Izzell Reese or Coy Wire at FS

[juice]

If the competition at FS is between Reese and Wire, Who should start and who would give us more Interceptions needed at the position,which has been lacking that type of momentum changing "Big Play".

Reese was playing well at the position when given the chance last season while starting... It is a natural position for him and he has the Range and experience to make correct reads to be effective.

Wire is highly aggressive and can produce big plays in run defense and Blitzing situatons... Over agression can be a liability at FS and leave the Defense open to Big Plays but if used correctly can give the Bills a John Lynch type player at FS.

Wire seems to be more of a SS type player but Milloy will be more effective with that type of play.

Or Can the position be filled by both players, Reese that is a better cover defender and Wire who is a more instinctive tackler and Blitzer?

[TigerJ]

The assumption is that because as a rookie, two years ago, Wire was making the transition from LB and was not very good in coverage, that this will still be the case. I'd prefer to hold off on that judgement. He was getting better toward the end of his rookie season, and had a whole season to watch from the sidelines, study film, practice and work with a more experienced Lawyer Milloy. If nothing else Wire seems to be a highly motivated and intelligent player, and I would not put it past him to have learned how to cover.

I think it's pretty clear Buffalo is not going to get a lot of interceptions out of Reese.

[Tatonka]

yeah.. reese has shown over his career to be a real "interception machine"

7 career INTs in 6 years.. and 3 of those came in one season 4 years ago..

none in the last two years..

reese will never get any better..

wire can.

wire is the better choice and will be the starter..

reese is ... well.. lets just say.. you cant turn chicken **** into chicken salad.

[G. Host]

I think Wire should get his shot but the Bills should try to lock him up longer if they are going to invest the money in training him to be a free safety rather than his more natural position of strong safety.

Also he will end up competing with Vincent sooner or later since that is part of the plan when they brought Vincent to the Bills.

[Jan Reimers]

It would appear that Wire is a better, more competitive athlete with a much bigger upside than Reese. He is far more likely to give us some big plays, but perhaps a little more likely to get toasted occasionally as well.

I'd take Wire. He won't fail for lack of effort.

[justasportsfan]

If I were the coaches I'd let Wire cover Moulds in some drills just to practice his coverage skills and let Drew (or the other 2 ) through to him just so he can practice catching. Wire could be a liability covering the likes of McMichael or a caliber of Gonzo if he doesn't improve.

[DraftBoy]

Wire over Reese, no competition there.

[juice]

Reese might be the best cover Safety on the roster which gives him the upper hand as the starter, at least in passing situations.

Clements might be able to return to his "Big Play" form with a FS who can back him up when he Gambles to make the Pick.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Reese might be the best cover Safety on the roster which gives him the upper hand as the starter, at least in passing situations.

Clements might be able to return to his "Big Play" form with a FS who can back him up when he Gambles to make the Pick.

is it all of reese's INTs that lead you to believe he can cover?

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
is it all of reese's INTs that lead you to believe he can cover?

No, It was watching his play last season and him winning the starting position before his injury... from what I have seen of Wire I would say that he is the worst cover guy of all of the DB's on the team.

Not to say Wire hasn't improved, but I would say he has the most to prove in reading and recognition.

What has Wire done to show that he can be effective in pass coverage and that he is deserving of the starting FS spot? We already have a starting SS.

[Tatonka]

reese won the starting FS spot because we dont have another FS on the roster..

yeah.. he really had to work his tail off for that..

prioleau is an undersized SS.. not a FS.. never was.. he just filled the role for a year.

wire is the best athlete of them all.. and has the ability to make big plays..

you ask me what has wire shown to change that he cant cover?

i ask you what has wire done to show you that he cant cover in the first place.. so he got burn a handful of times as a rookie.. big deal.. all rookies do.. especially ones that are in a new position.. he also held shanon sharp to 0 catches for zero yards..

he will be fine.. and reese will be lucky to just be a back up.

[juice]

Wire has the ability to make big plays as a Blitzer and tackler.. why should he be annointed to starting FS when he played the SS position more like a LB and only excelled in run support?

Wire hasn't proven he can read and recognize a run play from Playaction, he tends to play with a run first mentallity which leads to him getting burned deep... exposing his inability to recover.

Even in run defense he is over aggressive and overruns plays rendering him ineffective as the last line of defense.. This type of play leads to alot of tackles and very few pass plays defended well.

LB first mentallity will not make Wire our starting FS, maybe a SS on first and second downs but he will prove to be a liability in pass "D".

Has he done something in the offseason to Warrant him being our last line of pass defense when that is the weak point of his game as a DB?

I'd rather have Reese playing the center field, at least he has shown the range and has the experience. But Wire is worth taking a look at, as of right now I'd put him no higher than #2 at FS.

[Tatonka]

wire hasnt shown you any range at FS because you have not seen him there.. you have no idea what range he has... you also dont know what he has learned about coverage and recognition.. he was a rookie playing a new position.. so of coarse he was going to revert to his LB mentality at first.. but he was only beat a handful of times and got better as the year went on.. including shutting out a future hall of famer in Shanon Sharpe... but of coarse you dont want to see or admit any of that.

reese has done NOTHING.. not one pick.. not one fumble.. not one big hit.. NOTHING.. he is a scrub.. and he is a league vet.. who is NOT going to get any better.. there is a reason that denver only had him start at FS for ONE year.

[juice]

Reese has shown the ability to stay in the League at one position.. Even a second string player has a role on any team.

Wire may have a role on this "D" but I Question if that role will be as the last line of pass defense.. It's just not the stronge point of his game, UNLESS he has grown by leaps and bounds in coverage ability he seems to be more of a run support guy than a coverage first guy.

Wire should concentrate on the SS position, It better fits his natural abilities.

[G. Host]

Concentrating on strong safety is a 'Sulking' Sullivan type of move - Wire has too much spirit to do that. In my opinion the Bills should have never signed Malloy - he does not do enough to earn the dollars he gets. The Bills should have stuck with Wire and built the team by draft not overpriced, over the hill veterans.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Reese has shown the ability to stay in the League at one position.. Even a second string player has a role on any team.

Wire may have a role on this "D" but I Question if that role will be as the last line of pass defense.. It's just not the stronge point of his game, UNLESS he has grown by leaps and bounds in coverage ability he seems to be more of a run support guy than a coverage first guy.

Wire should concentrate on the SS position, It better fits his natural abilities.

again.. you are just completely off here.. and it is starting to show..

reese has not made it at one position.. you are absolutely dead wrong.. he has played CB, SS, and FS.. all three.. and has not excelled at any of them.. he keeps getting moved around because he doesnt do any of them well... he is lucky to even still be playing.

he is nothing more than a back up.. this range you talk about.. it got him nothing.. all that range has got him NO PICKS, NO BIG HITS, NO FUMBLES - FORCED OR RECOVERED. i dont know how to say in plain english any simpler.

[Tatonka]

it really doesnt matter.. reese will be on the bench or on the street come game time. and wire will be in the line up.

mark my words.

[juice]

At least we can say Reese belongs in the defensive backfield as a ROLE player or whatever.. Ronnie Lott also played different positions throughout his carreer..But the one thing remained constant, his ability to play the pass first, reading and recognition.

Which position has Wire shown he can play well? He has the instincts of a LB, that doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing DB, it just illustrates that LB, FS and SS are all very different positions that require a whole different set of skills, Mentally as well as Physically.

With the type of game Wire plays, the transition to SS will prove to be an easier transition from playing LB in college. Maybe Wire can handle the Mental aspect of the switch, but I haven't seen anything out of his play, in games or camp, to suggest that to be the case.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Reese has shown the ability to stay in the League at one position..


Originally posted by juice
At least we can say Reese belongs in the defensive backfield as a ROLE player or whatever.. Ronnie Lott also played different positions throughout his carreer..But the one thing remained constant, his ability to play the pass first, reading and recognition.

ok.. now this is just getting ridiculous.. you are completely contradicting yourself.. first reese has shown some great ability to play in the league at one position..

oops.. no he hasnt.. your inacrate info that you were spouting was busted and proven to be completely wrong.. in other words.. a lie..

then you back track and say "well at least he can play DB.."

NO CRAP.. did you think they were going to switch him to LB or DE? :rofl:

all this read and recognition crap has got him what?? again.. you wont answer me.. 7 picks in 6 years? with 3 coming in one year? WOW... WOOOHOOOO.. we have found our answer at FS.. what has he done for the bills? NOTHING.. all the read and recognition crap doesnt mean squat because he DOES NOT PRODUCE!!!..

wire took some lumps as a rookie.. all rookies do.. especially ones that start from day one in a completely new position..

you have NO CLUE where his read and regonition skills are at this point.. NONE.. but you can keep using those words to make it seem like you know what your talking about..

just like reese playing one position his whole career.. when in fact he has been the total opposite.. a guy who has played for 3 teams in 6 years and been bounced around from position to position because he wasnt good enough to stick at any of them.

[juice]

I'm not a Football Historian or a Stat Fanatic, So I'm not claiming to know every little detail in the carreer of Reese, But I can say I have Studied and PLAYED the positions in the Defensive Backfield for more than 20 years.. I Know the difference between a DB and a LB.

My ability to evaluate talent at a position comes from years of playing DB and RB.. It doesn't make me an expert at judging potential, But I do understand that it is Performance not Potential that makes a Player in this League.

Until Coy Wire actually shows he can COVER somebody on the field he wont get a free pass as the starter.

Didn't I see that Rookie TE Burn him earlier in OTA's.. If he cant cover a Rookie TE he cant even call himself a LB much less a DB.

I picked up terms like "Read and Recognition" and "Performance not Potential" from numerous position coaches I've had, Good coaches who knew their Craft, Turned me into a student of the game, So if you dont recognize some of these terms It's probably because you have never actually played the position, I Have, But still its just my Observations.

So dont go off the deep end like you are some type of an expert, we're both getting paid the same for our opinion, But I have less respect for yours than many other Posters, Because I dont think your Knowledge goes much further than the Stats you are able to drag up from some Website.

So watch what you say when you proclaim someone to be completly Wrong and remember neither of us are getting paid and neither will be correct in all of our assessments.

[Tatonka]

juice.. your posts suck... your posts have always sucked... most people just laugh at your posts.. because your posts rarely show any insite.. use big words to show "knowledge" of the game, and are mostly inaccurate...

i could care less what you think of mine.. i know that i know my ****.. i know that your posts dont prove **** and i think your 20 years of "playing and coaching DBs" is a joke.. that is probably about as acurate as Reese being a long time NFL vet at one position or ruben brown being the best offensive lineman to ever play a down in the history of the universe...

you are speaking about a player that you know nothing about, in reese.. and you are speaking of him as if he has done something.. but you have yet to say what it is that reese has done in his entire career..

do you konw why you cant do that? because you cant.. because reese HASNT DONE ANYTHING IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER...

:rolleyes:

it doesnt really matter though.. because, thankfully, the coaches wont take your inaccurate opinion into account when they decide coy wire is the starter.

[Tatonka]

elevate your mind on that.

:snicker:

ps.. your posts still suck.

insult the post not the poster.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Tatonka
juice.. your posts suck... your posts have always sucked... most people just laugh at your posts.. because your posts rarely show any insite.. use big words to show "knowledge" of the game, and are mostly inaccurate...

i could care less what you think of mine.. i know that i know my ****.. i know that your posts dont prove **** and i think your 20 years of "playing and coaching DBs" is a joke.. that is probably about as acurate as Reese being a long time NFL vet at one position or ruben brown being the best offensive lineman to ever play a down in the history of the universe...

you are speaking about a player that you know nothing about, in reese.. and you are speaking of him as if he has done something.. but you have yet to say what it is that reese has done in his entire career..

do you konw why you cant do that? because you cant.. because reese HASNT DONE ANYTHING IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER...

:rolleyes:

it doesnt really matter though.. because, thankfully, the coaches wont take your inaccurate opinion into account when they decide coy wire is the starter.

:bf1:

[Tatonka]

oh.. and i dont have to use stats when referring to reese.. because he barely has any over his whole career.

:snicker:

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
juice.. your posts suck... your posts have always sucked... most people just laugh at your posts.. because your posts rarely show any insite.. use big words to show "knowledge" of the game, and are mostly inaccurate...

i could care less what you think of mine.. i know that i know my ****.. i know that your posts dont prove **** and i think your 20 years of "playing and coaching DBs" is a joke.. that is probably about as acurate as Reese being a long time NFL vet at one position or ruben brown being the best offensive lineman to ever play a down in the history of the universe...

you are speaking about a player that you know nothing about, in reese.. and you are speaking of him as if he has done something.. but you have yet to say what it is that reese has done in his entire career..

do you konw why you cant do that? because you cant.. because reese HASNT DONE ANYTHING IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER...

:rolleyes:

it doesnt really matter though.. because, thankfully, the coaches wont take your inaccurate opinion into account when they decide coy wire is the starter.

Is it accurate to say that Reese has more stats than Wire?

Your Posts are even "Wordier" than your buddy Weilers...

By the way how is the carreer as sports anal-lysts going? I haven't heard a "Word" about the show lately.

Can you take as good as you give, without loosing your composure.

BTW that wasn't a personal attack, I just question the amount of knowledge, in your posts, of the actual game and the way it is played. Stats do not make you an expert nor do they make YOUR OPINION correct.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by juice
Your Posts are even "Wordier" than your buddy Weilers...

You've never seen a Wys post if you actually think that. :shakeno:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by The_Philster
You've never seen a Wys post if you actually think that. :shakeno:

he is just looking for a way to goat me.. but it is kind of like the retarted kid in high school making fun of the shop class kid, in my opinion.

juice.. based on per year starts.. no.. reese does not have better stats than wire. if that is your question.. but you know that.

you still havent answered teh question.. what has Reese done for the bills that has shown his "read and react" ability?

he hasnt read and reacted to any INTS or Hits.. he has read or reacted to any forced fumbles or fumble recoveries.. he hasnt read or reacted to anything other than being on the field and yelling "BOO" as the opposing teams wrs ate us alive.. see the kansas city game for example..

if we would have had a guy back there that could have killed that midget dante hall.. maybe we would have stood a chance.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
By the way how is the carreer as sports anal-lysts going? I haven't heard a "Word" about the show lately.

Can you take as good as you give, without loosing your composure.



the show is on break through the offseason until training camp starts.. at least i had enough sac to do a couple shows... i would love to see you get on there and elevate your mind with your bass ackwards spanglish you jibber on these boards.

that was real cute though, Corky.. anal-lysts.. you think of that on your own?

and what is with the quotations around "Word"... more spanglish references that i dont understand.

juice.. i cant wait to see your new movie!!!

http://www2.foxsearchlight.com/napoleondynamite/epk/downloads/photoGallery/6.jpg