More fuel for all you that called me an idiot! [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Tatonka

12-12-2003, 05:27 PM

you guys called me and rude idiots and fairweather fans for saying that winning these last couple games had no upside.. we kept saying, if we win a couple games, we still wont make the playoffs and will have a worse draft pick, and williams may be retained as the head coach.

you guys called us crazy.. no no.. greg and kevin gilbride are gone.. yeah.. every day it is looking more and more like he may be our damn coach next year..

awesome. lets punt on 4th and 2, on their 32 yard line now.

"WILLIAMS MIGHT STAY IN BUFFALO?

We had assumed it was a foregone conclusion. Bills coach Gregg Williams doesn't have a contract beyond this season, and the team has fizzled after a season-opening explosion against the Patriots.

So when the season ends, Williams gets a canned ham and a shoe in the rump, right?

Maybe not.

We're now hearing that the Bills are considering keeping Williams and defensive coordinator Jerry Gray. Supposedly, the Bills must win 2 of their final 3 games in order to save Williams' job.

Regardless of whether Williams and Gray return, the team will be parting ways with offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride, who has a long overdue date with that insurance salesmen gig Buddy Ryan once recommended. In our view, no assistant coach in the history of the league has managed to ride for so long the fumes of past success.

Heck, it's been so long since Gilbride was successful, we can't even remember the team with whom his star rose.

So for now it's goodbye to Gilbride, but possibly hello again to Williams and Gray. Stay tuned."
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

imbondz

12-12-2003, 05:29 PM

that's ******ed

STAMPY

12-12-2003, 05:33 PM

our point was never try to throw games and just play the game... if GW returns he returns... players play to win!!! not lose

Tatonka

12-12-2003, 05:36 PM

if greg williams returns.. we will be playing to lose for years, my friend.. years.

justasportsfan

12-12-2003, 05:36 PM

Top of the page reads "DAILY RUMOR MILL " . Until then you and Rude are idiots.....

:jk:

BAM

12-12-2003, 05:36 PM

what do they know, looks like a guess if ya ask me :D

:down:

Rumor Mill...

Tatonka

12-12-2003, 05:40 PM

riiiiight.. like they are the only people that are talking about it, huh?

ok.. we will just see how happy we all are when we finish 8-8... get the 18th pick in the draft, and good old GeeDubya is back with a 3 year extension...

justasportsfan

12-12-2003, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
GeeDubya is back with a 3 year extension... aha, nobody even said anything about a 3 yr extension. My sources say, 1 game extension, he loses 1 game , he's out. :D

BAM

12-12-2003, 05:47 PM

... and my sources told me that we will sign OJ Simpson as HC to a 13 year deal :rolleyes:

:lol:

The only two people that will really know what is going to happen are Tom Donahoe and Ralph Wilson. Untill then it's all speculation :D

The_Philster

12-12-2003, 06:40 PM

From a similar source, I found out this shocking fact about Noah's Ark :jawdrop:
NOAH'S Ark has been found in North Korea -- but demented dictator Kim Jong Il won't let Americans near it.

Scientists and theologians are banned from approaching the greatest archaeological find of modern times, now guarded by a full armored division.

Kim has bizarre plans for the ancient artifact, which surfaced last month in a village on the northeastern corner of the Korean peninsula some 50 miles south of the Yalu River....more (http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/news/index.cfm?instanceid=60057)

BAM

12-12-2003, 06:55 PM

That's amazing Phil! I believe it!!!

In other news...

Baby Reported Boring

TAMARAC, FL—Michelle, the three-week-old daughter of area residents Sue and Allen McKay, is "unbelievably boring," sources close to the couple said Monday. "Sue's always raving about how amazing Michelle is," friend Elena Jacobs said. "But then you meet her, and she barely moves. Who knows? Maybe Michelle is an incredibly charming and engaging little mastermind during the 20 minutes each day that she's awake and not crying." Jacobs added that Michelle must have been born with her mother's eyes and her father's total lack of personality.

Tatonka

12-12-2003, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
From a similar source, I found out this shocking fact about Noah's Ark :jawdrop:
NOAH'S Ark has been found in North Korea -- but demented dictator Kim Jong Il won't let Americans near it.

Scientists and theologians are banned from approaching the greatest archaeological find of modern times, now guarded by a full armored division.

Kim has bizarre plans for the ancient artifact, which surfaced last month in a village on the northeastern corner of the Korean peninsula some 50 miles south of the Yalu River....more (http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/news/index.cfm?instanceid=60057)

:lol: :rofl:

Michael82

12-12-2003, 07:07 PM

Guys, you don't understand. Tatonka is right. Even the radio stations are talking about Gregg like he is going to stay here. I'm telling you, this is the worst thing that can happen. Do we really want to see another year of manboobs and his crappy decisions? 4th and 2 at the 32, punt? :shakeno: fake punt when the Bills are leading 14-0 at the beginning of the 2nd quarter? :shakeno: halfback pass? :rolleyes:

The horrible clock management? The terrible coaches challenges? No more! I'm so sick of this crap and it seems the only way for it to end is to lose 2 games. I will not root for the Dolphins to beat us, or the Patriots. But I wouldn't shed a tear if the Titans beat us this week and the Patriots barely beat us in week 17. That would give us a 7-9 record (UNDER five hundred) and should kick Gregg Williams out of Buffalo, like we all want to see.

Topdog

12-12-2003, 07:11 PM

I don't care for Denny Green but I think he could wonders for the Bills!! IMHO

socalfan

12-12-2003, 07:16 PM

It's not the worst thing that can happen Mike.

Michael82

12-12-2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
It's not the worst thing that can happen Mike.

Well, yeah....Gregg could stay. Bills fans PROTEST and don't sell out the stadium next year. Bills threaten to leave. How about that? I already know of at least 20 people that have been season ticket holders for a while who are going to not renew if he stays. What does Gregg staying tell the fans? You don't matter! Nothing changes. Gilbride falls on the sword, and Gregg stays for another 2-3 years. :eek: :mad:

socalfan

12-12-2003, 07:34 PM

The Bills will continue to sell about 40,000 season tickets even if Greg stays. If you give up your seats someone else will be more than willing to take them.

All it will take is a new season with an improvement in the team and a great draft.

casdhf

12-12-2003, 07:39 PM

I'm fine for Williams staying, as long as gilbride goes and Les Steckle is promoted to OC

socalfan

12-12-2003, 07:45 PM

Maybe there is someone better than Les Steckle that can be brought in.

Michael82

12-12-2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
The Bills will continue to sell about 40,000 season tickets even if Greg stays. If you give up your seats someone else will be more than willing to take them.

All it will take is a new season with an improvement in the team and a great draft.

Uhhh, this is one of the first times we hit OVER 40,000 in a while. I'm guessing it will be about 37,000 or 38,000 next year. :sadwalk:

The_Philster

12-12-2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Mike32282
Uhhh, this is one of the first times we hit OVER 40,000 in a while. I'm guessing it will be about 37,000 or 38,000 next year. :sadwalk:

That would be quite a drop...since according to sources of a source, we sold 53,000 this season.

madness

12-12-2003, 08:44 PM

madness

12-12-2003, 08:48 PM

How about we just fire the whole front office and let the fans runs everything. I think that would be such a great idea! Because obviously you all know more than the people who have devoted their life to football.

Can we post a list of everyone who wants GW fired? I want to make sure none of you are riding his coat tails in the future.

What makes me really sick are the people who are saying fire GW and are not even saying anything about the REAL cause of this season- KG.

socalfan

12-12-2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
That would be quite a drop...since according to sources of a source, we sold 53,000 this season.

53K.....that is outstanding! I doubt it has ever been that high before.

Michael82

12-12-2003, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
That would be quite a drop...since according to sources of a source, we sold 53,000 this season.

Oh I had my numbers down about 10,000. Okay....we had 53,000 this year. IF GW stays...I quarantee we won't sell over 50,000.

socalfan

12-12-2003, 09:12 PM

Mike - 50K of 74K seats are taken by season ticket holders in that small market is outstanding. Don't give up your tickets because of GW! Read the Tennessee papers and you'll see that Fisher did not do better than GW in his first 3 years. And Gruden, who everyone things is god, has not produced only 1 year after winning the super bowl. So don't put your trust in a HC to get it done. It is the players that will accomplish it.

Michael82

12-12-2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
Mike - 50K of 74K seats are taken by season ticket holders in that small market is outstanding. Don't give up your tickets because of GW! Read the Tennessee papers and you'll see that Fisher did not do better than GW in his first 3 years. And Gruden, who everyone things is god, has not produced only 1 year after winning the super bowl. So don't put your trust in a HC to get it done. It is the players that will accomplish it.

Yeah. but the coach makes the game day decisions. NOT the players. The coaches are the ones that are supposed to work on penalties, and make sure the players don't do stupid errors. The coaches are the ones who decide whether to punt the ball on 4th down and 2 at the 32. The coaches are the ones who decide when to run the ball, pass the ball, and do all the damn trick plays. The coaches are the ones who are make the coaches challenge and decide to review a play. The coaches are in charge of clock management and are supposed to be careful with their timeouts and know to run the clock down in the 2nd half, if u have a lead. The coach also makes up his own staff. Gregg has had 2 offensive coordinators that sucked, and a bunch of other changes in his staff. He even needed someone like Dick LeBeau to come in and spark some life in this defense. What has Gregg done that makes you think he could be the next Bill Belichek? Jon Gruden? Or even Jeff Fisher? :scratch:

The_Philster

12-12-2003, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
53K.....that is outstanding! I doubt it has ever been that high before.

actually, we had over 57K during one of the runs to the Super Bowl...1992, I believe :scratch:
Originally posted by madness23
What makes me really sick are the people who are saying fire GW and are not even saying anything about the REAL cause of this season- KG.

:rolleyes: You've been selective reading then because we're blasting both those two bozos all season.

socalfan

12-12-2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Mike32282
Yeah. but the coach makes the game day decisions. NOT the players. The coaches are the ones that are supposed to work on penalties, and make sure the players don't do stupid errors. The coaches are the ones who decide whether to punt the ball on 4th down and 2 at the 32. The coaches are the ones who decide when to run the ball, pass the ball, and do all the damn trick plays. The coaches are the ones who are make the coaches challenge and decide to review a play. The coaches are in charge of clock management and are supposed to be careful with their timeouts and know to run the clock down in the 2nd half, if u have a lead. The coach also makes up his own staff. Gregg has had 2 offensive coordinators that sucked, and a bunch of other changes in his staff. He even needed someone like Dick LeBeau to come in and spark some life in this defense. What has Gregg done that makes you think he could be the next Bill Belichek? Jon Gruden? Or even Jeff Fisher? :scratch:

He had as many wins as they did during their first 3 years of coaching.

socalfan

12-12-2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
actually, we had over 57K during one of the runs to the Super Bowl...1992, I believe :scratch:
.....

So they really did well this season. I guess all the hype at the beginning of the year that the team was super bowl bound must have done it.

The_Philster

12-12-2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
So they really did well this season. I guess all the hype at the beginning of the year that the team was super bowl bound must have done it.

yeah...too bad the team underachieved so badly. I remember talking to someone (maybe Voltron) about the Super Bowl...and a place we could stay

Michael82

12-12-2003, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
He had as many wins as they did during their first 3 years of coaching.

What the hell does wins have to do with anything? He had more talent than Fisher probably had! We expected playoffs or bust. Hell, Bledsoe, Spikes, and even TD kept talking about the playoffs this year. IF we don't make the playoffs, Gregg should be gone. He didn't do his job.

socalfan

12-12-2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Mike32282
What the hell does wins have to do with anything? .....

Mike - wins are the only thing that matters.

Just because so many people bought into the super bowl bound hype at the beginning of the season and are sorely disappointed, it doesn't mean fire the coach. 'Cause if it did, then people should logically be calling for Gruden to be fired too.

lordofgun

12-12-2003, 10:20 PM

I can't believe some of you are OK with GW sticking around. You must have short freaking memories.

Michael82

12-12-2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by lordofgun
I can't believe some of you are OK with GW sticking around. You must have short freaking memories.

EXACTLY! :shakeno:

Historian

12-13-2003, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by lordofgun
I can't believe some of you are OK with GW sticking around. You must have short freaking memories.

No kidding!

This has been a spirited discussion, but its all acedemic. The Bills are going to be slaughtered tomorrow, and in New England.

And I've seen Miami come in here in the cold, and kick our asses too. :hamrhed:

justasportsfan

12-13-2003, 07:05 AM

I'm all for GW going but I want to watch some football Damnit. Look if we get a high draft pick chances are there won't be a player with a blown out knee in the 1st 10 draft picks. There will be one in the middle to late 1st rd. Perfect for us.

zone

12-13-2003, 08:44 AM

Can't anyone see that we are running the ball and kicking teams a$$'s? I don't give too craps about who is coaching right now if we are winning. Worry about that later!

Someone pulled the plug on KG and it is working. You crack smokers want us to throw the last 2 games with a chance to go to the playoffs?

This team is playing well enough to win in the playoffs why throw it away.

I never wanted KG here in the first place, and greg should be fired on that moronic decision alone, but we have a chance to see our team in the playoffs. I don't want to throw that away at any price. The way our d is playing we could have a chance to make a run. If we could just get in, and we are not going to do that by losing.

Besides that don't believe everyhting you read, you honestly think ralf or td told some media source "if GW wins 2 of his last 3 games we are going to extend him to a 3 year deal" ????? get real.... speculation is a b*tch.....

saviorbledsoe

12-13-2003, 10:28 AM

You guys are right....first sign of any bad coaching (even if week 1) we should all hope for to lose as many games as possible.

Nice *****ing logic!!!!!!!!

We aent even out of the playoffs...do you realize this?????

I cant believe...a fan of a team that has seen the likes of a wildcard game that is won after being down 32 points in the 3rd quarter would be soooooo quick to QUIT o their team!

Disgraceful

Halbert

12-13-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by lordofgun
I can't believe some of you are OK with GW sticking around. You must have short freaking memories.
Have we met?

Halbert

12-13-2003, 11:13 AM

Yeah, GW has been far from perfect. He's got a long ways to go to be considered a really good head coach. If he's gone after this season I'm not going to shed any tears.

But he has improved every season and if TD and RW decide to keep him around another year I won't have a problem with that. Why? Well first off, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Gilbride is gonesville and he rightfully deserves to go. I agree that injuries to EM and TH were big losses that crippled the offense, but I could do better than zero TD's in 5 of 6 road games with Betty White at RB and Bea Arthur at WR.

Secondly, GW was brought in to build a championship caliber defense and he has delivered. Spread the credit around as much as you like but this defense has GW written all over it. JG is his disciple and has implemented GW’s system. LeBeau gets partial credit for adding his zone blitz to the scheme, but it’s still GW’s baby.

Finally, I'm worried about the idea of someone new with a whole new staff coming in. Unless we could get someone like Parcells or Gruden to come in here, the reality is that the likelihood of being able to compete for the SB next year with a new coach is low - much lower than if GW is allowed to finish the job that he and TD started. Certainly the Bills underachieved this year (actually, the offense underachieved because D and ST were excellent), but the feeling all along was that it would take one more season for the reconstruction project to really be finished.

It was only TD’s brilliant maneuvering that got all of us thinking SB right now. Sure, there have been some moves that haven’t worked out (Gilbride, Denny), but he’s hit far more homeruns than strikeouts. With another off-season of moves to upgrade the offensive line and the RDE spot this could be a team on the verge of greatness.

I’d love to see some big name guy (Coughlin, Green, Fassel) come in here but none of them would be guaranteed to pull everything together by the beginning of next season to be as solid a SB contender as if we stick with the programs in place. It’s a lot easier to replace one guy and fix the offense than it is to start fresh with the other two units that are playing at a very high level.

Either way, I’m virtually assured to be getting season tickets next year. Assuming, of course, that they get rid of that oxygen wasting fat succubus vermin bastard who shall remain nameless but whose initials are the first two letters of the former Soviet Union’s evil intelligence agency (and what does THAT tell you?).

The_Philster

12-13-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by zone
Can't anyone see that we are running the ball and kicking teams a$$'s? I don't give too craps about who is coaching right now if we are winning. Worry about that later!

Why did it take him all season long to figure out how to do that?

IHateTheDullphins

12-13-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
Why did it take him all season long to figure out how to do that?

your guess is as good as mine???????

socalfan

12-13-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
Why did it take him all season long to figure out how to do that?

Because GW is inexperienced and KG is an arogant idiot. GW has made so many mistakes in putting together the team that it's really easy to imagine he couldn't do it again next year.

I'm not complaining about game day decisions like what plays to challenge, or do you punt when it's 4th and 2 from the 32 yard line. But I do think he is responsible for all of the penalties that clearly do impact the outcome of a game. He is responsible for that annoying inability to make game day adjustments with his staff. He is responsible for his hiring decisions and the stream of goofy assistant coaches he has brought in. Those three reasons are more than enough for me to figure he costs us more games than a lot of other coaches would and someone else can do better. The only positive thing I see is that the Bills are still playing for him unlike some other coaches.....

Will GW improve in the future....maybe with the right staff, but I think he needs a timeout, go sit in the corner for a while then work for some good head coaches and pay attention and learn from them.

I don't see any hope for KG....the arrogance alone will kill him.

lordofgun

12-13-2003, 02:51 PM

So the players play hard for GW. MAybe he's a good motivator. Problem is he doesn't motivate until it's all but too late. Even if he is a good motivator, hes one of the worst game-day decision-makers I've ever seen.

Why do we have to settle for that?

Is it so wrong to want a coach who can motivate AND make intelligent decisions during a game? I THINK NOT!

socalfan

12-13-2003, 02:59 PM

Don't get me wrong LOG....since about midpoint of last year I've wanted GW gone. And that opinion hasn't changed. But fire him for the 3 reasons I posted above.

I just don't think you fire coaches because they can't figure out when to punt or challenge a call. These items point to more egregious issues that are reasons to fire someone.

Nor do I think you fire them because everyone believes the team should have made the playoffs. Whether or not a team makes it is not completely up to the head coach and an example of that is Gruden with TB this year.

socalfan

12-13-2003, 03:01 PM

Nor do I think fans should give up their season tickets, especially if they have had them for a while, because they get better seating and it is only a matter of time before the Bills come back again...they got the will to do so in the front office.

And I would never suggest someone give up those tickets to protest against a HC....that is like spitting into the wind...you only screw yourself.

lordofgun

12-13-2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by socalfan
I just don't think you fire coaches because they can't figure out when to punt or challenge a call. These items point to more egregious issues that are reasons to fire someone.

I'll have to disagree with you on that point. IMO, that's one of the most important thing a head coach does! If they can't get gameday decisions right, how are they ever going to bring us to the promised land? What idf he called a punt on 4th and 2 from the 30 during the super bowl? What if he waswted our challenged when the champ[ionship was on the line? A good coach MUST make good calls during the game.

socalfan

12-13-2003, 03:36 PM

The more egregious issues that those items point to are:

- inability to strategize
- inability to analyze and make sound conclusions from data
- inability to understand the ebb and flow of a game
- inability to manage a game
- lack of understanding of the importance of field position (as a side note, during the Dalas game, Carter had a series that was 3 and out with two passing plays. Parcell's after the first passing play looked over at the OC. On the second passing play he walked over to the OC and explained time management and field position. Dallas was playing from midfield positions and controlling the clock after that series).

All of these are reasons to fire someone. It is the difference between treating the disease and treating the symptoms.

justasportsfan

12-13-2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by socalfan

I just don't think you fire coaches because they can't figure out when to punt or challenge a call. These items point to more egregious issues that are reasons to fire someone.

It does matter socal.A perfect example. Bellichick calling for a safety for field position that won them the game. That was one call that the coach made that ended up in a W for the Pats.

Historian

12-13-2003, 04:17 PM

I think you both are right...its a combination of both.

lordofgun

12-13-2003, 05:04 PM

For instance, that call GW challeneged last week...there was literally nothing to challenge on that play and he just wasted one! Completely wasted it. If that was a closer game and we ended up losing because we were minus a timeout or out of challenges, it would have been a devastating mistake.

socalfan

12-13-2003, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by justasportsfan
It does matter socal.A perfect example. Bellichick calling for a safety for field position that won them the game. That was one call that the coach made that ended up in a W for the Pats.

You are giving an example of what I am saying. This example points out the ability to Strategize as well as the ability to understand the importance of field position. By taking a safety, the coach showed he understood that putting the other team back at the 20 yd line gave him an advantage in field position. By taking the safety he showed that he understood strategy, that is he new the time wasted by running the 4th down play was more important that the 2 points. He then showed he could analyze the data in that he saw giving up 2 points in a safety, wasting time by taking a safety and putting the other club back on their side of the field with little time to play improved their chances of winning the game.

socalfan

12-13-2003, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by lordofgun
For instance, that call GW challeneged last week...there was literally nothing to challenge on that play and he just wasted one! Completely wasted it. If that was a closer game and we ended up losing because we were minus a timeout or out of challenges, it would have been a devastating mistake.

LOG, if I remember the play right the punted ball was touched by a Bill at the 1/2 yd line, then it bounced off of a Jet, then it was touched by another Bill at the 9 yd line. The Bill's players reacted as if they had recovered a fumble.

The ref put the ball down at the 9 yd line and signaled Jets' ball. GW asked for clarification of the ruling given that a Jet touched the ball. What ever the explanation was, GW then challenged. He lost and I've heard two different explanations of why...both of which were simply a statement of the rules of football.

What I do know however is that either the ref was so stupid as to not be able to state the rule he was basing his decision on or since the HC communicates with his people upstairs and they give him advice about what to do. Maybe he needs better people giving him advice.

But it isn't a something to fire a coach over.