Profootball talk calls out Teflon Tom Donahoe

[Stewie]

From www.profootballtalk.com

"BUFFALO'S "NEW ERA" IS SHORT-LIVED



Lost in the Buffalo Bills' decision to trade back into round one to draft quarterback J.P. Losman is the fact that the Bills supposedly acquired their starting quarterback for the balance of the decade when they picked up Drew Bledsoe on day two of the 2002 draft, for a first-round pick in 2003.

And let's not forget the pomp and circumstance that accompanied G.M. Tom Donahoe's supposed coup that brought the 1993 No. 1 overall pick to Buffalo for less than, as Donahoe claimed, he ultimately would have given up. There was a rally complete with a marching band, and glowing praise from the team's 80-something owner, Ralph Wilson.

"This is a big day for Buffalo and particularly the Buffalo Bills," Wilson said the day that Bledsoe was introduced to a four-figure throng of fans. "When I saw all the people outside, I thought this was the first day of the season. You've given the area a spark and I know you have certainly given me a spark because I am looking forward to the start of the season."

Added former Bills guard Ruben Brown, who was cut earlier this year and later signed by the Bears, "Thank God that a guy like [Bledsoe] is coming so we can put all of the past behind us, because we're truly starting over right now. You can honestly say that this is a new era."

And when Bledsoe got off to a fast start in 2002, Donahoe gushed at the team's good fortune. "Drew is perfect for our personnel. But he also is so good he covers up lots of our warts. We couldn't have gotten luckier."

And that luck resulted in a middle-of-the-road 8-8 finish in 2002, and an even luckier 6-10 record last year.

Through it all, the guy who hired coach Gregg Williams and who swung the trade for Bledsoe faces only periodic blame for the fortunes of the team. League insiders continue to be baffled by the manner in which the Bills G.M. avoids scrutiny for the team's struggles.

So what will the Teflon Donahoe say to keep his job if/when the Bills struggle in 2004? We suspect he'll tell Mr. Wilson that the team is breaking in a new coach, and that the decision to draft Losman diminished the ability of the current class of rookies to contribute right away. Donahoe also might point to No. 13 overall pick Lee Evans' torn ACL of a couple of seasons ago, since players often need a couple of years to get back to their full potential.

Of course, in 2005 Donahoe will be able to point to the fact that they're breaking in Losman.

And then by 2006 Donahoe can tell Wilson that perhaps it's time to hire a coach who's better suited to maximize Losman's skills.



Through it all, Donahoe likely will continue to escape criticism, largely since the national media is reluctant to call out a guy who deftly spreads the scoop as a quid pro quo for positive press.


So as long as Donahoe maintains his mastery of the media, our guess is that he'll be around for as many "new eras" as Wilson is able to live to see."

[The Spaz]

Pff anything from them I don't even bother to read.:boring:

[Dozerdog]

Mark Weiler works for PFT now?

[Michael82]

I don't know why anyone even goes to that site anymore. They are one of the worst sports sites out there and never tell any kind of fact at all, usually. They have ZERO credibility! :shakeno:

[Stewie]

LOL.

Any of you three geniuses with all the credibility: Pick one point from that story and prove it to be false.

[Jan Reimers]

Obviously, TD won't be inviting the author of this piece over for drinks and dinner anytime soon...

Although there is some merit in the article.

[Stewie]

BTW, those quotes are linked from their site.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Mark Weiler works for PFT now?

:rofl: i was gonna say the same exact thing. that looks just like a wys article.

[Dozerdog]

Of course like any fair and balanced piece- they fail to mention

2001 Cap situation he inherited

2001 Draft where he picked up incredible talent with trades
2002 draft which he did reasonably well



1) Spikes acquisition
2) Milloy Acquisiton
3) Posey
4) Fletcher
5) Vincent

Bringing in LeBeau- and turning around the worst defense into the best defense

6) Manufacturing a first rounder when he had crap to deal with in the Price situation.

7) Getting a RB who would have been a top 5 pick in the draft this year in last year's draft

8) Allthough it's early- getting good value in this year's draft.


Anybody can sit back and play 20/20 hindsight 2 years later. I wonder what PFT was saying about the Bledsoe deal in 2002?

[LtBillsFan66]

Yeah good point dozer. Everyone knocks his drafts, but look at the FA pickups!!!

[Stewie]

That is a good point Dozer, but that's not the point of the piece. The point of the piece is all of that stuff you mentioned is the only stuff the media brings up.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by paulB
That is a good point Dozer, but that's not the point of the piece. The point of the piece is all of that stuff you mentioned is the only stuff the media brings up.

I don't beleive that. The 6-10 record last year is a black eye enough. Every major publication ripped GW as being inept- and TD hired him.

But thankfully, we have an owner who is not a knee-jerk FFL wannabe (See Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones) and who has been around long enough to realize what stability and sound decision making in the front office brings.

Buffalo is a city that does not have sell outs regardless of records. They need long term planning to continue sell that place out. Dan Snyder can afford to roll the dice with crazy acquisitions because he's got guaranteed sellouts for 20 years regardless of the team's records.

Buffalo needs sound drafts and economic (Salary Cap) planning to remain good. Tom Donehoe's record of consistently putting out a winner despite the cap is a proven one- his Steeler teams continally were at the top of the AFC despite massive losses of top players every year. (K Greene, LLoyd for example)

You can't take crap and turn it to gold overnight. I'll grant you we are 1 or 2 years behind schedule because of TD's big mistake- Hiring GW as his first act. But all his other moves- including Bledsoe at the time- were the best ones he could have made.

Where else are you going to find a Pro-Bowl QB for $5 million with another team eating over $7 million of his bonus? (NE)

If Mularkey and Wyche turn out to be incompitent boobs like the last bunch- TD is on the hot seat. But from what we have seen and heard from them so far- he's made no blunders so far.

[juice]

Look at TD draft choices over his tenure.. not too impressive due to lack of productivity, maybe WM will pay off this year?

[Stewie]

Originally posted by Dozerdog


I don't beleive that. The 6-10 record last year is a black eye enough. Every major publication ripped GW as being inept- and TD hired him.

But thankfully, we have an owner who is not a knee-jerk FFL wannabe (See Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones) and who has been around long enough to realize what stability and sound decision making in the front office brings.

Buffalo is a city that does not have sell outs regardless of records. They need long term planning to continue sell that place out. Dan Snyder can afford to roll the dice with crazy acquisitions because he's got guaranteed sellouts for 20 years regardless of the team's records.

Buffalo needs sound drafts and economic (Salary Cap) planning to remain good. Tom Donehoe's record of consistently putting out a winner despite the cap is a proven one- his Steeler teams continally were at the top of the AFC despite massive losses of top players every year. (K Greene, LLoyd for example)

You can't take crap and turn it to gold overnight. I'll grant you we are 1 or 2 years behind schedule because of TD's big mistake- Hiring GW as his first act. But all his other moves- including Bledsoe at the time- were the best ones he could have made.

Where else are you going to find a Pro-Bowl QB for $5 million with another team eating over $7 million of his bonus? (NE)

If Mularkey and Wyche turn out to be incompitent boobs like the last bunch- TD is on the hot seat. But from what we have seen and heard from them so far- he's made no blunders so far.

I agree with most of what you said. Lets also remember, however, that GW sounded real good when he arrived.

I am a fan of Donahoe's and generally hs does make good decisions but I read those alot. But he has made other questionable decisions in my mind other than just Bledsoe for a 1st rounder. He has ignored the offensive line imo. Also, he did not take charge and show Kevin Gilbride the door when it was obvious he had no future in Buffalo, and when the season was still possibly salvageable.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by juice
Look at TD draft choices over his tenure.. not too impressive due to lack of productivity, maybe WM will pay off this year?

Name his failures.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by paulB
Through it all, the guy who hired coach Gregg Williams and who swung the trade for Bledsoe faces only periodic blame for the fortunes of the team. League insiders continue to be baffled by the manner in which the Bills G.M. avoids scrutiny for the team's struggles.



And of course, our always reliable (but never named) "League sources" who "Scratch their heads in disbeleif" that TD still has a job-

I can guarantee you that if TD was on the market- he would have his choice of jobs. He is still one of the most respected front office guys in the NFL. Statements like that just shred any credibility the story has.

[juice]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Name his failures.

Show the Production his draft picks have had.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by juice
Look at TD draft choices over his tenure.. not too impressive due to lack of productivity, maybe WM will pay off this year?

Compare Buffalo's last 3 drafts to other teams in the league. it's the only measuring stick.

If a draft class is weak (like 2003) and 80% of the teams fare as good or worse than Buffalo (due to overll lack of talent)- how can you call TD a failure?

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by juice
Show the Production his draft picks have had.

LMAO your going to make it that easy? Schobel, Henry, Jennings, Clements, Wire, Sullivan, Williams. that's just what he has done with the Bills I only knowof one 1st round player for the steelers who didn't turn out for them who TD drafted that was Troy Edwards. I'm sure more people can back me up on this as well.

[juice]

Maybe I should have said Positive Production... Jennings was the second best lineman on the worst line in Bills history if you see that as a positive.

Clements Int. fell way off last year which along with AW lack of production made our DB one of the worst in that category..

Sullivan was benched and Williams maybe should have been benched.

Wire is wasted talent and wasted youth, maybe he will be better used this year in a nickle package.

After those first two, the list got alot thinner as far as Production.

In Williams case its performance and not potential.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by paulB
I agree with most of what you said. Lets also remember, however, that GW sounded real good when he arrived.

I am a fan of Donahoe's and generally hs does make good decisions but I read those alot. But he has made other questionable decisions in my mind other than just Bledsoe for a 1st rounder. He has ignored the offensive line imo. Also, he did not take charge and show Kevin Gilbride the door when it was obvious he had no future in Buffalo, and when the season was still possibly salvageable.

I hear ya-

On the OL- if you were looking for a quick fix in free agency or the draft you weren't going to find one this year- at least not yet (Let's see what June 1 brings). The OL draft was very weak. Only a dozen OL men were even selected in the first 5 rounds. Even San Diego, with only 3 returning OL men out of 11- didn't draft any early. That speaks volumes. Villarrial will help- I liked Ruben but he was getting long in the tooth and to expensive- and free agents like Woody were outrageously expensive. Buffalo's run blocking wasn't that bad- I think an offensive scheme that did not factor in blocking had a huge role in the offensive failures.


On Gillbride-

This is a tough one. Unless you have complete anarchy- you never see a coaching change mid-season. When upper management steps in to make a change in a futile attempt to make the playoffs-it sends out a loud and clear signal to potential new hires that management will meddle in your affairs. You could have scratched Coughlin, Mularkey, and Weis off your short lists of coaches if you start meddleing in your staff affairs.

Look at management that does this- again back to Jones and Snyder- they have meddled in coaching staffs before and in the end those franchises have become coaching carousells. Pretty soon- ou have to offer a coach 5-6 Million- (3-5 times going market rate) to get interest. Mularkey shot down the Bengals offer last season- a team with a history of mid-season coaching changes. With bad coaching decisions- you have to eat the season. He gave GW a couple of mulligans and opportunities to turn it around- (2 OL coaches, 2 OC's, LeBeau) and that raises the stock and reputation of a GM as a good one to work for rather than a team to avoid.

Football is a game where a lot of the success /failures begin and end months before the season starts - game plans, plays, schemes are all drawn up. Unlike Baseball, football, or Hockey- in those sports coaches have a much less of an impact on how the game is eventually executed.

[Earthquake Enyart]

All flaming aside, it's time to for the clock to start ticking on TD.

If I were Ralph, I'd send a brinks truck to Ron Wolfe's house and fire TD in a heartbeat.

We were 6-10 last year, remember?

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
All flaming aside, it's time to for the clock to start ticking on TD.

If I were Ralph, I'd send a brinks truck to Ron Wolfe's house and fire TD in a heartbeat.

We were 6-10 last year, remember?

We had idiots for coaches too remember?:snicker:

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by juice
Maybe I should have said Positive Production... Jennings was the second best lineman on the worst line in Bills history if you see that as a positive.


Worst line in Bills History? I thought they had the best player in Bills history, Ruben Brown? :huh:

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by The Spaz
We had idiots for coaches too remember?:snicker:

Remember who hired the idiot coaches?

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
All flaming aside, it's time to for the clock to start ticking on TD.

If I were Ralph, I'd send a brinks truck to Ron Wolfe's house and fire TD in a heartbeat.

We were 6-10 last year, remember?

We don't have a Brinks truck. We only have Phil's Chevy Cavalier

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Remember who hired the idiot coaches?


Yeah I do. I also don't think firing him after a year or 2 would leave a good impression on other coaches concidering the Buffalo job.

[juice]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Worst line in Bills History? I thought they had the best player in Bills history, Ruben Brown? :huh:

Can you count to Nine?

[juice]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Worst line in Bills History? I thought they had the best player in Bills history, Ruben Brown? :huh:

In a Row... anyone else trying to extend this type of Pro Bowl streak with a new team.

[Dozerdog]

I'd rank last yrear's line on talent as 5th best in Bills History


1- Elecric company-

Greene, Joe D, Montler, Reggie McKenzie , Foley


2- Kelly's line

Ballard, Hull, Ritcher, Wolford, ect...

3-AFL Championship line-

Barber, Bemiller, Shaw ect.....

This line is comparable to the one Knox had in the early 1980's. You can't argue with the results from Henry. With 5 guys in patterns every play- you can't hold back 6-7 blitzers no matter how good you are.


Buffalo has had a lot worse for lines- 1968-1971 was the absolute worst lines in league history, let alone team history. 2000-2001's line sucked way worse than this one. 1984-85 was horrid too.

[HAMMER]

Give the guy some rope for God's sake! It takes time to develop players, he had gutted the roster of the experienced vets due to cap. His drafts have been just fine, GM's admit that if you hit 40-50 percent on your drafts you are on line. I think the McGahee-Henry situation will be the deciding factor for Donahoe's legacy in Buffalo, not Bledsoe. If McGahee is a super stud (IMO he isn't going to really take off until the end of the season or next year due to his knee, see Edge and J. Lewis) His FA moves with the exception of Bledsoe have panned out well, Fletcher, Spikes, Milloy, Adams.

Stop being so critical and have faith in the Bills organization. I am so sick of the whiney posts, get over it!

[juice]

Originally posted by Dozerdog

1- Elecric company-

Greene, Joe D, Montler, Reggie McKenzie , Foley




Now That was a run blocking line..

I dont know if I would rate last years line very high at all in run blocking... the first two games they didn't open holes and to be a great Run line you have to be able to impose your will and dominate.

Last years line was worse in pass blocking than in the RJ & Flutie days.

Can you imajine anyone Questioning whether OJ had the ability to read blocks or find holes..The E Co. would have blown a DT or LB out of the hole.

[Dozerdog]

2 consecutive years totalling 2800 yards for Henry? What else do you need?

[juice]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
2 consecutive years totalling 2800 yards for Henry? What else do you need?

QB Protection and a Wild card game... Anyone can run up totals in garbage time... That line did it's best work when the season was already a loss and they had completely abandoned any type of pass blocking.

Games 1 & 2 when they had to pass block to win the game they were inaffective in the Run game.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by HAMMER
Give the guy some rope for God's sake! It takes time to develop players, he had gutted the roster of the experienced vets due to cap. His drafts have been just fine, GM's admit that if you hit 40-50 percent on your drafts you are on line. I think the McGahee-Henry situation will be the deciding factor for Donahoe's legacy in Buffalo, not Bledsoe. If McGahee is a super stud (IMO he isn't going to really take off until the end of the season or next year due to his knee, see Edge and J. Lewis) His FA moves with the exception of Bledsoe have panned out well, Fletcher, Spikes, Milloy, Adams.

Stop being so critical and have faith in the Bills organization. I am so sick of the whiney posts, get over it!


I hear what you're saying, but this is year 4 of TD. All I'm saying is that the clock should be ticking by now.

[McBFLO]

Originally posted by Mikey82
I don't know why anyone even goes to that site anymore. They are one of the worst sports sites out there and never tell any kind of fact at all, usually. They have ZERO credibility! :shakeno:

Amen Brutha!

[BuffaloRanger]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
2 consecutive years totalling 2800 yards for Henry? What else do you need?

How about a year in which the Bills don't lead the NFL in sacks allowed? Is that too much to ask?

50+ 2 years running. I really like McNally but his line in NYG gave up 44 sacks last season. The chargers with the worst record in football dumped over half their lineman after giving up...only 29. Sometimes you need talent not just great coaching. And you can't tell me the bills line improved talent-wise from last year.

[chernobylwraiths]

Originally posted by juice


QB Protection and a Wild card game... Anyone can run up totals in garbage time... That line did it's best work when the season was already a loss and they had completely abandoned any type of pass blocking.

Games 1 & 2 when they had to pass block to win the game they were inaffective in the Run game.

I've never heard of run yardage as garbage time before. Usually when you are running the ball, you are close or ahead. Plus, we have mostly complained about the Bills not running the ball enough. I just don't understand your rationale.

[Voltron]

Originally posted by juice
Maybe I should have said Positive Production... Jennings was the second best lineman on the worst line in Bills history if you see that as a positive.



Mark my words. Jennings will be one of the MOST sought after FA O-linemen at the end of the year! Unless we some how resign him. He is the best lineman we have right now by far. Big Mike has not shown he was worth the 4th pick yet but I think he may this year.

[juice]

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
I've never heard of run yardage as garbage time before. Usually when you are running the ball, you are close or ahead. Plus, we have mostly complained about the Bills not running the ball enough. I just don't understand your rationale.

You probably wont understand me if you think we need to Run the ball that much more, when we just drafted one of the fastest Humans in the Draft 1st rd.

By garbage time I mean the period every year around Oct. when it becomes apparent that we are not going to the post season.


Originally posted by juice
That line did it's best work when the season was already a loss and they had completely abandoned any type of pass blocking.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by juice
You probably wont understand me if you think we need to Run the ball that much more, when we just drafted one of the fastest Humans in the Draft 1st rd.

By garbage time I mean the period every year around Oct. when it becomes apparent that we are not going to the post season.

Every year around October? We started 5-3 in 2002, and at the beginning of October last year we were 2-2 with close losses to Miami and Philly- two top teams.


You probably wont understand me - it is always a challenge, J

[TedMock]

We'll realistically be able to judge TD's second draft after this season. Most rookies don't make a splash and I think we're all smart enough to know that it takes a good 3 years before we can even attempt to give a fair grade. As for his first draft (the only one we can grade) it was pretty good. Clements has been a starter, a good on at that, who has good coverage skills and big play ability. The lack of pass rush limits his production but he's as good as you can be with what he's given. Schobel has significantly improved each year and had 11.5 sacks last season (his 3rd!!). Travis Henry, fantastic performer for us. Jennings is our best lineman and I don't see how anybody can say that he's played poorly. He's played very well especially when considering that he's played well injured. Sullivan and Ron Edwards are still on the team as backups. Edwards looked like he was starting to have some quality snaps in the DT rotation last year but was injured and Sullivan's a decent backup. We'll see this year about 2002's draft.

[juice]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Every year around October? We started 5-3 in 2002, and at the beginning of October last year we were 2-2 with close losses to Miami and Philly- two top teams.


You probably wont understand me - it is always a challenge, J

Thats right Dog...

You are one of those "We'll run a power Run game with Henry" and "We're going to be a run team this year we're not going to take a WR with the 13th pick" and "We are fine with the Recievers we have".... I Guess TD didn't agree.

I said around October... Might have been November..But definatly Dec. whatever still resulted in a depressing New Year

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
I hear what you're saying, but this is year 4 of TD. All I'm saying is that the clock should be ticking by now.

Agreed 100%. Regardless of the reasons or situation surrounding his tenure, the bottom line is that as GM he is ultimately the man responsible for putting a winning product on the field. If after 4 years he hasn't done this, I think it is time for a change.

Now, before the TD supporters get their undies in a twist....this *doesn't* mean he necessarily sucks as a GM. This wouldn't be the first time a GM or coach has been fired simply because it wasn't working out at the time. Sometimes is just doesn't work out for whatever reason with a given team. If we have another non-winning season, it is pretty clear it is not working out.

[HenryRules]

17-31. If that's not enough for a president to have his job in question, I don't know what is.

Sugar coat it as personnel, recovering from previous admin., etc., but the point is, if our record doesn't improve soon, he needs to go.

[elltrain22]

I personally am a little leary about his draft picks over the past 3 years. I do think he is good at bringing in FA's, and his track record could be no better examplified then seeing our dee move up to the 2nd best in the league lst year.

the big question is, has he hired us the right coach this time.

[mykiljonz]

17-31