Since Coy Wire hit him.... [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Tatonka

06-24-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by I'M A BELIEVER
Since the day we drafted Coy I had a gut feeling about him being an all pro someday.......and that may not happen but I just have a feeling about it......I can see him being a John Lynch type guy...

me too.. and i dont see what is wrong with that.. he is one of my favorite bills.. sorry..

imho, it is better than a having ridiculously huge picture of some crybaby, overpaid baseball player in my sig.

but to each their own..

you dont have to read the god damn thread if it doesnt interest you.. tools.

ryjam282

06-24-2004, 01:04 PM

Not only an overpaid crybaby but one that doesn't even earn league minimum...He has played, what 50 games this year? That is about 35 times more then he has played in the last 4 years. Nice job Grif, way to earn the cash.

He's terrible, and by the way, your bragging about a guy that is hitting .260....Now, I know I didn't make it to the big leagues but I don't remember Rob Deer getting much recognition when he was hitting .260. Come talk to me when he is hitting over .300 and earning 1/2 his money. Griffey, the most overrated player in the bigs hands down.

EM Bills Fan 80

06-24-2004, 01:22 PM

There's a big difference in Griffey and Wire.

Griffey is Proven. Coy hasn't proven anything.

Griffey is a HOFer. Coy can only wish.

Griffey is in the top 10 all time at his position, Coy can once again only wish.

Sorry he's been injury prone of late, I'm sure he could of really helped it. Half the time he was trying to come to soon to try and help the team win.

About the average, he's a .293 career hitter. Sorry he's having a bad hitting season.

BTW, im on Griffey's jock because Im keeping his stats in my Sig? Other have done that on this board, and many people keep stats in the sig during Bills season, just because I made a comment you didn't like you had to point that out, right?

In any case im done arguing, my main point is this
You made a thread to point out somebody being inured by a hit. Now I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I think it's ignorant to make a thread about sombody being injured, just to give one of the players you like, or any player for that matter recognition. If it was Takeo Spikes who hit him or Lawyer Milloy, this thread would have never been made, but since its Coy Wire, the almighty Buffalo Bill, you had to point it out.

ryjam282

06-24-2004, 01:33 PM

I think he pointed it out because he likes Coy Wire as a player and wants him to be on the field cause he feels it can help his team win. I could be wrong though, but I doubt it.

As far as Griffey goes. The only reason he is even considered a Hall of Famer or even in the top 10 in his position is because of the homeruns. Hitting .293 will not get you in the Hall, hitting 500 homers will though. Griffey had the luxury of playing a positiong that throughout time was not a power hitting position, it was a speed position. You don't see him stealing any bases like Kenny Lofton or hitting for high average like some of these other centerfielders. He didn't do anything great at his position, he just hit some homers. But, I know I would take the guy hitting .320 and able to steal a few bases over him anyday. Not to mention that Griffey will also probably be in the top 10 in all time strikeouts per at bat as well.

I was not arguing, I think Griffey could have been great, but he should have stayed in Seattle with less distractions and I think he would have been better off. He was a much better player over there and could have had 500 homers about 4 years ago and could possibly be with Barry in the 600 club....Now that guy is amazing.

Tatonka

06-24-2004, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by EM Bills Fan 80
just because I made a comment you didn't like you had to point that out, right?

i made the comment because you said something obnoxious and antagonistic like "your on wires jock"

get over yourself.. this is a bills board.. there are fans of bills players here.. no one gives a **** about some suck ass crybaby baseball player that cant stay on the field... especially so much taht they want a huge picture of the loser taking up the whole screen.

you started the mud slinging.. so cry me a river.. like griffey does.

In any case im done arguing, my main point is this
You made a thread to point out somebody being inured by a hit. Now I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I think it's ignorant to make a thread about sombody being injured, just to give one of the players you like, or any player for that matter recognition. If it was Takeo Spikes who hit him or Lawyer Milloy, this thread would have never been made, but since its Coy Wire, the almighty Buffalo Bill, you had to point it out.

actually.. if it was wire, spikes, or milloy, i would have pointed it out.. i was reading a fantasy football thread and saw mention of james stewart.. and it dawned on me that coy popped him so hard that he injured him and he hasnt played a down since.. he is not permenantly hurt.. he is healthy now.. but without a team.. i wasnt poking fun at his injury.. i was just pointing out that wire can lay a lick.. plain and simple.

now when griffey gets hurt.. for the 10th time in a season.. that makes me laugh...

Originally posted by ryjam282
I think he pointed it out because he likes Coy Wire as a player and wants him to be on the field cause he feels it can help his team win. I could be wrong though, but I doubt it.

your not wrong.

B-DON

06-24-2004, 02:43 PM

griffey is hands down 1st ballot hofer even though i hate him, how many other guys can come back from a 4 year injury to have the season he is having, btw big mac is still better go A's

Tatonka

06-24-2004, 02:53 PM

baseball sucks my nuts.

how do you get hurt in baseball? tripping over 1st base?

:snicker:

B-DON

06-24-2004, 02:56 PM

same way you do in golf, doing nothing

ryjam282

06-24-2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by B-DON
griffey is hands down 1st ballot hofer even though i hate him, how many other guys can come back from a 4 year injury to have the season he is having, btw big mac is still better go A's

The type of season he is having? Can you please explain that one...He is hitting .260. What is he doing? Not stealing bases, not making assists in the outfield. Is it considered a good season cause he is actually suiting up?

Originally posted by Tatonka
baseball sucks my nuts.

how do you get hurt in baseball? tripping over 1st base?

:snicker:

Come on T, we know I played professionally, so let's not rip on it that much....It is easy to pull hammy's or groin's or get a sore arm, considering you play 162 games in 180 days. Your body does break down, that is why they take steroids cause there is no way there body can keep that weight on or keep the muscle on with that much wear and tear on there bodies...

Marvelous

06-24-2004, 04:31 PM

Coy Wire is on my top 5 of fav Bills.
So is Milloy.

White DB's are rare!!!

Mr. Cynical

06-24-2004, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
baseball sucks my nuts.

how do you get hurt in baseball? tripping over 1st base?

:snicker:

:rofl:

I could NOT have said that any better. :up:

If anyone wants to debate football vs. baseball with me (not just from a physical aspect...I mean the entire game vs. game comparison) I'm more than ready to win that one.

:box:

Dozerdog

06-24-2004, 06:18 PM

Hey T-

I don't see any difference between your admiration of Yzerman and his of Griffey.

No need to disrespect each other.

Dantheman1280

06-24-2004, 06:30 PM

Coy is the man and he will show everyone he is a great player!!

Tatonka

06-24-2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by ryjam282
Come on T, we know I played professionally, so let's not rip on it that much....It is easy to pull hammy's or groin's or get a sore arm, considering you play 162 games in 180 days. Your body does break down, that is why they take steroids cause there is no way there body can keep that weight on or keep the muscle on with that much wear and tear on there bodies...

point taken.. i wasnt trying to disrespect you.. just poke fun at the sport.

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Hey T-

I don't see any difference between your admiration of Yzerman and his of Griffey.

No need to disrespect each other.

my admiration doesnt include a 9ft sig pic.. but your right.. more to the point.. he insulted my admiration of coy wire, commenting that i like to "ride his jock", which is what got the whole thing started..

and everyone knows that yzerman is 10x the man of any baseball player in history anyways. :D

:snicker:

Disgustipatex

06-24-2004, 09:52 PM

Since Coy Wire hit whoever it was he hit, he's been a terrible player.

Oh, wait.

colin

06-25-2004, 03:07 AM

I don't know if Coy wire is that good though, even if he is a fan fav.

i'd like to see him turn into a good FS this year, but i just don't think he has what it takes to be a good DB. I just remember seeing him get burned so badly on so many plays, and overpersuing runs waaay too much. I see him as a poor man's adam archuleta, who i think is way too overrated anyhow.

Tatonka

06-25-2004, 06:48 AM

you mind just listing just a handfull of those plays he got burned on so regularly?

i think the fact that you guys talk about how he got burned so frequently is the only overexageration

the guy put up numbers that were comparable to lawyer milloys numbers last year.. and he did that as a rookie starting at a new position.

ryjam282

06-25-2004, 08:49 AM

I agree, he did a great job especially for someone who was learning a new position and at the NFL level. Sure, he may have missed a few plays but he was only getting better and by no means was he a liability.

Originally posted by Tatonka

point taken.. i wasnt trying to disrespect you.. just poke fun at the sport.

Thanks a lot. It actually left a bad taste in my mouth as well after getting released.

elltrain22

06-25-2004, 10:27 AM

Dude, I had forgotten all about that guy.

DraftBoy

06-25-2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Tatonka
you mind just listing just a handfull of those plays he got burned on so regularly?

i think the fact that you guys talk about how he got burned so frequently is the only overexageration

the guy put up numbers that were comparable to lawyer milloys numbers last year.. and he did that as a rookie starting at a new position.

Im not gonna sit here and go back and review the tapes of the last two years and try and find what plays he got burned on bc to be honest its not worth the time, bc it is an overexaggeration about how much he got burned because we rarely played a man-man coverage but more of a backed off zone coverage. Do I think he played that system well. Yea sure he did fine at SS, but do I think he did good or great? No. Also please dont compare Lawyer Milloy's numbers in obvious down year to Coy's Rookie year. Lawyer consistently gets over 110 tackles, and avg 2.3 INT's a year. Coy is yet to even get 110 tackles in his career, yet to make an interception, and yet to even force a fumble, but no Coy hits hard bc he put somebody out of the league so lets hand him the starting FS job. Hell if all you want is a big hitter at FS then why not play PP there, he's one of our hardest hitters for sure and Im sure you remeber him from his time at Va Tech. Look you challenge all the people that doubt him to prove to you that he cant do it. Well its been rather apparent that he has had trouble in coverage and whether its just that he cant do it (my opinion) or he doesnt understand the coverage he just has had problems. Im asking you to prove that he can do it, prove to me that he knows the coverages, prove to me that he has learned the "skill" of covering a slot receiver or that he knows his role when he's playing a cloud on a CB's back. If you can prove that then maybe I will believe he could be a solid FS, but I have serious doubts about it and I hope that im wrong.

EM Bills Fan 80

06-25-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by ryjam282
As far as Griffey goes. The only reason he is even considered a Hall of Famer or even in the top 10 in his position is because of the homeruns. Hitting .293 will not get you in the Hall, hitting 500 homers will though. Griffey had the luxury of playing a positiong that throughout time was not a power hitting position, it was a speed position. You don't see him stealing any bases like Kenny Lofton or hitting for high average like some of these other centerfielders. He didn't do anything great at his position, he just hit some homers. But, I know I would take the guy hitting .320 and able to steal a few bases over him anyday. Not to mention that Griffey will also probably be in the top 10 in all time strikeouts per at bat as well.

I'm not here to argue, just point some things out.

With regards to stealing bases He's averaged 15 a season over his career. Given that's not Kenny Lofton numbers or alot of CF's but than again alot of CF's bat at the top of the lineup in one of the 1st two slots. When you get into the position of Griffey at 3.4 or 5, it's your power hitters, who on alot of ball clubs are not asked to steal bases. like I said injuried have slown him down, but in his 4 best seasons as a pro, here were here stats:

1996: .303 - 49 HR - 140 RBI - 16 SB
1997: .304 - 56 HR - 147 RBI - 15 SB
1998: .284 - 56 HR - 146 RBI - 20 SB
1999: .285 - 48 HR - 134 RBI - 24 SB

also early in his career, with the exception of his rookie season he he hit for average, either at .300 or above from 1990-1994, also stealing anywhere from 10-18 bases in this time.

My point is based on seasons where stole 17,18, 20, 24. He was capable of stealing you some bases, but as a power hitter in the lineup in 3,4,5 not many managers will ask you to steal bases as often as they do a leadoff man like a Lofton or Pierre.

Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing with you or anything I just love talking baseball. I know it's starting to get off topic in the thread so Im sorry for that.

Tatonka

06-25-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by DraftBoy
Im asking you to prove that he can do it, prove to me that he knows the coverages, prove to me that he has learned the "skill" of covering a slot receiver or that he knows his role when he's playing a cloud on a CB's back. If you can prove that then maybe I will believe he could be a solid FS, but I have serious doubts about it and I hope that im wrong.

obviously i cant prove to you anything because he has never played the position before.. i BELIEVE he will do well..

and if you think that people, like myself, are making the assumption that he is a hard hitter because of one hit to james stewart.. then you didnt watch him play.

and it is a fair comparision to lawyer milloy in a down year.. why did milloy have a down year? because he was in a new system most likely.. well not only was wire in a new system but in a new position.. and he still had numbers that were VERY close to milloys.. and blew them out of the water when you compare the 4 million dollars milloy was making.

Originally posted by EM Bills Fan 80
I'm not here to argue, just point some things out.

With regards to stealing bases He's averaged 15 a season over his career. Given that's not Kenny Lofton numbers or alot of CF's but than again alot of CF's bat at the top of the lineup in one of the 1st two slots. When you get into the position of Griffey at 3.4 or 5, it's your power hitters, who on alot of ball clubs are not asked to steal bases. like I said injuried have slown him down, but in his 4 best seasons as a pro, here were here stats:

1996: .303 - 49 HR - 140 RBI - 16 SB
1997: .304 - 56 HR - 147 RBI - 15 SB
1998: .284 - 56 HR - 146 RBI - 20 SB
1999: .285 - 48 HR - 134 RBI - 24 SB

also early in his career, with the exception of his rookie season he he hit for average, either at .300 or above from 1990-1994, also stealing anywhere from 10-18 bases in this time.

My point is based on seasons where stole 17,18, 20, 24. He was capable of stealing you some bases, but as a power hitter in the lineup in 3,4,5 not many managers will ask you to steal bases as often as they do a leadoff man like a Lofton or Pierre.

Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing with you or anything I just love talking baseball. I know it's starting to get off topic in the thread so Im sorry for that.

no one cares about griffey or baseball.

DraftBoy

06-25-2004, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka

obviously i cant prove to you anything because he has never played the position before.. i BELIEVE he will do well..

and if you think that people, like myself, are making the assumption that he is a hard hitter because of one hit to james stewart.. then you didnt watch him play.

and it is a fair comparision to lawyer milloy in a down year.. why did milloy have a down year? because he was in a new system most likely.. well not only was wire in a new system but in a new position.. and he still had numbers that were VERY close to milloys.. and blew them out of the water when you compare the 4 million dollars milloy was making.

I can agree to disagree

Tatonka

06-25-2004, 12:05 PM

there is nothing to disagree on comparing milloy and wire at ss both in their first years..

DraftBoy

06-25-2004, 12:08 PM

Ill give you that point, but to begin to compare their careers is an obvious advantage to Milloy.

Tatonka

06-25-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by DraftBoy
Ill give you that point, but to begin to compare their careers is an obvious advantage to Milloy.

and i wouldnt dare compair milloy, a probowl caliber player to wire.. not at this point.. but simply that when they were both in a similar situation.. wire held his own with milloy... who even had a better front seve to work with...

in the end though.. wires potential is as much as he makes of it.. and he could be as good as a guy like milloy or lynch at ss if given the shot.. we wont know though for some time.

Mr. Cynical

06-25-2004, 05:56 PM

Baseball is still boring. :D

The game is 99% between the pitcher and the batter. It is so one-dimensional and very linear compared to football.

:box:

Sennsai

06-25-2004, 06:12 PM

Let the players have a fair chance in practice and the coaches will start the best player at FS... enough said on who should start at FS.

Sidenotes... Milloy hasn't had an INT since the 2001 season. He had 2 FF's this past season. He had 0 the year before. Worth the $$$$ to bring in? So far not..... sold is, worth the extra $$$$ no. :scratch:

Also.. I have several Bills games on tape and one including was Bills/Broncos in Wire's rookie season. Spotlight matchup by the NBC announcers had Wire on Shannon Sharpe(future HOF)... Rookie vs the Vet as they put it. Sharpe had 0 Receptions that day, ending a string of over 4 seasons of consecutive games with a reception... stat courtesy of Rototimes.com. Was Sharpe's blank that day all Wire? No, but the majority yes.

No prior coverage experience in college or H.S... I think Wire performed as well as he could have his rookie year... given time and learning the position, he SHOULD be a fine addition to the secondary. Name the last ROOKIE to start on defense Opening Day for the Bills prior to Wire starting? Nate Odomes and Shane Conlan in 1987..... Also, became first Bills DB with three sacks in a season since Lawrence Johnson in 1984.

The_Philster

06-25-2004, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
Baseball is still boring. :D

The game is 99% between the pitcher and the batter. It is so one-dimensional and very linear compared to football.

:box:
:scared: :help:

Tatonka

06-25-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Sennsai
Let the players have a fair chance in practice and the coaches will start the best player at FS... enough said on who should start at FS.

Sidenotes... Milloy hasn't had an INT since the 2001 season. He had 2 FF's this past season. He had 0 the year before. Worth the $$$$ to bring in? So far not..... sold is, worth the extra $$$$ no. :scratch:

Also.. I have several Bills games on tape and one including was Bills/Broncos in Wire's rookie season. Spotlight matchup by the NBC announcers had Wire on Shannon Sharpe(future HOF)... Rookie vs the Vet as they put it. Sharpe had 0 Receptions that day, ending a string of over 4 seasons of consecutive games with a reception... stat courtesy of Rototimes.com. Was Sharpe's blank that day all Wire? No, but the majority yes.

No prior coverage experience in college or H.S... I think Wire performed as well as he could have his rookie year... given time and learning the position, he SHOULD be a fine addition to the secondary. Name the last ROOKIE to start on defense Opening Day for the Bills prior to Wire starting? Nate Odomes and Shane Conlan in 1987..... Also, became first Bills DB with three sacks in a season since Lawrence Johnson in 1984.

well that is a good post.. :D

tonawandabacker

06-25-2004, 10:29 PM

nice pic of Griffey

hes not good

EM Bills Fan 80

06-25-2004, 10:57 PM

excellent statement!

Tatonka

06-25-2004, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by EM Bills Fan 80
excellent statement!

i agree.

EM Bills Fan 80

06-25-2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka

i agree.

Great! :clap:

Mr. Cynical

06-26-2004, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by The_Philster

:scared: :help:

Is that a challenge? Go for it man. I'm soooo ready. :D

Football is a *far* more complex and physically demanding game. It has a *lot* more variables and options, e.g., given the nature of the game format 11 vs. 11 instead of 9 vs. 1 (4 max), the fact the defense in football can score as well, etc.

Let's get it on. :box:

The_Philster

06-26-2004, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical
Is that a challenge? Go for it man. I'm soooo ready. :D

Football is a *far* more complex and physically demanding game. It has a *lot* more variables and options, e.g., given the nature of the game format 11 vs. 11 instead of 9 vs. 1 (4 max), the fact the defense in football can score as well, etc.

Let's get it on. :box:
No...I was scared because I agree with you. :laughter:

Kramer

06-26-2004, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Cynical

:rofl:

I could NOT have said that any better. :up:

If anyone wants to debate football vs. baseball with me (not just from a physical aspect...I mean the entire game vs. game comparison) I'm more than ready to win that one.

:box: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: Baseball sucks! I thought this was a football thread?? Let's get away from America's favorite has-been (baseball) and back on topic of the real sport in this country, football! Baseball is like watching paint dry, only less action.