First round QBs

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I found a decent article on the 1st round QBs.

http://www.twominutewarning.com/qbrd1.htm

More of a fantasy football article, but what the heck.

[Tatonka]

wow... 25 qbs.. and out of those 25, only 6 that i would consider worth the first round "franchise" pick.

pretty scarey.. it could well turn out that all three of the guys we are freaking over could suck major ass and guys like losman, smoker and harris could be the real steals.

[Mr. Cynical]

The stat analysis part of the article is kinda weak, but just looking at the list sends shivvers up my back.

90 Andre Ware...BUST
90 Jeff George...Journeyman
91 Dan McGwire...WHO? BUST
91 Todd Marinovich...BUST
92 David Klingler...BUST
92 Tommy Maddox...Tweener
93 Drew Bledsoe...you know what's coming....BUST! ;)
93 Rick Mirer...BUST
94 Heath Shuler...BUST
94 Trent Dilfer...Average
95 Steve McNair...STUD
95 Kerry Collins...Average
97 Jim Druckenmiller...Average
98 Peyton Manning...STUD
98 Ryan Leaf...BUST
99 Tim Couch...Average
99 Donovan McNabb...STUD
99 Akili Smith..BUST
99 Cade McNown...BUST
99 Daunte Culpepper...STUD
00 Chad Pennington...mini-STUD
01 Michael Vick...STUD
02 David Carr...Still early, but stock rising
02 Joey Harrington...Still early, but stock falling
02 Patrick Ramsey...Still early, but stock rising

So if you really look at this list, you have 6 franchise QBs out of 25. (Kinda funny, Tonk - I didn't read your post until I did this list and we both came up with the same number. Although I don't know if we both mean the same 6). There could be 9 if the last 3 pan out over time.

So, 6 out of 25 means there is a 24% chance we'll get a STUD if we pick in the 1st round.

Not good. :couch:

[BuffaloRanger]

Verying degrees of bust. Drew has been a franchise QB.

To lump him with the busts isn't acurate.

KAL123 - why do you ignore the fact that the QB you think is such garbage holds 10 franchise records. How do you explain that??

[STAMPY]

Originally posted by kal123
The stat analysis part of the article is kinda weak, but just looking at the list sends shivvers up my back.

90 Andre Ware...BUST
90 Jeff George...Journeyman
91 Dan McGwire...WHO? BUST
91 Todd Marinovich...BUST
92 David Klingler...BUST
92 Tommy Maddox...Tweener
93 Drew Bledsoe...you know what's coming....BUST! ;)
93 Rick Mirer...BUST
94 Heath Shuler...BUST
94 Trent Dilfer...Average
95 Steve McNair...STUD
95 Kerry Collins...Average
97 Jim Druckenmiller...Average
98 Peyton Manning...STUD
98 Ryan Leaf...BUST
99 Tim Couch...Average
99 Donovan McNabb...STUD
99 Akili Smith..BUST
99 Cade McNown...BUST
99 Daunte Culpepper...STUD
00 Chad Pennington...mini-STUD
01 Michael Vick...STUD
02 David Carr...Still early, but stock rising
02 Joey Harrington...Still early, but stock falling
02 Patrick Ramsey...Still early, but stock rising

So if you really look at this list, you have 6 franchise QBs out of 25. (Kinda funny, Tonk - I didn't read your post until I did this list and we both came up with the same number. Although I don't know if we both mean the same 6). There could be 9 if the last 3 pan out over time.

So, 6 out of 25 means there is a 24% chance we'll get a STUD if we pick in the 1st round.

Not good. :couch:

thinking that tim couch is better then drew bledsoe is ******ed

[STAMPY]

trent dilfer too... i kno he won a championship but i think ray lewis and the ravens defense kinda helped hmmmmmmm

[STAMPY]

kal are you related to bills7 :)
ya both are tim couch sponsors

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by BuffaloRanger
KAL123 - why do you ignore the fact that the QB you think is such garbage holds 10 franchise records. How do you explain that??

I still say personal grudge. :shakeno:

[Michael82]

Originally posted by The_Philster
I still say personal grudge. :shakeno:

I agree! :shakeno:

[The Spaz]

LMAO You put Jim Drunkenmiller as average but you're about to say Drew Bledose's career is going to become a bust :rofl::lol:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by BuffaloRanger
why do you ignore the fact that the QB you think is such garbage holds 10 franchise records. How do you explain that??


do me a favor someone.. please post what those 10 franchise records are.. i dont want to break my truce.. so i will stop there.

also, kal.. you could you even consider drunkenmiller a average qb?? average in what sense? average at raping college girls or average at using roids and cocain? because he is definately not average at actually playing qb. he is a 100% bust.

[Dozerdog]

The biggest ones that jump out at me are

Yards in a season- 3842

Yards in a game- 35-of-49 yards for a career-high 463 yards,


The completions and yards in a game tied Ferguson's mark set in Dan Mariono's debut in 1983,

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
The biggest ones that jump out at me are

Yards in a season- He's the only Bills QB to crack 4,000

Yards in a game- the Minnesota game he tossed for something like 450 yards


shame yards dont = wins, or else bledsoe would be a great qb.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Tatonka
shame yards dont = wins, or else bledsoe would be a great qb.

You are correct- defenses do.

If we had the 2002 offense and the 2003 defense we would have been 12-4.


Getting your pot shots in under the truce? As the UN peacekeeper, I'm going to sit here and do nothing until you comply!

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Tatonka
shame yards dont = wins, or else bledsoe would be a great qb.

teams win games...no QB does it alone...not Kelly, not Montana, not Marino, not Unitas, NO ONE. Personally, I don't care so much for the stats since they don't show everything involved...but he wouldn't still be in the league if he were as bad as some try to make out.

[Michael82]

Enjoyed a phenomenal first season with the Bills…started all 16 games at QB and set 10 franchise records including single-season marks for yards, attempts and completions, as well as 300-yard games ….earned his fourth career Pro Bowl selection and his first since 1997; also went to the Pro Bowl following the 1994, '96 and '97 seasons with New England and became the third quarterback Bills QB history to earn a Pro Bowl selection, joining Jim Kelly (5) and Doug Flutie (1)…ranked second in the NFL in passing yards (4,359) and attempts (610) behind only Rich Gannon (4,689 & 618) and his 375 completions trailed only Gannon (418) and Peyton Manning (392)…only Gannon (10) had more 300-yard passing games…threw 24 TD passes, the most by a Bills QB since Jim Kelly had a club-record 33 in 1991…with two rushing touchdowns in '02, matched his career total heading into the season and became the [first Bills QB with two in a season since Jim Kelly in 1996…topped 400 passing yards in 2 of his first 5 games with the Bills (there were only two in franchise history before '02)…

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/player_bio.cfm?player_id=4718

[Tatonka]

it is not a pot shot at drew.. and it wasnt negative.

everyone on this board will agree that bledsoe is not a great qb. the most diehard fan of his on this board will only say he is a good qb at this point.

drew has always been good at throwing for big chunks of yardage.

i was simply making a point that if attempts and completions and yardage were the things that won games, he would be a GREAT qb. unfortunately all his records revolve around those things. all 10 of the "franchise records".

the records that i would consider an indicator of a great qb would be records that involve Touchdowns, Completion percentage, passes w/ out a int, lowest amount of sacks taken.

i dont feel that is backhanding bledsoe by saying that. sorry. i was very diplomatic. :D

[Tatonka]

thanks for the numbers mikey. i am done.

[ryjam282]

Originally posted by kal123
The stat analysis part of the article is kinda weak, but just looking at the list sends shivvers up my back.

90 Andre Ware...BUST
90 Jeff George...Journeyman
91 Dan McGwire...WHO? BUST
91 Todd Marinovich...BUST
92 David Klingler...BUST
92 Tommy Maddox...Tweener
93 Drew Bledsoe...you know what's coming....BUST! ;)
93 Rick Mirer...BUST
94 Heath Shuler...BUST
94 Trent Dilfer...Average
95 Steve McNair...STUD
95 Kerry Collins...Average
97 Jim Druckenmiller...Average
98 Peyton Manning...STUD
98 Ryan Leaf...BUST
99 Tim Couch...Average
99 Donovan McNabb...STUD
99 Akili Smith..BUST
99 Cade McNown...BUST
99 Daunte Culpepper...STUD
00 Chad Pennington...mini-STUD
01 Michael Vick...STUD
02 David Carr...Still early, but stock rising
02 Joey Harrington...Still early, but stock falling
02 Patrick Ramsey...Still early, but stock rising

So if you really look at this list, you have 6 franchise QBs out of 25. (Kinda funny, Tonk - I didn't read your post until I did this list and we both came up with the same number. Although I don't know if we both mean the same 6). There could be 9 if the last 3 pan out over time.

So, 6 out of 25 means there is a 24% chance we'll get a STUD if we pick in the 1st round.

Not good. :couch:

But, just think how great it would be if we got one of those 24% though...It is a risk but all picks are. Every pick in every round is a gamble. If it pays off, we are that much better for it.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by ryjam282
But, just think how great it would be if we got one of those 24% though...It is a risk but all picks are. Every pick in every round is a gamble. If it pays off, we are that much better for it.

i agree... if either big ben or rivers is there.. they are worth the risk. can you imagine what it would be like to have pennington or vick right now?

[Tatonka]

:calm:

[Michael82]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i agree... if either big ben or rivers is there.. they are worth the risk. can you imagine what it would be like to have pennington or vick right now?

Vick is overrated and I think he will never be the same Quarterback again, since that injury.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Mikey82
Vick is overrated and I think he will never be the same Quarterback again, since that injury.

whatever.. your insane..

but mcgahee is gonna be a good rb? his injury was 1000x worse..

michael vick, when healthy, owns people all day long.

[The_Philster]

:D
Originally posted by Tatonka
your insane..

You just figured that out? :scratch:

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by Mikey82


Vick is overrated and I think he will never be the same Quarterback again, since that injury.

Ok ask any defensive coordinator in the league which QB they dislike going up against the most and Ill bet most of them say Vick b.c you cant touch the guy. You blitz him he scrambles, you drop back in coverage he can scramble. Play basic defense and his arm is enough to beat you. Containing him is a hard thing to do. The Falcons will pull a major turnaround next season with Vick and Price for a full year I think they compete for the NFC South and the NFC Wildcard. I also live in ATL so Ive seen alot more of his games then the rest of you. At least since hes been in the pros.

[helmetguy]

I'll agree with you on the scrambling/elusiveness factor with Vick, DB. As for arm/accuracy, I see an awful lot of Jeff George in him. He's young, so that may change.

[Michael82]

Originally posted by helmetguy
I'll agree with you on the scrambling/elusiveness factor with Vick, DB. As for arm/accuracy, I see an awful lot of Jeff George in him. He's young, so that may change.

I agree. His scrambling can kill someone, but his arm doesn't scare me at all.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by DraftBoy
Ok ask any defensive coordinator in the league which QB they dislike going up against the most and Ill bet most of them say Vick b.c you cant touch the guy. You blitz him he scrambles, you drop back in coverage he can scramble. Play basic defense and his arm is enough to beat you. Containing him is a hard thing to do. The Falcons will pull a major turnaround next season with Vick and Price for a full year I think they compete for the NFC South and the NFC Wildcard. I also live in ATL so Ive seen alot more of his games then the rest of you. At least since hes been in the pros.

well put. he is going to be such a huge star.


Originally posted by Mikey82
I agree. His scrambling can kill someone, but his arm doesn't scare me at all.

his arm is as strong as any arm in the nfl.. all he needs to do is work on his accuracy a bit more.. which he will.

[thefixer74]

Originally posted by kal123
The stat analysis part of the article is kinda weak, but just looking at the list sends shivvers up my back.

90 Andre Ware...BUST
90 Jeff George...Journeyman
91 Dan McGwire...WHO? BUST
91 Todd Marinovich...BUST
92 David Klingler...BUST
92 Tommy Maddox...Tweener
93 Drew Bledsoe...you know what's coming....BUST! ;)
93 Rick Mirer...BUST
94 Heath Shuler...BUST
94 Trent Dilfer...Average
95 Steve McNair...STUD
95 Kerry Collins...Average
97 Jim Druckenmiller...Average
98 Peyton Manning...STUD
98 Ryan Leaf...BUST
99 Tim Couch...Average
99 Donovan McNabb...STUD
99 Akili Smith..BUST
99 Cade McNown...BUST
99 Daunte Culpepper...STUD
00 Chad Pennington...mini-STUD
01 Michael Vick...STUD
02 David Carr...Still early, but stock rising
02 Joey Harrington...Still early, but stock falling
02 Patrick Ramsey...Still early, but stock rising

So if you really look at this list, you have 6 franchise QBs out of 25. (Kinda funny, Tonk - I didn't read your post until I did this list and we both came up with the same number. Although I don't know if we both mean the same 6). There could be 9 if the last 3 pan out over time.

So, 6 out of 25 means there is a 24% chance we'll get a STUD if we pick in the 1st round.

Not good. :couch:




Its hard to say that Harrington's stock is falling and Ramsey,who lost his job his stock is rising.I think Joey will have a good second year with Moch as his coach.

[Mr. Cynical]

:hitself: It was late when I posted and I didn't realize that I had Druckenmiller as Average. I wanted to say BUST. :homer:

C'mon guys..... I said Drew was a BUST with tongue in cheek. *Obviously* he is not a BUST, but nor is he a STUD. He is Average IMO, and his 11 year career stats support that assessment.

As for Couch, yeah...I may have given him the benefit of the doubt as being Average, but I can't yet say BUST either. But I'll give you that he is probably closer to BUST than Average.

Mikey - Vick is ridiculous good. He is still amazing and will blow people away this year. His arm strength is also crazy...I remember once seeing him launch one 60 yards with a "flick" of his wrist. As Tonk said, he will work on the accuracy over time hopefully.