Why not Just release Bledsoe?

[ScottLawrence]

He is on the decline, he cant MOVE around at all, takes too many sacks and never gets rid of the ball......

There would be NO cap hit if he was released, so why not just release him?

[BillsFever]

Are you crazy? You must be into fantasy football.

It's not his fault his team can't win him games.

[elltrain22]

Hey ScottLaw, you would be a great NBA gm seeing how you want to get rid of someone so quickley. Lets give him another shot, with a better line, and a good coach, and if he still *****s up, then your arguement is better waranted.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
why not just release him?

Because it makes too much sense?

Because he is a good father?

:idunno:

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by elltrain22
Hey ScottLaw, you would be a great NBA gm seeing how you want to get rid of someone so quickley. Lets give him another shot, with a better line, and a good coach, and if he still *****s up, then your arguement is better waranted.

Brady took that same line in New England and became a star from it. He had a great coach in Bill Belichek. He went 5-14 under him. They haven't lost 14 games total since they dumped his ass.

[BillsFever]

Oh yeah, and New England fans said the same thing for the last 6 years. Just give him a line, a good coach, ect.. We all know how that turned out.

There isn't anyone that can save Bledsoe except Bledsoe himself.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by The Natrix
Because it makes too much sense?

Because he is a good father?

:idunno:

My dad was a good father. He should try out for the Bills too :up:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by elltrain22
Lets give him another shot, with a better line, and a good coach, and if he still *****s up, then your arguement is better waranted.

so being horrible for 2 years hasnt been enough to convince you huh? he had a good 6 games in 2002.. then it has been downhill since then.. the offense has to be on of the worst in history over the last 26 games.. and bledsoe is the center of all the problems.

i just dont see how everyone can just keep saying.. give him another chance.. when he gets cut for being horrible after this year and cost the bills another years of being a non playoff, average team, some other team will pick him up and say.. hey.. lets give him another chance.. maybe its not his fault he cant throw to the outlet receiver.. maybe it is not his fault he holds the ball too long.. maybe it is not his fault that he cant win big games and turns the ball over like he is handing out candy to kids on halloween.

[ScottLawrence]

Exactly Tatonka,

It makes too much sense.... NO CAP HIT, so we would save ourselves a lot of cap money.

I think Donahoes too stubborn to release him because he knows he wasted a first round pick on him.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Exactly Tatonka,

It makes too much sense.... NO CAP HIT, so we would save ourselves a lot of cap money.

I think Donahoes too stubborn to release him because he knows he wasted a first round pick on him.

Look, I think TD needs to go as much as anyone ... but when people make comments like that, you entirely take away any credibility people from our side have.

Donahoe drafted Kelsay after taking Denney.

After choosing Moulds over Washington and Wiley, Donahoe essentially did the opposite in choosing Spikes and Adams over Price.

After cutting/injury-settlement-thing with Christie, TD went through kickers like it was going out of style.

After saying that Flutie was the one that the team should be built around, he cut him and went with Johnson.

There are many more examples as well

The guy has no problems admitting he was wrong and trying to correct his mistakes.

[The Natrix]

I say bring in Billy Volek at a fraction of Bledsoes price tag. I fail to see how he could be any worse than Bledsoe. The new system argument doesn't work against Volek because it's going to be a new system for Bledsoe too.

Draft Rivers, Losman or Henson, keep Brown, and I will be very optimistic about the QB position.

[zone]

Originally posted by HenryRules
Look, I think TD needs to go as much as anyone ... but when people make comments like that, you entirely take away any credibility people from our side have.

Donahoe drafted Kelsay after taking Denney.

After choosing Moulds over Washington and Wiley, Donahoe essentially did the opposite in choosing Spikes and Adams over Price.

After cutting/injury-settlement-thing with Christie, TD went through kickers like it was going out of style.

After saying that Flutie was the one that the team should be built around, he cut him and went with Johnson.

The guy has no problems admitting he was wrong and trying to correct his mistakes.

Don't you know everyone around here has GM,QB and overal NFL experience? trust me they know what there talking about. They have seen this all to much in the buisness.

[ScottLawrence]

Then Henry,

Why would Donahoe keep Bledsoe?
You made some good points about Denney and Kelsay but the Price trade actually made SENSE, we didn't need TWO number 1 recievers so he traded him which is logic.

This is even more logical, Bledsoe hasn't been the same since week 7 of the 2002 season..... that tells me he is starting to decline.

I would release him now WITH NO CAP HIT and try and sign a veteran QB like Brunell or try and trade for Ramsey.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by zone


Don't you know everyone around here has GM,QB and overal NFL experience? trust me they know what there talking about. They have seen this all to much in the buisness.

Trust me ... your opinions don't help me either.

You don't need to be better at someone's job in order to criticize them. Whether or not I can be a better president or GM than TD doesn't affect my ability to criticize him. Hell, if the only criteria for making the Bills in any capacity was to do a better job than me at the position, they'd be 0-16, sell about 40 000 seats, but all of their computer systems would be damned amazing.

You do not need to do better than someone in order to evaluate their performance.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Then Henry,

Why would Donahoe keep Bledsoe?
You made some good points about Denney and Kelsay but the Price trade actually made SENSE, we didn't need TWO number 1 recievers so he traded him which is logic.

This is even more logical, Bledsoe hasn't been the same since week 7 of the 2002 season..... that tells me he is starting to decline.

I would release him now WITH NO CAP HIT and try and sign a veteran QB like Brunell or try and trade for Ramsey.

Donahoe is probably keeping him because he and his fellow Bills front-office people feel that Bledsoe has talent.

He's definitely not keeping him out of stubbornness.

[Bert102176]

so if we cut him there is no cap hit?

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Bert102176
so if we cut him there is no cap hit?

Correct - NE took the full signing bonus hit when they traded him to us (as is the case with almost all trades - I believe that if you sign and trade someone on the exact same day and they're a RFA, then you don't take the signing bonus hit).

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by Bert102176
so if we cut him there is no cap hit?

I know, it sounds to good to be true.

TD will never do it though because it makes way too much sense.

[ScottLawrence]

Yes,

Your probably right but that could be part of the reason.....

when we interviewed for our head coaching job, how many coaches do you think said they wouldn't keep Bledsoe?

I gurantee all of them except Mularky.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Yes,

Your probably right but that could be part of the reason.....

when we interviewed for our head coaching job, how many coaches do you think said they wouldn't keep Bledsoe?

I gurantee all of them except Mularky.

I doubt that ... but we'll never know.

To guarantee it, you have to have a lot better connections than I do.

[ScottLawrence]

Well, I cant gurantee it..... but there were many rumors going around that Fassel didn't get the job because he didn't want to keep Bledsoe and Donahoe apparently did.


BUT WHY?

[zone]

Originally posted by HenryRules
Trust me ... your opinions don't help me either.

You don't need to be better at someone's job in order to criticize them. Whether or not I can be a better president or GM than TD doesn't affect my ability to criticize him. Hell, if the only criteria for making the Bills in any capacity was to do a better job than me at the position, they'd be 0-16, sell about 40 000 seats, but all of their computer systems would be damned amazing.

You do not need to do better than someone in order to evaluate their performance.

Really so someone who has never touched a PC has the ability to effectively evaluate your performance? Are you being serious?

[Iehoshua]

Snip snip! Cut Bledsoe! I concur!

[ScottLawrence]

LOL,

I bet almost 75% of all Bills fans want to cut Bledsoe,

But DONAHOE does not.... Donahoe should get the AXE if Bledsoe fails this year.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Well, I cant gurantee it..... but there were many rumors going around that Fassel didn't get the job because he didn't want to keep Bledsoe and Donahoe apparently did.


BUT WHY?

Will you only stop asking that "why" question if I agree with you and say TD is doing it out of stubbornness, even though I've shown he has no problems admitting his mistakes?

So now that 1 candidate didn't want to keep Bledsoe, that means that all candidates didn't want to keep Bledsoe?

Fassel didn't exactly get a ton of offers from the rest of the league, so to say that the only reason he didn't get the job is because he didn't want Bledsoe is an incredibly simplistic explanation - and considering that you weren't at the interviews, it's probably not even close to correct.

Again, the reason the Bills are keeping Bledsoe is probably because the talent evaluators think that he has the ability to do well.

If that's not a satisfactory answer, then tough.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by zone


Really so someone who has never touched a PC has the ability to effectively evaluate your performance? Are you being serious?

it is completely different. It is kind of sad that I have to explain this to you.

People who criticize Bledsoe watch a lot of Football. Therefore they know a thing or two about football.

Someone who has never touched a PC obviously knows nothing about HenryRules' job.

Is that really hard to understand?

It is people like you, with these kind of flawed arguments that perpetuates my declining confidence in Bledsoe

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by zone


Really so someone who has never touched a PC has the ability to effectively evaluate your performance? Are you being serious?

Not never touched a PC, but they don't necessarily have to have experience designing software.

Many people that never touched a PC could tell you that (at the end) Wordperfect was not as good a product as Word. Did they have to be able to make a better word processor?

Do I have to be a good film editor to know when the editing is good or bad?

No.

[Jan Reimers]

Here's a thought. Who the Hell is going to play QB for us this coming season if we cut Bledsoe? A totally untested rookie, who might as easily turn out to be Ryan Leaf as Peyton Manning? Drew Henson, the failed baseball player? Billy Volek who, like Rob Johnson, has had one good start?

Think, guys. You don't cut a player until you're sure you have somebody better.

[zone]

Originally posted by The Natrix
it is completely different. It is kind of sad that I have to explain this to you.

People who criticize Bledsoe watch a lot of Football. Therefore they know a thing or two about football.

Someone who has never touched a PC obviously knows nothing about HenryRules' job.

Is that really hard to understand?

It is people like you, with these kind of flawed arguments that perpetuates my declining confidence in Bledsoe

It’s sad I have to explain this to you.

So people who watch a lot of football know how to effectively evaluate the talent of a NFL QB.

So now all of the sudden watching a lot of something makes you an expert on the inside workings.

I watch a lot of movies I should know how to be a good actor.

I watch races on TV. I bet I could jump right behind the wheel of a car and race someone.

I play tons of video games, so I should know the intricate programming that goes into making them.

I boot up my computer everyday and point and click on my user friend GUI so I should know how it runs.

It’s an absolute ridiculous notion.

Just because you watch football, does not give you the slightest frame of reference of what goes on behind the scene to see that finished product on Sunday. You have no idea on what drills they run, you have no clue on who told them to do what, you don’t know what route a receiver is told to run on a certain play, you don’t know what kind of f’n energy bar the lineman ate before the game. You know NOTHING!

My advice to you is don’t believe everything you see on TV.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by zone


I watch a lot of movies I should know how to be a good actor.



No, but you should be able to know a good actor from a bad one.




I watch races on TV. I bet I could jump right behind the wheel of a car and race someone.



No, but you should be able to determine if one driver is better than another.




I play tons of video games, so I should know the intricate programming that goes into making them.



No, but you should be able to determine if one was done well or poorly.




I boot up my computer everyday and point and click on my user friend GUI so I should know how it runs.



No, but you should be able to tell if the GUI is as user-friendly as that of another application.


By the way ... if you are playing video games, watching moves, or using a computer application - you are already admitting that you have the ability to evaluate that product. If you can't determine whether or not you enjoy one video game over another - then why would you choose to play one game over the other. If you can't evaluate an actor's on-screen performance, then why watch one film versus another, etc.

[zone]

Comparing and contrasting is one thing, calling a 4 time pro bowler a scrub tells me you have some kind of expertise in this area in order to make a better evaluation than his NFL co-workers.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by zone
Comparing and contrasting is one thing, calling a 4 time pro bowler a scrub tells me you have some kind of expertise in this area in order to make a better evaluation than his NFL co-workers.

Other than comparing and contrasting, what is evaluating?

Oh, and by the way, the pro bowl does not take into account a player's salary - so it can be used partially, but not completely, to determine whether or not someone is worth keeping on a team at a given cap cost.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Jan Reimers
Here's a thought. Who the Hell is going to play QB for us this coming season if we cut Bledsoe? A totally untested rookie, who might as easily turn out to be Ryan Leaf as Peyton Manning? Drew Henson, the failed baseball player? Billy Volek who, like Rob Johnson, has had one good start?

Think, guys. You don't cut a player until you're sure you have somebody better.

a rookie qb could put up the 11 tds and 24 turnovers that bledsoe had last year.

[doug45]

Originally posted by elltrain22
Hey ScottLaw, you would be a great NBA gm seeing how you want to get rid of someone so quickley. Lets give him another shot, with a better line, and a good coach, and if he still *****s up, then your arguement is better waranted.



Isn't this what we all said LAST YEAR???

[doug45]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
LOL,

I bet almost 75% of all Bills fans want to cut Bledsoe,

But DONAHOE does not.... Donahoe should get the AXE if Bledsoe fails this year.


:up:

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Jan Reimers
Here's a thought. Who the Hell is going to play QB for us this coming season if we cut Bledsoe? A totally untested rookie, who might as easily turn out to be Ryan Leaf as Peyton Manning? Drew Henson, the failed baseball player? Billy Volek who, like Rob Johnson, has had one good start?

Think, guys. You don't cut a player until you're sure you have somebody better.

Excellent post
Originally posted by Tatonka
a rookie qb could put up the 11 tds and 24 turnovers that bledsoe had last year.

I'll personally be interested to see how Drew will due with a QB coach and an offensive coordinator who doesn't throw 90% of the time on 3rd and short

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Excellent post

I'll personally be interested to see how Drew will due with a QB coach and an offensive coordinator who doesn't throw 90% of the time on 3rd and short

well, i guess i have to be interested to see what he is gonna do.. but if i had my way.. we would just go with a rookie.. because at least we would know that if nothing else, it couldnt be worse than last year.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Tatonka
well, i guess i have to be interested to see what he is gonna do.. but if i had my way.. we would just go with a rookie.. because at least we would know that if nothing else, it couldnt be worse than last year.

True that. I'm just trying to have a little confidence in the new coaching staff, myself. Heck, the fact that Drew has a QB coach in 2004 is an improvement. I just hope Wyche can help him get back his game.

[ScottLawrence]

I would do exactly what the Ravens did last year..... Draft a Rookie Quarterback, run Travis Henry and McGahee almost 70% of the time and play good solid defense.

It makes plenty of sense.

[Jeff1220]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
I would do exactly what the Ravens did last year..... Draft a Rookie Quarterback, run Travis Henry and McGahee almost 70% of the time and play good solid defense.

It makes plenty of sense.

It's a good notion, but the Ravens didn't have real success last year until that Rookie was benched and Wright had some success connecting with Robinson and Heap. Most rooks won't last out the season AND make the playoffs.

[BillsMan80]

Originally posted by zone


It’s sad I have to explain this to you.

So people who watch a lot of football know how to effectively evaluate the talent of a NFL QB.

So now all of the sudden watching a lot of something makes you an expert on the inside workings.

I watch a lot of movies I should know how to be a good actor.

I watch races on TV. I bet I could jump right behind the wheel of a car and race someone.

I play tons of video games, so I should know the intricate programming that goes into making them.

I boot up my computer everyday and point and click on my user friend GUI so I should know how it runs.

It’s an absolute ridiculous notion.

Just because you watch football, does not give you the slightest frame of reference of what goes on behind the scene to see that finished product on Sunday. You have no idea on what drills they run, you have no clue on who told them to do what, you don’t know what route a receiver is told to run on a certain play, you don’t know what kind of f’n energy bar the lineman ate before the game. You know NOTHING!

My advice to you is don’t believe everything you see on TV.

Well, we certainly have the ability to judge what we see on TV. If I am at the track, watching a race that I bet on, and Shaun Bridgmohan has the best horse in the race, and he tries to go through a hole on the rail that isn't there, I can't state that it is a bad ride which is obvious? If I am there, and watch Funny Cide lose to Medaglia D'Oro, aren't I qualified to say Medaglia D'Oro is the better horse? Yet, people who adore Funny Cide will say to give him a break because he's younger, and he was coming off of a tough season. Let's be honest here, we are qualified to judge from what we see. From what we saw last year, Bledsoe stinks. There is no way around it. Even Secretariat had some off races, but the difference is that Secretariat came back with a performance of a winner and champion. And Bledsoe came through with dud after dud after dud.

[Throne Logic]

Originally posted by HenryRules


Look, I think TD needs to go as much as anyone ... but when people make comments like that, you entirely take away any credibility people from our side have.

Donahoe drafted Kelsay after taking Denney.

After choosing Moulds over Washington and Wiley, Donahoe essentially did the opposite in choosing Spikes and Adams over Price.

After cutting/injury-settlement-thing with Christie, TD went through kickers like it was going out of style.

After saying that Flutie was the one that the team should be built around, he cut him and went with Johnson.

There are many more examples as well

The guy has no problems admitting he was wrong and trying to correct his mistakes.

What does taking Kelsay over Denney have to do with anything? We won't know if this is a bad move until this coming season.

He chose Moulds. For the next two years, Moulds shined and Wiley and Washington were pretty much injured. He had to choose, so he went with Moulds. I'd say Moulds has made a larger impact on Buffalo than Wiley has with San Diego or Washington did with Chicago.

Look how well Christie and Flutie have been doing.

Man, I'm sorry, but I just disagree with everything you've said here. My apologies if I seem harsh, but I just disagree.

I don't think TD should be fired at this point. For what? He's accomplished his primary objective and fixed the salary cap issue. I think people forget just how deep we were. The team he's assembled is fairly strong. Are you suggesting his mistake was trusting his head coach to select his own staff and then backing his decision? Gregg dug his own grave by choosing to let Gilbride run the Offense into the ground (or not run . . .). Do you really think it would have gone over well if the GM dictated to the coach what he should and shouldn't do? Take a look at the Raiders, if you'd like to see how this goes.

No one is perfect. TD hasn't been perfect. No GM is. Who's the last GM to draft all Pro-Bowlers? I like the majority of the current team. A few more tweaks and I think they're playoff bound.

As far as Bledsoe. Why cut him now? Wait a bit. They've got until June 1st, don't they? Look at all the options and make an educated decision. Why be hasty? They've already shown that they are looking at alternatives.

[Buffatexas]

I dont think you cut bledsoe. All I hear is Brady this and Brady that and who out of the Smokers, Rivers', Hensons wil be the next Brady. Remember this, Brady sat and watched and learned from Bledsoe. I feel if it was not for Bledsoe, brady could very well be the second coming of billy joe hobert, TD knows this, he knows if we draft a qb, he has to learn from someone. As a Bills fan, I want this kid learning under Bledsoe, not learning via Van Pelt teaching him from the sidelines. Our window of opportunity is not closing anytime soon with possibly the exception of the receiving corps getting to be the oldest unit out there. If I am TD, I am drafting a QB and a WR to learn from Bledsoe and Moulds, I am going to try to get DL/OL help in FA and the draft.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If he is cut who is the QB?

Tell me that first.

Don't cut him just to do it.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by Buffatexas
Brady sat and watched and learned from Bledsoe. I feel if it was not for Bledsoe, brady could very well be the second coming of billy joe hobert


You can't be serious. If Bledsoe taught Brady everything he knows, then it must've went in one ear and out the other for Brady.

I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to read a defense. I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to make quick decisions. I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to avoid a pass rush. I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to manage a game. I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to limit turnovers. I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to win a big game. I don't think Bledsoe taught Brady how to stay calm and win a big game on the road.

Why I don't think Bledsoe helped Brady in any of them areas is because Bledsoe can't produce in any of them areas and Brady can.

If Brady learned from Bledsoe, then I guess he taught him how to get sacked, how to fumble, how to throw the ball away on 4th down, how to stand in one place and lock on one receiver till he gets sacked, how to throw interceptions, and how to crumble against good teams on the road.

Brady must be thrilled he learned so much from Bledsoe.

[BillsMan80]

The reason why we feel we should cut Bledsoe despite not having a replacement yet, is because even a rookie or medium salaried veteran could put out the same performance or better than Bledsoe for a fraction of the price.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by BillsMan80
The reason why we feel we should cut Bledsoe despite not having a replacement yet, is because even a rookie or medium salaried veteran could put out the same performance or better than Bledsoe for a fraction of the price.

Any QB could've given us 11 TD's and 24 TO's last year :up:

[BillsMan80]

Hell, I could have done that. Half of his TDs were screen passes or under 10 yard throws I am sure.

[pats-were-right]

Oh yeah, and New England fans said the same thing for the last 6 years. Just give him a line, a good coach, ect.

Yeah we did

Some really good OC's (Kennan, Zampese) lost their jobs because of that guy, and a merely mediocre NFL head coach (Pete Carroll) is viewed in history as a pathetic failure of an NFL head coach because of him. Guess it worked out ok for us in the end.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by pats-were-right
Yeah we did

Some really good OC's (Kennan, Zampese) lost their jobs because of that guy, and a merely mediocre NFL head coach (Pete Carroll) is viewed in history as a pathetic failure of an NFL head coach because of him. Guess it worked out ok for us in the end.


Christ, how many different OC's has this guy had in his career? His whole career has been based on trying to find the guy who can turn Bledsoe into QB they wanted him to be when he was drafted #1.

[TigerJ]

Someone has probably said this during the course of the thread, but I'm too impatient to go back through and read everything. Obviously, the Bills brass thinks Bledsoe may have enough left to try and rehab. I have no idea whether they're right or not, and neither does anyone else on the board. All we have are opinions and ideas. Either the Bills will have the last laugh or in the eyes of fans they will be in deep doo doo. We'll all be saying, I told you so," and demanding the head of Tom Donahoe on a platter. Such is life in the NFL.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by BillsMan80
Well, we certainly have the ability to judge what we see on TV. If I am at the track, watching a race that I bet on, and Shaun Bridgmohan has the best horse in the race, and he tries to go through a hole on the rail that isn't there, I can't state that it is a bad ride which is obvious? If I am there, and watch Funny Cide lose to Medaglia D'Oro, aren't I qualified to say Medaglia D'Oro is the better horse? Yet, people who adore Funny Cide will say to give him a break because he's younger, and he was coming off of a tough season. Let's be honest here, we are qualified to judge from what we see. From what we saw last year, Bledsoe stinks. There is no way around it. Even Secretariat had some off races, but the difference is that Secretariat came back with a performance of a winner and champion. And Bledsoe came through with dud after dud after dud.


i just watched seabiscuit this weekend.. we need a qb like that horse. :D

[Dozerdog]

The biggest reason he has not been cut yet is simple-

Until they have a proven replacement Bledsoe isn't going anywhere. Brown and AVP are far from proven, a rookie won't be considered proven, and unless Brunell or some other experienced starter walks through the door- then you won't see Drew gone.

You don't fire somebody until you get a replacement. Look at the Bills coaches that were under contract after GW was canned. Until a replacement was named the Bills stood pat. But a lot of impatient people aroiund here got there britches in a bunch because KG wasn't immediatly run off.

Can you imagine of the Red Sox traded Nomar Garciappara in anticipation of getting A-Rod and it never materialized?

The FA period doesn't start for a month. So unless the Bills want to piss away a draft pick on Brunell in the next 2 weeks- Bledsoe isn't going anywhere.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Throne Logic


What does taking Kelsay over Denney have to do with anything? We won't know if this is a bad move until this coming season.

He chose Moulds. For the next two years, Moulds shined and Wiley and Washington were pretty much injured. He had to choose, so he went with Moulds. I'd say Moulds has made a larger impact on Buffalo than Wiley has with San Diego or Washington did with Chicago.

Look how well Christie and Flutie have been doing.

Man, I'm sorry, but I just disagree with everything you've said here. My apologies if I seem harsh, but I just disagree.

I don't think TD should be fired at this point. For what? He's accomplished his primary objective and fixed the salary cap issue. I think people forget just how deep we were. The team he's assembled is fairly strong. Are you suggesting his mistake was trusting his head coach to select his own staff and then backing his decision? Gregg dug his own grave by choosing to let Gilbride run the Offense into the ground (or not run . . .). Do you really think it would have gone over well if the GM dictated to the coach what he should and shouldn't do? Take a look at the Raiders, if you'd like to see how this goes.

No one is perfect. TD hasn't been perfect. No GM is. Who's the last GM to draft all Pro-Bowlers? I like the majority of the current team. A few more tweaks and I think they're playoff bound.

As far as Bledsoe. Why cut him now? Wait a bit. They've got until June 1st, don't they? Look at all the options and make an educated decision. Why be hasty? They've already shown that they are looking at alternatives.

Did you even read my post or were you just looking for a chance to say that TD is great?

I was discussing whether or not TD was stubborn and was trying to bring up examples where he showed a lack of stubornness. I have had enough arguments about Donahoe's performance and whether or not he should be retained beyond next season that I am now bored with them and will not be baited into them. However, were I to get into one of those debates, the points I listed would not be included right off the bat. Please, try and stay with the discussion and take things in context ... don't just read a subsection and assume you know what the person is talking about.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by pats-were-right
Yeah we did

Some really good OC's (Kennan, Zampese) lost their jobs because of that guy, and a merely mediocre NFL head coach (Pete Carroll) is viewed in history as a pathetic failure of an NFL head coach because of him. Guess it worked out ok for us in the end.

Pete Carrol was less than stellar with the Jets as well.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Dozerdog

The FA period doesn't start for a month. So unless the Bills want to piss away a draft pick on Brunell in the next 2 weeks- Bledsoe isn't going anywhere.

This is the biggest reason to not cut Bledsoe now ... it serves us no advantage versus keeping him and cutting him a few months from now - except cutting him now may end up leaving us with Brown and AVP as starters.

Let the offseason play out before complaining that something hasn't been done.

[ScottLawrence]

Many people already have a solution!

DRAFT A QUARTERBACK! We got Wyche who would work with him and we got Clements who also did pretty good things with Maddox and Stewart.

It makes too much sense..... Dump Bledsoe and get A LOT more cap room, use some of the cap on a big time Defensive end(Kearse, Ogunleye). Resign Antoine Winfield, get some quality lineman in here. Either try and trade for Henson, or Draft Rivers or Losman with the 13th pick.

I could be way wrong, Bledsoe could go out and have a great year but I really think it makes more sense to just dump him now.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence

I could be way wrong, Bledsoe could go out and have a great year but I really think it makes more sense to just dump him now.

What do we gain by dumping him now versus dumping him 2 months from now?

[ScottLawrence]

True, I mean dumping him this offseason.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Many people already have a solution!

DRAFT A QUARTERBACK! We got Wyche who would work with him and we got Clements who also did pretty good things with Maddox and Stewart.

It makes too much sense..... Dump Bledsoe and get A LOT more cap room, use some of the cap on a big time Defensive end(Kearse, Ogunleye). Resign Antoine Winfield, get some quality lineman in here. Either try and trade for Henson, or Draft Rivers or Losman with the 13th pick.

I could be way wrong, Bledsoe could go out and have a great year but I really think it makes more sense to just dump him now.

Even the best rookies take a couple of years to develop. Rosters have very short shelf lifes. The defense is ready NOW. The RBs are ready NOW. WRs are good enough. With McNally, the OL should be very close to servicable if not semi-decent with an addition or two.

So, we going to waste that waiting for a Smoker?Loseman?Rivers?Henson? Even blowing extra picks in one of the deepest drafts in a decade to move up to get Big Ben or Eli will cost us a few seasons to develop them. By the time they are up to speed (IF THEY GET UP TO SPEED- HISTORY TELLS US IT's 50-50) then you are going to habve to replace Big Pat, Sam Adams, and maybe Spikes, Clements, Fletcher and so on.

[The_Philster]

:bf1: Great post, Dozer. The pieces are in place now for the most part. Drew doesn't have to be Brett Favre..just has to play caretaker with maybe a game or two during the season when he's a difference maker. It worked for Dilfer :idunno:

[ScottLawrence]

Well Dozer,

Im pretty sure a rookie can do better then 11 TD's.

[BillsFever]

I can see not getting rid of a player till you have a proven player you can bring in. The bad thing is Bledsoe has had 11 years in the league and he's not even proven. If you never heard who Drew Bledsoe was you would think he is 23, not 32.

The only thing that Bledsoe has proved is he turns the ball over alot, seems to have no passion for the game, and has only won 9 games on the road against winning teams in his career.

[The_Philster]

with an offensive coordinator who has a clue what he's doing, a QB coach, and the talent we have at the skill positions, over 11 TDs is easy for pretty much anyone to achieve.
Out of those 3 things, we had only one in 2003

[BillsFever]

If Drew Bledsoe was still on the Pats(or a different team) and had stunk the place up for the 5.5 of his last 6 years EVERYONE here would consider him a scrub. Because he is on the Bills there are still a minority who thinks he has the "potential" to be good, and tries to think of anything that can weed the blame from his shoulders.

[The_Philster]

Who's trying to take away blame? :idunno:The only ones deflecting blame from anyone are the ones blaming him for everything short of the Holocaust.
Every play in football depends on a number of players doing their jobs right. Yet the QB is the one at fault when the team loses all the time? The QB is at fault for every interception? If it's all on the QB, let's just re-design the game so it's QB vs QB. Get rid of the WRs, the O-line, the coaches, the RBs, the defense. From the looks of things, some people have seemed to do just that.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Who's trying to take away blame? :idunno:The only ones deflecting blame from anyone are the ones blaming him for everything short of the Holocaust.
Every play in football depends on a number of players doing their jobs right. Yet the QB is the one at fault when the team loses all the time? The QB is at fault for every interception? If it's all on the QB, let's just re-design the game so it's QB vs QB. Get rid of the WRs, the O-line, the coaches, the RBs, the defense. From the looks of things, some people have seemed to do just that.

Stop it your taking away blame from Bledsoe specifically.:snicker:

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Stop it your taking away blame from Bledsoe specifically.:snicker:

:lol:

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Well Dozer,

Im pretty sure a rookie can do better then 11 TD's.

If you can find a QB that fits the Salcap then go for it. But I'll wonder where all the support for the QB will be if we go 6-10, 8-8 again because our rookie QB made the same rookie mistakes that every other rookie will do.

I'm all for drafting one(we need a QB of the future)- don't get me wrong- heck- Let's get 2 QBs (we need the depth) - but unless you have a PROVEN replacement to start, I'd rather not roll the dice on someone else.

With Gillbride gone, DB won't be as horrid. Will he be back to the Pro Bowl? Who knows. I need a reasonable replacement before I cut Bledsoe "just because"

[ScottLawrence]

If Bledsoe has a pretty descent year, should we bring him back?

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
If Bledsoe has a pretty descent year, should we bring him back?

that depends on how decent a year he has. The way he's played, I don't think we should keep him more than another season or two. We'd have to review his play over the course of the season and then decide...but don't go by the stat line..that's for FF owners and people who don't understand the play of the team and individual players.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
If Bledsoe has a pretty descent year, should we bring him back?

Depends on cost.
If he does not renegotiate- it will be moot because the Bills can't afford the $12-13 million cap hit for a QB - even if his name was Favre, McNabb or Manning.

Depends who is out there in FA, who we draft, how well the team does.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Even the best rookies take a couple of years to develop. Rosters have very short shelf lifes. The defense is ready NOW. The RBs are ready NOW. WRs are good enough. With McNally, the OL should be very close to servicable if not semi-decent with an addition or two.

So, we going to waste that waiting for a Smoker?Loseman?Rivers?Henson? Even blowing extra picks in one of the deepest drafts in a decade to move up to get Big Ben or Eli will cost us a few seasons to develop them. By the time they are up to speed (IF THEY GET UP TO SPEED- HISTORY TELLS US IT's 50-50) then you are going to habve to replace Big Pat, Sam Adams, and maybe Spikes, Clements, Fletcher and so on.

True, but then this is only half of the picture. Draft a future QB *and* grab a cap-friendly veteran who just has to "not lose" the game for you by getting sacked by holding the ball too long, or by making numerous bad decisions and throwing INTs when faced with aggressive defensive strategies. You can go to the SB with this kind of QB as we've seen with less-than-superstar QBs such as Delhomme and Brady.

IMO, Drew will *never* be that kind of QB. He never has in the past so why will he now after 11 years in the league? Because of Wyche? Clements? I hope I'm wrong but the probability is just not there given his long tenure in the league and what he has done to date.The expression that comes to mind... "Can't teach an old dog new tricks".

Cut Drew and with the money you save you can get that type of QB I mentioned above *and* shore up the other areas like DL. It just makes too much sense not to do this, so I really wonder what the deal is. Maybe they are playing the shell game and don't want to tip their hand of the new master plan....I sure hope that's the sccop, anyway. And I guess if there is no penalty by holding him for another 2 months they can afford to wait.

But in the end I honesly hope they find a vet QB, draft a future prospect and send Drew back to the ranch in Wyoming. He is a nice guy but that doesn't win games.

[doug45]

Originally posted by The_Philster
:bf1: Great post, Dozer. The pieces are in place now for the most part. Drew doesn't have to be Brett Favre..just has to play caretaker with maybe a game or two during the season when he's a difference maker. It worked for Dilfer :idunno:


Any QB can be a CARETAKER for a lot less money. I would rather see a young QB that we will have in the future. If we don't start now there will never be a future.

[hemi13]

It ain't doing to happen, some sit back, relax and watch what number 11 does this season. He's far from being washed up.

[doug45]

Originally posted by hemi13
It ain't doing to happen, some sit back, relax and watch what number 11 does this season. He's far from being washed up.


I hope you are right, but history has shown otherwise.

[hemi13]

As for the future, again I say we draft Philip Rivers and prepare for the day when we don't have Drew. Let Rivers learn the pro system for a couple years and then make him our starter. Drew has a couple more good (yes I said good) years left in him.

[doug45]

I don't think the fans will put up for two more years like the last two.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by kal123
True, but then this is only half of the picture. Draft a future QB *and* grab a cap-friendly veteran who just has to "not lose" the game for you by getting sacked by holding the ball too long, or by making numerous bad decisions and throwing INTs when faced with aggressive defensive strategies. You can go to the SB with this kind of QB as we've seen with less-than-superstar QBs such as Delhomme and Brady.

IMO, Drew will *never* be that kind of QB. He never has in the past so why will he now after 11 years in the league? Because of Wyche? Clements? I hope I'm wrong but the probability is just not there given his long tenure in the league and what he has done to date.The expression that comes to mind... "Can't teach an old dog new tricks".

Cut Drew and with the money you save you can get that type of QB I mentioned above *and* shore up the other areas like DL. It just makes too much sense not to do this, so I really wonder what the deal is. Maybe they are playing the shell game and don't want to tip their hand of the new master plan....I sure hope that's the sccop, anyway. And I guess if there is no penalty by holding him for another 2 months they can afford to wait.

But in the end I honesly hope they find a vet QB, draft a future prospect and send Drew back to the ranch in Wyoming. He is a nice guy but that doesn't win games.

All I said was if you can get a proven starter, then it's OK with me. I don't want a guy who's never started before out there trying to get us into the playoffs.

I also don't want to use up all our rermaining cap space or high draft picks on an older vet- I'd rather have a rookie QB to develop with the pick instead. The last thing I want o do is give up a #2 pick for a Brunell AND draft a QB with the #1 or #3. We have too many other holes to fill.

[Dozerdog]

I would give up a #2 for Ramsey, though, or a #1 next season

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I would give up a #2 for Ramsey, though, or a #1 next season

Same here...I wanted to draft Ramsey instead of picking up Bledsoe. Got a feeling that part of the reason that we got Bledsoe was because the Skins beat us to Ramsey.

[BillsFever]

Strange. If Bledsoe put up good numbers then stats would mean something. Because he doesn't then they mean nothing.

Funny all the stars of the NFL and HOF's all have good numbers for their career. I'm not talking about pass attempts and passing yards. I'm talking about TD-TO ratio and wins. Unfortunately the only thing Bledsoe has is the pass attempts and passing yards.

You ever see a player in the NFL that was considered good with horrible numbers throughout their career? I guess all the great players are just FF players who were lucky to be on good teams and have great coaches.

It's too bad Bledsoe got stuck in New England with Bill Parcells, Bill Belicheck, and a horrible team that Brady has won 2 Super Bowls with. What a shame.

If stats don't matter, then how come all the Bledsoe excuse makers like to point to his great half a season in 2002 that gave him good numbers to finish out the year with? I guess it depends on what you wanna believe to make yourself feel better.

Keep searching. The denial is gonna eat you alive.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by BillsFever
half a season in 2002 that gave him good numbers to finish out the year with?

:bf1:

I couldn't agree more.

They went 5-3 beating up on lower end teams. Wow. Since then it has been 9-15. Plug in a competent, consistent QB and that 9-15 becomes at least 14 - 10 with the surrounding talent, no matter how bad the coaching.

Bledsoe's on going support amazes me. Some people think he is "good enough" I guess. I'd rather strive to do better. NEVER SETTLE.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by The Natrix


Bledsoe's on going support amazes me. Some people think he is "good enough" I guess. I'd rather strive to do better. NEVER SETTLE.

I wouldn't really call it on going support. It's only a minority of fans who actually think that.

[BillsFever]

Most of these people who think Bledsoe is good are company guys.

I swear whenever there is a heated topic(not even about Bledsoe) I can almost predict what point of view they will have before I even read their post. They're more predictable then a hooker on Chipawea street.

Some people have set ways no matter what the subject is. Too many people care about how nice a player is and not what they can do on the field.

Then there's people like us. We don't develop personal ties to overpaid athletes to play a game. We let their play on the field dictate how we feel about them.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by BillsFever


I wouldn't really call it on going support. It's only a minority of fans who actually think that.

NO WAY!

I was at the Colts, Houston, and Miami games in which Bledsoe was terrible in all and I was booing him until I lost my voice. No one else was and in fact many kept telling me "it's the coaching, dude." ****ing robots.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by The Natrix
NO WAY!

I was at the Colts, Houston, and Miami games in which Bledsoe was terrible in all and I was booing him until I lost my voice. No one else was and in fact many kept telling me "it's the coaching, dude." ****ing robots.

Yeah, it's funny them same coaches helped him reach the pro bowl that the Bledsoe minions like to refer to all the time.

When he did good under them it was because Drew is the man. When he sucks under them it's because them same coaches suck.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by The Natrix
NO WAY!

I was at the Colts, Houston, and Miami games in which Bledsoe was terrible in all and I was booing him until I lost my voice. No one else was and in fact many kept telling me "it's the coaching, dude." ****ing robots.

You obviously wern't sitting in my section then. The few Bledsoe lovers around there were too afraid to speak up. They kept their heads down in shame instead.