My crystal ball for saturday around 1:25PM says

[L.A. Playa]

Paul Tagliabue walks to the podium and says "We have a trade The Detroit Lions trade the #6 pick in the draft to the Buffalo Bills for Travis Henry and The Buffalo Bills select with the # 6 Pick Ben Roethsliberger QB..........The n later with the #13 pick the Buffalo Bills Select Lee Evans WR

Rd 2 Ben Troupe TE Florida remember our WR coach coached him in college and recruited him

Pretty damn good foursome going into the future

Ben, Mc Gahee , Evans and Troupe all given up is Henry

[Dozerdog]

Gimmie some of what you're smoking... good stuff!:mex:


1- Lions would be better off just Drafting Jackson- he's a real reach at the 6 spot, but better than getting ripped off.


2- Evans is not a 13th overall pick. Waaayyyyyy to high


3- Troupe is not a 2nd round pick. Wayyyy to low, He's gone in Rd 1

[RedEyE]

That's more of a nightmare than a premonition.

[L.A. Playa]

only a nightmare for the lovers of the overrated henry

[Hermanator21]

How is Travis overrated?????

[L.A. Playa]

Travis Henry is the same player as Terry Miller thank God we have Mc Gahee his 15 minutes are up

[eyedog]

C,mon Terry Miller ? He isn't OJ or even Thurman but he's ten times better than Miller.

[The Natrix]

He's not overrated, I like him a lot, but if I'm sitting there drinking a beer and NOT wearing my draft day cap (stupid NFL.com) I will not be dissapointed at all if the announcement is made, come the #6 pick.

[L.A. Playa]

Ok maybe Greg Bell, I just dont think though he has alot of heart that Travis hits the holes fast enough and makes quick enough decisions he will break some tackles but cant bust out the long one he is serviceable but a dime a dozen back my problem is his lack of confidence in himself great heart but Mc Gahee is the real deal and will prove it

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by pmacla
only a nightmare for the lovers of the overrated henry

And McGahee has accrued how many yards in the NFL thus far?

Dishing Henry now would be taking a step backward. The main issue with the offense last season was the the misuse of the running game. We must test McGahee first, before deciding to put Henry up on the trading block.

[L.A. Playa]

All of the hEnry supporters are short sighted Henry will never have more value than right now, the how many yards does Mc Gahee have is a bullcrap answer if Mc Gahee never tore up his knee and came out last year and the Bills traded Henry to get the #5 pick all of you would be drooling he has had 18 months to heal from the injury and will be better than ever and will dominate with speed power and elusiveness, tell me you would be mad at the Bills trading for the rights to a pre injured Mc Gahee

[McBFLO]

Originally posted by pmacla
All of the hEnry supporters are short sighted Henry will never have more value than right now, the how many yards does Mc Gahee have is a bullcrap answer if Mc Gahee never tore up his knee and came out last year and the Bills traded Henry to get the #5 pick all of you would be drooling he has had 18 months to heal from the injury and will be better than ever and will dominate with speed power and elusiveness, tell me you would be mad at the Bills trading for the rights to a pre injured Mc Gahee


I'm starting to think the same way...nice post!

[Bled2Hen]

WOWWWW!!!!! you guys don't read anything, do you? Mike Mularky is currently installing a system where T-Hen and W-Mc are in the backfield together! T-Hen is going no where, he is not overated, and he will be in a Bills Uniform next year, and I hope if anything that we get rid of Mcgahee than get rid of T-Hen.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by pmacla
All of the hEnry supporters are short sighted Henry will never have more value than right now, the how many yards does Mc Gahee have is a bullcrap answer if Mc Gahee never tore up his knee and came out last year and the Bills traded Henry to get the #5 pick all of you would be drooling he has had 18 months to heal from the injury and will be better than ever and will dominate with speed power and elusiveness, tell me you would be mad at the Bills trading for the rights to a pre injured Mc Gahee


And if McGahee sucks next year, watch the McGahee supporters turn tail and complain about how Henry shouldn't have been traded. How we will need to draft a 1,300 yard a season back in the upcoming draft.

There is absolutely no reason to trade up this year. This draft is thick with talent and Buffalo would be better off staying at 13, if not trading down themselves and obtaining more picks.

Finally, we have an offensive coach stating that he will commit to the run, saving his QB and find new ways to keep the ball on the ground. Henry had over 1,400 yards 2 years ago, and 1,300 last season, without a run mineded offensive coordinator. What else do you guys want out of a running back?

Hey, if McGahee pans out this season, then I'll sing a different tune, but not until then. If Henry bust another 1,300 yard season next year, what do think Henry's value will be then?

If you absolutey have to trade a RB this season, trade the mystery man, McGahee. His abilities are more at question then Henry. Perhaps his value has peaked as well.

Besides, why draft up and take Big Ben, when there is a possibilty that Rivers could be there at 13? They nearly have the same draft rating, and if he's not there, oh well. The draft next year is going to have a thicker QB turnout then this season. More options in 2005.

[L.A. Playa]

Rivers wont be there and Im not a big draft a qb now guy but I say get rid of Henry while his value is high if Mc Gahee bombs ill be the first one to say hey I was wrong wait till next year he will prove you wrong

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by pmacla
Paul Tagliabue walks to the podium and says "We have a trade The Detroit Lions trade the #6 pick in the draft to the Buffalo Bills for Travis Henry and The Buffalo Bills select with the # 6 Pick Ben Roethsliberger QB..........The n later with the #13 pick the Buffalo Bills Select Lee Evans WR

Rd 2 Ben Troupe TE Florida remember our WR coach coached him in college and recruited him

Pretty damn good foursome going into the future

Ben, Mc Gahee , Evans and Troupe all given up is Henry


Originally posted by pmacla
....Im not a big draft a qb now guy ...


You based your entire thread on trading Henry to move up and draft Rothelisberger. Now your turning tail?

[L.A. Playa]

Nope I have heard too many rumors from several sources that is the way The Bills wanna go not my favorite move I favor trading Henry straight up to the Raiders for the # 2 and selecting Gallery

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by pmacla
Rivers wont be there and Im not a big draft a qb now guy but I say get rid of Henry while his value is high if Mc Gahee bombs ill be the first one to say hey I was wrong wait till next year he will prove you wrong

While we're at it, we can trade a few other productive guys "while their value is highest" to get even MORE picks! Yeah! That's it! That's the ticket! Then, if they turn out pretty okay, we can trade all of THEM for MORE draft picks next year, and the year after, while THEIR value is still high!


*note to self: Call TD first thing in the morning with this idea. We might end up with 20 first day picks!*

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by helmetguy
While we're at it, we can trade a few other productive guys "while their value is highest" to get even MORE picks! Yeah! That's it! That's the ticket! Then, if they turn out pretty okay, we can trade all of THEM for MORE draft picks next year, and the year after, while THEIR value is still high!


*note to self: Call TD first thing in the morning with this idea. We might end up with 20 first day picks!*

Think we could get some pretty top talent out of Moulds, Spikes, and Clements?

[L.A. Playa]

Originally posted by helmetguy


While we're at it, we can trade a few other productive guys "while their value is highest" to get even MORE picks! Yeah! That's it! That's the ticket! Then, if they turn out pretty okay, we can trade all of THEM for MORE draft picks next year, and the year after, while THEIR value is still high!


*note to self: Call TD first thing in the morning with this idea. We might end up with 20 first day picks!*

Too bad the only position we have the luxury to do this with is RB face it Henry will be gone soon great heart not enough talent or speed and dont throw out the yardage crap he is not an elite back in the NFL serviceable yes MC GAHEE is elite trade Henry while teams think he maybe elite not once everyone knows he needs to be traded think think people the goal os to improve your team not keep your favorite players around

[juice]

Originally posted by Bled2Hen
WOWWWW!!!!! you guys don't read anything, do you? Mike Mularky is currently installing a system where T-Hen and W-Mc are in the backfield together! T-Hen is going no where, he is not overated, and he will be in a Bills Uniform next year, and I hope if anything that we get rid of Mcgahee than get rid of T-Hen.

LINK? WM and TH in the same backfield.. Just a few Photo ops in camp is all i've seen.

[The_Philster]

:rofl: McGahee's not an elite back before he's taken snaps even in training camp.

[L.A. Playa]

Mc Gahee will be I kinda hope the Bills trade him so he can come back and shove it in all your faces the guy is determined and will be an elite back keep laughing while Travis coughs up another ball

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by pmacla
Mc Gahee will be I kinda hope the Bills trade him so he can come back and shove it in all your faces the guy is determined and will be an elite back keep laughing while Travis coughs up another ball

I hope he will be an elite back...but ever heard that saying about not counting your chickens before they've hatched? This ain't college ball and we don't know if he'll be a great one in the NFL. It's not a case of bashing him...we all want him to succeed. But we want to be sure before we toss away a proven back...something that McGahee most certainly is not.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by The_Philster
I hope he will be an elite back...but ever heard that saying about not counting your chickens before they've hatched? This ain't college ball and we don't know if he'll be a great one in the NFL. It's not a case of bashing him...we all want him to succeed. But we want to be sure before we toss away a proven back...something that McGahee most certainly is not.

But, don't you see the logic? We already know what Henry CAN do and has done. POTENTIALLY, McGahee could do better. Therefore, it HAS to be a "no-brainer" to give up what you've got for what you HOPE you'll get. Makes all the sense in the world to me, and history is on my side here-I mean, we got Tom Flores for Daryl Lamonica once, and look how good THAT turned out!

[mypoorfriendme]

for all we know, mcgahee may be the next kijana carter

[L.A. Playa]

what has henry really proven?? he doesnt hit the hole quick enough??? he is fumble prone??? he doesnt make quick decisions??? he isnt a good blocker ???? not a great reciver??? cant throw???? and cant break a long run???? yep he has proven all of that serviceable not great not elite midlle of the pack runner in the league right now

better than henry
ricky williams
corey dillon
jamal lewis
fred taylor
edgerin james
clintin portis
ladanlian tomlinson
priest holmes
marshall faulk
stepehen davis
alexander
ahman green
michael bennet
duece mcallister
Im sure I could name a few more so sure Henry has proven alot keep him in Buffalo trade Willis I will root for Willis he is a stand out guy and will succeed

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by helmetguy
But, don't you see the logic? We already know what Henry CAN do and has done. POTENTIALLY, McGahee could do better. Therefore, it HAS to be a "no-brainer" to give up what you've got for what you HOPE you'll get. Makes all the sense in the world to me, and history is on my side here-I mean, we got Tom Flores for Daryl Lamonica once, and look how good THAT turned out!
:jawdrop: You're right...that was the best trade in our history








:rofl: I couldn't say that with a straight face, could you?

[helmetguy]

All those knocks you've put on TH were pretty much the same knocks they put on another Buffalo tailback. I wonder what we coulda gotten for that guy. Instead, we just let him hang on, and on and on. Damn, if TH has THAT much trade value, I can only imagine how much we coulda gotten for that other guy. Help me out, Phil. Who was that guy? His name escapes me right now, but I remember Kenny Davis was his backup.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by The_Philster
:jawdrop: You're right...that was the best trade in our history








:rofl: I couldn't say that with a straight face, could you?

Still trying to catch my breath! My ribs hurt from laughing so hard!

[L.A. Playa]

Now thats just insane to compare henry to thurman henry couldnt hold thurman jock thurman knew when to make a move and hit the hole quicker than henry could ever dream of plus thurman had football smarts something henry just doesnt have he is serviceable not better than mc gahee and davis could never ever be compared to mc gahee all your arguements are weak i understand you like the guy so i hope you get your wish and he stays so you can see mc gahee send his butt to the bench lmao

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by pmacla
Now thats just insane to compare henry to thurman henry couldnt hold thurman jock thurman knew when to make a move and hit the hole quicker than henry could ever dream of plus thurman had football smarts something henry just doesnt have he is serviceable not better than mc gahee and davis could never ever be compared to mc gahee all your arguements are weak i understand you like the guy so i hope you get your wish and he stays so you can see mc gahee send his butt to the bench lmao

I don't think anyone is really comparing Thurman and Travis but one thing you seem to forget is that Thurman had All-Pros around him on offense..Kelly, Reed, Lofton, Hull, Wolford, Ballard. Has Travis had that? :scratch: It's a team game and every player needs help to succeed. Considering the amount of help Travis hasn't gotten, he's done an excellent job.
And for the last time, we don't hate McGahee. Talking like we do, just because we want to see him play before we proclaim him great, is just stupid :shakeno:

[juice]

Henry isn't BUILT for a PWR Run game...Aside from constant injuries when he gets hit by LB's he tends to cough up the ball.. looks to be out on his feet at times.. also lacks the speed and quickness to get upfield and turn the corner, results in alot of negative yardage plays.

[L.A. Playa]

I understand that but the NFL is a gamble and I would rather gamble on Mc Gahee and get another pick while Henry's value is high Dillon going to NE just made Henry hotter than before and for the good of the team trade him now the move could backfire but would you rather get a 5th rounder next year when his value is low ????

[helmetguy]

Liking the guy has nothing to do with it. I have no clue as to what McGahee CAN do yet, nor do you. I've seen far too many "elite" college backs become average or below NFL backs. Henry is in no way a Thurman Thomas, that is true, but Thomas was also the seventh or eighth back chosen in his particular draft. Using your theory, we should have used him to buy extra picks as well. With Henry, we know what we have, we don't have to put any unrealistic expectations on him, and what he does, he does very well for us. I'm hoping McGahee will, too. However, until McGahee DOES exhibit "elite back" qualities on the NFL level, he's just another inexperienced NFL rookie.

[juice]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Liking the guy has nothing to do with it. I have no clue as to what McGahee CAN do yet, nor do you. I've seen far too many "elite" college backs become average or below NFL backs. Henry is in now way a Thurman Thomas, that is true, but Thomas was also the seventh or eighth back chosen in his particular draft. Using your theory, we should have used him to buy extra picks as well. With Henry, we know what we have, we don't have to put any unrealistic expectations on him, and what he does, he does very well for us. I'm hoping McGahee will, too. However, until McGahee DOES exhibit "elite back" qualities on the NFL level, he's just another inexperienced NFL rookie.

What we have in TH is a fumble-prone RB that lacks breakaway speed... But has good trade value... Better unload him quick before he goes into one of his fumbleing spells this year and we end up getting nothing for him next year.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by juice
What we have in TH is a fumble-prone RB that lacks breakaway speed... But has good trade value... Better unload him quick before he goes into one of his fumbleing spells this year and we end up getting nothing for him next year.

If he's so fumble-prone and is constantly injured, has little speed and quickness like you say, how much would we get out of him? Let's just cut him altogether since he sucks so bad. :cynic:

[kdharge]

I've been watching the lons board and there is nothing that suggest that they are as high on Travis as we are. In fact they are pissed about the 7th rounder we got for O.Gary. Their board seems to think if they do trade it will be for the 13th plus Henry to move to the 6th position (which i would say kiss my a$$)

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by juice
What we have in TH is a fumble-prone RB that lacks breakaway speed... But has good trade value... Better unload him quick before he goes into one of his fumbleing spells this year and we end up getting nothing for him next year.

Oh c'mon. :rolleyes: That's just sick.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Oh c'mon. :rolleyes: That's just sick.

If he's as bad as juice says, why haven't we cut him already? :scratch:

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Oh c'mon. :rolleyes: That's just sick.

Don't try to figure out that logic, Red. It'll give you a headache!

[juice]

Originally posted by The_Philster
If he's so fumble-prone and is constantly injured, has little speed and quickness like you say, how much would we get out of him? Let's just cut him altogether since he sucks so bad. :cynic:

He has good trade value because there is knowone left after the Dillon deal... Maybe the 6th pick for Travis and a #2 next year.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by juice
He has good trade value because there is knowone left after the Dillon deal... Maybe the 6th pick for Travis and a #2 next year.

He sucks, though...we'd be lucky to get a bag of peanuts for him

[juice]

Originally posted by The_Philster
He sucks, though...we'd be lucky to get a bag of peanuts for him

He's good but he's small, kind of slow,and has a fumbleing problem at times... He didn't struggle too bad last year though.. but if the problem reoccurs it will drop his trade value to near nothing.. a sixth rder.

[helmetguy]

Let me get this straight, Juice: Henry is too slow to hit holes, has no breakaway speed, can't catch passes out of the backfield, can't block, and fumbles a lot, but STILL has great trade value because no other back is available? I'm sure that, with all that alleged ineptitude, there's a club out there just dying to overpay to get him. Is that an accurate assessment? As long as we're trying to con other clubs, let's see who might be desparate for OL help and offer up Pucillo. Hell, the phone will be ringing off the hook!

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Let me get this straight, Juice: Henry is too slow to hit holes, has no breakaway speed, can't catch passes out of the backfield, can't block, and fumbles a lot, but STILL has great trade value because no other back is available? I'm sure that, with all that alleged ineptitude, there's a club out there just dying to overpay to get him. Is that an accurate assessment? As long as we're trying to con other clubs, let's see who might be desparate for OL help and offer up Pucillo. Hell, the phone will be ringing off the hook!

maybe the Chargers will give up the #1 overall? :idunno:

[juice]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Oh c'mon. :rolleyes: That's just sick.

But do you agree?

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by pmacla
Nope I have heard too many rumors from several sources that is the way The Bills wanna go not my favorite move I favor trading Henry straight up to the Raiders for the # 2 and selecting Gallery
I just saw this. You wanna trade away our offensive MVP for an OT when we already have 3 starting caliber OTs? :jawdrop:

[juice]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Let me get this straight, Juice: Henry is too slow to hit holes, has no breakaway speed, can't catch passes out of the backfield, can't block, and fumbles a lot, but STILL has great trade value because no other back is available? I'm sure that, with all that alleged ineptitude, there's a club out there just dying to overpay to get him. Is that an accurate assessment? As long as we're trying to con other clubs, let's see who might be desparate for OL help and offer up Pucillo. Hell, the phone will be ringing off the hook!

Your mixing my posts with another poster but no your right he also cant block.. He's OK as a reciever.. But because he has alot of heart and was willing to play with a Broken leg and other serious injuries still managed near 1400 yds each of the last 3 seasons. to some team that type of couragous effort might be worth dealing.

[helmetguy]

So why do we want some other club to have that kind of heart and production before we really know what we have in McGahee? Anyone we would get with the higher pick will be just as much a mystery as McGahee. After the last three seasons of "Moobsball" we should be looking for answers, not raising more questions, don't you think?

[juice]

At 6-10 there are alot of Questions that have to be addressed... and as far as another team having him well the gains, I think, would outweigh the loss.

I thought we needed a QB of the future with that high pick, I'd take Phil or Ben... how about you?

[RedEyE]

Baltimore should trade Jamal Lewis too. He had 8 fumbles last season. And don't let me get started on Ahman Green, and Deuce McAllister, fumblin, bumblin, stumblin......

boy oh boy, Phil, H - Guy...what have you guys been thinking? ;)


Seriously though, I do rescpect juice and pmacala idea to better the team, I just question their logic. I'm not going to ridicule someone for having an opinion.

[helmetguy]

Getting a top QB would be great, provided that we don't expect him to start and carry the load right away. Whether it is Bledsoe under center having another tough year, or a green rookie there, there's no way I'd compound the uncertainty by trading Henry. There's a lot to be said for stability and experience.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Baltimore should trade Jamal Lewis too. He had 8 fumbles last season. And don't let me get started on Ahman Green, and Deuce McAllister, fumblin, bumblin, stumblin......

boy oh boy, Phil, H - Guy...what have you guys been thinking? ;)

Great minds think alike ;)

Originally posted by RedEyE
Seriously though, I do rescpect juice and pmacala idea to better the team, I just question their logic. I'm not going to ridicule someone for having an opinion.

Same here..but the whole idea is sickening. :puke:

[chernobylwraiths]

I don't understand how Henry can be slow, a fumbler, and can't block but is worth a top ten pick and maybe more? Plus, the Bengals just dealt Dillon, who is supposedly much better than Henry, for a second rounder and we are supposed to get more for Henry even though he is worse?

The saddest part if all this happened would be that the entire offense would be put in the hands of a first year RB who hasn't touched the field and is a huge question mark. IF he fails, the Bills will have no RB, possilby no QB if they get Gallery like the one guy suggested because Drew would certainly be gone, TD might be fired, Mike Mularkey will have absolutely NO weapons and his offense will stink, MM will then be fired because he was brought in as an offensive mind and the offense stinks, and we will have to endure about three more years of terrible records while we start over from scratch and rebuild AGAIN.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Great minds think alike ;)



How DARE you speak about me like that? MIND? What mind? You're kidding, right?

You should know better than that by now!

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
I don't understand how Henry can be slow, a fumbler, and can't block but is worth a top ten pick and maybe more? Plus, the Bengals just dealt Dillon, who is supposedly much better than Henry, for a second rounder and we are supposed to get more for Henry even though he is worse?

The saddest part if all this happened would be that the entire offense would be put in the hands of a first year RB who hasn't touched the field and is a huge question mark. IF he fails, the Bills will have no RB, possilby no QB if they get Gallery like the one guy suggested because Drew would certainly be gone, TD might be fired, Mike Mularkey will have absolutely NO weapons and his offense will stink, MM will then be fired because he was brought in as an offensive mind and the offense stinks, and we will have to endure about three more years of terrible records while we start over from scratch and rebuild AGAIN.

:bf1: Excellent post..brought a tear to my eye

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by helmetguy
How DARE you speak about me like that? MIND? What mind? You're kidding, right?

Well...I already knew I had a great mind...just figured my brilliance was rubbing off on you is all. :idunno:
BTW, you get the email I sent you? Nighttrain seemed psyched about us coming out.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Well...I already knew I had a great mind...just figured my brilliance was rubbing off on you is all. :idunno:
BTW, you get the email I sent you? Nighttrain seemed psyched about us coming out.

YOUR brilliance? Sure! Okay! Gotcha, Scooter!

Got the email. We'll talk when I get there Friday (about 5-5:30).

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by helmetguy
YOUR brilliance? Sure! Okay! Gotcha, Scooter!

Got the email. We'll talk when I get there Friday (about 5-5:30).

sounds good...we'll be meeting up with mush Friday night. :up:

[elltrain22]

not very realitic

[chernobylwraiths]

Originally posted by pmacla
Paul Tagliabue walks to the podium and says "We have a trade The Detroit Lions trade the #6 pick in the draft to the Buffalo Bills for Travis Henry and The Buffalo Bills select with the # 6 Pick Ben Roethsliberger QB..........The n later with the #13 pick the Buffalo Bills Select Lee Evans WR

Rd 2 Ben Troupe TE Florida remember our WR coach coached him in college and recruited him

Pretty damn good foursome going into the future

Ben, Mc Gahee , Evans and Troupe all given up is Henry

Your crystal ball is very fast. Usually by that time the team with the second pick is just getting their clock started after all the hoopla with the first pick. I don' t think the sixth pick will be until around 2 at the earliest.

[STAMPY]

"People never appreciate what they have, till it's gone"... go ahead trade Travis, and hurt our franchise, i don't wanna here any of you guys changing your tune if Willis is nothing but mediocre and never gets over that injury. Just eat your crow

[thefixer74]

Talk about fumbles...

Jamal Lewis-6
Ahman Green-5
Ricky Williams-5
Deuce McAllister-4
Fred Taylor-4
Stephen Davis-3
Shaun Alexander-3
TRAVIS HENRY-3


That means that only Tomlinson,Portis,and Holmes fumbled less than Henry,and he had torn rib cartlege and a broken leg.

Thats the top 10,Think of how many yards he would have if Kevin Killdrive would have ran the ball more.We don't know if WM's knee will hold up to 350 carries a year,we can only hope.

[Throne Logic]

juice and pmacla:

Using your arguments, this is what I'm hearing from you:

Reguarding Trade Value:
Corey Dillon is a better back than Henry (from pmacla, page 2).

Corey Dillon fetched a 2nd round pick for Cinci (fact).

Travis Henry is at the peak of his trade value (both juice and pmacla many times).

Therefore, Travis Henry will never command even a #2 pick.

Question How, exactly, do you plan to draft Gallery or Ben R. or any big name player with a pick in the late 2nd round or lower? Do you truly believe anyone in the 3rd round or lower will be worth a trade for Henry?


OTHER THOUGHTS

Reguarding productivity:

Henry has put up nearly 2800 yards over the past 2 seasons.

- He has done this without the benefit of a strong OL.

- He has done this with very predictable play calling.

- He has also done this without playing on third downs.

- He's averaging 4.1 yards per carry (compare to Ricky Williams amongst many others on pmacla's list)

- Henry's in the top 5 with TD's scored in 2004 despite rarely appearing in the Red Zone lineups.

- He still caught 28 passes despite never playing on 3rd down.


Travis is too small, slow, etc. according to you both.

- Travis weighs 215 lbs. Holmes weighs 213 lbs. Portis weighs 205 lbs. Faulk is 211 lbs. E. James is 214 lbs. Why are they not faulted for being too small?

- Henry is physically stronger than most other backs.

- He carried the ball 331 times with a broken leg and messed up ribs for much of this. I think he's proven toughness.

- He's a poor blocker. OK, so how do you judge this on a team who's OL blocking philosophy just plain sucked. He's no worse than Portis and many others.

- He's slow. Well he's averaging 4.1 yards/carry. He doesn't bring those instant 50+ yards, no. But how many do? In fact, his lack of those 50+ yard gains, makes his 4.1 yards/carry that much more impressive. I believe he'd have more of them if the defenses respected the pass just a wee bit.

Reguarding Fumbling:

Travis has fumbling problems, as stated by both of you. This is pretty much a fact, so I won't disagree. As thefixer74 pointed out (page 4), many other backs had fumbling problems. However, despite his improvement last season, I concede that Travis must lower this number.


I have to side with Phil and helmetguy on this one. Trading Henry just isn't the right move. WM needs to prove he can play before he has any value. There is a reason that many businesses don't accept personal checks for transactions. All to frequently those bank accounts don't have as much value as is written on the check.

[The_Philster]

:hail: Throne Logic

[saviorbledsoe]

God I cant wait until this weekend is over so all this moronic speculation is over. Trade Travis??? Waste a number 1 on a QB? Neither will happen. What is the percentage of first round QBs that end up sucking? I bet its higher than some of you realized.

[Throne Logic]

Originally posted by The_Philster
:hail: Throne Logic

The twisted logic finally got the better of me.

venting complete

Now I feel as though I can make it all the way to Saturday.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
LINK? WM and TH in the same backfield.. Just a few Photo ops in camp is all i've seen.

MM said it in his press confrence after the minicamp.. go listen to the audio at bb.com. he said that they have a package they will be using that features both of them.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by thefixer74
Talk about fumbles...

Jamal Lewis-6
Ahman Green-5
Ricky Williams-5
Deuce McAllister-4
Fred Taylor-4
Stephen Davis-3
Shaun Alexander-3
TRAVIS HENRY-3




that is fumbles lost right? what are the actual fumbles lost and recovered numbers? i think that is a better indication of how he stacks up.. i say that because on any given year.. you could lose alot more.. i dont know if i am right here.. but i think henry had 8 fumbles, but 5 were recovered.. the year before he had 11 but lost 8 or something like that.. there is no point to my statement other than the fumbles lost isnt a true indicator on how well he is doing in the fumbling department.


Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
God I cant wait until this weekend is over so all this moronic speculation is over.

something we can agree on. but then you will have the "Start rookie X over Veteran A" threads everywhere.


i dont care about anything else other than i want a premier OLineman.. a Premier DLineman.. and a QB.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Throne Logic
juice and pmacla:

Using your arguments, this is what I'm hearing from you:

Reguarding Trade Value:
Corey Dillon is a better back than Henry (from pmacla, page 2).

Corey Dillon fetched a 2nd round pick for Cinci (fact).

Travis Henry is at the peak of his trade value (both juice and pmacla many times).

Therefore, Travis Henry will never command even a #2 pick.

Question How, exactly, do you plan to draft Gallery or Ben R. or any big name player with a pick in the late 2nd round or lower? Do you truly believe anyone in the 3rd round or lower will be worth a trade for Henry?


OTHER THOUGHTS

Reguarding productivity:

Henry has put up nearly 2800 yards over the past 2 seasons.

- He has done this without the benefit of a strong OL.

- He has done this with very predictable play calling.

- He has also done this without playing on third downs.

- He's averaging 4.1 yards per carry (compare to Ricky Williams amongst many others on pmacla's list)

- Henry's in the top 5 with TD's scored in 2004 despite rarely appearing in the Red Zone lineups.

- He still caught 28 passes despite never playing on 3rd down.


Travis is too small, slow, etc. according to you both.

- Travis weighs 215 lbs. Holmes weighs 213 lbs. Portis weighs 205 lbs. Faulk is 211 lbs. E. James is 214 lbs. Why are they not faulted for being too small?

- Henry is physically stronger than most other backs.

- He carried the ball 331 times with a broken leg and messed up ribs for much of this. I think he's proven toughness.

- He's a poor blocker. OK, so how do you judge this on a team who's OL blocking philosophy just plain sucked. He's no worse than Portis and many others.

- He's slow. Well he's averaging 4.1 yards/carry. He doesn't bring those instant 50+ yards, no. But how many do? In fact, his lack of those 50+ yard gains, makes his 4.1 yards/carry that much more impressive. I believe he'd have more of them if the defenses respected the pass just a wee bit.

Reguarding Fumbling:

Travis has fumbling problems, as stated by both of you. This is pretty much a fact, so I won't disagree. As thefixer74 pointed out (page 4), many other backs had fumbling problems. However, despite his improvement last season, I concede that Travis must lower this number.


I have to side with Phil and helmetguy on this one. Trading Henry just isn't the right move. WM needs to prove he can play before he has any value. There is a reason that many businesses don't accept personal checks for transactions. All to frequently those bank accounts don't have as much value as is written on the check.

Well stated TL :bf1: Well stated!!!

I can tell that football has ingested your brain too. You spelled regarding wrong 3x. The great thing about it was that you spelled it with a U each time. Re - gUard - ing. :rofl:

I'm not picking on you, man. I'm one of the worst spellers of all time. I just thought it was funny that you included an offensive position in your statements.

Again, GREAT POST!! :bf1:

[Dantheman1280]

I am sick of all this ****ing trade talks about henry, he carried the offense last year with a broken leg. What more do you want from the guy his kindeys? I think we need to make an Offcial Travis Henry Truce, So all you Henry Haters can play with your selves!!!

[Tatonka]

dan.. it will be over on saturday.

[Dantheman1280]

THANK YOU GOD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dantheman1280]

Tatonka your going to be on the Radio show tommarow rite?

[juice]

Originally posted by Dantheman1280
I am sick of all this ****ing trade talks about henry, he carried the offense last year with a broken leg. What more do you want from the guy his kindeys? I think we need to make an Offcial Travis Henry Truce, So all you Henry Haters can play with your selves!!!

The Trade Henry truce begins Sat. at 3:00

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Dantheman1280
Tatonka your going to be on the Radio show tommarow rite?

yeah.. i will post a link tomorrow.

you should call in.

[Dantheman1280]

Will do!

[L.A. Playa]

Dillon has less worth than Henry because of a percieved attitude problem that is not there, as for the OL it was not considered a major weakness in 2002 and Henry is a good back I will not be upset if they do not trade him. My point is GM's do stupid things on draft day, Millen and Al Davis are two of the dumbest, if they regard Henry as much better with more upside than Dillon than why not give up your #1 for this guy. I believe having Mc Gahee and Henry in the same backfield would be awesome. Mc Gahee getting the majority of carries and Henry being a more short yardage change of pace type of guy, lets face it though Henry had 1400 yards the Bills wher one of the worst rushing teams in the league, Mc Gahee could get 1700 and Travis 1000 this year if commotted to the run my first question is Do you think Travis can handle and stay mentally focused taking a backseat to Willis??? Iam not sure he can which then makes him worthless to the Bills and his trade value is terrible. Do I want the Bills to draft one of the big 3 QB's ??? Not really I think Bledsoe can be a serviceable if not spectacular QB for 2-4 years if we dont pay the bonus and renegotiate the contract, so I could live with a 5th rd QB, our 1st rd pick I would be happy with Evans, M Williams if available, Udeze, Wilfork or similar player. All I am saying is if AL or Matt are dumb enough to trade straight up for Travis the n do it if you cant get the QB you want then get a Winslow, Taylor or Gallery. Part of the way I stated all my arguements was more for debate purposes. Bottom line I am a McGahee Fan and I believe he will blow away Travis in Training Camp and have a great year I am not sure that Travis can handle it so if we get a great offer trade now rather than later when there is not as good of a market for him as for QB we could get one next draft or FA period if not this year Bledsoe is our QB this year so for better or worse we gotta live with it. Gotta admit one thing this has been a great debate

[helmetguy]

Excellent post, Throne. Even the "Madden Managers" can't dispute your analysis.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by pmacla
what has henry really proven?? he doesnt hit the hole quick enough??? he is fumble prone??? he doesnt make quick decisions??? he isnt a good blocker ???? not a great reciver??? cant throw???? and cant break a long run???? yep he has proven all of that serviceable not great not elite midlle of the pack runner in the league right now

what has Mcgahee proven? Until you can answer that you need to have that crystal ball serviced somewhere else other than Ms. Cleo.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
what has Mcgahee proven? Until you can answer that you need to have that crystal ball serviced somewhere else other than Ms. Cleo.

:rofl:

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Throne Logic
The twisted logic finally got the better of me.

venting complete

Now I feel as though I can make it all the way to Saturday. Well, those of us who are paying attention to the facts really appreciate how well you put that.


Originally posted by justasportsfan
what has Mcgahee proven? Until you can answer that you need to have that crystal ball serviced somewhere else other than Ms. Cleo.

:rofl:

[BuffaloRanger]

The point that is being missed is not only are you trading your offensive MVP leaving your running game in the hands of a player that never carried in the NFL, but...

you are trading him for the opportunity to select another player that has never played a down in the NFL. That's 2 big risks - not just one. If WM struggles and the draft pick is a bust, then it becomes one of the worst trades in Bills history.

Henry is signed to a great contract (cap-wise) for the next 2 seasons. A great player can be had at #13. Hell, trade back if possible and get another 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

[BillsFanCupp38]

1st round- Will Smith/ Udechi Udeze
2nd round- Micheal Jenkins/ Lee Evans
The rest you can pick but i gaurantee these will be who we get depending on which ones are still left for the 1st and 2nd round

[BillsFanCupp38]

Originally posted by pmacla
only a nightmare for the lovers of the overrated henry

Henry is far from overrated, underated if anything. One of the best backs in the league and only made it to the pro bowl 2 years ago because preist was hurt. Come on now kid...

[BigZ]

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
I don't understand how Henry can be slow, a fumbler, and can't block but is worth a top ten pick and maybe more? Plus, the Bengals just dealt Dillon, who is supposedly much better than Henry, for a second rounder and we are supposed to get more for Henry even though he is worse?




Yea, but think of all the great posts that would cause!!!

ROFL

The saddest part if all this happened would be that the entire offense would be put in the hands of a first year RB who hasn't touched the field and is a huge question mark. IF he fails, the Bills will have no RB, possilby no QB if they get Gallery like the one guy suggested because Drew would certainly be gone, TD might be fired, Mike Mularkey will have absolutely NO weapons and his offense will stink, MM will then be fired because he was brought in as an offensive mind and the offense stinks, and we will have to endure about three more years of terrible records while we start over from scratch and rebuild AGAIN.