Hine Ward vs. Josh Reed

[Tatonka]

it took hines ward season 4 before he blew up... and guess who happened to be the new offensive coordinator that year? mularky.. he figured out how to use ward's abilities to help the team the most.. take a look at these stats.

3 years before mularky... aka, the gilbride era for pittsburg

1998 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 0 15catches 246yards 0tds
1999 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 14 61catches 638yards 7tds
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 15 48catches 672yards 4tds

3 years with mularky as his OC

2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 94catches 1003yards 4tds
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 112catches 1329yards 12tds
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 95catches 1163yards 10tds

josh reed's numbers for the last 2 years...
16 2 37catches 509yards 2tds
16 16 58catches 588yards 2tds

mark my words.. he will have at least 8 tds this upcoming year.. and some rushing yards to boot.. he will be used on the randle el, ward reverse/gimick plays.

alot of people are hollering about the need for another wr to stretch the field.. speed... big wr.. whatever you guys! we have moulds.. who is a superstar... easily a top 5 wr when healthy... no team has 2 of those.. and we dont need 2.. reed will be a strong number 2 and shaw is a great number 3.. and i for one have not given up on aiken.. who just finished his first year as a 4th round rookie.

guys be patient and trust in who we have.. no one we draft this year at the wr spot is going to come in and surplant any of the guys we have there now..

we should be pounding TH and WM all game anyway.. but if we have to make some plays in the passing game, the guys we have are going to be plenty good.

[zone]

Originally posted by Tatonka
it took hines ward season 4 before he blew up... and guess who happened to be the new offensive coordinator that year? mularky.. he figured out how to use ward's abilities to help the team the most.. take a look at these stats.

3 years before mularky... aka, the gilbride era for pittsburg

1998 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 0 15catches 246yards 0tds
1999 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 14 61catches 638yards 7tds
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 15 48catches 672yards 4tds

3 years with mularky as his OC

2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 94catches 1003yards 4tds
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 112catches 1329yards 12tds
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 95catches 1163yards 10tds

josh reed's numbers for the last 2 years...
16 2 37catches 509yards 2tds
16 16 58catches 588yards 2tds

mark my words.. he will have at least 8 tds this upcoming year.. and some rushing yards to boot.. he will be used on the randle el, ward reverse/gimick plays.

alot of people are hollering about the need for another wr to stretch the field.. speed... big wr.. whatever you guys! we have moulds.. who is a superstar... easily a top 5 wr when healthy... no team has 2 of those.. and we dont need 2.. reed will be a strong number 2 and shaw is a great number 3.. and i for one have not given up on aiken.. who just finished his first year as a 4th round rookie.

guys be patient and trust in who we have.. no one we draft this year at the wr spot is going to come in and surplant any of the guys we have there now..

we should be pounding TH and WM all game anyway.. but if we have to make some plays in the passing game, the guys we have are going to be plenty good.

I agree complety.....

Moulds took time to come into his own also, Reed was automatic in 2k2, I don't remeber him droping anything, last year was a lot of pressure for a young kid, and he started to come back to form at the end of the year. I think we can expect very big things to come.

[HenryRules]

Ward never had a case of the dropsies as bad as Reed did though. During the Gilbride years, the general consensus was the Ward was being underutilized ... I don't think there's many people that think Reed deserves a larger role based on last year's performance.

I don't think drafting a WR is a solution for us ... but bringing in Northcutt or Jackson or one of the other FA receivers for a 2-year deal would be great. If Reed ends up taking the next step, he'll beat the guy out and then we'll have a great #3 (sorry, I disagree on Shaw - he's an ok #3, but nothing special). If Reed plays like he did last year, at least we'll then have 2 options out wide.

[Dozerdog]

Great post!


Spend the top picks n O line and QB of the future

[Ed]

Shaw's nothing special? What #3 WR's out there in the league did so much better? He put up good numbers, lead the team in TD receptions and came up with a lot of clutch catches on third down.

Considering Moulds was injured most of the season and Bledsoe had the worst year of his career, I'd say Shaw played great last year for a #3. I mean we're never going to have 3 1,000+ yd WR's.

I like Shaw and I like Reed, and with a healthy Moulds, better protection and a smarter OC, I think they're going to have their best year of their careers so far.

[zone]

I would like to see some speed at the other Flanker, and have reed play slot.

[juice]

Reed needs a position coach who can help him maintain his level of concentration and intensity on gameday. Along with the physical ability to be an all star he has to develope the mentality. ACC

[HenryRules]

I wasn't trying to downplay Shaw's contributions ... like I said, I think he's ok as a #3.

But someone like Jerry Porter or Dennis Northcutt (if you consider him higher on Cleveland's depth chart, then I think either Davis or Morgan is better) is what I'd consider a great #3. I can't think of every teams 3 wideouts off the top of my head, so I'm not saying that's the end of my list, but both of them are head and shoulders above Shaw IMO.

[Bmax]

i hope u guys are right .. my gut say no...on shaw reed has the deadly p word.. potential........I still want another weapon on offense.....if not wr what about te....Campbell is decent but when is the last time we had a guy that could go deep down the seam consistently.....Keith mckellar.....wow the time has come for the bills to go te early... Please no more lonnie johnson's



BMAX

WITH A TRADE DOWN OF COURSE....

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Bmax
Campbell is decent but when is the last time we had a guy that could go deep down the seam consistently.....Keith mckellar.....wow the time has come for the bills to go te early...

Actually, Riemersma was pretty good at getting downfield and as far as Campbell, I still think he'd do better with an offensive coordinator who wasn't afraid of using him.

[juice]

Originally posted by Bmax
i hope u guys are right .. my gut say no...on shaw reed has the deadly p word.. potential........I still want another weapon on offense.....if not wr what about te....Campbell is decent but when is the last time we had a guy that could go deep down the seam consistently.....Keith mckellar.....wow the time has come for the bills to go te early... Please no more lonnie johnson's



BMAX

WITH A TRADE DOWN OF COURSE....

If we could draft a deep threat that could become an immediate impact player, Cambell would be a more than adequate TE in a running offense. A playmaker would free Reed up as the slot reciever which is a spot better suited his abilities. ACC RIVERS RD. 2

[elltrain22]

Very insightful analysis. You make very good points at 2 very similar WR's. Hines Ward although, was a bit more productive in his first 2 yrs than Josh, but it still gives me alot more hope going into next season for Reed.

[HotRod]

Originally posted by Tatonka
it took hines ward season 4 before he blew up... and guess who happened to be the new offensive coordinator that year? mularky.. he figured out how to use ward's abilities to help the team the most.. take a look at these stats.

3 years before mularky... aka, the gilbride era for pittsburg

1998 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 0 15catches 246yards 0tds
1999 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 14 61catches 638yards 7tds
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 15 48catches 672yards 4tds

3 years with mularky as his OC

2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 94catches 1003yards 4tds
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 112catches 1329yards 12tds
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 95catches 1163yards 10tds

josh reed's numbers for the last 2 years...
16 2 37catches 509yards 2tds
16 16 58catches 588yards 2tds

mark my words.. he will have at least 8 tds this upcoming year.. and some rushing yards to boot.. he will be used on the randle el, ward reverse/gimick plays.

alot of people are hollering about the need for another wr to stretch the field.. speed... big wr.. whatever you guys! we have moulds.. who is a superstar... easily a top 5 wr when healthy... no team has 2 of those.. and we dont need 2.. reed will be a strong number 2 and shaw is a great number 3.. and i for one have not given up on aiken.. who just finished his first year as a 4th round rookie.

guys be patient and trust in who we have.. no one we draft this year at the wr spot is going to come in and surplant any of the guys we have there now..

we should be pounding TH and WM all game anyway.. but if we have to make some plays in the passing game, the guys we have are going to be plenty good.


Great post.

[Jan Reimers]

Great post, T. It gets me thinking of how many more 2nd and 3rd year guys we have who, with experience and better coaching, might be ready to make an impact this year - Wire, Kelsay, Aiken, McGahee, McGee, and the whole O line under McNally, including Pucillo and Williams.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by elltrain22
Hines Ward although, was a bit more productive in his first 2 yrs than Josh


Originally posted by Tatonka

16 0 15catches 246yards 0tds
16 14 61catches 638yards 7tds

16 2 37catches 509yards 2tds
16 16 58catches 588yards 2tds



hines ward - first 2 years
76 catches, 884 yards, 7 tds

josh reed - first 2 years
95 catches, 1097 yards, 4 tds

E, how are you judging production? because from what i see, reed was clearly the better WR for the first two years.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Tatonka




hines ward - first 2 years
76 catches, 884 yards, 7 tds

josh reed - first 2 years
95 catches, 1097 yards, 4 tds

E, how are you judging production? because from what i see, reed was clearly the better WR for the first two years.

But..but....:lol:

[BAM]

good post Tatonka :up:

Josh Reed reminds me a lot of Hines Ward for some reason...

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by BradAlanMiller
good post Tatonka :up:

Josh Reed reminds me a lot of Hines Ward for some reason...


they are almost identical twins.. thats why.. same height, weight, build, speed, ect..

they are also both light skinned african americans... but only reed has the left eye lopez face paint going.. :eek:

[Tatonka]

hey ing.. you see any comparison? do you think that reed has a chance to play as well as ward?

[juice]

Reed needs to be played in his position as #3 reciever. Clear regression last year.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Tatonka
hey ing.. you see any comparison? do you think that reed has a chance to play as well as ward?

Reed is almost like Ward I think as well. I don't think he is like Lisa "Left eye" Lopez though because I am pretty sure he wears the paint under the right eye.:snicker::beer:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Reed needs to be played in his position as #3 reciever. Clear regression last year.

i dont agree at all.. about where he needs to play... and i wouldnt call it regression.. at least not him personally.. he struggled early.. but was fine the last 3/4th of the year.. the whole offense regressed though.. with moulds/henry injuries.. reed was not ready to step up that big. the guy is a first round talent wr.. bottom line.

ingtar, do you know anything about our new wr coach?

[eyedog]

I also think Reed would fit better as the slot 3rd receiver. I think if they can get a top receiver in this draft and they put Reed in the slot he can really come on. Moulds on one side, R. Williams on the other, Reed in the slot, that lineup will really open up the middle of the field for Reed to do some damage. They can't double everybody and I can assure you defenses will be more worried about the other two. That is not taking into account WM coming out of the backfield as a third down back. Of course the problem will be if the line can get their heads out of their asses.

[Tatonka]

so we need three 1st round wrs on this team to be successful? and shaws good play deserves to be benched? i just dont agree.

[eyedog]

You don't have to agree. Point taken.
I don't think much of Shaw as anything but a 3rd or 4th. I also think Reed would be much better than Shaw in the slot and going across the middle because of his size and ability to break tackles. He started in college as a running back and his game would be catching the 7-8 yd pass over the middle and breaking a few tackles.
If you don't draft a threat to put across from Moulds, than Shaw is that guy, and he doesn't scare anyone imo. Thus more focus comes back to Reed.

[juice]

Originally posted by eyedog
You don't have to agree. Point taken.
I don't think much of Shaw as anything but a 3rd or 4th. I also think Reed would be much better than Shaw in the slot and going across the middle because of his size and ability to break tackles. He started in college as a running back and his game would be catching the 7-8 yd pass over the middle and breaking a few tackles.
If you don't draft a threat to put across from Moulds, than Shaw is that guy, and he doesn't scare anyone imo. Thus more focus comes back to Reed.

More focus comes back to Moulds, your big play man and Reed can be neutralized by single coverage by a good cover corner like Ty Law. At this point you've lost 65% of your big play potential.

[BigZ]

Originally posted by Tatonka


mark my words.. he will have at least 8 tds this upcoming year.. and some rushing yards to boot.. he will be used on the randle el, ward reverse/gimick plays.

alot of people are hollering about the need for another wr to stretch the field.. speed... big wr.. whatever you guys! we have moulds.. who is a superstar... easily a top 5 wr when healthy... no team has 2 of those.. and we dont need 2.. reed will be a strong number 2 and shaw is a great number 3.. and i for one have not given up on aiken.. who just finished his first year as a 4th round rookie.

guys be patient and trust in who we have.. no one we draft this year at the wr spot is going to come in and surplant any of the guys we have there now..

we should be pounding TH and WM all game anyway.. but if we have to make some plays in the passing game, the guys we have are going to be plenty good.


Totally agree. Last year there was no time for the 40 yard pass and I didn't see a lot of crossing patterns. With a better offensive scheme and some solid blocking from the line the offence might not look too bad.

[HenryRules]

One big difference between Reed and Ward in their first 2 years ... Ward improved between his first and second year, Reed did not.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by HenryRules
One big difference between Reed and Ward in their first 2 years ... Ward improved between his first and second year, Reed did not.

RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2002 Buffalo Bills 16 2 37 509 13.8 42 2 7 1 23
2003 Buffalo Bills 16 16 58 588 10.1 26 2 5 0 33

He didn't?:dizzy:

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by The Spaz


RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2002 Buffalo Bills 16 2 37 509 13.8 42 2 7 1 23
2003 Buffalo Bills 16 16 58 588 10.1 26 2 5 0 33

He didn't?:dizzy:

If you think Reed played better last year than 2 years ago you're fooling yourself. 2002 he never dropped any balls and looked confident throughout the season. 2003 he consistently dropped balls at the beginning of the year and again at the end and at various times looked completely lost.

The reason he had more catches is because Price and Centers - 2 guys that had more catches than Reed in 2001 - were no longer around.

[The Spaz]

Wow you mean to tell me that with people gone he had to catch more balls that's a damn good analysis!:rofl:

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Wow you mean to tell me that with people gone he had to catch more balls that's a damn good analysis!:rofl:

Well considering that you think catching more balls is a sign of improvement and also realize that people will catch more balls if better receivers are removed ... how many voices do you have talking to you in your head if your posts agree with contradictory statements?

[The Spaz]

Your too much.....:lol::rofl:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by HenryRules
One big difference between Reed and Ward in their first 2 years ... Ward improved between his first and second year, Reed did not.


yeah.. it must have been hard for ward to improve between his first year and his second.. he didnt get on the field at all his rookie year.. tough assignment to get better than that.

[Halbert]

Thank goodness there are other people who think Reed will have a breakout year in 04. I was starting to think I was the only one.

To me he appears to be a prototype possession receiver, but he has outstanding RAC abilities. After a very shaky early season, he came on strong depsite playing on an offense that was just about dead in the water. This from a guy who was a dominant reciever in college, despite not being as physically gifted with speed as many other high profile draft picks.

I see no reason why he can't become one of the most effective #2 receivers in the league. The comparison to Ward is right on, imo.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Halbert
Thank goodness there are other people who think Reed will have a breakout year in 04. I was starting to think I was the only one.

To me he appears to be a prototype possession receiver, but he has outstanding RAC abilities. After a very shaky early season, he came on strong depsite playing on an offense that was just about dead in the water. This from a guy who was a dominant reciever in college, despite not being as physically gifted with speed as many other high profile draft picks.

I see no reason why he can't become one of the most effective #2 receivers in the league. The comparison to Ward is right on, imo.

hines ward is a number one.. there is no reason to think that a guy that was a projected first round pick couldnt be a number one at some point too.. people are already screaming for another wr.. it is amazing how little faith that some people have.. it is the same people that were sure eric moulds sucked after his second season..

[Ingtar33]

Yeah... your not off your rocker T, ive often thought the WR Reed reminded me most of was Ward. Basically the same player.

[eyedog]

Ok, when does Reed start playing like him. I like Reed as the #3 in the slot. They need a #2 opposite of Moulds.

[SoCalBillsFan]

It takes receivers longer to adjust than it does it a lot of other positions. Look at the numbers for most of the good ones today. Reed is doing just fine, I bet he has a great year.