Spikes at MLB

[Kolbiss]

Im just surious, how come Spikes doesn't play middle linebacker

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by danny4804
Im just surious, how come Spikes doesn't play middle linebacker

Because London Flether plays there!:up:

[Kolbiss]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Because London Flether plays there!:up:

I know, but he didn't in Cincinatti either.

[Kolbiss]

dont you usually want your best linebacker in the middle

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by danny4804
dont you usually want your best linebacker in the middle

Pick your poison both London and Takeo are pretty damn good.

[shadowfax]

In most defensive schemes, you want the LB who's best in coverage at teh will LB spot. Spikes is our best coverage LB.

[Kolbiss]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Pick your poison both London and Takeo are pretty damn good.


Yeah! I agree, but spikes just stands out to me as one of those special dominant players, maybe not quite Ray Lewis, but comparible. London whom I love, is not quite there in my opinion

[mypoorfriendme]

then that would mean that were would never be any pro-bowl outside linebackers because they would all be playing middle on their respective teams. traditionally, middle linebackers just clauge the holes and dont ever really have to leave the box. spikes has coverage skills and speed to play outside. kinda the difference between corner and free safety or guard and tackle

[Kolbiss]

Originally posted by mypoorfriendme
then that would mean that were would never be any pro-bowl outside linebackers because they would all be playing middle on their respective teams. traditionally, middle linebackers just clauge the holes and dont ever really have to leave the box. spikes has coverage skills and speed to play outside. kinda the difference between corner and free safety or guard and tackle

Would you play Ray Lewis on the outside then?( thanks for the input by the way)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Was Lawrence taylor a middle linebacker? or Derrick Thomas, or Derrick Brooks?

[Marvelous]

Originally posted by danny4804
dont you usually want your best linebacker in the middle
Our best LB plays middle ;):)

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by danny4804
I know, but he didn't in Cincinatti either.

actually, he did play alot of mike LB at cincy.. they lined up with 4lbs on a regular basis, and he played one of the middle spots... marvin lewis also told him that if he stayed in cincy he would move him to MLB and play him in a ray lewis roll.

i think they keep him at WLB here because we needed an upgrade over eddie robinson.. we didnt really need one over fletcher..

just my opinion.

[mchurchfie]

They should put Spikes in at middle and they should also blitz him a hell of alot more. Fletcher is a little bit overrated sometimes IMO.

[Marvelous]

Originally posted by mchurchfie
Fletcher is a little bit overrated sometimes IMO.
Explain why he is overrated.
Fletcher is a great MLB.

[mchurchfie]

Everyone gets caught up in his stats....mainly his tackles. He may be one of the leading tacklers but alot of them are downfield. He rarely makes the big play and isn't half the impact middle linebacker that Sam Cowart or Chris Speilman were back in their days. It amazes me at how many people are so quick to put him in the Very Good or Great category. He is a Good to sometimes Very Good linebacker for the mostpart. I'm not impressed with him at all.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Sippio
Explain why he is overrated.
Fletcher is a great MLB.

he has some of the worst coverage skills for a MLB in the nfl. he gets torched consistently by RBs and TEs... i like him ok.. i think he is average.. but not great by any means... but i also realize that you cant have a pro bowl LB at every position.. so dont take that as me being unhappy with fletcher..

[mchurchfie]

I agree Tatonka.:up: I think that at his salary we could afford to do a little shopping to get someone in as good, if not better, for a cheaper price if we did it right. It confonds me why so many people are so high on him. He is an undersized LB who is pretty good when overachieving but tends to disappear when he gets complacent at all.

[mchurchfie]

By the way, I am unhappy with him.

[caveboy]

I don't think MLBs or even OLBs are as effective unless they have a dominent NT or DE to draw double teams. Derrick Brooks and Spielman as mentioned had/have that. I like Pat williams, but I'd like to see Mt. Washington next to Sam Adams and see what Fletch might do.

Maybe if we let FLetcher roam more and blitz more, he would be harder to pick up on coverages.

[Ingtar33]

ah.. i was sort of browsing this thread, thinking, should i or shouldn't i comment on it... figured my main point was already stated a few times... he's a top 12 MLB maybe a bit better on a good day (top 6 or 7)...

Then T said "he has some of the worst coverage skills for a MLB in the nfl".

Sorry T, while Fletch might not be the best run stopping MLB in the league (MLB is mostly a run stopping position), the one thing you can't say about Fletch is he's a bad coverage LB. Fletch is a very good coverage MLB. Is he as good as some of the better WLBs out there? no, not at all, he'd be an average to below average WLB. However as MLBs go, he's easily a top 5 cover MLB.

You want to see a terrible pass coverage MLB? Watch Zach Thomas in the monday nighter vs. the Eagles... That might have been the worse game by a MLB in coverage ive ever seen. The fact that he regularly looks like this in pass coverage makes it all so much more amusing when he goes to Hawaii all the time.

[wbat27]

I am sorry to hear that mchurchfie but he is damn good and spikes was a probowler outside he had probowl stats inside and they were not all down field

[Bert102176]

I would like to see a 3-4 D again with T.K.O and London in the Middle and Posey and another LB outside, won't happen but I can still wish

[hintexas]

I cant belive this sounds like a thread that puts down London Fletcher. I think he is a great Middle Linebacker that has been up near the top in the team in tackles the last few seasons. I think the crime is that he asn't even considered as a back up for the Pro Bowl

[mchurchfie]

I would like to see his stats for plays for losses behind the line of scrimmage. He is a good to very good linebacker but I wouldn't be so quick to annoint him "Great" as so many people on here do. He is NOT consistently a bigtime playmaker....he is NOT in the Shane Conlan, Sam Cowart, Chris Speilman category:idunno:

[Kolbiss]

I like fletcher, i would just love to see spikes in the middle

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm glad people are sticking up for Fletcher in here! I love the guy. I love Spikes too.

[HenryRules]

I think Fletch is a lot like Winfield. He is a solid guy, but doesn't make the game-breaking plays to put him at the top of his position. Because he's a hard worker and home town player, he tends to get overrated by his team's fans, but if he were in most other cities, you probably wouldn't hear too much about him unless his team goes to the Super Bowl.

[The Spaz]

Which he did with the Rams.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Which he did with the Rams.

I know ... that's why I think he was rather hyped before we got him.

[NorthernVA BIllsfan]

Agreed, Spikes is a much better OLB, if we weren't such woosies in letting him blitz the QB, we could use him nore effectively more often, ho well, new coaching staff so we'll see. Also, Fletcher is a great ILB, this guy is all over the field, he would be even better if we had a better DL in front of him.

[helmetguy]

Big picture: Do Spikes and Fletcher do their jobs? Even if they're not the best, they're pretty damned good at doing what is asked of them, aren't they? I guess a guy is only great when he puts the Super Bowl ring on, regardless if he had anything to do with it or not.

[HenryRules]

I didn't say that Fletch was great because he won a ring ... I said that was the only reason he got attention.

Ok ... grabbed the closest definition of great that I could find:

Superior; admirable; commanding; -- applied to thoughts, actions, and feelings

So, nope ... just doing your job does not make you great. You have to be superior, admirable or commanding. Fletch is an above average starting MLB (in a league of 32, being 8-12 is above average) and Spikes can probably be considered great.

[mchurchfie]

:up: I agree....Fletcher is overhyped. He couldn't hold a candle to Sam Cowart's ass before he suffered that Achilles injury. Sam would make you sit up and go "Whoa!" more than a few times in a game. The middlebacker is supposed to be the playmaker of the D...I'd like to see a few more solos behind the line of scrimmage or maybe read a play and break it up before it developes. Most of Fletcher's tackles come after the fact and usually well beyond the line of scrimmage. Never have been impressed with him too often.:cynic:

[mchurchfie]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Big picture: Do Spikes and Fletcher do their jobs? Even if they're not the best, they're pretty damned good at doing what is asked of them, aren't they? I guess a guy is only great when he puts the Super Bowl ring on, regardless if he had anything to do with it or not.
For the money they are being paid, they should be close to the best if not the best. Mediocre play is unacceptable. Spikes is doing his job, Fletcher is a disappointment.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I didn't say that Fletch was great because he won a ring ... I said that was the only reason he got attention.

Ok ... grabbed the closest definition of great that I could find:

Superior; admirable; commanding; -- applied to thoughts, actions, and feelings

So, nope ... just doing your job does not make you great. You have to be superior, admirable or commanding. Fletch is an above average starting MLB (in a league of 32, being 8-12 is above average) and Spikes can probably be considered great.

What I meant was, there is a tendency, at times, for some to measure greatness by the number of Super Bowl rings a guy wears. I did not mean that anyone was calling Fletcher great, simply because he wears a SB ring. I do think credit should be given where credit is due, however. With Fletch and Spikes, they are but two elements of a defense that kept us in a lot of games this past season. Perhaps if we would have been more competitive after Week 2, more Bills may have been considered for the Pro Bowl, too. Maybe not Fletch, per se. But when a team is consistently winning, more individual accolades tend to follow.

I do wonder what yardstick we have to use in order to judge the quality of our individual talent, though. Maybe Fletch isn't Ray Lewis, but so what? Does he produce? You bet! Plus, he does provide solid veteran leadership on the field. What I am saying is that, let's worry about ubgrading the positions that really need upgrading, like Center, Guard, Defensive End, FS, and covet those individuals who are significant upgrades over what we have now, rather than criticize or look at the few negatives of the guys who are getting the job done.

[Brack733]

Ultimately Fletcher is a limited player because of his size. That is his only downside, but it is a substantial one. It hurts him in coverage, not because he isn't where he is supposed to be, its just that the man he's guarding is always several inches taller. A 6'5 tight end would be like 7 inches taller than him at least. It also makes him unable to break free of lineman at all.
he's a great tackler. He just has limitations on how good he can be like many of the Bills, ie Bledsoe- complete immobility, and Winfield- height

[The_Philster]

why are we worrying about his height difference with a TE? It's rare that a MLB covers the TE...usually only when the SLB blitzes. It's usually the responsibility of the SLB or the SS to cover the TE. The MLB's coverage responsibility in most schemes is the FB or RB.

[mchurchfie]

Originally posted by helmetguy
What I am saying is that, let's worry about ubgrading the positions that really need upgrading, like Center, Guard, Defensive End, FS, and covet those individuals who are significant upgrades over what we have now, rather than criticize or look at the few negatives of the guys who are getting the job done.
Good point helmet.:up:

[TedMock]

I think Fletcher's largely underrated. He's not the run stuffer that Conlon and Speilman were but he's a hell of a lot better in pass coverage and much faster. Cowart was just an amazing overall talent before the injury. He's solid again but not quite what he was. Although, he may be back in full form this year. Who knows?

[mchurchfie]

I would like to see Fletcher in a 3-4.

[LtBillsFan66]

Where has anyone seen Fletcher overhyped?

What everyone needs to realize that a team can't have a superstar at every single position. And in most of your eyes, if the player isn't a super star, he sucks.

Damn man. It's making me sick.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by billsfanone
Where has anyone seen Fletcher overhyped?

What everyone needs to realize that a team can't have a superstar at every single position. And in most of your eyes, if the player isn't a super star, he sucks.

Damn man. It's making me sick.

With some, even a superstar at every position wouldn't be enough. Some people are never happy!



Originally posted by mchurchfie
I would like to see Fletcher in a 3-4.

I always liked the 3-4, personally. My preference, though is ANYTHING THAT WORKS! i'm not fussy!

[mchurchfie]

Originally posted by billsfanone
Where has anyone seen Fletcher overhyped?

What everyone needs to realize that a team can't have a superstar at every single position. And in most of your eyes, if the player isn't a super star, he sucks.

Damn man. It's making me sick.

His level of play isn't even to his level of pay.....period. He has been overhyped on this board ever since we got him just by the way he is blindly defended 24/7 by everyone. The first and second year we all said that he just needs to get bigger Dlinemen in front of him so that he can roam unimpeded more. Last year we put about 700lbs+ of beef in front of him and he still couldn't get off his blocks half of the time...usually a TE. Maybe he needs to make more noise out there or do some backflips to get my attention because he sure doesn't jump out at me as nothing more than an average to sometimes good linebacker.:idunno:

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by helmetguy


With some, even a superstar at every position wouldn't be enough. Some people are never happy!


If you're having a discussion about whether someone is good or great, in order to argue he is good, you're obviously going to have to bring up some shortcomings. Just because you don't think that someone is perfect doesn't mean that you don't think they're a good enough player.