help us sell those luxury box leases. Losses and poor play won't fill the seats and boxes.
As far as Williams, I think the number of people wanting him to remain are few and far in between if at all. Those that still exist..should have not only their sanity questioned, but their fandom.

Tatonka

12-01-2003, 07:57 PM

the bills will not move while ralph is still alive.. he has said that numerous times.. so no.. that has not been something that i have ever truely considered or worried about.

The_Philster

12-01-2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
the bills will not move while ralph is still alive.. he has said that numerous times.. so no.. that has not been something that i have ever truely considered or worried about.

I hope he lives forever but I don't see it happening.

Tatonka

12-01-2003, 08:07 PM

well, phil, what i am rooting for is a resurgance next year.. so as long as the bills are in buffalo next year, then i dont see anything to worry about.. that is the way i see it.

i hope and pray to god that ralph makes it to see us win a superbowl.. the guy deserves it.. hopefully that is next year.. but i know one thing.. his coaches and players have let him down this year and because of that.. ralph will be waiting at least one more year.

The_Philster

12-01-2003, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
well, phil, what i am rooting for is a resurgance next year.. so as long as the bills are in buffalo next year, then i dont see anything to worry about.. that is the way i see it.

i hope and pray to god that ralph makes it to see us win a superbowl.. the guy deserves it.. hopefully that is next year.. but i know one thing.. his coaches and players have let him down this year and because of that.. ralph will be waiting at least one more year.

I couldn't agree more. If we dump Williams and Gilbride and make a few personnel changes and additions, we could do it with the right coach. We seemed to have all the players in place this year but the coaching duo of Williams and Gilbride did their best to ruin that dream for us. Players haven't all stepped as well as they should have either but the common thread is Williams.