TD should use Warner as leverage with Drew

[Novacane]

Before anyone blows a gasket this is not a bash Bledsoe thread. Most all of us agree Drew needs to take a pay cut. Why not use Warner as real leverage to get him to do that.


Bledsoe and Warner are basically the same QB.

similar age
similar style of play
both have played poorly the last year and a half
both of them were hurt by a play caller that refused to run the ball


we should at least see what Warner would cost. If he could be had for 2-3 mill a year tell Drew he has to take a cut to the same amount or we will go with Warner.

all the Bledsoe supporters are convinced Mularkey and Wyche can turn around Drew...................why could they not do the same for a recent 2 time MVP?

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

all the Bledsoe supporters are convinced Mularkey and Wyche can turn around Drew...................why could they not do the same for a recent 2 time MVP? Because they are both not used to dealing w/ Qb wives? :idunno:

[Novacane]

who cares about his wife.

[Mr. Miyagi]

http://www.faith.premierespeakers.com/photos/3315.jpg :hump:

:couch:

[L.A. Playa]

You should warn someone before posting that

[Bill Brasky]

why bring him in? we already have one immobile QB, having another is not going to help. we need somebody who can compliment Drew and do the things he can't so if he does get injured/taken out defenses will have to prepare differently for a different style of QB. beside that... Warner is a farse, he had 2 good years in the league and that's only because he was surrounded by some insane talent. anybody could have won with that team, look at how good they make Bulger look... and that guy is an interception machine.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman
why bring him in? .


read the post. He is Bledsoe but cheaper.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman
Warner is a farse, he had 2 good years in the league and that's only because he was surrounded by some insane talent. anybody could have won with that team.


And all the Bledsoe lovers are saying if we just surround him with insane talent he will be good!


To say anyone could have won with that team is assinine

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



And all the Bledsoe lovers are saying if we just surround him with insane talent he will be good!


To say anyone could have won with that team is assinine

1. I am not a Bledsoe lover.

2. It is not assinine.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman




2. It is not assinine.


You said anyone could have won with that team

anyone= Rob Johnson, Drew Bries, Jay Fiedler, Tommy Maddox, etc etc etc.

Warner is no "farse" He is a middle of the pack QB, Just like our 8 million dollar man. IF I can get the exact same thing for 2 mill I take it and use the savings on another player or 2.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

Warner is no "farse" He is a middle of the pack QB, Just like our 8 million dollar man. IF I can get the exact same thing for 2 mill I take it and use the savings on another player or 2.

he bagged groceries til he was 30!!!! then he got put a team full of studs and a was surrounded by a great coaching staff. how is that not a farse. once his coach left and his teammates started getting hurt he sucked. if you're a 2-time MVP of the NFL you better be able to carry your team through thick and thin which is exactly what he DIDN'T do. if you want to bring him in to make bledsoe take a pay cut, you'll still end up having to pay both of them and chances are both of them won't be willing to take significant cuts, which leaves us still having to pay basically the same amount for two aging, immobile QB's... not to mention a QB controversy as Warner has said he wants to start somewhere.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman


if you want to bring him in to make bledsoe take a pay cut, you'll still end up having to pay both of them and chances are both of them won't be willing to take significant cuts, which leaves us still having to pay basically the same amount for two aging, immobile QB's... not to mention a QB controversy as Warner has said he wants to start somewhere.


No.........that is not what I want. We negotiate with Warner and then offer Drew what Waner would take. If he says yes keep Drew and tell warner forget it. If Drew says no sign Warner and cut Drew.

He may have bagged groceries until he was 30 but at this point in their careers warner and Drew are interchangable IMO.

[Tatonka]

:gag:

:mad:

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by jfreeman
he bagged groceries til he was 30!!!! then he got put a team full of studs and a was surrounded by a great coaching staff. how is that not a farse. once his coach left and his teammates started getting hurt he sucked. if you're a 2-time MVP of the NFL you better be able to carry your team through thick and thin which is exactly what he DIDN'T do. if you want to bring him in to make bledsoe take a pay cut, you'll still end up having to pay both of them and chances are both of them won't be willing to take significant cuts, which leaves us still having to pay basically the same amount for two aging, immobile QB's... not to mention a QB controversy as Warner has said he wants to start somewhere.

Sorry but you don't win the NFL MVP title twice without being a special QB. Yes he had a great team, but there are alot of other QBs who had great teams and never got the title once, let alone twice. Give the man credit where credit is due.

Warner got hurt and that was the first time he really played poorly. The following season he recovered and played well in preseason before he was creamed a few times and got the concussions. He should never have been on the field after that, which is all Martz' fault. He never got the chance after that to "carry the team" because Martz decided to go with Bulger at that point. He's only played in 8 games in the last 2 years.

I for one believe he will surprise alot of people this year, and Drew bashing aside, I would take him in a heartbeat over Drew, especially if we could get him at a couple of mil cheaper. But even if he would cost the same, I'd still do the swap.

Warner is a proven WINNER, which cannot be said of Bledsoe, especially in the big games. Yeah, I'm sure Drewbies will post about "the system", "the coaches", blah, blah, blah. Well, in the end results are what counts and he has delivered. Granted there is no guarantee he has fully recovered from the concussions, but I'd take the chance. Why not. It's not like he has been faltering for years on end while being HEALTHY.

[B-DON]

im not by any means a bledsoe fan but warner sucks PERIOD The last time he won a game was in 2001. that was three years ago. at least bledsoe can win a few games in 3 years with a very sub par offense compared to a pro bowl offense.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by B-DON
im not by any means a bledsoe fan but warner sucks PERIOD The last time he won a game was in 2001. that was three years ago. at least bledsoe can win a few games in 3 years with a very sub par offense compared to a pro bowl offense.


Kind of hard to win when you don't play. To say a 2 time MVP sucks is just plain dumb

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



Kind of hard to win when you don't play. To say a 2 time MVP sucks is just plain dumb

I could think of several MVP's that have sucked, whether it be Super Bowl/League/etc.

Oh yeah, if Warner is so good, why did his team start 0-5 a few years ago when he was healthy?

[Bill Brasky]

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd like to see Warner here without a league MVP gaining 1,000 rushing and 1,000 recieving and 2, even 3 speed recievers to just throw the ball down the field to every play. Yeah, he'll be great, such an improvement over Drew. Let's take the chance so we can all ***** about how we don't like him after we suck again or don't make the playoffs.

Should I also mention the fact that this guy has been injury/concussion prone while playing for a team with an O-Line far better than the one we have now? You wanna talk about Drew being immobile...

I'll give him the credit of being a league MVP twice, but he had far more weapons than Drew, or many other QB's for that matter, have ever had playing along side him. Signing him to replace Drew would not be an improvement whatsoever. I see nothing in his game that could seriously improve this offense.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman




Oh yeah, if Warner is so good, why did his team start 0-5 a few years ago when he was healthy?



I'm not gonna argue with a Bledsoe lover that wants to pay him 8 mill when we could have the same thing for 3 million.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green




I'm not gonna argue with a Bledsoe lover that wants to pay him 8 mill when we could have the same thing for 3 million.

Are you blind? A few posts ago I said "1. I am not a Bledsoe lover"

I don't want to pay the guy 8 million bucks, there are very few QB's in the league that deserve that much. Apparently you aren't reading what I'm saying.

PS- you have been arguing with me. :up:

[Novacane]

You guys are right. Warner sucks. There is no way he could match these awesome stats Drew put up last year.


2860 yds 58.2 comp% 11 TD 12 Int.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by jfreeman
I could think of several MVP's that have sucked, whether it be Super Bowl/League/etc.

Name one NFL MVP who sucked.

[Bill Brasky]

Brian Sipe - Cleveland Browns - 1980
Ken Anderson - Cincinnati Bengals - 1981


Want more? I can also give you a laundry list of super bowl MVP's that sucked

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
You guys are right. Warner sucks. There is no way he could match these awesome stats Drew put up last year.

You have a point here. There's no way a guy can match these stats sitting on the bench because he got sacked a couple times and his wifey doesn't want him to get another boo-boo.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by jfreeman
Brian Sipe - Cleveland Browns - 1980
Ken Anderson - Cincinnati Bengals - 1981


Want more? I can also give you a laundry list of super bowl MVP's that sucked

Just how did Sipe and Anderson suck when they won the title? Do you have any stats or reasoning behind your claim?

I didn't ask nor do I care about Super Bowl MVPs.

[Novacane]

You know whats funny. These Bledsoe lovers cry and whine how he needs to have a better team around him to succeed. Then they turn around and say Warners accomplishments mean nothing because he had a good team around him. :scratch:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
You guys are right. Warner sucks. There is no way he could match these awesome stats Drew put up last year.


2860 yds 58.2 comp% 11 TD 12 Int.


/me whispers you forgot all the fumbles to Fairway.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Tatonka



* Tatonka whispers you forgot all the fumbles to Fairway.


Only 3 more days and you are a free man again :up:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Only 3 more days and you are a free man again :up:

:gag:

i cant discuss that at the present time. :D

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by Tatonka


:gag:

i cant discuss that at the present time. :D

Me thinks T is gonna need counseling bc of this truce. That the board is gonna be packed with Bledsoe sucks threads as soon as its over which I will enjoy posting in and agreeing with.

[Tatonka]

/me is overjoyed thinking about his first "Start the Rookie" Thread on saturday night.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
You know whats funny. These Bledsoe lovers cry and whine how he needs to have a better team around him to succeed. Then they turn around and say Warners accomplishments mean nothing because he had a good team around him. :scratch:

Good point.

[The_Philster]

I'll say this, Fairway..it's an interesting thought. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head against it is that Bledsoe has the rapport with his team and timing with the WRs.

[Dantheman1280]

Tatonka, we wont have a rookie on day 1 so you will have to wait!

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Dantheman1280
Tatonka, we wont have a rookie on day 1 so you will have to wait!


Unless we trade up.

[finsrclowns]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



read the post. He is Bledsoe but cheaper.

First post on this board.

If Warner were brought in as a starter, why would he take 2-3 m? That's slave's wages for a veteran starting QB. Warner's salary and bonus for this year, before he gets cut, is higher than Bledsoe's. And even IF he'd take 2-3m which I really doubt, IMO Warner's lost it. I've watched him play a number of times since he hurt his hand, and he's not the same player he was mentally or physically, not even close. Martz LOVES Warner but he's concluded he can't play anymore, and that's with an NFL line. It's scary to think how Kurt would do behind Teague, Tucker and crew.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by finsrclowns


First post on this board.

If Warner were brought in as a starter, why would he take 2-3 m? That's slave's wages for a veteran starting QB. Warner's salary and bonus for this year, before he gets cut, is higher than Bledsoe's. And even IF he'd take 2-3m which I really doubt, IMO Warner's lost it. I've watched him play a number of times since he hurt his hand, and he's not the same player he was mentally or physically, not even close. Martz LOVES Warner but he's concluded he can't play anymore, and that's with an NFL line. It's scary to think how Kurt would do behind Teague, Tucker and crew.

There's no point posting on this thread dude, they don't listen to what you say. I'm still a "Bledsoe lover" though I've said twice that I'm not. Warner is not the answer to this team's offensive troubles but appearantly to some on this board he is, and that is a scary thought.

[finsrclowns]

Line play is very important to any QB, but especially to immobile guys like Bledsoe and Warner. If you're not going to fix the line, bring back Flutie. You won't win many games, but he'll be entertaining at least and when the Red Sea parts up the middle he can run for it. Bledsoe and Warner can't. But the thing is Bledsoe's numbers were as good as Warner's in the 1st half of 2002. He had good weapons, not quite as good as the Rams, but good and he put up big numbers. But since then he looks like a guy that knows he's about to get body slammed. My guess is if one of the top 3-4 guards is not chosen in this draft, Bledsoe will not bounce back. But I'd say the same about Warner, and I'm not sure he isn't still injured. And short of an additional speed threat like an Evans the present Bills receiving core is not scaring anyone. Just my 2 cents.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman


Warner is not the answer to this team's offensive troubles but appearantly to some on this board he is, and that is a scary thought. \



YOu really have a reading comprehension problem. No one is sayihg he is great and the answer to our offensive problems. What we ARE saying is he can do exactly what Bledsoe does for less $$$$$ which would allow us to re-sign Jennings and or Schobel before they hit the FA market next year

[Novacane]

Originally posted by finsrclowns


First post on this board.

If Warner were brought in as a starter, why would he take 2-3 m? That's slave's wages for a veteran starting QB. .


Welcome to the zone.

On his salary he is not going to have much choice. There will not be a big market for him.
JOhn Clayton was just on ESPN talking about how he sees no team that is going to go after him hard for a starting job. He is not going to get a huge contract.

[Dicknoze69]

I have no problem bringing Warner in, with the following conditions:

1. Warner understands that he is being brought in as a BACKUP only, just as insurance.

2. He comes rather cheaply, which should be no problem.

3. We fix our Offensive Line, which we should be doing anyways with Bledsoe as our starter.


Honestly, we don't have a backup QB right now, and I'm not real comfortable with a rookie filling that role. Warner is a good option, mostly because there aren't many other options out there. He's a talented guy, who used to be the most accurate QB in the league.

Why not give the guy a shot to rebound?

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Dicknoze69
I have no problem bringing Warner in, with the following conditions:

1. Warner understands that he is being brought in as a BACKUP only, just as insurance.

2. He comes rather cheaply, which should be no problem.

3. We fix our Offensive Line, which we should be doing anyways with Bledsoe as our starter.


Honestly, we don't have a backup QB right now, and I'm not real comfortable with a rookie filling that role. Warner is a good option, mostly because there aren't many other options out there. He's a talented guy, who used to be the most accurate QB in the league.

Why not give the guy a shot to rebound?


I would not want him here as a back up. that would only start a QB controversy. One or the other. Whomever costs less

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
\



YOu really have a reading comprehension problem. No one is sayihg he is great and the answer to our offensive problems. What we ARE saying is he can do exactly what Bledsoe does for less $$$$$ which would allow us to re-sign Jennings and or Schobel before they hit the FA market next year

That sort of answers the question I was about to ask. I think the re-working of Bledsoe's contract has taken too long. all of the in-demand free agents are gone and most teams are in pretty good cap room, so there won't be much avail. after June 1.

Personally, I'd rather we just keep Bledsoe under his current contract so that we can release him next offseason with no cap cut.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Before anyone blows a gasket this is not a bash Bledsoe thread. Most all of us agree Drew needs to take a pay cut. Why not use Warner as real leverage to get him to do that.


Bledsoe and Warner are basically the same QB.

similar age
similar style of play
both have played poorly the last year and a half
both of them were hurt by a play caller that refused to run the ball


we should at least see what Warner would cost. If he could be had for 2-3 mill a year tell Drew he has to take a cut to the same amount or we will go with Warner.

all the Bledsoe supporters are convinced Mularkey and Wyche can turn around Drew...................why could they not do the same for a recent 2 time MVP?

Talk about negotiating from a position of weakness.....


TD- "Hey Drew- we are going to sign Kurt for $2 million- take a paycut"

Drew's Agent- "I'll Be Right Back"

Drew's Agent- "Hello? Is this Kurt Warner's agent? What teams ar einterested, and what are they offering? Dallas?...uh..huh..Miami called? ...got it..And the Giants need a vet QB to teach Manning.....I see......OK Thanks "



Back in TD's office...."Uh- not interested... Thanks"

[Novacane]

HR, I don't want to re-structure Bledsoe. I want TD to say cut your base salary to 3 mill this year or you are out of here. That way we can still cut him next year if he sucks again without a big hit.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Dozerdog


Talk about negotiating from a position of weakness.....


TD- "Hey Drew- we are going to sign Kurt for $2 million- take a paycut"

Drew's Agent- "I'll Be Right Back"

Drew's Agent- "Hello? Is this Kurt Warner's agent? What teams ar einterested, and what are they offering? Dallas?...uh..huh..Miami called? ...got it..And the Giants need a vet QB to teach Manning.....I see......OK Thanks "



Back in TD's office...."Uh- not interested... Thanks"


You talk as if there is going to be a bidding war for Warner. I highly doubt it.

[Dozerdog]

This is silly. From many published reports, and radio interviews- Drew has already told the team he'll do anything to help the club.

TD has waited- I presume to see what happens in the draft. TD has steadfastly refused to pay above markey value for players up and down the roster. I trust he will evaluate the QB position the same way. There has been zero evidence to the contrary so far.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
This is silly. From many published reports, and radio interviews- Drew has already told the team he'll do anything to help the club.

TD has waited- I presume to see what happens in the draft. TD has steadfastly refused to pay above markey value for players up and down the roster. I trust he will evaluate the QB position the same way. There has been zero evidence to the contrary so far.



I think your smoking something if you think he will take a paycut. He is talking restructure with that "i'll do anything for the team" BS.

If thats the case than forget it. Pay him his money this year and cut him if he sucks again

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Dantheman1280
Tatonka, we wont have a rookie on day 1 so you will have to wait!

i dont know about that. losman could be our second. smoker could be our third.


Originally posted by jfreeman
There's no point posting on this thread dude, they don't listen to what you say. I'm still a "Bledsoe lover" though I've said twice that I'm not. Warner is not the answer to this team's offensive troubles but appearantly to some on this board he is, and that is a scary thought.


thats not true j. i will listen. you just have to make a good point about why it is a bad idea.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
\
YOu really have a reading comprehension problem. No one is sayihg he is great and the answer to our offensive problems. What we ARE saying is he can do exactly what Bledsoe does for less $$$$$ which would allow us to re-sign Jennings and or Schobel before they hit the FA market next year

You called me a Bledsoe lover... twice... after I said I wasn't... twice.

Secondly, why sign a guy that can do "exactly what Bledsoe does for less $$$$"... don't you and many others think Bledose is the main problem with the offense? Why sign his so-called "bargain twin" (which is basically what your calling him) so we can keep having the same problems just to "save a few bucks" to re-sign our All-Pro Lineman Jonas Freakin Jennings.... THAT is what I have been saying.

Thirdly, I think you've missed the point, pointed out by several people, that signing Warner will not save us money.

Fourth, Bledsoe and Warner are not the same QB... and your basis so far for this argument is this:

-Similar age - who cares? since when did age become a factor in determining the similarities between productive/unproductive QB's?

-Similar style of play - based on what? Lack of mobility may be your only argument here, but there are plenty of QB's lacking mobility that are doing just fine.

-Played poorly last year and a half - Let's replace a QB that has been struggling for a year and a half with another one? This makes no sense to me.

-Hurt by play calling - I will not disagree with you on this. Though I will say that before Warner started to suck, they still ran a similar offense which was pass-heavy and he still did fine... so why did his productivity drop with essentially the same roster?

Before you reply to this stop to think that others might not share your opinion... it'z knot that wee hav uh "reading comprehension" problim.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Tatonka

thats not true j. i will listen. you just have to make a good point about why it is a bad idea.

I wasn't aiming my comment towards you, it was more towards FTG.

[Mr. Cynical]

I've posted many, many, many times about cutting Drew unless he takes a MAJOR pay cut. But I think everyone has finally agreed that this will never happen. He may take some *restructure*, but why on earth would he significantly reduce his pay when he is *guaranteed* to make $8M this year unless they cut him? He's a good guy but he's not stupid.

The only way he'd really drop his price is if it truly felt TD was ready with the axe. As FTG said, Warner may be of use in this scenario. But to be honest, I'd still rather cut Drew, grab Warner, and draft Ben or Rivers. We'd get a better chance for success this year (IMO), and we'd be building for the future with the rookie.

The botton line is that we KNOW what to expect from Drew. There are 11 years to back it up. However, we don't know with Warner. If he plays at even 75% of when he was healthy, that's still much better than Drew. If not, then net-net we are no worse off than we were with Drew.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman




?

Before you reply to this stop to think that others might not share your opinion... it'z knot that wee hav uh "reading comprehension" problim.



You said I thought Warner was the answer to our offensive woes. I never said that. Thats either not comprehending what you read or just making things up to suit your opinion.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green




You said I thought Warner was the answer to our offensive woes. I never said that. Thats either not comprehending what you read or just making things up to suit your opinion.

Kind of like calling me a Bledsoe lover... :up:

[STAMPY]

Originally posted by jfreeman
You called me a Bledsoe lover... twice... after I said I wasn't... twice.

Secondly, why sign a guy that can do "exactly what Bledsoe does for less $$$$"... don't you and many others think Bledose is the main problem with the offense? Why sign his so-called "bargain twin" (which is basically what your calling him) so we can keep having the same problems just to "save a few bucks" to re-sign our All-Pro Lineman Jonas Freakin Jennings.... THAT is what I have been saying.

Thirdly, I think you've missed the point, pointed out by several people, that signing Warner will not save us money.

Fourth, Bledsoe and Warner are not the same QB... and your basis so far for this argument is this:

-Similar age - who cares? since when did age become a factor in determining the similarities between productive/unproductive QB's?

-Similar style of play - based on what? Lack of mobility may be your only argument here, but there are plenty of QB's lacking mobility that are doing just fine.

-Played poorly last year and a half - Let's replace a QB that has been struggling for a year and a half with another one? This makes no sense to me.

-Hurt by play calling - I will not disagree with you on this. Though I will say that before Warner started to suck, they still ran a similar offense which was pass-heavy and he still did fine... so why did his productivity drop with essentially the same roster?

Before you reply to this stop to think that others might not share your opinion... it'z knot that wee hav uh "reading comprehension" problim.

best post, AGREED, why the **** do we sign warner when we can grab LOSMAN for cheaper and a whole lot more potential... i so agree if you think bledsoe sucks why the hell draft someone who does what he does exactly even at lower price. wouldn't u rather go get someone who can do things drew can't?

i'll say it once, i'll say it again... kurt warner has seen his best days. they are over. dallas might give him a shot tho till drew hensen is ready, cause there starting QB sucks, i hate him, and bill likes vets

[STAMPY]

Pleez stop the bickering guys, it's not solving anything or strengthening either of your points

[finsrclowns]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



Welcome to the zone.

On his salary he is not going to have much choice. There will not be a big market for him.
JOhn Clayton was just on ESPN talking about how he sees no team that is going to go after him hard for a starting job. He is not going to get a huge contract.

Thank you for the welcome. One reason there won't be a big market for him is they're aren't any starting spots open so he'd be paid as a backup. But if he came to Buffalo one would assume it would be to replace Bledsoe so you'd think he'd draw a decent salary.

As a point of comparison between the 2, and yes, this is only one game, but last year Warner started the opener against the Giants and he had like 5 fumbles by halftime. Bledsoe on the other hand played well against the Giants and had 2 TD passes. And I don't know anyone that would trade our pass blocking for the Rams. The point I'm making is if we don't improve the line about the last guy you'd want to bring in is Warner, even if he'll work for chump change.

My guess is Bledsoe will take a pay cut.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by jfreeman


Kind of like calling me a Bledsoe lover... :up:


You are awfully defensive about replacing him for not being a lover :scratch:

[Bill Brasky]

Well, when it comes to Kurt Warner hell yes!!! I don't see signing him as an improvement to our current situation. I know you are saying we should get Warner cuz we could get him for cheaper, same skills, etc. but I disagree with your argument. If we were getting somebody better based on skills that could help our team then I would be all for it. The only thing I want this team to do is win, and I just don't see it happening by replacing Drew with Warner.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by BuffaloBillsSTAMPEDE
Pleez stop the bickering guys,


NO :snicker:

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by finsrclowns
Thank you for the welcome. One reason there won't be a big market for him is they're aren't any starting spots open so he'd be paid as a backup. But if he came to Buffalo one would assume it would be to replace Bledsoe so you'd think he'd draw a decent salary.

As a point of comparison between the 2, and yes, this is only one game, but last year Warner started the opener against the Giants and he had like 5 fumbles by halftime. Bledsoe on the other hand played well against the Giants and had 2 TD passes. And I don't know anyone that would trade our pass blocking for the Rams. The point I'm making is if we don't improve the line about the last guy you'd want to bring in is Warner, even if he'll work for chump change.

My guess is Bledsoe will take a pay cut.

Well, I think you are ignoring the fact that he played most of the game with a severe concussion- the idiot Martz left him in ignoring the symptoms. As it turned out, Warner was left behind in New York to seek immediate medical attention following the game.

[Bill Brasky]

Whoever gave Martz a head coaching job seriously needs their head examined.

[chernobylwraiths]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
I've posted many, many, many times about cutting Drew unless he takes a MAJOR pay cut. But I think everyone has finally agreed that this will never happen. He may take some *restructure*, but why on earth would he significantly reduce his pay when he is *guaranteed* to make $8M this year unless they cut him? He's a good guy but he's not stupid.

The only way he'd really drop his price is if it truly felt TD was ready with the axe. As FTG said, Warner may be of use in this scenario. But to be honest, I'd still rather cut Drew, grab Warner, and draft Ben or Rivers. We'd get a better chance for success this year (IMO), and we'd be building for the future with the rookie.

The botton line is that we KNOW what to expect from Drew. There are 11 years to back it up. However, we don't know with Warner. If he plays at even 75% of when he was healthy, that's still much better than Drew. If not, then net-net we are no worse off than we were with Drew.

Really? Who has agreed that he will never take a pay cut? If you are saying that he should take a pay cut from 6 to 3 million AND remove the bonus in November, then I agree, but I think if he even just cuts out the bonus in November that is a major cut. No, he's not stupid, but he also has to realize that he IS comming to the end of the gravey train. The time for the big contract is over. If he wants to stay with a team and have some security, he will have to renegotiate. Yes, renegotiate. Just because they might redo his contract and have a SB in it doesn't meant that it will automatically kill our cap in a few years. They might even give him small base salaries with large incentives that would require him to play well.

As for cutting Drew to bring in Warner, I think that is a bad idea. You at least have a commodity with Drew that you know about. His mechanics are the same, the arm strength is still there and he is familiar with the roster. Bring in Warner and you have a hell of a lot more question marks. Is the thumb OK? Can he take a hit? (Drew certainly still can) How long will it take to aclimate himself with the new team. Just not a good idea. You might as well bring him in to be a backup and start whatever rookie you draft. And scoff if you want, but Warner had two probowl receivers to throw to in their prime, a probowl running back who is probably the best receiving HB in NFL history and very competant third and fourth WRs to throw to on every play. The offense he ran was on a par with the no-huddle offense in its prime. But like the no-huddle, defenses found a way to stop the "greatest show on turf". That as much as anything else is why he suffered and why Mike Martz (a Kevin Gilbride clone IMO) may never win his own title because he doens't deversify his offense enough.

Lastly, you THINK that 75% of Warner is going to be better than Drew, but you don't know what Drew will be able to do with a run based offense. And if you are wrong, you just have thrown the season away to take a big chance on a QB with even MORE questions than Bledsoe.

[BuffaloRanger]

Originally posted by Tatonka
* Tatonka is overjoyed thinking about his first "Start the Rookie" Thread on saturday night.

You might be partly joking but "start the rookie" threads this early are going to kill this message board.

The atmosphere will become "poisonous". If it happens I'll consider taking a 4 month break.

[qcsabresfan84]

You can't just cut Bledsoe and be done with him. I don't know the specifics of his contract, but I'm willing to bet that he's got some guaranteed money in there, and cutting him would result in a big cap hit. Add the "2-3 million" needed to sign Warner and we're probably losing money to do something that won't advance our team at all. It's pointless.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by BuffaloRanger
You might be partly joking but "start the rookie" threads this early are going to kill this message board.

The atmosphere will become "poisonous". If it happens I'll consider taking a 4 month break.


We haven't even drafted a QB yet, and you are already convinced that the message board will melt down.

[chernobylwraiths]

Originally posted by qcsabresfan84
You can't just cut Bledsoe and be done with him. I don't know the specifics of his contract, but I'm willing to bet that he's got some guaranteed money in there, and cutting him would result in a big cap hit. Add the "2-3 million" needed to sign Warner and we're probably losing money to do something that won't advance our team at all. It's pointless.

Actually, we could cut him anytime up to November with on cap hit whatsoever.

[finsrclowns]

Originally posted by Dozerdog


Well, I think you are ignoring the fact that he played most of the game with a severe concussion- the idiot Martz left him in ignoring the symptoms. As it turned out, Warner was left behind in New York to seek immediate medical attention following the game.

Martz is a jerk, I'm not sure he's an idiot. But the concussion occurred just before halftime, after Warner had fumbled 4 times. Warner actually played better in the 2nd half AFTER the concussion. Obviously keeping him in was bonehead. I think people need to also look at how much better the Rams have played behind Marc Bulger. I like Warner but he's a mess. IMO if he had played last year behind our line with our receivers the Bills would have gone with Travis Brown by mid season.

[Bill Brasky]

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths


Really? Who has agreed that he will never take a pay cut? If you are saying that he should take a pay cut from 6 to 3 million AND remove the bonus in November, then I agree, but I think if he even just cuts out the bonus in November that is a major cut. No, he's not stupid, but he also has to realize that he IS comming to the end of the gravey train. The time for the big contract is over. If he wants to stay with a team and have some security, he will have to renegotiate. Yes, renegotiate. Just because they might redo his contract and have a SB in it doesn't meant that it will automatically kill our cap in a few years. They might even give him small base salaries with large incentives that would require him to play well.

As for cutting Drew to bring in Warner, I think that is a bad idea. You at least have a commodity with Drew that you know about. His mechanics are the same, the arm strength is still there and he is familiar with the roster. Bring in Warner and you have a hell of a lot more question marks. Is the thumb OK? Can he take a hit? (Drew certainly still can) How long will it take to aclimate himself with the new team. Just not a good idea. You might as well bring him in to be a backup and start whatever rookie you draft. And scoff if you want, but Warner had two probowl receivers to throw to in their prime, a probowl running back who is probably the best receiving HB in NFL history and very competant third and fourth WRs to throw to on every play. The offense he ran was on a par with the no-huddle offense in its prime. But like the no-huddle, defenses found a way to stop the "greatest show on turf". That as much as anything else is why he suffered and why Mike Martz (a Kevin Gilbride clone IMO) may never win his own title because he doens't deversify his offense enough.

Lastly, you THINK that 75% of Warner is going to be better than Drew, but you don't know what Drew will be able to do with a run based offense. And if you are wrong, you just have thrown the season away to take a big chance on a QB with even MORE questions than Bledsoe.

:bf1: :bf1:

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
Really? Who has agreed that he will never take a pay cut? If you are saying that he should take a pay cut from 6 to 3 million AND remove the bonus in November, then I agree, but I think if he even just cuts out the bonus in November that is a major cut. No, he's not stupid, but he also has to realize that he IS comming to the end of the gravey train. The time for the big contract is over. If he wants to stay with a team and have some security, he will have to renegotiate. Yes, renegotiate. Just because they might redo his contract and have a SB in it doesn't meant that it will automatically kill our cap in a few years. They might even give him small base salaries with large incentives that would require him to play well.

Well, you have your opinion and I have mine. He won't take a major pay cut they way I define it...e.g., at least $3M. And when you say "time for the big contract is over"....he already *has* the big contract. It's not like he is signing on to the team for the first year. He has the leverage right now until TD has an alternative ready to replace him.



Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
You at least have a commodity with Drew that you know about. His mechanics are the same, the arm strength is still there and he is familiar with the roster.

You actually just supported my point for cutting him. ;)



Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
Bring in Warner and you have a hell of a lot more question marks. Is the thumb OK? Can he take a hit? (Drew certainly still can) How long will it take to aclimate himself with the new team. Just not a good idea. You might as well bring him in to be a backup and start whatever rookie you draft. And scoff if you want, but Warner had two probowl receivers to throw to in their prime, a probowl running back who is probably the best receiving HB in NFL history and very competant third and fourth WRs to throw to on every play. The offense he ran was on a par with the no-huddle offense in its prime. But like the no-huddle, defenses found a way to stop the "greatest show on turf". That as much as anything else is why he suffered and why Mike Martz (a Kevin Gilbride clone IMO) may never win his own title because he doens't deversify his offense enough.

I'm not arguing he had a great team around him. But he still had to lead the team, make the reads and make the throws. Do you think Rob Johnson would have had the same results as Kurt? Yes, we don't know what Warner can do now after the injuries. But the upside is that IF he is okay, he has shown to be a WINNER, unlike Drew.


Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
Lastly, you THINK that 75% of Warner is going to be better than Drew, but you don't know what Drew will be able to do with a run based offense. And if you are wrong, you just have thrown the season away to take a big chance on a QB with even MORE questions than Bledsoe.

What do you think he had with Martin? We already KNOW what Drew can do! Why do think you will be surprised next season after ELEVEN years? I just don't get it when Drew supporters continue to harp on this. We do know what Warner can do when he's healthy and that's worth the chance IMO.

Just to be clear - I don't think Warner is the savior or the ultimate answer for the Bills. That lies in the hands of whichever QB we draft this year. But all things considered, I would be far more optimistic about this season if Warner was starting behind center instead of Drew.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
What do you think he had with Martin? We already KNOW what Drew can do!
Yeah...he did pretty well with Curtis Martin

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by The_Philster

Yeah...he did pretty well with Curtis Martin

A) His completion percentage was still 56% during the 3 years he had Martin.

B) from NE39:

He [Drew] hasn't played well against good teams in the past, and his playoff numbers are stunningly bad. Sure, he went to the Super Bowl in 1996, but the Pats got there on Curtis Martin's legs and solid defense. In only 1 playoff game has he completed 60% of his passes (60.6%, in 1996 against Jax). In only 3 playoff games has he thrown for 200 yards (235 Yds on 50 attempts in 1994 against Cle; 253 Yds in 48 attempts against Green Bay in the Super Bowl in 1996 and 264 Yds in 44 attempts against Pittsburgh in 1997 - all losses). He has never had a passer rating as high as 80 in a playoff game.

His career playoff numbers:

129-for-252 (51.2%), 1,335 Yds (5.3 Yds/Att), 6 TD, 10 Int, 58.2 QB Rating.

Still speaks volumes about how good he is against good teams/big games even with a running game. If you believe the Bills to be a playoff team this year, wouldn't you want someone in there who won't choke?

[The_Philster]

:puke: Stats
Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
If you believe the Bills to be a playoff team this year, wouldn't you want someone in there who won't choke?

Who do you have like that who is guaranteed to HELP win playoff games?

[Novacane]

Originally posted by BuffaloRanger


You might be partly joking but "start the rookie" threads this early are going to kill this message board.

The atmosphere will become "poisonous". If it happens I'll consider taking a 4 month break.



Pullease! Don't take this so seriously

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by The_Philster
:puke: Stats

Who do you have like that who is guaranteed to HELP win playoff games?

You can puke on stats all you like but it still doesn't change the facts. Drew does not do well vs. good teams or in big games.

I never said anything about a guarantee. But I do believe in probabilities, and the probability is that Warner would perform better than Drew in a playoff game (assuming he is healthy). And yes, I would take the chance on his health given that his upside is higher than Drew's.

[thefixer74]

Originally posted by Mr. Miyagi
http://www.faith.premierespeakers.com/photos/3315.jpg :hump:

:couch:

Their should be a law against posting any of her pics:whatthe:

[BigZ]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Before anyone blows a gasket this is not a bash Bledsoe thread. Most all of us agree Drew needs to take a pay cut. Why not use Warner as real leverage to get him to do that.


Bledsoe and Warner are basically the same QB.

similar age
similar style of play
both have played poorly the last year and a half
both of them were hurt by a play caller that refused to run the ball


we should at least see what Warner would cost. If he could be had for 2-3 mill a year tell Drew he has to take a cut to the same amount or we will go with Warner.

all the Bledsoe supporters are convinced Mularkey and Wyche can turn around Drew...................why could they not do the same for a recent 2 time MVP?



Oh, please........................NO

[Mr. Cynical]

I dunno...get her to grow her hair long and I'd throw her a bang. :D

[chernobylwraiths]

She kinda looks like the former Mrs. Buttafucco.