What is so bad about fassel?

[SoCalBillsFan]

I'm not exactly going crazy about having him as head coach, but I don't understand what is wrong with the guy either. The giants teams he had, IMO, never had THAT much talent, and they were in the playoffs all the time. Tiki barber, amani toomer, and kerry collins? Come on, we wouldn't be happy if that was our offense, would we? This year's team was killed by injuries, the whole offensive line was decimated and they lost the starting QB. It's the first bad season he's had I think.

More than that, he is the complete opposite of GW: an offensive mind, and someone who can deal with the media. He won't give the BS answers GW did after losses. He's a motivator, he seems like a smart guy, he handled himself with class, he has head coaching experience and he's been to he super bowl.

Maybe he's not bill parcells, but why are some of you so down on him? He seems like a good candidate to me!

[The_Philster]

He took an average team to the Super Bowl. Imagine what he could do with this roster. :drool: If he makes it as the head coach, I don't see a reason to complain. I have a friend who's a big Giants fan and she was upset they fired him.

[baalworship]

He's not known for great game day decisions or adjustments. Basically, Giants fans were calling for his head for years for the same reasons why people wanted GW out of here.

[Devin]

yeah my problem is while I dont think hes a bad coach he isnt a step up, mediocre at best I guess. More of a coordinator.

[baalworship]

Here's the stats:Jim Fassel
Head Coach

+--------------+----------+
| Reg. Season | Playoffs |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| Year TM | W L T | W L |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| 1997 nyg | 10 5 1 | 0 1 |
| 1998 nyg | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |
| 1999 nyg | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 2000 nyg | 12 4 0 | 2 1 |
| 2001 nyg | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |
| 2002 nyg | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |
| 2003 nyg | 4 12 0 | 0 0 |
+----------+--------------+----------+
| TOTALS | 58 53 1 | 2 3 |

Only 1 in 7 years did his team get more than 10 wins. And many of those years the NFC East was awful. 2 Playoff wins in 7 years. Again, what's so great about this?! John fox got an 11 win season and a playoff win in his 2nd year.


How about his offensive prowess, you ask? Here you go:

This is how his team fared ranking wise in points and yards on the offensive side of the ball:

Year Points Yards

1997 21 28
1998 23 29
1999 20 16
2000 15 12
2001 21 9
2002 22 7
2003 30 19

Those numbers are out of 30-32 teams. That's what you want in Buffalo?!


Here are Gilbride led offenses, the guy he's going to be "upgrading"


Gilbride

2002 11 8
2003 31 28



Fassel NEVER had an offensive year as good as Gilbride's 2002. And for those who say he didn't have weapons, right. NY has more receivers than we do and had TONS of options last year with Toomer, Hilliard, Carter, Shockey, and Barber. Yet with all those weapons the Giants finished 22 in scoring in 2002.

[SABURZFAN]

i'd take fassel over the last nitwit we had any day.

[The Natrix]

Definitely not at the top of my list, but I wouldn't really be to upset if he was hired. I'll judge him once I see him in action with this team.

If he doesn't get rid of Bledsoe, and Drew doesn't play well consistently, I will be calling for his head though.

[Alluro]

Originally posted by baalworship


. And for those who say he didn't have weapons, right. NY has more receivers than we do and had TONS of options last year with Toomer, Hilliard, Carter, Shockey, and Barber. Yet with all those weapons the Giants finished 22 in scoring in 2002.

He had kerry collins at qb, who is basically dredsoe lite (same age, height, weight, and style of play). Secondly, tiki barber is not a front line running back. He's solid between the 20s but then fades more and more as the team nears the endzone; he is not the back that can carry a team to the superbowl....Toomer? he's a good NFL starting WR, but he's not an all-pro player like a Randy Moss or Eric Moulds. Shockey is nice, but there is onlyu so much he can do......Hilliard? Carter? WOW, now that is talent :)

[baalworship]

Toomer is not Randy Moss. Gotcha. But finishing 22 out of 32 teams with that kind of talent is not exciting. Hilliard is way better than Reed, at this point. Shockey is better than Riemersma was. Plus, that's with the best offensive line coach in the NFL. 22 in points SUCKS!

Again:

21
23
20
15
21
22
30 in points. Horrible Horrible Horrible


Everyone wants to kill Gilbride for a bad year yet hire Fassel with this track record?!

[Alluro]

With an average QB, an average RB, an average WR core, good TE, and makeshift line, what do you want?.....Hilliard being better than reed is not saying a whole lot at this point

[baalworship]

I'm talking about last year. Their WR corps in 2002 was not average.


Here's your average WR corps:Wide Receivers
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Name | G | RSH YARD AVG TD | REC YARD AVG TD |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------+
| Tim Carter | 4 | 3 28 9.3 0 | 2 37 18.5 0 |
| Ron Dixon | 8 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 22 379 17.2 2 |
| Ike Hilliard | 7 | 1 7 7.0 0 | 27 386 14.3 2 |
| Daryl Jones | 13 | 1 4 4.0 0 | 8 90 11.2 0 |
| Amani Toomer | 16 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 82 1343 16.4 8 |
+----------------------+----+-----------------------+----------------------

1343 Yards for Toomer. Wow, he sucks.


Here's your "good" TE:

Jeremy Shockey | 15 | 74 894 12.1 2 |

Almost 1000 yards and Pro-Bowler.

Here's your average QB:

Kerry Collins | 16 | 335 545 61.5 4076 7.5 19 14 | 43 -3 0 |

Over 4000 yards.


Again with a QB that throws for over 4000 yards, a WR that catches for 1343, a TE that catches almost 1000 yards, and a RB that rushes for 1386 yards AND catches for 600 yards they finshed 22nd in points.

22nd in points. And this trend has been a Jim Fassel Giants trend. Moving the ball but not scoring.

No thanks.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by baalworship
Basically, Giants fans were calling for his head for years for the same reasons why people wanted GW out of here. Are Giants fans as knowledgeable as bills fans when it comes to football? Most (not all) finfans are trying to put a spin on why Wanny was retained. Their trying to make sense of it. Poor guys. In Denial? Shocked? Just like Wanny ran the bears to the ground, he'll do the same with the fins. At least The bears were smart to fire him. DUH fins extended Wanny to 2005.


Put a decent coach to run the talent we have now there won't be throwing on 1st and goal from the 1 yd. line. Get a coach who knows the run and our rb. situation will be intense. Henry is a warrior and McGahee has to take the job away from him. Can't wait to see that battle. :D.

Oh and BTW, we need a coach that won't pull a Wade Philipps on our rb's or it could get ugly.

[DraftBoy]

-No other WR over 400 yards
-5th round pick (Jones) plays more than Carter and Hillard
-TD-INT ration is very avg
-7.5 avg yards per catch? Id like to see that a little bit higher
-Shockey sure can catch too bad it only was in the endzone twice

Your nitpicking the stats. His team was MEDIOCRE at best, and we havent even looked at the D yet.

[The_Philster]

In 2002, Sean Payton called the offense the first half of the season. The team seemed to do better when Fassel took over the play-calling.

[baalworship]

If the 2002 Giants were mediocre what do you think the 2004 Bills are going to be on the offensive side of the ball? Hey, if you want to make excuses for the guy, fine. The fact is that Jim Fassel's Giants NEVER had a top 10 team in scoring and only Once out of 7 years had a team that wasn't 20th or worst.


I don't understand when Jim Fassel became this offensive mastermind and how he will become this when he takes over the Bills. I am desperate for a real coach here. I just don't see Fassel as the guy.

[nolimit]

i 've stopped reading some of your posts who are against Fassel coming to Buffalo because all u guys want to do is look at stats! Shall we go into the vault of stats and pull out Bill Bellichicks stats as head coach for the Browns! he was a complete failure and now look at him! he wasnt half the coach that Fassel was his first time around! Fact is Fassel stepped up from O cord of Arizona to have a nice long tenure in one of the most critical cities in the world, not to mention very average talent for most of those years! This man has jewels made of Titanium to survive NYC! If he gets the Buffalo job I fully expect him to get this ship pointed in the right direction! All you naysayers will regret it!

[justasportsfan]

If we do indeed get Fassel any chance he'll take his OL coach with him? :idunno:

[The Natrix]

I think the Giants talent is mediocre at best. People were way overrating them at the beginning of the season. I was not surprised by their performance like I was the Bills. I remember laughing at the thread someone here started about the Giants being a SB contender and many were agreeing, so you are not alone on this baalwhorship. Maybe someone can dig it out, I'm to lazy.

[baalworship]

nolimit: Your Belichick argument could be used to defend GW and Gilbride too. With head coaches it's wins and playoff wins. 2 playoff wins in 7 years, YIPPPPPEEEEE!

As for offensive prowess, points scored is what's up. And Fassel's Giants have been a terrible offensive team throughout his tenure. Only once did they finish above 20th in points scored. Sorry, that's not exciting.



If we want offensive prowess, I would much rather have Charlie Weis. Now that's a guy doing it with smoke & mirrors.
Weis Offers A Versatile Background




By Bob Glauber
STAFF WRITER

January 1, 2004

Charlie Weis can only imagine his wife's reaction if he's named the Giants' next head coach.

"My wife [Maura] would walk all the way from Cumberland, Rhode Island, if I gave her the opportunity," the New England Patriots' offensive coordinator said.

Weis says it would fulfill a lifelong dream if he got the job.

"Obviously, growing up as a Giants fan, of course, it's important. I grew up a half-hour from here, and I've lost an awful lot of money at that [Meadowlands] racetrack," Weis joked. "This is home for me. I grew up in New Jersey, so anything I can and will say can be used against me in a court of law."

Weis is high on the list of Giants head coaching prospects and is scheduled to be interviewed today near the Patriots' training facility.

"Charlie Weis is a good football coach," said Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi, who will interview Weis along with chief operating officer John Mara. "He's a guy who loves to coach. You can just tell."

Weis is a well-respected offensive tactician who is credited with speeding the development of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, who helped New England win the the Super Bowl two years ago as a first-year starter in relief of the injured Drew Bledsoe.

Weis has enjoyed a long and distinguished apprenticeship that he believes makes him qualified to be an NFL head coach. A former New Jersey high school coach at Boonton, Morristown and Franklin Township, Weis convinced former Giants coach Bill Parcells in 1989 that he could help him as an assistant coach.

Parcells always liked the idea of finding young, hungry assistants, so he let Weis break down game film, attend practices and do some scouting. All this while Weis was coaching at Franklin Township High, which won the New Jersey state championship that season.

Parcells was impressed enough to hire Weis full-time the next season as a defensive assistant and assistant special-teams coach. It was quite a season for Weis: The Giants won Super Bowl XXV.

Weis stayed on the following two seasons as Ray Handley's running backs coach, then rejoined Parcells in New England. Versatility once again was Weis' strong suit - he coached the tight ends in 1993-94, the running backs in 1995 and the receivers in 1996, the year the Patriots went to the Super Bowl.

Parcells brought Weis with him to the Jets in 1997 and promoted him to offensive coordinator in 1998. Parcells wasn't entirely happy with Weis' play-calling the following year, however, and the two had a major falling-out after the season. When Parcells stepped down as the Jets' head coach, Weis went with Bill Belichick to New England, where he has been ever since.

Weis had a major health scare last year, when he underwent gastric bypass surgery and had to be hospitalized for several weeks because of post-operative complications. He had temporary numbness in his legs but has since regained much of his strength. He's ready for the next stage of his career.

"Listen, I've been in the league for 14 years, and I've worked under two of the best head coaches that have ever coached the game," Weis said of Parcells and Belichick. "If you haven't been grilled by these two guys, then you're sorry. Every assistant coach would like an opportunity to run his own show."

If he doesn't get the Giants' job, Weis hopes a good friend does.

"Romeo [Crennel] and I are very, very close," Weis said of the Patriots' defensive coordinator. "If I don't get that job, I hope he gets it. No disrespect to any other candidates, but I have no more respect for anyone than Romeo."

Charlie Weis File

Date of birth: March 30, 1956.

Hometown: Trenton, N.J.

High School: Middlesex (N.J.). College: Notre Dame.

Playing experience: No college or pro playing experience.

College coaching: South Carolina (1985-88).

Pro coaching: Giants (1990-92), Patriots (1993-96); Jets (1997-99); Patriots (2000-present).

Coaching style: Not only looks a lot like Bill Parcells, but acts like him, too. Very demanding and hard-nosed. Doesn't tolerate mistakes.

X's and O's: Imaginative and aggressive offensive tactician who likes to use spread formations to open up the offense. Will occasionally use trick plays and likes middle-to-deep passing game whenever possible.

Leadership: A no-nonsense guy, and bombastic when he doesn't like something. Tends to be somewhat subdued as an assistant, but is expected to be more demonstrative as a head coach.

Schmooze factor: Enjoys dealing with the media, although he doesn't often get the chance because Bill Belichick rarely lets his assistants talk. Some concern about being thin-skinned, something you can't be in this market.


Here's Charlie Weis's stats with Pats:

Year Points Yards

2000 25 22
2001 6 19
2002 10 22
2003 12 18



Almost a mirror image of Fassel. Not a lot of yards but opportunistic in putting points up with a very mediocre group of receivers & running backs.

[TigerJ]

I am under no illusion that Fassel is the perfect coach. I am hoping that with the solid defence Buffalo has now, and at least some talent on offence, he might have enough in the way of smarts to hire some good offensive assistants and design an offensive system that can compensate for some of Bledsoe's weaknesses. I'm also hoping that TD can fill in some of the personnel weaknesses on offence with some free agents and a decent draft. There are some college coaches that I might prefer if only because their imperfections are not so visible. I also like Charlie Weis, but if the Bills go with a retread each one has some wart that makes me wonder. TD is just going to have to sift through the warts and decide which ones he can live with.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by nolimit
i 've stopped reading some of your posts who are against Fassel coming to Buffalo because all u guys want to do is look at stats! Shall we go into the vault of stats and pull out Bill Bellichicks stats as head coach for the Browns! he was a complete failure and now look at him! he wasnt half the coach that Fassel was his first time around! Fact is Fassel stepped up from O cord of Arizona to have a nice long tenure in one of the most critical cities in the world, not to mention very average talent for most of those years! This man has jewels made of Titanium to survive NYC! If he gets the Buffalo job I fully expect him to get this ship pointed in the right direction! All you naysayers will regret it!

i will tell you what.. i am not looking at stats.. and i can tell you i dont want him.. because i watched games.. his offense is over complicated.. this is a known fact.. they dont produce in the endzone.. his offense has never been a top scoring offense.. and he passes too much and doesnt run enough.. which is exactly what we have all *****ed about all year..

[nolimit]

It's called injuries Tonk! He had the highest rated offense last year! I love him as a coach! Here is a very good article that I wamt all your naysayers to read:

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=1982188

[baalworship]

Only once in 7 years did Fassel's Giants finish above 20th in points scored out of 32 teams.


BTW, The Sporting News sucks. I think it's ironic that this same newspaper claimed a couple of years ago that out of the top 100 players in the NFL, Buffalo had zero players but makes excuses for Fassel. Yeah, his players love him. That's a plus. But the Bills can do better than that.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by baalworship
Only once in 7 years did Fassel's Giants finish above 20th in points scored out of 32 teams.



that says it all right there... that is enough reason to not want him.. he is an "offensive" guru, who cant score.. he is no different then gilbride.

[mybills]

Originally posted by The_Philster
He took an average team to the Super Bowl. Imagine what he could do with this roster. :drool: If he makes it as the head coach, I don't see a reason to complain. I have a friend who's a big Giants fan and she was upset they fired him.

I'm a Giants fan, and it doesn't upset me that he was fired. It will upset me if the Bills get him though. :mad:

As for comparing Collins & Bledsoe...:huh: No way!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by mybills

As for comparing Collins & Bledsoe...:huh: No way!

why?

[Earthquake Enyart]

No team playing in northern weather is ever going to lead the league in offense.

I think the comparison between Bledsoe and Collins is accurate. Running an offense like the Giants (at least the 2002 Giants) is what we'll have to do with Drew to have any success.

[mybills]

Originally posted by Tatonka


why?

Collins isn't blind, nor does he have tunnel vision. He scopes the field for a 2nd & 3rd intended.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by mybills


Collins isn't blind, nor does he have tunnel vision. He scopes the field for a 2nd & 3rd intended.

Nope.

[The Natrix]

Collins is better than Bledsoe, in my opinion.

[cordog]

I wouldnt blame Fassel for all the Giants' woes. A friend of mine is a big Giants fan and he said their GM (Acorsi?) is pretty much a big douche bag. Im in no way defending Fassel, but i think there are alot of variables weighing in on the Giants dismal season.