Should Donahoe's job be on the line next year?

[HenryRules]

If we're not a playoff team next year, I think Donahoe has to go.

Next year is his 4th year with the team, and if he hasn't produced a playoff team, I don't see any need for him to stick around.

The last 2 years we were last in our division and this year we'll be 3rd at best.

I think his performance in Buffalo has been incredibly overrated.

[imbondz]

I like TD. He's bringing in the talent, the talent isn't producing.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by imbondz
I like TD. He's bringing in the talent, the talent isn't producing.

The buck stops at the top IMO. If we don't have a playoff team next year, then TD has proven he can't assemble a winning team in this situation.

[AG75]

No no no and no!!!

I have been meaning to address this. Tom has done everything possible to "try" and get this team to be a contender. He has made moves that pretty much all Bills fans thought were shrewd and "genius"..and some of the moves he has made have been busts, and some great(Spikes, Adams, Milloy). Hell, if I were GM I would have brought these people in too. I am not going to blame him of all people for this team underachieving. I will start t have second thoughts about Tom if he refuses to fix or address some of our problems like Gilbride, Gregg, Drew etc etc

Right now though I think he had just as high hopes as we all did when he started bringing all the talent in. Unfortunately, this has got to be the biggest group of underachievers I have ever seen in my 15+ years of watching the Bills. No heart whatsoever!!! I don't blame TD for that though, but hopefully he will address this.

[Dozerdog]

:up: Aimee

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by AG75
No no no and no!!!

I have been meaning to address this. Tom has done everything possible to "try" and get this team to be a contender. He has made moves that pretty much all Bills fans thought were shrewd and "genius"..and some of the moves he has made have been busts, and some great(Spikes, Adams, Milloy). Hell, if I were GM I would have brought these people in too. I am not going to blame him of all people for this team underachieving. I will start t have second thoughts about Tom if he refuses to fix or address some of our problems like Gilbride, Gregg, Drew etc etc

Right now though I think he had just as high hopes as we all did when he started bringing all the talent in. Unfortunately, this has got to be the biggest group of underachievers I have ever seen in my 15+ years of watching the Bills. No heart whatsoever!!! I don't blame TD for that though, but hopefully he will address this.

So let me summarize your post:

- TD brought in incompetent coaches
- TD brought in players with no heart
- TD assembled the biggest group of underachievers you have ever seen
- TD is a genius

something doesn't add up.

[Dozerdog]

If people are willing to bring back Gregg after he hires a third OC, why does TD only get 1 chance to hire a coach?

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
If people are willing to bring back Gregg after he hires a third OC, why does TD only get 1 chance to hie a coach?

I don't think Gregg should have a chance to hire another OC.

I also think that TD has already had 2 chances to hire a HC - he could have let GW go before the season but "chose" not too. So his first two coaching choices were GW.

Also, I'm willing to give TD one more season - so that's 3 chances for TD to hire a HC.

If we don't make the playoffs with TD's second set of coaches (and 3rd opportunity to change coaches), then what do we wait for?

[AG75]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
:up: Aimee

Thanks :D

Before I even came across this topic I was going to start a thread on TD and the unecessary bashing of him that im seeing from some Bills fans. My god the man is trying..big time. Look at what he did last offseason??? Maybe he would be "perfect" if he suited up and played as well. TD for QB!!!!!

Seriously, he went out and brought in players that fans wanted and prayed for. It's not his fault they have not produced.

Hopefully he will get rid of Gregg and Gilbride.

[AG75]

Originally posted by HenryRules


So let me summarize your post:

- TD brought in incompetent coaches
- TD brought in players with no heart
- TD assembled the biggest group of underachievers you have ever seen
- TD is a genius

something doesn't add up.

Now wait a minute!! Were you not all for TD bringing in Sam Adams? Takeo? Bledsoe? Hell if I remember people were willing to start a shrine for TD for bringing these talented players in. Drew Bledsoe had a rally. Not since Jim Kelly did I see so much fuss for a QB. We the fans were not able to look into a crystal ball and see that the team would play with no heart or emotion, yet Tom is supposed to have some sort of esp and know this would happen? Puhlease. Besides, Spikes is pro bowl bound, Milloy has been a great addition and Adams as well.

On the whole though, this team is not gelling. I do not blame TD for this.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I don't think Gregg should have a chance to hire another OC.

I also think that TD has already had 2 chances to hire a HC - he could have let GW go before the season but "chose" not too. So his first two coaching choices were GW.

Also, I'm willing to give TD one more season - so that's 3 chances for TD to hire a HC.

If we don't make the playoffs with TD's second set of coaches (and 3rd opportunity to change coaches), then what do we wait for?


While I was in favor of grabbing Coulghlin when he came available last season, firing GW last season would have been a bit out of character for most NFL teams. You can't let your anger cloud your judgement. 3-13 to 8-8,....... a five game improvement with the worst D in the league- give me a break on that one.

But I think you just want to trash the whole thing. That's your choice- but of you did that on every set back we will never get this baby improved.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by AG75
Seriously, he went out and brought in players that fans wanted and prayed for. It's not his fault they have not produced.


His job is not to bring in players the fans want. Dungy brought in Freeney in Indy and the fans hated him for it initially.

TD's job is to put a winning team on the field. He hasn't done it in the 3 years his been here (first year was not his fault though).

By the way ... teams that were in a similar situation to us two years ago (our 3-13 season).

Carolina
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
San Diego

(only teams with less than 6 wins in 2001).


Carolina won their division this year.
Dallas is going to the playoffs this year.
Minnesota has a good chance to win their division this year.
Detroit is considered a laughing stock.
San Diego is considered a laughing stock.

I believe you can be judged by the company you keep - and TD's company isn't good.

[LtBillsFan66]

TD's done a fine job. He underestimated how much he sacrificed on O to get the D. Hindsight is 20-20. I think it's VERY clear what he has to do in the offseason.

[Turf]

Baloney.

TD hired and could have fired GW and Gilbride.

He stood around and watched this team flounder as we have and did nothing.
As much as admire TD for some of his free agent and salary cap moves, some of his drafting decisions (McGahee) and coaching moves undermine his personnel moves.
TD has had three years at the helm, and we have't broken .500 once, and in fact are going backwards.
The only thing that will convince me that TD is on the ball, will be to to get rid of Gilbride, GW, and whoever else, and bring in a power coach, and to release Drew, because Drew is done as QB.
Anying short of that will convince me that TD is not the real deal.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Dozerdog



While I was in favor of grabbing Coulghlin, You can't let your anger cloud your judgement. 3-13 to 8-8,....... a five game improvement with the worst D in the league- give me a break on that one.

But I think you just want to trash the whole thing. That's your choice- but of you did that on every set back we will never get this baby improved.

I don't want to fire him now.

But I think if we go 3-13, 8-8, 7-9/6-10, 8-8 then I think TD should be fired. We'd turn into the Cardinals of the 2000s if we kept that up.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by billsfanone
TD's done a fine job. He underestimated how much he sacrificed on O to get the D. Hindsight is 20-20. I think it's VERY clear what he has to do in the offseason.

Again, TD's job is not to make popular decisions. There's 80000 people in the Ralph each week that could do that.

TD's job is to make shrewd decisions and I don't think he's done that. I'll stand by the team's record, you can stand by "shouddas".

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I don't think Gregg should have a chance to hire another OC.

I also think that TD has already had 2 chances to hire a HC - he could have let GW go before the season but "chose" not too. So his first two coaching choices were GW.

If we don't make the playoffs with TD's second set of coaches (and 3rd opportunity to change coaches), then what do we wait for?


Originally posted by HenryRules
By the way ... teams that were in a similar situation to us two years ago (our 3-13 season).

Carolina
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
San Diego

(only teams with less than 6 wins in 2001).


Carolina won their division this year.
Dallas is going to the playoffs this year.
Minnesota has a good chance to win their division this year.
Detroit is considered a laughing stock.
San Diego is considered a laughing stock.

I believe you can be judged by the company you keep - and TD's company isn't good.


So- following your logic to dump Williams after improving to an 8-8 season, Minnesota and Carolina ashould have rid themselves of their coaches last season? Neither of them improved as much as the Bills did from 2001 to 2002

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I don't want to fire him now.

But I think if we go 3-13, 8-8, 7-9/6-10, 8-8 then I think TD should be fired. We'd turn into the Cardinals of the 2000s if we kept that up.


Let's see what he does to the coaching staff in 2 weeks.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by AG75


Now wait a minute!! Were you not all for TD bringing in Sam Adams? Takeo? Bledsoe? Hell if I remember people were willing to start a shrine for TD for bringing these talented players in. Drew Bledsoe had a rally. Not since Jim Kelly did I see so much fuss for a QB. We the fans were not able to look into a crystal ball and see that the team would play with no heart or emotion, yet Tom is supposed to have some sort of esp and know this would happen? Puhlease. Besides, Spikes is pro bowl bound, Milloy has been a great addition and Adams as well.

On the whole though, this team is not gelling. I do not blame TD for this.

I repeated exactly what you said, yet you're saying I'm wrong?

For the third time now ... TD's job is not to make the popular decisions - it's to make the right decisions.

The media are paid to write articles. I am paid to be a systems analyst. TD is paid to build winning football teams. My agreeing with TD and the media agreeing with TD at the time are not strong endorsements for his performance.

The only fair way to judge TD's time at the helm is by our record - and if we go 0-4 in making the playoffs, that's not a good record.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by HenryRules
Again, TD's job is not to make popular decisions. There's 80000 people in the Ralph each week that could do that.

TD's job is to make shrewd decisions and I don't think he's done that. I'll stand by the team's record, you can stand by "shouddas".

It's not black and white.

I'm pissed off as any other Bills fan out there. I don't believe the failure is from the lack of talent brought in.

He'll right the ship. Trust me. "Stay tuned."

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Dozerdog





So- following your logic to dump Williams after improving to an 8-8 season, Minnesota and Carolina ashould have rid themselves of their coaches last season? Neither of them improved as much as the Bills did from 2001 to 2002


I didn't say that TD should have fired GW. I also didn't say that TD should not have fired GW.

However, TD had the opportunity to fire GW and "chose" not too.

To say that he did not have an opportunity to fire GW is foolish and a mistating the facts.

Again, I'm judging TD purely on his record - the only fair way to judge someone. And our record right now is 0-3. If we go to 0-4 then I think it's time to look somewhere else.

How many years are you willing to miss the playoffs?

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by billsfanone


It's not black and white.

I'm pissed off as any other Bills fan out there. I don't believe the failure is from the lack of talent brought in.

He'll right the ship. Trust me. "Stay tuned."

What do you mean it's not black and white?

We haven't had injury problems this year (no more so than most teams).

We haven't been robbed by the refs any more than most teams.

We didn't make the playoffs for the third year in a row.

Where's the gray area?

[LtBillsFan66]

The gray area is all the shoulda coulda wouldas. I think it's clear what the Bills need to do this offseason.

[Turf]

I might as well be the Aflac Duck, why do I bother, I'm out.

[LtBillsFan66]

We also had the toughest schedule in the league. And both Henry and Moulds injuries were very costly.

no no no, I'm not making excuses. They are part of the game, yes. I'm just saying that TD did his job and bought the talent in to make a difference. He just shorted the offense too much. Like I said, hindsight is 20-20.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by billsfanone
We also had the toughest schedule in the league. And both Henry and Moulds injuries were very costly.

I fail to understand how Henry's injuries were at all costly. Before the injuries, he was doing nothing. After them, he's arguably the best RB in football.


no no no, I'm not making excuses. They are part of the game, yes. I'm just saying that TD did his job and bought the talent in to make a difference. He just shorted the offense too much. Like I said, hindsight is 20-20.


So how many years of us not making the playoffs are you willing to wait?

I set my number at 4. I think that's reasonable.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I fail to understand how Henry's injuries were at all costly. Before the injuries, he was doing nothing. After them, he's arguably the best RB in football.




So how many years of us not making the playoffs are you willing to wait?

I set my number at 4. I think that's reasonable.

They cost us the games he was out and not 100%.

There are always many factors to look at. I don't blame TD 100% for the team's failures.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Dozerdog



Let's see what he does to the coaching staff in 2 weeks.

I don't care what he does in the next 2 weeks ... I care how the team does next year.

If he keeps GW and we make the playoffs - good for TD, he should stay. If we replace our coaches with Bill Parcells (by way of a miracle) and we miss the playoffs, I say he goes.

I don't care about the popularity of his moves, I care about the results they produce.

[Historian]

I would like to see him give up a little 'power' and hire a strong HC, to handle the football operations. This isn't Pittsburgh, he isn't going to get squeezed out here, Ralph would not allow it.