Thoughts on turf?

[thisiskeith12]

Hey, I'm a newbie here, but I know some of the fellas that run this place pretty well. I just did an article about artificial turf and here is the link:

http://billsbillspage.com/home.shtml#1027541292

Just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on turf and such. The article has a lot of good facts as well as strong opinions, and I can put up more links from sources if needed.

[LtBillsFan66]

I friggin hate turf! I have played on it and there is a considerable difference. I used to feel twice as worn out after those games.

What is funny is that yes turf is an advancement in technology, but advances in technology have also made is easier to maintain grass. There is no need for plastic grass.

If Chicago and Green Bay can maintain real grass, anyone can, and should!

[thisiskeith12]

I played one game on turf my ninth grade year, most receivers say they like it because it allows them to run faster, but as a receiver, I hated it.

[SoCalBillsFan]

turf is a horrible investment for owners. Sure, it sagves the money on upkeep and stuff, but the players they a paying millions for get hurt.

I see NO reason why owners should not put in the new 'artificial grass" stuff if they can't/don't want to deal with upkeep of real grass. The artificial grass is awesome, it plays like real grass, it is soft, and players wont get hurt. It's not all that expensive.

Get rid of turf!!

[ArcticWildMan]

That new turf that Seattle plays on is supposedly the cats meow. Sadly, I doubt that we will see it anytime soon at RWS since the current turf is only a year or two old. The never ending rumors of us leaving Buffalo don't help the cause either. :cynic:

[HenryRules]

On a somewhat related note, did you guys hear about one of the stadiums they used for the World Cup in Japan? The place is a dome but they can use real grass that is grown outside the arena and then moved into the dome for the game. After the game the real grass is moved back outside so that it can grow. I think it took like two hours for them to move the stuff into the stadium on game days. I can't remember the name of the stadium, but I think it was called the Sapparo Dome or something like that.

[WCoastFin]

Turf sucks, IMO.

[thisiskeith12]

Hey Henry, I heard about that! They have it floating off of the ground, really cool! Lots of $$$ though

[JefftheBillsfan]

As bad as it is to watch a football game on turf it is so much worse playing on it IMO. Baseball on turf, now that looks bad.

[northernbillfan]

Grass is better for the legs. I agree with bf1, I played on both and I like grass much better.

Besides Turf smells funny when you smoke it.

[SABURZFAN]

i prefer grass.grass is more forgiving and the players won't get hurt so much.

[Shiny Chicken]

Originally posted by northernbillfan
Besides Turf smells funny when you smoke it.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[kgun12]

Keith let me first say that I am a old fashion kind of guy and believe all outdoor sports should be played on grass, BUT you need to do your homework man. There are just as many serious injuries on grass as there is on turf. Dan Marino's injury was on grass at the old Cleveland field. Curtis Enis's Knee injury was on grass. There was a the running back from Philly, he was suppose to be thier starter this year that tore his MCL and ACL on grass this spring. Lets not forget the back from New England I think his name was Edwards that tore the ACL and MSL on a beach football game at the Pro Bowl. Yes the burns are worse and it is very hard on the body, but the serious injury factor to knees and other joints is about 50/50. I know this because of a High School Coaches Course I had to take for my certification. These numbers come right from the Bills trainning staff. Do some more research on this subject you might be surprised

[thisiskeith12]

There are injuries that come from grass, football is a contact sport and injuries are part of the game. But more definitely happen on artificial turf than true grass. Most of the NFL players, except for the St. Louis Rams, seem to think so as well. And sand has nothing to do with grass or turf.

[kgun12]

Your wrong Keith, all those injuries I mentioned happened with NO contact. Mario was dropping back, the philly back was at Mini camp (no contact) NE RB was flag football. Oh by the way Beebe hurt his ACL or MCL last Sunday at the final showdown with Kelly ON GRASS NO CONTACT! Again do the research it is At least 50/50. AS far as you comment about the sand you make my point. The point of your article was major injuries on turf, I point out that other than burns the injuries to joints are the same.

[mybills]

It looks like turf won as the suckier surface.

I've always thought the injuries were worse on turf too, in regards to if you fell the same exact way on both you were more likely to have (at least a bruise) on you if it were turf, yet only grass stains on grass.

I don't know kgun, but it seems you do. Maybe the major injuries could happen the same way on anything.

[kgun12]

Ok Keith I did some research on my own. Go to Astroplay.com. then to general info, then to tech topics. Grass vs Synthetic Turf. This article was written by Todd Schmidt Director Hughston Cinic in Morrow. Here is a few of the things he had to say on the subject: "read how Ki-Jana Carter, the number one draft chice of the Cincinnati Bengals had suufered a season ending knee injury. Reading further. I saw that Rod Woodson, the all-Pro defensive back of the Pittsburgh Steelers suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament, puuting him on the sidelines for the year.
Agents of the two players immediately blamed the artificial surface the were playing on for the injuries. This made me wonder. Do surfaces such as AstroTurf actually increase the incidence of injury? Considering the many football and other athletic injuries we treat at the Hughston Clinic, the answer would be no"
"I also noticed that the NFL injury report included other injuries of equal severity. Michael Dean Perry (torn knee cartilage), Gerald Perry (broken arm) and Heath Shuler (sprained shoulder) among others, were all injured on grass fields. Yet, no blame was being placed on the grass. Considering the half of all NFL playing surfaces are AstroTurf, I found it curious that synthetic fields were being blamed."
He went on to say that in his "own professional experience, there was no perponderance of artifical turf injuries over those sustained on grass".
Then there is quotes from James Nicholas, MD, and team physician for the New York Jets said he hasd studied injuries in the NFL over a 26 year period. "What Dr. Nicholas found was that no statistically significant difference in the injury rates of grass and artificial turf. His findings were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Vol. 260, No. 7, pages 939-944).
There is move information in the article that backs up what I have said on this subject. Like I said on earlier posts I am a purest and thinks sports should be played on grass, but when I read things that are just NOT true it is important to correct them.

[bduff54]

Turf sucks. i have played both football and soccer on it many times. Anybody that has ever played on both will tell you grass is much better. why do you think nobody builds stadiums with turf anymore Kgun? all the new stadiums are outdoor with real grass. After a football game on turf your elbows are bleeding your fingers are ripped to shreds it makes no sense.

[LtBillsFan66]

kgun, did you ever play on both? Forget about the study and listen to players that have. Pro, high school, or wherever.

Another thing is when your head hits the ground. Turf is an instant concussion.

[HenryRules]

BF1, did you ever play football on grass during winter? I can tell you that frozen ground is just as hard as turf and is an "instant concussion" in your words. I've only played on turf in the summer months, so admittedly I don't know how hard it gets in the winter, but it can't possibly be any harder than grass in the winter.

[BuffaloBalls]

I think the new 'field' turf is one hell of an improvement. It is more expensive, but it is the best of both worlds. Stands up to severe weather, yet it has a grass feel... They say it keeps that grass field feel even in freezing weather.

I would love to see the Ralph get it.

[BillsNYC]

i remember years ago when rich stadium got new turf and one of the first games was against the bears and some fan had a sign that said "Hey Ditka...Don't Spit On Our New Rug!!!"

[SoCalBillsFan]

Several of you have said that the new artificial grass is expensive. It's not that expensive. HIGH SCHOOLS around here are putting it in now. My old high school has decided to put it in and it is costing them less than 1 million. Of course that's a lot of money to us, but for ralph? 1 million? he can swing that easily. Plus there is no upkeep- once you do it, your done. I really think he should put it in.

[kgun12]

dbuff and Bils fan. Yes I have played on both, that why I said I perfered grass for all sports, BUT if you would have gone to the site you would see you are wrong more and more High scholl and colleges are going to turf. Why because of the advances in turf and the amount of use the fields are getting. Also it is much cheaper in the long run.

[LtBillsFan66]

I hear those points kgun. Cheaper, easier to maintain, etc. But hardly any players prefer to play on turf. That says more than any study, IMO.

[northernbillfan]

Well said BF1

[kgun12]

dbuff and billsone. By the way, Thisiskeith wrote an article on how turf causes more bad injuries than grass, so I wanted to make sure he had his facts start. Talking about getting things right, this wasn't an opinion poll, but if it was, I would be sure to mark yours against.

[kgun12]

Last year the high school in East Rochester put in the same turf that Washington U. use the players love it. The only complaints are by the older folks who can't see the long range cost savings. So I guess I am listening to the players.

[bduff54]

kgun are we talking about the turf in the NFL or in general? i don't care if high schools want turf so they can play girl field hockey on it aswell as football. i am talking about the actual surface and its affexts on the athlete. Grass is better to play on. what does money and expenses have to do with it?

[kgun12]

Again the point of keith article was major injuries to players. He was talking about Pro player I guess, and the Jets team Dr. said for Pro players it was 50/50. BTW I think if Jim, Thrum, Bruce, Andre, and the gang would have wanted grass the could have gotten Uncle Ralph to do it. I never heard them complain. Just my opinion.

[kgun12]

As far a talking about the surface I was pointing out that the players who you said perfer grass love the new turf. The point of the money and expenses was to make my point that the player weren't complaining about the turf, the old folks were complaining about the money. BTW all the Bills LOVED the turf at Wash U. when they played Seattle several years back. NO COMPLAITS by the Pro players

[bduff54]

uncle ralph? he has bewnn known to have a very tight fist

[kgun12]

Your right, but what my point was that I never heard them complain about the turf, I think it was because of the late season games and that frozen ground hurts more.

[bduff54]

maybe, all i'm saying is this. i have heard people say "i would rather play on a team with a grass field" (cliff floyd) and i have never heard anyone say the would rather play on a team with turf

[BillsNYC]

i've heard players complain about turf....only players i've ever heard that like turf are kickers. too bad superbowl 25 wasn't on turf....

[Mad Bomber]

Astroturf sucks - no sports should be played on it.

The Ralph's turf looks pretty, but is a killer. The traction is TOO good. Players' feet get planted in it, and if they get hit, you see lots of lower leg injuries - sprains, high sprains and worse. It makes me worry about M Williams' knee...

I've posted a number of times about how much I hate the Ralphs' turf, but since it's only 2 years old, there's no way it's going to be replaced in the foreseeable future. I'd like to see field turf at the Ralph. The question is: how well does that stuff hold up to snowplowing?

[thisiskeith12]

The new synthetic grass that they came out with is pretty spiffy. I haven't played on it, but a lot of people say it's better than real grass. Personally I would prefer either, just not turf. Kgun made some pretty good points, he's basically trying to say that there are many injuries on grass that were not pointed out. I did not know there were that many injuries on grass, and I thank Kgun for pointing that out.

[WagonCircler]

Hello, EVERYBODY, turf IS grass. The stuff on the field at the Ralph is ARTIFICIAL TURF, a.k.a. Astro Turf (first used in the Astrodome). When you go to a seafood restaurant, you might order a "Surf & Turf"; do you suppose that will get you a Lobster and a steak from a cow that was raised in a football stadium?

[colin]

Turf makes the game faster. I like turf.