View Full Version : Does anyone else feel somewhat betrayed by the FO and coaches?
Am I the only one, or is anyone else out there feeling somewhat betrayed by the team, ie. FO, coaches, etc., that we would be better than we are w/ the talent we have now?
Romes
10-14-2002, 01:19 AM
I'm not I remember posting TD quotes where he said, don't get your hopes too high we are still a work in progress.
Betrayed definitley not but dissapointed yes, mostly with JG and GW's defense. I feel we were led to believe we had one of the best LB cores. Instead we have Robinson who is invisible, Newman that is not getting playing time and Fletcher is playing decent when he was supposed to be pro-bowl caliber.
On the other hand I did not expect to be THIS good on offense. the two, kind of, balance each other out to yield the result of the record I expected.
OMG, Wys...an NFL head coach or GM inflated the "value" of their team in the media. They never do that, not on any other team, or in any other pro sport or in the business world. :D :rolleyes:
Do I feel cheated, lied to, etc. etc. Sure! Do I let it bother me to the point of obsession ? Absolutely not! I'll let you in on a little secret that's allowed me to keep my sanity, Wys......are you listening???? I'll have to whisper.......
I DON"T OWN THE FRICKIN' TEAM!!!!!!!!!! Let the poor saps who shelled out way too much money to buy the team worry @ it. I'll just enjoy the games & have a good time while doing it.
That's the beauty of off-season prognosticating by GM's, coaches, etc. Every team is undefeated at that point. There's no risk to making any kind of prediction/claim/etc. about your team's future performance in the off-season. I'm sure the Bengals were claiming they'd be a .500 team, when they knew full well that the'yre gonna suck large this year. It's all @ bums in chairs.
It's no different from the makers of Tide claiming the "new, improved Tide" is better than the old Tide. It probably isn't any better, but the product manager's job is to convince you that it is. Hype, hyperbole, advertising, etc. It's what makes the world go round...the sizzle sells much better than the steak.
Try & sell tickets for an NFL team based on a theoretical, objective analysis and dissertation including play-by-play stat breakdown & absolute "truths" and "facts" (according to Hoyle) & I'll guarantee two things; You've missed the point about why 99% of people enjoy football and you'd be out of business in very short order.
And BTW, I DO do my washing in Tide, since in North Bay, for 6 months out of the year, it's too cold out Tide. :D
Captain gameboy
10-14-2002, 05:48 AM
I don't feel betrayed at all. In my wildest dreams I didn't think we'd be 3-3 at this point, with a lead about 8 mins into the 4th vs. the Raiders, a turnover away from beating the Broncos, and a coin toss from beating the Jets.
I am alarmed by the inability to "hide" Watson by scheme, but overall, I don't think we're bad enough to make me feel "betrayed."
I suspect these thoughts are from people who think we should have demolished an expansion team. I didn't. They had two weeks to prepare, were in a frenzied home stadium and the NFL expansion rules make it much easier to get competitive fast. If they didn't, nobody would plunk down the outrageous fees to do it.
don137
10-14-2002, 05:58 AM
When TD took over I felt this team was three years away from being a contender. I still feel they are a year away and TD and the scouting department did a great job so far. They are fun to watch. I am sure TD and GW are disappointed in a few of the players they have on defense (Watson, Robinson and Denney, etc.) but considering the mess TD had when he took over I am satisfied with what I am seeing. I expected 8-8 and I think that is where we will finish.
JayWood
10-14-2002, 07:56 AM
After six games we are 3-3, with the 3 "L's" all possible wins. I thought we would be better on defense and never in my wildest dreasm did i think our offense would be this strong. Remember we are a rebuilding project. This coming off season TD and company will address the defensive side of the ball, and then come 2003, watch out this team will be damn good.
Earthquake Enyart
10-14-2002, 08:12 AM
You seem to forget how horrible they were last year.
They have made great strides and are competative against any team. But the defense really needs to show some progress, sometine soon. Particularly the FA's, Fletcher and Robinson.
Voltron
10-14-2002, 08:46 AM
One again I think that Wys is going off the deep end and is calling for all the women and children to the life rafts cause he believes our ship is sinking. I will agree I am very very disappointed with this D. We can't change our scheme in the 7th week of the season and expect a below average cover team to pick it up and we can't expect miracles from the likes of Watson and (fill in name of DL here). Williams is the lone bright spot on the D and PP and NC have teams scared to throw to them somewhat. I am upset about penalties more than anything. Most of them are just plain dumb!
I think we are on track this season to a .500 season and we should give the team all our support we can. I haven’t seen the Buffalo Bills try this hard since Jim Kelly played. This is happening because of none other than Drew of course, but I think we all knew that. Our offense is still one of the most explosive in the league and they have kept us in every game so far. I don’t feel cheated at all. Not after I put my good name in support of Rob Johnson and got didly. Wys do you remember how bad last year was? We were the joke of the AFC! This year we have all the top teams RESPECT! You think that Miami is going to over look us? Don’t bet on it! They used to rely on a guy who used his arm as much as Drew has … I remember him well. He ruined many a Sunday for me… Dan Marino. So yeah the D needs help, The STs are improving evry week, and our offense is outstanding ! We are on track to an 8-8 season and another good off season we will be in the Playoffs! I sure hope we can keep Price!
TedMock
10-14-2002, 09:05 AM
TD did say to be patient this year and admitted they weren't quite ready. I honestly feel that the Bills are exactly what I thought they'd be this year. The offense is solid and we need help on the D-Line. I think the whole defense is getting blamed for what 2 or 3 guys are killing us on. With the exception of Pat Williams, the D-Line is hot and cold....more cold than hot. If an opposing QB has 7+ seconds to throw the ball, the best DB's in history can't cover that long. I thought we should've addressed the D-Line in the offseason and when we didn't, I figured the run D would suffer and there'd be no qb pressure which trickles back to the LB's and DB's. I don't think they're that far off though. I think the LB's are solid and the DB's are solid. On both sides of the ball it starts with the line. We improved the OL and while it still needs experience and improvement, it is better. Yes, Bledsoe is having a great season so far but it still starts with the line. Again, I think they're where they should be right now. I felt 7-9 to 9-7 was a realistic goal this year. I think they must get at least another DT next season and probably another end too and then I'll say they're ready for the playoffs. Until then, I'll keep my fingers crossed, hope for the best but I'll also try to be realistic.
Fat Tony
10-14-2002, 09:22 AM
Betrayed?
Finding your wife in Bed with your best friend is Betrayal.
Wearing a wire is betrayal
Telling the Russians who our spies are is betrayal
Your Dog eating your tax return...(not that I fill one out)
This is football. I watch, I cheer, i register my glee or disgust accordingly. Betrayal? I don't think so.
Kelly The Dog
10-14-2002, 09:29 AM
I will bet almost anything that Tom Donohoe wins NFL Executive of the Year. Not really the grounds for feelings of betrayal.
BillsNYC
10-14-2002, 09:34 AM
Does anyone else feel somewhat betrayed by the FO and coaches?
nope....just you
Captain gameboy
10-14-2002, 09:52 AM
Winless Rams beat undefeated Raiders with Warner out? Nothing surprises me in this league. Most teams are very close to eachother.
Novacane
10-14-2002, 10:05 AM
I think you chose the wrong word Wys.
Possibly. Good feedback nonetheless. Points well-taken!!!
Food for thought on some of those comments:
8-8 I highly doubt will happen. I'm thinkin' more along the lines of 3-7 our last 10. I'm sure that may sway some of your opinions if and when that happens. We've been extremely lucky regarding the lack of serious injuries. They will come however as no team makes it through the season injury free as we have done thus far. Dependent upon the scope of those injuries, we are one or two away from complete disaster. Here's hoping that we don't get bitten too hard.
Jaywood,
"After six games we are 3-3, with the 3 "L's" all possible wins. I thought we would be better on defense and never in my wildest dreasm did i think our offense would be this strong. Remember we are a rebuilding project. This coming off season TD and company will address the defensive side of the ball, and then come 2003, watch out this team will be damn good."
All three wins were also possible losses against teams that shouldn't have even played us closely. Counterpoint.
I just hope that the D doesn't "improve" in the same manor next year as it did this year or we'll give up 700 points. No one here mentioned why on earth this D should even have slipped.
EE,
"You seem to forget how horrible they were last year."
No, actually I remember quite vividly. You, to counter, seem to not realize how much worse our D is this year. It really has gotten quite bad. Why? Coaching? If so, then why the hope for next year barring major coaching changes?
Yes, the offense has made great strides, but primarily due to Drew and him alone. Honestly, we'd be 0-6 w/o Drew.
Voltron,
"This year we have all the top teams RESPECT! You think that Miami is going to over look us?"
No, not offensively. But I can assure you that teams w/ struggling offenses welcome a chance to play us! Do you think that Miami, even w/ Lucas, is worried about whether or not they'll score v. us?
Also, Henry has demonstrated, albeit he may improve, that he only shows up half the time at best. Drew traditionally has not played well v. Miami. His last 16 games v. Miami he's 6-10. Last 6 games going back to '98 he's 1-5 w/ 6 TDs to 12 INTs. What if Henry doesn't provide the balance in games and Drew isn't quite on as he wasn't in the first half yesterday? Honestly, if Henry is off, we're likely down 17-3 or so at the half. Maybe more.
The teams that we've played to date are weak or were weak. Oakland has played no one and their pretenses were unmasked yesterday against a good but not great Rams team w/ a 3rd string QB at the helm. They'll go .500 or so from here on out. Denver is excellent. Chicago and Minnesota and Texans will be lucky to have 12 or 14 wins among them at seasons end.
Our schedule's intensity takes off dramitically hereafter. The "cakewalk" Detroit game is wedged in between the Miami and Pats games. The "cakewalk" Cincy game is after a hellacious streak of tough games and during what is likely to be horrible weather. Key: they have a running game w/ Dillon that could singlehandedly win the game. Let's hope Henry is on and that he doesn't give up another 7 points.
I just am not seeing that we are "close" for next year. I'm seeing yet another season of rebuilding and a host of coaching issues that barring some firings will remain unchanged in all liklihood.
We'll see. Unfortunately, if we do go on a skid to finish our last 10 say 3-7, I think that more of you are going to be viewing this through my eyes. But there's nothing to suggest that we can beat a balanced team. Nothing. All three victories for us this year were against three teams that were anything but balances, or even good for that matter. I dare say that Minnesota, Chicago, Houston, and the Jets at the time we played them were 4 of the worst 6 teams that we'll play this season.
That's 2/3 of our schedule over the first 6. 8 of the remaining 10 games will be against much better and much more balanced teams that we really haven't faced. To think that we're gonna all of a sudden pull out the stops on D is unfounded.
Interesting points though and some good humor in there too...
BillsNYC
10-14-2002, 11:21 AM
i've never encountered a man more negative than wys guy.
Just being objective there NYC.
It's easy to say "Rah, Rah, we're #1" and then finish the season at 6-10 and then make excuses as to why we were so bad when in fact we shouldn't have been and more importantly there's things we can do to fix our problems but I'm not sure they're gonna be done.
But when the talent increases, yet we get worse, the only logical conclusion is that it's the coaching. A change of coaching likely adds yet another year to this "rebuilding" project that if not managed expediently, can cause enthusiasm to wane to the point where the opposite in fan support happens.
I can assure you that at such a point, I would be more optimistic than most. I'm a realist, not an emotionalist. It doesn't have to either blow or be perfect to me. But to deny that we have some serious, and unexpected I might add, issues is to not be objective.
I will say this, if Drew goes down w/ injury, and if Brown doesn't fill in adequately, then we'll be very lucky to win 2 more games. I'm not expecting that, but Drew is all that is between our good offense and the hope for this team at this point, and disaster. That's a bit too precarious for me. No team should have that much riding on one single player.
The coaching clearly isn't going to win any games for us.
Earthquake Enyart
10-14-2002, 11:51 AM
I don't agree that the talent is a whole hell of a lot better than last year.
Fletcher for Cowart
Robinson for ?
Ahonatu for Flowers
Bannan, et al for Price
Wire for ?
Not a huge upgrade. Not to say that the performance is not disappointing, it is. But the talent isn't really hugely upgraded there either. I do agree that coaching will not win us any games this year either.lol. On EITHER side of the ball.
The_Philster
10-14-2002, 03:35 PM
Actually, EE. It's
Fletcher for Spoon...Cowart played hardly at all last year and we have no idea how he would have performed at a brand new position anyway.
Robinson for Foreman.......Robinson hasn't done anything but he hasn't made dumb mistakes to help the other team like Foreman did yesterday.
Ahanotu would be more a replacement for hansen than anyone else.....I'd say Grant Irons would be the one who replaced Flowers.
Wire for Raion Hill...Hill was good enough in the old defense under Cottrell but didn't adapt well to the 46
"I don't agree that the talent is a whole hell of a lot better than last year."
Fine. I'll acquiesce. Call it equal. There's no way you can argue that it's any worse. At any rate the level of experience alone should have improved it somewhat!
How come we're so much worse then?
John Doe
10-15-2002, 06:02 AM
Wys: "Just being objective there NYC." Isn't the sense of betryal a subjective emotion. The mere use of the words "feel betrayed" implies that there is little objectivity involved in your state of mind.
Novacane
10-15-2002, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Fat Tony
Betrayed?
Finding your wife in Bed with your best friend is Betrayal.
Spoken form experience? :)
"i've never encountered a man more negative than wys guy."
I've never encountered a group of people who really think that w/ the defense that we have, the chances of making the playoffs is even mentionable let alone practical. .500 is an outstanding and realistic goal as a top-end for a team w/ the D and schedule that we have.
John Doe,
"Betrayed" may have been the wrong word. Although I do feel that the coaches are trying to feeds us a rash of crap.
Again, and I know I'm not alone in this when I say that these "ties" to the Steelers and Titans as if we have some sort of inside scoop on ex-Steeler or ex-Titan players is ridiculous.
I've also never seen so many FAs this offseason in need areas get scooped up for less than we paid for lesser talent for players that don't particular fit the position that they were taken for. Ie., Teague and Robinson. Fletcher, the jury is still out on him, but he's making a nice chunk of change too. What's up w/ that? Either he needs to start earning it or he's tremendously overrated!
Who else are we supposed to blame for all of this? During the offseason I was outwardly outspoken against signing Teague, Robinson, and in keeping Watson when there were a whole bunch of CB options available for what he makes!
That isn't the fans or players fault all of that.
I think that one of the things that makes this a touchy subject is that I'm not sure many of you realize that in today's NFL you can expect to have any particular core of players together for 2, 3 years if you're lucky. Next year will be the second, but if we're not competitive, then it's wasted too. To assume that everyone will be here in '04 is presumptuous. Our OL-men will start "coming up" too.
Next season is our best shot w/ this core of players IMO. The question is are we doing the best we can FAcy-wise, Draft-wise, and within the time frame within which it's practical to work? I don't think we are. I'm happy w/ our draft, but our FAcy, especially in hindsight, is dubious at best. Lots of money but not lots of paybacks yet!
LtBillsFan66
10-15-2002, 02:07 PM
"Does anyone else feel somewhat betrayed by the FO and coaches? "
No not me. The O is playing amazing.
I'm a little surprised (far from feeling betrayed) at the d's lousy performances. Look on the bright side – Clements and Winfield are virtually lockdown corners. The flip side is it opens the floodgate onto Watson.
All and all, I am pleased and look forward to each game.
Rebecky
10-15-2002, 02:31 PM
It all boils down to one issue for me:
DEFENSIVE COACHING
We have every ingredient necessary to make the playoffs THIS year, even go to the SB, except defensive coaching. Because of our high scoring offense, we only need an average, mediocre D -- and we definitely have enough talent for that.
CAN A TEAM CHANGE D-SCHEMES IN MID SEASON? YES.
The Titans did just that this past week with great success -- and they had been using the same horrid 46-D that we are STILL using.
DO WE HAVE TO FIRE THE HC/DC IN ORDER TO INSTITUTE A NEW SCHEME? Not necessarily.
Not if RW and TD put the screws to GW and ORDER him to take control of the team and make the necessary changes NOW.
(I am not convinced that Bud Adams didn't do just that last week with Jeff Fisher and the Titans -- Things sure changed in a hurry around here after Adams' angry public comment about the Titans being outcoached.)
Come on, RW -- you're not going to let Bud Adams "out owner" you, are you? Assert yourself and take GW to the woodshed.
Patrick76777
10-15-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
"i've never encountered a man more negative than wys guy."
I've never encountered a group of people who really think that w/ the defense that we have, the chances of making the playoffs is even mentionable let alone practical. .500 is an outstanding and realistic goal as a top-end for a team w/ the D and schedule that we have.
Hey Wade, If you think we can get 8 wins this year, then why is it so unrealistic to sneak out 2 more to finish with 10 and make the playoffs?
http://www.atlantafalcons.com/photos/wphillips_head.gif
THATHURMANATOR
10-15-2002, 02:56 PM
I don't feel betrayed do you Wys?
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