QB success factors?

[TigerJ]

With the inevitable comparisons between the four QBs taken in the first round, this might be an interesting topic for discussion. What factors are most important in determining the ultimate success in a QB's career?

We've already heard about the guy who predicted that Eli Manning won't be as successful as his older brother because he doesn't have the ideal personality type according to the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test (and incidently the same guy predicted Ryan Leaf would flop).

We've also heard that Losman has the best measurables (arm strength, 40 time, quickest release) of the four. And we've heard a comparison of the situations in which the 4 QBs find themselves.

In theory, Losman has the best situation because he is not under pressure to start early, has a mature QB (without big ego issues) to mentor him, and presumably the strongest coaching situation with Mularkey, Clements, and Wyche all having experience in helping QBs succeed.

Can a great situation and solid coaching make the difference between success and failure for a QB? Is aptitude more important than measurables? Are you optimistic that Losman can have a great career even though he was not the highest rated QB in the draft. Can the situation here overcome any shortcomings he might have in comparison with the other three?

[BigZ]

Originally posted by TigerJ


Can a great situation and solid coaching make the difference between success and failure for a QB? Is aptitude more important than measurables? Are you optimistic that Losman can have a great career even though he was not the highest rated QB in the draft. Can the situation here overcome any shortcomings he might have in comparison with the other three?


Answers to your questions in order (all of you need to refer to the above quote. If you get dizzy moving your head up and down, stop and have another beer.

Definitely Yes.
Probably not - my reasoning - Terry Bradshaw.
Yes.
Hell yes.

:peacesign

[Jan Reimers]

Great post, TigerJ. I think any successful QB needs the physical tools, which Losman certainly has. Then, assuming he is not a head case in the mold of Jeff George or Ryan Leaf, the twin SSs determine most of his success - Situation and System.

I say this because there are major differences in personality types among the great QBs, so I don't believe that a Briggs Meyer rating is necessarily a major indicator of success. I won't belabor this point, but compare Bart Starr to Brett Favre, or Joe Naimeth to Joe Montana, and you will see as many or more differences than similarities in their personalities.

Most great QBs have, or have had, great situations in terms of coaching and on-field talent, and play, or have played, in systems that complement their particular skills. Montana is a prime example of this. Would he have done as well without Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, and the West Coast offense? I doubt it.

Conversely, would Broadway Joe have thrived in a conservative, short passing offense, or Starr in a big time vertical passing game?

Think about Unitas, or Jurgenson, or Kelly, Elway, Marino, or Aikman. All had great physical ability, which is absolutely necessary. All probably had some similar personality traits - one would think competitiveness would be a common element among all great athletes - but each might measure somewhat differently in terms of a Briggs Meyer-type evaluation.

The common denominators in their success, besides physical ability, were situation and system.

[TigerJ]

You pointed out Terry Bradshaw, zielinski, as an example of aptitude probably not being more important than measurables. He and other QBs had great measurables, but then there are the Chad Penningtons of the league. I doubt he'll have a hall of fame career, but he looks like he's going to have a successful one. On the other hand there is Ryan Leaf who had great measurables and washed out of the league as one of the biggest busts of all time.

I think the one conclusion you can make without hesitation is that the guys who can successfully evaluate talent and put their careers on the line by drafting these guys and signing them to big money salaries deserve a lot of credit. It's a daunting challenge. I'm an unapologetic optimist, so I'm hopeful that Losman is going to be a great one.

I think there is a lot of merit in what you said, Jan. Some QBs would be successful in only some situations or systems. I do think that some may be more adaptable than others. I could see Brett Favre or John Elway being successful in more than one system.

[BigZ]

Good post TigerJ.

Good coaches manage to find a way to utilize players (especially QBs). I don't think DB was used the best in Gilbride's system. I'm optimistic that MM, Clements and Wyche can fix that and tweak the system even more should we need to use Losman next year.

I agree with your comment about Favre and Elway but I do think that an offensive coach could even screw up a system bad enough to make them look less than stellar. Gilbride could do it with his eyes closed.

Let's hope the optimism most of us feel about the new coaches is rewarded!

[TigerJ]

Yeah, you're right, zielinski. Some coaches/coordinators can find a way to screw up almost anyone. I don't know if you're old enough to remember, but John Rauch was the heead coach of the Bills during the early OJ years. Rauch had the brillian't idea that he would use OJ Simpson as a decoy. Duh! Gilbride's system definitelyi requires a certain type of QB to have any chance of success. Gilbride's QB has to have a lightning quick mind (Bledsoe doesn't), he must be very adept at reading defences (Bledsoe is pretty good at that but slow), and a strong arm (Bledsoe does have that. If that's not enough, Gilbride's system also requires WRs who are smart and can make quick reads to choose the right route from multiple options depending on what the DB does. The QB who can handle everything Gilbride's offence demands may exist, but he's a pretty rare breed.

[BigZ]

I'm way older that the Rauch story. It does bring back memories though. I was almost as happy to see him leave as Gilbride!

The part of Gilbride's system that is pretty close to impossible to work is in the passing game, the WR and the QB need to make the SAME reads.

If Bledsoe sees something and figures that Reed is changing to a slant and Reed does a hitch and go instead it turns into an interception over the middle and Drew looks like a clown.

How many times did that happen last year? The WR and Drew know but if they told all it would look like they were making excuses. We all know Drew won't do that whether you like him or not.

Here's to simplification! I think it will make a tremendous difference to the offence.

[matt]

Looking into my crystal ball I like the second 2 taken, I put alot of stock into what Jaws says and he does not like Rivers, also I think the NY pressure on Manning will have him fold like a towel out of the dryer.Big Ben was the man I wanted Buffalo to get and I love the attitude of Losman.