Our Draft shuffling.....

[Canadian'eh!]

OK.....

TD has done so much shuffling with picks and players since hearrived I thought I'd try to make sense of it. Mainly because sometimes I see this strange logic where Losman has cost us from next to nothing to a kings ransom.


It all starts with the Drew Bledsoe trade 2 years ago. While costing us nothing in that draft ('02). We essentially spent our 1st round pick the next year (around 15th I'm too lazy to check) to get him.

Next year comes around and we send Price to Atlanta (who we were almost surely to lose anyway via FA) for their 1st round pick which is roughly 23rd if i remember.

So now, Drew has cost us Peerless and about 8 spots in the 1st round. Of course we don't know what would have happened if we had not gotten drew and his cap number, but I would assume that we would have had our original 1st round pick and the 2nd one we got for PP if we had not made that trade. so either way Drew cost us the #15 pick.

Now we have a new 1st. we use it on McGahee in a surprise. Now we have 2 RB's with star potential. But McGahee needs a year to sit. so esentially we didn't get any benefits from our 1st last year.

This years draft rolls around. We use or 1st on Evans.... then we trade next years 1st, number yet to be determined of course, this years 2nd and 5th to get another 1st and take Losman (around 19th or so)

Now McGahee is supposedly ready to go and we all have high hopes that he and TH can both have good years. Thus giving us some trade bait to recoup a 1st rounder next year.

so to recap.

WE got:
Drew Bledsoe
Willis McGahee (atl 03 1st)
JP Losman (dal 04 1st)

We lost:
2003 1st (ours) - to NE
Peerless Price - to ATL
2005 1st (ours) - to DAL
2004 2nd (ours) - to DAL
2004 5th (ours)- to DAL

remember we still have no 1st for next year as of now.

to get one we will have to trade a star RB, and that's only if someone s willing to give us one for whichever RB we decide to trade. we may have to throw in another 2nd or 3rd to get it done. who knows.

Granted, to really look at it truthfully you have to look at each thing seperately. for instance. Drew cost us an '03 1st. we got another 03 1st for PP. and Loman (in return for using our 1st a year early) cost us our '04 2nd and 5th.

But it's more fun to connect the dots.

Drew is traded for a 1st that we get back for PP (who was leaving anyway), which became WM (who hasn't played). Then we got an extra 1st this year to pick Losman (costing us our 2nd and 5th). However, now that we will be able to see what WM is capable of, if all goes well we can trade one of our RB's to regain the 1st next year.

so Losman only cost us a 2nd and 5th. right? wrong.

He cost us a 2nd, 5th and a star RB. You see. somewhere along the line we had to make losses. we did lose our 1st for drew. we would have 2 when you count the fact that we lost PP. That's why it doesn't really work to connect the dots like some fans like to do to explain things.

so despite the big shuffle:
Drew cost us a 1st rounder.
We got a 1st rounder for PP.
Losman cost us a 2nd and 5th to pick our 1st a year early.
McGahee may enable us to get another 1st rounder by trading him or Henry after this season.

and that's the bottom line. I bet that was confusing.

[Goobylal]

The only thing I'd add is that without Bledsoe in 2002, Price most likely doesn't have nearly as good a year, and doesn't become one of the top-2 WR's in FA. So you could look at it that Bledsoe cost the Bills a few spots in the 2003 draft.

[Turf]

I think Drew and Losman etc cost us exactly what we gave up for them. The logic that we we didn't give up what we gave up is based initially on what we gave up to determine what we really gave up.
I give up. We gave up exactly what we gave up for them. No more no less. Ahh the offseason sucks..............except it's freakin gorgeous outside, that I like.

[TedMock]

I think the first rounder for PP was icing on the cake in that deal. Essentially, trading PP allowed us to afford Takeo Spikes and get our pick back. I think that was the master plan all along. I always looked at it as giving away PP for Spikes and the 23rd pick. We win. As for Bledsoe, that was a straight up trade for the 1st pick next year. Although, had Bledsoe not come, Price most likely doesn't have that big year. In that case, we still have Price, we don't have Bledsoe, we don't have Spikes, and who know's what last year's first rounder would've been. Anyway, you're right on with Losman costing us a 2nd and 5th, and we'll see what McGahee yields us.

[Kramer]

I sincerely doubt that we will trade McGahee. Spend a 1st round pick on Willis then trade him for a 1st round pick? Makes no sense at all!. If Willis is the real deal, then expect Travis to be the trade bait.

[BillsOwnAll]

Originally posted by Canadian'eh!
OK.....

TD has done so much shuffling with picks and players since hearrived I thought I'd try to make sense of it. Mainly because sometimes I see this strange logic where Losman has cost us from next to nothing to a kings ransom.


It all starts with the Drew Bledsoe trade 2 years ago. While costing us nothing in that draft ('02). We essentially spent our 1st round pick the next year (around 15th I'm too lazy to check) to get him.

Next year comes around and we send Price to Atlanta (who we were almost surely to lose anyway via FA) for their 1st round pick which is roughly 23rd if i remember.

So now, Drew has cost us Peerless and about 8 spots in the 1st round. Of course we don't know what would have happened if we had not gotten drew and his cap number, but I would assume that we would have had our original 1st round pick and the 2nd one we got for PP if we had not made that trade. so either way Drew cost us the #15 pick.

Now we have a new 1st. we use it on McGahee in a surprise. Now we have 2 RB's with star potential. But McGahee needs a year to sit. so esentially we didn't get any benefits from our 1st last year.

This years draft rolls around. We use or 1st on Evans.... then we trade next years 1st, number yet to be determined of course, this years 2nd and 5th to get another 1st and take Losman (around 19th or so)

Now McGahee is supposedly ready to go and we all have high hopes that he and TH can both have good years. Thus giving us some trade bait to recoup a 1st rounder next year.

so to recap.

WE got:
Drew Bledsoe
Willis McGahee (atl 03 1st)
JP Losman (dal 04 1st)

We lost:
2003 1st (ours) - to NE
Peerless Price - to ATL
2005 1st (ours) - to DAL
2004 2nd (ours) - to DAL
2004 5th (ours)- to DAL

remember we still have no 1st for next year as of now.

to get one we will have to trade a star RB, and that's only if someone s willing to give us one for whichever RB we decide to trade. we may have to throw in another 2nd or 3rd to get it done. who knows.

Granted, to really look at it truthfully you have to look at each thing seperately. for instance. Drew cost us an '03 1st. we got another 03 1st for PP. and Loman (in return for using our 1st a year early) cost us our '04 2nd and 5th.

But it's more fun to connect the dots.

Drew is traded for a 1st that we get back for PP (who was leaving anyway), which became WM (who hasn't played). Then we got an extra 1st this year to pick Losman (costing us our 2nd and 5th). However, now that we will be able to see what WM is capable of, if all goes well we can trade one of our RB's to regain the 1st next year.

so Losman only cost us a 2nd and 5th. right? wrong.

He cost us a 2nd, 5th and a star RB. You see. somewhere along the line we had to make losses. we did lose our 1st for drew. we would have 2 when you count the fact that we lost PP. That's why it doesn't really work to connect the dots like some fans like to do to explain things.

so despite the big shuffle:
Drew cost us a 1st rounder.
We got a 1st rounder for PP.
Losman cost us a 2nd and 5th to pick our 1st a year early.
McGahee may enable us to get another 1st rounder by trading him or Henry after this season.

and that's the bottom line. I bet that was confusing. Ok the real bottom line is all about haveing faith. This is clearly another case of overanalyzing things. Just sit down calm down
watch some hockey and wait for football EH?

[Canadian'eh!]

so we should not post at all then?

what would you like to talk about?

[Dozerdog]

Price was not an asset the Bills could retain- so getting a top pick was pure genius. Plus, We got a full year early out of that 2003 pick- That's worth a lot in the NFL.

Then factor in how weak the 2003 draft was-

Then factor in if McGahee was in the 2004 draf after a full season- he would have been a top 6 pick (Raiders, Cards or Lions) - he's that talented.


I know it's a lot of "ifs"- but the Bills got loaded on talent. Only the piss poor coaching held them back. Now that's been lifted as well.

[RedEyE]

"You have to give a little to get a little."

IMO, I have to evaluate each individual trade rather than wrapping them into one solid line of "connected dots".

You have to evaluate each individual, based on the talent available at the time of trade, then the assess talent level of the players the Bills would have been interested in during the loss pick of the draft.

In the grand scheme of things, I felt TD chose Bledsoe based on experience. TD gave up Price (with a gain) based on money (and Price's inability to work with the Bills). Picked up McGahee, based on talent level in the draft. Picked up Evans to replace Price and assist Drew. And pursued Losman in order to maintain focus on the future while keeping focus on the season that lies ahead.

I can't say that I agree with all of the moves, and with the exception of the McGahee pick, I think that all the moves were made with the utmost consideration, not to mention it was the best available option for the Bills during each time frame.

As for McGahee.....although he may prove fruitful this season and next, it never made sense to me why TD picked up a RB that couldn't contribute his first season. Seemed like a wasted pick to me ......again, that is until now.....knowing that we will need another pick next year.

BTW, I'll be really suprised if Henry or McGahee draw enough attention for a 1st round trade. I think that a 2nd rounder seems more feesible.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by RedEyE

I can't say that I agree with all of the moves, and with the exception of the McGahee pick, I think that all the moves were made with the utmost consideration, not to mention it was the best available option for the Bills during each time frame.

As for McGahee.....although he may prove fruitful this season and next, it never made sense to me why TD picked up a RB that couldn't contribute his first season. Seemed like a wasted pick to me ......again, that is until now.....knowing that we will need another pick next year.

There wasn't anyone left to draft in that spot........we got incredible value. If McGahee was off the board, I'll bet the Bills would have drafted Kelsay there.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
There wasn't anyone left to draft in that spot........we got incredible value. If McGahee was off the board, I'll bet the Bills would have drafted Kelsay there.

I agree, in theory. I'm just not sold on the guy until he puts up some #s. A first round RB should technically be ready to participate his first year.

I just see McGahee working out his kinks this season, and after it's all said and done, the #s won't be high enough to judge a high trade value for next season. Then again he may just bust out of the gates with fire and his eyes and the endzone beneath his feet. I do know one thing, if he blows out that knee again this season, I'll be seriously pissed.

[TigerJ]

That debate (on trading McGahee) has been raging on this and every other Bills message board for the last year, Kramer. It just won't go away. For what it's worth, I agree with you completely.

[Jan Reimers]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Price was not an asset the Bills could retain- so getting a top pick was pure genius. Plus, We got a full year early out of that 2003 pick- That's worth a lot in the NFL.


Originally posted by Dozerdog
There wasn't anyone left to draft in that spot........we got incredible value. If McGahee was off the board, I'll bet the Bills would have drafted Kelsay there.

Dozer has made the two most salient points here. TD got a 1st rounder for Price, who we were going to lose, anyway, and the best DE available - and a projected 1st rounder - in Kelsay.

That's pretty good drafting, and allows us to go into this season with a lot of weapons.

[Canadian'eh!]

My original post was not realy a judgement of the moves so much as looking at them for what they are. for all our shuffling, each move is an individual. I just was trying to disuade those we "we got JP for a 2nd round pick because we can trade a RB" arguements.

1 thing i don't like is the Kelsay arguement. Obviously he was not gogn to be taken at our spot. If it hadn't been WM it would NOT have been him. we would have gone for better value at some other position. Had he been worth that pick at all he would not have dropped to us in the 2nd. he was a high 2nd that slipped a bit. You can argue we got good value for him in the 2nd, but not that we would have taken him in the 1st, because he was not rated high enough for that pick.

[AndreReed83]

TD said that he wanted to take Kelsay in the 1st round and was the highest DE left on his draft board at the time of the Bills pick. He was enthralled with the fact that Kelsay was still available in the 2nd.

[Canadian'eh!]

TD says a lot of things

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Canadian'eh!
TD says a lot of things He has done a lot too. Too bad his biggest mistake (GW) outweighed the good he did for this team.

[Forward_Lateral]

The point nobody seems to see is that if we had kept Peerless, we wouldn't have Spikes, Milloy or possibly Posey on the team. I'd rather have a great Defense to build around and worry about upgrading the offense than vice versa. Look what happened 2 years ago with our great scoring machine of an offense, our d couldn't stop a girls softball team, and we finished 8-8.
There is no way in hell that Peerless Price is worth what he got from Atlanta, and if Buffalo gave that to him, we'd be alot worse off than we already are. End of story.