How many QBs would you take before Drew for this season?

[buffmaniac]

According to Buff News, Drew's average salary will rank him 17th among starting NFL QBs. So how many QBs starting on other teams would you take before Bledsoe for this season?

My take:
AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer NO
Balt - Boller NO
Cle - Garcia Maybe

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr NO
Jax - Leftwich maybe

AFC west
KC - Green maybe
SD - Rivers/Brees NO
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer Maybe

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger NO
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson NO
Car - Delhomme YES
NO - Brooks Maybe

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington NO
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell maybe
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

10 YES
6 Maybe
15 NO

So really Bledsoe would fall somewhere around 12-14 IMO so the 17th salary is pretty fair. What do you guys think?

[Novacane]

most of those guys you marked no next to could do better than 10TDs and 24 turnovers

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
most of those guys you marked no next to could do better than 10TDs and 24 turnovers

Not if they had Gilbride as their OC, if they had their best WR injured, and if they had a struggling OL.

Honestly how many guys would you seriously rather have as our QB next year instead of Drew?

[Novacane]

of your 6 maybes I'd take 5 of them over Drew. I don't like brooks so I'd put him under no.

from your no's I'd say yes to Carr and Harrington. Maybe to Mcnown, Bulger, Johnson,

[buffmaniac]

.
Originally posted by Fairway To Green
of your 6 maybes I'd take 5 of them over Drew. I don't like brooks so I'd put him under no.

from your no's I'd say yes to Carr and Harrington. Maybe to Mcnown, Bulger, Johnson,

That's not a bad assessment. Obviously my maybe guys could go either way.

I would not take Carr or Harrington over Drew at this point. Neither has proven anything yet.

Bulger could be a maybe but McCown and Johnson are definite NOs to me.

Even with your rankings though you still would have Drew as the #17 QB so I guess you think his salary is fair. Or do you?

[Novacane]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
.



Even with your rankings though you still would have Drew as the #17 QB so I guess you think his salary is fair. Or do you?



I guess so if thats what NFL QB's are making. If he plays like the 17th best QB I'll be happy. I can't take anymore #32 ranked QB play like last year

[saviorbledsoe]

Why would u start this Buffmaniac? Some of these guys who are obsessed with bashing Drew are like vulchers looking for anything to strike at.......... but usually end up eating dead Sh@!. :)

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I guess so if thats what NFL QB's are making. If he plays like the 17th best QB I'll be happy. I can't take anymore #32 ranked QB play like last year

Neither can I. Drew does need to play better. I think the new coaches, the new schemes, getting some players healthy (Moulds/McGahee) and some of the other player additions(Villarrial/Evans) all will help Drew rebound. And if Drew can regain his old form he very possibly could be a top 10 QB this year.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Why would u start this Buffmaniac? Some of these guys who are obsessed with bashing Drew are like vulchers looking for anything to strike at.......... but usually end up eating dead Sh@!. :)




Unlike you.............most of us can have a Bledsoe discussion without it turning into "bashing"

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by buffmaniac


Neither can I. Drew does need to play better. I think the new coaches, the new schemes, getting some players healthy (Moulds/McGahee) and some of the other player additions(Villarrial/Evans) all will help Drew rebound. And if Drew can regain his old form he very possibly could be a top 10 QB this year.

I totally agree. But 3 people will regurgitate that he "has never been a great qb"

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Why would u start this Buffmaniac? Some of these guys who are obsessed with bashing Drew are like vulchers looking for anything to strike at.......... but usually end up eating dead Sh@!. :)

Sorry Savior

I'm hoping that some people will see that Drew is still better than alot of QBs on other teams.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Unlike you.............most of us can have a Bledsoe discussion without it turning into "bashing"


Originally posted by Fairway To Green
most of those guys you marked no next to could do better than 10TDs and 24 turnovers

You were saying?

[B-DON]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Why would u start this Buffmaniac? Some of these guys who are obsessed with bashing Drew are like vulchers looking for anything to strike at.......... but usually end up eating dead Sh@!. :)

just like your a vulture(spelling?) to strike at anyone who makes even slightest negative remark about bledsoe

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
most of those guys you marked no next to could do better than 10TDs and 24 turnovers




facts are facts.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by B-DON


just like your a vulture(spelling?) to strike at anyone who makes even slightest negative remark about bledsoe


:bf1:

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by buffmaniac


Sorry Savior

I'm hoping that some people will see that Drew is still better than alot of QBs on other teams.

I was once like you my friend.....so full of hope that this website would be full of intelligent and positive people and that people could give a guy who rescued a team from Rob Johnson a chance to make a mistake now and then.....but then harsh reality realed its ugly face.....in the image of Tiger Woods and a Redwings hockey player......

I will probably be banned for that so I will maybe see u all next week. At least as Saviorbledsoe........if not ill see you as......

[B-DON]

only 11qbs on that list are worse than bledsoe afew are only because their young so realisticly only about 6 or 7 are worse

[Novacane]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


At least as Saviorbledsoe........if not ill see you as......

..............Drews****dontstink

[The Spaz]

:calm:

[B-DON]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green


..............Drews****dontstink

ROFL LOL HAHAHA

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by B-DON
only 11qbs on that list are worse than bledsoe afew are only because their young so realisticly only about 6 or 7 are worse

Only 11? There are only 32 teams.

That means that 34% of the QBs in the NFL were worse. Thats not bad for the guys worst season ever.

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
I totally agree. But 3 people will regurgitate that he "has never been a great qb"

I wonder what qualifications are needed to be considered a "great QB"

Make the Pro Bowl - Drew has made 4
Take a team to the Super Bowl - Drew has done it
Throw for 4000yds in a season - Drew has done it 3 times

What would Drew have to do in order to be considered a "great QB"?

[Novacane]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


I was once like you my friend.....so full of hope that this website would be full of intelligent and positive people and that people could give a guy who rescued a team from Rob Johnson a chance to make a mistake now and then



8-8...............6-10....................you call that rescuing and a mistake now and then :rofl:

[saviorbledsoe]

I see u found a friend in Rick James....congrats lol

[justasportsfan]

saviour instead of worrying what anyone has to say about Drew, how about you tell us which qb's you would take over Drew.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
saviour instead of worrying what anyone has to say about Drew, how about you tell us which qb's you would take over Drew.


thats just it. He has to turn every thread into a pissing match.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



8-8...............6-10....................you call that rescuing and a mistake now and then :rofl:

from 3-13 to 8 and 8 is

and the "mistake" was last year.

I love how you guys cant get it through your head the facts that he lost Peerless, Remiersma, Centers. Moulds was like 40%, Henry was at like 60%, Drew himself had like 2 or 3 concussions, the o-line couldnt do jack, the playcalling was terrible, and the coaching was herendous.

Now I can say that YES Drew DID stink last year. But you should be able to admit that it wasnt ALL his fault and be able to give him a fair chance this year with all the corrections, additions, and new coaching.

IM OUT!

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
saviour instead of worrying what anyone has to say about Drew, how about you tell us which qb's you would take over Drew.


I rate my QBs on toughness....so Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie,
P. Manning, or Brett Farve

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe



I rate my QBs on toughness....so Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie,
P. Manning, or Brett Farve :scratch:

[B-DON]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


Only 11? There are only 32 teams.

That means that 34% of the QBs in the NFL were worse. Thats not bad for the guys worst season ever.

so does being the 12th ****tiest qb get us to the playoffs? no even delhomme can do it and i thought bledsoe was 3 classes above delhomme. just proves how much bledsoe sucked last year btw not his first terrible season

[buffmaniac]

I know everyone wants to just look at last year and write Drew off. But you just can not ignore the fact that the coaching, the Moulds' injury, and the play of the OL had to affect Drew's play.

Not the best analogy but its like if I were to write off Moulds based on his season last year without taking into account the fact that he was injured.

And if you want to tell me that Drew has never been good just go look at his seasons from 96-98 and in 2002. The guy was a top QB in the league during those years.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
:scratch:

what dont you understand?

my 2 hour lunch break has to end soon lol

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by B-DON


so does being the 12th ****tiest qb get us to the playoffs? no even delhomme can do it and i thought bledsoe was 3 classes above delhomme. just proves how much bledsoe sucked last year btw not his first terrible season

and how many of those qbs listed above havent had a bad year or 2?
and better question.........if not drew than who? Lossman isnt an option unless u want to ruin him.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


what dont you understand?

my 2 hour lunch break has to end soon lol Get with the program, I mean the list of qb's buffmaniac had on the 1st post.

[B-DON]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


from 3-13 to 8 and 8 is

and the "mistake" was last year.

I love how you guys cant get it through your head the facts that he lost Peerless, Remiersma, Centers. Moulds was like 40%, Henry was at like 60%, Drew himself had like 2 or 3 concussions, the o-line couldnt do jack, the playcalling was terrible, and the coaching was herendous IM OUT!


sounds like the dolphins and they still won 10 games with way crappier qbs

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Get with the program, I mean the list of qb's buffmaniac had on the 1st post.

well since Kelly and Flutie arent on the list then I guess we know my answer is Favre and Peyton Manning.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by B-DON



sounds like the dolphins and they still won 10 games with way crappier qbs

yeah you point out the similaritys to the Dolphins and I will look forward to reading that at 6 tonight.

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by B-DON
sounds like the dolphins and they still won 10 games with way crappier qbs

What is your point? All this shows me is just how bad of an OC Gilbride was. Did you see my thread I started a few days ago about Gilbride? In 2000 under Gilbride Pitt was 22nd on O. Next year the same team under Mularkey was 3rd. I'm telling you Gilbride was the offense's biggest problem. Now that he is gone this offense will be much better off.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


well since Kelly and Flutie arent on the list then I guess we know my answer is Favre and Peyton Manning. Okay, at least we know if there is anything to be discussed w/ the qb situation , your thoughts on it won't matter because you are a Drew fan which is based on emotions rather than objectivity or ability. Nothing wrong with that, I am a bills fan whether we suck or not. I'm not a Drew fan however.

[B-DON]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
I see u found a friend in Rick James....congrats lol

nominating this post for worst post of the year. and he actually thought it was funny is what kills me

[B-DON]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


yeah you point out the similaritys to the Dolphins and I will look forward to reading that at 6 tonight.

both had crap qb's, crap o-line, decent receivers and a stellar running backs. i suppose your going to say it was gilbride's fault. everyone here says wanny is a crap coach so you have no argument there. btw the best coaching staff in the league didnt want bledsoe but somehow you think mularkey will make him a superstar.not happening but i at least hope he plays decent(20td,12int) but still that might be a reach

[buffmaniac]

I just don't understand why people think Drew is so bad.

93-95
1993 New England 13 12 429 214 49.9 2494 15 15 65.0
1994 New England 16 16 691 400 57.9 4555 25 27 73.6
1995 New England 15 15 636 323 50.8 3507 13 16 63.7
Drew struggled in his first few years like most young QBs who are thrown right into action especially with ints. So I cut Drew some slack here. That said in 94 He still had 4555 yds and 25 tds plus he made the Pro Bowl and got his team into the playoffs.

96-98
1996 New England 16 16 623 373 59.9 4086 27 15 83.7
1997 New England 16 16 522 314 60.2 3706 28 15 87.7
1998 New England 14 14 481 263 54.7 3633 20 14 80.9
Drew played very well and was a top QB in the league at this time. He lead his team to the playoffs each year and all the way to the Super Bowl in 96. He also made the Pro Bowl in 96 and 97.

99-00
1999 New England 16 16 539 305 56.6 3985 19 21 75.6
2000 New England 16 16 531 312 58.8 3291 17 13 77.3
Drew had a couple of rough years. I have said that he didn't have a reliable RB or OL in either year. Sometimes players have down years.

01
2001 New England 2 2 66 40 60.6 400 2 2 75.3
Drew gets hurt after 2 games and is traded after the season

02
2002 Buffalo Bills 16 16 610 375 61.5 4359 24 15 86.0
Drew has a very good year. Some say his 2nd half sucked yet he still put an 80+QB rating in 4 of the 8 games. He also makes the Pro Bowl and with a better D quite possibly would have taken us to the playoffs. And he does all of this with 1 of the worst OCs in the league.

03
2003 Buffalo Bills 16 16 471 274 58.2 2860 11 12 73.0
Drew struggles. But as it has been stated: bad coaching, Moulds injury, and bad OL play all were factors.

Drew is a good QB and with better coaching this season he will be a top 10 QB in this league. Mark my words.
There I am done. I just had to get that out of my system.

[STAMPY]

pennington, brady, culpepper, favre, vick, mcnair, brooks, hasselback, delahomme, , manning, mcnabb,

Carr and
Palmer maybe

[Novacane]

Originally posted by buffmaniac



Drew is a good QB and with better coaching this season he will be a top 10 QB in this league. Mark my words.
There I am done. I just had to get that out of my system.


So answer this............If Drew is not a top 10 QB this year will it be his fault ...........................or once again...................................the coaching :idunno:

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
According to Buff News, Drew's average salary will rank him 17th among starting NFL QBs. So how many QBs starting on other teams would you take before Bledsoe for this season?So really Bledsoe would fall somewhere around 12-14 IMO so the 17th salary is pretty fair. What do you guys think?

Under this scenario we could do the same thing at the WR or OT position...you can't debate guys who are under contract when you want to replace somebody...

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
So answer this............If Drew is not a top 10 QB this year will it be his fault ...........................or once again...................................the coaching :idunno:

I've said that this is a make it or break it year for Drew. If he doesn't bounce back this year under the new staff, then it is time to move on. But I am telling you right now Drew is going to have a good season. Mularkey, Clements, Wyche, and McNally will get this offense back on track.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
So answer this............If Drew is not a top 10 QB this year will it be his fault ...........................or once again...................................the coaching :idunno:

define top 10....

I'll put it simply...if he sucks like last year it will be him...simple enough?

[Novacane]

Originally posted by buffmaniac


I've said that this is a make it or break it year for Drew. If he doesn't bounce back this year under the new staff, then it is time to move on. But I am telling you right now Drew is going to have a good season. Mularkey, Clements, Wyche, and McNally will get this offense back on track.



Out of curiosity what will you consider a good season? You've said you expect him to have a top 10 rating but if he does not achieve that what will you still be happy with. I would consider top 10 a great season. Can't see that.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Out of curiosity what will you consider a good season? You've said you expect him to have a top 10 rating but if he does not achieve that what will you still be happy with. I would consider top 10 a great season. Can't see that.

IMO, DB gets cut after 2004 if he doesn't throw for at least 3200 yards 12-16 TDs and no more than 15 Ints...and decrease the fumbles...of course he has to stay healthy too...

[Throne Logic]

Well this thread started out with potential. I thought that Buffmaniac actually put things into perspective a bit regarding Drew's relative worth in the league.

Then things went down hill fast . . . as usual.

[ScottLawrence]

Manning, Carr, Delhomme, Brady, Pennington, Garcia, Culpepper, Farve, McNair, Green, Ramsey, Brunell, Plummer, Johnson, and Vick.

Forget McNabb.... he is the most overrated Quarterback in the NFL.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by B-DON


both had crap qb's, crap o-line, decent receivers and a stellar running backs. i suppose your going to say it was gilbride's fault. everyone here says wanny is a crap coach so you have no argument there. btw the best coaching staff in the league didnt want bledsoe but somehow you think mularkey will make him a superstar.not happening but i at least hope he plays decent(20td,12int) but still that might be a reach

Ohhhhhh except that there crap qb missed a bunch of games and ours toughed it out, their decent receivers werent injurred all year, and their stellar running back wansnt injured all year...other than that you are dead on! And hey another similarity, both teams had 11 guys called offense and 11 guys on defense.....the similaritys are endlesss.

As for the "best coaching staff" not wanting Bledsoe.....lets just assumer that NE has the best coaching staff, which I beg to differ (Dallas), Lets see????????who would I pick, the younger guy who won me the Superbowl or the older guy who didnt? Even if that NE team had Bret Favre as the injured starter that year he would have been replaced by Brady in that situation.

I!!!!!! am Rick James BEEOTCH!

[Novacane]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


Ohhhhhh except that there crap qb missed a bunch of games and ours toughed it out, their decent receivers werent injurred all year, and their stellar running back wansnt injured all year...other than that you are dead on! And hey another similarity, both teams had 11 guys called offense and 11 guys on defense.....the similaritys are endlesss.

As for the "best coaching staff" not wanting Bledsoe.....lets just assumer that NE has the best coaching staff, which I beg to differ (Dallas), Lets see????????who would I pick, the younger guy who won me the Superbowl or the older guy who didnt? Even if that NE team had Bret Favre as the injured starter that year he would have been replaced by Brady in that situation.

I!!!!!! am Rick James BEEOTCH!



Wow.....................savior just about made it thru an entire post without personally attacking someone. :rolleyes:

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green




Wow.....................savior just about made it thru an entire post without personally attacking someone. :rolleyes:

and now you have just insulted me

[Novacane]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


and now you have just insulted me



could you explain how you come to that conclusion from this


Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Wow.....................savior just about made it thru an entire post without personally attacking someone. :rolleyes:



:scratch:

[TKO]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
I rate my QBs on toughness....so Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie, P. Manning, or Brett Farve
so how does Steve McNair not fit on this list?

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
Lets see????????who would I pick, the younger guy who won me the Superbowl or the older guy who didnt? Even if that NE team had Bret Favre as the injured starter that year he would have been replaced by Brady in that situation.

This is so absolutely crazy that it physically hurts to read. :hitself:

Just so I'm sure..... you are saying that if NE had had Favre, they would have done the same thing with him as they did with Bledsoe, e.g., traded him and stuck with Brady?

[Novacane]

Don't try and reason with him Mr C

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
I just don't understand why people think Drew is so bad.

93-95
1993 New England 13 12 429 214 49.9 2494 15 15 65.0
1994 New England 16 16 691 400 57.9 4555 25 27 73.6
1995 New England 15 15 636 323 50.8 3507 13 16 63.7
Drew struggled in his first few years like most young QBs who are thrown right into action especially with ints. So I cut Drew some slack here. That said in 94 He still had 4555 yds and 25 tds plus he made the Pro Bowl and got his team into the playoffs.

96-98
1996 New England 16 16 623 373 59.9 4086 27 15 83.7
1997 New England 16 16 522 314 60.2 3706 28 15 87.7
1998 New England 14 14 481 263 54.7 3633 20 14 80.9
Drew played very well and was a top QB in the league at this time. He lead his team to the playoffs each year and all the way to the Super Bowl in 96. He also made the Pro Bowl in 96 and 97.

99-00
1999 New England 16 16 539 305 56.6 3985 19 21 75.6
2000 New England 16 16 531 312 58.8 3291 17 13 77.3
Drew had a couple of rough years. I have said that he didn't have a reliable RB or OL in either year. Sometimes players have down years.

01
2001 New England 2 2 66 40 60.6 400 2 2 75.3
Drew gets hurt after 2 games and is traded after the season

02
2002 Buffalo Bills 16 16 610 375 61.5 4359 24 15 86.0
Drew has a very good year. Some say his 2nd half sucked yet he still put an 80+QB rating in 4 of the 8 games. He also makes the Pro Bowl and with a better D quite possibly would have taken us to the playoffs. And he does all of this with 1 of the worst OCs in the league.

03
2003 Buffalo Bills 16 16 471 274 58.2 2860 11 12 73.0
Drew struggles. But as it has been stated: bad coaching, Moulds injury, and bad OL play all were factors.

Drew is a good QB and with better coaching this season he will be a top 10 QB in this league. Mark my words.
There I am done. I just had to get that out of my system.

:deadhorse

...but I'll answer anyway. ;)

1. His career completion percentage is 57%. He only had over 60% in 3 of 11 seasons, and even then just barely (60, 60.2 and 61.5). That's not the stuff of a top QB.

2. 4INTs for every 5TDs for his career. Again, not the stuff of a top QB.

3. 15-to-1 attempts-to-sacks ratio. Yes, the Oline has something to do with it, but over 11 years this also means he holds the ball too long which is not the stuff of a top QB.

4. Terrible W-L record against winning teams (something like 20%...forgot the number) and terrible playoff record (1-3 since '96). Basically he chokes in big games and/or against good teams.

Really all you need to do is refer to NE39's posts on Drew. I probably should have spent the zb's and made a sticky, since it really is the Reality of Drew. Good guy, tough, strong arm...but in the end is not consistent, doesn't win the big games and will lose you games with his lead feet/turnovers.

The thing is, he is not a young vet anymore. He will not get any better. He has been falling off since '98, with the exception of the first 8 games of '02, which really has to be looked at as more fluke than anything else. I just hope he can do something he has never been able to do ... be a caretaker like Delhomme and get out of the way of the rest of the team.

There, I've gotten that out of my system as well. ;)

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by Throne Logic
Well this thread started out with potential. I thought that Buffmaniac actually put things into perspective a bit regarding Drew's relative worth in the league.

Then things went down hill fast . . . as usual.

I said I think Drew ranks somewhere between 10-15 among starting QBs. If things go well like I expect, I think he can be a top 10 QB. I don't think it is that unrealistic. The guy was in the Pro Bowl just 2 seasons ago in 02.


Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
:deadhorse

...but I'll answer anyway. ;)

1. His career completion percentage is 57%. He only had over 60% in 3 of 11 seasons, and even then just barely (60, 60.2 and 61.5). That's not the stuff of a top QB.

2. 4INTs for every 5TDs for his career. Again, not the stuff of a top QB.

3. 15-to-1 attempts-to-sacks ratio. Yes, the Oline has something to do with it, but over 11 years this also means he holds the ball too long which is not the stuff of a top QB.

4. Terrible W-L record against winning teams (something like 20%...forgot the number) and terrible playoff record (1-3 since '96). Basically he chokes in big games and/or against good teams.


The thing is, he is not a young vet anymore. He will not get any better. He has been falling off since '98, with the exception of the first 8 games of '02, which really has to be looked at as more fluke than anything else. I just hope he can do something he has never been able to do ...


I might agree with you about Drew being on the decline if it wasn't for 2002. I'm sorry but I just don't agree that 2002 was fluke. You can say he had 1 good half of year but in the 2nd half of the season he still put up over 80QB rating in 4 of the 8 games. Drew's year in 2002 was very good by any QB standards. I'm sorry but you just don't fluke your way into a 4300yds 24 tds 2 WRs with 1000+yds a Pro Bowl invitation and 10 franchise records.

Sure Drew has his faults like any QB as you point out in your post but the fact is Drew has shown that he can be a top QB as he did from 96-98 and in 02. I'm telling you right now with this new coaching staff Drew is going to have a very good season. Mark my words.

[STAMPY]

Originally posted by ScottLawrence
Manning, Carr, Delhomme, Brady, Pennington, Garcia, Culpepper, Farve, McNair, Green, Ramsey, Brunell, Plummer, Johnson, and Vick.

Forget McNabb.... he is the most overrated Quarterback in the NFL.

mcnabb is an excellent qb... he struggled early last year. and rebounded instead opf folding up like crappy qb's would. he can scramble too. he finally has a wr to throw to now. his numbers have been top 5 last 3 years i'd say. and with TO it will only improve

[HenryRules]

Going back to the original question ... for one season only, I would definitely take the following players over Drew:
Pennington, Brady, Garcia, Manning, McNair, Green, Plummer, Bulger, Hasselbeck, Johnson, Delhomme, Culpepper, Favre, McNabb. I'd also have chosen Collins over Bledsoe as well.

However, salary is not solely based on what to expect for the current season, it's also based on what to expect in the future (that's why first rounders get so much money). For my starter in 2006, I'd also prefer the following players:
Palmer, Carr, Leftwich, McCown, and Manning.

That's 15 players for this season and 5 more for the future that I'd be willing to pay more for than Bledsoe. Bledsoe is in at 17th so maybe some might not consider that overpaid. However, I'd be curious to know what QB's are ahead/behind him. There may be some guys that got stupid salaries as rookies that are ahead of him (Couch?) while other players that are better and were recently available may be cheaper than him (Delhomme, Green, Garcia, Plummer?). The only way to determine whether Drew is worth his contract is if we compare it to other players that were available and the contracts they received.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by BuffaloBillsSTAMPEDE


mcnabb is an excellent qb... he struggled early last year. and rebounded instead opf folding up like crappy qb's would. he can scramble too. he finally has a wr to throw to now. his numbers have been top 5 last 3 years i'd say. and with TO it will only improve



Agree............anyone that would not take Mcnabb over Bledsoe is :gag:

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by TKO

so how does Steve McNair not fit on this list?

Mcnair gets hurt every single year and usually misses games. You can set your watch by it.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical


This is so absolutely crazy that it physically hurts to read. :hitself:

Just so I'm sure..... you are saying that if NE had had Favre, they would have done the same thing with him as they did with Bledsoe, e.g., traded him and stuck with Brady?

So if you had had a great starting QB....as good as Favre.....and your franchise has never won a SB....one year he gets hurt and a QB who is 6 years younger steps in and takes you all the way and you win the Superbowl for the first time ever.....you are telling me that you cut the young guy who took you to the promise land for the first time and you keep the older one who never could take you there??????????????

Your logic is crazy!

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
I might agree with you about Drew being on the decline if it wasn't for 2002. I'm sorry but I just don't agree that 2002 was fluke. You can say he had 1 good half of year but in the 2nd half of the season he still put up over 80QB rating in 4 of the 8 games. Drew's year in 2002 was very good by any QB standards. I'm sorry but you just don't fluke your way into a 4300yds 24 tds 2 WRs with 1000+yds a Pro Bowl invitation and 10 franchise records.

I won't quibble about QB ratings but IMO that is one of the most overrated and useless numbers for evaluating a QB. As such the 80+ rating you cite for 4 out of 8 games doesn't mean a whole lot to me (I'm just saying how I feel about it...no jabs at you)


Originally posted by buffmaniac
Sure Drew has his faults like any QB as you point out in your post but the fact is Drew has shown that he can be a top QB as he did from 96-98 and in 02. I'm telling you right now with this new coaching staff Drew is going to have a very good season. Mark my words.

So what you're saying is that Drew had 3.5 seasons as a "top QB" (96-98, half '02). Don't you think that is a little short for an 11 year career (and being paid that whole time like a top QB)? I do. :idunno:

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


So if you had had a great starting QB....as good as Favre.....and your franchise has never won a SB....one year he gets hurt and a QB who is 6 years younger steps in and takes you all the way and you win the Superbowl for the first time ever.....you are telling me that you cut the young guy who took you to the promise land for the first time and you keep the older one who never could take you there??????????????

Your logic is crazy!


Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Don't try and reason with him Mr C

I should have listened to ya FTG. ;)

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical




I should have listened to ya FTG. ;)

I proved that you are in the wrong and so you respond like that. Very nice! :baby:

[Mr. Cynical]

:shakeno:

[saviorbledsoe]

LOL u see ! lol
Once again....... riddle me this......

So if you had had a great starting QB....as good as Favre.....and your franchise has never won a SB....one year he gets hurt and a QB who is 6 years younger steps in and takes you all the way and you win the Superbowl for the first time ever.....you are telling me that you cut the young guy who took you to the promise land for the first time and you keep the older one who never could take you there??????????????

[finsrclowns]

AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO
Jets -Pennington Maybe
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer NO
Balt - Boller NO
Cle - Garcia No

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr NO
Jax - Leftwich No

AFC west
KC - Green No
SD - Rivers/Brees NO
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer No

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger NO
Sea - Hasselback Maybe
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson NO
Car - Delhomme Maybe
NO - Brooks No

NFC north
Min - Culpepper No
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington NO
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell No
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

6 YES
22 NO
3 Maybe

[Novacane]

There is a big differance between farve and Bledsoe. Bledsoe was struggling and about to be benched before he got hurt according to NE39.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
There is a big differance between farve and Bledsoe. Bledsoe was struggling and about to be benched before he got hurt according to NE39.

First of all...why should I put stock in what NE39 says? just because he is a pats fan doesnt make him best buddies with Belicheck.

And I am not saying that Bledsoe is as good as Favre. I am saying that ANY aging vet QB in that situation would have been kicked to the curb.

[saviorbledsoe]

And didnt Bledsoe get hurt in the 2nd game that year?????? Why would there be controversy for Bledsoe to be benched for a 6th round draft pick after 1 bad game?

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
I won't quibble about QB ratings but IMO that is one of the most overrated and useless numbers for evaluating a QB. As such the 80+ rating you cite for 4 out of 8 games doesn't mean a whole lot to me (I'm just saying how I feel about it...no jabs at you)

So what you're saying is that Drew had 3.5 seasons as a "top QB" (96-98, half '02). Don't you think that is a little short for an 11 year career (and being paid that whole time like a top QB)? I do. :idunno:

I have 2 questions for you: Honestly after the 2002 season did you think Drew was done or did you think he could still play? And how much blame do you put on Drew for last season? I'm just wondering

As for Drew's career. I have always said I cut Drew some slack for his early years when he was thrown into the fire right away. So I look at Drew like this: In his last 7 seasons excluding 01 when he was injured Drew has had 4 good yrs (96-98 02) and 3 bad years (99 00 03) So is it more likely that Drew was a good QB who hap a couple of bad years when his team and/or coaches were not that good or is it more likely that Drew was a bad QB who just happened to have some good years? From what happened with this team in 03 I would have to say the first of the two. At the very least, I think Drew has done enough good things in his career to warrant a chance to show what he can do under this new coaching staff. Thoughts?

[Novacane]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


First of all...why should I put stock in what NE39 says? .


Because he is very knowledgable IMO. He follows his team closely. He should know if Drew was playing poorly.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



Because he is very knowledgable IMO. He follows his team closely. He should know if Drew was playing poorly.

There are a few people on this board that follow their team very closely but if i took their word for fact about everything I would be a very depressed person.

[The Natrix]

No one. Maybe Manning, but I'd have to think about it.

[colin]

If he can do what he did with our 2002 O this year then I would not want another QB in there. Our team has to not be ******ed and run the ball when it is the right time, but we look to be so freakin stacked at RB that it should be a no brainer.

As far as QB stats go, I would much rather have a QB who gets big yards and fewer touchdowns if the team just runs the ball in when near the goal line.

The way our team is equiped, we should be able to move the ball well down the field and ram it in. I don't think QBs should be judged solely on how many TDs they throw for because in some cases it is just smarter to pound the rock in while down in close.

Either way, a QB is just a player on a team, although the most important player. We now have much much better coaching on O, and better talent at every skill position. I think we are gonna tear it up this year.

[BuffaloRanger]

Maybe we can keep this thread going until September. Then we might find out who is right. But there will probably still be roon for debate. And probably 100 more threads saying this same thing.

Let's all remember that even during the 4 SB years fans still hated Kelly and screamed for Reich after every Kelly INT.

Bills fans will find something not to like about the Bills. Some think Drew sucks.

For me, it's the O-Line. I don't think a team can make a serious run at the playoffs by giving up 50+ sacks a year. 50+ sacks will = at least 10 drive killing fumbles which = at least 3 lost games. It's a shame. Good coaching will help, how much we don't know. One stud OG or Center and this line could have been dominant. Now most of us are just hoping for "good".

But all this is just talk until after game 4. Then we can look at the problems with facts to back them up.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by buffmaniac


I have 2 questions for you: Honestly after the 2002 season did you think Drew was done or did you think he could still play? And how much blame do you put on Drew for last season? I'm just wondering

As for Drew's career. I have always said I cut Drew some slack for his early years when he was thrown into the fire right away. So I look at Drew like this: In his last 7 seasons excluding 01 when he was injured Drew has had 4 good yrs (96-98 02) and 3 bad years (99 00 03) So is it more likely that Drew was a good QB who hap a couple of bad years when his team and/or coaches were not that good or is it more likely that Drew was a bad QB who just happened to have some good years? From what happened with this team in 03 I would have to say the first of the two. At the very least, I think Drew has done enough good things in his career to warrant a chance to show what he can do under this new coaching staff. Thoughts?

I was excited to see Drew come to Buffalo .. I've admitted that many times. I just didn't do the homework at that time to know what he was really all about. I was like alot of people and was fooled by the mystique.

Yes, I still had some hope after 02, although after doing the homework that hope was short lived. He is not a consistent QB nor can he win the big games. So, when 03 rolled around I "hoped" I would be surprised. However, even though KG was horrible, Moulds injured, Price gone....I still saw more than enough times where Drew missed alot of easy throws into the flat to open receivers. That has nothing to do with anyone but Drew.

To answer your other question, I think he is an average QB that has had enough great games against bad teams to create the illusion of something better than he really is.

I hope he does better next year but I really am looking past the Drew era and want the JP era to start asap.

[The_Philster]

I really have to wonder about the logic of some who talk about a QB playing against good or bad teams. Last I knew, the entire team played against those teams. If a opponent has a decent defense but an awesome offense, I would think they'd be judged as a good team. How can you blame the QB if our defense simply fails to keep points off the board?

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by The_Philster
I really have to wonder about the logic of some who talk about a QB playing against good or bad teams. Last I knew, the entire team played against those teams. If a opponent has a decent defense but an awesome offense, I would think they'd be judged as a good team. How can you blame the QB if our defense simply fails to keep points off the board?

Exactly wins and losses are a team stat not a player stat. Jay Fiedler who stinks has a great win/loss record because of Miami's Defense so what does that mean. And the fact is Bledsoe has taken a team to the Super Bowl. And he had to win big games in order to get there. This is something many other QBs including Manning and McNabb have not been able to do.

[buffmaniac]

Here's a little comparison:

Bledsoe
g att comp % yds tds ints sacks
156 5599 3193 57.0 36876 201 165 365

Jim Kelly
g att comp % yds tds ints sacks
160 4779 2874 60.1 35467 237 175 304



I think everyone here would say that Kelly was a great QB. Well Kelly's and Bledsoe's #s have been pretty similar. I know but Jim Kelly won the big games while Bledsoe didn't. Well first Bledsoe did lead his team to the Super Bowl in 96 and you can not discount that. And secondly Jim Kelly was surrounded by Hall of Fame players and a Hall of Fame coach for most of his career. Jim Kelly was part of a great team. Bledsoe on the other hand has had very little around him at times during his career especially last season. This year we have better players and better coaches so lets see what Drew can do.

[Gunzlingr]

I would take:

Pennington
Ind - Manning
Tenn - McNair
Atl - Vick
GB- Favre

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
I was once like you my friend.....so full of hope that this website would be full of intelligent and positive people and that people could give a guy who rescued a team from Rob Johnson a chance to make a mistake now and then.....but then harsh reality realed its ugly face.....in the image of Tiger Woods and a Redwings hockey player......

I will probably be banned for that so I will maybe see u all next week. At least as Saviorbledsoe........if not ill see you as......

:wail:

:violin:




Originally posted by Fairway To Green
..............Drews****dontstink


classic... so fitting.


this is my first post on this thread.. and already the bledsoe lovers cry and cry and cry waiting for me to arive.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
There is a big differance between farve and Bledsoe. Bledsoe was struggling and about to be benched before he got hurt according to NE39.



Originally posted by Fairway To Green Because he is very knowledgable IMO. He follows his team closely. He should know if Drew was playing poorly.

FTG, just as a smart man once adviced , I share his advice to you and hopefully you may one day be as smart as him


here it is.........



Originally posted by Fairway To Green Don't try and reason with him


:snicker:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
I know but Jim Kelly won the big games while Bledsoe didn't.

nuff said.

[Tatonka]

My take:
AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer YES
Balt - Boller YES
Cle - Garcia YES

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr YES
Jax - Leftwich YES

AFC west
KC - Green YES
SD - Rivers YES
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer NO

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger NO
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson YES
Car - Delhomme YES
NO - Brooks YES

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington YES
Chi - Grossman YES

NFC east
NY - Manning YES
Was - Brunnell YES
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

23 YES
8 NO



i would take these guys over drew.. several of them are unproven and young.. but i will take youth and potential over an 11 year history of failure.

[The Spaz]

:boring::blah:

[Novacane]

Originally posted by justasportsfan





FTG, just as a smart man once adviced , I share his advice to you and hopefully you may one day be as smart as him


here it is.........





:snicker:




:D

[Novacane]

I make a promise I will be here admitting I was wrong and take the beating if Bledsoe plays great this season. Will the Bledsoedoesnowrongers be here admitting they were wrong if he sucks this season or will they make every excuse imaginable for his poor play.



I think we know the answer to that. Nuff said

[The Spaz]

Will the Bledose bashers have an excuse as to why Bledsoe was good, system, coaching etc.?

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Will the Bledose bashers have an excuse as to why Bledsoe was good, system, coaching etc.?

They always do.

As for FTG, I have said time and time again that I am not saying Bledsoe does no wrong............HE SUCKED LAST YEAR!!!!

But you and the others like goofball with the smilies wont give him any slack or one more chance.

If Bledsoe sucks again this year. I want him gone.

"Nuff Said" lol

[Novacane]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Will the Bledose bashers have an excuse as to why Bledsoe was good, system, coaching etc.?


an excuse as to why he plays good. That makes no sense :scratch: uh................no. If he plays well he plays well. Credit to him.

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Will the Bledose bashers have an excuse as to why Bledsoe was good, system, coaching etc.?

When was this again?

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



an excuse as to why he plays good. That makes no sense :scratch: uh................no. If he plays well he plays well. Credit to him.

oh come on Fairway!

You know all to well what that means. You and every other anti Drew posters will say that his only good games are against bad teams etc. There have been just as many exuses for why he has played good before as there are exuses for why he played bad last year.

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe


oh come on Fairway!

You know all to well what that means. You and every other anti Drew posters will say that his only good games are against bad teams etc. There have been just as many exuses for why he has played good before as there are exuses for why he played bad last year.

Once again when was this again? Was it his super bowl run that even Patriots fans admit was more to their D then Bledsoe.

[casdhf]

Originally posted by Tatonka


nuff said.

I can think of 4 where this wasnt the case.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by DraftBoy


Once again when was this again? Was it his super bowl run that even Patriots fans admit was more to their D then Bledsoe.

- First 7 games of 2002 work for you?

- And Pats fans are not going to give Drew any credit now that theyve got 2 rings and Brady and Drew is on a rival.


- As for that Superbowl, who says it has to be the QB alone that gets you to the Superbowl? He was the starting QB for a team that went to the Superbowl. If we went to the Superbowl this year mostly because of our defense does Drew not deserve the ring just as much as the rest of the team?

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by casdhf


I can think of 4 where this wasnt the case.

Im glad you went there. I wanted to.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
an excuse as to why he plays good. That makes no sense :scratch: uh................no. If he plays well he plays well. Credit to him.


Originally posted by DraftBoy
When was this again?

We will see. I think it will happen.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I make a promise I will be here admitting I was wrong and take the beating if Bledsoe plays great this season. Will the Bledsoedoesnowrongers be here admitting they were wrong if he sucks this season or will they make every excuse imaginable for his poor play.



I think we know the answer to that. Nuff said

i will be more than happy to as well.. if he throws up some good games against teams like NE, Miami, Tennessee.. good teams.. then i will eat a huge plate of crow.


Originally posted by The Spaz
Will the Bledose bashers have an excuse as to why Bledsoe was good, system, coaching etc.?

not true.


Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
oh come on Fairway!

You know all to well what that means. You and every other anti Drew posters will say that his only good games are against bad teams etc. There have been just as many exuses for why he has played good before as there are exuses for why he played bad last year.

so you would be ok with that then? if he won some easy games against the brown.. san fran.. oakland.. but lost all the games against our division rivals?

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Tatonka


i will be more than happy to as well.. if he throws up some good games against teams like NE, Miami, Tennessee.. good teams.. then i will eat a huge plate of crow.



not true.



so you would be ok with that then? if he won some easy games against the brown.. san fran.. oakland.. but lost all the games against our division rivals?

i never said that id be ok with that. i was pointing out that there are exuses for him playing well just as there are exuse for him playing poorly.

[Novacane]

If he has a great season as some have predicted he will have to play well against good teams as well as bad so I don't see the excuses comming from us. If he has 3 or 4great games against bad defenses and sucks the rest of the year he won't have the stats you guys are predicting so we won't have to make excuses.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
i never said that id be ok with that. i was pointing out that there are exuses for him playing well just as there are exuse for him playing poorly.

i guess i just dont see bledsoe beating up on bad teams and sucking against good ones as an excuse.. it is a valid point and a trend that he has had his whole career.

[buffmaniac]

You know if Bledsoe doesn't have a decent season and this team doesn't contend for a playoff spot then its time to move on at QB. There will be no excuses. We replaced KG and his overly complex schemes with Mularkey/Clements/Wyche and their much simpler and more effective schemes as one could see in Pitt. We've added some more speed which we greatly missed last year with the additions of Evans and McGahee. We will have our best offensive player IMO healthy again in Moulds. The OL will also be better now that we have a very respectable coach in McNally who actually has NFL experience compared to our previous coaches. I think the Bills have done a pretty good job addressing the problems that this offense had last year and now we can actually see whether Drew still has it or not.

The truth is we all watch the games and make opinions but none of us actually break down film and study every part of a play. But I'm sure that the new coaching has. And the fact is that if they didn't think Drew could play we would have let Bledsoe go and brought in someone else. But the new coaches obviously still think Drew can play and I have great respect for these new coaches and have to believe they know what they are talking about. I guess we will find out.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
You know if Bledsoe doesn't have a decent season and this team doesn't contend for a playoff spot then its time to move on at QB. There will be no excuses. We replaced KG and his overly complex schemes with Mularkey/Clements/Wyche and their much simpler and more effective schemes as one could see in Pitt. We've added some more speed which we greatly missed last year with the additions of Evans and McGahee. We will have our best offensive player IMO healthy again in Moulds. The OL will also be better now that we have a very respectable coach in McNally who actually has NFL experience compared to our previous coaches. I think the Bills have done a pretty good job addressing the problems that this offense had last year and now we can actually see whether Drew still has it or not.

But this reasoning is what always gets me.

"Now that we have...

1. Better coaches
2. Better WRs
3. Better system
4. Better RBs

...Drew should be better."

So would any other average QB. :scratch:

But that still doesn't mean you keep him and pay him $4.3M+. I just feel like everyone is bending over backwards to make him successful. Top QBs *find* a way to make it work. It's that simple. Look at Favre. Can you say he has had tons of talent to work with? No. But he still finds a way to win. In the end, that is what makes a top QB.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
But this reasoning is what always gets me.

"Now that we have...

1. Better coaches
2. Better WRs
3. Better system
4. Better RBs

...Drew should be better."

So would any other average QB. :scratch:

But that still doesn't mean you keep him and pay him $4.3M+. I just feel like everyone is bending over backwards to make him successful. Top QBs *find* a way to make it work. It's that simple. Look at Favre. Can you say he has had tons of talent to work with? No. But he still finds a way to win. In the end, that is what makes a top QB.


I told you guys!:rofl:

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by The_Philster
I really have to wonder about the logic of some who talk about a QB playing against good or bad teams. Last I knew, the entire team played against those teams. If a opponent has a decent defense but an awesome offense, I would think they'd be judged as a good team. How can you blame the QB if our defense simply fails to keep points off the board?

I agree that it is a team effort and your point about a crap D losing a game is valid. But you also have to look at the individual performance of the QB in those games over many years to get the picture. Again, 1 or 2 seasons isn't enough data. But 11 years is plenty to get the trend and trends don't lie.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by The Spaz



I told you guys!:rofl:

:huh:

[buffmaniac]

You see so many things were wrong with this team that there is no way any QB would have been successful. It wasn't just the coaching. It wasn't just the schemes. It wasn't just the WRs. It wasn't just the OL. It was the combination of all these things. Sure a top QB may be able to overcome 1 or 2 of these problems but not all of these problems in the same season. I'm telling you Drew is going to back bounce back with a good season. Mark my words.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
:huh:

I was saying if Bledsoe has a good year that the Bledsoe Bashers will make excuses as to why he did well, good coaching, lots of weapons etc.

[TedMock]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical


But this reasoning is what always gets me.

"Now that we have...

1. Better coaches
2. Better WRs
3. Better system
4. Better RBs

...Drew should be better."

So would any other average QB. :scratch:



You're exactly right here. This is why I haven't responded to this earlier. It's common sense that he (or anybody else)should play better under these circumstances. This logic holds true on the other side of the coin, too. "He plays well against bad teams, but struggles against good teams." Again, shouldn't ANY QB play better against bad teams? The logic being used on both sides of the argument is the same yet the argument persists. He's either extremely overrated or extremely underrated, but never in-between. It blows my mind. We should just all take him for what he is. He's not GREAT and he doesn't SUCK. He had a bad year last year, and a good one the year before. He's a solid QB, with a lot of talent, but he's not a guy who can win a game on his own. Guys like Favre, Kelly, Elway, etc.. are a rare breed. Most QB's can't take a game over. Favre still can, Vick can for different reasons but I've also seen guys like McNabb blow it because he's not very accurate and great QB's like Peyton Manning who seems to rattle pretty bad once you start hitting him. He's tough to get to, though. They can't do it alone either. Football's not like basketball where one guy can just take over at any point. I'm expecting Drew to have a good year not a great year. If we stick to the gameplan and run the ball successfully, he shouldn't have 4,000 yards. I'd be happy with around 3200 yards, 20-25 TD's, and 15 or fewer picks.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by The Spaz


I was saying if Bledsoe has a good year that the Bledsoe Bashers will make excuses as to why he did well, good coaching, lots of weapons etc.


Thats not making an excuse. Thats a reason. YOu all have been saying if he has healthy Moulds, better coachs, a speed reciever he will be a lot better.

Are you telling me if he plays well and I say "wow, you guys were right that Drew would play well if he had better coachs, a healthy moulds, and a speed reciever" that that is an excuse. :scratch: That would just be admitting you were right.

[Jeff1220]

I'm not going to read all of these posts, but here's my list:

Yes, I would certainly take _____ over Drew:
Pennington
Brady
P. Manning
McNair
Leftwich
Hasselback
Vick
Delhomme
Culpepper
Favre
McNabb

No, I would never take _______ over Bledsoe:
Fiedler
Feeley
Maddox
Brees
Bulger
B. Johnson
Brooks
Grossman
Carter

The rest fall under the category of "maybe" or "too early in their career to tell".

[B-DON]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical


But this reasoning is what always gets me.

"Now that we have...

1. Better coaches
2. Better WRs
3. Better system
4. Better RBs

...Drew should be better."

So would any other average QB. :scratch:

But that still doesn't mean you keep him and pay him $4.3M+. I just feel like everyone is bending over backwards to make him successful. Top QBs *find* a way to make it work. It's that simple. Look at Favre. Can you say he has had tons of talent to work with? No. But he still finds a way to win. In the end, that is what makes a top QB.

awesoe post nice points:rocker:

[B-DON]

Originally posted by The Spaz


I was saying if Bledsoe has a good year that the Bledsoe Bashers will make excuses as to why he did well, good coaching, lots of weapons etc.

just like the bledsoe dick riders will make excuses as why he sucked a fat one

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by B-DON
just like the bledsoe dick riders will make excuses as why he sucked a fat one

See it works both ways?!:up:

[B-DON]

Originally posted by The Spaz


See it works both ways?!:up:

exactly what i was thinking. imagine how many more times we are going to hear this same argument until the start of the season

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by B-DON
exactly what i was thinking. imagine how many more times we are going to hear this same argument until the start of the season

There will be at least 10 more threads about the subject before the season starts.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by B-DON


just like the bledsoe dick riders will make excuses as why he sucked a fat one

B-Don that statement B-Dumb!

[Novacane]

I thought it was funny

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Jeff1220
I'm not going to read all of these posts, but here's my list:

Yes, I would certainly take _____ over Drew:
Pennington
Brady
P. Manning
McNair
Leftwich
Hasselback
Vick
Delhomme
Culpepper
Favre
McNabb

No, I would never take _______ over Bledsoe:
Fiedler
Feeley
Maddox
Brees
Bulger
B. Johnson
Brooks
Grossman
Carter

The rest fall under the category of "maybe" or "too early in their career to tell".

good list.. although i would put grossman on the "too early" list as opposed to the never list. brad johnson is a superbowl winner that gets no respect.. i would take him.

brooks.. tough call there.. he is probably alot like bledsoe if i were to look at his numbers..


Originally posted by B-DON
the bledsoe dick riders

:eekeek:



Originally posted by B-DON
exactly what i was thinking. imagine how many more times we are going to hear this same argument until the start of the season

correction.. until bledsoe is no longer a bill.. and then for a while after that.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
B-Don that statement B-Dumb!

way to attack the post and not the poster.. good work. :up: i am proud of you. :D


Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I thought it was funny

me too.. :snicker:

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Tatonka


way to attack the post and not the poster.. good work. :up: i am proud of you. :D




yes all you have to do is say "that statement" was dumb and its politically correct.

just like i can say that your statements suck.

see

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
yes all you have to do is say "that statement" was dumb and its politically correct.

just like i can say that your statements suck.

see

your posts are the worst on this board.

:biggrin:

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Tatonka


your posts are the worst on this board.

:biggrin:

i did your posts' mother

:horse:

[bills_7]

AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady NO

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer NO
Balt - Boller NO
Cle - Garcia NO

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr NO
Jax - Leftwich maybe

AFC west
KC - Green NO
SD - Rivers/Brees NO
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer NO

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger NO
Sea - Hasselback Maybe
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson NO
Car - Delhomme NO
NO - Brooks NO

NFC north
Min - Culpepper NO
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington NO
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell maybe
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

Couch Maybe
Flutie Yes

Yes 7
Maybe 4
No 23

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
You see so many things were wrong with this team that there is no way any QB would have been successful. It wasn't just the coaching. It wasn't just the schemes. It wasn't just the WRs. It wasn't just the OL. It was the combination of all these things. Sure a top QB may be able to overcome 1 or 2 of these problems but not all of these problems in the same season. I'm telling you Drew is going to back bounce back with a good season. Mark my words.

The issue is that you still keep focusing only on his tenure with the Bills and the problems with this team. I keep focusing on the problems over his entire career. You really can't judge any player on 1 or 2 seasons. But over an 11 year span you can. How many times can you blame the "system" for his poor performances? He's had several systems and in each one has had the same problems.

Anyway, this debate can go on forever so I'm out until there is some fresh info to chew on. Peace. :D

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical


I'm out until there is some fresh info to chew on. Peace. :D

see ya sept. 12

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
Exactly wins and losses are a team stat not a player stat. Jay Fiedler who stinks has a great win/loss record because of Miami's Defense so what does that mean. And the fact is Bledsoe has taken a team to the Super Bowl. And he had to win big games in order to get there. This is something many other QBs including Manning and McNabb have not been able to do.

Very nicely said
Originally posted by buffmaniac
I think everyone here would say that Kelly was a great QB. Well Kelly's and Bledsoe's #s have been pretty similar. I know but Jim Kelly won the big games while Bledsoe didn't. Well first Bledsoe did lead his team to the Super Bowl in 96 and you can not discount that. And secondly Jim Kelly was surrounded by Hall of Fame players and a Hall of Fame coach for most of his career. Jim Kelly was part of a great team. Bledsoe on the other hand has had very little around him at times during his career especially last season. This year we have better players and better coaches so lets see what Drew can do.

That's part of what I was getting at when I wrote this (http://www.billszone.com/YourSite/global/templates/view.php?state=news&action=YourSite_content&month=3&nid=9340) ;)
Originally posted by Fairway To Green
I make a promise I will be here admitting I was wrong and take the beating if Bledsoe plays great this season. Will the Bledsoedoesnowrongers be here admitting they were wrong if he sucks this season or will they make every excuse imaginable for his poor play.



I think we know the answer to that. Nuff said
Bledsoedoesnowrongers? Sounds like you wanna make up something to ***** about. :cynic: No one has completely absolved Bledsoe of blame and anyone who believes otherwise...is beyond reason. :shakeno:


Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
I agree that it is a team effort and your point about a crap D losing a game is valid. But you also have to look at the individual performance of the QB in those games over many years to get the picture. Again, 1 or 2 seasons isn't enough data. But 11 years is plenty to get the trend and trends don't lie.
What trend, though? You just agreed that it's a team effort and it looks like you agreed that all members of the team have to perform in order to win games. If a player is consistently surrounded by a poor supporting cast, is it his fault? When Drew was surrounded by a good supporting cast, he's played well and his teams have done well.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by The_Philster
What trend, though? You just agreed that it's a team effort and it looks like you agreed that all members of the team have to perform in order to win games.

The trend of his personal performance in the games against good teams. That is independent of whether the D let the opponent score all over the place. That's the part I agreed with in your earlier post....that a lousy D can lose the game for you regardless of the QB performance. Although I will add that the top QBs will find a way to outscore the opponent...but that's not as clear cut and I won't try to push that issue at this point.


Originally posted by The_Philster
If a player is consistently surrounded by a poor supporting cast, is it his fault? When Drew was surrounded by a good supporting cast, he's played well and his teams have done well.

If *any* average NFL QB is surrounded by a good supporting cast he should and is expected to do well. But average QBs don't make the money he does, nor do people expect the things that people seem to expect from Drew. In addition, Drew has never played the role of an "average QB", e.g., like a Delhomme who just manages the game. Instead he tries to win games with the big play and gets burned alot more than not. That's why he is so risky to have as a QB.

[saviorbledsoe]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical


But average QBs don't make the money he does,

his salary this year puts him 17th out of 32

does that mean that none of the 16 qbs with higher salaries are only average?????????

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
If *any* average NFL QB is surrounded by a good supporting cast he should and is expected to do well. But average QBs don't make the money he does, nor do people expect the things that people seem to expect from Drew. In addition, Drew has never played the role of an "average QB", e.g., like a Delhomme who just manages the game. Instead he tries to win games with the big play and gets burned alot more than not. That's why he is so risky to have as a QB.
Question is, and one we should have answered in 2004, can he be that type of QB. It seems most offensive coordinators see that arm of his and put it on him to win the games with his arm. It's a rare breed that can consistently win games on his arm without the benefit of a strong supporting cast and I, for one, would never and have never claimed Drew was of that breed.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by The_Philster

Question is, and one we should have answered in 2004, can he be that type of QB. It seems most offensive coordinators see that arm of his and put it on him to win the games with his arm. It's a rare breed that can consistently win games on his arm without the benefit of a strong supporting cast and I, for one, would never and have never claimed Drew was of that breed.

I agree it is a good question, but one which I think Belichick answered by trading him 2 years ago. Among other things, I think he felt that Drew's natural instincts as a big play gunslinger were too ingrained to overcome. And the only time he has been effective in his tenure here is with the big plays. (In fact I specifically remember an interview with him in 02 where he said that's what he is all about)

Can MM turn him around? It's possible, sure. But IMO the probability is against it given his long history.

But as I've mentioned before...while I'm not throwing the season away, I still don't feel we will have a legitimate shot until JP has had 2 seasons under his belt. Hope I'm wrong but that's my gut feeling.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by bills_7
AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady NO

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer NO
Balt - Boller NO
Cle - Garcia NO

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr NO
Jax - Leftwich maybe

AFC west
KC - Green NO
SD - Rivers/Brees NO
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer NO

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger NO
Sea - Hasselback Maybe
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson NO
Car - Delhomme NO
NO - Brooks NO

NFC north
Min - Culpepper NO
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington NO
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell maybe
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

Couch Maybe
Flutie Yes

Yes 7
Maybe 4
No 23

that the most ridiculous thing i have seen today.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Tatonka
that the most ridiculous thing i have seen today.

In your opinion!:up::snicker:

[Mr. Cynical]

Forgot to post my list:

AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO/YES
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox YES
Cin - Palmer YES
Balt - Boller NO
Cle - Garcia YES

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr YES
Jax - Leftwich YES

AFC west
KC - Green YES
SD - Rivers/Brees NO/NO
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer YES

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger YES
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay Maybe (injury issue)

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson NO
Car - Delhomme YES
NO - Brooks YES

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington Maybe
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell YES
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

Yes - 21
Maybe - 2
No - 9

[Tatonka]

mr. c.. surprised by your "no" on brad johnson.

he is so underrated.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka
mr. c.. surprised by your "no" on brad johnson.

he is so underrated.

Good point. :peace:

I guess I never saw him play that much last year, and at 35 he is definitely on the downswing. But depending upon the contract, I might consider it. He could definitely be a caretaker QB.

[buffmaniac]

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
Forgot to post my list:

AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO/YES
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox YES
Cin - Palmer YES
Balt - Boller NO
Cle - Garcia YES

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr YES
Jax - Leftwich YES

AFC west
KC - Green YES
SD - Rivers/Brees NO/NO
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer YES

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger YES
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay Maybe (injury issue)

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson NO
Car - Delhomme YES
NO - Brooks YES

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington Maybe
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell YES
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

Yes - 21
Maybe - 2
No - 9

I stopped looking at your list when I got to Maddox. Maddox is better than Bledsoe? Give me a break

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by buffmaniac
I stopped looking at your list when I got to Maddox. Maddox is better than Bledsoe? Give me a break

Let's look at the original question of this thread:

"So how many QBs starting on other teams would you take before Bledsoe for this season?"

Now, in answering that question I am saying that I would rather have Maddox starting over Drew for *this season*. Why?

Maddox: $750,000
Drew: $4.3M

Can you honestly say Drew is 5-6 times better than Maddox at this point?

In addition:

A) Maddox is a disciple of MM/TC. He knows them, they know him. Both have had success with each other so there's no ramp up.

B) In each of his last 2 seasons Maddox has thrown more TDs than INTs. Can't say the same for Drew.

Do I think Maddox is the "answer"? Of course not. But straight up swap I'd take Maddox every time. We have JP as the future.

[pats-were-right]

Now, in answering that question I am saying that I would rather have Maddox starting over Drew for *this season*. Why?

Maddox: $750,000
Drew: $4.3M


Stick to your remaining arguments. As much as I dislike Bledsoe's game, Rick Mirer is probably pulling down $200k and I'd still choose Bledsoe even though he's not 21 times better than Mirer.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by pats-were-right


Stick to your remaining arguments. As much as I dislike Bledsoe's game, Rick Mirer is probably pulling down $200k and I'd still choose Bledsoe even though he's not 21 times better than Mirer.

Re-read my post. I listed additional reasons in addition to cost.

[bills_7]

Originally posted by Tatonka
that the most ridiculous thing i have seen today.

what so tell me what is wrong with those picks?


Originally posted by The Spaz
In your opinion!:up::snicker:

thanks buddy

T doesnt know what he is talkin about

[bills_7]

Originally posted by Tatonka
My take:
AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer YES
Balt - Boller YES
Cle - Garcia YES

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr YES
Jax - Leftwich YES

AFC west
KC - Green YES
SD - Rivers YES
Oak - Gannon NO
Den - Plummer NO

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger NO
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson YES
Car - Delhomme YES
NO - Brooks YES

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington YES
Chi - Grossman YES

NFC east
NY - Manning YES
Was - Brunnell YES
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

23 YES
8 NO


now clearly these r the worst picks on this thread....

[pats-were-right]

Mr. Cynical - that's why I said "stick to your other points" - the flawed one seemed to be the main one though.

Anyway, my list:

AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley YES/NO
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer NO (at this point - hasn't played a snap)
Balt - Boller YES
Cle - Garcia YES

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr NO
Jax - Leftwich YES

AFC west
KC - Green YES
SD - Rivers/Brees NO
Oak - Gannon NO (But Collins, yes)
Den - Plummer YES

NFC west
Arz - McCown NO
STL - Bulger YES
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay NO

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson YES
Car - Delhomme NO
NO - Brooks YES

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington NO
Chi - Grossman NO

NFC east
NY - Manning NO (but Warner, maybe)
Was - Brunnell YES
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO

[DraftBoy]

AFC east
Miami -Fiedler/Feeley NO/YES
Jets -Pennington YES
NE - Brady YES

AFC north
Pitt - Maddox NO
Cin - Palmer YES
Balt - Boller YES
Cle - Garcia NO

AFC south
Ind - Manning YES
Tenn - McNair YES
Hou - Carr YES
Jax - Leftwich YES

AFC west
KC - Green YES
SD - Rivers/Brees YES/NO
Oak - Gannon NO (But Collins, yes)
Den - Plummer NO

NFC west
Arz - McCown YES
STL - Bulger YES
Sea - Hasselback YES
SF - Rattay YES (only if injury is ok)

NFC south
Atl - Vick YES
TB - Johnson YES
Car - Delhomme YES
NO - Brooks YES

NFC north
Min - Culpepper YES
GB - Favre YES
Det - Harrington YES
Chi - Grossman YES

NFC east
NY - Manning NO
Was - Brunnell YES
Phil - McNabb YES
Dal - Carter NO


There is my list

[Novacane]

Originally posted by The_Philster



Bledsoedoesnowrongers? Sounds like you wanna make up something to ***** about. :cynic:


.


Talk about someone making things up. Who is the one that repeatedly accuses people of saying Kordell is a better QB than Bledsoe. I've challenged you over and over to find a post where someone says that. You never respond. If you're gonna keep making things up I will too :rolleyes:

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green



Talk about someone making things up. Who is the one that repeatedly accuses people of saying Kordell is a better QB than Bledsoe. I've challenged you over and over to find a post where someone says that. You never respond. If you're gonna keep making things up I will too :rolleyes:

:movie:

[Novacane]

Originally posted by DraftBoy


:movie:


:lol: It's true.......he makes that crap up and then rides in on his high horse being Mr judgemental.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by pats-were-right
Mr. Cynical - that's why I said "stick to your other points" - the flawed one seemed to be the main one though.

I don't see a cost comparison as a "flawed point". It's certainly not the only factor, but it definitely plays a major role. Tying up alot funds in one player takes away from using that money elsewhere and unless that one player is performing, it doesn't make sense. Obviously trying to create a literal price:performance ratio between players is not linear, but the theme behind the point I was trying to make is still valid.

As for your example of Mirer.... you need to stick to apples-to-apples comparisons. Mirer is not a starting QB and hasn't been a full starter since leaving Seattle in '96. At that point the cost comparison becomes far less accurate.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Talk about someone making things up. Who is the one that repeatedly accuses people of saying Kordell is a better QB than Bledsoe. I've challenged you over and over to find a post where someone says that. You never respond. If you're gonna keep making things up I will too :rolleyes:
Not making anything up. Have people talked like Drew couldn't succeed under Mularkey? Anyone who has must think Kordell is better...because Kordell sucked under Gilbride and played well his first year under Mularkey. Just a simple inferrence...not a bold-faced lie.

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
:lol: It's true.......he makes that crap up and then rides in on his high horse being Mr judgemental.

I can't be accused of making anything up if I have a point and am not going around calling people ridiculous names.