Mel Kiper Jr. on Rivers today on Dan Patrick

[Earthquake Enyart]

I would have thought that Dan was talking to Tatonka, the way he was gushing on and on about Rivers. He says Rivers has moved up into the Manning / Roethesburger class and would not be surprised to the Pittsburgh take him at 11. He is very, very, high on Rivers.

It is kind of amazing on how one half of a football game moves a guy up from round 3 to the very top.

[The Spaz]

Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!:mad::madcurse:

[lordofgun]

One freaking game. Stupid.

[Mr. Miyagi]

He'll be there for us at #13. I'm not worried.

[Dozerdog]

One less team to take Sean taylor

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
I would have thought that Dan was talking to Tatonka, the way he was gushing on and on about Rivers. He says Rivers has moved up into the Manning / Roethesburger class and would not be surprised to the Pittsburgh take him at 11. He is very, very, high on Rivers.

It is kind of amazing on how one half of a football game moves a guy up from round 3 to the very top. :tongue:

i will say this..

looking back at his numbers.. he never should have been considered a 3rd round pick.. there is no reason for it.. he has size, adequate mobility, great accuracy,ect..

i think that the reason his last two bowl games have moved him up are because of this.. people said the 2 knocks on him were his throwing motion.. and his arm strength.

in these last two bowl games, people have been paying very close attention to him, and have seen what i have.. that he CAN launch the ball down the field.. he did it all game in his bowl game.. en route to throwing 5 friggin tds and 485 yards... and again in the senior bowl... throwing a 65 yard strike to henderson that was perfect, right on the money..

the other knock was his throwing motion.. now i can understand this if he was a 5'9" QB.. but the guy is 6'4".. so the hell what if he throws the ball 10 degrees lower than he should.. people laud him for his super quick release.. well his throwing motion is part of that quick release.

i think people are actually starting to look at the important things.. like the fact that he is a winner.. in 5 bowl games.. not only has he WON ALL OF THEM.. but he has actually been the MVP OF ALL OF THEM!!!.. that is what i call performance. his stats were better than eli mannings this year.. he is a good character guy who has said again and again, that while he doesnt think there is anything wrong with his throwing motion, he will work to do whatever the coaches think is best to help him be good, including changing the way he throws... he is married with a child, and has balanced that with his good grades and being a winner on the field..

i think people are just realizing that they made a mistake in the initial projections of rivers.. not that it is just one or two games that has helped him fly up the boards.

does that make sense?

[Bmax]

Well thanks for the kiper update....I guess the rivers bandwagon is getting huge.....Still he has to go thru the workouts....

And trust me he is not close to manning ...Eli has everything plus a better throwing motion.. he will be the # 1 pick......

Bmax...

At least with rivers shooting up draft boards he won't be here oh well ...better get ready for a qb in rd 2 or 3...


Go Bills

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Bmax

And trust me he is not close to manning ...Eli has everything plus a better throwing motion.. he will be the # 1 pick......

Bmax...

At least with rivers shouting up draft boards he won't be here oh well ...better get ready for a qb in rd 2 or 3...


Go Bills


care to make a wager that SD does not draft manning?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Bmax
Well thanks for the kiper update....I guess the rivers bandwagon is getting huge.....Still he has to go thru the workouts....

And trust me he is not close to manning ...Eli has everything plus a better throwing motion.. he will be the # 1 pick......

Bmax...

At least with rivers shouting up draft boards he won't be here oh well ...better get ready for a qb in rd 2 or 3...


Go Bills

Honestly I am not even that impressed with Eli Manning. I watched a bunch of his games this season and he never blew me away. I didn't notice him having a superstrong arm or great mobility either. Not saying I would take Rivers over him but just throwing that out there.

[Bmax]

sure .. what's your fancy.. I live in buffalo so what in wny do you desire ?

I think a trade is in store for the #1 pick .. no doubt that manning will be the first qb taken...

Bmax

[Dozerdog]

I think Marty will trade down 4-5 spots and get Taylor myself.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Bmax
sure .. what's your fancy.. I live in buffalo so what in wny do you desire ?

I think a trade is in store for the #1 pick .. no doubt that manning will be the first qb taken...

Bmax

I wouldn't want to trade up to get Manning. I would rather trade down. Fix our oline, and get a qb later.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Bmax
sure .. what's your fancy.. I live in buffalo so what in wny do you desire ?

I think a trade is in store for the #1 pick .. no doubt that manning will be the first qb taken...

Bmax

he may be the first qb taken.. but i am saying that san diego will not take him first overall.

[Bmax]

yeah marty and aj doesn't have the balls...Brees is done .. i would blow up the chargers and draft manning and trade brees ....Just my opinon.....


Bmax...

[Tatonka]

comments on this?


Originally posted by Tatonka
:tongue:

i will say this..

looking back at his numbers.. he never should have been considered a 3rd round pick.. there is no reason for it.. he has size, adequate mobility, great accuracy,ect..

i think that the reason his last two bowl games have moved him up are because of this.. people said the 2 knocks on him were his throwing motion.. and his arm strength.

in these last two bowl games, people have been paying very close attention to him, and have seen what i have.. that he CAN launch the ball down the field.. he did it all game in his bowl game.. en route to throwing 5 friggin tds and 485 yards... and again in the senior bowl... throwing a 65 yard strike to henderson that was perfect, right on the money..

the other knock was his throwing motion.. now i can understand this if he was a 5'9" QB.. but the guy is 6'4".. so the hell what if he throws the ball 10 degrees lower than he should.. people laud him for his super quick release.. well his throwing motion is part of that quick release.

i think people are actually starting to look at the important things.. like the fact that he is a winner.. in 5 bowl games.. not only has he WON ALL OF THEM.. but he has actually been the MVP OF ALL OF THEM!!!.. that is what i call performance. his stats were better than eli mannings this year.. he is a good character guy who has said again and again, that while he doesnt think there is anything wrong with his throwing motion, he will work to do whatever the coaches think is best to help him be good, including changing the way he throws... he is married with a child, and has balanced that with his good grades and being a winner on the field..

i think people are just realizing that they made a mistake in the initial projections of rivers.. not that it is just one or two games that has helped him fly up the boards.

does that make sense?

[ArcticWildMan]

What are you two going to wager? :snicker:

[eyedog]

You two don't even have the right qb as the best. The best qb is Ben Roeth.

[Bert102176]

like I said before on one of these subjects in here on Rivers that he would be moving up in the draft

[Ingtar33]

:hamrhed:

The combine and workout hysteria is on... where player performance and 4 years of video tape is disregarded on the basis of a single game or workout.

Well, while Rivers does a lot of things well, I’ve never been all that impressed with him. The only thing of value I saw in the senior bowl performance was he showed me a better deep ball than I thought he had... but then it could have just been a great day.

Ah well, don't mind me, I’m often a contrary thinker when it comes to most conventional wisdom and sometimes I’m wrong.

I’ll remove a bit of the clutter though.

Ben is the best QB in the draft
Manning I still can’t decide if he’s worth a 1st round pick…
No one else in this draft should go in round 1

This is how the NFL draft doesn’t often follow player talent… there will be teams like Miami, who think the man they want, will not be there when they pick next, and “reach”, while teams will react to this, and reach as well, to prevent the teams they know will likely reach from taking their guy.

[eyedog]

Ok Ing, you got the qb down. I'm still waiting for you to give me your thoughts on Antwan Odom ?

[Ingtar33]

Odem... DE Alabama...

Fairly good athlete, actually a superb athlete, who shows flashes of brilliance. He's coming out early right? (sorry I don't have anything on him in front of me) He could be a 3 down DE in the NFL, as he has the size and strength to stop the run, and the quickness to pass rush.

Overall, a good 2nd or 3rd rounder... (actually, I think in the third would be a steal, too much natural talent). I think he's a bit sloppy with his technique... and if i recall he rarely stayed in his "lane" and as a result could be had on screens, reverses, and misdirection.

[Tatonka]

ingtar... if the bills feel that rivers has first round talent, how is it wrong to pick him there?

[Ingtar33]

it isn't, i won't lie, two of the guys in our FO think he is too... and as ive said, i AM wrong smetimes.

[DraftBoy]

I hope he goes to Miami, the guy has never shown me more than 2nd round talent. Id rather take Losman in the 2nd round. I see alot of talent in him and I think he had the confidence to win us some big games down the road.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
it isn't, i won't lie, two of the guys in our FO think he is too... and as ive said, i AM wrong smetimes.

well, good to hear some think that.. are the two guys who you are referring to good scouts?


Originally posted by Winfield_26
I hope he goes to Miami, the guy has never shown me more than 2nd round talent. Id rather take Losman in the 2nd round. I see alot of talent in him and I think he had the confidence to win us some big games down the road.

man.. that is such a relative thing.. "second round talent"... your talking about a hair.. a minimal difference...

i do know that losman has shown something beside abillity.. he has shown that he is a total and complete *****.. the guy is getting rave reviews for being and ******* in interviews.. thats a guy i want representing my team..

ingtar, can you verify anything about losman and his attitude?

[eyedog]

Sometimes a little attitude isn't always a bad thing in a qb. Kelly, Marino, Elway, Fouts, Esiason. It's something in their competive makeup that makes them winners. As a qb you gotta be a ***** at times and be a leader. I'd take that instead of a Todd Collins personality who couldn't lead a field of mice.

[Dozerdog]

There is a difference-Ryan Lief was a *****, Kelly a Leader

[TigerJ]

The huddle report really bashes J. P. Losman. The talent evaluator for that website says he can tell from watching game film that he's a me guy and a coach killer. Not having seen him play, I have to wonder how he can come to that conclusion without actually having sat down and talked to the guy.

[eyedog]

I think that talent evaluator is full of s***. How could you possibly come to a conclusion like that by watching a couple of games on film. Sorry, but I need more than that.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by eyedog
I think that talent evaluator is full of s***. How could you possibly come to a conclusion like that by watching a couple of games on film. Sorry, but I need more than that.

I would agree as well but there are quite a few places who have said the same thing.

[DraftBoy]

There have also been quite a few places that have said he looked the best at the Senior Bowl workouts. His velocity is amazing on the out routes, his mechanics are nearly flawless, he can scramble when needed but isnt one to choose it over throwing the ball. His arm is one of the top 3 in the draft and he has the knack for being a kid with confidence. You guys are calling him a ***** based on a few reports from a senior bowl practices. These reports were unheard of before this or during the season had they been said over the course of the year I would have more value in them, but right now I dont see it as anymore than one persons opinion. To be honest I would love Rivers all the same but not at 13. I would rather draft Carey there then take Rivers. Hes still a few years away from being able to start in the NFL IMO. Really i dont think any of the qb's are ready to start in the NFL as of right this moment. Ignstar said it also when he said Big Ben is the only 1st round talent in this years QB class. Id say I was splitting hairs about a 2nd round talent if we were drafting in the lower half of the round (17-32) but we are taking a lottery pick almost with our QB set for next season and most likely the one after. We know we are almost guaranteed one of 2 QB's in round 2. Losman or Rivers. The Phins will take one of the 2. Personally I like Losman alot better b.c he brings more to the table. just my opinion.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Winfield_26
There have also been quite a few places that have said he looked the best at the Senior Bowl workouts. His velocity is amazing on the out routes, his mechanics are nearly flawless, he can scramble when needed but isnt one to choose it over throwing the ball. His arm is one of the top 3 in the draft and he has the knack for being a kid with confidence. You guys are calling him a ***** based on a few reports from a senior bowl practices. These reports were unheard of before this or during the season had they been said over the course of the year I would have more value in them, but right now I dont see it as anymore than one persons opinion. To be honest I would love Rivers all the same but not at 13. I would rather draft Carey there then take Rivers. Hes still a few years away from being able to start in the NFL IMO. Really i dont think any of the qb's are ready to start in the NFL as of right this moment. Ignstar said it also when he said Big Ben is the only 1st round talent in this years QB class. Id say I was splitting hairs about a 2nd round talent if we were drafting in the lower half of the round (17-32) but we are taking a lottery pick almost with our QB set for next season and most likely the one after. We know we are almost guaranteed one of 2 QB's in round 2. Losman or Rivers. The Phins will take one of the 2. Personally I like Losman alot better b.c he brings more to the table. just my opinion.


good post. that is why i was asking Ing about losman.. to see if he knew about the rumors being true.

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by lordofgun
One freaking game. Stupid.

sound familiar?just as long as we don't give up a 1st,a 4th,5 years,and $25 million.

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by Tatonka



good post. that is why i was asking Ing about losman.. to see if he knew about the rumors being true.

Im also intrested to see what Ing has to say about what the scouts think about his attitude.

[elltrain22]

It's sad that it took the Senior Bowl for people and scouts to finally give Rivers some respect. The guy deserved alot more heisman consideration, and should have been a 1st rd type qb all along. If he skyrockets all the way to 11, that just means that we might get a Udezi or Sean Taylor. Either way, it'll work out in the end.