Why Vincent & Bober took so long

[Dozerdog]

Tait Departs, Bober Signs, Vincent Close
By Nick Athan
Date: Mar 13, 2004

The Kansas City Chiefs declined to match the offer sheet signed by John Tait on Friday night. When the decision became inevitable that the Chiefs could not re-work a deal wth Tait, they quickly signed former New York Giants tackle Chris Bober to a five-year contract.


The Chiefs also might be close to signing veteran cornerback Troy Vincent. Late Friday night the Chiefs increased their offer to Vincent and it appears that Kansas City has moved to the top of his with list. The Chiefs are battling with the Cincinnati Bengals and Buffalo Bills for his services. But unlike Tait, Vincent understands that the Chiefs have a legitimate shot at making the Super Bowl in 2004 and 2005.

As for Tait, his departure actually could be a blessing in disguise. Though Tait was a fine player, he was not a superstar. He had a very workmanlike attitude, played hard but he was not worth the coin the Bears offered him. The Chiefs were wise to pass on matching the offer. If they had, then Kansas City would have been hamstrung in trying to sign any other veterans.

Chiefs President Carl Peterson tried to find a way to match Taits offer but in the end his contract demands would have made Tait the highest paid Chief.

“Through this offer sheet, John and his agent asked for more compensation than our two nine-time Pro Bowl offensive linemen (Will Shields and Willie Roaf), our five-time Pro Bowl tight end (Tony Gonzalez), our three-time Pro Bowl running back (Priest Holmes) and our starting quarterback (Trent Green),” said Peterson. “The cash and salary cap demands for this offer sheet are too prohibitive for the Kansas City Chiefs to retain John's services.''

Bober was a standout center for the Giants until he moved to right tackle in 2003. Based on the contract size, $10 million, it would appear that Bober will be the Chiefs starting right tackle heading into training camp. That means Brett Williams will serve as the back-up and eventually could be groomed to replace Willie Roaf in two or three seasons. Bober is similar to Tait in size and should easily adapt to playing right tackle in the Chiefs offensive system.

The other free agent target on the Chiefs wish list has always been cornerback Troy Vincent. Now that the Chiefs have $6 million in cap room, they moved quickly to increase their offer for Vincent, who is expected to decide shortly and could be signed, sealed and delivered to Kansas City within the next 24 hours. Part of the reason, Vincent, did not sign with the Chiefs on Thursday was because the Chiefs were frantically searching for a way to match the Tait deal.

http://story.theinsiders.com/a.z?s=25&p=2&c=242335

[Dozerdog]

I think KC convinceed Bober and Vincent to hold off until the Tait deal completed itself- with extra money in the end for their troubles.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
But unlike Tait, Vincent understands that the Chiefs have a legitimate shot at making the Super Bowl in 2004 and 2005.


Exactly. At 33 (in June) he knows he doesn't have much time to waste on rebuilding teams, e.g., Buffalo. Can't say I blame him frankly. Realistically we aren't going to be a strong contender until at least the 2006 season because:

1. Next year at QB is wasted with Drew
2. Drafting a QB means he won't really see time until Drew is gone in '05, so he will need at least 2 years to develop...at least
3. McGahee (if he pans out) will need a good year to develop
4. New head coach/OC will need time to instill their style
5. Drafted WR will need 2 years to hit stride (unless we get lucky with a Boldin-type)
6. Same as #5 with respect to a drafted C

[L.A. Playa]

Whoever said any of the free agents (Bober, Vincent, etc.) are better than the talent that the Bills have on their current roster??? What ever happened to developing the talent you have already???? Remember the OL has fired 2 coaches in 2 years could that have had something to do with it poor play??? Everyone here has a Fantasy Football mentality lets get all the big names on our team and we will win. Lets come back to reality it takes chemistry to win in the NFL and coaching. Something that has been missing. TD brought in big names last year to try to win though he knew the coaching was questionable. Looks like this year he wants to see if the coaching staff can win with a very talented squad. Turining over the roster every year develops no chemistry, Mc Gee will be fine, Milloy will be even better now that he has time to gel with his teammates and Drew will be fine with a real OC and QB coach, you keep panicking in Buffalo it will look like Ralph will say F these fans I'm selling to LA and they will be very happy in sunny LA, otherwise be patient and live in reality land and not fantasy land.

[helmetguy]

Excellent post, pmacla; especially the part about "Fantasy Football mentality." The phrase rings familiar for some reason...

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by pmacla
Drew will be fine with a real OC and QB coach.

Well he had Charlie Weiss and Bill Belichick (HC) and he still was erratic and overall average at best, which led to him being traded...in the *division*, no less. So I don't see why you think TC has a "magic wand" to turn around 11 years of mediocrity. :idunno:

As to your other points however, I agree. Simply buying big names will not get you wins. *see Washington Redskins. Chemistry is *the* most important thing next to a head coach in this era of free agency. However, just keeping people together does not guarantee this. At some point you have to cut bait and start over. IMO, the Bills are at this point offensively.

[Goobylal]

Originally posted by kal123


Exactly. At 33 (in June) he knows he doesn't have much time to waste on rebuilding teams, e.g., Buffalo. Can't say I blame him frankly. Realistically we aren't going to be a strong contender until at least the 2006 season because:

1. Next year at QB is wasted with Drew
2. Drafting a QB means he won't really see time until Drew is gone in '05, so he will need at least 2 years to develop...at least
3. McGahee (if he pans out) will need a good year to develop
4. New head coach/OC will need time to instill their style
5. Drafted WR will need 2 years to hit stride (unless we get lucky with a Boldin-type)
6. Same as #5 with respect to a drafted C
If Vincent were smart, he'd join the team with the #2 defense which was returning every starter except for the guy he'd be replacing (and ostensibly upgrading). As for what you think of DB, and even if you think he's garbage, take a look at what Mularkey and Clements did with Stewart and Maddox. However Bledsoe isn't garbage, the O-line should be much improved and give him time, and the Bills plan on featuring the run anyway, so as to minimize reliance on Bledsoe carrying the offense. In KC they have an aging O-line, a serious downgrade now with Bober at RT, and outside of Vincent they're defense still sucks. Bad move by Vincent, but if he signs for a ton with them, it's good for the Bills.

[Goobylal]

Originally posted by kal123


Well he had Charlie Weiss and Bill Belichick (HC) and he still was erratic and overall average at best, which led to him being traded...in the *division*, no less. So I don't see why you think TC has a "magic wand" to turn around 11 years of mediocrity. :idunno:
Bledsoe had exactly 1 full season of Belichick and Weis, and the team went 5-11, thanks to a lack of talent all-around. As for Bledsoe's career in NE, he had at best 2 years with top talent on offense: 1996-1997, when he had Coates, Martin, Glenn, and Armstrong.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Goobylal
Bledsoe had exactly 1 full season of Belichick and Weis, and the team went 5-11, thanks to a lack of talent all-around. As for Bledsoe's career in NE, he had at best 2 years with top talent on offense: 1996-1997, when he had Coates, Martin, Glenn, and Armstrong.

And Bill Parcells. While proving to have the best temperment on the college level, let's not forget that his second coach, Pete Carroll, stunk. He did nothing with the Jets and oversaw the decline of Parcell's Patriots.

While Bledsoe did stink last season (thanks in part to bad coaching/playcalling/ OL), he has shown the ability to shine as well.

Are their better QBs AVAILABLE to the Bills out there? Maybe. But I can't see management turning over the apple cart to fix one position. This team can win with Bledsoe.


He does need to cut that salary though before next year

[Ickybaluky]

You can say what you want, but (from an outsider's perspective) isn't it time the Bills developed a home-grown QB? I understand the need to win now, but Buffalo needs to come out of this draft with a QB of the future.

Look at recent history, and importing QBs from the outside (and giving up picks to do so) hasn't worked. Unless you get lucky, most QBs who are good for the long-term don't get to FA. The best way to get a guy is to draft him and allow him to develop in your system. The Bills haven't done that in some time.

Again, that is just my opinion. However, for all the arguments one way or the other on the job that Donohoe has done, his ultimate success or failure will be determined on whether he is able to find the QB to lead this team for the next several years.

I don't see Drew being that guy, at this point.

[Dozerdog]

If Big Ben slips, and a dominant lineman isn' t there I'd thin about it.


Or Loseman if we can trade down to the late teens early 20's

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Goobylal
Bledsoe had exactly 1 full season of Belichick and Weis, and the team went 5-11, thanks to a lack of talent all-around. As for Bledsoe's career in NE, he had at best 2 years with top talent on offense: 1996-1997, when he had Coates, Martin, Glenn, and Armstrong.

Take a look at his entire 11 year career. I know this is a broken record for me since I've posted this a dozen times now, but I'll post again:

1. 4INTs for every 5 TDs
2. 15-to-1 attempts-to-sack ratio
3. 57% completion (and only 3 seasons did he crack 60%)
4. .500 career win/loss

So as you can see this is more than 1 full season with a lack of talent. Moreso, look at Brett Favre. I don't think he has ever had a pro-bowl receiver nor lineman (although I'm not sure about that one.) Yes, he's had Green for a couple of years, but Drew had Martin.


Originally posted by Goobylal
and the Bills plan on featuring the run anyway, so as to minimize reliance on Bledsoe carrying the offense.

I think it is beyond him carrying the offense. I think it is a matter of him being able to dink and dunk like a Delhomme. Never...and I do mean never...has he ever been able to show he can do this.



Originally posted by NE39
However, for all the arguments one way or the other on the job that Donohoe has done, his ultimate success or failure will be determined on whether he is able to find the QB to lead this team for the next several years.

I don't see Drew being that guy, at this point.

You are totally right. It is time to cut bait and start over. Dragging this on for another season is a waste of time, and does absolutely no good for anyone.

Morale will go down...star players will leave...star players who stay will age without getting closer to the prize...TD will get fired...we start all over again.

As Natrix said, cut Drew, grab a Volek (type) and draft a QB. TD needs to wake up and smell the mistake he made two years ago. Note: At that time I agreed with the trade, so I don't blame him for taking the shot. However, I do blame him for not stepping up so far to remedy that mistake.

Edit: I just thought about something. What QB was available when we drafted Todd Collins in '95? IMO, that was the beginning of the end of the Bills as we never receovered from that.

[elltrain22]

I reallly hate it that we seem to be losing out on most of the guys we are going after. Anyone else disappointed??

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by elltrain22
I reallly hate it that we seem to be losing out on most of the guys we are going after. Anyone else disappointed??

I'm not.

If wre get a guy at a good price, great!

But i'm not going to lose Jenings and Clements next year because we overpaid for a 33 year old CB or a Center who's better suited at tackle

[Stewie]

Quarterbacks selected in 1995

Steve McNair (3)
Kerry Collins (5)
Todd Collins (45)
Kordell Stewart (60)
Stoney Case (80)
Eric Zeier (84)
Rob Johnson (89)
Chad May (111)
Dave Barr (119)
Steve Stenstrom (134)
Jay Barker (160)
Jerry Colquitt (191)
Craig Wehilhan (197)
John Walsh (213)


Looks like Buffalo got burned twice by QB's from this sorry lot :(

[Mr. Cynical]

Paul - where did you find this info? I would love to see the list for each year since then till now. If you have the link please post it. :)

I think it will be interesting to see how many 1st rounders are still around, riding pine or selling real estate. :snicker:

[Stewie]

I just typed "1995 nfl draft" into google