Bad News on Troy Vincent...

[Michael82]

Vincent, the Trenton native, completed his second visit with a two-day stay in Cincinnati. He spent all day Wednesday in Buffalo, flew home on the Bills' private jet Wednesday night, and then flew to Cincinnati Thursday afternoon and did not return home until last night.

Vincent received a modest offer from the Bills, who do not have a lot of room under the salary cap, but did not accept it. He did not accept an initial offer from Cincinnati last night, but was still talking with the team.

"I liked it there," Vincent said. "That is definitely a team that is getting better. They have some good young players and a commitment to win. I was impressed with their facilities and their new stadium."

If Vincent does not accept a Bengals' offer, his next stop should be Kansas City, where Dick Vermeil and the Chiefs have entered the mix. Indianapolis could jump in as well.

The Jets, who were out of the bidding when they reportedly signed Antoine Winfield to a six-year, $30 million deal, could be back in discussions as well.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1078567695317662.xml

[The Spaz]

That really blows!

[shelby]

:( Ah well.

[Michael82]

modest offer from the Bills? It seems like TD tried to lowball Vincent and he's not even talking to the Bills anymore. Why not try to see what he wants? I mean, at least Cincy is still talking to him. The Bills should too. :sadwalk:

[The Spaz]

TD will not overspend on anyone he sets a price and sticks to his guns.

[shelby]

Originally posted by The Spaz
TD will not overspend on anyone he sets a price and sticks to his guns.

That's one of the things i like about him.:up:

[Nighthawk]

For f'n sake cut Prioleau, Van Pelt and somebody else and make some room. These guys will not help you get to the Super Bowl...Vincent has that much talent. It shouldn't even be a tough decision. Now, I'm not saying give him stupid money (see Winfield contract), but you cannot wait to fill this corner position. With our lack of pass rush, we need a good corner on that side.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by shelby


That's one of the things i like about him.:up:

:up: :beer:

[Michael82]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
For f'n sake cut Prioleau, Van Pelt and somebody else and make some room. These guys will not help you get to the Super Bowl...Vincent has that much talent. It shouldn't even be a tough decision. Now, I'm not saying give him stupid money (see Winfield contract), but you cannot wait to fill this corner position. With our lack of pass rush, we need a good corner on that side.

I couldn't agree more! :bf1:

[nolimit]

I read this article on another site. It is a bunch of lame B.S. Where do they think we dont have much cap room to work with?? If we really wanted Vincent desperatley we could thorw cash at him. But TD will not, and I wouldnt want him to. Fact is we have more cap room than the bungles. Vincent will be a bill and I dont believe TD or modrak are low-balling Vincent.

[ScottLawrence]

SO what do we do now?

Im starting to get impatient with Donahoe.

[LtBillsFan66]

We will be royally f'd if we don't pick up an adequate replacement for Winfield.

[kgun12]

Originally posted by nolimit
I read this article on another site. It is a bunch of lame B.S. Where do they think we dont have much cap room to work with?? If we really wanted Vincent desperatley we could thorw cash at him. But TD will not, and I wouldnt want him to. Fact is we have more cap room than the bungles. Vincent will be a bill and I dont believe TD or modrak are low-balling Vincent.

I agree. I don't think TD low balled him. Remember that they said we were close to signing Woody and he never even tlaked to TD. Relax Mickey, don't hang yourself :hang:

[ScottLawrence]

Thats true..... Im hoping TD gets this deal done because theres no where else to look but the Draft if a deal isn't reached.

[Romes]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
SO what do we do now?

Im starting to get impatient with Donahoe.

It may be the toughest thing to do...but we need to be patient. TD does not over pay players. I know somepeople would love a Snyder type that overspends but is able to get the big name. Thats not the style of the Bills FO.

Until, Vincent signs somewhere else we have not lost out on him.

Then again I too wonder what the Bills FO is doing...we haven't heard any news about anything the past few days.

[ScottLawrence]

Originally posted by Romes


It may be the toughest thing to do...but we need to be patient. TD does not over pay players. I know somepeople would love a Snyder type that overspends but is able to get the big name. Thats not the style of the Bills FO.

Until, Vincent signs somewhere else we have not lost out on him.

Then again I too wonder what the Bills FO is doing...we haven't heard any news about anything the past few days.


Yea.... I dont know, I hope TD knows what he is doing.

[ScottLawrence]

Anyone think we are banking on Madison to be released?

[Romes]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Anyone think we are banking on Madison to be released?

I'm not sure we are banking on it but I'm sure that if we don't get Vincent then TD will go after Madison.

[Michael82]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Anyone think we are banking on Madison to be released?

That's exactly what I'm starting to think. However, he will cost wayyyy more than Vincent. And we will have much more competition.

[shelby]

Originally posted by Romes
I'm not sure we are banking on it but I'm sure that if we don't get Vincent then TD will go after Madison.

It looks as if Madison is restructuring, so y'all shouldn't get your hopes up:

But Howard's arrival will not necessarily signal the departure of veteran cornerback Sam Madison. Gene Burrough, who represents Madison, said Friday he is close to finalizing a restructured contract with the team.

''It should be done by Monday,'' said Burrough, who did not say whether the restructured deal would include a cut of Madison's scheduled $6.3 million salary for next season.

Madison's pay likely will decrease because most teams cannot afford three corners with starting-caliber salaries. Patrick Surtain, Madison and Howard are earning starting money, with Madison and Howard seemingly headed toward a training camp competition.

link (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/8120317.htm)

[BillsMan80]

Don't believe this article. The writer is one of the worst reporters I have ever read. Mark Eckel is terrible at scooping stories. Believe me, I get the Trenton Times, and anything he writes is a piece of trash, and I just ignore it.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

On SABRES Game Night/Empire Sports Report update they said that Vincent is still very interested in the BILLS, he visited the Bungals and now he's going to visit a 3rd team. Doesn't mean that we are'nt going to get him.:scratch:

[Tatonka]

yeah.. i didnt take from that article that he was not interested at al.. they had no quote from him.. just some blurb that was completely inaccurate about hte bills being tight on cap space and offering him a modest contract.. yeah.. i am sure that vincent called the reporter and told him what we offered.. :rolleyes:

[Throne Logic]

Originally posted by BillsChampsin04
On SABRES Game Night/Empire Sports Report update they said that Vincent is still very interested in the BILLS, he visited the Bungals and now he's going to visit a 3rd team. Doesn't mean that we are'nt going to get him.:scratch:

Nope. Vincent was pretty adament about sticking to his promises to other teams.

He's given the impression that he will take a fair look at anyone who is willing to take the time to meet with him.

If Buffalo presented a package that is to his liking and is competeative with the other submissions, then Vincent will most likely be a Bill.

If you were on the job market and 6 companies wanted to interview you, would you sign with the first one you met with? I wouldn't, I'd take a look at each one and weigh the pros and cons.

[Dozerdog]

Does anyone read the cap pages?

We had 8-10 mill at most to play with. Teams out there have 15-25 mill to play with- christ- the vikes have 33 million.


I want Jackson
I want Woody
I want Vincent
I want Henson
I want Wistrom
I want TO
I want Kearse.........

Geesh people! You can't have everyone! People see the Redskins throwing away the future to win now and they think the Bills are missing out somehow.

Patience. There is a draft, there is plenty of FA's left. S we didn't pay 30 million for a guy with 6 carer interceptions. That's just plain good business.

[L.A. Playa]

I agree with patience isnt training camp still 4 months away, I would personally have liked to see this coaching staff with the same exact team as last year just to see how good this staff is or how bad the previous staff was.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I want Jackson - Neutral
I want Woody - No
I want Vincent - Yes
I want Henson - Hell no!
I want Wistrom - No
I want TO - Yes
I want Kearse - No thanks

I'm not asking that much am I?

[colin]

Remember sam adams? we got him and it worked out very well.

We cut off the cancer of our crap coaching staff, we have what should be a much improved line with at least 3 solid players, including 2 super talent tackles, 2 RBs who could light the world on fire, a top WR, a QB who has been to the probowl a few times and can throw the rock (yeah he ain't perfect, no one is and that is what coaches are for), and a D that kicked ass and took names last year, and with only one loss (our free saftey who lines up in the corner position).

There are not a whole lot of NFL teams with the horses we have, and if the coaches run their ship right we could be great.

Relax and enjoy the ride, if you get this upset over literally nothing you should stop being a fan and live longer.

[clumping platelets]

You don't give large signing bonuses to 33 yr old CB's in the salary cap environment of the NFL

[ScottLawrence]

THe only players I wanted before Free agency were DE Erick Hicks(Resigned), OG Chris Villariel(WE sign him), CB Troy Vincent, and C Chris Bobber, or C Mike Flynn(Resigned.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by The Spaz
TD will not overspend on anyone he sets a price and sticks to his guns. If TD does not restructure Drew and MIlloy's game doesn't play better than he did last year, we've overspent on those two.

Hopefully Mularkey revives Drew's career with a restructured contract and MIlloy get's better in his 2nd year w/ the bills.

Maybe TD is hoping for another Milloy situation after June 1st.

[ScottLawrence]

I thought Milloy did very well for us this year.... yea he didn't have any INT's but his coverage was very good, and he had A LOT of tackles.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
I thought Milloy did very well for us this year.... yea he didn't have any INT's but his coverage was very good, and he had A LOT of tackles. He did okay. But for whatwe paid him , he should be in probowl form.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
He did okay. But for whatwe paid him , he should be in probowl form.

He was also in a new defense which he had to learn on the fly.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by The Spaz


He was also in a new defense which he had to learn on the fly. that's why I said I hope he gets better in his 2nd year.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
I thought Milloy did very well for us this year.... yea he didn't have any INT's but his coverage was very good, and he had A LOT of tackles.


Originally posted by justasportsfan
He did okay. But for whatwe paid him , he should be in probowl form.


milloy did fine.. but it was barely better than what coy wire did as a rookie..

wire in 2002 -
Year Team Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Pass Def
2002 Bills 96 71.0 25 3 0 1

milloy in 2003 -
2003 Bills 104 69.0 35 3 0 8

and you have to assume that wire would have gotten better.. as he was a rookie when he played.. it only stands to reason that he would have been more comfortable..

basically we paid milloy a huge chunk of money.. to come in and get 8 more tackles.. (all assisted btw... wire beat him in solo tackles).. and 7 defensed passes... so 15 total plays..

that is not smart cap management... wire would be going into his 3rd year now, and could potentially be a fixture on this defense for the future.. now he is buried on the bench.. and will be leaving when his contract expires most likely because he never got a chance to start... unless we cut lawyers ass by then.

i like milloy.. we just absolutely didnt need him ... we had a good ss.. and we still suck at FS.. there is no reason to waste that money.. and we could surely use it now.

[Dozerdog]

Please- stop with the stats argument!

The only stats that count are

Where the defense was in 2002 with Wire, where the defense went with Milloy

Show me stats on how many times our Safeties and Corners (sincer the safety is supposed to back them up) got burned in 2002 vs 2003

How many of Coy's tackles occured after the first down marker? How many of Milloys prevented first downs?


Those stats are irrelivant

[Dozerdog]

I shudder to think what a Coy Wire- / McGee combo all game. They are good players- but not a lot of experience. I think they would get exploited by a vet WR/QB combo

[Tatonka]

ok..i will stop with the stats.. and just put it like this..

coy wire was an up and coming SS for our team..

we cut his legs out from under him and rewarded him for playing so well as a rookie that just learned a new position by signing a guy that we didnt need to a big contract and promtly telling coy wire, go play special teams you worthless POS..

real nice.. real necessary..

we have no idea how good coy could be right now if he wasnt sitting behind milloy.. he could easily be approaching the status of john lynch.. thats for sure.. be we wont know now.. because we go milloy for the next three years.. in the mean time.. coy will be a FA and get the hell out of here and go somewhere where he gets to play more than special ****** teams..

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I shudder to think what a Coy Wire- / McGee combo all game. They are good players- but not a lot of experience. I think they would get exploited by a vet WR/QB combo

they are gaining tons of valuable experience on the bench i am sure... mental reps are a big help..

[BuffaloRanger]

Tatonka your arguement "and you have to assume that wire would have gotten better.. as he was a rookie when he played.. it only stands to reason that he would have been more comfortable." is flawed.

It's the same arguement that everyone used last offseason when I and a few others pointed out the O-Line was a weakness.

"No. No. It's another year they just have to be better." is what I read everywhere. Well the line sucked, Sullivan regressed.

Just because it's another year doesn't mean the player will improve drastically. Players don't automatically make huge strides in their 2nd/3rd years. Denney, anyone?

And when your team has the money to sign a veteran Pro-Bowl player from a team in your division (to replace a 2nd year player) you do it.

"he could easily be approaching the status of john lynch.. thats for sure.." That's alot to ask don't you think?

We all like Wire, but it sounds like you have let your emotions for him get in the way. I want what's best for the Bills, not just one player.