Tatonka's Draft Theory!

[Tatonka]

it is a hell of alot easier to be pessimitic than it is to be optimistic.

just so you know.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka
it is a hell of alot easier to be pessimitic than it is to be optimistic.

just so you know.

:tongue:

[Tatonka]

its true.

[hintexas]

Tatokna I thought you were one of the guys that didnt want the Bills to picka Wide Receiver in the first round

[DraftBoy]

He didnt but hes also not so quick to say we blew it big time. Plus I think evans was the smart pick in hindsight bc I wanted a DT there but we got a steal in the 3rd so im happy.

[Tatonka]

i absolutely was.

but i am also able to see that we added a great wr and a great qb prospect, and dont think i am smarter than TD.

i am not willing to condem these kids 24 hours after the franchise chose them to be our future.

[DraftBoy]

Im willing to celebrate for these picks I was so happy and TD is yet to dissapoint me today also love the TE pick.

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
pessimitic

Tonk makin' up words again. :mex:

[Michael82]

I'm ready to buy an Evans jersey! :up:

Maybe he'll be #89, like our last speedy receiver was. Steve Tasker. :up:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Tonk makin' up words again. :mex:

at least people got my point.. as opposed to 90% of your posts.

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i absolutely was.

but i am also able to see that we added a great wr and a great qb prospect, and dont think i am smarter than TD.

i am not willing to condem these kids 24 hours after the franchise chose them to be our future.


More people should think like that.

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
at least people got my point.. as opposed to 90% of your posts.

J/K

Reference to what you posted last night... I thought you had me on Ignore... ?

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i am also able to see that we added a great wr and a great qb prospect, and dont think i am smarter than TD.

I don't think this was an intentional shot at me but it sort of felt like it. :idunno:

I don't think I am smarter than TD as it pertains to football. But that doesn't mean I can't leverage the reports and professional opinions of other people who *are* in the business to make an informed judgment of my own. Just because TD is the GM of a football team doesn't mean he can't be wrong. He may be right in this case, but at this point I don't think it was a good move based on the information and professional opinions available.

As for it being easier to be pessimistic than optimistic, I disagree. Look at savior. He chooses to be ridiculously optimistic about Drew. Seems pretty easy to him.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by Tatonka
at least people got my point.. as opposed to 90% of your posts.

You invented a word? Which one was it? Or was it just one that Juice isn't familiar with? A? The? And? Was it one of those?

[Tatonka]

they locked my thread down that you ruined.. so i didnt bother.. your posts are fun to read and make fun of.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
I don't think this was an intentional shot at me but it sort of felt like it. :idunno:

I don't think I am smarter than TD as it pertains to football. But that doesn't mean I can't leverage the reports and professional opinions of other people who *are* in the business to make an informed judgment of my own. Just because TD is the GM of a football team doesn't mean he can't be wrong. He may be right in this case, but at this point I don't think it was a good move based on the information and professional opinions available.

As for it being easier to be pessimistic than optimistic, I disagree. Look at savior. He chooses to be ridiculously optimistic about Drew. Seems pretty easy to him.

it wasnt a shot at you.. but if the shoe fits...

for every "expert" that things it is a bad pick, there is one that thinks it is a good pick.

savior is optimistic about bledsoe, but not necessarily about anything else.. he is also 12.

[BillsMan80]

Exactly, I know that Hoge thinks Losman was not a smart pick, but Salisbury was gushing at it and was this close to pronouncing him the next Brett Favre. TD did what he felt we needed, and I trust him until these guys prove they can't cut on the field.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka
for every "expert" that things it is a bad pick, there is one that thinks it is a good pick.


So using that logic, you are no more right than I am, correct?

[juice]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
I don't think this was an intentional shot at me but it sort of felt like it. :idunno:

I don't think I am smarter than TD as it pertains to football. But that doesn't mean I can't leverage the reports and professional opinions of other people who *are* in the business to make an informed judgment of my own. Just because TD is the GM of a football team doesn't mean he can't be wrong. He may be right in this case, but at this point I don't think it was a good move based on the information and professional opinions available.

As for it being easier to be pessimistic than optimistic, I disagree. Look at savior. He chooses to be ridiculously optimistic about Drew. Seems pretty easy to him.

Mr. Cynical is sounding like Mr. Sense-able... plus he's not affraid to have a "Different" opinion... the Zoners are becoming the Zombies.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
So using that logic, you are no more right than I am, correct?

that is absolutely correct.. but as a fan.. i feel it is almost an obligation to take a wait and see approach, as opposed to pissing and moaning because they didnt get the ONE player that i had my heart set on.

[juice]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
So using that logic, you are no more right than I am, correct?

Mr. Cynical is like Mr. Spock with the Logic.

[Tatonka]

elavation, juice.. :snicker:

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka


that is absolutely correct.. but as a fan.. i feel it is almost an obligation to take a wait and see approach, as opposed to pissing and moaning because they didnt get the ONE player that i had my heart set on.

As a fan, I want the team to win, so I feel it is just as much an obligation to criticize decisions when it is felt they are bad.

You can call it pissing and moaning, but praising has exactly the same impact on the actual outcome of the Bills' success. Nothing.

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
they locked my thread down that you ruined.. so i didnt bother.. your posts are fun to read and make fun of.

You and your friend(s) were the one's Reporting to the Moderators...

But back to the point, all of the picks have been need positions except the TE project we picked up in the 4th Rd. I would have gone with the OL or FB.

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
elavation, juice.. :snicker:

After this Draft you may have to start a TD Truce. :madcloud:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
As a fan, I want the team to win, so I feel it is just as much an obligation to criticize decisions when it is felt they are bad.


my point is.. you have nothing to base your opinion on if it is good or bad on... other than a few internet hacks who said they dont like him.

you chose to listen to them, as opposed to the tons of people who said it is a great pick.. including the people who run the bills.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka


my point is.. you have nothing to base your opinion on if it is good or bad on... other than a few internet hacks who said they dont like him.

you chose to listen to them, as opposed to the tons of people who said it is a great pick.. including the people who run the bills.

Ok, who do you base your opinion on besides TD that it was a good trade? See my point? It is a wash.

Also I think you are exaggerating the "tons of people" who said it was a great pick. You're implying that only a "few internet hacks" feel it was a bad trade and this is simply not true. Listening to multiple sports shows in addition to ESPN, I have heard more people than not say it was not a great trade, including ingtar.

[HenryRules]

At the end of the day, our opinions now are just useless. However, this would be an entirely boring place to come to if everyone sounded like Bills PR staff and agreed with all of their decisions. It's nice to be able to get other opinions without some people getting overly worked up (although some people are so defensive about criticisms of TD I think they might be related to him - Tatonka, that's not directed at you, your're pretty good about it). However, criticizing people's opinions simply because they disagree with TD is ridiculous. Yes, TD is a better GM than all of us, but he's in a public position making very public decisions so we should be allowed to discuss the pros/cons of those decisions. At the same time, like it or not, GW was a better head coach and KG was a better OC than anyone here, yet we were all quite happy and quick to criticize their decisions.

As to my thoughts on our draft so far, the wisdom of these moves is going to depend on what our record is this year (because we gave up next years first), how Evans pans out, how long PW and SA stay around, a ton of things. So I'm not going to say that this can't turn out to be a great draft. However, my first impression is that we gave up too much to get Losman and Evans and I think our 1st and 2nd this year and 1st next year could have been used to get better players. I have nothing against the players we got, and would have been pleased (not overjoyed or anything), if we drafted those two and still had next year's first.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by HenryRules
At the end of the day, our opinions now are just useless. However, this would be an entirely boring place to come to if everyone sounded like Bills PR staff and agreed with all of their decisions. It's nice to be able to get other opinions without some people getting overly worked up (although some people are so defensive about criticisms of TD I think they might be related to him - Tatonka, that's not directed at you, your're pretty good about it). However, criticizing people's opinions simply because they disagree with TD is ridiculous. Yes, TD is a better GM than all of us, but he's in a public position making very public decisions so we should be allowed to discuss the pros/cons of those decisions. At the same time, like it or not, GW was a better head coach and KG was a better OC than anyone here, yet we were all quite happy and quick to criticize their decisions.

As to my thoughts on our draft so far, the wisdom of these moves is going to depend on what our record is this year (because we gave up next years first), how Evans pans out, how long PW and SA stay around, a ton of things. So I'm not going to say that this can't turn out to be a great draft. However, my first impression is that we gave up too much to get Losman and Evans and I think our 1st and 2nd this year and 1st next year could have been used to get better players. I have nothing against the players we got, and would have been pleased (not overjoyed or anything), if we drafted those two and still had next year's first.

:bf1:

Well put.

[Nighthawk]

Originally posted by Tatonka
my point is.. you have nothing to base your opinion on if it is good or bad on... other than a few internet hacks who said they dont like him.

you chose to listen to them, as opposed to the tons of people who said it is a great pick.. including the people who run the bills.

Wow, it never amazes me of how offended Tatonka is that somebody may have a different opinion than him. I personnaly don't know how these draft picks are going to turn out (that being said, neither do you), but this is what this board is for...to have an opinion. It seems everytime that I read a post that isn't agreeing with what you say, that post is wrong, that person is unknowledgable, doesn't know football and oh yeah, knows less than you! Everybody has an opinion and not everybody is going to agree...however, everybody should respect each person's right to have that opinion and to voice it!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Tatonka
it is a hell of alot easier to be pessimitic than it is to be optimistic.

just so you know.

Jesus Christ!

I'm with you about not liking negative nancies, but you have been on an all out campaign.

Let people share their opinions for heavans sake!!!!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
Wow, it never amazes me of how offended Tatonka is that somebody may have a different opinion than him. I personnaly don't know how these draft picks are going to turn out (that being said, neither do you), but this is what this board is for...to have an opinion. It seems everytime that I read a post that isn't agreeing with what you say, that post is wrong, that person is unknowledgable, doesn't know football and oh yeah, knows less than you! Everybody has an opinion and not everybody is going to agree...however, everybody should respect each person's right to have that opinion and to voice it!


I could not agree more!

[shelby]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
Wow, it never amazes me of how offended Tatonka is that somebody may have a different opinion than him. I personnaly don't know how these draft picks are going to turn out (that being said, neither do you), but this is what this board is for...to have an opinion. It seems everytime that I read a post that isn't agreeing with what you say, that post is wrong, that person is unknowledgable, doesn't know football and oh yeah, knows less than you! Everybody has an opinion and not everybody is going to agree...however, everybody should respect each person's right to have that opinion and to voice it!
Excellent post.:bf1: Debate all you'd like, but please don't insult the intelligence of other posters.

Originally posted by billsfanone
Jesus Christ!

I'm with you about not liking negative nancies, but you have been on an all out campaign.

Let people share their opinions for heavans sake!!!!

Holy :angry:...i agree with bf1.:jawdrop:

[TedMock]

:log:

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by shelby
Holy :angry:...i agree with bf1.:jawdrop:

Uh oh! :ontome:

:D

[Nighthawk]

Originally posted by shelby
Excellent post.:bf1: Debate all you'd like, but please don't insult the intelligence of other posters.


Holy :angry:...i agree with bf1.:jawdrop:


Thank you.

[CWOUSARET]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i absolutely was.

but i am also able to see that we added a great wr and a great qb prospect, and dont think i am smarter than TD.

i am not willing to condem these kids 24 hours after the franchise chose them to be our future.

"and dont think i am smarter than TD." - no worries there!

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by BillsMan80
Exactly, I know that Hoge thinks Losman was not a smart pick, but Salisbury was gushing at it and was this close to pronouncing him the next Brett Favre. TD did what he felt we needed, and I trust him until these guys prove they can't cut on the field.


So the former NFL Quarterback who turned down Dennis Green's offer to be the Card's QB coach likes the QB, while the former NFL running back, who retired due to too many concussions, hates the pick.

I'm not a SS fan, I think he's a bit cocky and arrogant- but I'll take his opinion's over Hoge any day

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Tatonka
my point is.. you have nothing to base your opinion on if it is good or bad on... other than a few internet hacks who said they dont like him.

you chose to listen to them, as opposed to the tons of people who said it is a great pick.. including the people who run the bills.


Tom Donehoe had Losman in Buffalo for workouts before the draft. Sam Wyche interviewed him. They all looked at him during the combine.


Did Dan Pompei work him out in person? The Draft sites? Mel Kiper?

All of those guys are going off what they read, what they see on TV, and tons of mis-information leaked to them by other clubs.

The NFL uses half of these pundits as tools. It obviously worked.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by Dozerdog

I'm not a SS fan, I think he's a bit cocky and arrogant- but I'll take his opinion's over Hoge any day

And he's kinda cool just to shoot the **** with (Salibury, that is).

[L.A. Playa]

Pessimism is part of the culture when you live in Buffalo. LMAO

I agree with Tatonka just because you research and read all the little profiles on a player before the draft and fall in love with a guy doesn't mean he will be picked.

There are alot of intangibles that fans do not know about guys. I heard an interesting comment during the draft they said that the Patrioits GM and coach are on the same page about the type of player they select and type of player that fits their system, that is why they are succesful.

I kinds of think Gregg Williams was our BIG problem the last few years. Donahoe has the blueprint but GW was so arrogant and hard headed he tried to fit square pegs in round holes. Seems like Mularkey is gonna work with Donahoe and place players in situations they can suceed not situation that the coach's system works or you are dumb idiot get it right I"M the teacher. We shall see for sure.

The positive of this draft is our D is relatively young with backups and other positions who could step up in a year or so.

We needed a young QB and WR who could possibly take over for Bledsoe and Moulds. We potentially got a lethal offensive trio that could be awesome for the next 5-7 years in Losman Evans and Mc Gahee, everythingcould fall apart but for a 1st next year and a 5th that wouldnt contribute this year (considering Losman is our 2nd) I would say at this point we STOLE Losman from the Cowboys to move up over 20 spots come on dont compare the SD NYG trade they moved up only 3 spots this looks like it could be an awesome draft if our coaches coach and dont TEACH

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by pmacla
. Seems like Mularkey is gonna work with Donahoe and place players in situations they can suceed not situation that the coach's system works or you are dumb idiot get it right I"M the teacher. We shall see for sure.

That "coach's system works or you are dumb" philosophy is exactly what the Pats do, the team you want us to emulate. They pick players that are good for their system (as you said), they don't adjust their system signifcantly to fit their players.

If Donahoe didn't get players that fit in with GW and KG, that's not solely GW's fault. It means there was a miscommunication and that both are at fault.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by pmacla
Pessimism is part of the culture when you live in Buffalo. LMAO


Hmmm... I wonder if losing 4 straight Super Bowls, getting robbed in the Stanley Cup by Hull's skate in the crease and the illegal "Home Run Throwforward" has anything to do with that. ;)

[L.A. Playa]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical


Hmmm... I wonder if losing 4 straight Super Bowls, getting robbed in the Stanley Cup by Hull's skate in the crease and the illegal "Home Run Throwforward" has anything to do with that. ;)

No I think its in Lake Erie thats why I moved to Los Angeles JK
don't wanna piss of Buffalonioans I live in LA casue mmpre money to be made :party:

[TigerJ]

Originally stated by Pmacla

Pessimism is part of the culture when you live in Buffalo.

It's not just sports circumstances that have contributed to that, and not just Buffalo that experiences it. It is chronic high unemployment and the continual state of recession that has existed in Western New York as long as I can remember. When did western New York actually participate in economic boom times? I can't remember.

It's kind of funny. Tatonka and I disagreed about what the Bills should/would do in the draft, but I never felt like I was being attacked. I thought we disagreed quite agreeably.

[L.A. Playa]

Originally posted by HenryRules


That "coach's system works or you are dumb" philosophy is exactly what the Pats do, the team you want us to emulate. They pick players that are good for their system (as you said), they don't adjust their system signifcantly to fit their players.

If Donahoe didn't get players that fit in with GW and KG, that's not solely GW's fault. It means there was a miscommunication and that both are at fault.

That may be true but obviously Belechik and his staff garnered alot more repect from his players even if they hated him than good old GReeggo did

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
Wow, it never amazes me of how offended Tatonka is that somebody may have a different opinion than him.

glad i can keep you amazed.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by HenryRules
That "coach's system works or you are dumb" philosophy is exactly what the Pats do, the team you want us to emulate. They pick players that are good for their system (as you said), they don't adjust their system signifcantly to fit their players.

If Donahoe didn't get players that fit in with GW and KG, that's not solely GW's fault. It means there was a miscommunication and that both are at fault.



I think the biggest problem was that there was no system - or better yet- the players to run whatever system Gilbride ran just don't exist.