The Status of the Offensive Line!

[Tatonka]

i think some of you guys are being a little overly pessimistic about our oline.. so i wanted to address it..

really guys.. come on.. and you know i am not a "rose colored glasses" guy.. but seriously.. lets take a look at this.

2 BAD oline coaches in 2 years.. neither were ever successful or proven.. that is finally gone now..

we have about as good an Oline coach as we could have possibly gotten.. so we are set there..

LT - nobody can complain about the job that jennings has done... he is probably our best offensive lineman at this point. marcus price is about as good as it gets as far as a back up tackle. he has played great in relief for jennings/williams when needed.

LG - this is the only spot of concern at this point.. but ruben was not a shell of his former self, so we saved the money and decided to go a different direction.. there is still PLENTY of time and a DEEP draft to fill this spot if need be. And i dont know why you guys think that sullivan can not come back and play very well. he was a big part of the line in 2002.. he played well (not perfect, but good) under crap coaching, and then was benched by another crap oline coach for no real reason.. but we did not just resign him to a 3 year deal for nothing (and the fact that we got him for less than 2 million for 3 years is unreal.. did you notice he was signed BEFORE FA started.. there is a reason for this, imho). Sullivan is my odds on favorite to be the starter come opening day UNLESS we sign a guy like jake grove/Stepanovich via the draft.. then i see teague moving over.. or competing at least with sullivan and tucker.

C - Teague is not the best center.. but he has also had to learn a new position in the nfl under two **** box coaches.. he now has a real teacher.. a guy that taught bober how to be a GOOD center after being a RT... it is a very similar situation to what mcnally has dealt with before.. i am confident that either a) teague will play better w/ better coaching and better offensive play calling.. or b) the bills will grab a guy like jake grove or alex stepanovich, meaning that teague will compete for the LG spot, which he could also be very good at.

RG - villarrial... we have a solid 8 year starting vet... in the days of the salary cap, you can not expect to have a probowler at every spot.. but villarrial is good enough to hold his own against anyone and brings in a warrior mentality that the new coaching staff like. no problems at RG now after watching pucillo and tucker struggle for the past 16 games at this spot.. ps.. we got him at a great price.

RT - mike williams is still an unknown resource... look, he hasnt played like a 4th overall pick yet.. but he has not been horrible either.. he has been on a line that has blocked for over 2700 yards for henry in the last 2 seasons.. and ALOT of those runs were behind and around williams.. we obviously know that has the talent to be as good as anyone in the nfl at the position.. new coaching will do nothing but help him live up to his draft position.

see.. imho, if you look at it sensibly, you can see that we are not in bad shape.. and we could potentially be in great shape with just a little bit of coaching help.. do you guys remember how excited we were about our young and improving OL coming into last season.. well guess what.. it is still basically the same right now, except we have replaced an aging and inconsistent ruben brown with villarrial, which is a GOOD thing. less money, same or better talent at this point in both their respective careers.

be patient guys.. teams like the redskins look pretty now.. but lets see if they win this season.. it never happens.. and then lets really see what they do when they have to field a team in a couple years and all those 10 million dollar SB come back to haunt them.

and that is all i have to say about that!

:D

:feedback:

:horse:

[mchurchfie]

Good post T.:up: I agree, my only concern is with Teague being a little too undersized at the Center position.

[Novacane]

I've said it a hundred times. Get a QB behind them that can move a little and also will throw the freaking ball away and they look like a differant line. They are not as bad as people make them out to be. Nowhere near as bad

[BAM]

they seem to do fine for Henry ... :up:

[don137]

I agree. I think running to the right side of the line will be a strong suit of this team... Other than Teague the OL and the backups are fairly young so a quality OL coach can not stressed enough. McNally has made a lot of lemonade with the lemons he has been handed for OL players in the past. I think he will get the most out of tthis unit and I feel this unit underperformed big time the past couple of years...

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I've said it a hundred times. Get a QB behind them that can move a little and also will throw the freaking ball away and they look like a differant line. They are not as bad as people make them out to be. Nowhere near as bad

I've said it 101 times...you have to protect any QB for at least 4 seconds...Bills QBs have had this problem dating back to the day that Kelly retired. Since 1996 we have had at least 4 OL coaches, 5 QBs and how many lineman...except for Flutie, who was able to move, we have had this problem...it is not just Bledsoe.



Originally posted by BAM
they seem to do fine for Henry ... :up:

Run blocking and pass blocking are two completely different beasts.

[helmetguy]

Well said, Tonk. My main ***** about this team for the past three years has been with the coaching. Just ask Mikey, Billsology and Philster about that. Several teams did a whole lot better than we did last year with a whole lot less. Pittsburgh's line play wasn't all that great in Tommy Maddox' first season, but Mularkey got more out of Maddox than what Maddox actually had. Having Mularkey, Clements AND McNally here should do wonders for theoffense. I think you'll agree that, in Gregg Williams and the brain mistrust he assembled, we've probably seen the worst .

[Nighthawk]

Say it anyway you want, but Teague blows and he is always...and I repeat...always getting bowled over. This causes the pocket to collapse and gives Bledsoe no time to throw the ball. They basically traded Brown for Villarial and that's it...no improvement in the line. We're still going to try to win with guys who were on the roster last year. Yes, McNally should help, but what if these guys aren't good enough...yep, you guessed it, we get to see the same crap as the past 3 years. Sorry, but that doesn't excite me...no matter what kind of spin you put on it!

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
...yep, you guessed it, we get to see the same crap as the past 3 years. Sorry, but that doesn't excite me...no matter what kind of spin you put on it!

OH GOD! Say it ain't so! PLEASE tell me it was just a nightmare that.......

GW aand KG aren't really gone!





(I gotta stop eaing spicy food so close to bedtime)

[ScottLawrence]

There is no spin on it!

You obviously know NOTHING about Jim McNally.... he turns **** into gold. If you look at the Giants starting offensive line its filled with late round and undrafted free agents. And they have the same mold of QB in Kerry Collins as we do in Bledsoe.

What does that tell you about McNally?

[justasportsfan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, was Mcnally the OL coach of the Giants when Dusty Ziegler became a good C the year the giants went to the sb? :idunno:

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Ebenezer


I've said it 101 times...you have to protect any QB for at least 4 seconds...Bills QBs have had this problem dating back to the day that Kelly retired. Since 1996 we have had at least 4 OL coaches, 5 QBs and how many lineman...except for Flutie, who was able to move, we have had this problem...it is not just Bledsoe.







Never said it was just Bledsoe. He is responsible for a lot of our sacks though. If you don't think who the QB is affects the line just look at RJ/Flute. They sucked when RJ was in there and suddenly the same guys rarely gave up sacks when Flutie went in.

[ScottLawrence]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Correct me if I'm wrong, was Mcnally the OL coach of the Giants when Dusty Ziegler became a good C the year the giants went to the sb? :idunno:


Yes, He was.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by mchurchfie
Good post T.:up: I agree, my only concern is with Teague being a little too undersized at the Center position.

that is a misconception.. teague is every bit as big as bober, who everyone was drooling over.. and is the same size as jake grove.. the best option in the draft.

Height: 6-5
Weight: 300
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12756


Originally posted by Nighthawk
Say it anyway you want, but Teague blows and he is always...and I repeat...always getting bowled over. This causes the pocket to collapse and gives Bledsoe no time to throw the ball. They basically traded Brown for Villarial and that's it...no improvement in the line. We're still going to try to win with guys who were on the roster last year. Yes, McNally should help, but what if these guys aren't good enough...yep, you guessed it, we get to see the same crap as the past 3 years. Sorry, but that doesn't excite me...no matter what kind of spin you put on it!

actually.. we did not trade brown for villarrial.. i am sick of people saying that.. it is so incorrect..

we traded pucillo for villarrial.. which is a HUGE upgrade.. no spin about it..

we traded a ****ty old guard that made too much money, in brown, for

a) sullivan, who can play and did play well in 2002.. but was benched because the "coaches" felt pucillo was a better option.. nice.. we saw what a good option he was.

b) a potential stud draft pick like vernon carrey, smiley, snee, peterson, stepanovich, or grove

and i havent missed a bills game in over 11 years... i watched every game last season, and teague was not constantly getting bowled over.. that is just a flat out lie... did he play great? no.. did he make mistakes? absolutely.. but was he lying on his back every time we dropped back to pass or ran the ball.. not even close...

mcnally made zieglar, glenn parker, and lomas brown a super bowl worthy OLine.. i am sure that teague is workable.


Originally posted by justasportsfan
Correct me if I'm wrong, was Mcnally the OL coach of the Giants when Dusty Ziegler became a good C the year the giants went to the sb? :idunno:

you are correct sir.

[The Spaz]

I think the obvious thing people find with Teague is he long snapping ability and the other is his lack of strength at the poin tof attack to knock someone on their ass something Jake Grove has consistently done.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by The Spaz
I think the obvious thing people find with Teague is he long snapping ability and the other is his lack of strength at the poin tof attack to knock someone on their ass something Jake Grove has consistently done.

That might change, too. With Pucillo at RG, there were too many times when either Teague or Williams had to divide their focus, to compensate for Pucillo.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by The Spaz
I think the obvious thing people find with Teague is he long snapping ability and the other is his lack of strength at the poin tof attack to knock someone on their ass something Jake Grove has consistently done.


agreed.. and that is why we would all be happy to have a guy like jake grove.. but i guess my point is not that teague is great.. but that he is average.. and you cant have studs at every position.. but we have good/above average bookends.. one good guard and one to be determined (could be great after the draft or if mcnally works with sullivan) and an average center.. dont tell me that dusty zeigler was/is better than teague.. and he was good enough to get to the sb.

[Romes]

Good job, Tatonka, I agree with your assesments. :up:

The point is that Bledsoe will have more time just because of better schemes and coaching. The players on our OL all deserve to be in the NFL. They all vary on talent level but there is no one that does not deserve a chance to start in the NFL.

That being said it is obvious there is room for improvement at LG and C. The other 3/5 I'm very happy with.

[ShadowHawk7]

Originally posted by BAM
they seem to do fine for Henry ... :up:

Not wen he's playing QB! :up:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by ShadowHawk7
Not wen he's playing QB! :up:

rofl.. yeah.. it is the olines fault that henry threw that duck up in he air..

0-1 with 1 int.. lol.

[BigZ]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i think some of you guys are being a little overly pessimistic about our oline.. so i wanted to address it..

really guys.. come on.. and you know i am not a "rose colored glasses" guy.. but seriously.. lets take a look at this.

2 BAD oline coaches in 2 years.. neither were ever successful or proven.. that is finally gone now..

we have about as good an Oline coach as we could have possibly gotten.. so we are set there..

LT - nobody can complain about the job that jennings has done... he is probably our best offensive lineman at this point. marcus price is about as good as it gets as far as a back up tackle. he has played great in relief for jennings/williams when needed.

LG - this is the only spot of concern at this point.. but ruben was not a shell of his former self, so we saved the money and decided to go a different direction.. there is still PLENTY of time and a DEEP draft to fill this spot if need be. And i dont know why you guys think that sullivan can not come back and play very well. he was a big part of the line in 2002.. he played well (not perfect, but good) under crap coaching, and then was benched by another crap oline coach for no real reason.. but we did not just resign him to a 3 year deal for nothing (and the fact that we got him for less than 2 million for 3 years is unreal.. did you notice he was signed BEFORE FA started.. there is a reason for this, imho). Sullivan is my odds on favorite to be the starter come opening day UNLESS we sign a guy like jake grove/Stepanovich via the draft.. then i see teague moving over.. or competing at least with sullivan and tucker.

C - Teague is not the best center.. but he has also had to learn a new position in the nfl under two **** box coaches.. he now has a real teacher.. a guy that taught bober how to be a GOOD center after being a RT... it is a very similar situation to what mcnally has dealt with before.. i am confident that either a) teague will play better w/ better coaching and better offensive play calling.. or b) the bills will grab a guy like jake grove or alex stepanovich, meaning that teague will compete for the LG spot, which he could also be very good at.

RG - villarrial... we have a solid 8 year starting vet... in the days of the salary cap, you can not expect to have a probowler at every spot.. but villarrial is good enough to hold his own against anyone and brings in a warrior mentality that the new coaching staff like. no problems at RG now after watching pucillo and tucker struggle for the past 16 games at this spot.. ps.. we got him at a great price.

RT - mike williams is still an unknown resource... look, he hasnt played like a 4th overall pick yet.. but he has not been horrible either.. he has been on a line that has blocked for over 2700 yards for henry in the last 2 seasons.. and ALOT of those runs were behind and around williams.. we obviously know that has the talent to be as good as anyone in the nfl at the position.. new coaching will do nothing but help him live up to his draft position.

see.. imho, if you look at it sensibly, you can see that we are not in bad shape.. and we could potentially be in great shape with just a little bit of coaching help.. do you guys remember how excited we were about our young and improving OL coming into last season.. well guess what.. it is still basically the same right now, except we have replaced an aging and inconsistent ruben brown with villarrial, which is a GOOD thing. less money, same or better talent at this point in both their respective careers.

be patient guys.. teams like the redskins look pretty now.. but lets see if they win this season.. it never happens.. and then lets really see what they do when they have to field a team in a couple years and all those 10 million dollar SB come back to haunt them.

and that is all i have to say about that!

:D

:feedback:

:horse:


Agree!

Time will tell but I'm optimistic that we'll have a real smash mouth line!

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Never said it was just Bledsoe. He is responsible for a lot of our sacks though. If you don't think who the QB is affects the line just look at RJ/Flute. They sucked when RJ was in there and suddenly the same guys rarely gave up sacks when Flutie went in.

Of course not. Flutie was too scared(not to mention too short) to stay back behind the OL.

[Nighthawk]

Wow, I hope you're right Tatonka...because if you're not, it ain't gonna be pretty! I personally don't agree with you, but hey, that's fine...we'll see when the season starts. By then, they may have drafted somebody to play center or LG. We shall see...

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Tatonka

...................and that is all i have to say about that!

:D

:feedback:

:horse:

Tatonka- you are so full of horse crap........you will have plenty to say about it in the next 6 months!












:fabulous:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
Wow, I hope you're right Tatonka...because if you're not, it ain't gonna be pretty! I personally don't agree with you, but hey, that's fine...we'll see when the season starts. By then, they may have drafted somebody to play center or LG. We shall see...

what is it that you dont agree with?


Originally posted by Dozerdog
Tatonka- you are so full of horse crap........you will have plenty to say about it in the next 6 months!
:fabulous:

can i get a TOS violation on this, someone? MODS!?

[Dozerdog]

:moon:

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I've said it a hundred times. Get a QB behind them that can move a little and also will throw the freaking ball away and they look like a differant line. They are not as bad as people make them out to be. Nowhere near as bad

FTG, the more I read your post, the more you make me think about WYS....:patriot:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
FTG, the more I read your post, the more you make me think about WYS....:patriot:

that is not as bad a thing as many make it out to be..

granted he was way off on a lot of things.. but he when he comes to bledsoe.. he was dead on from before the trade ever occured.. and last season he said that the fans would be calling for his head by the end of septemeber.. and that was about right..

now your hardpressed to find an actual bledsoe fan..

there are plenty of people that are able to "accept" bledsoe as the qb.. but basically no one is happy about it anymore.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I still believe in Drew.

I agree with your overall assessment of the line. As long as Pucillo ends up on the bench and Sullivan / mystery draft pick work out LG, we'll be fine.

[TigerJ]

I'm optimistic about the line, but then I'm optimistic about most things, especially relating to the Bills. I want to mention that it is three lousy offensive line coaches the Bills have had, dating back for years. Remember Carl Mauck?

I think the Bills are set at tackle and right guard. It's center and left guard where there is potential for flux. Teague has been extended and so will be with the team, but it's not a guarantee that he'll be at center. Ross Tucker was also signed to a contract that indicates Buffalo anticipates he'll have playing time rather than bench time. Although he's played more guard than center in the pros, it's conceivable the Bills will experiment some, using both Teague and Tucker at center in preseason.

Regarding Sullivan, I don't know how much of his struggles at guard last preseason were due to coaching and how much was just him. That's for Jim McNally to figure out this summer. I think Ben Sobieski will also be in the mix, and I won't bet against him eventually becoming the best in the group. With solid coaching, I think there is enough potential that a couple guys are going to rise up and be solid starters.

[Turf]

A alot of teams have done alot better with less than we've had. That's why I'm so glad we got the O-Line coach we needed.

[TedMock]

Originally posted by Tatonka


rofl.. yeah.. it is the olines fault that henry threw that duck up in he air..

0-1 with 1 int.. lol.

I actually did blame Pucillo for that! Pucillo's butt was in a very uncomfortable spot as far as Henry was concerned! He actually did get blown right back into him on that throw. That guy did so much damage to that side of the line, directly and indirectly.

[Tatonka]

henry still never should have thrown that ball.. he takes some responsibility for that play too.

[elltrain22]

Good post, w/ very good info.

[Nighthawk]

Tatonka, I disagree that the players are here to make this line better. That's it, cut and dry...it's my opinion and I happen to believe that it is right. You can have you're opinion, but I don't agree with it. Sorry...

[Statman]

It's always fun to look back.

[Tatonka]

from two years ago?

good work. i guess.

[Night Train]

I've watched them at camp several days and can't gage them. Actual games will tell more.

[Mr. Cynical]

lol....I didn't see the date at first and was like "wow, tonk is really positive on the oline this year".

[FinFaninBuffalo]

The funny thing is that you could change a few names and write the same post today or change a few names and it would fit 4 years ago too.

It's deja vu all over again....

[The Spaz]

The funny thing is that you could change a few names and write the same post today or change a few names and it would fit 4 years ago too.

It's deja vu all over again....


Touche!