Bledsoe's salary posted on NFLPA website... [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Ebenezer

05-06-2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by NE39
Here they are:

About time...it wasn't posted yesterday...

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
So he gets $6 mil now instead of $7 in November? :snicker:

And, given this structure, he'll probably get all 3 years.

Intesting set up...Drew was set to make $5.9 mil in base salary this year...he would have then added $2 mil for the buy out or $7 mil if the Bills had opted for the bonus. Thus, he would have been paid $7.9 mil at the minumum and $12.9 mil at maximum. Either way his cap number would have been about $8 mil for 2004.

It appears that Drew will end up getting $8.25 mil this year (very similar to what he would have earned had they opted not to pick up the option).

However, the devil is in the details...the deal saves the Bills approx. $2.7 mil in 2005 (over what they would have had to pay DB had they exercised the bonus) and $2.0 mil in 2006. Not a bad deal if they wanted to keep DB long term. The only other way to save more money would have been to cut him out right before the beginning of the season. At which point, you have to answer the question of "who do you want at QB" (give me a realistic name or don't reply).

Originally posted by Tatonka
i havent seen his sb listed anywhere.. i would like to see that.. because if it is 6 million.. then we jsut dug ourselves a bigger hole and it will cost us 4 million to cut him next season.

Should the Bills decide to cut him after 2/1/05 they would save $1.5 mil on the salary cap (if his SB is truly amoritized at $2 mil a year). Again, the only other way to save more money would have been to cut him out right before the beginning of the season. The only way to ***** about this deal is to admit that you do not want DB as the Bills QB no matter the deal...if that is true please provide a legitimate alternative or don't reply.

lordofgun

05-06-2004, 02:16 PM

:hail:Eb

AdamJT13

05-06-2004, 02:34 PM

Bledsoe's signing bonus was $6.5 million. He also has roster bonuses of $1.05 million in each of 2005 and 2006, $750,000 in LTBE incentives for 2006 and an escalator clause that could increase his base salary in 2006.

His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668

Michael82

05-06-2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by AdamJT13
Bledsoe's signing bonus was $6.5 million. He also has roster bonuses of $1.05 million in each of 2004 and 2006, $750,000 in LTBE incentives for 2006 and an escalator clause that could increase his base salary in 2006.

His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668

Hmmm, where did you find those? I don't remember seeing it anywhere. I'm surprised that TD gave him a $6.5 million signing bonus. It seems a little high. Also, I heard that he does have a bunch of other bonuses and options in his contract.

Ebenezer

05-06-2004, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Mikey82
Hmmm, where did you find those? I don't remember seeing it anywhere. I'm surprised that TD gave him a $6.5 million signing bonus. It seems a little high. Also, I heard that he does have a bunch of other bonuses and options in his contract.

Mikey...the man knows what he speaks of...along with the numbers on NFLPA I would say those are EXTREMELY reliable...

Adam, welcome to the Zone!! Glad to have you aboard.

Ebenezer

05-06-2004, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by AdamJT13
His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668

I believe you meant he has a roster bonus in 2005 and 2006...Those are his cap numbers including the roster bonuses and LTBEs, correct?

justasportsfan

05-06-2004, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by AdamJT13
Bledsoe's signing bonus was $6.5 million. He also has roster bonuses of $1.05 million in each of 2004 and 2006, $750,000 in LTBE incentives for 2006 and an escalator clause that could increase his base salary in 2006.

His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668 Welcome. Don't worry about Mikey, he get's excited w/ the mere thought of "Disney on Ice" coming to town. :D

Michael82

05-06-2004, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Welcome. Don't worry about Mikey, he get's excited w/ the mere thought of "Disney on Ice" coming to town. :D

bite me!

Novacane

05-06-2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by AdamJT13
Bledsoe's signing bonus was $6.5 million. He also has roster bonuses of $1.05 million in each of 2004 and 2006, $750,000 in LTBE incentives for 2006 and an escalator clause that could increase his base salary in 2006.

His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668

He gets a 6.5 mill bonus? And people have been calling him a saint. :shakeno:

Michael82

05-06-2004, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
He gets a 6.5 mill bonus? And people have been calling him a saint. :shakeno:

That's what I'm saying. If those are the right numbers...I'm very disappointed.

AdamJT13

05-06-2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Ebenezer

I believe you meant he has a roster bonus in 2005 and 2006...

Yes, sorry about the typo. I fixed it.

Those are his cap numbers including the roster bonuses and LTBEs, correct?

Correct.

Goobylal

05-06-2004, 04:24 PM

From where did you get the contract details? If true, then it's basically a 2-year contract for $11M, with $6.05M in cap savings in 2006, although with a $2.167M dead cap charge.

Tatonka

05-06-2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
He gets a 6.5 mill bonus? And people have been calling him a saint. :shakeno:

exactly.. poor drew.. taking one for the team since money is not a concern and just winning a championship is.. whatever.. he still got a boat load of money.. and he basically ensured that he will be with the bills for at least 2 more years.. great.

HenryRules

05-06-2004, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Ebenezer

Should the Bills decide to cut him after 2/1/05 they would save $1.5 mil on the salary cap (if his SB is truly amoritized at $2 mil a year). Again, the only other way to save more money would have been to cut him out right before the beginning of the season. The only way to ***** about this deal is to admit that you do not want DB as the Bills QB no matter the deal...if that is true please provide a legitimate alternative or don't reply.

Actually, I believe we could have saved more money by signing Drew to a lower-valued contract. You're implying that the options were: this contract, cut him, or the previous contract. There's a variety of other options with Drew that were there (we don't know what the terms would be for a 2 year deal, whether we could have negotiated lower, etc. - but there were definitely more than those 3 options). We re-negotiated to this value and got taken. Yes, this saves us money vs. not renegging, but that doesn't mean that it's the best reneg we could have done.

His cap # is low this year, but an average cap hit of 6.5 mil or so over 3 years is way too much considering his production last year. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Collins (a similarly valued player IMO) signs for less than that amount.

HenryRules

05-06-2004, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Goobylal
From where did you get the contract details? If true, then it's basically a 2-year contract for $11M, with $6.05M in cap savings in 2006, although with a $2.167M dead cap charge.

I think it's more like 13 mil for 2 years (4.4 + 6.5 + 2.1).

I also don't see it as 6.05M in cap savings in 2006. After drafting Losman, I don't think there's any reason for us to plan to have another QB on the roster in 2006 that costs us 2.1 in cap space. We should be planning on having Losman start by then and 2.1 is too much for a backup. yes, Losman may not pan out, but that's 3 years away and in the sal. cap era I don't think you use a 1st, 2nd, and 5th to draft a QB and then immediately plan for his failure.

Mr. Cynical

05-06-2004, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by AdamJT13
Bledsoe's signing bonus was $6.5 million. He also has roster bonuses of $1.05 million in each of 2005 and 2006, $750,000 in LTBE incentives for 2006 and an escalator clause that could increase his base salary in 2006.

His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668

***WARNING! Please take 3 steps back from your PC.***

WTF???!!!?!?!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!?!?!

IS TD A COMPLETE IDIOT?!?!?!!

THIS IS A F**KING JOKE!!!!!!!

***NOTICE: You may now resume normal viewing distance. Thank you.***

Seriously, this does not look like a good situation at all. I was "okay" with $4.3M for this year, but $6.5M next year? $8.3 after that? :cynic:

There better be a damn good out clause if Drew s**ts the bed this year or I will personally picket OBD for TD's resignation. :flex:

Tatonka

05-06-2004, 07:21 PM

if he is so god damn ok w/ money and just wants to win.. wtf did he need a signing bonus at all.

he didnt redo his deal because he wants to be a winner.. he redid his deal because it was the only way he was going to get the money that he is going to end up making now.

HenryRules

05-06-2004, 07:24 PM

So if DB plays in 2006 and JP signs a standard 1st round QB contract, we're gonna have a bunch of money tied up in 2 QB's. ****, Butler's back from the grave.

Tatonka

05-06-2004, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by HenryRules
So if DB plays in 2006 and JP signs a standard 1st round QB contract, we're gonna have a bunch of money tied up in 2 QB's. ****, Butler's back from the grave.

it will never happen. there is no way that both those qbs are on the roster at those salaries in 3 years.

The_Philster

05-06-2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
it will never happen. there is no way that both those qbs are on the roster at those salaries in 3 years.

I agree. I still think Bledsoe is gone after 2 unless Losman looks to be a bust AND Bledsoe plays out his ass the next 2 seasons.

bills_phan

05-06-2004, 09:20 PM

What a bunch of whiney *****es some of you are!

Goobylal

05-06-2004, 10:19 PM

Yeah, shut up and see how the season plays out first. Jeez!

As for Losman, he'll sign a contract for 5 years and about $8M, which is a little more than Rex Grossman got last year, at the same spot in the draft.

Mr. Cynical

05-06-2004, 10:49 PM

It's not a matter of whining....its a matter of sanity. Giving Drew that kind of money......again.....is crazy. The only plan that makes sense to me is to make it HEAVILY incentive-based. Otherwise Drew once again goes lauging all the way to the bank as he's done for 11 years. Again, can't say I blame him....if someone is stupid enough to pay, then more power to him. I just wish it wasn't the Bills being taken to the cleaners.

Dozerdog

05-06-2004, 10:56 PM

http://tv.gif.ru/day/run.gif

Who needs Bills radio? We got BillsZone TV! Must be an even number date- that's "jump off the ledge- we are all going to die " day. Odd numbered days we go to the Super Bowl.

Mr. Cynical

05-06-2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
http://tv.gif.ru/day/run.gif

Looks like fun! :D

Dozerdog

05-06-2004, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by AdamJT13
Bledsoe's signing bonus was $6.5 million. He also has roster bonuses of $1.05 million in each of 2005 and 2006, $750,000 in LTBE incentives for 2006 and an escalator clause that could increase his base salary in 2006.

His cap numbers --

2004 $4,416,666
2005 $6,516,666
2006 $8,316,668

I'm comfortable with the first 2 seasons - he will not see season #3 (or re-do the deal again)

Considering the cost of other QBs out there, and their baggage as well- It's really not a horrid number.

Funny to see the guys who spent all year ripping the guy go into caniption fits because it's not a 50% cut.

I don't want Kerry Collins, Kurt Warner, or give up picks for Tim Couch

lordofgun

05-06-2004, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by bills_phan
What a bunch of whiney *****es some of you are!

And you'd NEVER whine!

LtBillsFan66

05-06-2004, 11:13 PM

Tatonka

05-06-2004, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by bills_phan
What a bunch of whiney *****es some of you are!

great post.. love the explaination.

Michael82

05-07-2004, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
http://tv.gif.ru/day/run.gif

Who needs Bills radio? We got BillsZone TV! Must be an even number date- that's "jump off the ledge- we are all going to die " day. Odd numbered days we go to the Super Bowl.

*Looks at calendar...*

We are going to the Super Bowl! The Bills are awesome! We have the talent and the coaching staff, we are destined for the big game, with Bledsoe at the helm. :D

:ontome:

BillsFever

05-07-2004, 02:49 AM

What a great team player Bledsoe is. Umm, wrong again Bledsoe lovers.

Nobody else besides Teflon Tom would've given him that much money. What a bunch of crap.

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by bills_phan
What a bunch of whiney *****es some of you are!

:bf1:

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka

great post.. love the explaination.

Very Wysesc response.

No one is aloud to make a simple statement without having to justify it with redundant monologue.

:deadhorse

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 06:37 AM

I wish to GOD that you people would all have your salaries posted on the internet and have a bunch of "whiny *****es" cry about how you should be making much less.

Earthquake Enyart

05-07-2004, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
if he is so god damn ok w/ money and just wants to win.. wtf did he need a signing bonus at all.

he didnt redo his deal because he wants to be a winner.. he redid his deal because it was the only way he was going to get the money that he is going to end up making now.

One hand washes the other. TD had to give Drew a sizable signing bonus to get him to restructure. I think it's win-win for both TD and Drew.

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
One hand washes the other. TD had to give Drew a sizable signing bonus to get him to restructure. I think it's win-win for both TD and Drew.

Most sane thing posted since my post...

Give it a break guys...yes he got a $6 mil signing bonus...big frikkin deal...reread my post...after the checks are handed out in week 16 he ends up getting the same amount of money total that he would have gotten had he done nothing...this is a very good contract for both sides that saves the Bills money...again, those complaining simply don't want DB as the QB and nothing short of that will make them happy. Sorry guys. This is a team move...DB makes nothing off of this if he is cut at the end of the 2004 season...if doesn't perform he'll never see 2005 and 2006 and he walks away with $8 mil just as he would have had he not renegotiated...your arguments just don't hold water...if he plays well then he will be here and he deserves an increase in salary and other bonuses...that is the way the game is played...did you really think he was going to take a 70% pay cut? Get real. Stop whining and grow up.

clumping platelets

05-07-2004, 08:18 AM

:couch:

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Very Wysesc response.

No one is aloud to make a simple statement without having to justify it with redundant monologue.

:deadhorse

big surprise that the guy that wants to make sweet love to bledsoe has a problem with what i said.. why dont you send me an email that says "**** YOU IDIOT.. I WANT TO MAKE SWEET LOVE TO BLEDSOE.. GET OFF HIS NUTS OR I WILL KILL YOU"... then you can post my response first and tell everyone how mean i am.

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
One hand washes the other. TD had to give Drew a sizable signing bonus to get him to restructure. I think it's win-win for both TD and Drew.

it is not a win for the bills if he is our qb for even 2 more years.

Originally posted by Ebenezer
Stop whining and grow up.

the message board would cease to exist if we all did that.

clumping platelets

05-07-2004, 08:54 AM

True dat

BTW: Mark this day on your calender.......I agree with Eb on this one :confused:

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
it is not a win for the bills if he is our qb for even 2 more years.

if he is our QB in 2005 and 2006 that means DB is throwing for over 3000 yds and 20 TDs and only 10-12 INTs...that probably means playoffs if the def is performing well...no problem here...you don't get it...if he is here in 2005 and 2006 that means he is playing well and deserves the money...

it's getting tiresome...admit you don't want him as the QB and that you will never be happy until that happens...renounce going to any of the games and give it a break...you are this summer's Wys and it's getting tiring...

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer
it's getting tiresome...admit you don't want him as the QB and that you will never be happy until that happens...renounce going to any of the games and give it a break...you are this summer's Wys and it's getting tiring...

hey eb.. i dont ***** about ****ing bledsoe half as much as mr. cynical or draftboy or fairway.. i also took over a month off and didnt say a ****ing word about him.. you know where the god damn ignore button is.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 09:02 AM

it is getting tiresome seeing fans like you that are content with **** box play from the qb spot... so just admit that you are content with this team never winning and that you are happy to be picking in the top of the draft every year... because it is getting tiresome that you are acting like you want us to win, when it is obvious that you dont.

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
it is getting tiresome seeing fans like you that are content with **** box play from the qb spot... so just admit that you are content with this team never winning and that you are happy to be picking in the top of the draft every year... because it is getting tiresome that you are acting like you want us to win, when it is obvious that you dont.

Don't call me out like that...I've never posted that I want the Bills to fail...I look at the situation from the standpoint of who is available, their talent and what they are going to get paid...what their contract is and how to best shape the future...there are no viable options...you want to throw Losman to the wolves...you want AVP or Travis Brown...

Give me an alternative...Brunell?? After that signing bonus and what you would have to have given up to get him? Give me a break. It's easy to *****...it's difficult to come up with a solution. Until you do, you are the fair weather fan, not I.

Earthquake Enyart

05-07-2004, 09:12 AM

Blake is still out there, wys jr.

Bledsoe starts this year. He'll be on a much shorter leash than before, more and more so as the season goes on, and if he doesn't return to form, we have the transition to JP. If that happens, Drew will be the backup next year, and they'll dump him in 2006.

I don't really see what all the wringing of hands is all about.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer
Don't call me out like that...I've never posted that I want the Bills to fail...I look at the situation from the standpoint of who is available, their talent and what they are going to get paid...what their contract is and how to best shape the future...there are no viable options...you want to throw Losman to the wolves...you want AVP or Travis Brown...

Give me an alternative...Brunell?? After that signing bonus and what you would have to have given up to get him? Give me a break. It's easy to *****...it's difficult to come up with a solution. Until you do, you are the fair weather fan, not I.

any qb in the nfl could have put up 11 tds and 24 turnovers.. if we are gonna burn three picks on a qb, put him in.. use the money on the oline.. yeah.. that is my solution.. let the rookie play.. i dont see drew as being on a short leash... he has sucked for the last season and a half here in buffalo and for about 8 out of 11 years in the nfl.. you guys know this.. but you all have this unrealistic hope that he is going to even be average, when he hasnt been most of his career.. i have always said that i hope i am wrong.. but EB.. you started all that ****.. dont ****ing call me wys.. i am not constantly negative.. i give praise where praise is due.. it just really ****ing pisses me off when someone calls me wys ****ing jr. because i dislike bledsoe as our qb.. calling someone wys jr. is the equivelant of calling someone a bullheaded fool.. and that is an insult to me.. and also a violation of the TOS.. but of coarse.. you guys wont get punished though.. you can keep antagonizing.. and will keep biting.. maybe you'll get lucking and i will get banded.. then you wont have to read the tiresome posts about bledsoe... and we can go back to the really exciting ones about "who will step up this year" or "predict our record"

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Blake is still out there, wys jr.

Bledsoe starts this year. He'll be on a much shorter leash than before, more and more so as the season goes on, and if he doesn't return to form, we have the transition to JP. If that happens, Drew will be the backup next year, and they'll dump him in 2006.

I don't really see what all the wringing of hands is all about.

perfect example.. wys jr.. ok.. i am sure you will get a warning for that right? just like i did for calling eb a jerk..

bills_phan

05-07-2004, 09:51 AM

Did you guys read that article about that kid who got all bent out of shape because he was selected to receive the 'Crybaby Award'? That was awesome.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by bills_phan
Did you guys read that article about that kid who got all bent out of shape because he was selected to receive the 'Crybaby Award'? That was awesome.

another brilliant post by a guy whose posts have added nothing of signifigance to this formum ever.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
[B]

hey eb.. i dont ***** about ****ing bledsoe half as much as mr. cynical or draftboy or fairway.. B]

I've hardly been bithching about Drew at all lately. Tat:chair: FTG

I don't mind the money he's getting the same money he would have gotten without re-doing the contract. I think it was a bad move by TD because now we take a 4 mill cap hit if we have to cut him becaue of rotten play next year.

I would have rather play on the one year tryout and go from there.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer

...you are this summer's Wys and it's getting tiring...

then don't read his posts. And you say we are the ones that need to quit whining and grow up :rolleyes:

buffmaniac

05-07-2004, 10:07 AM

Give me a break people. Why don't we ask Drew if he will play for the vet. minimum as well? Obviously if you don't like Drew you are not going to like his contract no matter what.

I personally still think Drew can play and I think that there were a ton of problems on this offense last year other than him. IMO if Drew returns to form then the 2 yrs at a 11 million or so is very fair. If he doesn't return to form, then we simply move on after this season. And also Losman will definitely be our QB in 2006 so we won't have that 8 million dollar cap number either.

Originally posted by Tatonka
he has sucked for the last season and a half here in buffalo and for about 8 out of 11 years in the nfl..

8 out of 11 yrs? The fact is Drew has had 3 bad years recently which have caused people to lose faith in him. (99 00 03) Check his teams in those years and you will see why he struggled.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
then don't read his posts. And you say we are the ones that need to quit whining and grow up :rolleyes:

thats not considered attacking the poster though apparently.. i got warned.. eb gets a laugh out of it and a slight reminder to please not call tatonka names like wys jr. oh well.

i start a drew bledsoe truce... and dont say hardly a word about him for over a month.. in the mean time, plenty of you (you, db, mr. c, alluro) continued to take shots at him.. but then as soon as i post something discouraging about our fearless leader people jump all over my ****.

get in line sheep.. get in line. :rolleyes:

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by buffmaniac
Give me a break people. Why don't we ask Drew if he will play for the vet. minimum as well?

drew didnt play well enough to earn vet min...

i am not going to debate drews seasons with you..it has been done so i was giving the guy credit for the three pro bowl seasons he had.

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
thats not considered attacking the poster though apparently.. i got warned.. eb gets a laugh out of it and a slight reminder to please not call tatonka names like wys jr. oh well.

I never called you Wys Jr...I called you this summer's Wys...huge difference...

clumping platelets

05-07-2004, 10:21 AM

This stuff needs to cease :mad:

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
drew didnt play well enough to earn vet min...

i am not going to debate drews seasons with you..it has been done so i was giving the guy credit for the three pro bowl seasons he had.

If Moulds has another bad year (injured or not) are you going to scream for him to take a massive pay cut...when somebody has a bad year, or two, or three on the job does that person ever take a pay cut?? No, they are either given their raise or they are fired...in this case there is no viable alternative to DB...you want Losman...if he goes out there and sucks this town will come down on the Bills faster than me to a pizza...you want the Bills to succeed and you call me out for hoping they fail and your alternative to DB is an untested rookie who many have doubts about...talk about putting a kid in a position to fail...talk about ensuring the lack of success of your team...you want to spend money on OL instead of QB...who should the Bills throw all this money at? Give some names...and remember that those names have to want to come here...round and round and round we go...think as a manager (and I am not talking about TD---think any job) not a fan...

buffmaniac

05-07-2004, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
drew didnt play well enough to earn vet min...

i am not going to debate drews seasons with you..it has been done so i was giving the guy credit for the three pro bowl seasons he had.

Don't you think that maybe their were more problems on this offense than Bledsoe? Don't you think that maybe Moulds' injury had something to do with our O's woes? Don't you think that maybe KG's horrible schemes had something to do with it? Do you think it is a coincidence that Pitt in 2000 struggled on offense under KG and then MM takes over in 2001, simplifies things, and suddenly Pitt is #3 on offense? Coaching and injuries has been the offensive problems for the past season and a half not Bledsoe. But I guess we will find out for sure this season.

And just for your information Drew has been to 4 Pro Bowls.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer
I never called you Wys Jr...I called you this summer's Wys...huge difference...

no.. not really, eb.. i dont see it as different at all.

Originally posted by buffmaniac
And just for your information Drew has been to 4 Pro Bowls.

i am well aware, but his probowl in 2002 was a joke.
Originally posted by Ebenezer
If Moulds has another bad year (injured or not) are you going to scream for him to take a massive pay cut...when somebody has a bad year, or two, or three on the job does that person ever take a pay cut??

yeah, i am. if moulds continues inconsistent play.. if it is an injury like last year, then i am ok with that.. but if it happens several times, then that is a trend and we dont need an injury plagued player on our team.

drews play has never been due to injury.. he is tough guy.. his play is due to an inability to look off his number one receiver.. he reliance on his arm, which makes him believe he can force the ball to a covered player (perfect example of that is when he lost the game for us in kansas city in 2002.. because he decided he wanted to be the hero and hit peerless with the long bomb with 4 minutes left, when all we needed was a FG.).. along with his inability to feel pressure in the pocket, so when he is back there holding the ball too long.. and that ball is out there like a loaf of bread.. he is gonna put it on the ground as soon as he gets hit.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 10:39 AM

There is a large segment of people here that want to run off anyone that does not talk only positive about eveything done at OBD.

NEW FLASH..........................we are as sick of your posts are you are of ours!

clumping platelets

05-07-2004, 10:42 AM

Let the respectable debate continue in a respectable manner :anvil:

Time for me to go to bed :dizzy:

Earthquake Enyart

05-07-2004, 10:43 AM

You want warnings?

I'll forward you a whole lot of warnings.

My point still stands. TD's choices:

1. Dump him now and keep the wysian crowd happy. Take a beating with Losman or some vet retread until Losman is ready.

2. Restructure like they did, and make a committment to Drew for at least 2 years, while not having the life or death decision in November that, if exercised, would have kept Drew here through 2006 at least. Either Drew comes back to Pro Bowl form, or you bench him and get rid of him after 2005 at a not so bad cap hit.

3. Stay with the current contract and :pray:

But..... if Drew AND JP fail, then it's bye bye TD time.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
You want warnings?

I'll forward you a whole lot of warnings.

My point still stands. TD's choices:

1. Dump him now and keep the wysian crowd happy. Take a beating with Losman or some vet retread until Losman is ready.

2. Restructure like they did, and make a committment to Drew for at least 2 years, while not having the life or death decision in November that, if exercised, would have kept Drew here through 2006 at least. Either Drew comes back to Pro Bowl form, or you bench him and get rid of him after 2005 at a not so bad cap hit.

3. Stay with the current contract and :pray:

But..... if Drew AND JP fail, then it's bye bye TD time.

you assume that we would take a beating with losman.. but we didnt spend 3 picks on the guy for nothing.

if our line is as average as it looks at this point.. then losman stands ALOT better chance of staying alive as opposed to lead foot.

i assume that we are gonna take a beating with bledsoe.. so why pay the guy a 6 millon dollar sb to take a beating, while your paying a 1st round qb to sit on the bench... Losman might learn how to be a good human being and a good father from bledsoe, but i sure hope bledsoe doesnt teach him anything else.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
There is a large segment of people here that want to run off anyone that does not talk only positive about eveything done at OBD.

NEW FLASH..........................we are as sick of your posts are you are of ours!

:snicker:

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:51 AM

the thing that pisses me off the most.. is that i can already hear the excuses for bledsoe's play coming up this year..

we are gonna be 1-4 after the first 5 games.. and people will be saying.. well new england knows drew.. that is why he threw 3 picks.. or it was really hot in maimi.. the whole team played bad.. that is why drew fumbled 3 times.. or the offensive line hasnt had time to gel.. or the coaches are new.. ect.. ect..

justasportsfan

05-07-2004, 10:51 AM

Tatonka is no wys jr.

BTW, when is your article coming out at billsreport.com?

:couch:

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Tatonka is no wys jr.

BTW, when is your article coming out at billsreport.com?

:couch:

thanks... **** ****

justasportsfan

05-07-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka

thanks... **** **** You hurt my feelings man especially since I was justakidding. :sadwalk:

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by justasportsfan
You hurt my feelings man especially since I was justakidding. :sadwalk:

sorry i hurt your feelings.. if it makes you feel any better.. i didnt actually call you a name.. it was just eight * symbols.

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
the thing that pisses me off the most.. is that i can already hear the excuses for bledsoe's play coming up this year..

Read it here...if he sucks like last year I will "lead the parade" calling for him to be cut...until then there is no viable alternative but to turn it over to a rookie...how many rookies have been destroyed by being put into the line of fire too soon?

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 11:14 AM

Whats Wys Jr. getting so upset about lol :)

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
There is a large segment of people here that want to run off anyone that does not talk only positive about eveything done at OBD.

Excuse me...when since did I stick my head up TDs ass? I believe I was screaming for GW's head long before anybody else on this board and blaming the administration for not getting us a DE last season...or this one...I have criticize the McGahee pick, the Denney pick, not resigning Price, not having a TE...what more do you want.

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Whats Wys Jr. getting so upset about lol :)

...don't antagoize...that provacation...

I could have editted T's post and chose not to...I don't care if it was editted, i never called him a name, I refered to his style of complaining; that is a huge difference from comparing posting styles to actually comparing personality traits.

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer

...don't antagoize...that provacation...

I could have editted T's post and chose not to...I don't care if it was editted, i never called him a name, I refered to his style of complaining; that is a huge difference from comparing posting styles to actually comparing personality traits.

thats a tame slap as opposed to what he said about me wanting to hump bledsoe or something lol. I dont want to hump Drew...only make out with him for a while lol

joking

TypicalBill

05-07-2004, 11:26 AM

Boy i cant wait for the season to start.. This offseason has lasted forever.

We're all on the same team here people :gobills:

Novacane

05-07-2004, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Whats Wys Jr. getting so upset about lol :)

post reported to moderator :snicker:

justasportsfan

05-07-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka

sorry i hurt your feelings.. if it makes you feel any better.. i didnt actually call you a name.. it was just eight * symbols. I know what it mean "LOVE DREW" :snicker:

Novacane

05-07-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe

joking

Yeah..............right!

justasportsfan

05-07-2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe

thats a tame slap as opposed to what he said about me wanting to hump bledsoe or something lol. I dont want to hump Drew...only make out with him for a while lol

joking the truth finally comes out. No wonder. I couldn't understand how anyone likes the way he plays. He's was already the most overrated "player at any position" IMO even when he was at NE. Oh well, at least we know now. :D

Earthquake Enyart

05-07-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
you assume that we would take a beating with losman.. but we didnt spend 3 picks on the guy for nothing.

if our line is as average as it looks at this point.. then losman stands ALOT better chance of staying alive as opposed to lead foot.

i assume that we are gonna take a beating with bledsoe.. so why pay the guy a 6 millon dollar sb to take a beating, while your paying a 1st round qb to sit on the bench... Losman might learn how to be a good human being and a good father from bledsoe, but i sure hope bledsoe doesnt teach him anything else.

It all depends what you think the real problem is / was. Was it GW / KG? Was it the old OL coach? Was it Mould's injury along with the lack of progress from Reed? Is it the talent on the OL? Is it Drew's talent (or lack thereof)?

Obviously, there is a train of thought that it's pretty much all Drew and we should get rid of him now. OK, Great. Like Dozer always says, what is the alternative? Some retread? It appears that TD thinks that Drew is a better option than a retread. I agree. He also is leery of Drew, hense the picks given up to get JP. I agree with this as well, but I think that if the other problems
above get fixed, Drew can perform at at least an above average level and we'll be a winning team again.

If Drew fails, then Losman gets his chance. The renegotiated contract (the initial point of this thread) gives TD an easier out if Drew fails than Drew's other contract did if Drew fails.

If both Drew and Losman fail, the finger of blame goes directly to TD.

Go ahead, flame away.

Longest EE post ever. :ee:

Novacane

05-07-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer

...what more do you want.

What more do I want? Quit ripping people who have an OPINION that Bledsoe sucks as whiners that need to grow up.

The intolerance here for differing opinions is absurd.

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

post reported to moderator :snicker:

well then i will report his post as well. we can play that game if you would like :)

Novacane

05-07-2004, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart

If Drew fails, then Losman gets his chance. The renegotiated contract (the initial point of this thread) gives TD an easier out if Drew fails than Drew's other contract did if Drew fails.

How do you figure that? Drew gets the same amount of $$$ this year under both contracts. If Drew fails under the old contract we cut him with no cap hit next year. If he fails under the new contract we take a 4mill cap hit to cut him.

TypicalBill

05-07-2004, 11:43 AM

I can feel the :heart: from way over here.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe

well then i will report his post as well. we can play that game if you would like :)

Fine by me. If we go by history T has about 1000 TOS violations comming before he catchs up to you.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by TypicalBill
We're all on the same team here people :gobills:

sometimes i question that. it seems that some people are happy with mediocraty. savior seems to be the most obvious one.

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

Fine by me. If we go by history T has about 1000 TOS violations comming before he catchs up to you.

eewwwwwwweeeeeeeeee way. i feel so ashamed. we are talking about a website right? not my criminal record. what will i ever do????????

:(

buffmaniac

05-07-2004, 11:46 AM

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka

sometimes i question that. it seems that some people are happy with mediocraty. savior seems to be the most obvious one.

just because i look at the glass as half full doesnt make me happy with mediocraty.

for some people who are complaining about being bashed for their opinions you sure arent setting a good example yourselves.

Earthquake Enyart

05-07-2004, 11:47 AM

Hey, boys. Let's talk football.

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
It all depends what you think the real problem is / was. Was it GW / KG? Was it the old OL coach? Was it Mould's injury along with the lack of progress from Reed? Is it the talent on the OL? Is it Drew's talent (or lack thereof)?

Obviously, there is a train of thought that it's pretty much all Drew and we should get rid of him now. OK, Great. Like Dozer always says, what is the alternative? Some retread? It appears that TD thinks that Drew is a better option than a retread. I agree. He also is leery of Drew, hense the picks given up to get JP. I agree with this as well, but I think that if the other problems
above get fixed, Drew can perform at at least an above average level and we'll be a winning team again.

If Drew fails, then Losman gets his chance. The renegotiated contract (the initial point of this thread) gives TD an easier out if Drew fails than Drew's other contract did if Drew fails.

If both Drew and Losman fail, the finger of blame goes directly to TD.

Go ahead, flame away.

Longest EE post ever. :ee:

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 11:48 AM

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
How do you figure that? Drew gets the same amount of $$$ this year under both contracts. If Drew fails under the old contract we cut him with no cap hit next year. If he fails under the new contract we take a 4mill cap hit to cut him.

that was exactly my point... i dont know why that is so hard to see..

you know the part i love.. the bledsoe interview where he says... "part of me wanted to go into the season with my remaining contract and play it out"... yeah.. ok.. until the other part of him told him that he has been piss poor for years and TD gave him the option of getting a free 6 million up front instead of a never to be seen 7 million in november..

i just love how the media and OBD spins everything away from drew.. he is such a saint.. hell.. last week, i was even praising him for taking a "pay cut" to help the team..

the truth will set you free. he didnt do anything but help himself.. period.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer
HELLO!!! That is the $4 mil we saved this year with the restructure...pay now or pay later...other than DB gone what do you want??

hmm.. good point eb.. didnt really think of that.

if we put that 4 mill to good use by resigning schobel or something.. then i can deal with it.. but if we dont, and bledsoe plays piss poor agian this year.. then td jacked the situation up.

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
that was exactly my point... i dont know why that is so hard to see..

you know the part i love.. the bledsoe interview where he says... "part of me wanted to go into the season with my remaining contract and play it out"... yeah.. ok.. until the other part of him told him that he has been piss poor for years and TD gave him the option of getting a free 6 million up front instead of a never to be seen 7 million in november..

i just love how the media and OBD spins everything away from drew.. he is such a saint.. hell.. last week, i was even praising him for taking a "pay cut" to help the team..

the truth will set you free. he didnt do anything but help himself.. period.

for the last frikkin' time...he gets the same amount of money in 2004 regardless of the contract...the Bills save $4 mil this year on the cap...if they have to cut him before next season there is a $4mil cap hit... the money they saved in 2004...just who is getting hurt?? Explain it to me...http://images.bravenet.com/brpics/smilie/banghead.gif

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
hmm.. good point eb.. didnt really think of that.

if we put that 4 mill to good use by resigning schobel or something.. then i can deal with it.. but if we dont, and bledsoe plays piss poor agian this year.. then td jacked the situation up.

Finally...we agree...I said to Clump at lunch yesterday...priority #1 right now is to extend Schoebel's contract...if indeed Schoebel wants to be here.

TypicalBill

05-07-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
sometimes i question that. it seems that some people are happy with mediocraty. savior seems to be the most obvious one.

I think he just likes Bledsoe... he has a different opinion doesn't mean its wrong. Just like you're not crazy about Bledsoe but im sure you'll support him when gametime comes and the Bills season is on the line. Im not crazy about Bledsoe either but i also realise that last year's debacle wasn't entirely his fault. Im a Bills fan and want whats best for the Bills and IMO, whats best for the Bills is for Drew to start the season and JP to observe and learn as much as possible because we all know that Drew wont be here for long. I dont want his development to take a hit by throwing him into the fire and jeopardising (spe?) The franchise's future just because i want to win right now. When its all said and done, i dont know Drew personally so i could care less about him but as long as he's our starter and the rest of the team supports him, he has my full support. I think we all want whats best for the team and we have different opinions as to what needs to be done to accomplish that. :D

Earthquake Enyart

05-07-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
that was exactly my point... i dont know why that is so hard to see..

you know the part i love.. the bledsoe interview where he says... "part of me wanted to go into the season with my remaining contract and play it out"... yeah.. ok.. until the other part of him told him that he has been piss poor for years and TD gave him the option of getting a free 6 million up front instead of a never to be seen 7 million in november..

i just love how the media and OBD spins everything away from drew.. he is such a saint.. hell.. last week, i was even praising him for taking a "pay cut" to help the team..

the truth will set you free. he didnt do anything but help himself.. period.

Well, he certainly helped himself, but the Bills helped themselves too. Win-win. :)

justasportsfan

05-07-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer

.if they have to cut him before next season there is a $4mil cap hit... the money they saved in 2004...just who is getting hurt?? Explain it to me...[img] Saviorbledsoe? :idunno:

TypicalBill

05-07-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Well, he certainly helped himself, but the Bills helped themselves too. Win-win. :)

yep.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by TypicalBill

. Im not crazy about Bledsoe either but i also realise that last year's debacle wasn't entirely his fault.

Thats what really pisses the "bledsoe haters" of TB. We know last season was not all his fault and have said that a million times. However, We still have people like savior saying we are ignoring the other problems from last year and guys like Phil running around saying we think Kordell Stewart is a better QB than Drew. I don't have any problem with posters disagreeing with me. Saying I said things that I never did pisses me off.

TypicalBill

05-07-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Thats what really pisses the "bledsoe haters" of TB. We know last season was not all his fault and have said that a million times. However, We still have people like savior saying we are ignoring the other problems from last year and guys like Phil running around saying we think Kordell Stewart is a better QB than Drew. I don't have any problem with posters disagreeing with me. Saying I said things that I never did pisses me off.

yeah, i know what you're saying FTG...

atleast thats out of the way now and we know how we all feel about this.

justasportsfan

05-07-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

Thats what really pisses the "bledsoe haters" of TB. We know last season was not all his fault and have said that a million times. However, We still have people like savior saying we are ignoring the other problems from last year and guys like Phil running around saying we think Kordell Stewart is a better QB than Drew. I don't have any problem with posters disagreeing with me. Saying I said things that I never did pisses me off. why would anything that someone says on a MB piss you off? On second thought if anyone said I love RObosack, I'd make em' strike a pose like the Iraqis.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by justasportsfan
why would anything that someone says on a MB piss you off? On second thought if anyone said I love RObosack, I'd make em' strike a pose like the Iraqis.

:rofl:

TypicalBill

05-07-2004, 12:14 PM

excuse me for a sec

:pee:

ok, back to the topic... we should extend Schobel now if we get the chance.. The money we saved from Bledsoe has to be used somehow.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by buffmaniac
Good Idea! Lets play a rookie at QB. That always works. I mean come on. You act like Drew has done nothing in his career. The guy has at least proven he can be successful in this league. Why are you so against giving him a chance with this new coaching staff? I mean if Mularkey and Clements can revive Kordell and Maddox then I think they can do the same for Drew.

what had drew done to "prove he can be successful in this league"?

1 out of 6 games in the playoffs he has had more tds than turnovers? yeah.. he proved something there.. dont think i would call that success.. but he definately proved something.. he proved that if we dont have a rock solid defense and great coaching, we have no chance of winning with him in the playoffs.. he has proved that he cant win games against good teams..

that is all i can really see that he has proved.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by TypicalBill
excuse me for a sec

:pee:

ok, back to the topic... we should extend Schobel now if we get the chance.. The money we saved from Bledsoe has to be used somehow.

Yes......unless he ask for insane $$$ like Grant Winstrom got.

saviorbledsoe

05-07-2004, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka

what had drew done to "prove he can be successful in this league"?

1 out of 6 games in the playoffs he has had more tds than turnovers? yeah.. he proved something there.. dont think i would call that success.. but he definately proved something.. he proved that if we dont have a rock solid defense and great coaching, we have no chance of winning with him in the playoffs.. he has proved that he cant win games against good teams..

that is all i can really see that he has proved.

He took a team to the Superbowl in 96.

Plain and simple. Now you are going to come at me with all kinds of exuses of how it really wasnt him that did it. He had so many turnovers compared to TDs but plain and simple ..........he led a team to the Superbowl and I dont see any reason why he cant do it again.

buffmaniac

05-07-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
what had drew done to "prove he can be successful in this league"?

1 out of 6 games in the playoffs he has had more tds than turnovers? yeah.. he proved something there.. dont think i would call that success.. but he definately proved something.. he proved that if we dont have a rock solid defense and great coaching, we have no chance of winning with him in the playoffs.. he has proved that he cant win games against good teams..

that is all i can really see that he has proved.

Well Drew has gone to 4 Pro Bowls. He has led a team to the playoffs 4 times. He has led a team to a Super Bowl. In his first year in Buffalo he set 10 franchise records for a QB. I don't know I think he has proven that he can be successful.

Also by your logic I guess Tom Brady hasn't proven anything either because he has only had success when he has had a great defense and solid coaching. I guess Jim Kelly must suck as well since he was surrounded by Hall of Fame players and had a Hall of Fame coach and still couldn't win a Super Bowl.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by buffmaniac

Well Drew has gone to 4 Pro Bowls. He has led a team to the playoffs 4 times. He has led a team to a Super Bowl. In his first year in Buffalo he set 10 franchise records for a QB. I don't know I think he has proven that he can be successful.

.

Professional sports is a what have you done for me lately business. Drew has done nothing for us lately. He gets one more chance. We will see what happens.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 12:43 PM

buffmaniac

05-07-2004, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Professional sports is a what have you done for me lately business. Drew has done nothing for us lately. He gets one more chance. We will see what happens.

Fair Enough. That is all I really want. Let's just see what Drew can do with this new coaching staff. Because KG was a joke IMO

Throne Logic

05-07-2004, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by buffmaniac

Fair Enough. That is all I really want. Let's just see what Drew can do with this new coaching staff. Because KG was a joke IMO

Now, this is a statement I can finally agree with.

Drew has an irratic history. Mularky has a history of fixing these types of QBs. I'd like to see what happens with this.

Drew had to redo the deal, 'cuz there was no way that old contract would have been valid come Summertime. That November bonus would have been too much of a distraction.

JP Losman needs to go through camp without the pressure of being the starter. If he has to step in after 4 weeks, that's fine. Then he has at least had the opportunity to get his feet wet a little bit without the extreme pressure of "you're starting day-1" hanging over his head all Summer. He can concentrate on what he had to do and can let Drew take all the heat.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
He took a team to the Superbowl in 96.

Plain and simple. Now you are going to come at me with all kinds of exuses of how it really wasnt him that did it. He had so many turnovers compared to TDs but plain and simple ..........he led a team to the Superbowl and I dont see any reason why he cant do it again.

what did he do to get them to the superbowl? and how did he do in the superbowl... 2 tds and 4ints.. stellar performance considering the magnitude of the game.. or should i say, typical performance against good competition.

Originally posted by buffmaniac
Well Drew has gone to 4 Pro Bowls. He has led a team to the playoffs 4 times. He has led a team to a Super Bowl. In his first year in Buffalo he set 10 franchise records for a QB. I don't know I think he has proven that he can be successful.

Also by your logic I guess Tom Brady hasn't proven anything either because he has only had success when he has had a great defense and solid coaching. I guess Jim Kelly must suck as well since he was surrounded by Hall of Fame players and had a Hall of Fame coach and still couldn't win a Super Bowl.

i could sit here and rip apart those 10 records he got in his first year.. passing attempts in a game.. passing attempts in a season.. passing yards in a game.. in a season.. ect.. and try to explain to you how those did not help us win.. but you dont want to hear that..

all i can say is.. brady performs his best when the pressure is on.. he wins games with absolutely no threat of a running game and no big name receivers.. he makes smart plays and doesnt turn the ball over alot..

oh yeah.. and he is a 2 time superbowl mvp.. that is enough for me.. drew could have 30ints and 10 tds.. but if he played like brady in the clutch.. i could care less.. but that is not drew.. he blows up the weak teams and gets killed by the good ones.. always has.. he has won in the playoffs when he has had a good enough team around him to cover for his mistakes.. as i stated before in 6 playoff games, including the superbowl.. he has had more TDs that turnovers ONLY ONCE!!!! ONE TIME!!! how can that possibly inspire confidence?? how could you believe that he will be successful?

i get so tired of everyone making excuses for drew.. saying he his team in NE sucked, the team in buffalo sucked.. the coaching sucked.. granted... all of that may be true..

but why is farve successful every year.. every year that team is either in the playoffs or the superbowl.. his play is almost always consistent.. he has 6 seasons of over 30 td passes.. do you konw the most that drew ever had was 28.. one time.. and other than that one time, he has never even cracked 25?? EVER in his 11 year career.. good qbs make their team better.. period. drew does not make the team better.. he needs optimal circumstances at every position to show any success..

i understand that he is the start. i will be rooting for him this year, and i pray to god that MM can do what he did with kordell and maddox... hell, i love our new coaching staff and am fairly optimistic that he can help drew... but my point is that drew will never be brett farve.. he will never be a great qb.. he will never be a HOF qb..

losman could be.. we dont know.. and i have enough faith in our coaches that they can get him ready.. sure it is a risk.. at least with JP, there is some hope that he could be special.. is it ideal to put in a rookie qb??? hell no.. but i dont want any of the other scrubs taht are available either... it worked ok for manning.. it worked ok for several rookies.. at least if we take a chance, we are moving in the right direction for the future.. drew is not the future.. so we are just stalling the inevitable, imho.

buffmaniac

05-07-2004, 03:17 PM

Who said that Drew was Brett Favre? I know I didn't. All I am saying is that Drew can be a good QB who can help this team be successful while Losman is still developing.

The fact is that I can bring up the years when Drew played well and then you would state how he had a great team and great coaches around him or how he played bad teams etc...

Then you could bring up the years Drew played bad and I would come back with how he had very little help around him or how he had poor coaching etc...

The fact is Drew has had an up and down career. I personally feel he is our best option for this season. So I'm counting on this coaching staff to hopefully help Bledsoe and this offense get back on track. Lets just give it a chance.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by buffmaniac
The fact is Drew has had an up and down career. I personally feel he is our best option for this season. So I'm counting on this coaching staff to hopefully help Bledsoe and this offense get back on track. Lets just give it a chance.

i hope your right, and it looks like we dont have a choice.. but this whole thread was about the fact that we just paid him a huge signing bonus that keeps him from being a one year deal.. imho. he will be here for 2 years minimum, i think..

but your right.. he is our starter.. and i will deal with it.. and pull for him just as i would if it were jim kelly or jp losman.

but i still reserve the right to express my desire for another option. ;)

helmetguy

05-07-2004, 03:25 PM

Huge?

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by helmetguy
Huge?

6 million is huge for 11 tds/24 turnovers.. yes.

Dozerdog

05-07-2004, 03:37 PM

What people fail to realize is that Drew Bledsoe and his contract really don't have that big of an impact on weather we keep Schobel, or Clements, or Williams, or Jennings.

Cap space availability in 2006,2007,2008 will determine that. If any of the above decide to stay, their deals will be "cap freindly" the first few years, with the big nut coming along in he back half of the deals- well after DB is out of town.

Another thing everyone fails to remember with the "re-sign everone" hysteria is that TD isn't going to over-pay anyone. He hasn't yet- and he won't in the future. Regardless if Bledsoe's deal, regardless if he restructured, got cut, or whatever.

If Buffalo was $25 million under the cap this season- Winfield was still a goner. No way in hell he pays that kind of money for a player - you don't determine a player's worth by "how much space you have". If Schobel is a $4 million a year player, and someone wants to pay $5 million- he's out. They aen't going to over pay a player just because they might have the ability to.

Like him or not- Bledsoe does not have as much of an impact on keeping those players or getting rid of them.

Dozerdog

05-07-2004, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
6 million is huge for 11 tds/24 turnovers.. yes.

Numbers that 75% of the QB s in the league would have put up in Gilbride's offenses. The other 25% would be your $10 million dollar freaks of nature.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Numbers that 75% of the QB s in the league would have put up in Gilbride's offenses. The other 25% would be your $10 million dollar freaks of nature.

i will take the 25% freaks of nature then.. i dont think that is too much to ask.

Dozerdog

05-07-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
i will take the 25% freaks of nature then.. i dont think that is too much to ask.

I don't think McNabb, Vick, Manning are available

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I don't think McNabb, Vick, Manning are available

losman is. :D

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
losman is. :D

No he isn't...we drafted him...:snicker:

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 04:35 PM

personally.. i think losman is every bit as talented as mcnabb was coming out.. in every aspect of his game... the only thing he lacks is experience.. and there is only one way that you get that.. (no.. not the nfl europe. :tongue: )

Mr. Cynical

05-07-2004, 05:49 PM

Wow. I'm away from the board for a day and all this happens. Sorry T, I would have come to the rescue much sooner. :redcar:

Just because we (FTG, Tonk and others) choose to question the validity of a decision by TD does not mean we are "wysian". It just so happens that Drew is one of (if not the) most impactful decisions TD is making/made for the team. And it is because of that impact that we tend to voice our opinion maybe more than on other topics.

Greatest impact = greatest concern = greatest number of posts.

Yes, we...or let me say I as I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouths...feel that DB is not the answer at QB and also feel the contract renegotiation was for the most part crap. Drew is still getting his monster millions with nothing to back it up other than some inane mystique that has followed him for 11 years.

As Tonk pointed out, JP could really not do any worse if our line s**ts the bed again. He is mobile and fast and is ALOT more accurate than Drew EVER was.

Fast + accurate = less sacks and INTs.

Would I rather have a vet in there instead? Yeah, probably. Who you ask? I've said this before ... and I know nobody else agrees ... but I would start Kordell at vet minimum and save all that wasted money we are going to give Drew. But now after thinking a bit more, I'd probably just start JP. Why? Because the likely scenario is that Drew will falter mid season and JP will be in anyway. But at that point it is too late and Drew will have already gotten his stockpile of cash. Also it gets the new era started which is desperately needed.

Anyway I think what we are seeing in threads like this is frustration from off season boredom and a strong desire to see the Bills become a winner again after 8 years of woeful mediocrity. I want whatever is going to change that, and IMO it ain't Drew at the helm for yet another year under yet another coaching staff. C'est la vie...it's what we're stuck with so let's all light a candle for a miracle.

Tatonka

05-07-2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
Anyway I think what we are seeing in threads like this is frustration from off season boredom and a strong desire to see the Bills become a winner again after 8 years of woeful mediocrity. I want whatever is going to change that, and IMO it ain't Drew at the helm for yet another year under yet another coaching staff. C'est la vie...it's what we're stuck with so let's all light a candle for a miracle.

:band:

Novacane

05-07-2004, 06:04 PM

The thing that irks me is TD trying to sell this as this great selfless thing Bledsoe did. Thats all he has been saying since this happend. Drew gets the same money he was going to get if he did not redo the deal. I don't see how that is this great selfless putting the team first act that Bledsoe did.

Dozerdog

05-07-2004, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
losman is. :D

I guess this is where the frustration factor in holding one of these conversations takes place. I talk about last year's conditions- how almost all QBs in the league would have failed - and you want to interject next year's QB. It has nothing to do with my point.

Thus- I'm out

Mr. Cynical

05-07-2004, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I guess this is where the frustration factor in holding one of these conversations takes place. I talk about last year's conditions- how almost all QBs in the league would have failed - and you want to interject next year's QB. It has nothing to do with my point.

Thus- I'm out

But dozer, it is not just about last year. It is about his 11 year career. THAT'S the point we're trying to make in all of this.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical

But dozer, it is not just about last year. It is about his 11 year career. THAT'S the point we're trying to make in all of this.

Admit it Mr C...........You just hate DB's guts

The Natrix

05-07-2004, 06:24 PM

I love DB. He is my idol.

ScottLawrence

05-07-2004, 06:43 PM

Speaking of McNabb and Manning.... Look at how these QB's do against competition.

McNabb can't get his team past the NFC Championship and look at how bad Manning had performed in the AFC Championship and before this year.

McNabb and Peyton are just as bad as Bledsoe against good compeition, IMO.

But I would definitly rather take either of them over Bledsoe.

Dozerdog

05-07-2004, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
The thing that irks me is TD trying to sell this as this great selfless thing Bledsoe did. Thats all he has been saying since this happend. Drew gets the same money he was going to get if he did not redo the deal. I don't see how that is this great selfless putting the team first act that Bledsoe did.

Please show me a link (Other than from bills report) where TD is "Selling this" as some great humanitarian act. Statements like this are more conjecture and attempts to flame the issue. It's what it is- a 4 million cap saving.
Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Admit it Mr C...........You just hate DB's guts

More flaming- I fail to see where comments like this are for any other intent than to bait folks.
Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
But dozer, it is not just about last year. It is about his 11 year career. THAT'S the point we're trying to make in all of this.

If it were an 11 year career filled with failure- you have a valid point. But he's had some incredible highs and some deep lows.

We could get a Blake with 8 low years, or a Kordell, or a Collins- but why chase other bad QBs? Losman is the future- don't blow it by throwing him to the dogs early.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog

More flaming- I fail to see where comments like this are for any other intent than to bait folks.
.

Give me a freaking break. It's a little joke for Mr. C . He knows I know where he's comming from. You need to chill out a little. Mr C knows damn well he and I see eye to eye about Drew yet I'm trying to bait him. Whatever:madfire:

Novacane

05-07-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog

Please show me a link (Other than from bills report) where TD is "Selling this" as some great humanitarian act. Statements like this are more conjecture and attempts to flame the issue. It's what it is- a 4 million cap saving.

.

He has said it over and over. Heard him on WGR 55, Simon and Brinsons new show.......buffalo news. Has said repeatedly that a lot of players talk about helping the team but Bledsoe backed it up and proved he puts the team first . I'm not finding you a link. Do you think I give a flying **** if you don't believe me.

Novacane

05-07-2004, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by The Natrix
I love DB. He is my idol.

At least some people have a sense of humor:confused:

Ebenezer

05-07-2004, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
He has said it over and over. Heard him on WGR 55, Simon and Brinsons new show.......buffalo news. Has said repeatedly that a lot of players talk about helping the team but Bledsoe backed it up and proved he puts the team first . I'm not finding you a link. Do you think I give a flying **** if you don't believe me.

you still do not get it...he did help the team...he saved the team $4mil this year...that gets transposed to next year if he sucks and we cut him...he gets $8 mil this year...the same as he would have had he not restructured...you are mad becaused he simply didn't take a pay cut or was cut...give me a break. How did he not go a good thing...please explain.

ScottLawrence

05-07-2004, 08:07 PM

Whatever..... I think Donahoe should be gone after this season if Bledsoe flunks again.

Michael82

05-07-2004, 08:41 PM

:couch:

Michael82

05-07-2004, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Whatever..... I think Donahoe should be gone after this season if Bledsoe flunks again.

I disagree. The Bills are starting out with a new future and new coaching staff. If Bledsoe sucks this year, Losman will start next year. Donahoe should have at least 2 years left.

ScottLawrence

05-07-2004, 09:14 PM

I disagree. The Bills are starting out with a new future and new coaching staff. If Bledsoe sucks this year, Losman will start next year. Donahoe should have at least 2 years left.

NO way man.... He wants to take the chance on Bledsoe he should pay the consequences.

Say we go 7-9, that would make Donahoe's record here in 4 years 24-40. UNACCEPTABLE. PERIOD.

Michael82

05-07-2004, 09:25 PM

ScottLawrence

05-07-2004, 10:04 PM

I dont think he should be.....

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
NO way man.... He wants to take the chance on Bledsoe he should pay the consequences.

Say we go 7-9, that would make Donahoe's record here in 4 years 24-40. UNACCEPTABLE. PERIOD.

:10:

Agreed. This *should* be the make or break year for TD....4 years without a winning season would be total justification for showing him the door. BUT....as others have said, TD appears to be safe for a long time. :idunno:

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Ebenezer
you still do not get it...he did help the team...he saved the team $4mil this year...that gets transposed to next year if he sucks and we cut him...he gets $8 mil this year...the same as he would have had he not restructured...you are mad becaused he simply didn't take a pay cut or was cut...give me a break. How did he not go a good thing...please explain.

"...he gets $8 mil this year...the same as he would have had he not restructured..."

I'm confused. You say he helped the team, but if he is making the same money as with the old contract, how did the Bills benefit?

"...he saved the team $4mil this year...that gets transposed to next year if he sucks and we cut him..."

So by this statement he makes his bonanza millions no matter what, i.e., he moved the $4M to next year and will get it even if we cut him.

I say again....how does this benefit the Bills? :huh:

If he had made the $4M move based on incentives, then I can see the benefit.

If he had simply dropped that cost completely, then I can see the benefit.

But simply moving it to next year would only help if it allows TD to sign someone this year and we make the run this year. Otherwise we're going to pay Drew even if he s**ts the bed again and that's not acceptable.

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Admit it Mr C...........You just hate DB's guts

:madcurse:

F**k you man! Bite me! What a ****head!

Yes, I was totally 100% kidding. ;)

:beers:

STAMPY

05-08-2004, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
:madcurse:

F**k you man! Bite me! What a ****head!

would you be happy if, i kno its a big if, drew made pro bowl and helped us into playoffs? or would you still be hating on him, T aint wys jr, but Mr C is Mr Wys Senior
:hammeru:

BillsFever

05-08-2004, 03:06 AM

What great act did Bledsoe do for us? He is still getting the same amount of money this year no matter what. Many players redo their contracts every year to create more cap room that season and receive the same amount of cash but the team pays for it later in the salary cap aspect.

Now tell me. Are these 50+ players every year who redo their contracts to free more cap room but receive the same amount of cash all saints too? I guess Rob Johnson was a saint to the team also. He redid his contract at times to create more room that season but we paid for it later on. How about all the scrubs John Butler did that for to create more cap room that season but they still got paid the same. Are these guys saints too?

Bledsoe did nothing for the team. He's making the same amount of cash. The same things almost 100 players do every year to create more cash for their team. It's not like he gave up any money for his miserable production.

And wasn't he the one who said after the new contract that money wasn't an issue to him and that he just wants to win? He's making the same amount of money. If anything he bought himself another year of making mega millions from us because it will cost us 4 million to cut him after this season now.

If he was such a saint like the lovers wanted to make him out to be last week then he would've taken a pay cut. Just not redo his contract to create more room this year for the team but still receive the same amount of cash. He's still making 8 million this season no matter what. Tell us again exactly what he sacrificed for the team? Same amount of cash he was gonna make anyway. Yeah, what a classy move by Bledsoe. I feel so sorry for him.

BillsFever

05-08-2004, 03:08 AM

Oh yeah, and wasn't all the lovers saying it was a mute point months ago that he was gonna make 8 million this year because he was gonna take a paycut, and if not then he should be released. Well he's still making 8 million this year. My how things change.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 07:57 AM

Novacane

05-08-2004, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Mikey82

Ralph likes him too much. I think Donahoe is safe no matter what this season.

I think he's safe as long as Ralph is still breathing. I don't think he should be canned if Drew sucks again but he sure should be fired if Mularkey does not pan out. I can give him 1 mistake picking a coach, not 2

Novacane

05-08-2004, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by BillsFever

Bledsoe did nothing for the team. He's making the same amount of cash. The same things almost 100 players do every year to create more cash for their team. It's not like he gave up any money for his miserable production.

.

Please stop trying to inflame people :ontome:

saviorbledsoe

05-08-2004, 08:07 AM

I hate Donahoe, I hate Bledsoe, We should trade Travis, Sam Adams is overrated, Moulds is getting old............Why dont I just pick another team?

:)

Novacane

05-08-2004, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
I hate Donahoe, I hate Bledsoe, We should trade Travis, Sam Adams is overrated, Moulds is getting old............Why dont I just pick another team?

And you accuse other people of being negative :rolleyes:

saviorbledsoe

05-08-2004, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

And you accuse other people of being negative :rolleyes:

I hope u aren't being serious.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by BillsFever

And wasn't he the one who said after the new contract that money wasn't an issue to him and that he just wants to win? He's making the same amount of money. If anything he bought himself another year of making mega millions from us because it will cost us 4 million to cut him after this season now.

.

:bf1: TD and Drew know very well that 1/2 the bills fans have zero faith in Drew anymore. They figure selling this as a great sacrifice by Drew will buy them a little good PR.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe

I hope u aren't being serious.

Don't tell me you don't know when I'm joking either :dink:

saviorbledsoe

05-08-2004, 08:15 AM

I wanna know HOW MANY OF YOU ON THIS BOARD were happy when Drew was brought here???????

Just curious.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
I wanna know HOW MANY OF YOU ON THIS BOARD were happy when Drew was brought here???????

Just curious.

I freely admit I was. Does that mean I have to continue to be happy eventhough he has played like s#it 65% of the games he's been our QB?

saviorbledsoe

05-08-2004, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

I freely admit I was. Does that mean I have to continue to be happy eventhough he has played like s#it 65% of the games he's been our QB?

No but most of you talk like he has NEVER been good so if that were the case then why were you excited to have him on this team?

chernobylwraiths

05-08-2004, 09:01 AM

This whole thread is ridiculous. Not one snap in training camp has been done and we are already talking about next year. If you guys want to talk about negativity, can't you at least wait until the season starts?

I like Drew. Probably more as a person than as a QB, but I think he can be a pretty good QB under the right circumstances. And no, those circumstances don't necessarily have to be with a HOF Oline blocking, Thurman Thomas at RB and Andre Reed and Moulds at WR. It seems that this coaching staff is going in the right direction. They will simplify the playbook and run the ball more. I think with the receivers running the proper routes without having to make one of six determinations of which way to go, and Drew knows where every receiver is going, then his decision making will be easier. Sure Drew will still make some of those poorly advised throws, but I don't see them as any different than what Kelly used to do. Remember, Kelly used to call most of his own plays at the line (what a QB loves to do) and I'm sure he knew where his receivers were going to be when he dropped back. Kelly also looked awful too when he was given little time to throw and made a lot of ill advised throws while with an arguably much better Oline than what Drew has.

One of the other things I find puzzling is that most, if not all, of the anti Drew camp freely admit that either one or all of these factors played a part in the Bills poor season for the last few years: OC was terrible and his play calling sucked, HC made a lot of questionable decisions and wasn't a very good HC, our offensive line was poorly coached and the personel haven't been that good at times, we never seemed to run the ball enough, even in games when we were dominating on the ground, our QB play more times than not, has been less than stellar, etc. However, we want to place the blame on just one person. Do we actually think that any QB put in the same situation for the last three years would have done much better? Do we think that any QB that was available at any time in the last three years could have done any better? I agree that this is Drew's make or break season for the Bills. He will have to play well to stay with the team. If his mistakes are limited and the Bills win, I will be much happier. I also agree that not a whole lot was done with his contract that I could say that I loved. Sure he saved the Bills money this season, but it isn't the great contract that I first thought they were talking about.

As for Tom Donahoe, I really can't believe that we are already saying he is on the hot seat THIS YEAR to keep his job. I believe that he has two more years minimum. He got us out of salary cap hell a lot sooner than any of us would have dreamed, he picked up some pretty damned good players in free agency over the last few years, Centers, Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Milloy, and he made some darn good picks in the draft with Clements, Schoble, Henry, Jennings with guys like Reed, Williams and McGahee ready to emerge. I think that his biggest mistake was hiring Gregg Williams and that was a mistake that it took two years to figure out. I would have fired his sorry ass LAST year and maybe we wouldn't be having some of these conversations. He has made his share of mistakes, but none of them seem as glaring as IMO some of us are making them out to be. He made a mistake IMO of taking McGahee, but that could be a great move, we shall see this year how good of a pick that was. He also may have overpaid for some of his acquisitions like Milloy, and Losman, but Milloy was a Pro Bowl player and this team needed safety help and everyone here wanted us to get our QB of the future. If we try and move up to get Rivers or Roethlisberger, we give up approximately the same price (our first, second and another pick) for a guy who like it or not would not play this season if Bledsoe stays healthy, so at least we got Evans.

I think this namecalling and such is ridiculous and we should try and start acting our age. Even as a Bledsoe backer, I can see that the "bashers" have some valid points, even if I don't agree with them, while some of us "backers" have a little wishful thinking added to our optimism. But I know we all just want our Bills to win and that is all we can hope for, no matter who is behind center.

Now with the length of this post, I feel like Wys Jr although I don't think I repeated myself too much. :)

Novacane

05-08-2004, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe

No but most of you talk like he has NEVER been good so if that were the case then why were you excited to have him on this team?

I'm not one that says he's never been good. I've said he's never been great. I was excited when we got him. Now that I've watched him up close I wish we never had. Simple as that.

saviorbledsoe

05-08-2004, 09:59 AM

BTW, do we even know that these figues are correct? I did not see one link and this post was started by a Patsie fan. This could all be a rouge.

buffmaniac

05-08-2004, 10:10 AM

So what do people think? That the Bills put on this contract show just to make Drew look better to the fans. Come on. Drew restructured converting base salary to signing bonus which allows the Bills to spread that money over the length of the contract. This helps free up cap room for the team. And the fact is from Drew's old contract to this contract he is still losing money that he could have made. The way I see it is that Drew will play in 2004 at 4.4mil and 2005 at 6.5 mil then Losman will probably take over in 2006.

If 6.5 million signing bonus is too much for Drew then I just wonder what some of you think about the 34 million signing bonus for Manning who is 2-4 in playoff games and has yet to lead his team to the Super Bowl.

Dozerdog

05-08-2004, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
This whole thread is ridiculous. Not one snap in training camp has been done and we are already talking about next year. If you guys want to talk about negativity, can't you at least wait until the season starts?

I like Drew. Probably more as a person than as a QB, but I think he can be a pretty good QB under the right circumstances. And no, those circumstances don't necessarily have to be with a HOF Oline blocking, Thurman Thomas at RB and Andre Reed and Moulds at WR. It seems that this coaching staff is going in the right direction. They will simplify the playbook and run the ball more. I think with the receivers running the proper routes without having to make one of six determinations of which way to go, and Drew knows where every receiver is going, then his decision making will be easier. Sure Drew will still make some of those poorly advised throws, but I don't see them as any different than what Kelly used to do. Remember, Kelly used to call most of his own plays at the line (what a QB loves to do) and I'm sure he knew where his receivers were going to be when he dropped back. Kelly also looked awful too when he was given little time to throw and made a lot of ill advised throws while with an arguably much better Oline than what Drew has.

One of the other things I find puzzling is that most, if not all, of the anti Drew camp freely admit that either one or all of these factors played a part in the Bills poor season for the last few years: OC was terrible and his play calling sucked, HC made a lot of questionable decisions and wasn't a very good HC, our offensive line was poorly coached and the personel haven't been that good at times, we never seemed to run the ball enough, even in games when we were dominating on the ground, our QB play more times than not, has been less than stellar, etc. However, we want to place the blame on just one person. Do we actually think that any QB put in the same situation for the last three years would have done much better? Do we think that any QB that was available at any time in the last three years could have done any better? I agree that this is Drew's make or break season for the Bills. He will have to play well to stay with the team. If his mistakes are limited and the Bills win, I will be much happier. I also agree that not a whole lot was done with his contract that I could say that I loved. Sure he saved the Bills money this season, but it isn't the great contract that I first thought they were talking about.

As for Tom Donahoe, I really can't believe that we are already saying he is on the hot seat THIS YEAR to keep his job. I believe that he has two more years minimum. He got us out of salary cap hell a lot sooner than any of us would have dreamed, he picked up some pretty damned good players in free agency over the last few years, Centers, Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Milloy, and he made some darn good picks in the draft with Clements, Schoble, Henry, Jennings with guys like Reed, Williams and McGahee ready to emerge. I think that his biggest mistake was hiring Gregg Williams and that was a mistake that it took two years to figure out. I would have fired his sorry ass LAST year and maybe we wouldn't be having some of these conversations. He has made his share of mistakes, but none of them seem as glaring as IMO some of us are making them out to be. He made a mistake IMO of taking McGahee, but that could be a great move, we shall see this year how good of a pick that was. He also may have overpaid for some of his acquisitions like Milloy, and Losman, but Milloy was a Pro Bowl player and this team needed safety help and everyone here wanted us to get our QB of the future. If we try and move up to get Rivers or Roethlisberger, we give up approximately the same price (our first, second and another pick) for a guy who like it or not would not play this season if Bledsoe stays healthy, so at least we got Evans.

I think this namecalling and such is ridiculous and we should try and start acting our age. Even as a Bledsoe backer, I can see that the "bashers" have some valid points, even if I don't agree with them, while some of us "backers" have a little wishful thinking added to our optimism. But I know we all just want our Bills to win and that is all we can hope for, no matter who is behind center.

Now with the length of this post, I feel like Wys Jr although I don't think I repeated myself too much. :)

Originally posted by buffmaniac
So what do people think? That the Bills put on this contract show just to make Drew look better to the fans. Come on. Drew restructured converting base salary to signing bonus which allows the Bills to spread that money over the length of the contract. This helps free up cap room for the team. And the fact is from Drew's old contract to this contract he is still losing money that he could have made. The way I see it is that Drew will play in 2004 at 4.4mil and 2005 at 6.5 mil then Losman will probably take over in 2006.

If 6.5 million signing bonus is too much for Drew then I just wonder what some of you think about the 34 million signing bonus for Manning who is 2-4 in playoff games and has yet to lead his team to the Super Bowl.

Two fantastic posts.

:up:

Novacane

05-08-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by buffmaniac
So what do people think? That the Bills put on this contract show just to make Drew look better to the fans. .

Yes. TD made it a much bigger deal than it was IMO. Drew got his money now instead of 6 months from now. He did not have to do it but I can't see why any player would not do what he did. Take your money now instead of later. If you have been following press reports it has been made out that Drew made a sacrifice for the team. He did not sacrifice anything. I believe thats the only point we are trying to make.

buffmaniac

05-08-2004, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Yes. TD made it a much bigger deal than it was IMO. Drew got his money now instead of 6 months from now. He did not have to do it but I can't see why any player would not do what he did. Take your money now instead of later. If you have been following press reports it has been made out that Drew made a sacrifice for the team. He did not sacrifice anything. I believe thats the only point we are trying to make.

I'm not sure about the contract numbers so correct me if I am wrong but I believe Drew's old contract was worth 25million and his new contract is worth 19million. That is a loss of 6 million that Drew did not have to take.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by buffmaniac

I'm not sure about the contract numbers so correct me if I am wrong but I believe Drew's old contract was worth 25million and his new contract is worth 19million. That is a loss of 6 million that Drew did not have to take.

Everyone as well as Drew knew he was never going to see that bonus in Nov or the ridiculas salaries that came in future years. I repeat..........The only point I am trying to make is Bledsoe made a good business decision.......not a sacrifice for the team.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
BTW, do we even know that these figues are correct? I did not see one link and this post was started by a Patsie fan. This could all be a rouge.

NFLPA website.

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=19885

Ingtar33

05-08-2004, 10:48 AM

um... there is some confusion here... Without the restructure, drew would have made... 5.9 mil base + 2 mil buyout OR +8 mil roster bonus so in order to keep him we would have paid him

~8mil this year min
~13mil this year max

those are raw numbers, his salary cap number would have been..

~8mil, roughly the same no mater what

Had Drew kept the contract, and been here in 3 years his salary cap number would have been around 10mil. With this new contract, Drew makes...

2.25mil + 6mil signing bonus = 8.25mil

roughly the same amount of money he would have made had the Bills bought out his contract cutting him loose after this year without the renegotiate.

However the salary cap numbers are fantastic, and he takes a true dollar cut in salary the next two seasons.

the real cap numbers,

4.25 mil this year vs 8+ mil under the old contract.
~it will cost the Bills 4 mil in dead cap to cut him after the first season now
~under the old contract it would have cost them 5.5 mil to cut Drew after the roster bonus was paid then Drew was cut.

5.5 mil in 2005 vs 9 mil under old contract
~it would cost 2 mil in dead cap to cut Drew after the '05 season with the new contract
~it would cost 4 mil in dead cap to cut Drew after the '05 season with the old contract

6.25mil in 2006 vs. 10 mil under the old contract
~this is the final season of the new contract and as such there is no cap hit to not resign Drew after this season
~in the Old contract it would cost the team roughly 3 mil to cut Drew after the '06 season.

The actual, real dollar, pay cut Drew takes are roughly
'04 = $0 (however this assumes the roster bonus due in November is not paid, if it was he lost $5mil)
'05 = $3.5 mil
'06 = $4.5 mil
plus the final 2 years he voided in the last contract, Real Dollar numbers of somewhere in the Ball Park of 20 mil.

He signed a contract worth 16 mil (10 mil base, 6 mil signing bonus)

(most of these numbers are based purely on memory, so some of these are likely incorect)

buffmaniac

05-08-2004, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Everyone as well as Drew knew he was never going to see that bonus in Nov or the ridiculas salaries that came in future years. I repeat..........The only point I am trying to make is Bledsoe made a good business decision.......not a sacrifice for the team.

Ok well that's fine. It is a win-win situation for Drew and the Bills. Now let me just ask: Well first I doubt Drew will be here in 2006 with the 8mil but do you think that 4.4mil in 2004 and 6.5mil in 2005 for Drew is fair or unfair? Just wondering.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Ingtar33

However the salary cap numbers are fantastic, and he takes a true dollar cut in salary the next two seasons.

the real cap numbers,

4.25 mil this year vs 8+ mil under the old contract.
~it will cost the Bills 4 mil in dead cap to cut him after the first season now
~under the old contract it would have cost them 5.5 mil to cut Drew after the roster bonus was paid then Drew was cut.

5.5 mil in 2005 vs 9 mil under old contract
~it would cost 2 mil in dead cap to cut Drew after the '05 season with the new contract
~it would cost 4 mil in dead cap to cut Drew after the '05 season with the old contract

6.25mil in 2006 vs. 10 mil under the old contract

I get your point on the future salaries INg. My point is Drew knew there was no way in hell the Bills were gonna ante up that money.

Ingtar33

05-08-2004, 10:56 AM

it does not cost 8 mil his final year.

4.5 mil + 2 mil = 6.5 not 8 mil

Novacane

05-08-2004, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by buffmaniac

Ok well that's fine. It is a win-win situation for Drew and the Bills. Now let me just ask: Well first I doubt Drew will be here in 2006 with the 8mil but do you think that 4.4mil in 2004 and 6.5mil in 2005 for Drew is fair or unfair? Just wondering.

all depends on his performance. Based on last years play? No Way!

Ingtar33

05-08-2004, 10:58 AM

yes... but if you're going to compare and decide what type of pay cut was taken you have to compare it to something.

Even in the last year of his current, new contract he doesn't make what he made last season.

buffmaniac

05-08-2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Ingtar33
it does not cost 8 mil his final year.

4.5 mil + 2 mil = 6.5 not 8 mil

Yeah I'm not really sure what the deal is. I see where your numbers are from: Base + Bonus Someone earlier in the thread had numbers including other bonus/incentives or something that bumped Drew's # in his final year up to 8million. I don't know if that is true or not.

Dozerdog

05-08-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Yes. TD made it a much bigger deal than it was IMO. Drew got his money now instead of 6 months from now. He did not have to do it but I can't see why any player would not do what he did. Take your money now instead of later. If you have been following press reports it has been made out that Drew made a sacrifice for the team. He did not sacrifice anything. I believe thats the only point we are trying to make.

I highly doubt TD makes ANY decisons based on how they look to the fans or media. if anything- his history has shown that he really doesn't care what non-football professional people think.

Right now, Management is happy, DB is happy- and according to another League guy (Ingtar- who is most in the know about these things) it's a great deal.

It works for me.

Novacane

05-08-2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog

I highly doubt TD makes ANY decisons based on how they look to the fans or media. if anything- his history has shown that he really doesn't care what non-football professional people think.

.

On that we agree. I just believe once the deal was done TD was trying to sell it as a bigger giveback from Drew than it really was. He knows 1/2 of Bills fans think he screwed up brining in Drew. A little PR never hurts.

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by BuffaloBillsSTAMPEDE
would you be happy if, i kno its a big if, drew made pro bowl and helped us into playoffs? or would you still be hating on him, T aint wys jr, but Mr C is Mr Wys Senior
:hammeru:

No, I would be absolutely MISERABLE if Drew helped the Bills get to the playoffs. :shakeno:

The question you need to ask is.....if by some miracle he helps the Bills *to* the playoffs, but then chokes in the first playoff game by tossing 4 INTs...will *you* be hating on Drew? A major part of Drew's history is his lousy performance in big games. Ultimately that is why I have no faith in him. I really do not want to get my hopes up during the season just to have him s**t the bed in the first playoff round.

But hey, if he plays well from beginning to end (something he's never done), then I'll be first in line for a ride on the Drew Loving Wagon.

Oh and this is a TOS violation. You called me Wys Senior :up:

Ickybaluky

05-08-2004, 04:05 PM

BTW, do we even know that these figues are correct? I did not see one link and this post was started by a Patsie fan.

First of all, AdamJT13 reported the details, I just reported the salaries. Adam is a Cowboy fan who posts on a lot of message boards on cap matters. He has inside information, which he has proven on many occasions.

Secondly, Len Pasquarelli of ESPN confirmed (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1796964) the numbers in his weekly Tip Sheet. Pasquarelli has proven reliable, reporting contract details not available anywhere else.

Finally, the fact I am a Pats fan hardly calls this thread into question. I merely reported some information I thought would be of interest to Bills fans, and didn't offer any opinion. I would suggest the length of this thread confirms it is of interest.

I have refrained from entering this foray thus far, because I've stated my opinions in the past. However, I do have a couple comments:

1) This contract is hardly a cap killer. It removes the specter of that November deadline on the option from consideration this season, and provides some stability for the team and player. It isn't like it is so much money the Bills are going to have negative consequences down the line. In this regard, it is a good deal for the Bills.

2) That said, I think the Bills overpaid. Bledsoe's play over the last couple seasons does not warrant that kind of money, and if he were released I doubt he would get that much from any other team.

3) I think the idea of cutting Drew and handing the ball to J.P. Losman at this point is silly. Rookie QBs just don't win, and he will be well served by a year learning the Pro Game. Starting Losman as a rookie would be best for Dallas, not Buffalo.

5) That said, there was an option. Drew could have been cut prior to signing the new deal with no real negative consequence. Thus, Buffalo could have signed a deal with Kerry Collins to play until Losman is ready, and it would have been much cheaper than what they paid to keep Bledsoe. Collins and Bledsoe are basically the same player, but Collins is probably a little better at this point. That may be a little picky for criticism, but it is a valid point of view.

One last thing...

Why is it that so many people are offended when people raise concerns about Bledsoe? Isn't it valid to point out the flaws in his game, which can be backed up with facts? That doesn't mean Bledsoe can't win, or isn't going to have a good season, or even that everyone has to agree with the criticism. However, it seems any criticism of Bledsoe (much of it valid) is greeted by many as a personal attack on all things to do with the Buffalo Bills, and instantly means that the right of the critic to root for the team should be revoked. It is just criticizing a player, much like many did with Ruben Brown this year.

BTW, I am almost complete with my analysis of QB's vs. good competition. I think it will be very interesting, and should relate to this debate.

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Ingtar33
the real cap numbers,

4.25 mil this year vs 8+ mil under the old contract.
~it will cost the Bills 4 mil in dead cap to cut him after the first season now
~under the old contract it would have cost them 5.5 mil to cut Drew after the roster bonus was paid then Drew was cut.

This is the critical part of the whole thing IMO. So basically the Bills will save $1.5M if they want to cut him after '04? Gee, that's great. :shakeno:

And there is NO way Drew is here until 06 so the rest of those contract numbers are moot IMO. Why? I bet we'll pick up some vet at vet min in 05 and start JP. At that point are you really going to pay a backup $5.5M? A backup like Drew? If so TD really deserves the Boobie Prize. But since I don't think TD is stupid, I'm betting he just wanted to shave a bit off the penalty for whacking Drew after the season.

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by NE39
2) That said, I think the Bills overpaid. Bledsoe's play over the last couple seasons does not warrant that kind of money, and if he were released I doubt he would get that much from any other team.

:bf1:

Originally posted by NE39
5) That said, there was an option. Drew could have been cut prior to signing the new deal with no real negative consequence. Thus, Buffalo could have signed a deal with Kerry Collins to play until Losman is ready, and it would have been much cheaper than what they paid to keep Bledsoe. Collins and Bledsoe are basically the same player, but Collins is probably a little better at this point. That may be a little picky for criticism, but it is a valid point of view.

:10:

Originally posted by NE39
One last thing...

Why is it that so many people are offended when people raise concerns about Bledsoe? Isn't it valid to point out the flaws in his game, which can be backed up with facts? That doesn't mean Bledsoe can't win, or isn't going to have a good season, or even that everyone has to agree with the criticism. However, it seems any criticism of Bledsoe (much of it valid) is greeted by many as a personal attack on all things to do with the Buffalo Bills, and instantly means that the right of the critic to root for the team should be revoked. It is just criticizing a player, much like many did with Ruben Brown this year.

Well put. You're getting close to qualifying for another post of the year. ;)

Originally posted by NE39
BTW, I am almost complete with my analysis of QB's vs. good competition. I think it will be very interesting, and should relate to this debate.

I can hardly wait! :up:

shadowfax

05-08-2004, 06:49 PM

He's set to make more money from 04-06 than Tom Brady, donovan mcnabb, brett favre, daunte culpepper, mike vick, aaron brooks, and marc bulger.

And that just doesn't seem right. I think Bledsoe's ability as a QB warrants no more than 4 million per season.

Don't start thinking that he's going to be someone else this season. He'll be Drew Bledsoe. He'll have great moments, and he'll have horrid moments. What we've seen is what we'll get.

And it's not worth the money that brady, favre, vic, and bulger are getting. I'll take arguments on the other guys, but even they deserve to be paid better.

We're still overpaying him.

Dozerdog

05-08-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
On that we agree. I just believe once the deal was done TD was trying to sell it as a bigger giveback from Drew than it really was. He knows 1/2 of Bills fans think he screwed up brining in Drew. A little PR never hurts.

I don't live in buffalo- so i don't see local TV. Unless he's been selling a lot on the sports segments (which is out of his character) I haven't seen any other media sources where he's been "pimping" this deal.

Yeah- there is the obligitory Mike in the face after the announcement has been made- but where exactly is this great "Sales Job" been taking place?

I haven't seen it

Mr. Cynical

05-08-2004, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by shadowfax
Don't start thinking that he's going to be someone else this season. He'll be Drew Bledsoe. He'll have great moments, and he'll have horrid moments. What we've seen is what we'll get.

What?! But he'll have new coaches, new Oline coach, new schemes and a new speed WR. Of course he'll be someone else. He's never had this before!

Oh wait...I forgot. He has.

;)

Dozerdog

05-08-2004, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by shadowfax
He's set to make more money from 04-06 than Tom Brady, donovan mcnabb, brett favre, daunte culpepper, mike vick, aaron brooks, and marc bulger.

And that just doesn't seem right. I think Bledsoe's ability as a QB warrants no more than 4 million per season.

Don't start thinking that he's going to be someone else this season. He'll be Drew Bledsoe. He'll have great moments, and he'll have horrid moments. What we've seen is what we'll get.

And it's not worth the money that brady, favre, vic, and bulger are getting. I'll take arguments on the other guys, but even they deserve to be paid better.

We're still overpaying him.

Where do you get figures like that?

All 3 of those guys (Mcnabb, Culpepper, Brady) signed huge deals- I think McNabb's was the best in football before Manning signed. It's pretty easy to look at just salary and conveniently forget the cap hit or initial signing bonus paid.

Bulger is a tenderd player- if he was on the free market- he would be getting a lot more than the 1.4 million he had to take.

Brooks is on his initial deal as well. When he hit FAcy- he will ge thte 6-8 million a year.

Favre was making 9 Million last season- I don't know if he's even signed through the next 3 seasons

Vick is on his rookie contract

Dozerdog

05-08-2004, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
"Don't start thinking that he's going to be someone else this season. He'll be Drew Bledsoe. He'll have great moments, and he'll have horrid moments. What we've seen is what we'll get."

What?! But he'll have new coaches, new Oline coach, new schemes and a new speed WR. Of course he'll be someone else. He's never had this before!

Oh wait...I forgot. He has.

;)

Who are you quoting?

Alluro

05-08-2004, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka

what did he do to get them to the superbowl? and how did he do in the superbowl... 2 tds and 4ints.. stellar performance considering the magnitude of the game.. or should i say, typical performance against good competition.

i could sit here and rip apart those 10 records he got in his first year.. passing attempts in a game.. passing attempts in a season.. passing yards in a game.. in a season.. ect.. and try to explain to you how those did not help us win.. but you dont want to hear that..

all i can say is.. brady performs his best when the pressure is on.. he wins games with absolutely no threat of a running game and no big name receivers.. he makes smart plays and doesnt turn the ball over alot..

oh yeah.. and he is a 2 time superbowl mvp.. that is enough for me.. drew could have 30ints and 10 tds.. but if he played like brady in the clutch.. i could care less.. but that is not drew.. he blows up the weak teams and gets killed by the good ones.. always has.. he has won in the playoffs when he has had a good enough team around him to cover for his mistakes.. as i stated before in 6 playoff games, including the superbowl.. he has had more TDs that turnovers ONLY ONCE!!!! ONE TIME!!! how can that possibly inspire confidence?? how could you believe that he will be successful?

i get so tired of everyone making excuses for drew.. saying he his team in NE sucked, the team in buffalo sucked.. the coaching sucked.. granted... all of that may be true..

but why is farve successful every year.. every year that team is either in the playoffs or the superbowl.. his play is almost always consistent.. he has 6 seasons of over 30 td passes.. do you konw the most that drew ever had was 28.. one time.. and other than that one time, he has never even cracked 25?? EVER in his 11 year career.. good qbs make their team better.. period. drew does not make the team better.. he needs optimal circumstances at every position to show any success..

i understand that he is the start. i will be rooting for him this year, and i pray to god that MM can do what he did with kordell and maddox... hell, i love our new coaching staff and am fairly optimistic that he can help drew... but my point is that drew will never be brett farve.. he will never be a great qb.. he will never be a HOF qb..

losman could be.. we dont know.. and i have enough faith in our coaches that they can get him ready.. sure it is a risk.. at least with JP, there is some hope that he could be special.. is it ideal to put in a rookie qb??? hell no.. but i dont want any of the other scrubs taht are available either... it worked ok for manning.. it worked ok for several rookies.. at least if we take a chance, we are moving in the right direction for the future.. drew is not the future.. so we are just stalling the inevitable, imho.

:bf1:

Tatonka

05-09-2004, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I freely admit I was. Does that mean I have to continue to be happy eventhough he has played like s#it 65% of the games he's been our QB?

me too.

saviorbledsoe

05-09-2004, 08:39 AM

As always, I am just happy that none of you are Tom Donahoe. :)

The only move he made that I ever disagreed with was the Mcgahee pick and it will probably prove me wrong this year.

Bledsoe is here and ya'll got to deal. You all obsess about it like some one ***** in your cereal or something :)

buffmaniac

05-09-2004, 09:05 AM

According to Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News, Drew's average salary will rank him 17th among starting NFL QBs.

The contract in essence is 2 years for 13 million. Drew is unlikely to see the 2006 salary because Losman should be ready to take over by then.

The fact is that if you think Drew can still play then you probably like the contract. On the other hand if you don't think Drew can play then you probably don't like the contract.

And for those of you concerned. Don't worry Drew will bounce back with a good season now that he has a respectable offensive coaching staff compared to the last 2 years.

Ickybaluky

05-09-2004, 09:29 AM

Even when Drew has had good coaching in the past, he has struggled against good teams. Why would you expect that to change at this point?

The contract isn't bad when you consider they removed the uncertainty surrounding Bledsoe's status and provided stability in the short-term (with Bledsoe) and long-term (Losman). That said, they paid a premium to keep him, considering his play.

Dozerdog

05-09-2004, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by NE39
Even when Drew has had good coaching in the past, he has struggled against good teams. Why would you expect that to change at this point?

The contract isn't bad when you consider they removed the uncertainty surrounding Bledsoe's status and provided stability in the short-term (with Bledsoe) and long-term (Losman). That said, they paid a premium to keep him, considering his play.

It all depends what you value a "premium" contract.

If mark Gaugn's contract info is correct- and this deal pays him as the 17th best QB- he's getting what he's worth. When he's not saddled with the 32nd best coach or the 32nd best OC, he's a mid-level QB. He's getting paid like one.

buffmaniac

05-09-2004, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by NE39
Even when Drew has had good coaching in the past, he has struggled against good teams. Why would you expect that to change at this point?

Well when Drew had good coaching in 96 he was able to take his team to the Super Bowl. Something other QBs including McNabb and Manning have been unable to do. We'll have to wait and see how Drew does this year with the new coaching staff. He seems pretty motivated to rebound but only time will tell. That said I think the 17th ranked salary among starting QBs is pretty reasonable.

Novacane

05-09-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog

I don't live in buffalo- so i don't see local TV. Unless he's been selling a lot on the sports segments (which is out of his character) I haven't seen any other media sources where he's been "pimping" this deal.

Yeah- there is the obligitory Mike in the face after the announcement has been made- but where exactly is this great "Sales Job" been taking place?

I haven't seen it

Listen...............maybe you misunderstood me. I'm not saying he's out SEEKING the interviews to sell this. However, WGR and simon and Brinson have had him on last week. Both times when asked about the deal he gives this speech along the lines of not many players would do what Drew did. Drew ended up with 1/2 mill more this year according to todays Buff news. I disagree with TD that very few players would have done this. I just drew the conclusion that he's trying to paint Drew in a positve lite because he knows Drew has been under heavy fire.

ScottLawrence

05-09-2004, 01:39 PM

You people make me want to hate Donahoe.

Tatonka

05-09-2004, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
You people make me want to hate Donahoe.

if we have a losing record again this season.. alot of people will hate donahoe.

ScottLawrence

05-09-2004, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka

if we have a losing record again this season.. alot of people will hate donahoe.

Agreed, him and Bledsoe would be gone.

Novacane

05-09-2004, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by ScottLawrence

Agreed, him and Bledsoe would be gone.

I can't see it. If we had another bad season I agree Drew would likely be gone but no way on TD. Ralph seems to be really high on him. Firing TD would likely mean firing all the coachs and eating thier contracts because a new GM would want his own guy. No Way TD is in Danger this season IMO. I think he is safe until we see how Losman turns out

HenryRules

05-09-2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
As always, I am just happy that none of you are Tom Donahoe. :)

The only move he made that I ever disagreed with was the Mcgahee pick and it will probably prove me wrong this year.

Bledsoe is here and ya'll got to deal. You all obsess about it like some one ***** in your cereal or something :)

You know what ... I guarantee you that I could run the team and not make the playoffs for 3 consecutive years.

I think after Bledsoe signed the deal, there were 3 or 4 threads started about how this was a selfless thing and a ton of money was being saved for the team - people that disagreed with this view were criticized and basically called foolish.

Now that they're proven right, it's said "just deal with it" ... if that's the sentiment ... why don't we just close down the forums and open them up once the season starts?

chernobylwraiths

05-09-2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by HenryRules

You know what ... I guarantee you that I could run the team and not make the playoffs for 3 consecutive years.

I think after Bledsoe signed the deal, there were 3 or 4 threads started about how this was a selfless thing and a ton of money was being saved for the team - people that disagreed with this view were criticized and basically called foolish.

Now that they're proven right, it's said "just deal with it" ... if that's the sentiment ... why don't we just close down the forums and open them up once the season starts?

Well, everyone was told by the Bills management that is was selfless.

Nothing has been proven right. Some of these people wanted cuts that were unrealistic, or to outright cut Bledsoe and start Losman. That is what they want, to be rid of Drew and that is fine. They have a right to their opinion, but the reality was that it was almost never going to happen.

If it is looked on as a paycut, you can't look at it as a paycut in the first year only. I think it was a good move by Drew if he wanted to stay with the team and he took a hit in dollars in order to stay for at least two years. Over two years, and especially three years, he will be making quite a bit less.

saviorbledsoe

05-09-2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by HenryRules
if that's the sentiment ... why don't we just close down the forums and open them up once the season starts?

Good idea!

:3star:

HenryRules

05-09-2004, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by chernobylwraiths
Nothing has been proven right. Some of these people wanted cuts that were unrealistic, or to outright cut Bledsoe and start Losman. That is what they want, to be rid of Drew and that is fine. They have a right to their opinion, but the reality was that it was almost never going to happen.

Actually, when people talk of a selfless act - that normally means that someone is giving something up. As the numbers do show that Drew gets the same this year before and after the cut, I wouldn't call that selfless. As to the future of the deal, who's to say what would have happened either way. No one knows that. But how someone can justify calling it selfless is beyond me.

HenryRules

05-09-2004, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog

I don't live in buffalo- so i don't see local TV. Unless he's been selling a lot on the sports segments (which is out of his character) I haven't seen any other media sources where he's been "pimping" this deal.

Yeah- there is the obligitory Mike in the face after the announcement has been made- but where exactly is this great "Sales Job" been taking place?

I haven't seen it

Here's one that specifically mentions that Drew made concessions this year:

``I want to applaud Drew,'' Donahoe added. ``It's not strictly shuffling money around. He's made some (financial) concessions this year and over the next couple of years to help the football team.''
http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=22188
(that's from the "latest Bills news" thread)

Tatonka

05-09-2004, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Good idea!

:3star:

cool! you start!

Novacane

05-09-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka

cool! you start!

:bf1:

saviorbledsoe

05-09-2004, 09:17 PM

How is my favorite couple doing today? :)

Tatonka

05-09-2004, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
How is my favorite couple doing today? :)

wow.. that was so good. you really brought the house down with that one.

:rolleyes:

saviorbledsoe

05-09-2004, 09:49 PM

Wasn't meant to make anyone laugh. You are one of those kids that says "whatever" when you run out of comebacks arent you?

Novacane

05-10-2004, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Wasn't meant to make anyone laugh. You are one of those kids that says "whatever" when you run out of comebacks arent you?

And you are one of those kids that just can't get it thru your head that comments like that make you the laughing stock of this message board. :scratch:

saviorbledsoe

05-10-2004, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Fairway To Green

And you are one of those kids that just can't get it thru your head that comments like that make you the laughing stock of this message board. :scratch:

Cant you get it through your head that even if that were true...i dont care.....this is a WEBSITE!

Not my neighborhood. Get a life with your attitude that this is some kind of important community.

lol

buffmaniac

05-10-2004, 06:40 AM

Come on people. Everyone needs to just relax. Everyone can have their opinion about Drew and his contract.

The fact is still that when you compare Drew's new contract to his old one he is still losing out on money that he could have possibly earned. That is called making a concession.

And Drew's contract is really a 2 yr deal worth 13 million which is pretty good. I mean Drew now has an average salary which will rank him 17th among starting QBs which I think is definitely reasonable. Of course I expect that Drew has a few good years left while others probably don't. And I'm sure that will affect people's opinion about the contract.

Ebenezer

05-10-2004, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
"...he gets $8 mil this year...the same as he would have had he not restructured..."

I'm confused. You say he helped the team, but if he is making the same money as with the old contract, how did the Bills benefit?

"...he saved the team $4mil this year...that gets transposed to next year if he sucks and we cut him..."

So by this statement he makes his bonanza millions no matter what, i.e., he moved the $4M to next year and will get it even if we cut him.

I say again....how does this benefit the Bills? :huh:

If he had made the $4M move based on incentives, then I can see the benefit.

If he had simply dropped that cost completely, then I can see the benefit.

But simply moving it to next year would only help if it allows TD to sign someone this year and we make the run this year. Otherwise we're going to pay Drew even if he s**ts the bed again and that's not acceptable.

Originally posted by BillsFever
What great act did Bledsoe do for us? He is still getting the same amount of money this year no matter what. Many players redo their contracts every year to create more cap room that season and receive the same amount of cash but the team pays for it later in the salary cap aspect.

Now tell me. Are these 50+ players every year who redo their contracts to free more cap room but receive the same amount of cash all saints too? I guess Rob Johnson was a saint to the team also. He redid his contract at times to create more room that season but we paid for it later on. How about all the scrubs John Butler did that for to create more cap room that season but they still got paid the same. Are these guys saints too?

Bledsoe did nothing for the team. He's making the same amount of cash. The same things almost 100 players do every year to create more cash for their team. It's not like he gave up any money for his miserable production.

And wasn't he the one who said after the new contract that money wasn't an issue to him and that he just wants to win? He's making the same amount of money. If anything he bought himself another year of making mega millions from us because it will cost us 4 million to cut him after this season now.

If he was such a saint like the lovers wanted to make him out to be last week then he would've taken a pay cut. Just not redo his contract to create more room this year for the team but still receive the same amount of cash. He's still making 8 million this season no matter what. Tell us again exactly what he sacrificed for the team? Same amount of cash he was gonna make anyway. Yeah, what a classy move by Bledsoe. I feel so sorry for him.

neither of you understand how the salary cap works, do you?