okay, Ingtar, et. al...How about this draft?

[shadowfax]

First of all, this is how I'm guessing the draft will fall, at this early point:

1. I think the chargers are going to take manning.
2. the Raiders will take Fitzgerald.
3. The cards will take Big Ben.
4. The Giants will take Sean Taylor
5. The Skins will take Tommie Harris.
6. The Lions will take Kellen Winslow, which sucks.
7. The falcons will take Roy Williams, who I'm not high on cuz he's knock kneed and inflexible, and then
8. The Browns will take Gallery and
9. the Jags will take DeAngelo Hall.
10. The Texans will take Starks.
11. Steelers will take Strait cuz their secondary flat blows
12. Jets will take Reggie Williams.
13. Bills will take...

Okay. At this point, considering only the major holes the Bills need to fill (WR, TE, FS, QB), the blue chippers are gone.

Some of the highly touted 1st round prospects that remain:
Wilfork, Lavalais, Vilma, DJ Williams, Clayton, JP Losman, Will Poole, Jake Grove, and some others.

If JP Losman is there, I can't imagine the Bills will want to pull the trigger on a 1st round QB, but they just might be able to pull a trade down for a 2nd round pick. So...

What do you think about the notion of the Bills trading down to a team that covets Losman, let's say...the Dolphins, who are on record as saying they're going to draft a QB on the first day (just like the Bills I guess) and then taking:

1. Lee Evans WR (fast, talented, should have healthy knees)
2a. Chad Lavalais (I saw a dominant player last night...)
2b. Ben Watson TE (Big, fast, good kid)
3. Jeb Terry, G
4. Josh Harris
5. Alex Stepanovich, G
6. Arnold Parker, S
7. Robert Kent, QB

Yes, two QB prospects because AVP is done and who on earth is convinced that TBrown can throw a TD pass? Both Harris and Kent have very different styles and skills, and in the 7th round, why not take a flyer?

Thoughts?

[The_Philster]

TE is not a major hole that needs filled. We need to utilize the TE more is all.

[TigerJ]

There are two schools of thought on tight end. Phil, you see TE as a blocker and a safe target for a QB under pressure. If a coach is going to use the TE for that purpose and only that purpose, then what we've got is good enough. Some teams use the TE as a stretch the field offensive weapon. If you've got a guy like Tony Gonzalez, then that's how you've got to use him. Otherwise you're wasting his talent. I think some people remember Ben Coates as a guy who could kill defences by beating safeties down the middle. He didn't have blazing speed, but he was faster than a lot of TEs. The rationale is that if Drew Bledsoe had a guy like that, he would be very comfortable throwing deep to him. It would have the same effect as adding a second fast receiver to pair with Moulds, forcing defences to play honest and opening up other parts of the offence.

I don't think Buffalo has to get a TE in the off season, but I think a more athletic (and faster) guy would enable the offence to do some things better that they don't do well now. Besides Dave Moore is in the twilight of his career. The Bills wouldn't lose a whole lot by losing him.

If the top twelve go as you predict, shadowfax, I think a case could be made for drafting Wilfork. Sam Adams was about everything Bills fans could have reasonably hoped for this past season, but with his arthritic knees, there is always going to be a question about whether he can finish a season. He's not the oldest DT around, but he's got about the oldest pair of knees and every year he gets closer to the end. Wilfork has the bulk and the quickness to be a long term solution, and he would have a little time to develop without the pressure of starting and playing full time right away.

If Winfield bolts the team, then Chris Gamble might be worth a top 15 pick. Not a lot of others though, and a trade down is not an impossibility.

One top player you missed is Shawn Andrews, OT from Arkansas. He should be a top 10 pick. If he is someone else will drop.

[justasportsfan]

I agree we need a TE. Question is, we may already have them. Seemed to me Travis Browns favorite targets were the TE's. Maybe Drew didn't have the confidence to throw it at them or Gibride just didn't want to and since Travis has been injured for most of the year, I doubt he knew Gilbrides system which is why he had success moving the ball

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by The_Philster
TE is not a major hole that needs filled. We need to utilize the TE more is all.

I've heard this mentioned on this board quite frequently recently.

I'm of the opinion that if your guy isn't as good as the guy on the other team, then your guy is a weakness.

Having said that, I have a very difficult time finding even 10 other teams that have a TE worse than our starting TE (whether you value blocking, receiving, or a combination). Because of that, I think TE is a big weakness (I consider the 20-30 range to mean we're one of the worst in the league).

What teams do you think have a worse TE than we do?

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
I agree we need a TE. Question is, we may already have them. Seemed to me Travis Browns favorite targets were the TE's. Maybe Drew didn't have the confidence to throw it at them or Gibride just didn't want to and since Travis has been injured for most of the year, I doubt he knew Gilbrides system which is why he had success moving the ball

Campbell got out of Cincy because he was going to be their 3rd TE. Moore has never been anything more than a fill-in at TE and now he's older.

I think we didn't throw to them because they suck.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by HenryRules
Campbell got out of Cincy because he was going to be their 3rd TE. Moore has never been anything more than a fill-in at TE and now he's older.

I think we didn't throw to them because they suck.

campbell was not the 3rd TE... he was number 2.. and it was in cleveland, not cincy.. and did not get out.. he got traded... just to clear that entirely incorrect statement up a bit..

i think campbell showed ALOT last year.. for a 6th round pick, he didnt drop passes.. blocked well.. and hung on to the ball after some disgusting hits he took..

like tiger said though.. he fits the first school of thought on a TE.. he is not gonzo, obviously.

shadow.. there is no way that the lions take winslow.. they are happy with their TE Ricks, who is definately a pass catcher, not a blocker.

also, i dont think that Lavalais goes in the first.. there are alot of guys in front of him.

anyone follow florida state? i really liked what i saw from dennis dockery, a 4 year starter at FSU.. he looked great, and has a been a playmaker for some time there.. he looks to be right in that same 2nd round type guy as lavalais does.. in case someone snags him early.

[R. Rich]

Originally posted by shadowfax
First of all, this is how I'm guessing the draft will fall, at this early point:

1. I think the chargers are going to take manning.
2. the Raiders will take Fitzgerald.
3. The cards will take Big Ben.
4. The Giants will take Sean Taylor
5. The Skins will take Tommie Harris.
6. The Lions will take Kellen Winslow, which sucks.
7. The falcons will take Roy Williams, who I'm not high on cuz he's knock kneed and inflexible, and then
8. The Browns will take Gallery and
9. the Jags will take DeAngelo Hall.
10. The Texans will take Starks.
11. Steelers will take Strait cuz their secondary flat blows
12. Jets will take Reggie Williams.
13. Bills will take...

Okay. At this point, considering only the major holes the Bills need to fill (WR, TE, FS, QB), the blue chippers are gone.

Some of the highly touted 1st round prospects that remain:
Wilfork, Lavalais, Vilma, DJ Williams, Clayton, JP Losman, Will Poole, Jake Grove, and some others.

If JP Losman is there, I can't imagine the Bills will want to pull the trigger on a 1st round QB, but they just might be able to pull a trade down for a 2nd round pick. So...

What do you think about the notion of the Bills trading down to a team that covets Losman, let's say...the Dolphins, who are on record as saying they're going to draft a QB on the first day (just like the Bills I guess) and then taking:

1. Lee Evans WR (fast, talented, should have healthy knees)
2a. Chad Lavalais (I saw a dominant player last night...)
2b. Ben Watson TE (Big, fast, good kid)
3. Jeb Terry, G
4. Josh Harris
5. Alex Stepanovich, G
6. Arnold Parker, S
7. Robert Kent, QB

Yes, two QB prospects because AVP is done and who on earth is convinced that TBrown can throw a TD pass? Both Harris and Kent have very different styles and skills, and in the 7th round, why not take a flyer?

Thoughts?

In that scenario, T Shawn Andrews of Arkansas is still on the board after 12 picks. I don't think that will happen, but if it does, he would be a nice pickup at 13. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the Bills trade down to a lower pick, acquire an additional 2nd rounder, and draft DE Kenechi Udeze of USC. He was all over the place at the Rose Bowl and I would love to see him as our pass rusher.

Kent will probably NOT be around in the 7th round. He could be gone in either the 4th or 5th round, as his stock is rising.

[Jan Reimers]

Udeze and Raushon Woods would both be available in Shadow's scenario - they are rated as the 8th and 9th best overall players in a couple of listings I have seen. Both could be playmakers at areas of critical need.

I would consider Losman if he is available in the 2nd round.

[Tatonka]

losman should go before rivers.. but either of them in the second would be ok.

[R. Rich]

Originally posted by Tatonka
losman should go before rivers.. but either of them in the second would be ok.

True. What do you think of Udeze? With the way he performed in the Rose Bowl, we may have to take him with the 13th pick, if we're interested in him.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by R. Rich



True. What do you think of Udeze? With the way he performed in the Rose Bowl, we may have to take him with the 13th pick, if we're interested in him.

If we take him were interested.

[R. Rich]

Originally posted by The Spaz
If we take him were interested.

I was hoping we could trade down to somewhere in the 20s, pick up another 2nd rounder, and still be able to draft Udeze. It doesen't look like that's going to be possible.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by R. Rich


I was hoping we could trade down to somewhere in the 20s, pick up another 2nd rounder, and still be able to draft Udeze. It doesen't look like that's going to be possible.

I like that scenario (who wouldn't) I agree though that it is a long shot. If we get 2 2nd rnd picks one of them could be be Losman or Rivers.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by HenryRules




I'm of the opinion that if your guy isn't as good as the guy on the other team, then your guy is a weakness.

By that thinking we have upgrade 20 starting positions since we have only 2 pro-bolwers.

Campbell is just fine. We did not throw to the TE's because Kevin Gilbride is an idiot!