Ruben Brown

[BigZ]

I emailed Howard Simon yesterday and asked the question: would you keep Ruben if he restructured his contract?

He answered that he'd do it only if he took a major pay cut.

I agree but thought this might be a good topic for the board. Peer voting plays a part in the pro bowl and Ruben has made it again. Has he lost it? Would we be better off with someone like Sobieski or a FA?

OL, IMO, is going to be one of the most important contributors to the offence next year if we're going to be better. Ruben wanted to run the ball more and run blocking is one of the easiest ways to get 5 men to jell into a unit. My guess is that MM is going to bring smashmouth football back to the Bills and that Ruben would not only love it but be good at it and be willing to take that pay cut to do it.

Opinions?

[saviorbledsoe]

I hope so. We cant afford to take a step back on the Oline.

[clumping platelets]

I'm truly split on this. Ruben does appear to have lost something over the years. However, how much of that this season was play calling, the injuries he fought through, bad route running, holding the ball too long........:dizzy:

One thing that teams can no longer do in the salary cap era is hang on to veterans too long with too much cap space. One good thing is that the Bills are in decent cap shape and have many options to deal with Ruben:

1) Outright release before June 1st: This saves about $1.9 million in 2004 but also frees up about $1.35 million in 2005 & 2006 because of bonus amortization acceleration in 2004. (He apparently has a $1.8 million roster bonus coming from playing time incentives per Buffalo News a couple of weeks ago)

2) Outright release after June 1st: not really an option unless he delays payment of the roster bonus or restructures first. Thus, I will not consider this option fully

3) Trade: I seriously doubt that we could get much in the way of a trade for him. The cap ramifications would be the same as if he were release prior to June 1st. If some team called and offered a 2nd rd pick, take it and replace him with a FA and/or draft choice.

4) Pay cut: His salary for each of the next 3 yrs is $2.7 million with bonus amortization of $1.336 million/season. He also has a $1.8 million roster bonus payable in March. I believe this will be the route that TD takes with Ruben and asks him to accept a paycut to about $1.5 million. Make the $1.8 million roster bonus a signing bonus and amortize it for the last 3 yrs of his deal. This would save nearly $2 million on the 2004 cap.

Hopefully, he will address the problems he has health wise and re-work his deal to the satisfaction of the organization, his agent, and Ruben and he can finish his career here in B-LO :)

[Dozerdog]

I'd like to see what McNally can do for him and the rest of the line.


I'd rather have an experienced Ruben with a few MPH off his fast ball than a rookie- because we have other holes to fill on the line. After next season, maybe.

[kgun12]

Keep Ruben, I think the problem at the end of the season was that he cares so much about this team and winning that he finally blew up. YES! he does make some bonehead mistakes but like it was stated earlier how much is that because of other factors. As far as the off- sides, I would rather have an aggressive linemen trying to get the jump.

[Dozerdog]

I'd even want Ruben to retire a Bill- if it is economically feasible.

[HenryRules]

I think we should keep Ruben ... with all the young guys we have on the line, his experience is an important asset.

That said, his play has declined, and I don't think a pro bowl for lineman is a strong endorsement (it's not a slap in the face obviously). We only play 12 teams a year, which means that 19 teams don't see us play that year. During the course of a season, I don't think that too many players are going to focus on the linemen on teams they don't play against just so that they can give an accurate pro bowl vote - I'm sure that other OL and DL might watch to maybe learn something, but I doubt a backup FS on St. Louis watched Ruben play a whole bunch of football this year. I even recall interviews with players saying similar things (although where/when slip my mind right now).

[Ickybaluky]

Brown was on WEEI in Boston prior to the Tennessee game. They had him on because Fred Smerlas does the show and they wanted his opinion on the game since Buffalo played both teams.

He didn't really want to talk much about what happened at the end of the season, because he felt he was painted in a poor way with the way it happened and didn't think any good would come out of his commenting on it.

The one thing he did state firmly was he wants to remain a Bill and stay in Buffalo. He doesn't know if the team wants him, but he was adamant that he does not want to play for any other team.

It sounded like he was aware that his contract will be an issue, IMO, and he was leery about what would happen. My guess, based on his comments, is that he would be willing to take a pay cut, although it is hard to say how far he is willing to bend.

That said, he sounds strongly enough committed to Buffalo that I think his contract will be worked out and he will stay a Bill. If not, then Buffalo probably just wants to get rid of him.

Then again, the Pats will be in the market for OG...

[.]

I want Ruben.

I'd hate to have Ruben be a Pat

[socalfan]

I don't think Rueben will get a new contract...that would have happened in any of the previous 3 years. I think TD will let it run its course or until the Bills waive Rueben.

[Ed]

Good info NE39, thanks.

I have a feeling Ruben is going to be willing to take a pay cut, but the Bills are going to want him to take a signifcant cut, but it'll be to big of a blow to Ruben's ego and things could get ugly. I hope that doesn't happen though because regardless of how good Ruben is, he's one of the few guys that has put everything he has into this organization and community and really wants to see Buffalo win a championship.

I think Ruben has a right to be upset about what happened at the end of the season too. There was a lot of speculation from the media about what happened when no one really knew the details and they really made Ruben look like a bad guy as if he didn't care about the team and was abandoning his teammates.

[juice]

Originally posted by socalfan
I don't think Rueben will get a new contract...that would have happened in any of the previous 3 years. I think TD will let it run its course or until the Bills waive Rueben.

Who on the line is nearly as experienced or skilled. A holding call per game wont end his career in Buffalo.He might restructure his contract but I dont know how much you ask a pro bowler and your best lineman to cut.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

I don't see how you can forgive a guy who Abandoned his team and said "I don't have the energy to play in this game this week". NO WAY I SAY WE CUT HIS SORRY BUTT! try to sign Winfield back with the money left on Brown's contract we can't lose this guy or try to trade him for a #3 first round draft choice and draft a fast WR, QB, TE or maybe someone else!

[LABillsFan]

Does Ruben's downfall coincide with GW as the coach? Admittedly I too have been on his case, but I really do think that he was a product of the system. He is a good player, but the last few years the Bills haven't figured out who they are as a team and players haven't been producing as much as they should. MM seems to have that attitude and is able to work with what he has. If the Bills are trusting him, let him and or his staff work with the line. Great lines don't just appear they take a solid 2 years of playing together to work as a unit, i.e. KC and Indy.

[Mr. Cynical]

He is in an odd place...he is often looked at as the "last link to the Glory Years" but in reality he came on board after those years were over. I guess because he played with the Great Ones (Kelly, TT, Reed, Smith, etc.) he is viewed as the link.

Anyway, while I didn't like the way it ended last year I do think the guy has good character and is committed to Buffalo both on and off the field. That's hard to find. And yeah, he's made a S***load of cash with them (so I don't feel *too* bad), but after suffering through so many bad seasons I think the guy deserves to be with the Bills if/when they get back on top. And it's not like they'd be hanging on to him as a decoration...I mean, he did make the pro bowl....say what you will about his decline, but that still means he's pretty good.

[caveboy]

"I'd like to see what McNally can do for him and the rest of the line."

I agree. We gave RJ and Drew a few years each under new regimes, the rational; being that new 'systems/coaches' would turn them around – let's see what the new OL coach will do.


"Great lines don't just appear they take a solid 2 years of playing together to work as a unit, i.e. KC and Indy."

Yep. Problem is, injuries can screw up that regularity. We've had enough over these past 2-3 years to keep us from playing consistant. If MM will commit to the ball-control run type offense he's hinting at, I think this line WILL get better by having to run-block more.

Once we re-establish a dominant run-blocking line, we can throw more off of that. This year it seemed like we had a 80/20 or 70/30 pass/run ratio.

I like 60/40. ;-]

[juice]

Originally posted by caveboy
"I'd like to see what McNally can do for him and the rest of the line."

I agree. We gave RJ and Drew a few years each under new regimes, the rational; being that new 'systems/coaches' would turn them around – let's see what the new OL coach will do.


"Great lines don't just appear they take a solid 2 years of playing together to work as a unit, i.e. KC and Indy."

Yep. Problem is, injuries can screw up that regularity. We've had enough over these past 2-3 years to keep us from playing consistant. If MM will commit to the ball-control run type offense he's hinting at, I think this line WILL get better by having to run-block more.

Once we re-establish a dominant run-blocking line, we can throw more off of that. This year it seemed like we had a 80/20 or 70/30 pass/run ratio.

I like 60/40. ;-]

And he's your best run blocker.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

I can't believe you guys want Ruben back!!!. HE DESERTED THE TEAM and said " that it would be hard to get up for this game. I don't care if he makes it to 100 pro-bowls let's cut him loose and use that money to resign Winfield we can't lose this guy. Or try trading him in the draft for a #2 or #3 pick then we can get a Roethlisberger or a Kellen Winslow Jr or a fast WR some team out there must want him.

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by BillsChampsin04
I don't see how you can forgive a guy who Abandoned his team and said "I don't have the energy to play in this game this week". NO WAY I SAY WE CUT HIS SORRY BUTT! try to sign Winfield back with the money left on Brown's contract we can't lose this guy or try to trade him for a #3 first round draft choice and draft a fast WR, QB, TE or maybe someone else!


Originally posted by BillsChampsin04
I can't believe you guys want Ruben back!!!. HE DESERTED THE TEAM and said " that it would be hard to get up for this game. I don't care if he makes it to 100 pro-bowls let's cut him loose and use that money to resign Winfield we can't lose this guy. Or try trading him in the draft for a #2 or #3 pick then we can get a Roethlisberger or a Kellen Winslow Jr or a fast WR some team out there must want him.


try reading this for your answer....;) (http://billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35349&highlight=ruben)

[Throne Logic]

Originally posted by BillsChampsin04
I can't believe you guys want Ruben back!!!. HE DESERTED THE TEAM and said " that it would be hard to get up for this game. I don't care if he makes it to 100 pro-bowls let's cut him loose and use that money to resign Winfield we can't lose this guy. Or try trading him in the draft for a #2 or #3 pick then we can get a Roethlisberger or a Kellen Winslow Jr or a fast WR some team out there must want him.

Could you post a link to that quote?

This doesn't fit the other details that have come out regarding this incedent.

Don't be bashing a man based upon what other people have said about him. Make damned sure that he was the one who said those words and check the context from which the quote was taken.

[Bert102176]

I would like to see them restructure his contract and take a paycut, I like Ruben.

[TKO]

Originally posted by BillsChampsin04
I can't believe you guys want Ruben back!!!. HE DESERTED THE TEAM and said " that it would be hard to get up for this game. I don't care if he makes it to 100 pro-bowls let's cut him loose and use that money to resign Winfield we can't lose this guy. Or try trading him in the draft for a #2 or #3 pick then we can get a Roethlisberger or a Kellen Winslow Jr or a fast WR some team out there must want him.

Are you saying that TD can trade Brown outright for a first-round draft pick, let alone a top 5 pick? That's absurd. Even if you couple the 13th pick with Brown, I don't think any GM will pass up a Blue Chip prospect for a declining RG and a lower pick in the draft. Plus, the only thing Brown did wrong was show up late. I'm sure he'll take a pay cut, but how much idk. If we cut ties with Brown, we'll just create another hole to fill IMO. Also, if you want a speed WR with our draft pick, the Bills can stay at #13 and fill that hole (Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, Rashaun Woods), that is if TD doesn't do it through Free Agency.

[colin]

Ruben got jobbed at then end of this season, and he is a still a very capable lineman.

I think a small paycut/restructure is in order, but the guy has mad heart and dedication, and if you 5 O linemen with his attitudue, you would have a smash mouth kick ass line.

He is a leader on the team, and you don't ditch a leader when you are trying to put in the last few pieces to make a run for the gold.

He stays.

[shelby]

As much as i ***** about his obligatory holding penalty per game, i would like Reuben to stay also. Hopefully he'll be willing to take a pay cut.

[jamze132]

td must do whatever it takes to keep brown. it shouldn't take much. and i guess i am alone here but how many times did winfield get burned last year? no interceptions? he could have won the dallas game had he made that catch late in the game. granted he is a hard hitter but kevin thomas isn't any slouch either. draft the best available cb in the 3-5 round area (depending on what happens in free agency) and let them compete for the 2-3 cb position. we don't need winfield if he wants to sign elsewhere for more money and a chance to win. if he stays on board, the bills will get back very soon, not becuase of him, just because our defense is that good and i think that mm and our new o-line coach will light a fire under the line and drew's ass. i predict a 10-6 record, wildcard birth/win and a division playoff loss

[juice]

Originally posted by jamze132
td must do whatever it takes to keep brown. it shouldn't take much. and i guess i am alone here but how many times did winfield get burned last year? no interceptions? he could have won the dallas game had he made that catch late in the game. granted he is a hard hitter but kevin thomas isn't any slouch either. draft the best available cb in the 3-5 round area (depending on what happens in free agency) and let them compete for the 2-3 cb position. we don't need winfield if he wants to sign elsewhere for more money and a chance to win. if he stays on board, the bills will get back very soon, not becuase of him, just because our defense is that good and i think that mm and our new o-line coach will light a fire under the line and drew's ass. i predict a 10-6 record, wildcard birth/win and a division playoff loss

We should keep him but I dont know how much of a pay cut a Pro Bowler is expected to take when he's the best most experienced lineman you have and a new coach who wants a pwr run game. And Ruben is also your best run blocker. "Winfield has to make that Pick" thats why he isn't in the Pro Bowl and TY Law is. ACC UNC Knocks #1 UCONN

[shelby]

Originally posted by jamze132
td must do whatever it takes to keep brown. it shouldn't take much. and i guess i am alone here but how many times did winfield get burned last year? no interceptions? he could have won the dallas game had he made that catch late in the game. granted he is a hard hitter but kevin thomas isn't any slouch either. draft the best available cb in the 3-5 round area (depending on what happens in free agency) and let them compete for the 2-3 cb position. we don't need winfield if he wants to sign elsewhere for more money and a chance to win. if he stays on board, the bills will get back very soon, not becuase of him, just because our defense is that good and i think that mm and our new o-line coach will light a fire under the line and drew's ass. i predict a 10-6 record, wildcard birth/win and a division playoff loss
Welcome to the Zone! i hope your prediction will be correct.

[Cntrygal]

welcome jamze132!!!! :)